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Sticky:[DISCUSSION] Project Legion Menu Discussion

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 197	Posted - 2014.05.25 02:46:00 - [61] - Quote -What were the things you liked? Systems Operation menus are straight-forward and easy to read. Editing my Dropsuit/Vehicles feels good. In-battle menus for calling OMS were slow, but well-enough organized. -What were you biggest frustrations? Slow load times and often crashing when accessing contacts. Sluggish in-battle menu response. Marketplace does not flow well in some places; Please do something like organizing weapons into their damage types. -What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome. Inability to organize contacts. Lack of smart fittings (having things understocked/overstocked upon salvaging/altering a fitting). Unable to organized fittings well and access them quickly (esp. in battle). Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. What are you expectations around this? Easy to navigate Advanced search options(with categories like price range, faction, etc.) Ideas In the character creation menus, please add a recruitment video for each faction (similar to those on the Playstation Home during the CreoDron LAV event) and also either videos or text that relates to each faction's tech Implement in-battle menus into the arm hologram panel-thingy instead of overlaying another screen Allow for closer zoom in deployment menu somehow (owned objectives or Drones allow for a better zoom or something?) I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10938	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:46:00 - [62] - Quote One impression I do get from new players is that the chat system, activating voice chat for a channel, accepting squad invvites, etc are all not very intuitive. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.05.25 11:02:00 - [63] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: One impression I do get from new players is that the chat system, activating voice chat for a channel, accepting squad invvites, etc are all not very intuitive. Hence my Comms 101 email to each new starter. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Lilith Serenity Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 8	Posted - 2014.05.26 07:25:00 - [64] - Quote Like most of the current UI but the fitting section needs improvement. Instead of a full lists of equipment or weapons when you pick a slot, instead its like the market where you then get a list of types like nanohives, remote explosives, etc. would make fitting dropuit loadouts easier and faster. Ex: Light Weapon slot > Assualt Rifles > Duvolle Assualt Rifle High slot > Damage Modifiers > Complex Light Damage Modifier
Night 5talker 514 Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 273	Posted - 2014.05.26 08:33:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: Hey guys, I am CCP Ankou, and as the blue tag under my name shows, I am one of the guys working on Project Legion in Shanghai. IGÇÖm currently in charge of User Experience, and my goal is to ensure you have a smooth experience playing the game! So, I have been super excited to see the discussion about HUD started by our dear CCP MC Peanut. We are definitively trying to take into account all your ideas and feedbacks! I was wondering if we could have a similar discussion about the Menus: especially the Market and Fitting Screens. First, I would like your feedbacks on your experience with DUST Menus. -What were the things you liked? -What were you biggest frustrations? -What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome. Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. -What are you expectations around this? Do not hesitate to throw your craziest ideas and references. This is brainstorming time here not GÇ£omg we will not have time to implement thisGÇ¥ time. Waiting to hear from you my dear gamers. CCP Ankou My expectations for the player market are for it to be like EVE. That market works and people are used to it. With Legion being on PC that would be an extremely logical way of laying out the market imo. What I have found most annoying is restocking. Approaching 40 mil SP's now and I have 5 proto suits all fitted for differing situations. If I lose say 3 or 4 suits after restocking 2 I receive a message when restocking the 3rd saying "You can only make a certain number of market orders every minute." This I don't mind, what I do mind is it then restocks maybe 3 of the modules on the suit leaving me to then manually restock each item on the suit which is annoying to say the least #1stworldproblems. There is a similar issue with regards to the menu when restocking a suit with an aurum module or an aurum suit with isk modules... there is no option to only restock the ISK related items, Aurum related items or both. Right now if I only wish to restock the ISK modules or suits I have to do this manually which again is a major 1st world problem Hope this helps Edit: also the immense lag when scrolling through fits and the lack of fitting sections/folders e.g all my AV fits in a section and all my commando fits in another or sections we can name ourselves based on our fittings and which fits we want to place in them etc. Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3486	Posted - 2014.05.26 11:49:00 - [66] - Quote Customized Chat Channel lists Chat channel management can be an issue in both DUST and EVE. In DUST many of us are consistently hitting the cap on how many Chat Channels we can have active. There have also been several bugs throughout DUST 514's history which has caused the game to crash more often if we have a lot of chat channels. In EVE I donGÇÖt think there is the same limitation on the number of chat channels you can have, but having too many will fill up your screen with all the tabs. I propose having lists of chat channels that you can quickly switch between, that allow you to categorize your channels. The list would act as a set of bookmarks, so only the chat channels in your active list would be open, but when you switch lists all those channels are closed and all the channels in the list you switch to are opened. For password protected channels, once you get in the first time an access key should be saved to allow your list to open the channel again without manually entering the password every time. (Getting kicked from the channel should erase this key.) Then you can have a list for Diplomatic channels (if you are a director involved in PC), a list for squad finding channels, a list for role specific channels (Condor Squad, Tanks R Us, Heavys Only, etc.), a list of Faction Warfare channels, etc. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3486	Posted - 2014.05.26 12:15:00 - [67] - Quote Ah.... CCP Ankou... you are supposed to drop in an lay a witty comment on us every day or two to let us know you are still listening. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs 507	Posted - 2014.05.26 12:39:00 - [68] - Quote One thing that it-¦s terrible right now is the dynamics between skill-item-market. 1 - I decided to try out the Cloaking Field yesterday, went to skill, bought and trained the skill. Great! 2 - Bought 20 Minmatar Scout mk.0 No sub-menu, had to browse trough a lot of suits to get where i wanted. 3 - Started equipping my nova knife, sensor dampener, and... wait, what slot should i equip the cloak? 4 - Checked skill description again to see if there was any indication of where should i equip so i could browse. Nothing. 5 - After browsing trough ALL NON-CATEGORIZED itens in mid, high, and low, finally found it on the equip slot. Problem: Lack of integration/information between Item-What unlocks-Where i can find it-Categorization Solution: Menu and expand/retract Sub-menu Weapons - Grenades - Heavy Weapons - Light Weapons - - Assault Rifles - - - AR 1 - - - AR 2 - - - "Named" AR - - - AR3 - - Combat RIfles - - - CR 1 - - - CR 2 - - etc.. - Sidearm Same with suits This way i can get a clear mental image of groups, and start thinking about the skills that interfere with that group. [Again, the damn 1-3-5 skill mentality shows on the items as we only have Standard - Advanced - Prototype. Metalevel now!] When looking at certain skills, i see what module it interacts with and with a right click, i can choose "View Market Details" to go straight for the market to buy it Active Scanner Operation Description: Skill at using active scanners. 5% Bonus to scanning [paramenter] per level (Since "Unlocks access to standard active scanner at lvl.1; advanced at lvl.3; prototype at lvl.5." it-¦s a FLAW in Dust 514, will say it as many times as needed. If you guys want SP sinks, Get N [Paramenter] skills and be done with it (Range - Reloading Time - Precision - Amount - etc.. ) Requirements: B+ºlah +ºbah b+ºah Modules: Active Scanners (When i right click it it opens the market at the proposed category so i can buy the damn thing) I know consoles have limitatitions, but ceratin things would make our lives a lot easier to interact with the game, and even understand it-¦s "Concept"
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2142	Posted - 2014.05.26 15:10:00 - [69] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Customized Chat Channel lists Chat channel management can be an issue in both DUST and EVE. In DUST many of us are consistently hitting the cap on how many Chat Channels we can have active. There have also been several bugs throughout DUST 514's history which has caused the game to crash more often if we have a lot of chat channels. In EVE I donGÇÖt think there is the same limitation on the number of chat channels you can have, but having too many will fill up your screen with all the tabs. I propose having lists of chat channels that you can quickly switch between, that allow you to categorize your channels. The list would act as a set of bookmarks, so only the chat channels in your active list would be open, but when you switch lists all those channels are closed and all the channels in the list you switch to are opened. For password protected channels, once you get in the first time an access key should be saved to allow your list to open the channel again without manually entering the password every time. (Getting kicked from the channel should erase this key.) Then you can have a list for Diplomatic channels (if you are a director involved in PC), a list for squad finding channels, a list for role specific channels (Condor Squad, Tanks R Us, Heavys Only, etc.), a list of Faction Warfare channels, etc. A a member of Corp and Alliance leadership, a long time simmer in Diplo waters, avid tester of many roles, and sociable player, this idea gets my +1, if the forums structure allowed for it I'd get my EVE character over here to +1 it as well. There may not be client locks/crashes up in the sky with so many chats but this would still be highly useful. Thanks go to Fox for proposing this idea 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Veka Kari The Phoenix Federation Caps and Mercs 41	Posted - 2014.05.26 19:03:00 - [70] - Quote Quote: What were the things you liked? Nothing, the menu's were conviluted in a lot of areas, and being that it was on a console making multi focal menus possible would have been very difficult at best without being broken. So a complete redesign is needed. Quote: What were your biggest frustrations? Single focus menus without the ability to look for example, in my inventory to check if I already owned something, or messages to see what PC I should join. Quote: What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome. Be able to continously see who was talking at the current moment in the chat pane while I was working on my gear. I realise there could have been ways of making it work, however I understand with the limitations of working on a console instead of a PC. An emulated mouse out of battle would have been nice though! Quote: What are you expectations around this? A complete copy with improvements from what EVE online has in legion. Vote me for CPM1, A Conduit for change

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8709	Posted - 2014.05.27 00:35:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: First, I would like your feedbacks on your experience with DUST Menus. -What were the things you liked? -What were you biggest frustrations? -What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome. Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. -What are you expectations around this? - I like the circular fitting window since it reminds me of Eve Online. - Lack of information such as no updated stats after fittings and telling apart an anti-shield from an anti-armor weapon. - Eve Online has a better setup in organizing the market. That is what's clearly missing in Dust and should be included in Legion. - I expect to be able to customize the menus however I like in Legion just like how you can do it in Eve Online. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Top Men. 434	Posted - 2014.05.27 00:47:00 - [72] - Quote Just about every one of the posts here bring up an important issue with the menus. For me something I would add is the issue of the way items are categorized. Items need to be organized and grouped according to what it is. Currently there is just a giant list to sort through trying to find the item I want in my Assets. That is just in the fitting screen. In the marketplace its also bad. There is so much space being taken up that is not necessary. Weapons and modules both are currently just listed. Eventually this will become a huge list when more types are added. It all needs to be categorized so it is easier to find what you want
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Top Men. 434	Posted - 2014.05.27 00:52:00 - [73] - Quote Another issue is that when I am fitting things I get the urge to crosscheck some stats or double check how many slots a suit has. Currently to do that its hard to do this, especially if I dont own the item. We have to leave the fitting screen and go to the market place, find the item see the info, then go all the way back. It would be helpful if some sort of screen or tool was implemented that would allow us to reference other items quickly without having to leave the fitting screen

CCP Ankou C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2014.05.27 07:27:00 - [74] - Quote Hey guys, ItGÇÖs great to see all your replies. Sorry I was pretty busy those last days and did not reply but be sure I always keep an eye on the thread. I like how you mention interconnectivity between the menus, it is definitively something I would like to improve. We are working on giving better feedbacks for things like missing skills, CPU/PG requirements, etc. And also make it easier to compare items. Generally we are on track to address your biggest complaints ItGÇÖs really fun to see some of you proposing layouts for different menus. ItGÇÖs the first time in my career I have other people trying to do my job for me @Kevall: the 1st test I made for the fitting screen a few weeks back was actually similar to yours in the idea. But now I feel it still needs improvement to better integrate with the market. I take note you guys want more info about the Fittings. As you can guess this screen will go through an overall redesign to make it both cooler (somebody said Iron Man?) and clearer. As a side note, several of you mentioned the menus were slow, took too long time to load. This is a technical problem outside of my scope but we definitively want to make things faster. One thing interesting is that some of you mentioned a lack of tutorials. What are the aspects of the game you would like to see a tutorial about? For Chat & Squad we want to make things more in line with what exists in other PC games and shooters. Those elements should feel natural for all gamers out there and answer the requests I have seen in this thread. For the Starmap too there are definitively huge improvements coming! This is a specific feature that will deserve its own thread in the futureGÇª We are quite confident it will improve the sense of belonging to New Eden and the link with Eve. Just keep the thread going I am all hears. CCP Ankou.

killian178 S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2014.05.27 07:38:00 - [75] - Quote For the love of all that is holy, give us folders in the fittings sections, and more fittings space. I have to regularly delete fittings to accommodate constantly trying new things and fits. And could you please nudge, guide, help or threaten the dust team into implementing this in dust asap. Pleeeeease and thank you.

CCP Ankou C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2014.05.27 07:39:00 - [76] - Quote killian178 wrote: For the love of all that is holy, give us folders in the fittings sections, and more fittings space.. Duly noted!


CCP Ankou C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2014.05.27 07:41:00 - [77] - Quote Oh, and another question for you guys. According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance.

Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 249	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:03:00 - [78] - Quote Loadout menu What I want is the list of mods and equipment with meta and cost per item so I can make a cheap suit easy. Currently I pick an item then start restocking it on the dropsuit to see the cost.Maybe have the total in isk the loadout is somewhere also.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 249	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:10:00 - [79] - Quote All things compare when you get killed let the data be compared . Your suit his suit Your gun his gun or their guns Tactical display your gun used against this suit needs to be on target 3.5 seconds to get though shield/armor on body and 2.5 seconds for fire on head.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 473	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:24:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: Oh, and another question for you guys. According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance. Let's see... Deus Ex Human Revolution had a nice condensed view in which you could easily see which areas you have maxed out. The actual skills make it not as clear as it could be, but the green highlights of completed paths give you that feeling of "I'm progressing!". The categories also help. It could be easily adopted into Legion, by having each category refer to a role, which then gets cut up into multiple smaller trees, like "lvl 1 items" for the first branch of items. So you'd know at a glance which branches you have already completed. It would likely require to be multi-layered or something, though, because of the major split of a role's tree once the faction specializations are reached. I like the Dawn of War 2 one, despite it not being an actual tree with branches, because it gives each step on your path its own icon, related to what the skill actually does. It was very easy to see which thresholds you had to reach in order to reach certain options.

Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1002	Posted - 2014.05.27 09:29:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: Oh, and another question for you guys. According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance. Honestly, I love the combination of the new(ish) Mastery and ISIS systems from Eve online.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 827	Posted - 2014.05.27 11:03:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: \ According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance. http://battlefield.ekl-systems.de (Although I have s soft spot for PoE's skill tree, it's somewhat 'advanced mode') Dust/Eve transfers
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs 507	Posted - 2014.05.27 12:36:00 - [83] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: Oh, and another question for you guys. According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance. There-¦s this Sci-fi game that vaguely reminds Dust 514, but their skill system is awesome. It shows what i require in order to use certain equipments, and it has a neat way of showing the skills by category.
Captain Crutches Nexus Marines 134	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:50:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: One thing interesting is that some of you mentioned a lack of tutorials. What are the aspects of the game you would like to see a tutorial about? As much as possible. Everything. All the things. As in Eve, each window should have a tutorial the first time it's opened that can be either read or dismissed. More important features should involve a hands-on lesson that involves going to a planet, shooting something, picking up some loot, etc. You want to make the game more accessible to new players without dumbing it down? Then take the time to explain it well to newbies. It helps them become more familiar and accustomed to the complexity inherent in New Eden, it will improve player retention and enjoyment, and it'll take a significant burden off people like Dennie who are currently saddled with sending out dozens of mails explaining everything you guys currently don't. Z's progression is the only thing about Legion that gives me doubts. The rest has me totally stoked! @CaptainCrutches
Veka Kari The Phoenix Federation Caps and Mercs 41	Posted - 2014.05.27 17:40:00 - [85] - Quote I really think that the skill tree should be organized categorically. For example, instead of having the skill tree for dropsuits be classified by {racial}[Weight], I would compress it all to the 4 races. Thus giving you one more area to put an additional ability for the Racial skill. Something that might affect payout of FW for that race maybe?
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5802	Posted - 2014.05.27 19:14:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: Oh, and another question for you guys. According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance. Couldn't find anything I liked. Decided to make this instead: http://prezi.com/nnsnot-wnqnk/?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=copy Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3486	Posted - 2014.05.28 01:50:00 - [87] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Ankou wrote: Oh, and another question for you guys. According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance. Couldn't find anything I liked. Decided to make this instead: http://prezi.com/nnsnot-wnqnk/?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=copy This reminds me a TON of the menus in Metroid Prime 2. http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140423000752/metroid/images/0/0c/OptionsMP2.png Basically you would have a center point that all of the connected orbs would "orbit" around, and depending on which way you pushed the control stick, the orbs would spin around in different directions. Whichever orb was the closest was the orb that would currently be selected. When you selected an orb, that orb would then become the new "center" and sprout new orbs that would give you the next set of options to choose from. On the right side of the screen would be a list of the path you took, just like you can see the path on the top bar of a file opened in windows. My favorite skill system was the one from Final Fantasy 13 though. While it was very linear, it was beautiful and let you easily choose which roles you wanted to unlock things in, or which roles you wanted to focus in. It was easy enough that a 3 year old could level up characters without any thought, but still detailed enough to where experienced players could pick and choose how to effectively spend their cp. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

CCP Ankou C C P C C P Alliance 37	Posted - 2014.05.28 02:04:00 - [88] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Ankou wrote: \ According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance. http://battlefield.ekl-systems.de (Although I have s soft spot for PoE's skill tree, it's somewhat 'advanced mode') I was totally expecting somebody to mention Path Of Exile It does not really fit my "easy to understand" criteria though Pretty cool proposal Aeon! Reminded me the menu from Bionic Commando It would work even better with a pad. One thing I would like to achieve is to be able to show the overall progression in the first "page" of the skill tree. I really like the idea to use transparency to show the other branches of the tree. This is something we will probably investigate.

Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 206	Posted - 2014.05.28 02:10:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: As a side note, several of you mentioned the menus were slow, took too long time to load. This is a technical problem outside of my scope but we definitively want to make things faster. Do you think integrating battle menus into the cortex (arm hologram) would make things faster or is this unrelated to the technical aspect? (<-this is purely for my understanding) CCP Ankou wrote: One thing interesting is that some of you mentioned a lack of tutorials. What are the aspects of the game you would like to see a tutorial about? I'd like to see a tutorial about fittings and marketplace concepts. I think this game needs to be treated backwards in terms of tutorials, meaning non-combat tutorials should be a priority. Combat is dynamic and, for the most part, one can only improve on one's own skills by playing his/her role more and learning through experience; playing a role is something that must be done oneself and cannot be taught verbally. In contrast, the fittings and marketplace are, for the most part, going to remain static after a system is put in place. In addition, fittings and the marketplace are where the player's most significant choices will be made because a fitting is a player's identity and ISK is a player's life source. Especially for new players, being able understand these aspects (esp. money management) of a relatively more complex game will make or break their ability to use what they fit on the battlefield and survive (keep playing the game). Aside from both of these, I really cannot stress enough the need for exceptional Tool Tips (not sure if you've read this, but it is address to you) because they will relieve pressure from solely relying on tutorials and will greatly help new players integrate into a complex, competitive, costly(ISK) environment. Lovin' daddy Rattati!
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5811	Posted - 2014.05.28 02:12:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Ankou wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Ankou wrote: \ According to you what are the games that have a great representation for their skill tree? I am looking for something clear at a glance. http://battlefield.ekl-systems.de (Although I have s soft spot for PoE's skill tree, it's somewhat 'advanced mode') I was totally expecting somebody to mention Path Of Exile It does not really fit my "easy to understand" criteria though Pretty cool proposal Aeon! Reminded me the menu from Bionic Commando It would work even better with a pad. One thing I would like to achieve is to be able to show the overall progression in the first "page" of the skill tree. I really like the idea to use transparency to show the other branches of the tree. This is something we will probably investigate. Cool cool, sounds like my proposal made an impact and that's what counts ^_- Currently in Dust 514 we have two different versions of the skills menu. Could have the massive skill tree that CCP Z showed in the Progression panel at Fan-Fest as well as a separate system for the user's preference. Your call though, of course. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1



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