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I-Shayz-I I-----I 3653	Posted - 2014.06.11 06:06:00 - [31] - Quote Marked for index 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3027	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:16:00 - [32] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-) Not sure if it falls under the movement category but have you guys looked adding movement / animations for getting in and out of vehicles? Not just the infamous LAV teleport but dismounts from HAVs and DS as well. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖve discussed. ItGÇÖs obviously not just a cosmetic change but also a gameplay one i.e. lavs would have to stop to let people get in them, vehicles would have to be entered from specific positions, you could be shot whilst GÇÿout of controlGÇÖ of your character during a transition etc. Those are all things that need to be considered. ItGÇÖs also a fair chunk of work. Third person animations, first person animations, interaction logic, remodeling vehicle entry points, modeling vehicle interiors etc. ItGÇÖs a fair bit of work that could go in to, for example, animation systems for the drones in Salvage. So at this point itGÇÖs an interesting discussion to have but not a high priority feature.

Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 503	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:49:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-) Not sure if it falls under the movement category but have you guys looked adding movement / animations for getting in and out of vehicles? Not just the infamous LAV teleport but dismounts from HAVs and DS as well. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖve discussed. ItGÇÖs obviously not just a cosmetic change but also a gameplay one i.e. lavs would have to stop to let people get in them, vehicles would have to be entered from specific positions, you could be shot whilst GÇÿout of controlGÇÖ of your character during a transition etc. Those are all things that need to be considered. ItGÇÖs also a fair chunk of work. Third person animations, first person animations, interaction logic, remodeling vehicle entry points, modeling vehicle interiors etc. ItGÇÖs a fair bit of work that could go in to, for example, animation systems for the drones in Salvage. So at this point itGÇÖs an interesting discussion to have but not a high priority feature. It would be a good balancing feature for higher weight classes of suits. A light suit could hop right into the vehicle, with a basically non-existent animation, while a sentinel would have a comparably long animation that allows other players to shoot them. Also, there would be need for speed-dismount during driving, to allow people to jump out of the vehicle and take a bit of damage. And if you do animations, mounting definitely needs to work even with moving vehicles. Nothing is more awesome than having a buddy pick you up while you are running from someone. Passengers should have overall far easier mounting/dismounting than drivers. It would make Legion feel more authentic, as well as fix the balance issue of drive-by HMGs and make vehicle gameplay simply more "awesome" in feel, as long as you don't botch the job by making everything too static. I'd wager that it might be more beneficial than you think. Then again, having animations for a basic gameplay element is likely more important than such an advanced thing.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6038	Posted - 2014.06.11 09:19:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-) Not sure if it falls under the movement category but have you guys looked adding movement / animations for getting in and out of vehicles? Not just the infamous LAV teleport but dismounts from HAVs and DS as well. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖve discussed. ItGÇÖs obviously not just a cosmetic change but also a gameplay one i.e. lavs would have to stop to let people get in them, vehicles would have to be entered from specific positions, you could be shot whilst GÇÿout of controlGÇÖ of your character during a transition etc. Those are all things that need to be considered. ItGÇÖs also a fair chunk of work. Third person animations, first person animations, interaction logic, remodeling vehicle entry points, modeling vehicle interiors etc. ItGÇÖs a fair bit of work that could go in to, for example, animation systems for the drones in Salvage. So at this point itGÇÖs an interesting discussion to have but not a high priority feature. Should be. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1112	Posted - 2014.06.11 13:17:00 - [35] - Quote Nice video, Aeon. That's pretty much why i'm thinking of with the mount and dismount animations. If the only animation they worked on was the LAV one that would be pretty handy and prevent the heavies from having an extra couple thousand eHP as demonstrated in the video. @ CCP Wolfman...could a moderated position be including the LAV animation fix in Legion and treat the HAV and DS as lower priority 'Nice to haves"? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 896	Posted - 2014.06.11 17:31:00 - [36] - Quote Your Absolut End wrote: They should keep in mind that diferent suits will be able to move different. A heavy shouldnt be able to move like a scout through terrain. Movement in games is definately important, love the whole movement design in titanfall :) Titanfall is definitely fun to play, and the movement is pretty great as a pilot. Even though it can feel contrived/ slightly floaty. somewhat disconnected to the environment at times. I think the great thing about the procedural animation system that Wolfire is working on is that it started out with a really simple yet elegant approach. Then the developer put solid foundation in place. Then they (well, really he, since the studio is basically one guy) was able to continue to build on that to do things like wall running, hanging on ledges, roll down hills, equip and fight with different weapons etc. And also account for usually complex animation/ object interaction problems fairly easily. What happens when a character runs straight at a wall full speed? What happens when the character leaps right at a wall when running full speed? And the animations totally outclass what you see Titanfall. The pilot eject sequences are kind of goofy in comparison. Like Wile E Coyote running off a cliff before he realizes that gravity is about to reassert itself. The cool thing about implementing some procedural techniques is that it allows you have every character interact with every object and terrain in game without needing to program every instance and animate every sequence from scratch. Since project legion will still feature human mercenaries, there will be a need to do some mo-cap and some traditional animation in-betweens. For the sake of fidelity/ heightened realism. But if CCP is able to put a decent character movement framework/ foundation in place that would go a long ways toward making development efficient and enable a smaller studio to add bells and whistles over time.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2888	Posted - 2014.06.11 17:57:00 - [37] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-) Obviously we want you to fix the basic movement first. That's a given. But we can't really discuss how to unless we are talking coding and stuffz, and that's boring. There are a few people here who might disagree with you on that I'd like to see those people, and no, devs don't count Present and correct, considering Im studying Computer Science (with a healthy number of computer game modules) so the more code the better. As for the basics a simple thing we could do with is a slide, not like locomotion based slide, but if something is meant to be too steep for you to up. Give a slide animation! Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 311	Posted - 2014.06.11 17:59:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-) Not sure if it falls under the movement category but have you guys looked adding movement / animations for getting in and out of vehicles? Not just the infamous LAV teleport but dismounts from HAVs and DS as well. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖve discussed. ItGÇÖs obviously not just a cosmetic change but also a gameplay one i.e. lavs would have to stop to let people get in them, vehicles would have to be entered from specific positions, you could be shot whilst GÇÿout of controlGÇÖ of your character during a transition etc. Those are all things that need to be considered. ItGÇÖs also a fair chunk of work. Third person animations, first person animations, interaction logic, remodeling vehicle entry points, modeling vehicle interiors etc. ItGÇÖs a fair bit of work that could go in to, for example, animation systems for the drones in Salvage. So at this point itGÇÖs an interesting discussion to have but not a high priority feature. I'm interested if you planning to do something with traction wheels - like LAV on sand act less predictable than on asphalt.
Grimmiers 588	Posted - 2014.06.11 19:09:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-) Maybe after you make moving around terrain smoother you can make it so speed changes based on the incline. Going up and down a hill should take up more stamina and make you slower.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3038	Posted - 2014.06.12 02:20:00 - [40] - Quote Some good points and hilarious videos there! I had a thought of something that could be done with a minimum of work that may help alleviate the problems somewhat. It would be pretty easy to change the entry rules for the LAV (and any other vehicle) so they are placed in specific positions i.e. doors and rear turret. It doesn't solve all issues but may be an improvement. Thoughts?


Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8761	Posted - 2014.06.12 03:03:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Some good points and hilarious videos there! I had a thought of something that could be done with a minimum of work that may help alleviate the problems somewhat. It would be pretty easy to change the entry rules for the LAV (and any other vehicle) so they are placed in specific positions i.e. doors and rear turret. It doesn't solve all issues but may be an improvement. Thoughts? I would suggest taking a page from the Halo series. In Halo, your character is forced to undergo a boarding animation if you wanted to get into a vehicle. The same was true for getting out of it. This is that players won't just simply pop out of their vehicle, shoot you in the face with a Brute Shot, and then instantly disappear into the vehicle to drive away. Unfortunately Dust doesn't have this mechanic in place at all and as a result we have heavies driving around popping out of LAVs, instantly melting you with the HMG, and then disappearing into the LAV to escape. Also, in Halo, where you sat in the vehicle is heavily dependent on where you are boarding from. If you board from the right side of a Warthog, you ended up on the passenger seat. If you boarded a Scorpion Tank from the front, you end up sitting on the turret. We should have the same principle in Legion. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3039	Posted - 2014.06.12 03:20:00 - [42] - Quote I understand that, what I'm suggesting here is more of a stop gap measure because there is quite a lot of other work that will take priority over entry/exit animations should we want to do them.

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2586	Posted - 2014.06.12 05:17:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I understand that, what I'm suggesting here is more of a stop gap measure because there is quite a lot of other work that will take priority over entry/exit animations should we want to do them. And we get that, and we are saying do that **** first. We're just letting you know that we like to see it. Is that so bad? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3044	Posted - 2014.06.12 05:24:00 - [44] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: I understand that, what I'm suggesting here is more of a stop gap measure because there is quite a lot of other work that will take priority over entry/exit animations should we want to do them. And we get that, and we are saying do that **** first. We're just letting you know that we like to see it. Is that so bad? No it's not bad I just want to get your opinion on the other suggestion and whether or or not you think it would help or if it would be a waste of time and we should just leave it as is until we are able to make a more significant change?

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2586	Posted - 2014.06.12 05:38:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: No it's not bad I just want to get your opinion on the other suggestion and whether or or not you think it would help or if it would be a waste of time and we should just leave it as is until we are able to make a more significant change? Godin Thekiller wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is to start simple and build up. First smoother movement over undulating terrain. Second, help characters 'vault' over fence like objects. This is somethingwe can probably calculate based on the jump height so a heavy would get less help than a scout. We'll have to wait and see once we start to work on it. I hope the vault exceeds jumps. Stuff like grabbing ledges and pulling yourself up as a scout, while heavies can only use vault to get other smaller obstacles that they can't outright jump over. In both cases, you wouldn't be able to actually scale the terrain with just a jump, though the scout would have no trouble with jumping over an obstacle that a heavy needs to vault over. Being able to parkour would help the scout be a scout though Does this answer your question? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3044	Posted - 2014.06.12 06:29:00 - [46] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: No it's not bad I just want to get your opinion on the other suggestion and whether or or not you think it would help or if it would be a waste of time and we should just leave it as is until we are able to make a more significant change? Godin Thekiller wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is to start simple and build up. First smoother movement over undulating terrain. Second, help characters 'vault' over fence like objects. This is somethingwe can probably calculate based on the jump height so a heavy would get less help than a scout. We'll have to wait and see once we start to work on it. I hope the vault exceeds jumps. Stuff like grabbing ledges and pulling yourself up as a scout, while heavies can only use vault to get other smaller obstacles that they can't outright jump over. In both cases, you wouldn't be able to actually scale the terrain with just a jump, though the scout would have no trouble with jumping over an obstacle that a heavy needs to vault over. Being able to parkour would help the scout be a scout though Does this answer your question? No I was asking about retaining the current vehicle entry system (teleport) but changing vehicle entry points to specific locations on the vehicle rather than it just being anywhere on the vehicle

bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 264	Posted - 2014.06.12 07:53:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is to start simple and build up. First smoother movement over undulating terrain. Second, help characters 'vault' over fence like objects. This is somethingwe can probably calculate based on the jump height so a heavy would get less help than a scout. We'll have to wait and see once we start to work on it. Eventually including considerations for the weapon one is carrying would seem appropriate as well. Such as a heavy carrying a light weapon should move (and turn) faster than when carrying a heavy weapon and a scout with knives should move (slightly) faster than with a light weapon. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1 Appia Vibbia for CPM1
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 264	Posted - 2014.06.12 08:09:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-) Not sure if it falls under the movement category but have you guys looked adding movement / animations for getting in and out of vehicles? Not just the infamous LAV teleport but dismounts from HAVs and DS as well. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖve discussed. ItGÇÖs obviously not just a cosmetic change but also a gameplay one i.e. lavs would have to stop to let people get in them, vehicles would have to be entered from specific positions, you could be shot whilst GÇÿout of controlGÇÖ of your character during a transition etc. Those are all things that need to be considered. ItGÇÖs also a fair chunk of work. Third person animations, first person animations, interaction logic, remodeling vehicle entry points, modeling vehicle interiors etc. ItGÇÖs a fair bit of work that could go in to, for example, animation systems for the drones in Salvage. So at this point itGÇÖs an interesting discussion to have but not a high priority feature. This should be a higher priority - at least the basics. Maybe simplified animations and/or delays at first and at a later time adding a more enhanced version? Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1 Appia Vibbia for CPM1
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 264	Posted - 2014.06.12 08:10:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Some good points and hilarious videos there! I had a thought of something that could be done with a minimum of work that may help alleviate the problems somewhat. It would be pretty easy to change the entry rules for the LAV (and any other vehicle) so they are placed in specific positions i.e. doors and rear turret. It doesn't solve all issues but may be an improvement. Thoughts? Anything is better than nothing. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1 Appia Vibbia for CPM1
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 264	Posted - 2014.06.12 08:24:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: No I was asking about retaining the current vehicle entry system (teleport) but changing vehicle entry points to specific locations on the vehicle rather than it just being anywhere on the vehicle Adding a driver side entry and a passenger side entry would be good. And if it takes less work to do, it should be prioritized. I also think including a slight delay to the teleport would be acceptable until you could fit proper animations on the to do list. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1 Appia Vibbia for CPM1

Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 505	Posted - 2014.06.12 09:38:00 - [51] - Quote I love how the Dust boards almost never actually answer the devs directly, and instead just post random semi-insults. Restricting driver entry to one side would be more annoying than useful. Just make a hack-like progress bar when you enter a vehicle, which requires you to hold down the boarding button. It's longer for heavier suits. This directly counters the driveby HMG issue and is functionally similar to an actual animation, meaning that it can be considered a placeholder for later additions to the syste,.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8764	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:13:00 - [52] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: I love how the Dust boards almost never actually answer the devs directly, and instead just post random semi-insults. Restricting driver entry to one side would be more annoying than useful. Just make a hack-like progress bar when you enter a vehicle, which requires you to hold down the boarding button. It's longer for heavier suits. This directly counters the driveby HMG issue and is functionally similar to an actual animation, meaning that it can be considered a placeholder for later additions to the syste,. No, it won't be annoying. It's practical. Halo has proven that multiple times and no one complained about the restrictions to vehicle entry. Besides, it makes absolutely no sense to be able to hop into the driver seat when you're just standing by the front bumper or appear in the driver seat first when you're boarding from the passenger side. Such a restriction serves two practical proposes. It makes the game look more realistic in terms of movement and it also makes the game balanced in terms of dealing with the annoying habit that some heavies in LAVs have been doing in DUST so far. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kincate DUST University Ivy League 71	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:31:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is to start simple and build up. First smoother movement over undulating terrain. Second, help characters 'vault' over fence like objects. This is somethingwe can probably calculate based on the jump height so a heavy would get less help than a scout. We'll have to wait and see once we start to work on it. So if you do this can you get rid of bunny hopping? The ability to propel yourself off a roof great, vault over objects fantastic, slide, go prone, take cover, these are all good things. Jumping abitrarily in the air in a lame attempt to aviod fire.... lame. 1st Legionhare
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8764	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:21:00 - [54] - Quote Kincate wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is to start simple and build up. First smoother movement over undulating terrain. Second, help characters 'vault' over fence like objects. This is somethingwe can probably calculate based on the jump height so a heavy would get less help than a scout. We'll have to wait and see once we start to work on it. So if you do this can you get rid of bunny hopping? The ability to propel yourself off a roof great, vault over objects fantastic, slide, go prone, take cover, these are all good things. Jumping abitrarily in the air in a lame attempt to aviod fire.... lame. Bunny hopping is no problem at all as long as stamina continues to exist. On top of that, stamina in DUST depletes faster as you consecutively jump. This prevents players from constantly bunny hopping. Even on Amarr scout, the stamina still drains at a relatively similar rate when hopping like all other suits. You might get an extra jump or two but after that you opened yourself up to be Swiss cheese to a plasma rifle. Better to just sprint away than hop. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6045	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:57:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Some good points and hilarious videos there! I had a thought of something that could be done with a minimum of work that may help alleviate the problems somewhat. It would be pretty easy to change the entry rules for the LAV (and any other vehicle) so they are placed in specific positions i.e. doors and rear turret. It doesn't solve all issues but may be an improvement. Thoughts? Sure, go for it. Just letting you know, though, it doesn't stop Heavies from using LAVs are a means of circumventing their mobility. Just makes a little harder for them to get back in the vehicle after they've killed you. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Grimmiers 589	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:55:00 - [56] - Quote Any chance of use being able to see our feet in legion? It really helps with character movement when you can see where you're walking.
Spectre-M The Generals 514	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:11:00 - [57] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Needs more Pssssssssshhhh This.
Kincate DUST University Ivy League 71	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:17:00 - [58] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Kincate wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is to start simple and build up. First smoother movement over undulating terrain. Second, help characters 'vault' over fence like objects. This is somethingwe can probably calculate based on the jump height so a heavy would get less help than a scout. We'll have to wait and see once we start to work on it. So if you do this can you get rid of bunny hopping? The ability to propel yourself off a roof great, vault over objects fantastic, slide, go prone, take cover, these are all good things. Jumping abitrarily in the air in a lame attempt to aviod fire.... lame. Bunny hopping is no problem at all as long as stamina continues to exist. On top of that, stamina in DUST depletes faster as you consecutively jump. This prevents players from constantly bunny hopping. Even on Amarr scout, the stamina still drains at a relatively similar rate when hopping like all other suits. You might get an extra jump or two but after that you opened yourself up to be Swiss cheese to a plasma rifle. Better to just sprint away than hop. It is a goofy and outdate game mechanic there are better ways to handle movement than bunny hopping. Get rid of it not because it is game breaking but because it is cartoonish. 1st Legionhare
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8764	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:34:00 - [59] - Quote @kincate Jumping is only lame when bunny hopping. But when it comes to jumping off cliffs or structures, we still need it. These are super suits after all. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2693	Posted - 2014.06.12 17:38:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: No I was asking about retaining the current vehicle entry system (teleport) but changing vehicle entry points to specific locations on the vehicle rather than it just being anywhere on the vehicle That would help. Specifically for one, that entering from the passenger side merely puts you in the passenger seat. This reduces your jumping in and out ability, and also makes it easy for people to jump in your passenger seat intentionally, rather than accidentally taking the driver seat. But vehicle entry/exit animations absolutely needs to be a thing in Legion. You can make it relatively quick for the purposes of not offering too much time to shoot people while doing it, but it needs to be there. And the type of vehicle should have a lot to do with it it. Getting in a tank needs to involve actually opening a hatch. (Do current tanks even have hatches?) I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate



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