DUST Search - Character Movement

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-)

Not sure if it falls under the movement category but have you guys looked adding movement / animations for getting in and out of vehicles? Not just the infamous LAV teleport but dismounts from HAVs and DS as well.

ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖve discussed.

ItGÇÖs obviously not just a cosmetic change but also a gameplay one i.e. lavs would have to stop to let people get in them, vehicles would have to be entered from specific positions, you could be shot whilst GÇÿout of controlGÇÖ of your character during a transition etc. Those are all things that need to be considered.

ItGÇÖs also a fair chunk of work. Third person animations, first person animations, interaction logic, remodeling vehicle entry points, modeling vehicle interiors etc. ItGÇÖs a fair bit of work that could go in to, for example, animation systems for the drones in Salvage. So at this point itGÇÖs an interesting discussion to have but not a high priority feature.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 493	Posted - 2014.06.09 12:03:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: yeah, we've definitely got some improvements to do in that area. It's still too janky and I also think we need to help players get over geometry like fences even if they can't... quite... reach! Have you tried Crysis 3? The multiplayer has extremely fluid movement. The game never, ever, stops you at random obstacles. Navigation is completely effortless. You really should take some clues from that, even if you likely don't want to have similar speeds for players. (Which I personally consider a shame)
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 499	Posted - 2014.06.10 09:44:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is to start simple and build up. First smoother movement over undulating terrain. Second, help characters 'vault' over fence like objects. This is somethingwe can probably calculate based on the jump height so a heavy would get less help than a scout. We'll have to wait and see once we start to work on it. I hope the vault exceeds jumps. Stuff like grabbing ledges and pulling yourself up as a scout, while heavies can only use vault to get other smaller obstacles that they can't outright jump over. In both cases, you wouldn't be able to actually scale the terrain with just a jump, though the scout would have no trouble with jumping over an obstacle that a heavy needs to vault over.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 499	Posted - 2014.06.10 11:26:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: This could even bring in a whole assortment of modules and equipment. Grappling hook anyone? I personally prefer jetpacks. High-powered ones that increase your scan profile and stealthy ones that have less power. And myofibrills that also increase jump height. That module should increase all muscle-related activities. The new engine and mouse controls should allow scouts to be much faster without breaking the game.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 500	Posted - 2014.06.10 14:23:00 - [4] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is to start simple and build up. First smoother movement over undulating terrain. Second, help characters 'vault' over fence like objects. This is somethingwe can probably calculate based on the jump height so a heavy would get less help than a scout. We'll have to wait and see once we start to work on it. I hope the vault exceeds jumps. Stuff like grabbing ledges and pulling yourself up as a scout, while heavies can only use vault to get other smaller obstacles that they can't outright jump over. In both cases, you wouldn't be able to actually scale the terrain with just a jump, though the scout would have no trouble with jumping over an obstacle that a heavy needs to vault over. Being able to parkour would help the scout be a scout though Wall running and jumping make it happen!! And and and sliding down the side of a building with a nova knife!!! AAAh Momentum-based speed gain like Titanfall? You could recycle Brink's idea. And then you allow all frames to fit all weapons. Only heavies can walk while wielding and shooting heavy weapons and can't be run over by LAVs and other small vehicles (Instead, it's the vehicle that takes some damage). You could do so much by adding intensive agility mechanics, to really differentiate the weight classes and make them feel entirely different. It would make the gameplay of the weight classes so different that you'd have to re-learn the game for each role. Which fits right into the mentality of a learning cliff.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 503	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:49:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should be able to walk smoothly over rocks before we start running on walls :-) Not sure if it falls under the movement category but have you guys looked adding movement / animations for getting in and out of vehicles? Not just the infamous LAV teleport but dismounts from HAVs and DS as well. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖve discussed. ItGÇÖs obviously not just a cosmetic change but also a gameplay one i.e. lavs would have to stop to let people get in them, vehicles would have to be entered from specific positions, you could be shot whilst GÇÿout of controlGÇÖ of your character during a transition etc. Those are all things that need to be considered. ItGÇÖs also a fair chunk of work. Third person animations, first person animations, interaction logic, remodeling vehicle entry points, modeling vehicle interiors etc. ItGÇÖs a fair bit of work that could go in to, for example, animation systems for the drones in Salvage. So at this point itGÇÖs an interesting discussion to have but not a high priority feature. It would be a good balancing feature for higher weight classes of suits. A light suit could hop right into the vehicle, with a basically non-existent animation, while a sentinel would have a comparably long animation that allows other players to shoot them. Also, there would be need for speed-dismount during driving, to allow people to jump out of the vehicle and take a bit of damage. And if you do animations, mounting definitely needs to work even with moving vehicles. Nothing is more awesome than having a buddy pick you up while you are running from someone. Passengers should have overall far easier mounting/dismounting than drivers. It would make Legion feel more authentic, as well as fix the balance issue of drive-by HMGs and make vehicle gameplay simply more "awesome" in feel, as long as you don't botch the job by making everything too static. I'd wager that it might be more beneficial than you think. Then again, having animations for a basic gameplay element is likely more important than such an advanced thing.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 505	Posted - 2014.06.12 09:38:00 - [6] - Quote I love how the Dust boards almost never actually answer the devs directly, and instead just post random semi-insults. Restricting driver entry to one side would be more annoying than useful. Just make a hack-like progress bar when you enter a vehicle, which requires you to hold down the boarding button. It's longer for heavier suits. This directly counters the driveby HMG issue and is functionally similar to an actual animation, meaning that it can be considered a placeholder for later additions to the syste,.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 506	Posted - 2014.06.12 19:14:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: No, it won't be annoying. It's practical. Halo has proven that multiple times and no one complained about the restrictions to vehicle entry. Besides, it makes absolutely no sense to be able to hop into the driver seat when you're just standing by the front bumper or appear in the driver seat first when you're boarding from the passenger side. Such a restriction serves two practical proposes. It makes the game look more realistic in terms of movement and it also makes the game balanced in terms of dealing with the annoying habit that some heavies in LAVs have been doing in DUST so far. I'm currently playing Borderlands 2. There was more than one time-critical situation where I accidentally hopped into the gunner seat because I didn't look at the car correctly. So no, there is no guarantee for such a system being good. Not to mention that this would require lag to the changing of seat positions - Otherwise it would just be an obnoxious hindrance that requires you to shift positions to drive sometimes. And really, you can't compare this to Halo. IIRC Halo has invulnerable vehicles and they definitely don't cost you ingame money. Ever wondered what happens if a swarmer is locking your LAV and you are trying to save it, but accidentally hop into the passenger seat?
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 506	Posted - 2014.06.12 20:49:00 - [8] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Seeing as though the vehicle models are god awful in Borderlands, no surprise there. Borderlands 2 is actually improved, even if it's only moderately not-**** now.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 507	Posted - 2014.06.14 21:54:00 - [9] - Quote Bunny hopping is only an issue for console shooters and in games where it actually increases your speed due to engine fuckups. When mouse is the default control scheme, bunny hopping will be pointless because your jumping trajectory is very predictable. Combat diving and fast sidestrafing, however...
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 507	Posted - 2014.06.15 08:29:00 - [10] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Please not as fluid as uncharted, just no. Why the hell would you take any cues from Uncharted, aside from the storylines and locales of the first two games? The gameplay is an atrocity based on "we need more snipers to make it more frustrating!" and movement animations can get obnoxious. CCP Wolfman wrote: One point that has come up a few times here is bunny hopping. I see some of you guys feel it is an issue whilst others do not. As you know we limit it currently using stamina cost for jumping and an increased cost per jump within a window of x. Do you think we need to go further? I'd say you should do less. The stamina mechanics really lower the pace of gameplay - Which is fine for the console version, due to the dual-analog setup, but bad for the PC. As I already said, no one will bunny hop anyway, aside from early game jumps out of impatience. (In fact, I'd wager that the short hops are more useful during a gun fight than proper jumps) I feel it will greatly increase the tactical possibilities if people can properly maneuver around obstacles unter duress. A similar thing happened in Crysis, where the second game had energy drain on sprint, while the third didn't, which allowed the third to be fun as balls because you actually had options during a fight and could run away when necessary. Note that the energy bar in that game served more functions than just sprinting - Dust would be more similar if Scanners and other devices ran off the stamina bar. If you actually thought about that possibility... Don't. In fact, I'd ask you to reconsider many of the mechanics in the game. Like the fact that reloads can be cancelled, meaning that reloading is a no-brainer thing, (Reload whenever possible - If an enemy pops up, just cancel) or if stamina is really necessary. Personally, I'd prefer the "reloading drains your magazine" system, as it really fits the "hardcore" mentality of the EVE universe. Or at least make some guns do that. Or, hell, even the damage profiles. They don't make sense on infantry, because the time to kill is too low (and will always be too low, unless you give us Quake-like TTK or something), player counts are very high (as opposed to, for example, tanks, where I totally approve of damage profiles) and there are no active modules to allow this to add any tactical advantage. (Again, tanks have it) If we had the ability to actually get out of a hot zone when we realize that the enemy has lasers against our shield tank, it might be a different story, even if only Scouts and Minmatar Assaults would be viable for a retreat. (Even then: You'll never find a squad entirely consisting of a single race/damage type, so you'll ALWAYS run into the damage type that kills you most efficiently) Basically, the ability to jump many obstacles in a short amount of time could increase the moment-to-moment choices that a player can make. There are multiple places in Dust where structures have alternate entries that require jumping - But even scouts need to pause on them before they can move on, which is insanely silly. Also, stamina is the most blatantly immersion breaking feature of the game. Humans are naturally geared towards endurance and those are supposedly clones full of hardware and drugs to make them superhuman. Normally I don't care much about how realistic things are, but this is just stupid because you explicitly contradict your game mechanics with lore.

Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.06.16 10:21:00 - [11] - Quote Kincate wrote: I was in early beta, bunny hoping was one among many problems. Frankly right now no one is saying it is a balance issue, it is just both stupid looking and a wholly outdated mechanic to have. If you are worring about low obsticles take the time and develop obsticle interaction, vaulting over something looks better than the bunny hops. If you arent going to do it because it is time consuming that is something by itself, but if you want immersion you need mechanics which allow you to interact with your enviornment. How the **** is the ability to jump an outdated mechanic? It's a vital aspect of scout gameplay to be able to scale terrain by jumping over it. Also, stupid-looking? Seriously? There are many stupid looking things in Dust and jumping around is not one of them. In fact, it looks awesome to see someone scale heights and distances with long jumps. And jumping into cover is completely valid, though it should have its own animation to make it look more dynamic.