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Atiim
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
10196
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Posted - 2014.07.05 19:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Missed this last time through the thread.
Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason?
Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure.
Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK.
My fit is a Saga-II with a NOS Module. You need the Fuel Injector because it allows you to pick up enough speed to detonate the REs, as opposed to simply "dinging" the HAV.
As for why I use the Saga-II, it has a built in Shield Hardener to make it harder to kill from the back. Also, Armored LAVs move far too slow to kill a good tanker.
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.)
You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'?
Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever.
So you've made a list of all the times multiple HAV Pilots have died to JLAVs, and then another of all the times multiple HAV Pilots have died to conventional AV Weapons? May I have a look at this data?
Do I need to remind you that anecdotal evidence is not valid in balance discussions?
Long Live The Anime Empire
-HAND
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4th Lieutenant Tiberius
7
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Posted - 2014.07.05 19:34:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Mauren NOON wrote:So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........
Considering the second shot kills me running away is generally a good idea.
The one and only Lieutenant Tiberius
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Last of DusT.
General Tso's Alliance
2433
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Posted - 2014.07.05 19:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
4th Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:Mauren NOON wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Mauren NOON wrote:So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........ Considering the second shot kills me running away is generally a good idea.
That moment when you forget your still on an alt.
Tanker/Logi
0 The number of 7ucks given
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lithkul devant
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
269
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Posted - 2014.07.06 03:43:00 -
[64] - Quote
Seymour KrelbornX wrote:Harpyja wrote:lithkul devant wrote:Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially.
For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all. Murder taxis were also a "legitimate tactic." But infantry cried and cried that it was killing them unfairly so they had CCP "fix" vehicle-infantry collision damage, AKA a nerf. Either give me back my old Charybdis or remove JLAVs. the real problem with murder taxis was everyone had a free lav they could use with no sp or isk investment, now at least buying the lav puts an isk investment on it and the remotes for JLAV have an sp investment. the other major issue was how low the level of speed for kill on impact was, they fixed that, but you can still murder taxi... I do it all the time in my JLAV on my way to blow your tank up....and in order to blow up your tank I also must travel at a high rate of velocity or hit the tanks sweetspot. the bottom line here is that if you remove the ability to stick remotes on your own lav you kill other types of creative gameplay as well... JLAVs are only one way to use them and not even the most effective. the community has already told you tankers over and over again all the ways to counter this, this includes other tankers...
I honestly see little to no problem with bringing back the specialty LAV's, since the damage from vehicle impact has been taken down significantly. Though, I would want a few changes to be put upon them, for the added armor/shield protection, each needs to have reduced max speed and/or acceleration, along with them being more geared for a supporting role as has been emphasized in many other threads. |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
Psychotic Alliance
1427
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Posted - 2014.07.06 07:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
danie braz wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Atiim wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).
- 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
- 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
- 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
- 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK
I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.
So basically your complaints are about something non-existent?  Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only
+ switching to starter fit after setting them.
I am starting to doubt that there can be a limit to the amount of remotes that can stick to a vehicle so I would just make remotes unable to stick to friendly vehicles.
Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
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Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
339
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Posted - 2014.07.06 13:24:00 -
[66] - Quote
danie braz wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Atiim wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).
- 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
- 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
- 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
- 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK
I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.
So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only
+ switching to starter fit after setting them.
I am starting to doubt that there can be a limit to the amount of remotes that can stick to a vehicle so I would just make remotes unable to stick to friendly vehicles.[/quote]
so I cant put them on my own lav to kill a red that hacks it? no thanks! |
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