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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
3339
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Posted - 2014.05.19 14:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rattati, while I appreciate that the best use of what limited resources CCP has given you is to fix small things that have larger impacts, I think that GÇ£fixingGÇ¥ the Amarr scout is not a single process. (IGÇÖm about to make another thread to expand on this, so IGÇÖll cut to the chase)
As one of the few hardcore Amarr loyalists left on the forums, IGÇÖm honor bound to take a moment to harp on what has been noted already, we damn well told CCP months ago that this would happen. There were literally hundreds of posts on dozens of threads about this.
My favorite: Aero had a thread where he basically challenged all comers to build an Amarr scout suit fitting that he couldnGÇÖt make better by using the Gallente scout. Nobody could!
Anyway, my main point: You canGÇÖt (or at least shouldnGÇÖt) fix the Amarr scout just in the context of your analysis that itGÇÖs the least used. ThatGÇÖs not news to anyone, and would not have been surprising if you told us that 3 months ago. We all know it sucks. The slots are OK but the bonus is crap and like a lot of the Amarr suits, the improved base stats donGÇÖt always compensate for the bonuses or slot counts.
So fix the Amarr scout while fixing GÇ£allGÇ¥ scouts. Shooting while cloaked is obviously a bug, IGÇÖll ignore that. So the main problem: Brick tanked scouts. A simple way this could potentially be done is a variation of something already mentioned.
DeathwindRising wrote:BLOOD Ruler wrote:The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All amarr suits should have zero movement penalty from armor honestly
I actually propose the opposite. While I think making this a feature of, say, the Amarr Commando (or even assault) would actually be a brilliant idea, I donGÇÖt think itGÇÖs right for any scout, even the Amarr. It would only make the issue of brick tanked scouts worse.
Instead, give all scout suits a penalty to armor modules. Instead of HP, IGÇÖd suggest a larger movement penalty.
It makes sense from a physics standpoint: If you put 130 pts of armor on a sentinel frame, itGÇÖs gonna shrug it off, but have you seen the Gallente stripper scout suit? It should be heavily weighed down by that much plating. (Another alternative would be to simply make it so that scouts canGÇÖt fit standard plates at all, only reactive/ferroscale but that opens up a whole other discussion. ..)
You could play with the numbers, but just to spitball, letGÇÖs say the movement penalty for armor plates is 50% higher when placed on a scout suit. Now, a complex plate gives you a 7.5% movement penalty. You could also make a stacking penalty on top of it to discourage straight up max tanking.
How does this fix the Amarr scout? Everyone sort of agreed that it was supposed to be the light assault suit, but the Gallente is just better at it. So, to bring it in line with the other scouts and give it itGÇÖs intended role, you make the aforementioned penalties to armor either not apply to the Amarr scout, or perhaps a better way would be to make it a second bonus, such that at level 5 the penalties are pretty much gone.
Now, the other scouts go back to being GÇ£lightGÇ¥ suits, Caldari as ewar, Gallente as stealth hunters, and Minmatar as speedy hackers/flankers. The Amarr becomes the light assault, a hybrid suit that is faster than the assault but not as durable and lacks the DPS bonus.
Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit!
See you in Destiny
psn: bobswerski
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
3341
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 17:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Thanks for that. I actually didn't read all feedback from months ago, so all the told you so's in the world can't help me now.  We didn't react to that feedback and that's that. We will try to do better. And agree, we can't "fix" Amarr scouts, let's fix scouts in general first. Now, does it boil down to something simple like this? Armor plate scouts - higher speed penalty on normal plates. Ferroscale should be the go to plate option (given that we improve them a bit) or just rep modules. I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. Shield tanked scouts - extender stacking increases scan profile - again, encourage use of rechargers and energizers over stacking. Let me know if I am way off base
No worries, sorry about the rant. Gotta vent some about Dust here and there. Obviously you're just the poor guy sent in to clean up the mess.I encourage you to read this, at least the first part.
I think that if you 'fixed' ferroscale plates and made it so that scouts could only use those and not "regular" plates that could work pretty well. As I mentioned in the previous post I didn't get into that because it was long enough already. But the nice thing about that type of module segregation is you could more easily use those to balance scouts without messing up sentinels, for example.
For the Amarr scout, you should give them an HP bonus for ferroscales in addition to the stamina bonus. Someone suggested allowing them to be an exception and use regular plates, that might work too, but I would guess the bonus would be easier to adjust/balance.
Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit!
See you in Destiny
psn: bobswerski
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
3347
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 19:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:That would be the simplest way, but I am not sure that the system currently allows for the suit size to dictate module bonuses. I will ask Wolfman tomorrow. I believe before 1.8 Amarr logis got a bonus to repair modules. This is an example of the suit you wear affecting the modules attached to it. So I would be surprised if this can't be done. Though you never know about the internal workings of these things.
He's talking about variable bonuses(actually penalties in this case) based on suit size, not a bonus to an individual module. The latter are everywhere.
Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit!
See you in Destiny
psn: bobswerski
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
3365
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:I don't think we can fix reactives, I just don't see the sense in them. ~high slot~ hmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmm Caldari sentinels/assaults/logis filled with reactives in high slots and armor plates in low slots? No.
I don't think that would be as big a deal as you think if shield modules get "fixed." Which admittedly is a big if considering shield tanking has been gimped for like 6 months now.
Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit!
See you in Destiny
psn: bobswerski
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
3400
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 21:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Really, no one from CCP was reading the feedback earlier? Well maybe you will see it this time, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1941039#post1941039That thread explains how you can take any Amarr scout fitting and convert it into an identical but better Gallente scout fitting. It works on the basis that since these two have identical slot layouts you can easily compare them, and the Gal scouts inherent 3 reps per second and faster speed puts it on far better ground than the Amarr scout's 30 extra EHP and increased inherent stamina (which means it gets just as far but slower). Also the simple fact that every other scout has bonuses that encompass 2 different high tier modules whereas the Amarr scout has a bonus you can beat out with one militia cardiac regulator.
That's the one, thx Aero. I was too lazy to search for it earlier!
Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit!
See you in Destiny
psn: bobswerski
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