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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1164	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:21:00 - [1] - Quote Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1428	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:30:00 - [2] - Quote They are currently under-utilized because the Amarr Scout's bonus is (extra stamina) is completely negated by the fact that it is still slower than a Minmatar scout, even over long distances. A simple solution to make the Amarr suit more useful would be to also give it a bonus to movement speed. Not sprint speed but base movement speed. This would let Ammar scouts stack kin cats to make themselves faster than Min scouts (should they wish) or stack hp and still be as quick as the other scouts. Fun > Realism
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1544	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:30:00 - [3] - Quote I think they should be the scouts that are best able to armor tank. If there were an increase in the fitting cost for plates, perhaps they could get a 5 to 10 percent bonus to fitting them. This would both discourage tanking on other scouts while enabling Amarr to be the most able to tank. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10814	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:40:00 - [4] - Quote Amarr scouts aren't used for 2 reasons. 1) While the Amarr scout has the most base HP out of all the scouts, armor-based suits require an armor repairer to be successful. The Gallente scout has a builtin armor repairer, which means it doesn't need to use a low slot for an armor repairer, allowing the Gallente scout to stack more HP, or other modules. Solution: The Amarr scout needs something that the Gallente scout doesn't have. 2) The bonus is useless. Even with the stamina bonus, other scouts can cover more distance in a shorter time; someone had a thread and graph about it, but I can't find it, you guys should have already seen it if you were truly paying attention to feedback so I will assume you already saw it. Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. Perhaps another cloak bonus, like cloak recharge rate or duration. Perhaps 2 racial bonuses like the Minmatar one. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 236	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:49:00 - [5] - Quote Two things give bonus to Sniper Rifle. New idea make the amarr scout scan like a vehicle with a ring of circles coming out of it like a stone dropped in water to x amount of feet. A boosted Passive scan that makes them glow gold like a glorious angelic being. Long Live the Empress!
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2653	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:00:00 - [6] - Quote I would love to see a cloaking bonus.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 792	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:07:00 - [7] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: I would love to see a cloaking bonus. It originally had one, didn't it? bonus to cloak regen or something? Of course, cloaks regen stupidly fast and last ridiculously long as it is, so it's not much of a bonus. Dust/Eve transfers
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10819	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:12:00 - [8] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Two things give bonus to Sniper Rifle. New idea make the amarr scout scan like a vehicle with a ring of circles coming out of it like a stone dropped in water to x amount of feet. A boosted Passive scan that makes them glow gold like a glorious angelic being. Long Live the Empress! Sniper rifle is Caldari, doesn't really make sense. Passive scan precision is already taken by Caldari. The scan ring thing gave me an idea though; what if it emanated a ring like you describe, but the ring was to buff nearby friendlies, and to debuff enemies? would make a great squad asset. The buffs to friendlies could be a decrease in signature profile, and fire rate increase, and the opposite for eneies. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 222	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:13:00 - [9] - Quote The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All eyes on me till you drop dead in your Blood mmmm yummy
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14360	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:15:00 - [10] - Quote I know it kind of steps on the toes of the Amarr Logi, but some kind of bonus to fitting and using drop uplinks could be pretty cool.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2035	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:11:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Give them a bonus to number of REs carried per stack and watch their use skyrocket A mobility bonus that is more general and % based would be an improvement over the current one. If keeping exclusively to the mobility theme a two-pronged bonus with one giving a base passive increase to mobility in the vein of the Dropsuit Command mobility skill (is it called biotics now?) and the other granting a 5-10% buff per level for equipped biotics mods. Yes this could make them run quite fast and quite far but with the SP and fittings costs of the mobility mods I don't think it would be OP (besides the % buff can be tweaked to scale properly in light of on field data). Alternately they could get a bonus to explosive damage (if the tagging system permits that, which I think it does in light of the heavy bonus) giving them the ability to employ Prox, Swarms, MD, RE, Locus/AV nades, etc more effectively than other suits which would create an interesting and unique niche for them but the degree of buff would need to be carefully considered to maintain proper balance. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Ace Starburst Tom Cruise Thetan Army 108	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:18:00 - [12] - Quote Make them blow up when killed or critically hit in their power pack. Amarr Ackbarr!
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3130	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:38:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Just going to preface this with I have experience running all the scout suits. The Amarr scout performs well in comparison to 1.7 and previous builds, but does not have the capabilities of the Gal or Cal scout in the current build. The Amarr scout does not have a terrible bonus, but it is a supporting bonus, not a primary bonus. The Gal and Cal scouts are likely the go to suits, because of the obvious and some not so obvious bonuses to these suits. The scan range is great and they have complementary bonuses. Minmatar scoutsGÇª a lot of us like Knives The hacking bonus is a great compliment to any scout. What I have found is that the Amarr scout can be fit out very nicely. The basic stats are almost entirely better than the other scouts, with the exception of movement. The stamina bonus allows for fitting a Rep and is actually good over the long haul. You will not be the first scout to the Objective but you will likely be the one hacking it if the Reds get to it first. Amarr are easy to armour up, but so are the Gal, and they get two useful bonuses and a 3 Rep. Increase the base Armour of the Amarr scout to be inline with an Enhanced Plate Fix Armour Plates so they are not the easiest to fit for the greatest bonus (this is for overall balance) Decrease the Gal scout Rep to 2 (and I say this as a Gal scout user, and a player who prefers buff over nerf) Add a Primary Bonus to the Amarr Scout. (See below) Better Bonus options: Fitting bonus to Ferroscale Armour (allows for more higher tier gear) Fitting bonus to Laser Weapons (allows for higher tier gear and more EWAR mods) Bonus to recharge rate of Cloak (At Proto may be an issue, as you can virtually perm cloak as it is) Efficacy bonus to Damage Mods ( Perhaps to assaulty but hey we are here to kill each other right?) Other suggestions in this thread are also nice. Though I am leery of a 10% efficacy bonus to Biotics, as it is potentially a triple bonus. Also Kins are a 1% bonus on the skill tree and to give a 15% efficacy bonus may be a bit high, but I have not run the math (if anyone has please post it). KRRROOOOOOM
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2361	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:17:00 - [14] - Quote See my armor tweak here in the armor modules thread. I think, depending on how you'd make the kincat mods work, you could potentially get them to have about the same or more eHP than gal scouts and be faster than them.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 322	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:08:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Amarr race has one thing in commong. Damage reduction, high EHP, and a total tank system. I think the Amarr scout should have a 3% damage reduction from armor effective weapons per level. At 15% they become the true brick tank scouts as they should likely be. Take away the current bonus. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2042	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:21:00 - [16] - Quote This is actually a pretty interesting dilemma that I haven't thought about much so far, but I do recognize that it is an issue. In Dust the Amarr typically have the best endurance out of suits in the same class. How do you guys feel about a bonus to Biotics in general? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 192	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:33:00 - [17] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Amarr scouts aren't used for 2 reasons. 1) While the Amarr scout has the most base HP out of all the scouts, armor-based suits require an armor repairer to be successful. The Gallente scout has a builtin armor repairer, which means it doesn't need to use a low slot for an armor repairer, allowing the Gallente scout to stack more HP, or other modules. Solution: The Amarr scout needs something that the Gallente scout doesn't have. 2) The bonus is useless. Even with the stamina bonus, other scouts can cover more distance in a shorter time; someone had a thread and graph about it, but I can't find it, you guys should have already seen it if you were truly paying attention to feedback so I will assume you already saw it. Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. Perhaps another cloak bonus, like cloak recharge rate or duration. Perhaps 2 racial bonuses like the Minmatar one. ^This^ The Gallente Scout is too good. No need to use an Amar Scout. Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 763	Posted - 2014.05.18 07:18:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Why Brick-Tank a Scout? * The brick-tanked Scout is presently more appealing to "slayers" than the current Assault suits. * The Scout remains highly mobile while tanked, and there isn't much drawback to stacking plates. * Brick tanking is presently more effective than shield tanking. * HMG heavies are abundant, and they tend to deal alot of damage before dying. Why Not Go Amarr Scout? * Amarr Scout and Gallente Scout are similar, and both are well-suited for brick tanking. * GalScout passive armor rep appeals to the brick tanker. * GalScout profile permits it to beat most scans with only one dampener (when cloaked). * GalScout perks were deemed slightly better, so most folks opted against Amarr. What Should Amarr Do Best? * The Amarr Scout should be better at brick-tanking than any other Scout. How to Fix Amarr's Relative Popularity? * Make Assault Suits better "slayers" than Scout Suits (to shrink GalScout population). * Give the Gallente Scout's passive armor repair perk to the Amarr Scout. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Balamob SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 28	Posted - 2014.05.18 07:54:00 - [19] - Quote AMARR SCOUTS SHOULD GET A REDUCTION TO SPEED PENALY OF ARMOR PLATES...... This way they can wear hevy EHP, a redution of 10%-15% to the armor penaalty. Being a Templar is a vow for life.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 441	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:31:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? First of all, the stamina bonus is laughable. All other bonuses equal complex modules, why doesn't this one? I like the diversity of the Amarr scout. It's basically the terminator - Tough and with extremely high stamina. Focus on that aspect. Maybe give it more armor tanking capability. I'm not in favor of a speed bonus, but giving it a bonus of reducing plate speed penalties would fit this suit. It's basically a cloaked light Assault, anyway. Make it capable of running endlessly and unimpeded, even one the largest maps and with complex plates. This also ties in nicely into the Amarr "hard to use" mentality: Running makes you vulnerable in this game, by preventing you from reloading or firing. And this suit is the slowest scout, so it needs to run all the time. It can't run away, in contrast to other scouts, or play hid and seek much. That's why it should have bigger armor.

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13485	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:34:00 - [21] - Quote Sticky? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 520	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:00:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Before the release of the Scouts there were several threadnoughts on the issue that the Amarr Scout was going to underperform. Apparently nobody cared to read them. The Amarr Scout: - Has less tank than a GalScout (because it needs to sacrifice a slot for reps where the GalScout has that in-built). - Is slower than a GalScout when fitted for comparable eHP as a GalScout. - Doesn't receive a racial bonus. (The current one is really not a factor in game.) There is literally nothing of relevance the Amarr Scout is better at than any other scout. Personally, my favorite way out of this situation is drastically reducing the maximum duration of cloaks to 5 seconds at STD and 10 seconds at PRO while keeping a 60 seconds recharge time. This means as a Scout you can't be invisible "by default" but will have to think about when you are going to use the cloak. Then grant the Amarr Scout a 10% bonus per level to recharge speed (for a 33% reduction in cooldown at lvl 5, equals to 15 second less time between activations) to make it the invisibility specialist. After that roles would go like this: - Caldari Scout can pick up everyone on his radar, even if they see him too. - Gallente Scout can't be detected by scanning, but can't scan very well himself. - Minmatar Scout avoids detection by running from your line of sight very quickly. (The faster you are, the less time you spend in places where people may look.) - Amarr Scout avoids detection by not being visible to the eye, even if he does appear on other people's minimap while uncloaked.
Grimmiers 549	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:06:00 - [23] - Quote If shooting your gun increased db you could've given the amarr a built in silencer for their guns.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1072	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:17:00 - [24] - Quote All scouts need work, not just Amarr. Something needs to be done with HP totals, no Scout should exceed 500HP yet Caldari hit 600, Matari 700, and with the lows GalAmarr hit 800hp on damn LIGHT suits, they needs to be a cap on tanking it's that simple. As for Amarr bonus, if the game wasn't full of FoTm crutch chasers then you'd see the suit being used more. 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
Glyd Path Nec Tributis 48	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:33:00 - [25] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: Two things give bonus to Sniper Rifle. New idea make the amarr scout scan like a vehicle with a ring of circles coming out of it like a stone dropped in water to x amount of feet. A boosted Passive scan that makes them glow gold like a glorious angelic being. Long Live the Empress! Sniper rifle is Caldari, doesn't really make sense. Passive scan precision is already taken by Caldari. The scan ring thing gave me an idea though; what if it emanated a ring like you describe, but the ring was to buff nearby friendlies, and to debuff enemies? would make a great squad asset. The buffs to friendlies could be a decrease in signature profile, and fire rate increase, and the opposite for eneimes. Wrong game, dude. Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 225	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:51:00 - [26] - Quote Lot of sage comments in here already, so I'll just be pithy. ;) Amarr Scout problems: - Very similar to Gal Scout, but Gal Scout is generally better (better bonuses, 3hp regen, faster) - Amarr Scout bonus inherently worthless (in that a single Cardiac Regulator mod is so good at what it does) My preferred solutions: - A buff to its ability to armor tank (Possibly alongside a nerf to all other Scout's ability to armor tank.) - A buff to its use of Cloaks (Many are advocating faster Cloak regen, but I feel a rule breaking Shimmer reduction is more interesting.) Supporting Kevall Longstride, CEO of DUST University, for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13486	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:16:00 - [27] - Quote The problem with the Amarr scout is that it's basically outperformed in every meaningful way by the Gallente scout. They're too similar. I would suggest changing the slot layout to 2/5 and giving it a bonus a lot more useful than stamina. Stamina is already plentiful on a scout, and for some unknown reason Minmatar suits received a huge stamina regen buff in 1.8 meaning that they can contend with the Amarr scout even if more scout stamina was a useful perk. The relative value of the bonus is very low, even if it were useful. The Gallente scout receives bonuses equivalent to a complex profile dampener and a basic range extender, and has a built in enhanced repairer. The Caldari scout receives bonuses equivalent to a complex precision enhancer (plus a little bit more) and a basic range extender, and has by far the best shield regen in the game. The Minmatar scout has that much stamina built in, and then has bonuses equivalent to a codebreaker and multiple damage mods, although these are a little more specialised. The Amarr scout receives a bonus equivalent to a single basic cardiac regulator. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 225	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:41:00 - [28] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Amarr scouts aren't used for 2 reasons. 1) While the Amarr scout has the most base HP out of all the scouts, armor-based suits require an armor repairer to be successful. The Gallente scout has a builtin armor repairer, which means it doesn't need to use a low slot for an armor repairer, allowing the Gallente scout to stack more HP, or other modules. Solution: The Amarr scout needs something that the Gallente scout doesn't have. 2) The bonus is useless. Even with the stamina bonus, other scouts can cover more distance in a shorter time; someone had a thread and graph about it, but I can't find it, you guys should have already seen it if you were truly paying attention to feedback so I will assume you already saw it. Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. Perhaps another cloak bonus, like cloak recharge rate or duration. Perhaps 2 racial bonuses like the Minmatar one. Found it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=148070 ;) Supporting Kevall Longstride, CEO of DUST University, for CPM1
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:31:00 - [29] - Quote Amarr scout bonus = decrease armor plates speed penalties by 1% per lvl. Amarr scout on lvl 5 will have 5% reduction of penalties from armor plates. Like that Scout gk.0 with 3 complex plates will have speed of 4.86, and scout ak.0 with the same 3 complex plates will have speed of 4.96 With 2 complex plates gk.0 GÇô 5.15. ak.0 GÇô 5.23. Same will be with adv plates. Amarr scout can have one base and one adv plate with no speed reduction: the totaly have 5% speed reduction and the bonus is 5% so the result is 0% speed reduction. So we got the armored Amarr scout ??? I believe I am not very clear with that and I am sorry not to be able to explain it more clear. My mind currently is blurred from the heat on the beach :) cheers
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2422	Posted - 2014.05.18 15:23:00 - [30] - Quote The problem with the Amarr Scout is that everyone got a dropsuit command SP refund. The Amarr Scout is the Human/Mario of Scouts. It has nothing it excels at but has the slot layout geared to focus on anything it wants. It won't have the scan range of the Caldari or Gallente. It won't dampen as well as Gallente. It won't get the precision of Caldari. I can't run as fast as a Minmatar (Amarr Stamina vs Minmatar Regeneration. Minmatar Wins all races), and it can't Hack as fast as the Minmatar either. But it has more fitting flexibility. You can use Codebreaker, Range Amplifiers, Precision Enhancers, and Profile Dampeners to outperform 2 other suits in any field. If we didn't get the Dropsuit Command refund then people that had never skilled into Scouts would have had to start from scratch. The Amarr's ability to cover the range of Scoutly-duties would have made it an excellent choice. But! We all could just take whatever suit we wanted and brought it up to lvl5. Without "endgame" skills of Dropsuit Upgrades, Engineering, and Electronics, the Scout suits are a very, very difficult suit to build up from. The 1.8 SP refund let people get around this issue of slowly building up their suit and let them jump into a Scout suit with all their skill bonuses. For those new guys and non-vets who are tight on SP. The Amarr Scout is one of the best choices out there. Lets look at what roles the scout preforms. Speed Hacking Assassination Scouting (Passive Scans or visuals) Covert Uplink Deployment Speed Hacking is taken by the Minmatar Scout. Hands down. Gallente comes is second place with Amarr a near 3rd. Assassination. I'd say Gallente Scouts are the best at this with Minmatar in second and Caldari 3rd and Amarr in last. The Gallente with their lowered profile has the best chance of weaving through the enemy lines, getting close to a target, and using a Shotgun to pick people off. The Minmatar use their greater speed to run through a crowd and either take people out with knives or shotgun or REs The Caldari would be less electronically stealthy but more oriented to weaving between people because you know exactly where all of them are. Get in close and use a shotgun or Remote Explosives. The Amarr just do not cut it as assassins. They could dedicate more low slots to replicate the speed, profile, or scan range of the other suits but they can't match it. The Caldari and Gallente are tied in this respect. The Amarr in third place and the Minmatar in last. The Gallente will be better at the classic style of using visuals to determine the status of an area while Caldari have the best tools to do it electronically. Still the Caldari won't be able to pick up all Scout suits and if they're cloaked the Gallente can't see them either. But Gallente can get a higher range than Caldari because they have more low slots. It's a trade off of accuracy versus range in this regard. The Amarr come next, IMO, because range amplification will be better suited to when you don't have Caldari precision bonus. Last is Covert Uplink Deployment. Gallente are the stealthiest, Minmatar are the quickest, Caldari can see someone coming and avoid them. . . and Amarr have nothing. The other 3 can use their innate suit bonuses to get into a good location for uplinks, but the Amarr has nothing innate about it that leads to uplink deployment other then Uplinks have a high fitting cost. Going behind enemy lines to set up an offensive has been part of the Scout's in-game description for a long time. I think now would be the time to actually give them a bonus to this playstyle. Reducing the Scan Profile on Uplinks deployed by an Amarr Scout would be an amazing ability. All Scouts have 2 bonuses. Minmatar have Nova Knives and Hacking. Gallente have Scan Range and Scan Profile. Caldari have Scan Range and Scan Precision. The Amarr only have Stamina. I really think filing in the last spot of a Scout's description would give them a place in competitive play. They can use the slot layout and fitting advantages that they have to mimic other scout's forte while also providing a needed role on the battlefield. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia

Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1054	Posted - 2014.05.18 15:51:00 - [31] - Quote I have previously played the amarr scout quite extensively, I also created some charts that were linked previously (thanks for linking that by the way). Honestly the Amarr scout just doesn't have a role, that is the biggest issue. Right now you have: Gallente : 2 ewar bonuses (range and dampening) with built in reps Caldari : 2 ewar bonuses (range and precision) with amazing shield recharge Minmatar : 2 stealthy bonuses (suit innate hack bonus and per level hack bonus) an assassination bonus (Nova knife damage) and insane stamina recharge along with great speed Amarr : stamina bonus that doesn't bring it up to speed with the other suits base performance You can see the roles from there Gallente: stealthy scout/assault hybrid meant that is self sufficient (inate armor reps) Caldari : intel gathering/scout hunter Minmatar : assassination, quick hacks, fastest to any point on the map Amarr: ........... How would I improve it? I really can't answer that. There is not a lot of ewar in Dust 514, and there is no plans for additional mechanics, so there is no role to fill for it. I mean you could try to make it a better assault, but it is already a great assault (not as good as the gallente) as long as you do not use amarr weaponry. Adding HP just makes it a better assault, lessening armor penalty also just makes it a better assault. Honestly as long as the game mechanics stay limited, there really is no need for the amarr scout other than for racial symmetry. Fixing swarms
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 772	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:00:00 - [32] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Reducing the Scan Profile on Uplinks deployed by an Amarr Scout would be an amazing ability. Celus Ivara wrote: A buff to its ability to armor tank (Possibly alongside a nerf to all other Scout's ability to armor tank.) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2424	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:26:00 - [33] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: If you: Increase amarr scouts uplink capability - you marginalize the amarr logi, a suit with one use Increase the armor tanking capabilities - you marginalize the all assault suits This makes a good point. A very real problem here is the Assault and Logistic bonuses. Logistics need their bonuses that have have but also need a small bonus to all other equipment. The current design is detrimental to the Support (aka "Logibro") play-style. I means you need to have more Logistics suits on the field to cover what would have been the job of a single player last patch. Assault suits are incredibly limited by their bonuses being restricted to their racial weapons. It took away customization to force them into using their racial weapons. The bonuses need to reflect the suit's play-style rather than the weapons attached. You won't find a balance to scout's brick tanking as long as the Logistics and Assaults are in the place they are in now. +1 slot to Amarr Assault. Fix the bonuses to help any weapon they choose. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 96	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:01:00 - [34] - Quote The big issue is the fact they are out shined by Gal scouts. I posted I-Shayz-I's idea in the cloak thread for fixing this. Change the Galente and Caldari scout bonuses to bonuses that affect the relevant modules, forcing them to use those modules to benefit from the bonus. Amarr scouts would still need another bonus though. I love the stealthy uplink suggestion, however that would kind of tread on the toes of logi suits. I reckon a bonus to cloak duration would be best. This would fit with the amarr trait of persistence, that is also present in the stamina bonus.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2147	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:34:00 - [35] - Quote Give them +1 low slot and -1 high slot at all tiers. This particular slot layout would be very appreciated for most specialized classes. And eliminate the scan range bonus on caldari and gallente scouts (not precision/dampening, only range) PSN: ogamega I'm here to bla bla bla...
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2656	Posted - 2014.05.18 20:58:00 - [36] - Quote I wouldn't mind a scrambler pistol related bonus.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3137	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:53:00 - [37] - Quote This is a secondary thought that would improve the existing Amarr bonus, but may cause problems because it was removed before. Stamina limit on jumping currently functions as a percentage, you can get three jumps at full stamina regardless of how much you have. What would be the impact of removing the percentage and replacing it with a numerical value? The value would need to be hammered out by more math minded folks (MathpiaGÇª looking at you) Edit: Not saying this would fix the Amarr scout completely but it would place more value on the existing bonus. KRRROOOOOOM
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 637	Posted - 2014.05.18 22:11:00 - [38] - Quote Do the same thing you did to make the amarr Logi stand out when you gave that suit a sidearm. Give the Amarr the Black Eagle bonus of 2 light weapons and take away 1 equipment slot. YouTube
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1082	Posted - 2014.05.19 00:38:00 - [39] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. I give this post the Alldin Kan seal of approval. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
Faquira Bleuetta The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 394	Posted - 2014.05.19 01:24:00 - [40] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. I give this post the Alldin Kan seal of approval. +1

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 801	Posted - 2014.05.19 01:51:00 - [41] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. I give this post the Alldin Kan seal of approval. Theoretical Progression: Amarr Speedster Scout w/Kage Bonus 07.42 m/s - Base Sprint Speed 08.82 m/s - Cmp KinCat @ +18.90% = (+12.00%)(+5%)(+50%) 10.27 m/s - Cmp KinCat @ +16.44% = (+10.44%)(+5%)(+50%) 11.37 m/s - Cmp KinCat @ +10.77% = (+6.84%)(+5%)(+50%) 11.97 m/s - Cmp KinCat @ +05.29% = (+3.36%)(+5%)(+50%) CCP wrote: [Paraphrased] Current dropsuit top speeds at around 11 m/s represent the absolute maximum we can support on the current engine. Anything faster breaks hit detection. Maybe +5% per level instead of +10%? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 296	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:08:00 - [42] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All amarr suits should have zero movement penalty from armor honestly
Prophet Endokush The Church Of Endokush 10	Posted - 2014.05.19 04:44:00 - [43] - Quote I was excited about amarr scouts when they first came out because I thought the racial bonus was to all of the juices and not just stamina. I wanted to build a ridiculous melee fit with cardiac regulators, kin cats, and the blue punch juice. When I then looked at the bonus, it was just stamina regen which was very unappealing. BIOTICS BONUS!
Night 5talker 514 Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 267	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:51:00 - [44] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: Two things give bonus to Sniper Rifle. New idea make the amarr scout scan like a vehicle with a ring of circles coming out of it like a stone dropped in water to x amount of feet. A boosted Passive scan that makes them glow gold like a glorious angelic being. Long Live the Empress! Sniper rifle is Caldari, doesn't really make sense. Passive scan precision is already taken by Caldari. The scan ring thing gave me an idea though; what if it emanated a ring like you describe, but the ring was to buff nearby friendlies, and to debuff enemies? would make a great squad asset. The buffs to friendlies could be a decrease in signature profile, and fire rate increase, and the opposite for eneimes. this could come in later, but would be like the tech 2 command ships in EVE. Perhaps a tech 2 dropsuit that has skills like in eve that impact the leadership modules you'd have to fit to it. Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel
Night 5talker 514 Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 267	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:03:00 - [45] - Quote I would say a two tiered approach could be good, like the minmitar frame. 1. A % increase to movement speed per level or a % increase to efficacy of biotics modules per level. 2. A % bonus to scrambler pistol rate of fire per level, bringing it back to what it was pre ninja nerf (as the amarr knives are not in the game yet). I still think with it being an armour dependent scout it should still have massive natural stamina. Prior to that ninja nerf I was going to skill into amarr scout and purely use sidearms on it, but sadly that didn't seem as viable. So I didn't skill into scrambler pistols and my wolfmans are all collecting dust (no pun intended). As an Amarr proto scout user I reckon that the above bonuses with a large natural stamina level would help immensely to get others using it. Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3339	Posted - 2014.05.19 14:14:00 - [46] - Quote Rattati, while I appreciate that the best use of what limited resources CCP has given you is to fix small things that have larger impacts, I think that GÇ£fixingGÇ¥ the Amarr scout is not a single process. (IGÇÖm about to make another thread to expand on this, so IGÇÖll cut to the chase) As one of the few hardcore Amarr loyalists left on the forums, IGÇÖm honor bound to take a moment to harp on what has been noted already, we damn well told CCP months ago that this would happen. There were literally hundreds of posts on dozens of threads about this. My favorite: Aero had a thread where he basically challenged all comers to build an Amarr scout suit fitting that he couldnGÇÖt make better by using the Gallente scout. Nobody could! Anyway, my main point: You canGÇÖt (or at least shouldnGÇÖt) fix the Amarr scout just in the context of your analysis that itGÇÖs the least used. ThatGÇÖs not news to anyone, and would not have been surprising if you told us that 3 months ago. We all know it sucks. The slots are OK but the bonus is crap and like a lot of the Amarr suits, the improved base stats donGÇÖt always compensate for the bonuses or slot counts. So fix the Amarr scout while fixing GÇ£allGÇ¥ scouts. Shooting while cloaked is obviously a bug, IGÇÖll ignore that. So the main problem: Brick tanked scouts. A simple way this could potentially be done is a variation of something already mentioned. DeathwindRising wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All amarr suits should have zero movement penalty from armor honestly I actually propose the opposite. While I think making this a feature of, say, the Amarr Commando (or even assault) would actually be a brilliant idea, I donGÇÖt think itGÇÖs right for any scout, even the Amarr. It would only make the issue of brick tanked scouts worse. Instead, give all scout suits a penalty to armor modules. Instead of HP, IGÇÖd suggest a larger movement penalty. It makes sense from a physics standpoint: If you put 130 pts of armor on a sentinel frame, itGÇÖs gonna shrug it off, but have you seen the Gallente ~~stripper~~ scout suit? It should be heavily weighed down by that much plating. (Another alternative would be to simply make it so that scouts canGÇÖt fit standard plates at all, only reactive/ferroscale but that opens up a whole other discussion. ..) You could play with the numbers, but just to spitball, letGÇÖs say the movement penalty for armor plates is 50% higher when placed on a scout suit. Now, a complex plate gives you a 7.5% movement penalty. You could also make a stacking penalty on top of it to discourage straight up max tanking. How does this fix the Amarr scout? Everyone sort of agreed that it was supposed to be the light assault suit, but the Gallente is just better at it. So, to bring it in line with the other scouts and give it itGÇÖs intended role, you make the aforementioned penalties to armor either not apply to the Amarr scout, or perhaps a better way would be to make it a second bonus, such that at level 5 the penalties are pretty much gone. Now, the other scouts go back to being GÇ£lightGÇ¥ suits, Caldari as ewar, Gallente as stealth hunters, and Minmatar as speedy hackers/flankers. The Amarr becomes the light assault, a hybrid suit that is faster than the assault but not as durable and lacks the DPS bonus. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1248	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:10:00 - [47] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Rattati, while I appreciate that the best use of what limited resources CCP has given you is to fix small things that have larger impacts, I think that GÇ£fixingGÇ¥ the Amarr scout is not a single process. (IGÇÖm about to make another thread to expand on this, so IGÇÖll cut to the chase) As one of the few hardcore Amarr loyalists left on the forums, IGÇÖm honor bound to take a moment to harp on what has been noted already, we damn well told CCP months ago that this would happen. There were literally hundreds of posts on dozens of threads about this. My favorite: Aero had a thread where he basically challenged all comers to build an Amarr scout suit fitting that he couldnGÇÖt make better by using the Gallente scout. Nobody could! Anyway, my main point: You canGÇÖt (or at least shouldnGÇÖt) fix the Amarr scout just in the context of your analysis that itGÇÖs the least used. ThatGÇÖs not news to anyone, and would not have been surprising if you told us that 3 months ago. We all know it sucks. The slots are OK but the bonus is crap and like a lot of the Amarr suits, the improved base stats donGÇÖt always compensate for the bonuses or slot counts. So fix the Amarr scout while fixing GÇ£allGÇ¥ scouts. Shooting while cloaked is obviously a bug, IGÇÖll ignore that. So the main problem: Brick tanked scouts. A simple way this could potentially be done is a variation of something already mentioned. DeathwindRising wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All amarr suits should have zero movement penalty from armor honestly I actually propose the opposite. While I think making this a feature of, say, the Amarr Commando (or even assault) would actually be a brilliant idea, I donGÇÖt think itGÇÖs right for any scout, even the Amarr. It would only make the issue of brick tanked scouts worse. Instead, give all scout suits a penalty to armor modules. Instead of HP, IGÇÖd suggest a larger movement penalty. It makes sense from a physics standpoint: If you put 130 pts of armor on a sentinel frame, itGÇÖs gonna shrug it off, but have you seen the Gallente ~~stripper~~ scout suit? It should be heavily weighed down by that much plating. (Another alternative would be to simply make it so that scouts canGÇÖt fit standard plates at all, only reactive/ferroscale but that opens up a whole other discussion. ..) You could play with the numbers, but just to spitball, letGÇÖs say the movement penalty for armor plates is 50% higher when placed on a scout suit. Now, a complex plate gives you a 7.5% movement penalty. You could also make a stacking penalty on top of it to discourage straight up max tanking. How does this fix the Amarr scout? Everyone sort of agreed that it was supposed to be the light assault suit, but the Gallente is just better at it. So, to bring it in line with the other scouts and give it itGÇÖs intended role, you make the aforementioned penalties to armor either not apply to the Amarr scout, or perhaps a better way would be to make it a second bonus, such that at level 5 the penalties are pretty much gone. Now, the other scouts go back to being GÇ£lightGÇ¥ suits, Caldari as ewar, Gallente as stealth hunters, and Minmatar as speedy hackers/flankers. The Amarr becomes the light assault, a hybrid suit that is faster than the assault but not as durable and lacks the DPS bonus. Thanks for that. I actually didn't read all feedback from months ago, so all the told you so's in the world can't help me now. We didn't react to that feedback and that's that. We will try to do better. And agree, we can't "fix" Amarr scouts, let's fix scouts in general first. Now, does it boil down to something simple like this? Armor plate scouts - higher speed penalty on normal plates. Ferroscale should be the go to plate option (given that we improve them a bit) or just rep modules. I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Shield tanked scouts - extender stacking increases scan profile - again, encourage use of rechargers and energizers over stacking. Let me know if I am way off base "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 301	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:15:00 - [48] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Rattati, while I appreciate that the best use of what limited resources CCP has given you is to fix small things that have larger impacts, I think that GÇ£fixingGÇ¥ the Amarr scout is not a single process. (IGÇÖm about to make another thread to expand on this, so IGÇÖll cut to the chase) As one of the few hardcore Amarr loyalists left on the forums, IGÇÖm honor bound to take a moment to harp on what has been noted already, we damn well told CCP months ago that this would happen. There were literally hundreds of posts on dozens of threads about this. My favorite: Aero had a thread where he basically challenged all comers to build an Amarr scout suit fitting that he couldnGÇÖt make better by using the Gallente scout. Nobody could! Anyway, my main point: You canGÇÖt (or at least shouldnGÇÖt) fix the Amarr scout just in the context of your analysis that itGÇÖs the least used. ThatGÇÖs not news to anyone, and would not have been surprising if you told us that 3 months ago. We all know it sucks. The slots are OK but the bonus is crap and like a lot of the Amarr suits, the improved base stats donGÇÖt always compensate for the bonuses or slot counts. So fix the Amarr scout while fixing GÇ£allGÇ¥ scouts. Shooting while cloaked is obviously a bug, IGÇÖll ignore that. So the main problem: Brick tanked scouts. A simple way this could potentially be done is a variation of something already mentioned. DeathwindRising wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All amarr suits should have zero movement penalty from armor honestly I actually propose the opposite. While I think making this a feature of, say, the Amarr Commando (or even assault) would actually be a brilliant idea, I donGÇÖt think itGÇÖs right for any scout, even the Amarr. It would only make the issue of brick tanked scouts worse. Instead, give all scout suits a penalty to armor modules. Instead of HP, IGÇÖd suggest a larger movement penalty. It makes sense from a physics standpoint: If you put 130 pts of armor on a sentinel frame, itGÇÖs gonna shrug it off, but have you seen the Gallente ~~stripper~~ scout suit? It should be heavily weighed down by that much plating. (Another alternative would be to simply make it so that scouts canGÇÖt fit standard plates at all, only reactive/ferroscale but that opens up a whole other discussion. ..) You could play with the numbers, but just to spitball, letGÇÖs say the movement penalty for armor plates is 50% higher when placed on a scout suit. Now, a complex plate gives you a 7.5% movement penalty. You could also make a stacking penalty on top of it to discourage straight up max tanking. How does this fix the Amarr scout? Everyone sort of agreed that it was supposed to be the light assault suit, but the Gallente is just better at it. So, to bring it in line with the other scouts and give it itGÇÖs intended role, you make the aforementioned penalties to armor either not apply to the Amarr scout, or perhaps a better way would be to make it a second bonus, such that at level 5 the penalties are pretty much gone. Now, the other scouts go back to being GÇ£lightGÇ¥ suits, Caldari as ewar, Gallente as stealth hunters, and Minmatar as speedy hackers/flankers. The Amarr becomes the light assault, a hybrid suit that is faster than the assault but not as durable and lacks the DPS bonus. one of the devs thought itd be interesting if plates were restricted to suit size. so light suits can only use basic plates, while medium suit could basic and enhanced plates while heavies could use anything. then let amarr bonus be that they can use any plate they like on their suits or that they can use plates one "size" up
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2367	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:20:00 - [49] - Quote What about a 5% fitting cost reduction and 5% efficacy bonus to electronics modules per level. It still wouldn't beat a gallente damper, but could have the best combined range and precision after caldari and be able to hide from most stuff with an all sensor fit.
M Zwei Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 30	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:28:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Armor plate scouts - higher speed penalty on normal plates. maybe we can borrow the idea from EVE, big plate on small ship (400mm plate on frigate) slow down the acceleration. plate on scout suit should be a much more speed penalty than that of medium or heavy


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1248	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:46:00 - [51] - Quote That would be the simplest way, but I am not sure that the system currently allows for the suit size to dictate module bonuses. I will ask Wolfman tomorrow. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 990	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:50:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Now, does it boil down to something simple like this? Armor plate scouts - higher speed penalty on normal plates. Ferroscale should be the go to plate option (given that we improve them a bit) or just rep modules. I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Shield tanked scouts - extender stacking increases scan profile - again, encourage use of rechargers and energizers over stacking. Let me know if I am way off base That does seem to be the jist of it, and it seems like a nice logical way solve the whole bricked tanked scout thing - ship it
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 990	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:53:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: That would be the simplest way, but I am not sure that the system currently allows for the suit size to dictate module bonuses. I will ask Wolfman tomorrow. Perhaps adding a negative role bonus to the light suits might be the way to go (similar to the old logi LAV negative damage bonus) - not as 'sexy' perhaps, but it'll get the job done. EDIT: Negative as in bad, not negative as in less than zero - although the resulting speed boost from armour plates might be interesting (if horribly broken)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3341	Posted - 2014.05.19 17:35:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for that. I actually didn't read all feedback from months ago, so all the told you so's in the world can't help me now. We didn't react to that feedback and that's that. We will try to do better. And agree, we can't "fix" Amarr scouts, let's fix scouts in general first. Now, does it boil down to something simple like this? Armor plate scouts - higher speed penalty on normal plates. Ferroscale should be the go to plate option (given that we improve them a bit) or just rep modules. I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Shield tanked scouts - extender stacking increases scan profile - again, encourage use of rechargers and energizers over stacking. Let me know if I am way off base No worries, sorry about the rant. Gotta vent some about Dust here and there. Obviously you're just the poor guy sent in to clean up the mess.I encourage you to read this, at least the first part. I think that if you 'fixed' ferroscale plates and made it so that scouts could only use those and not "regular" plates that could work pretty well. As I mentioned in the previous post I didn't get into that because it was long enough already. But the nice thing about that type of module segregation is you could more easily use those to balance scouts without messing up sentinels, for example. For the Amarr scout, you should give them an HP bonus for ferroscales in addition to the stamina bonus. Someone suggested allowing them to be an exception and use regular plates, that might work too, but I would guess the bonus would be easier to adjust/balance. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 638	Posted - 2014.05.19 19:09:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Reactive plates are actually really good. The only problem is that the enhanced is garbage, not enough bonus to use over the basic, the complex it too much better. Same problem as the enhanced shield extender. If the enhanced was 2hp/s and the complex was 3 it woukd make the whole line more attractive. YouTube
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 776	Posted - 2014.05.19 19:17:00 - [56] - Quote Ahh finally. After the countless pages and pages of posts telling you guys that you done did goof up it still got release and in fact I don't believe we ever got a blue tag in any of the 10+ page threads. Welp now that you want our feedback months later. There is no bonus that you could give it that would make the suit even just as desirable as Gallente. There needs to be a lot change either 2-5 or 1-5 The current bonus is just as laughable as the Caldari assault, at least theirs can't be mitigated by militia module Let me give you some scenarios and maybe you might be able to fathom my frustration with you guys. There's me, at the start of a skirmish running to cut of a group of people moving to an objective when I get shotgunned in the back by a Scout C-1/Series. Now how do you think that happened? Because despite my complex profile dampener and my complex kinetic catalyzer the Caldari scout is still faster and can passive scan me while damped and cloaked from 50+ meters away. I might as well give up at that point because you can't fight what you can't see, is faster than you and all they do is hunt you down. The suit itself can't compete, it's up to the users of the suit to just be significantly better than whoever they're facing. I'm giving you a a week and a half to announce something about the Amarr scout, if I hear nothing I'm just speccing a different scout. TDBS "Does Krin want his gun back?" - sub random nub
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 776	Posted - 2014.05.19 19:19:00 - [57] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Reactive plates are actually really good. The only problem is that the enhanced is garbage, not enough bonus to use over the basic, the complex it too much better. Same problem as the enhanced shield extender. If the enhanced was 2hp/s and the complex was 3 it woukd make the whole line more attractive. The complex are bad too. They need more HP and rep or cost half as much to fit. They're laughable. TDBS "Does Krin want his gun back?" - sub random nub
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 101	Posted - 2014.05.19 19:27:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: That would be the simplest way, but I am not sure that the system currently allows for the suit size to dictate module bonuses. I will ask Wolfman tomorrow. I believe before 1.8 Amarr logis got a bonus to repair modules. This is an example of the suit you wear affecting the modules attached to it. So I would be surprised if this can't be done. Though you never know about the internal workings of these things.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3347	Posted - 2014.05.19 19:33:00 - [59] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That would be the simplest way, but I am not sure that the system currently allows for the suit size to dictate module bonuses. I will ask Wolfman tomorrow. I believe before 1.8 Amarr logis got a bonus to repair modules. This is an example of the suit you wear affecting the modules attached to it. So I would be surprised if this can't be done. Though you never know about the internal workings of these things. He's talking about variable bonuses(actually penalties in this case) based on suit size, not a bonus to an individual module. The latter are everywhere. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 15	Posted - 2014.05.19 19:38:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: That would be the simplest way, but I am not sure that the system currently allows for the suit size to dictate module bonuses. I will ask Wolfman tomorrow. If it's in the SDE I believe it can be done. efficacy bonus added to racial bonuses of all suits can't be done? Using the racial bonus a lot of things can be done for suit size because it is already being done. scout armor plate efficacy bonus 0 logi armor plate efficacy bonus 2% per level assault armor plate efficacy bonus 3% per level commando armor plate efficacy bonus 4% per level sentinel armor plate efficacy bonus 5% per level change plate values to balance could do the same for cpu/pg of plates or near anything related to armor plates to do endless combinations.

THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 777	Posted - 2014.05.19 19:44:00 - [61] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That would be the simplest way, but I am not sure that the system currently allows for the suit size to dictate module bonuses. I will ask Wolfman tomorrow. I believe before 1.8 Amarr logis got a bonus to repair modules. This is an example of the suit you wear affecting the modules attached to it. So I would be surprised if this can't be done. Though you never know about the internal workings of these things. It actually was just a modifier on the suit if I recall correctly. TDBS "Does Krin want his gun back?" - sub random nub
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 101	Posted - 2014.05.19 20:40:00 - [62] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: It actually was just a modifier on the suit if I recall correctly. I believe there was a logi suit bonus to repair and an Amarr suit repair module bonus. Didn't Cal logis have a bonus to shield extanders? I can't think at the moment of other examples of the suit you wear affecting the modules rather than the equipment or weapons. I know these bonuses required a skill before they came into effect but couldn't you effectively give everyone the equivalent of a suit skill for all light and scout suits that increase plate movement penalty by 200% for example. Not saying I know the best way to do this, just that it seems possible.
Vera Quorum The Brothers Quorum et al. 0	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:16:00 - [63] - Quote I find myself struggling to fit anything decent alongside my amarr weapons like laser rifles if I also want my cloak on. This has discouraged me a bit from the amarr scout.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 724	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:30:00 - [64] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Reactive plates are actually really good. The only problem is that the enhanced is garbage, not enough bonus to use over the basic, the complex it too much better. Same problem as the enhanced shield extender. If the enhanced was 2hp/s and the complex was 3 it woukd make the whole line more attractive. This, and the fitting requirements are just too high, it costs more than a plate / rep combo while being less effective.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2450	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:45:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Rattati, while I appreciate that the best use of what limited resources CCP has given you is to fix small things that have larger impacts, I think that GÇ£fixingGÇ¥ the Amarr scout is not a single process. (IGÇÖm about to make another thread to expand on this, so IGÇÖll cut to the chase) As one of the few hardcore Amarr loyalists left on the forums, IGÇÖm honor bound to take a moment to harp on what has been noted already, we damn well told CCP months ago that this would happen. There were literally hundreds of posts on dozens of threads about this. My favorite: Aero had a thread where he basically challenged all comers to build an Amarr scout suit fitting that he couldnGÇÖt make better by using the Gallente scout. Nobody could! Anyway, my main point: You canGÇÖt (or at least shouldnGÇÖt) fix the Amarr scout just in the context of your analysis that itGÇÖs the least used. ThatGÇÖs not news to anyone, and would not have been surprising if you told us that 3 months ago. We all know it sucks. The slots are OK but the bonus is crap and like a lot of the Amarr suits, the improved base stats donGÇÖt always compensate for the bonuses or slot counts. So fix the Amarr scout while fixing GÇ£allGÇ¥ scouts. Shooting while cloaked is obviously a bug, IGÇÖll ignore that. So the main problem: Brick tanked scouts. A simple way this could potentially be done is a variation of something already mentioned. DeathwindRising wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All amarr suits should have zero movement penalty from armor honestly I actually propose the opposite. While I think making this a feature of, say, the Amarr Commando (or even assault) would actually be a brilliant idea, I donGÇÖt think itGÇÖs right for any scout, even the Amarr. It would only make the issue of brick tanked scouts worse. Instead, give all scout suits a penalty to armor modules. Instead of HP, IGÇÖd suggest a larger movement penalty. It makes sense from a physics standpoint: If you put 130 pts of armor on a sentinel frame, itGÇÖs gonna shrug it off, but have you seen the Gallente ~~stripper~~ scout suit? It should be heavily weighed down by that much plating. (Another alternative would be to simply make it so that scouts canGÇÖt fit standard plates at all, only reactive/ferroscale but that opens up a whole other discussion. ..) You could play with the numbers, but just to spitball, letGÇÖs say the movement penalty for armor plates is 50% higher when placed on a scout suit. Now, a complex plate gives you a 7.5% movement penalty. You could also make a stacking penalty on top of it to discourage straight up max tanking. How does this fix the Amarr scout? Everyone sort of agreed that it was supposed to be the light assault suit, but the Gallente is just better at it. So, to bring it in line with the other scouts and give it itGÇÖs intended role, you make the aforementioned penalties to armor either not apply to the Amarr scout, or perhaps a better way would be to make it a second bonus, such that at level 5 the penalties are pretty much gone. Now, the other scouts go back to being GÇ£lightGÇ¥ suits, Caldari as ewar, Gallente as stealth hunters, and Minmatar as speedy hackers/flankers. The Amarr becomes the light assault, a hybrid suit that is faster than the assault but not as durable and lacks the DPS bonus. Thanks for that. I actually didn't read all feedback from months ago, so all the told you so's in the world can't help me now. We didn't react to that feedback and that's that. We will try to do better. And agree, we can't "fix" Amarr scouts, let's fix scouts in general first. Now, does it boil down to something simple like this? Armor plate scouts - higher speed penalty on normal plates. Ferroscale should be the go to plate option (given that we improve them a bit) or just rep modules. I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Shield tanked scouts - extender stacking increases scan profile - again, encourage use of rechargers and energizers over stacking. Let me know if I am way off base Please don't take punitive actions on scouts and customization. Work on making other modules a more attractive option. Can't we move away from the hyper-nerf? The armor plate problem will persist until Assaults are fixed. Make the Amarr Scout a Scout first. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
The Eristic Dust 90210 454	Posted - 2014.05.19 22:22:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: That would be the simplest way, but I am not sure that the system currently allows for the suit size to dictate module bonuses. I will ask Wolfman tomorrow. Could there be a penalty multiplier for stacking HP mods on each suit class? 2x/plate on lights, 1x mids, .5x heavies (or subdivided further between Assaults/Logis, Sents/Comms)? Should extender HP values get buffed significantly, could make stacking them increase scan profile and apply similar multipliers. As mentioned previously, having the Amarr Scout bonus reduce/remove said penalty would be appropriate. Needs its current bonus doubled, too. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 798	Posted - 2014.05.19 22:33:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. ~high slot~ Dust/Eve transfers
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 819	Posted - 2014.05.19 23:57:00 - [68] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Please don't take punitive actions on scouts and customization. Can't we move away from the hyper-nerf? The armor plate problem will persist until Assaults are fixed. This. Exactly this. First, fix Assaults. Slayers will always migrate to the best slayer fit. Optimization demands it. Make Assaults the premier slayers, and the "brick-tank Scout" crisis will self-resolve. Will some Scouts still opt to dual or brick tank their suits? Sure. But those who do will lose more fights to the Slayer Assaults. And they'll still lose fights to the CalScouts who can sniff them out. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3143	Posted - 2014.05.20 00:20:00 - [69] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Rattati, while I appreciate that the best use of what limited resources CCP has given you is to fix small things that have larger impacts, I think that GÇ£fixingGÇ¥ the Amarr scout is not a single process. (IGÇÖm about to make another thread to expand on this, so IGÇÖll cut to the chase) As one of the few hardcore Amarr loyalists left on the forums, IGÇÖm honor bound to take a moment to harp on what has been noted already, we damn well told CCP months ago that this would happen. There were literally hundreds of posts on dozens of threads about this. My favorite: Aero had a thread where he basically challenged all comers to build an Amarr scout suit fitting that he couldnGÇÖt make better by using the Gallente scout. Nobody could! Anyway, my main point: You canGÇÖt (or at least shouldnGÇÖt) fix the Amarr scout just in the context of your analysis that itGÇÖs the least used. ThatGÇÖs not news to anyone, and would not have been surprising if you told us that 3 months ago. We all know it sucks. The slots are OK but the bonus is crap and like a lot of the Amarr suits, the improved base stats donGÇÖt always compensate for the bonuses or slot counts. So fix the Amarr scout while fixing GÇ£allGÇ¥ scouts. Shooting while cloaked is obviously a bug, IGÇÖll ignore that. So the main problem: Brick tanked scouts. A simple way this could potentially be done is a variation of something already mentioned. DeathwindRising wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All amarr suits should have zero movement penalty from armor honestly I actually propose the opposite. While I think making this a feature of, say, the Amarr Commando (or even assault) would actually be a brilliant idea, I donGÇÖt think itGÇÖs right for any scout, even the Amarr. It would only make the issue of brick tanked scouts worse. Instead, give all scout suits a penalty to armor modules. Instead of HP, IGÇÖd suggest a larger movement penalty. It makes sense from a physics standpoint: If you put 130 pts of armor on a sentinel frame, itGÇÖs gonna shrug it off, but have you seen the Gallente ~~stripper~~ scout suit? It should be heavily weighed down by that much plating. (Another alternative would be to simply make it so that scouts canGÇÖt fit standard plates at all, only reactive/ferroscale but that opens up a whole other discussion. ..) You could play with the numbers, but just to spitball, letGÇÖs say the movement penalty for armor plates is 50% higher when placed on a scout suit. Now, a complex plate gives you a 7.5% movement penalty. You could also make a stacking penalty on top of it to discourage straight up max tanking. How does this fix the Amarr scout? Everyone sort of agreed that it was supposed to be the light assault suit, but the Gallente is just better at it. So, to bring it in line with the other scouts and give it itGÇÖs intended role, you make the aforementioned penalties to armor either not apply to the Amarr scout, or perhaps a better way would be to make it a second bonus, such that at level 5 the penalties are pretty much gone. Now, the other scouts go back to being GÇ£lightGÇ¥ suits, Caldari as ewar, Gallente as stealth hunters, and Minmatar as speedy hackers/flankers. The Amarr becomes the light assault, a hybrid suit that is faster than the assault but not as durable and lacks the DPS bonus. Thanks for that. I actually didn't read all feedback from months ago, so all the told you so's in the world can't help me now. We didn't react to that feedback and that's that. We will try to do better. And agree, we can't "fix" Amarr scouts, let's fix scouts in general first. Now, does it boil down to something simple like this? Armor plate scouts - higher speed penalty on normal plates. Ferroscale should be the go to plate option (given that we improve them a bit) or just rep modules. I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Shield tanked scouts - extender stacking increases scan profile - again, encourage use of rechargers and energizers over stacking. Let me know if I am way off base Please don't take punitive actions on scouts and customization. Work on making other modules a more attractive option. Can't we move away from the hyper-nerf? The armor plate problem will persist until Assaults are fixed. Make the Amarr Scout a Scout first. Agreed Would simply increasing the movement penalty on Armour Plates not create a bigger penalty for scouts? Since they already move faster and the percentage would be a greater detriment to the scout than say a Heavy? This coupled with an increase in fitting cost on Plates would make Ferro more attractive to scouts, without specific changes to the scout class but working to fix the Armour problem. Brick tanking a scout is partially a symptom of Armour imbalance as I see it. KRRROOOOOOM
Vitharr Foebane Heaven's Lost Property 1241	Posted - 2014.05.20 02:28:00 - [70] - Quote making armor plates give % armor and giving the Amarr scout a bonus to armor plate efficiency might help. Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 27	Posted - 2014.05.20 02:53:00 - [71] - Quote TL;DR: The other scouts give the equivalent of at least 2 modules one of which is complex, while the Amarr Scout give less than one Ignoring the issue of de-cloaking animation, or whatever is causing the shooting while invisible bug, and armor stackign (both of which have already been mentioned and discussed at great length). I think one of the issues surrounding scouts is in the bonus equivalency to modules. Assuming Racial Scout suit to V they get Caldari Scout 25% Scan Radius 25% Scan Precision The equivalent of fitting 1 Basic Range Amplifier and the effectiveness of beyond 1 complex precision enhancer, and to my knowledge, no stacking penalties on dropsuit bonuses Gallente Scout 25% Scan Radius -25% Signature Radius Again, the equivalent of 1 Basic Range Amplifier but this time the same effectiveness of a Complex Profile Dampener. Minmatar Scout 25% Hacking Speed and 25% Nova Knife Damage The equivalent of 1 Complex Codebreaker, in addition to a base higher base hack speed (if I remember the SDE correctly) and 5 Non-Stacking penalized Complex Sidearm Damage mods (but only for nova knives..an actually reasonable trade in my opinion) Amarr Scout Suit 25% Stamina and 25 % Stamina Regeneration This bonus does not even give the same Stamina Regeneration as a basic Cardiac Regulator (although it does give the same Stamina Bonus). In my opinions, Amarr Scout Suit Bonuses need to be increased to at least 20% per level (to give a 100% bonus to both at level V or a single complex Cardiac Regulator...personally I'd like to see it be 25% per level) in addition to another bonus of some kind (either Hacking Speed or Nova Knife damage to have all scout suits share a bonus with at least 1 other scout suit, in addition to their role bonus...or just a completely new one such as the ferroscale plate bonus mentioned earlier in the thread)...if the bonus isn't changed completely As much as I like the Minmatar Scout's Nova Knife damage...I think it would be more generally useful to diversify the bonus and tone it down a ton...or keep it as the silent assassin...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 330	Posted - 2014.05.20 02:58:00 - [72] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: TL;DR: The other scouts give the equivalent of at least 2 modules one of which is complex, while the Amarr Scout give less than one Ignoring the issue of de-cloaking animation, or whatever is causing the shooting while invisible bug, and armor stackign (both of which have already been mentioned and discussed at great length). I think one of the issues surrounding scouts is in the bonus equivalency to modules. Assuming Racial Scout suit to V they get Caldari Scout 25% Scan Radius 25% Scan Precision The equivalent of fitting 1 Basic Range Amplifier and the effectiveness of beyond 1 complex precision enhancer, and to my knowledge, no stacking penalties on dropsuit bonuses Gallente Scout 25% Scan Radius -25% Signature Radius Again, the equivalent of 1 Basic Range Amplifier but this time the same effectiveness of a Complex Profile Dampener. Minmatar Scout 25% Hacking Speed and 25% Nova Knife Damage The equivalent of 1 Complex Codebreaker, in addition to a base higher base hack speed (if I remember the SDE correctly) and 5 Non-Stacking penalized Complex Sidearm Damage mods (but only for nova knives..an actually reasonable trade in my opinion) Amarr Scout Suit 25% Stamina and 25 % Stamina Regeneration This bonus does not even give the same Stamina Regeneration as a basic Cardiac Regulator (although it does give the same Stamina Bonus). In my opinions, Amarr Scout Suit Bonuses need to be increased to at least 20% per level (to give a 100% bonus to both at level V or a single complex Cardiac Regulator...personally I'd like to see it be 25% per level) in addition to another bonus of some kind (either Hacking Speed or Nova Knife damage to have all scout suits share a bonus with at least 1 other scout suit, in addition to their role bonus...or just a completely new one such as the ferroscale plate bonus mentioned earlier in the thread)...if the bonus isn't changed completely As much as I like the Minmatar Scout's Nova Knife damage...I think it would be more generally useful to diversify the bonus and tone it down a ton...or keep it as the silent assassin... I have to semi agree here. Min gets about a basic/enhanced kinkat worth of speed and a complex code breaker, the gal gets enhanced armor reps and complex dampening, the cal scout gets a basic regulator and a enhanced range amplifier and a complex precision enhancer (+5% actually). The amarr scout has about the same EHP as a cal scout so there is no bonus to armor. It gets a huge speed cut although it is about the same EHP as a cal scout. It's bonus is pointless and uneventful. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3151	Posted - 2014.05.20 06:06:00 - [73] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: In my opinions, Amarr Scout Suit Bonuses need to be increased to at least 20% per level (to give a 100% bonus to both at level V or a single complex Cardiac Regulator...personally I'd like to see it be 25% per level) in addition to another bonus of some kind (either Hacking Speed or Nova Knife damage to have all scout suits share a bonus with at least 1 other scout suit, in addition to their role bonus...or just a completely new one such as the ferroscale plate bonus mentioned earlier in the thread)...if the bonus isn't changed completely As much as I like the Minmatar Scout's Nova Knife damage...I think it would be more generally useful to diversify the bonus and tone it down a ton...or keep it as the silent assassin... Having run Proto Knives on Gal and MinGÇª I would say the Hacking bonus would be the better shared bonus for the Amarr scout. While I can Knife very competently with my Gal, the slower base speed is a factor in how challenging it is. Someone mentioned the idea of a shared bonus before (Aero) and I agreed then as I do now that it is not a bad option at all. Hacking bonus would be more EWAR inclined, which is suiting considering the Stamina or other potential bonuses are generally non EWAR related, it would compliment the Min/Amarr dynamic, I believe. KRRROOOOOOM

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1283	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:13:00 - [74] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. ~high slot~ hmmmmmmmmmmmmm "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2814	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:19:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. ~high slot~ hmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmm Caldari sentinels/assaults/logis filled with reactives in high slots and armor plates in low slots? No. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3083	Posted - 2014.05.20 09:01:00 - [76] - Quote Why not give shield extenders a recharge plenatiy but then have regularors in the low slots and suddenly you can pure brick or shield tank, making your choice of wepone a lot more important :-P Poorly though out sujection i know "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3365	Posted - 2014.05.20 10:50:00 - [77] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. ~high slot~ hmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmm Caldari sentinels/assaults/logis filled with reactives in high slots and armor plates in low slots? No. I don't think that would be as big a deal as you think if shield modules get "fixed." Which admittedly is a big if considering shield tanking has been gimped for like 6 months now. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 304	Posted - 2014.05.20 12:14:00 - [78] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: making armor plates give % armor and giving the Amarr scout a bonus to armor plate efficiency might help. i like it
danie braz Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.05.20 14:27:00 - [79] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. ~high slot~ hmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmm Caldari sentinels/assaults/logis filled with reactives in high slots and armor plates in low slots? No. Ehp might not be bigger than amarr. Reactives dont have high hp values plus have a higher cpu and pg. Caldari armor tanked. Meh. Assaults may just be slower that heavies. My shottie will love it.
IgniteableAura Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 1081	Posted - 2014.05.20 15:43:00 - [80] - Quote The current issue with the Amarr scout is that it currently doesn't utilize its stamina bonus in a meaningful way. All the other suits are superior in their mobility. I would remove the stamina bonus and make it a suit innate ability. There has yet to be an "anti" Ewar suit. So if its possible I would propose the Amarr scout gets a bonus that decreases profile of friendly suits in its passive scanning range as well as a bonus to scan range. Make the bonus the same strength as the caldari and gallente. Allow profile mods fitted to the amarr scout to translate to the friendly suits in the scan range (but not the amarr scout itself). Or if thats too technical, make a new mod specifically for it, as a low slot; so they have to decide on personal damp or squad damps. Only units that would receive the bonus would be those in squad. Youtube

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2367	Posted - 2014.05.20 16:33:00 - [81] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. ~high slot~ hmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmm Caldari sentinels/assaults/logis filled with reactives in high slots and armor plates in low slots? No. At best, as a high slot, I would see it as acceptable if it didn't add HP, but just magified armor reps (local and remote). (10/15/20%) Which would actually go well with the minmatar's remote repair bonus. However, I don't think there is currently an attribute that does this.
Marc Rime 402	Posted - 2014.05.20 17:32:00 - [82] - Quote It really depends on how you change armour plates and/or the larger suits. Some kind of reduction to armour plate penalty or the ability to fit two light weapons might make sense, but it all depends on what other changes you go with. EDIT: Oh, and if you change HP mods so the base HP of suits makes a difference once more, maybe a slight buff to their base EHP would be an alternative?
RedPencil DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2014.05.20 19:53:00 - [83] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: TL;DR: The other scouts give the equivalent of at least 2 modules one of which is complex, while the Amarr Scout give less than one Ignoring the issue of de-cloaking animation, or whatever is causing the shooting while invisible bug, and armor stackign (both of which have already been mentioned and discussed at great length). I think one of the issues surrounding scouts is in the bonus equivalency to modules. Assuming Racial Scout suit to V they get Caldari Scout 25% Scan Radius 25% Scan Precision The equivalent of fitting 1 Basic Range Amplifier and the effectiveness of beyond 1 complex precision enhancer, and to my knowledge, no stacking penalties on dropsuit bonuses Gallente Scout 25% Scan Radius -25% Signature Radius Again, the equivalent of 1 Basic Range Amplifier but this time the same effectiveness of a Complex Profile Dampener. Minmatar Scout 25% Hacking Speed and 25% Nova Knife Damage The equivalent of 1 Complex Codebreaker, in addition to a base higher base hack speed (if I remember the SDE correctly) and 5 Non-Stacking penalized Complex Sidearm Damage mods (but only for nova knives..an actually reasonable trade in my opinion) Amarr Scout Suit 25% Stamina and 25 % Stamina Regeneration This bonus does not even give the same Stamina Regeneration as a basic Cardiac Regulator (although it does give the same Stamina Bonus). In my opinions, Amarr Scout Suit Bonuses need to be increased to at least 20% per level (to give a 100% bonus to both at level V or a single complex Cardiac Regulator...personally I'd like to see it be 25% per level) in addition to another bonus of some kind (either Hacking Speed or Nova Knife damage to have all scout suits share a bonus with at least 1 other scout suit, in addition to their role bonus...or just a completely new one such as the ferroscale plate bonus mentioned earlier in the thread)...if the bonus isn't changed completely As much as I like the Minmatar Scout's Nova Knife damage...I think it would be more generally useful to diversify the bonus and tone it down a ton...or keep it as the silent assassin... Could we change the bonus to Caldari Scout 25% Scan Precision and 25% (their faction sidearm) Damage Gallente Scout -25% Signature Radius and 25% (their faction sidearm) Damage Minmatar Scout 25% Hacking Speed 25% Nova Knife Damage Amarr Scout Suit 25% Scan Radius and 25% (their faction sidearm) Damage So now every scout have an equal 1 complex module. I wish we have all 4 faction knife, so all scout will have bonus to their faction knife
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3927	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:27:00 - [84] - Quote RedPencil wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: TL;DR: The other scouts give the equivalent of at least 2 modules one of which is complex, while the Amarr Scout give less than one Ignoring the issue of de-cloaking animation, or whatever is causing the shooting while invisible bug, and armor stackign (both of which have already been mentioned and discussed at great length). I think one of the issues surrounding scouts is in the bonus equivalency to modules. Assuming Racial Scout suit to V they get Caldari Scout 25% Scan Radius 25% Scan Precision The equivalent of fitting 1 Basic Range Amplifier and the effectiveness of beyond 1 complex precision enhancer, and to my knowledge, no stacking penalties on dropsuit bonuses Gallente Scout 25% Scan Radius -25% Signature Radius Again, the equivalent of 1 Basic Range Amplifier but this time the same effectiveness of a Complex Profile Dampener. Minmatar Scout 25% Hacking Speed and 25% Nova Knife Damage The equivalent of 1 Complex Codebreaker, in addition to a base higher base hack speed (if I remember the SDE correctly) and 5 Non-Stacking penalized Complex Sidearm Damage mods (but only for nova knives..an actually reasonable trade in my opinion) Amarr Scout Suit 25% Stamina and 25 % Stamina Regeneration This bonus does not even give the same Stamina Regeneration as a basic Cardiac Regulator (although it does give the same Stamina Bonus). In my opinions, Amarr Scout Suit Bonuses need to be increased to at least 20% per level (to give a 100% bonus to both at level V or a single complex Cardiac Regulator...personally I'd like to see it be 25% per level) in addition to another bonus of some kind (either Hacking Speed or Nova Knife damage to have all scout suits share a bonus with at least 1 other scout suit, in addition to their role bonus...or just a completely new one such as the ferroscale plate bonus mentioned earlier in the thread)...if the bonus isn't changed completely As much as I like the Minmatar Scout's Nova Knife damage...I think it would be more generally useful to diversify the bonus and tone it down a ton...or keep it as the silent assassin... Could we change the bonus to Caldari Scout 25% Scan Precision and 25% (their faction sidearm) Damage Gallente Scout -25% Signature Radius and 25% (their faction sidearm) Damage Minmatar Scout 25% Hacking Speed 25% Nova Knife Damage Amarr Scout Suit 25% Scan Radius and 25% (their faction sidearm) Damage So now every scout have an equal 1 complex module. I wish we have all 4 faction knife, so all scout will have bonus to their faction knife Even if every faction had a knife, the fastest suit gets the most mileage out of being able to close the distance to use it. Dren&Templar Tragedy.
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 450	Posted - 2014.05.21 02:47:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? I'm sure this has been said a dozen times by now, but why not give the Gallente armor repair bonus to the Amarr scouts? It's simple and would balance out the suits, giving people a reason to actually use the Amarr over the Gallente suit. As it stands, the latter is better at almost everything both scout related and light assault related, barring a very small health difference, I believe the Amarr scout only has a 30hps regen on their shields, compared to the Gallente scout, which seems odd considering the Amarr scout seems to be designed (with its' current bonus) as a true light assault suit, not a scout suit. Even the scanning bonuses were lower, if I remember correctly (and if they haven't been changed) Simply swap over that repair rate and I bet the usage of the Amarr suit would skyrocket. It still wouldn't necessarily be OP, but it'd better fit into the roll that it seems to be made for while leaving the Gallente suit as more of an actual scout suit. Did I mention this would probably also be extremely easy instead of coming up with new bonuses entirely? Oh, and it could even fix a lot of the complaints over armor tanked scout suits, or at least lessen them. Two birds with one stone and all that good stuff. Nova Knives are magic~ Inserts knife into nearest merc's spinal column And now, so are you! Bask in the magics!
Artemis Kaiba Shadow Broker Wet Squad 47	Posted - 2014.05.21 04:05:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Change their bonus to melee damage increase. By a lot. Not nova knives but pure melee damage. This would give the ammar scout a unique speciality and fun.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2835	Posted - 2014.05.21 05:53:00 - [87] - Quote Question: Do you guys even theorycraft? If I had the time, I would show you what kind of OP fits you could do with only ferroscale plates in the lows and reactives in the highs on a slayer cal-logi. Add two triage hives on top of that also, and a resupply hive. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10259	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:05:00 - [88] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I think they should be the scouts that are best able to armor tank. If there were an increase in the fitting cost for plates, perhaps they could get a 5 to 10 percent bonus to fitting them. This would both discourage tanking on other scouts while enabling Amarr to be the most able to tank. This is a poor suggestion in my opinion. I dislike the notion that the Amarr race should be regarded as the "Combat" Race aka the race geared to basic and very direct combat scenarios. Perhaps this is a fair design for the Assault and Sentinel Classes of the Amarr race but not for its scouts. Scout players who choose Amarr scout do not wish to play a Light Assault Role, the want a competitive frame that allows them to perform alongside the other scouts, and supercede the others in their specified role. Unfortunately at this current time the Amarr scout is bested in almost all areas. It's biotics are outdone but the Gallente Scout, its base and HP cieling is only 35 more than the Gallente's, its given bonus is out done over distance by the Minmatar Stamina regeneration and other scouts scan bonuses. All in all it simply isnt viable because the Amarr Scout does nothing any other scout cannot do. The Amarr scout needs a SCOUTING BONUS. A bonus that applies to a specific scouting role.....which at this time the Amarr scout simply does not have. Cal Scouts are the radar dishes of Dust. Gal Scouts are the Ghosts of Dust. Min Scouts are the Hackers and Assassins of Dust. Considering what the Amarr do well in EVE.....not much can be directly applied. We cannot drain Capacitors, we cannot slow tracking speeds, etc. What I would suggest needs to be done to bring the Amarr in line if focus the suit on its core biotics enhancing skills. The Stamina and Regeneration bonuses are good...... but underwhelming when outdone at base level by its counter part the MInmatar Scout. I suggest keeping the theme of making the Amarr scout the most physically enduring/ endurance based scout and develop more suitable bonuses. Markdown:
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8343	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:15:00 - [89] - Quote Really, no one from CCP was reading the feedback earlier? Well maybe you will see it this time, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1941039#post1941039 That thread explains how you can take any Amarr scout fitting and convert it into an identical but better Gallente scout fitting. It works on the basis that since these two have identical slot layouts you can easily compare them, and the Gal scouts inherent 3 reps per second and faster speed puts it on far better ground than the Amarr scout's 30 extra EHP and increased inherent stamina (which means it gets just as far but slower). Also the simple fact that every other scout has bonuses that encompass 2 different high tier modules whereas the Amarr scout has a bonus you can beat out with one militia cardiac regulator. Amarr are the good guys.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 28	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:17:00 - [90] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: Two things give bonus to Sniper Rifle. New idea make the amarr scout scan like a vehicle with a ring of circles coming out of it like a stone dropped in water to x amount of feet. A boosted Passive scan that makes them glow gold like a glorious angelic being. Long Live the Empress! Sniper rifle is Caldari, doesn't really make sense. Passive scan precision is already taken by Caldari. The scan ring thing gave me an idea though; what if it emanated a ring like you describe, but the ring was to buff nearby friendlies, and to debuff enemies? would make a great squad asset. The buffs to friendlies could be a decrease in signature profile, and fire rate increase, and the opposite for eneimes. i think the commander suit would fit this role or we could have modules that would enable this ability but you need to be squad leader to have any effect.

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3400	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:21:00 - [91] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Really, no one from CCP was reading the feedback earlier? Well maybe you will see it this time, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1941039#post1941039 That thread explains how you can take any Amarr scout fitting and convert it into an identical but better Gallente scout fitting. It works on the basis that since these two have identical slot layouts you can easily compare them, and the Gal scouts inherent 3 reps per second and faster speed puts it on far better ground than the Amarr scout's 30 extra EHP and increased inherent stamina (which means it gets just as far but slower). Also the simple fact that every other scout has bonuses that encompass 2 different high tier modules whereas the Amarr scout has a bonus you can beat out with one militia cardiac regulator. That's the one, thx Aero. I was too lazy to search for it earlier! Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3928	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:57:00 - [92] - Quote On the subject of balancing all scouts, I like the idea of larger penalties to tanking modules on the scout. It makes logical sense, sort of like compact car not being able to tow massive amounts of cargo or an 18-wheeler not being massively encumbered by transporting a compact car. Similarly, if shields extenders had a signature increasing quality (similar to EVE) that was magnified on scouts, it could discourage their use on the suits by removing a large portion of the stealth benefit that scouts enjoy. A scout that dual-tanks with regular plates would effectively wind-up slower than an assault and be just as visible on radar. For the Amarr scout in particular. There's a fair amount of I-told-you-so in this particular issue since I know was hardly alone in harping about the bonus, and I personally ranted about the speed vs. tank issue as well (the Amarr scout is slower than a Minnie Assault). I still think the core of the issue is the Amarr not being allotted an actual scout role to a large degree. People have proven scouts can thrive as assault players, and there's a combination of factors at play here. I don't think you can discount the fact the slot/fitting balance wasn't finished on medium frames either (which was hurting them in comparison) as well as the various issues related to suits not getting their bonuses on spawn. I'd still just like the Amarr Scout to be faster - more scout-like. This is even more-so true if an adjustment is going to take place that reduces the tanking ability of scouts. There's a number of ways to reach that former goal, and I'm not sure about locking them all to module (kincat, etc.) performance. There would still be a latent issue in that case where Gallente, Caldari, and Minmatar all get bonuses without slotting any modules while the Amarr only get bonuses when using them (Nova Knives aside). It's unclear to me if people would have issues with an Amarr bonus to sprint/move speed that was just a straight bonus, if your "bonus" for leveling up was being faster than X Scout... but only if you're rank 5. Dren&Templar Tragedy.
The-Errorist Sver true blood 702	Posted - 2014.05.22 00:49:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Caldari and Gallente already share scan radius, so shouldn't the Amarr get a bonus to a sidearm like the Minmatar does? I think that if the Amarr scout has a bonus to maximum stamina and a damage or rate of fire bonus to scrambler pistols, they would get more use. Another thing that needs to be done is to make armor plates have a higher movement penalty like 3/5/7%. MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).


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