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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1164	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:21:00 - [1] - Quote Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1428	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:30:00 - [2] - Quote They are currently under-utilized because the Amarr Scout's bonus is (extra stamina) is completely negated by the fact that it is still slower than a Minmatar scout, even over long distances. A simple solution to make the Amarr suit more useful would be to also give it a bonus to movement speed. Not sprint speed but base movement speed. This would let Ammar scouts stack kin cats to make themselves faster than Min scouts (should they wish) or stack hp and still be as quick as the other scouts. Fun > Realism
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1544	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:30:00 - [3] - Quote I think they should be the scouts that are best able to armor tank. If there were an increase in the fitting cost for plates, perhaps they could get a 5 to 10 percent bonus to fitting them. This would both discourage tanking on other scouts while enabling Amarr to be the most able to tank. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10814	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:40:00 - [4] - Quote Amarr scouts aren't used for 2 reasons. 1) While the Amarr scout has the most base HP out of all the scouts, armor-based suits require an armor repairer to be successful. The Gallente scout has a builtin armor repairer, which means it doesn't need to use a low slot for an armor repairer, allowing the Gallente scout to stack more HP, or other modules. Solution: The Amarr scout needs something that the Gallente scout doesn't have. 2) The bonus is useless. Even with the stamina bonus, other scouts can cover more distance in a shorter time; someone had a thread and graph about it, but I can't find it, you guys should have already seen it if you were truly paying attention to feedback so I will assume you already saw it. Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. Perhaps another cloak bonus, like cloak recharge rate or duration. Perhaps 2 racial bonuses like the Minmatar one. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 236	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:49:00 - [5] - Quote Two things give bonus to Sniper Rifle. New idea make the amarr scout scan like a vehicle with a ring of circles coming out of it like a stone dropped in water to x amount of feet. A boosted Passive scan that makes them glow gold like a glorious angelic being. Long Live the Empress!
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2653	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:00:00 - [6] - Quote I would love to see a cloaking bonus.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 792	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:07:00 - [7] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: I would love to see a cloaking bonus. It originally had one, didn't it? bonus to cloak regen or something? Of course, cloaks regen stupidly fast and last ridiculously long as it is, so it's not much of a bonus. Dust/Eve transfers
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10819	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:12:00 - [8] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Two things give bonus to Sniper Rifle. New idea make the amarr scout scan like a vehicle with a ring of circles coming out of it like a stone dropped in water to x amount of feet. A boosted Passive scan that makes them glow gold like a glorious angelic being. Long Live the Empress! Sniper rifle is Caldari, doesn't really make sense. Passive scan precision is already taken by Caldari. The scan ring thing gave me an idea though; what if it emanated a ring like you describe, but the ring was to buff nearby friendlies, and to debuff enemies? would make a great squad asset. The buffs to friendlies could be a decrease in signature profile, and fire rate increase, and the opposite for eneies. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 222	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:13:00 - [9] - Quote The Amarr should have a less speed penalty while equipping armor.Like the more armor the faster they get,that or they should not have their speed affected by armor at all. All eyes on me till you drop dead in your Blood mmmm yummy
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14360	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:15:00 - [10] - Quote I know it kind of steps on the toes of the Amarr Logi, but some kind of bonus to fitting and using drop uplinks could be pretty cool.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2035	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:11:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Give them a bonus to number of REs carried per stack and watch their use skyrocket A mobility bonus that is more general and % based would be an improvement over the current one. If keeping exclusively to the mobility theme a two-pronged bonus with one giving a base passive increase to mobility in the vein of the Dropsuit Command mobility skill (is it called biotics now?) and the other granting a 5-10% buff per level for equipped biotics mods. Yes this could make them run quite fast and quite far but with the SP and fittings costs of the mobility mods I don't think it would be OP (besides the % buff can be tweaked to scale properly in light of on field data). Alternately they could get a bonus to explosive damage (if the tagging system permits that, which I think it does in light of the heavy bonus) giving them the ability to employ Prox, Swarms, MD, RE, Locus/AV nades, etc more effectively than other suits which would create an interesting and unique niche for them but the degree of buff would need to be carefully considered to maintain proper balance. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Ace Starburst Tom Cruise Thetan Army 108	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:18:00 - [12] - Quote Make them blow up when killed or critically hit in their power pack. Amarr Ackbarr!
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3130	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:38:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Just going to preface this with I have experience running all the scout suits. The Amarr scout performs well in comparison to 1.7 and previous builds, but does not have the capabilities of the Gal or Cal scout in the current build. The Amarr scout does not have a terrible bonus, but it is a supporting bonus, not a primary bonus. The Gal and Cal scouts are likely the go to suits, because of the obvious and some not so obvious bonuses to these suits. The scan range is great and they have complementary bonuses. Minmatar scoutsGÇª a lot of us like Knives The hacking bonus is a great compliment to any scout. What I have found is that the Amarr scout can be fit out very nicely. The basic stats are almost entirely better than the other scouts, with the exception of movement. The stamina bonus allows for fitting a Rep and is actually good over the long haul. You will not be the first scout to the Objective but you will likely be the one hacking it if the Reds get to it first. Amarr are easy to armour up, but so are the Gal, and they get two useful bonuses and a 3 Rep. Increase the base Armour of the Amarr scout to be inline with an Enhanced Plate Fix Armour Plates so they are not the easiest to fit for the greatest bonus (this is for overall balance) Decrease the Gal scout Rep to 2 (and I say this as a Gal scout user, and a player who prefers buff over nerf) Add a Primary Bonus to the Amarr Scout. (See below) Better Bonus options: Fitting bonus to Ferroscale Armour (allows for more higher tier gear) Fitting bonus to Laser Weapons (allows for higher tier gear and more EWAR mods) Bonus to recharge rate of Cloak (At Proto may be an issue, as you can virtually perm cloak as it is) Efficacy bonus to Damage Mods ( Perhaps to assaulty but hey we are here to kill each other right?) Other suggestions in this thread are also nice. Though I am leery of a 10% efficacy bonus to Biotics, as it is potentially a triple bonus. Also Kins are a 1% bonus on the skill tree and to give a 15% efficacy bonus may be a bit high, but I have not run the math (if anyone has please post it). KRRROOOOOOM
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2361	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:17:00 - [14] - Quote See my armor tweak here in the armor modules thread. I think, depending on how you'd make the kincat mods work, you could potentially get them to have about the same or more eHP than gal scouts and be faster than them.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 322	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:08:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Amarr race has one thing in commong. Damage reduction, high EHP, and a total tank system. I think the Amarr scout should have a 3% damage reduction from armor effective weapons per level. At 15% they become the true brick tank scouts as they should likely be. Take away the current bonus. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2042	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:21:00 - [16] - Quote This is actually a pretty interesting dilemma that I haven't thought about much so far, but I do recognize that it is an issue. In Dust the Amarr typically have the best endurance out of suits in the same class. How do you guys feel about a bonus to Biotics in general? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 192	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:33:00 - [17] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Amarr scouts aren't used for 2 reasons. 1) While the Amarr scout has the most base HP out of all the scouts, armor-based suits require an armor repairer to be successful. The Gallente scout has a builtin armor repairer, which means it doesn't need to use a low slot for an armor repairer, allowing the Gallente scout to stack more HP, or other modules. Solution: The Amarr scout needs something that the Gallente scout doesn't have. 2) The bonus is useless. Even with the stamina bonus, other scouts can cover more distance in a shorter time; someone had a thread and graph about it, but I can't find it, you guys should have already seen it if you were truly paying attention to feedback so I will assume you already saw it. Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. Perhaps another cloak bonus, like cloak recharge rate or duration. Perhaps 2 racial bonuses like the Minmatar one. ^This^ The Gallente Scout is too good. No need to use an Amar Scout. Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 763	Posted - 2014.05.18 07:18:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Why Brick-Tank a Scout? * The brick-tanked Scout is presently more appealing to "slayers" than the current Assault suits. * The Scout remains highly mobile while tanked, and there isn't much drawback to stacking plates. * Brick tanking is presently more effective than shield tanking. * HMG heavies are abundant, and they tend to deal alot of damage before dying. Why Not Go Amarr Scout? * Amarr Scout and Gallente Scout are similar, and both are well-suited for brick tanking. * GalScout passive armor rep appeals to the brick tanker. * GalScout profile permits it to beat most scans with only one dampener (when cloaked). * GalScout perks were deemed slightly better, so most folks opted against Amarr. What Should Amarr Do Best? * The Amarr Scout should be better at brick-tanking than any other Scout. How to Fix Amarr's Relative Popularity? * Make Assault Suits better "slayers" than Scout Suits (to shrink GalScout population). * Give the Gallente Scout's passive armor repair perk to the Amarr Scout. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Balamob SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 28	Posted - 2014.05.18 07:54:00 - [19] - Quote AMARR SCOUTS SHOULD GET A REDUCTION TO SPEED PENALY OF ARMOR PLATES...... This way they can wear hevy EHP, a redution of 10%-15% to the armor penaalty. Being a Templar is a vow for life.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 441	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:31:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? First of all, the stamina bonus is laughable. All other bonuses equal complex modules, why doesn't this one? I like the diversity of the Amarr scout. It's basically the terminator - Tough and with extremely high stamina. Focus on that aspect. Maybe give it more armor tanking capability. I'm not in favor of a speed bonus, but giving it a bonus of reducing plate speed penalties would fit this suit. It's basically a cloaked light Assault, anyway. Make it capable of running endlessly and unimpeded, even one the largest maps and with complex plates. This also ties in nicely into the Amarr "hard to use" mentality: Running makes you vulnerable in this game, by preventing you from reloading or firing. And this suit is the slowest scout, so it needs to run all the time. It can't run away, in contrast to other scouts, or play hid and seek much. That's why it should have bigger armor.

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13485	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:34:00 - [21] - Quote Sticky? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 520	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:00:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr scouts, are the least used ones. We would like your theories as to why and how they can become a little more attractive to players. What should they do better than anyone? Before the release of the Scouts there were several threadnoughts on the issue that the Amarr Scout was going to underperform. Apparently nobody cared to read them. The Amarr Scout: - Has less tank than a GalScout (because it needs to sacrifice a slot for reps where the GalScout has that in-built). - Is slower than a GalScout when fitted for comparable eHP as a GalScout. - Doesn't receive a racial bonus. (The current one is really not a factor in game.) There is literally nothing of relevance the Amarr Scout is better at than any other scout. Personally, my favorite way out of this situation is drastically reducing the maximum duration of cloaks to 5 seconds at STD and 10 seconds at PRO while keeping a 60 seconds recharge time. This means as a Scout you can't be invisible "by default" but will have to think about when you are going to use the cloak. Then grant the Amarr Scout a 10% bonus per level to recharge speed (for a 33% reduction in cooldown at lvl 5, equals to 15 second less time between activations) to make it the invisibility specialist. After that roles would go like this: - Caldari Scout can pick up everyone on his radar, even if they see him too. - Gallente Scout can't be detected by scanning, but can't scan very well himself. - Minmatar Scout avoids detection by running from your line of sight very quickly. (The faster you are, the less time you spend in places where people may look.) - Amarr Scout avoids detection by not being visible to the eye, even if he does appear on other people's minimap while uncloaked.
Grimmiers 549	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:06:00 - [23] - Quote If shooting your gun increased db you could've given the amarr a built in silencer for their guns.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1072	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:17:00 - [24] - Quote All scouts need work, not just Amarr. Something needs to be done with HP totals, no Scout should exceed 500HP yet Caldari hit 600, Matari 700, and with the lows GalAmarr hit 800hp on damn LIGHT suits, they needs to be a cap on tanking it's that simple. As for Amarr bonus, if the game wasn't full of FoTm crutch chasers then you'd see the suit being used more. 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
Glyd Path Nec Tributis 48	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:33:00 - [25] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: Two things give bonus to Sniper Rifle. New idea make the amarr scout scan like a vehicle with a ring of circles coming out of it like a stone dropped in water to x amount of feet. A boosted Passive scan that makes them glow gold like a glorious angelic being. Long Live the Empress! Sniper rifle is Caldari, doesn't really make sense. Passive scan precision is already taken by Caldari. The scan ring thing gave me an idea though; what if it emanated a ring like you describe, but the ring was to buff nearby friendlies, and to debuff enemies? would make a great squad asset. The buffs to friendlies could be a decrease in signature profile, and fire rate increase, and the opposite for eneimes. Wrong game, dude. Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 225	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:51:00 - [26] - Quote Lot of sage comments in here already, so I'll just be pithy. ;) Amarr Scout problems: - Very similar to Gal Scout, but Gal Scout is generally better (better bonuses, 3hp regen, faster) - Amarr Scout bonus inherently worthless (in that a single Cardiac Regulator mod is so good at what it does) My preferred solutions: - A buff to its ability to armor tank (Possibly alongside a nerf to all other Scout's ability to armor tank.) - A buff to its use of Cloaks (Many are advocating faster Cloak regen, but I feel a rule breaking Shimmer reduction is more interesting.) Supporting Kevall Longstride, CEO of DUST University, for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13486	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:16:00 - [27] - Quote The problem with the Amarr scout is that it's basically outperformed in every meaningful way by the Gallente scout. They're too similar. I would suggest changing the slot layout to 2/5 and giving it a bonus a lot more useful than stamina. Stamina is already plentiful on a scout, and for some unknown reason Minmatar suits received a huge stamina regen buff in 1.8 meaning that they can contend with the Amarr scout even if more scout stamina was a useful perk. The relative value of the bonus is very low, even if it were useful. The Gallente scout receives bonuses equivalent to a complex profile dampener and a basic range extender, and has a built in enhanced repairer. The Caldari scout receives bonuses equivalent to a complex precision enhancer (plus a little bit more) and a basic range extender, and has by far the best shield regen in the game. The Minmatar scout has that much stamina built in, and then has bonuses equivalent to a codebreaker and multiple damage mods, although these are a little more specialised. The Amarr scout receives a bonus equivalent to a single basic cardiac regulator. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 225	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:41:00 - [28] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Amarr scouts aren't used for 2 reasons. 1) While the Amarr scout has the most base HP out of all the scouts, armor-based suits require an armor repairer to be successful. The Gallente scout has a builtin armor repairer, which means it doesn't need to use a low slot for an armor repairer, allowing the Gallente scout to stack more HP, or other modules. Solution: The Amarr scout needs something that the Gallente scout doesn't have. 2) The bonus is useless. Even with the stamina bonus, other scouts can cover more distance in a shorter time; someone had a thread and graph about it, but I can't find it, you guys should have already seen it if you were truly paying attention to feedback so I will assume you already saw it. Solutin: Give it a better bonus. A bonus like "+10% biotic module efficacy per level" might make it more attractive. Perhaps another cloak bonus, like cloak recharge rate or duration. Perhaps 2 racial bonuses like the Minmatar one. Found it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=148070 ;) Supporting Kevall Longstride, CEO of DUST University, for CPM1
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:31:00 - [29] - Quote Amarr scout bonus = decrease armor plates speed penalties by 1% per lvl. Amarr scout on lvl 5 will have 5% reduction of penalties from armor plates. Like that Scout gk.0 with 3 complex plates will have speed of 4.86, and scout ak.0 with the same 3 complex plates will have speed of 4.96 With 2 complex plates gk.0 GÇô 5.15. ak.0 GÇô 5.23. Same will be with adv plates. Amarr scout can have one base and one adv plate with no speed reduction: the totaly have 5% speed reduction and the bonus is 5% so the result is 0% speed reduction. So we got the armored Amarr scout ??? I believe I am not very clear with that and I am sorry not to be able to explain it more clear. My mind currently is blurred from the heat on the beach :) cheers
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2422	Posted - 2014.05.18 15:23:00 - [30] - Quote The problem with the Amarr Scout is that everyone got a dropsuit command SP refund. The Amarr Scout is the Human/Mario of Scouts. It has nothing it excels at but has the slot layout geared to focus on anything it wants. It won't have the scan range of the Caldari or Gallente. It won't dampen as well as Gallente. It won't get the precision of Caldari. I can't run as fast as a Minmatar (Amarr Stamina vs Minmatar Regeneration. Minmatar Wins all races), and it can't Hack as fast as the Minmatar either. But it has more fitting flexibility. You can use Codebreaker, Range Amplifiers, Precision Enhancers, and Profile Dampeners to outperform 2 other suits in any field. If we didn't get the Dropsuit Command refund then people that had never skilled into Scouts would have had to start from scratch. The Amarr's ability to cover the range of Scoutly-duties would have made it an excellent choice. But! We all could just take whatever suit we wanted and brought it up to lvl5. Without "endgame" skills of Dropsuit Upgrades, Engineering, and Electronics, the Scout suits are a very, very difficult suit to build up from. The 1.8 SP refund let people get around this issue of slowly building up their suit and let them jump into a Scout suit with all their skill bonuses. For those new guys and non-vets who are tight on SP. The Amarr Scout is one of the best choices out there. Lets look at what roles the scout preforms. Speed Hacking Assassination Scouting (Passive Scans or visuals) Covert Uplink Deployment Speed Hacking is taken by the Minmatar Scout. Hands down. Gallente comes is second place with Amarr a near 3rd. Assassination. I'd say Gallente Scouts are the best at this with Minmatar in second and Caldari 3rd and Amarr in last. The Gallente with their lowered profile has the best chance of weaving through the enemy lines, getting close to a target, and using a Shotgun to pick people off. The Minmatar use their greater speed to run through a crowd and either take people out with knives or shotgun or REs The Caldari would be less electronically stealthy but more oriented to weaving between people because you know exactly where all of them are. Get in close and use a shotgun or Remote Explosives. The Amarr just do not cut it as assassins. They could dedicate more low slots to replicate the speed, profile, or scan range of the other suits but they can't match it. The Caldari and Gallente are tied in this respect. The Amarr in third place and the Minmatar in last. The Gallente will be better at the classic style of using visuals to determine the status of an area while Caldari have the best tools to do it electronically. Still the Caldari won't be able to pick up all Scout suits and if they're cloaked the Gallente can't see them either. But Gallente can get a higher range than Caldari because they have more low slots. It's a trade off of accuracy versus range in this regard. The Amarr come next, IMO, because range amplification will be better suited to when you don't have Caldari precision bonus. Last is Covert Uplink Deployment. Gallente are the stealthiest, Minmatar are the quickest, Caldari can see someone coming and avoid them. . . and Amarr have nothing. The other 3 can use their innate suit bonuses to get into a good location for uplinks, but the Amarr has nothing innate about it that leads to uplink deployment other then Uplinks have a high fitting cost. Going behind enemy lines to set up an offensive has been part of the Scout's in-game description for a long time. I think now would be the time to actually give them a bonus to this playstyle. Reducing the Scan Profile on Uplinks deployed by an Amarr Scout would be an amazing ability. All Scouts have 2 bonuses. Minmatar have Nova Knives and Hacking. Gallente have Scan Range and Scan Profile. Caldari have Scan Range and Scan Precision. The Amarr only have Stamina. I really think filing in the last spot of a Scout's description would give them a place in competitive play. They can use the slot layout and fitting advantages that they have to mimic other scout's forte while also providing a needed role on the battlefield. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia



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