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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
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CCP Ankou
C C P C C P Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.05.21 09:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys,
I am CCP Ankou, and as the blue tag under my name shows, I am one of the guys working on Project Legion in Shanghai. IGÇÖm currently in charge of User Experience, and my goal is to ensure you have a smooth experience playing the game!
So, I have been super excited to see the discussion about HUD started by our dear CCP MC Peanut. We are definitively trying to take into account all your ideas and feedbacks!
I was wondering if we could have a similar discussion about the Menus: especially the Market and Fitting Screens.
First, I would like your feedbacks on your experience with DUST Menus. -What were the things you liked? -What were you biggest frustrations? -What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome.
Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. -What are you expectations around this?
Do not hesitate to throw your craziest ideas and references. This is brainstorming time here not GÇ£omg we will not have time to implement thisGÇ¥ time.
Waiting to hear from you my dear gamers.
CCP Ankou |
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Cameron StarGazer
Trifectas' Praetorian Guard
33
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Posted - 2014.05.21 09:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hello o/
For me the menus themselves were not necessarily the problem, but the interconnectivity between them. This is most particularly apartment in the fitting screens.
If for example I ran out of a particular fitting, looked at a particular module and thought to myself 'Hey, I wonder what the next module up from that? I would leave the fitting window to go to the market, find the module I wanted, but then discovered I need a particular level of skill to use said module. I would then have to leave the market screen to then find said skill on the market or skill tree to buy it then train it. I would then have to leave these screens and go back to the module in the market, buy my stock and then return to the fitting screen. Then repeat for every suit fitting you want to upgrade.
It was... Well long.
The ability to buy and upgrade skills from an items requirements menu would be great. |
Aoena Rays
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
491
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Posted - 2014.05.21 09:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cameron StarGazer wrote:particularly apartment in the fitting screens. I think you wanted to say apparent :) Just a tiny edit needed. And yes I agree with most of the stuff you mentioned. We need smooth connection between game menus and ease of access!
Story of your life
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Cameron StarGazer
Trifectas' Praetorian Guard
33
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Posted - 2014.05.21 09:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aoena Rays wrote:Cameron StarGazer wrote:particularly apartment in the fitting screens. I think you wanted to say apparent :) Just a tiny edit needed. And yes I agree with most of the stuff you mentioned. We need smooth connection between game menus and ease of access!
Yeah I look at these forums on my iPhone and for some reason the Eve and Dust ones don't like spell check, and then there is auto correct.... |
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2373
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Posted - 2014.05.21 10:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
My problem is with the minimal info given about the fitting menus. It doesn't give enough info. I want to know how my damps affect my suit in real time, not do the math and hope it's right.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
454
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Posted - 2014.05.21 11:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
I liked the interface of the menues - Switching sections with up/down and progressing with left/right. Calling in the Neocom with L1 was also nice and easy. However, the market was annoying because it would auto-select the "featured" section, which meant that buying something required you to open the market, press left and then navigate, instead of instantly navigating the list.
Also, the clumsy in-combat interfaces are incredibly frustrating. When I join a battle, I look at the leaderboard to see if I'll get protostomped. Sometimes, the TEN SECONDS that you get to spawn are not enough to load the leaderboard.
On the fitting screen, I would have liked the ability to change the suit of a fitting. For example, to copy my ghetto logi (A basic light suit with two equipment slots) and then replace the suit with an actual logi, after unlocking it.
Restocking should give the option of restocking "up to" instead of "by". IIRC that's how it originally was.
The fitting screen was seriously lacking in information. No scan precision. No directly visible stacking penalties (I want the combined stats to showcase the amount of bonus that I lost from penalties, in red), no skill bonuses, etc.
The text chat interface was a joke, especially during battles. It does ****-all if you actually want to rally the blueberries and defeat the protostompers. Text chat needs to appear ingame, one everyone's HUD, but limited to team chat. I'm sure that we'll otherwise get idiots who blab about plans, loadouts and the like to the enemy team. However, I would love the ability to call out positions of Thale's snipers to the enemy team. On that note, a gesture system would be incredibly useful. In current Dust, I sometimes try to communicate by shooting - The ability to point at something or to jump in place to get attention would make life far more easy.
The market was weird in how it portrayed skill requirements. There's a green checkbox above items that you don't actually have the necessary skill for, which is really confusing.
I'd also like the ability to select a module in the fitting screen and have the system show me all variants of the module. I want to compare them like I'd compare items that I currently own - By seeing the effect directly on the fitting screen, without needing to buy and equip the stuff.
The limit to thirty fittings was extremely frustrating. I also want folders for items, at the very least. There's tons of completely pointless stuff that clogs up my module lists.
Other things: - Damage types of weapons - Racial alignments of weapons - Tanking styles of suits Those are things that no new player will be able to figure out in any even remotely sane way. The only way to find out these things is through following the forums. It's never explained in the game and it could be solved easily by just having icons - Icons for damage type, icons for racial alignment, icons for intended tanking style, icons for charge-shot features, etc. Make stuff quantifiable at a glance. Theoretically, the visual aesthetics alread fullfill most of that function. I'll leave it up to you how to actually teach people what Amarr/Gallente/Minmatar/Caldari stuff looks like in terms of style and color. Maybe you can come up with a nice way of conditioning, like contrasting a player's chosen faction with their opposing faction in the tutorial.
Also, do something so that a new player will actually know that an "assault" variant is a Gallente-like version of the rifle of another race. |
Rich o
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
245
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Posted - 2014.05.21 11:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Some things that came to my mind:
Negatives: * We have the skill-tree and the menu with invested skills. Can't they be combined so that when I check the skill-tree I see how many SP I already invested into one particular skill? * It takes too much time to buy more than 100 pieces of one item due to not being able to just write in a number and the "100 pieces at a time"-limitation
Missings: * Option to categorize our fittings with tabs. With the actual system having more than 10 suits becomes complicated. There needs to be a way to create tabs and put your fittings in there * When you choose to fit your suit you have to scroll for hours to find the module/weapon/etc you want to fit. Maybe some kind of categorization or menue could help * When fitting a suit, I want to know the actual speed, dampening level, scanradius and precision-level. Calculating these things over and over is no fun * Fitting screen again: Would be nice if next to each item we could see the symbol for STD/ADV/PRO and if stacking penalty is applied to a module (including percentage)
Market: * The option to give sth. away for free would be cool (Ex: Give merc XY z amounts of weapon A for free) * The possibility to sell stuff for AUR (like officer-weapons, if they will be present in Legion); this could also bump your AUR-sales * If someone decides to sell stuff, this stuff should not be available to be equipped in the fitting screen * Maybe some kind of "fast sale": The decition to sell the whole amount of one item at 50% of the original ISK-price.
2nd place in EU Squad Cup
Master Shinobi
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Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
296
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Posted - 2014.05.21 11:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Ankou wrote: Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. -What are you expectations around this?
I assume that with regards to the market you are referring to things from a UI perspective. If you want to keep the door open to bringing Legion to consoles one day in the future, I don't think you should design your UI's in the way that EVE has designed its own. The EVE UI's are very much designed around the mouse, and wouldn't transfer over easily. That includes things like windows within EVE being positionable anywhere and resizable.
Also, you should keep in mind that Legion might get played on steam machines (either natively if you do that, or via streaming), or at the very least with a steam controller.
So I'd be looking at UI designs that allow for quick navigation for a mouse, but also are not difficult to move through with just keyboard or a controller. Some games don't do this well though. In Skyrim there's points where the mouse just doesn't integrate as well as it should, and it's puzzling as to why they couldn't tweak mouse behaviour just a little to make it work better.
If for the market you are talking about more than just UI design, I want the freedom to trade with other players, like you find in EVE. Able to transfer isk between characters (across Legion and EVE), and items, or sell those on market. Could you provide some clarity on what precisely you mean? Are you asking about how to bring EVE's existing market system to a UI in Legion? |
The-Errorist
696
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Posted - 2014.05.21 11:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Things I like: How the star-map is currently displayed
How the market is integrated into the fitting menu
Using the neocom is optional
Being able to view the overview map at different angles
Spawn time circles
Having the head of the suit of a fitting which helps users know the race & frame size.
It's easy to tell if something is s tandard, advanced, and prototype by looking at the top left corner of its icon for the triangle.
Information tabs that organize an item's information
Visual representations of stuff and symbols instead of text
The loading screen shows helpful information
Faction warfare end of match progress screen
Things I don't like I have to do a lot of actions to go to my fittings while in the marketplace
The sorting options don't work in the market
How I can't easily navigate between related menus
How not many things are color coded
Can't tell who's online in my contact list
Watch list is broken
Last online feature isn't implemented
No notification of when a player adds me as contact like it does when an EVE player does.
How the leaderboards menu is organized; need sections like KDR, WP, Kills and from there we should be able to filter based on time and for friends, corp, alliance, and all.
Missing stats on the fitting menu
The Neocom theme is ugly
EVE time is in the Neocom menu instead of on the screen somewhere.
Lack of tutorials and explanations and the current ones aren't that great because they're just a bunch of text.
After a FW or PC battle, there isn't an animation that shows the district on the planet changing ownership.
The who killed you window doesn't show who else or how much damage from other sources also took part in killing you.
The ISK transfer menu doesn't display commas and it can be a problem when transferring large sums of ISK.
The wallet transaction history isn't very specific and doesn't show the message that users put with donations. For contract payments, it should say the contract type, who paid you, and if you won or lost.
I have to access a separate menu to view the alternate way of viewing/upgrading skills instead of clicking or pressing something.
The starmap doesn't have sorting options for battles so I can join and there isn't a side bar to show those results of my sorting/ search criteria.
[Things I expect in Legion] General UI -Being able to customize it, hide elements, and move things around -The things in the previous list above fixed.
Warbarge -The table map and outpost outlines need to be functional
Player market -Sorting options -Being able to see how an item functions if possible (firing animation, the visual effects hardeners have, and sounds)
Fitting Screen -Sorting options -Grouping options -All stats on the screen
Also here's a quote from a relevant thread that I like:
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I want to actually interact with things in a tangible way, not just through text and menus. I want to feel part of a world, and not like I'm just playing some lobby shooter.
I want to see my corp's HQ and its members, not just read their names in a menu. I want to see squadmates all in one room, the MQ of the squad leader. I want to see my assets (even if its all in just boxes). I want to explore social hubs with EVE and Dust players in space stations or planetary cities instead of just chat rooms. I want to explore districts and manually salvage dropped goods when not in battle. EDIT: I want to explore the space station my merc quarters is currently on, and to see other mercs there as well.
MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).
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Ansiiis The Trustworthy
Legio DXIV
1252
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Posted - 2014.05.21 12:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Anything that can be misclicked (like BUY AURUM) which freezes up your system for 5 minutes while your squad deploys.
Check corp tag.
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
5686
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Posted - 2014.05.21 12:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Ankou wrote:Hey guys, I am CCP Ankou, and as the blue tag under my name shows, I am one of the guys working on Project Legion in Shanghai. IGÇÖm currently in charge of User Experience, and my goal is to ensure you have a smooth experience playing the game! So, I have been super excited to see the discussion about HUD started by our dear CCP MC Peanut. We are definitively trying to take into account all your ideas and feedbacks! I was wondering if we could have a similar discussion about the Menus: especially the Market and Fitting Screens. First, I would like your feedbacks on your experience with DUST Menus. -What were the things you liked? -What were you biggest frustrations? -What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome. Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. -What are you expectations around this? Do not hesitate to throw your craziest ideas and references. This is brainstorming time here not GÇ£omg we will not have time to implement thisGÇ¥ time. Waiting to hear from you my dear gamers. CCP Ankou
Market groupings/skill trees were always a pain in the *** to deal with, honestly. They seemed ridiculously cluttered and didn't provide much information besides an arbitrary description, PG/CPU cost, and ISK cost.
Thing about it is we have ISK, LP, and Aurum models of almost everything, and that was before you even started looking at the racial variations of dropsuits and what not. On top of that, we have a bunch of other extra stuff like BPOs, event items, and officer stuff. The market kind of did some justice by sorting them but once you hit the fitting screen, all bets were off and you had to scroll through dozens/hundreds of different items just to find what you wanted.
Skill trees were sort of similar but most of that is being handled with the progression system.
Another thing is that for a new player, a lot of the time they didn't know whether or not they could use an item and there was an effort to solve that by putting the requirements in the market window - which just further added clutter. All that was needed was a red highlight to signify that the player didn't meet the skill requirements.
I would have liked to have been able to open the variations tab of an item and then proceeded to the 'Show Info' for those items, perhaps see the stats of weapons that I don't have yet or weapons that aren't available to me (a good example being the 'Daemon' Shotgun which only came out for the EU guys).
Another thing we need is a method to file support tickets via an in-game means. It's kind of a pain.
TL;DR:
Better market groupings to reduce clutter.
Fitting screen -indefinitely- needs grouping so items aren't just piled into one giant list.
Better recognition of an item that the player doesn't have skills for in the market/assets window.
Ability to view a similar item's 'Show Info' through the variations tab of an item.
Desperately need an in-game method of filing support tickets.
And, yeah, not sure if it's your department but restocking options need to go back to closed beta style where you restocked the fitting "up to" instead of "by". It creates unnecessary expenditure otherwise.
Like the old star map, thought the one in Uprising was too cartoony. Legion's looks fine though.
Other than that, I've got no complaints.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Eddie Rio
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
125
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Posted - 2014.05.21 12:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Ankou wrote:Hey guys, I am CCP Ankou, and as the blue tag under my name shows, I am one of the guys working on Project Legion in Shanghai. IGÇÖm currently in charge of User Experience, and my goal is to ensure you have a smooth experience playing the game! So, I have been super excited to see the discussion about HUD started by our dear CCP MC Peanut. We are definitively trying to take into account all your ideas and feedbacks! I was wondering if we could have a similar discussion about the Menus: especially the Market and Fitting Screens. First, I would like your feedbacks on your experience with DUST Menus. -What were the things you liked? -What were you biggest frustrations? -What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome. Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. -What are you expectations around this? Do not hesitate to throw your craziest ideas and references. This is brainstorming time here not GÇ£omg we will not have time to implement thisGÇ¥ time. Waiting to hear from you my dear gamers. CCP Ankou
one thing i can see is it must of been hard trying to design all the market for dust using just the controller, now we are unleashing it onto PC hopefully it can be allot faster to do things and also include many quick right click or drop down options to also enhance the user ability of the market....
one thing I did like was the market front panel, showing things that are on sale, whats most popular and other deals etc, this is also a good way for you to promote the micro transactions and fund the game, its clear the items cost money, its not shoving it in your face every time you log on, its just showing you what you can get if you get some aurum.
one other thing I really liked is being able to restock an entire suit and fitting with one click, it showed me the total cost of my suit and I could replenish all items with one click (if only eve had this)
scrolling up and down long lists of items was however a bit of a chore, i think this maybe just because my controller didnt have a mouse wheel, but if the market is going to be opened up like in eve, maybe steal the eve system and adapt it for legion, lots of drop down lists for the various category's.
One thing that was massively missing was the ability to sell back items (even to an NPC market) so if this is included maybe an option where you can also select multiple items to sell in bulk, rather than clicking each item to sell individually, or even a way to melt them down to minerals (to either make more items of things you use, or sell mineral back to market some how)
if the market has to eventually tie in with eve it would make sense to copy allot of its features for later integrating it, one thing I like in eve is I can open my hanger and see every single item all with there little thumbnails, after a while you know the thumbnail images well and can find them fast for use.
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mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2014.05.21 13:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
There is no need to duplicate work as I see it. Legion will be a PC game and can therefore make use of the UI from EVE that uses mouse and keyboard. By all means develop a means of using the pad, but a lot of the lessons already learned in the design of the EVE market UI should be used, if not the UI just ported over wholesale if that is even possible.
The complex operations required in the management of the contents of the hangar in EVE (multiple item selections, stack splitting, RIGHT CLICK MENU) would be painful to adapt to a pad, and frankly I don't see why you should bother. You've already alienated a large portion of the console players by moving to PC and those of us who already have PCs would much rather you design the interface for the PC instead of trying to shoehorn a console interface in so that people can still use their pads. I have no problem switching between the two on my PC at the moment, going from windows and icons with the mouse and keyboard, to menus and controlling gameplay with my pad. The 'living-room' experience should no longer be the focus, because I know of no-one that has their PC plugged into their TV who does not have a wireless keyboard and mouse for it, designing for an interface that uses nothing but the pad is unecessarily restrictive.
Another point in favour of unifying the interface across EVE and Legion is that, from what I gathered from the bits of FF I did catch on the stream, eventually we are going to be able to switch between different clones for different purposes pretty much at will. Why shouldn't the interface remain constant between all three clone variants?
As to the actual mechanics of the market, it should be the EVE market, simple as that. The Legion interface is accessing the same data as the EVE interface isn't it? Otherwise what is the point? |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
2660
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Posted - 2014.05.21 13:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hi CCP Ankou, welcome to the forums.
Menu inter-connectivity is my biggest personal gripe with the current menu system. The greatest problem at the end of the day is simply navigating the menus for simple battle-to-battle information is cumbersome. When I play Dust the only thing I think when navigating the current menus is, " A wild Zubat has appeared! "
In EVE it feels as though everything is a maximum of 2 clicks or a short-cut away and I like that.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
2835
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Posted - 2014.05.21 13:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Menu lag in Dust is extreme. Click something and reaction to you input is ~1 second later.
This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
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steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3101
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Posted - 2014.05.21 13:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
.... Its like we have a whole new ccp...
On the fitting screen could u colour code which modules are using thecpu and power, its hard to explain but when im trying to opmosie a fit it would be nice to that nades are using 5 and ninte is using 3 on that gold bar thing.
This woukd save ne from having to spend ages chopping and changing, or breakung out a notepad and pen
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Grimmiers
559
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
My main peeves are
-The get aurum taking so long to load and being the first option so I accidentally click it -No smart restock for the fittings -No categorized gear in the fittting menu. Having to scroll through a ton of other weapons to find a sniper is cumbersome. -We need a lot more information on our current fitting. Everything that can be changed with skills should be updated and weapons should show ranges and damage profile outside of the battle.
Things I liked
-The wallet is nice. I would like a line graph instead to see if it's smart to buy buy buy or sell sell sell! -The leaderboard being updated monthly and weekly
For player market
Like in eve, there needs to be a buying list where people can fill out your orders. You should also have corporation/alliance discounts available. There should also be an option to only have contacts, corp, alliance, or all be able to buy an item.
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Atlas Kordan
Concordiat Mercenaries Dropsuit Samurai
2
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Would like to see a few things, if possibly:
1. The ability to sell stuff back onto the market. For instance, if I bought 50 basic shield extenders ages ago, but don't use them anymore, I would like the ability to sell them back.
2. The ability to see advanced stats on my suit, instead of having to do the math outside of the game. For example, if a damage mod. increases the damage of my weapon by 5%, then I would like to see that added to my weapon damage as soon as I add it to my suit (by selecting my weapon and seeing an increase in damage).
3. (probably not the correct thread) Having weapons and items race linked, like the suits themselves. I.e. have to unlock a caldari weapon skill to use a caldari weapon, and so forth
4. Have better categories (or sub-categories) for items. For instance, instead of only having a high slot item category that includes all high slot items, have sub-categories for each item you can put into a high slot. Example: if I want to put in a weapon damage mod on my suit, currently I have to scour through shield extenders, shield rechargers, etc ..., just to get to the mod I want. If there were sub-cat's for each item, then I could get to the item I want faster.
Make Music Not War!
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1030
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Ankou wrote:Hey guys, ... I was wondering if we could have a similar discussion about the Menus: especially the Market and Fitting Screens.
First, I would like your feedbacks on your experience with DUST Menus. -What were the things you liked? -What were you biggest frustrations? -What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome.
Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. -What are you expectations around this? ....
CCP Ankou
Nice to meet you, CCP Ankou.
I'll break this into the two macro categories (Fitting and Market) and work from there: Fitting - The suit fitting screen is generally very well done and i recommend building from it rather than rebuilding
- Over time you'll have dozens of suit fits and tons of gear and we need an easy way to organize them. I recommend either a tab or quick sort function in the fitting screen for assets and fits. Ideally we could label them ourselves and organize in our own fashion but at least start out with Role tabs. Also, based on discussion in CCP Z's thread you may want to make Meta level a sortable option or tab as well to support the matchmaking concept.
- The fitting screens need to clearly show the benefit of modules, skills, and weapons on drop suit performance. This is very convoluted a the moment and could really be cleaned up. Please check out http://www.protofits.com and http://dust.thang.dk for a bit of inspiration.
- I think you could definitely improve the feel and aesthetics of the fitting screen. My recommendation is to take the ship hangar form EVE and Tony Starks Ironman collection room and combine them a bit. Generally the lighting needs to be brighter...not shadows and half lit images. Rarely do the suits look the same way in play (with brighter lighting) than they do in the fit screen. Show off the work your designers and artists are doing!
- Restocking from the fit screen. I would really like to have a smarter restock system so I can tell my Legion "Jarvis" to maintain 50x copies of my "PC Cal Logi - Uber-Hiver" fit at all times and he auto-stocks after matches. The big key is that the fit is restocked ONLY with the items required to bring you to the requested fit number...NOT buy 50x copies of the entire fit.
- One thing i would like to do is be able to send a fitted suit or at least the suit specs to someone from the fitting screen. Sort of the "Hey, what do you think of this scout fit?" kinda thing. That would be a great tool to foster idea exchange and for vets to help newer players out since a huge topic is optimum fits for play style (and survivability).
Market - Wow...lot to do on this one. The biggest thing i would say is don't skimp on depth to make it accessible whatever you do...build a legit well thought out tutorial for it
- I would like to be able to trade, buy, or sell at will...and the system shouldn't have built in escrow protections (this would be a great player function). This would be an easy area that you could establish an Arms Dealer character and play the market not unlike you can in EVE. Since we likely won't have crafting / research...let us have a really deep market.
- Use the EVE market structured UI as your baseline for functionality...then build a smooth UI that puts theirs to shame.
- One interesting question is can I only buy items that are on my station? In EVE, i hope in my ship and go to Jita to pick up an order...can't really do that in Legion I suspect? Does this mean we contract for shipping from either NPC or players for our goods? I LIKE THAT...just to be clear. I can have a large shipment of weapons, modules, HAVs, dropships, ext for my corp that needs to be moved from Jita to our corp home station in Black Rise to support our local market and upcoming big offensive. Pretty much a standard courier contract on the EVE side...or you have an NPC shipper do it (at slightly higher than average cost and slower delivery time) so the cost and logistics is real but I'm not dependent on EVE players for success.
- You will need a very clean and simple contract system that interacts with EVE. Again...don't dumb it down but perhaps maximize pop ups and tool tips to help folks. Leave NPC contracts on by default and you change that in your market settings when you are comfortable with dealing with EVE side folks (if you ever want to that is).
- Tying into the station location has meaning as noted above...this is critical to the market. Let corps / alliances have offices in stations and the associated functionality of that. Also, Legion Mercs must be given the option to move to those stations when they join (even if it's a magic move). If you aren't in the same station I probably shouldn't be able to send you a fitted suit instantly. I can send the spec sheet and you can have one in the station i'm in waiting on you or you contract to ship it.... i.e. pay the freight.
..................................
Really appreciate you asking for feedback on this. Looking forward to working with you, CCP Ankou!
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Driftward
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
968
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
When in the market and searching for goods there should be a fully functional sort option, especially for NPC items. Currently, we have between 20-30 variants for one module between different levels, aurum, bpo, event, and LP variants. Being able to check a box and say we only want to see Aurum and LP versions or only regular versions would help reduce the clutter and the scrolling. This is absolutely necessary for a player market as well when we start getting multiple contracts for the same weapon.
There could be a couple levels that you work through before contracts are listed. Top level is weapons, modules, equipment...second level is subtype: (weapon) light, heavy, sidearm, turret, grenade...third sublevel... and so on until you get to the exact weapon variant which when selected rolls out the contracts available for that particular variant (and if there are very few provide alternate variants that have active contracts)
Also, the suggestion of the post ^ about tying in spatial location to freight and delivery would add amazingly to the depth of trading. Of course, that only matters if you have your "warehouse" is one location and there is resistance involved in moving all your items/warehouse. This may be an end game type consideration. As in high sec allows for very cheap freight with zero/negligible risk (lose a few items out of a hundred randomly depending on distance moved). In Low or Null sec you get both NPC (low sec) and player contracts to move items and or fittings to new systems for battle.....
Ahh damn....sorry getting off topic of UI and more into game design elements. |
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2873
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
The important thing with menus is that you don't flood people with information.
In the marketplace:
In-line skill book purchasing is nice, but it doesn't need to be part of the lowest level menu, give as an option after you look at the weapon details.
Provide the 3D render as part of the more info section, there is no need to add another shortcut button for it. Show the Weapons position in whatever skill tree you implement (please not Z's) and allow the user to navigate the tree as well.
In terms of the lowest level of the market place, it should try and look more like the homepage on the current one as much as possible.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
2578
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
The biggest problem was all the missing information. Employment history was nowhere to be found in the DUST client. Alliances aren't listed anywhere in the client. When reading a player list, you'd have to "just know" which corps are in which alliances, since only the corp name was shown. There was no corp management UI to speak of. DUST players are forced to pass CEO to EVE players in order to join alliances.
Weapon type info is a horrible gap, since the bonuses on suits relied on weapon types, but there was no info on what weapons were what weapon types in the game UI.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Jadek Menaheim
Ancient Textiles.
3072
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Something missing.... Here's a mock up of a menu design called the contribution tab. It works by checking individuals player battle tax records, which was something unfortunately missing for Dust as an exploitable endpoint. A contribution tracking tool could allow players at all levels of Dust/Eve corporation to check their contribution level to corporation and even gauge contribution between members thus stirring up some healthy competition.
Contribution Tab Concept with descriptions
[Corporate Competition via Contribution Tab Tool]
Again a tab like this doesn't necessarily need to be made in game; however, the release of specific endpoint server side could greatly expand the meta of the game in very meaningful ways.
Gÿ+/ Join MySpaceTom's army
/Gûî
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Lady MDK
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 17:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Ankou wrote:
First, I would like your feedbacks on your experience with DUST Menus. -What were the things you liked? -What were you biggest frustrations? -What were the features you thought were clearly missing? I mean the things you wanted to do but you could not or you felt were cumbersome.
Second, as you are aware, we are working on this little new thing called the Player Market. -What are you expectations around this?
Hey Ankou,
I actually found the menus relatively easy to get around being a regular EVE player and being familiar with the Neocom concept.
There appears to be a bit of a move away from this if the new menus follow what we saw at fan fest in the legion keynote (ahem sorry). I would say this is one area where the two games can find some sort of visual common ground and Legion should (as dust did before it) try and use some of the same DNA. Not saying they should be the same but a similar approach to things.
Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following.
I don't care so neither should you :)
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
8677
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 18:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
I agree with some folks here that lack of information was problematic. I don't want to have to bust out my calculator just to see what the basic bonus is for my damage output. The same goes for the stats not updating with the bonuses as they should. And as others have pointed out, knowing the damage type for each weapon is helpful if you can implement it.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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DAMIOS82
WarRavens Final Resolution.
119
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 19:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
What i did not like in the market was whenever i wanted to buy stuff all i can do is buy them by the 100 at once. That is so enoying when you have millions of isk or aur and you have to press buy way to many times. I'm like a horder, when i buy stuff i want to buy them by the 1000 or 5000 or 10000 or even 100000, not 100.
That said a sell button is also a nice feature....since at one point or the other some stuff becomes absolete and i would like to sell it.
For special items like officer weapons or other maybe future gear, i would like to see buy/sell contracts or the ability to create them.
Another thing i disliked is the races should be a seperate tab for selecting, not all pressed together under one menu. If i select suits, then i want to select caldari suits and not all of them. Sure now there are not many, but at one point there will be and i prefer it all seperate.
What i also disliked when in the customizer for the suits/gear, the limit that was placed on how many you can make ( 30 is not enough). See i want to make one for any scenario i can think of, but i also like to have some form or system that makes it all nice and in order.
More info on not just stuff, but also people, like total skills points, the option to ad you own bio, to actually be able to see corp history, later on medals and awards granted, etc.
As for chat the ability to get rid of local chat or alliance chat, but also get it back when ever you do want it and to actually hear people with mics in those two aswell.
Another thing i'd like to see is easier ways to look up corporations and add them/join them. Like for instance you select a person, get the menu, select info, see there corp and press it for more info. Something along those lines. |
Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs
496
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 19:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
I mostly went to battles, so didn-¦t need a loooot of interaction with the menus, however, a few things that really were a pain due to the console interface like not being able to delete all mail and so on, things that won-¦t happen on a PC.
Market
Market is important not only to "get my shinny equip", but also as an economic and conflict generator. The biggest link we can have between EVE and legion is trough production / market.
Principles: - Market must be supplied by players - Economy is a form of warfare - Logistics are an essential part of warfare - If your market hub is not supplied, you-¦re stuck with what you brought - If you don-¦t have a production/storage chain and your opponent bought everything available on the market, you-¦re stuck with what you brought - Station / Planetary Hub / Disctrict markets - You can have an NPC delivery system from Station to Planetary Hub (Space Elevator-Cost in ISK+Time) [Legion / EVE Integration] - You must transport things from the planetary hub to you district market/storage - Transportation from Planetary Hub to Districtcis subject to attack (Drones and Players) [Escort Missions on contract] - You can scan/ambush trasportation convoys and steal their cargo |
Cyrus Militani
Leon Conglomerate
73
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 20:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
----In Battle----
Informational Popovers--
Problem:
The TAB key opens the leader-board will a full screen popup that disrupts game play. Trying to close this menu is even more frustrating because hitting ESC doesn't close it fast enough, and I think hitting ESC again opens a different menu. It sometimes takes 2-3 seconds before I'm able to recover. Look how close the TAB key is to WASD (Up, Left, Down, Right). I have hit this button so many times unintentionally causing a death in an expensive suit I've lost count. I rant about this constantly.
Solution:
- Allow the keyboard keys to be rebound to keys that I want. - Replace those full screen popups with quick loading temporary popovers that don't disrupt game play. Meaning: -- The menu is semi-transparent. -- I can still move around a shoot. -- Holding the button down activates menu (w/ min press of, lets say 50 milliseconds). -- Releasing button deactivates menu.
Restocking In Battle--
Problem:
If you run out of stock on a suit you have to go through a few menus to restock a suit. Sometimes after restocking that suit it selects the previous suit you had (bug?). Getting back in battle can take longer than I would like.
Solution:
Let me select the suit and restock it in the background. I'd be willing to pay a 10% ISK penalty to get into battle that much faster. If I want to restock more than 1x suit, then I can go through the whole menu.
ISK Proficiency--
Problem:
Currently there is no way to know how much ISK was lost vs how much was gained. I currently put the cost in thousands in the fitting name (manually) and keep a running total in my head. Even then, I don't know how many WP I got from each fitting before I got terminated. Yes I spent 50,000 on this suit, but was it worth it? How many WP did I get while in this suit? How much damage in / out and heal in / out did I do? Yes this suit costs 10k and this one costs 50k and I spent 100k (gasp!) but did the 50k suit contribute to the team more?
Solution:
- In battle, perhaps when selecting a fitting for spawn, show ISK out. - End of battle, Show a total ISK out vs ISK in. How much profit? - End of battle, Dedicate a tab to proficiency. Show WP in/out, damage in/out, healing in/out, ISK out, kills, vehicle blown up, and duration for each fitting before termination. If someone revives you, that doesn't count as a termination. If you switch to a different suit from a supply depot it "counts" but would show 0 ISK out.
WP Gain vs Repair & Restock Messages -
Problem: They look the same. Blue text. Solution: Change the color. Things that give you WP should be one color, things that don't should be another.
--Out of Battle--
Battle History--
Problem: You can only see the last battle. You lose that information when you log out. Solution: Have a battle history. If I want to see the result of the last 10 battles, let me, and keep it around even when I log out.
Restocking Fittings--
Problem:
The fitting restock is terrible. It blindly restocks everything by 1x, even when you have too much of something in the fitting already.
Solution:
Take other fittings into account. If I have two fittings that both use Enhanced Armor Plates and it takes up 3 low slots between the two fittings it should be no more than 3x of that module. So if I have 100 Enhanced Armor Plates and I restock both fittings to 20 it should not restock the Enhanced Armor Plates. In this example it should make sure I have up to 60.
This would work by looking at the other suit and seeing that it already has a stock of 20. When I restock the second suit it should restock a module to satisfy that fitting, without taking away from the other fittings.
I currently have to do this manually by restocking modules individually, and it takes a lot of time. Because of a lack of time I have to be somewhat sloppy about it.
Managing Fittings --
Problem:
Managing fittings should be more intuitive and faster.
Solution:
- Allow the player to manually sort fittings. - Allow player to set a preferred stock level for each fitting. - Allow player to "restock all" based on preferred stock of each fitting. - Show the price of a fitting in the list by thousands. If something cost 50,000 ISK show 50k in the name.
Fitting Stats --
Problem:
There are a lot of stats that are affected by skills/modules that are not shown on the fitting that are shown on the suit attributes. OK this module effects this stat by X percent. What is it now? It shows the base stat in the market attributes, but it does not show it in the fitting. There is a stacking penalty, but what is it and by how much? This damage mod increases my Light weapon damage, but what is the stat at right now?
Solution:
- Show every stat before skills and mods. - Show every stat after skills and before mods. - Show every stat after skills and after mods.
No Online Status --
Problem: Contacts is useless because you don't know whether they're online or not. People work around this by using chat channels. If the person is offline they don't show up in the channel.
Solution: Add an online status to the contacts list.
Looking for squad --
Problem:
It's time consuming to get people into a squad, especially those on your contact list or chat channel. "lfs" is the common thing you see when someone is looking for a squad in a chat channel. By the time you get out of battle they're already in a different squad.
Solution:
- Show squad status in contact list and chat channels. - Show battle status in contact list and chat channels. - Have a squad setting to allow players in chat channels or on your contact list to join your squad without being invited. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
8679
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 03:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cyrus Militani wrote:----In Battle----
Informational Popovers--
Problem:
The TAB key opens the leader-board will a full screen popup that disrupts game play. Trying to close this menu is even more frustrating because hitting ESC doesn't close it fast enough, and I think hitting ESC again opens a different menu. It sometimes takes 2-3 seconds before I'm able to recover. Look how close the TAB key is to WASD (Up, Left, Down, Right). I have hit this button so many times unintentionally causing a death in an expensive suit I've lost count. I rant about this constantly.
Solution:
- Allow the keyboard keys to be rebound to keys that I want. - Replace those full screen popups with quick loading temporary popovers that don't disrupt game play. Meaning: -- The menu is semi-transparent. -- I can still move around a shoot. -- Holding the button down activates menu (w/ min press of, lets say 50 milliseconds). -- Releasing button deactivates menu.
Restocking In Battle--
Problem:
If you run out of stock on a suit you have to go through a few menus to restock a suit. Sometimes after restocking that suit it selects the previous suit you had (bug?). Getting back in battle can take longer than I would like.
Solution:
Let me select the suit and restock it in the background. I'd be willing to pay a 10% ISK penalty to get into battle that much faster. If I want to restock more than 1x suit, then I can go through the whole menu.
ISK Proficiency--
Problem:
Currently there is no way to know how much ISK was lost vs how much was gained. I currently put the cost in thousands in the fitting name (manually) and keep a running total in my head. Even then, I don't know how many WP I got from each fitting before I got terminated. Yes I spent 50,000 on this suit, but was it worth it? How many WP did I get while in this suit? How much damage in / out and heal in / out did I do? Yes this suit costs 10k and this one costs 50k and I spent 100k (gasp!) but did the 50k suit contribute to the team more?
Solution:
- In battle, perhaps when selecting a fitting for spawn, show ISK out. - End of battle, Show a total ISK out vs ISK in. How much profit? - End of battle, Dedicate a tab to proficiency. Show WP in/out, damage in/out, healing in/out, ISK out, kills, vehicle blown up, and duration for each fitting before termination. If someone revives you, that doesn't count as a termination. If you switch to a different suit from a supply depot it "counts" but would show 0 ISK out.
WP Gain vs Repair & Restock Messages -
Problem: They look the same. Blue text. Solution: Change the color. Things that give you WP should be one color, things that don't should be another.
--Out of Battle--
Battle History--
Problem: You can only see the last battle. You lose that information when you log out. Solution: Have a battle history. If I want to see the result of the last 10 battles, let me, and keep it around even when I log out.
Restocking Fittings--
Problem:
The fitting restock is terrible. It blindly restocks everything by 1x, even when you have too much of something in the fitting already.
Solution:
Take other fittings into account. If I have two fittings that both use Enhanced Armor Plates and it takes up 3 low slots between the two fittings it should be no more than 3x of that module. So if I have 100 Enhanced Armor Plates and I restock both fittings to 20 it should not restock the Enhanced Armor Plates. In this example it should make sure I have up to 60.
This would work by looking at the other suit and seeing that it already has a stock of 20. When I restock the second suit it should restock a module to satisfy that fitting, without taking away from the other fittings.
I currently have to do this manually by restocking modules individually, and it takes a lot of time. Because of a lack of time I have to be somewhat sloppy about it.
Managing Fittings --
Problem:
Managing fittings should be more intuitive and faster.
Solution:
- Allow the player to manually sort fittings. - Allow player to set a preferred stock level for each fitting. - Allow player to "restock all" based on preferred stock of each fitting. - Show the price of a fitting in the list by thousands. If something cost 50,000 ISK show 50k in the name.
Fitting Stats --
Problem:
There are a lot of stats that are affected by skills/modules that are not shown on the fitting that are shown on the suit attributes. OK this module effects this stat by X percent. What is it now? It shows the base stat in the market attributes, but it does not show it in the fitting. There is a stacking penalty, but what is it and by how much? This damage mod increases my Light weapon damage, but what is the stat at right now?
Solution:
- Show every stat before skills and mods. - Show every stat after skills and before mods. - Show every stat after skills and after mods.
No Online Status --
Problem: Contacts is useless because you don't know whether they're online or not. People work around this by using chat channels. If the person is offline they don't show up in the channel.
Solution: Add an online status to the contacts list.
Looking for squad --
Problem:
It's time consuming to get people into a squad, especially those on your contact list or chat channel. "lfs" is the common thing you see when someone is looking for a squad in a chat channel. By the time you get out of battle they're already in a different squad.
Solution:
- Show squad status in contact list and chat channels. - Show battle status in contact list and chat channels. - Have a squad setting to allow players in chat channels or on your contact list to join your squad without being invited.
This practically covers everything we are talking about here. Thanks.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3435
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 03:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:I agree with some folks here that lack of information was problematic. I don't want to have to bust out my calculator just to see what the basic bonus is for my damage output. The same goes for the stats not updating with the bonuses as they should. And as others have pointed out, knowing the damage type for each weapon is helpful if you can implement it.
There should be an option to switch between simple and complex stats. Simple would only include the most basic stats you need like sprint speed, shields, etc. But complex would be anything and everything...including things related to current equipped weapons.
For example, bonuses from skills that apply to weapon damage, or reload speed. Damage resistances for sentinels...as much as possible.
I'm tired of having to make videos like this: http://youtu.be/hPnjqxwED8M
There's a lot in this game that is hidden, and while I understand that it isn't good for newer players, it should at least be available to those of us that can handle it. _________________________________________________________________
Also when talking about the in-game marketplace, there are tabs/type organizers just like you'd find in a normal file on a computer (for instance, organizing by date, file type, title, etc). These heading are not selectable currently and I'd love to have the ability to sort items in the marketplace by different types (race, meta level, etc) _________________________
As another idea would be to have a very simplified version of the marketplace SPECIFICALLY for new players. It would direct them to basic types of gear, and couuld help them better get an idea for what types of suits/weapons are out there available to them.
There should be lots of pictures instead of just text on the screen. _____________________________________________________________________
Finally just as a nitpick that I have...when entering a battle (on the battle finder screen), you can press the circle button to cancel out of the battle. The problem is that the circle button is mostly used while navigating menus to just exit out of the window.
The best solution would be to have a window pop up that asks if you really want to cancel out of the battle...or make it so that you have to highlight/select a cancel "button". It probably won't be much of a problem on the PC, but just something to think about.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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