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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1153	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:49:00 - [1] - Quote In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 321	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:04:00 - [2] - Quote Well for one the Combat Rifle is OP for sure. So automatically he gets the best rifle with higher damage. Also the fastest commando. That really is the main problem. It all lies in the combat rifle. Might I also add that the Rail Rifle Caldari Commando is very good. However the rail has issues against shiel scouts. Here is another problem. Hit detection issues on the shield scouts. Min and Cal. The CR seems to work better maybe because of faster fire rate. There is a definite issue with shield scouts that needs to be looked at. Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad *FIGHT THE POWER
Jenova Rhapsodos Fatal Absolution 463	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:09:00 - [3] - Quote Can't forget the damage increase to Mass Drivers too using a Min Commando, that's pretty nasty in the right hands. The Scrambler Rifle is dead, long live the Scrambler Rifle!
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 792	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:25:00 - [4] - Quote Do Min Commandos get bonuses to swarms? Dust/Eve transfers
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1157	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:28:00 - [5] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Do Min Commandos get bonuses to swarms? Yes. They do. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 792	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:44:00 - [6] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Do Min Commandos get bonuses to swarms? Yes. They do. Well, that's another compelling aspect. Bonuses to arguably the best light hitscan rifle, the best area effect and the best AV weapon. Dust/Eve transfers
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1158	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:49:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) I believe it is mostly due to their versatile choice of weapons when compared to the other suits. You get access to damage bonus for: - Combat Rifle (Medium Range Combat Weapon) - Mass Driver (Medium to Long Range Area Denial Weapon) - Swarm Launcher (Anti-Vehicle) Whereas the other Commandos suffer from a lack of versatility (possibly with the exception of the Gallente Commando). Gallente - Plasma Rifle (Medium to Short Range Combat Weapon) - Shotgun (Close Quarters Combat Weapon) - Plasma Cannon (Anti-vehicle) Caldari - Rail Rifle (Medium to Long Range Combat Weapon) - Sniper Rifle (Long Range Weapon) Amarr (Possibly the worst versatility of the lot) - Laser Rifle (Medium to Long Range Combat Weapon) - Scrambler Rifle (medium to Long Range Combat Weapon) So, in my opinion, the Minmatar Commando simply hits the right 'combination' of roles to be better utilised on the field. As to fixes... Firstly, changing Swarms to actually be 'Caldari' by making them Kinetic Damage and not explosive. Next, give each racial Commando Suit a bonused Anti-Vehicle Weapon. Possible ideas could include: - Anti-Material Rifle, for Minmatar. (Single Shot High Damage Sniper-like weapon. Requires a reload after each shot, but has extremely good range, and accuracy.) - Laser Blade, for Amarr. (Only going Melee to differ the different Suits. Laser does high damage, but requires you to be in Melee Range.) Note: Keep in mind the above ideas are just to illustrate the concept. Secondly. Ensure there is some role disparity in the weapons. Most especially in the case of the Amarr. They need 2 Light Weapons that fulfil 2 different roles, not simply a different way to perform the one role. And there needs to be parity. 3 Roles per suit. Also note: That the current Minmatar Weapons are slightly better by comparison than most other racial weapons. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
danie braz Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:02:00 - [8] - Quote Have you tested survivability and kill/death ratios. Maybe cal cmdo has lower death rate due to sniper rifle.
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 263	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:07:00 - [9] - Quote I don't have any heavy suits (except my templar) but if I skilled into a Commando, I'm pretty sure it'd be the Minmatar. (read the TL;DR parts too, they haz lists) I don't know if you guys have made any changes since release, but I used this for the values. Why Because the Minmatar Commando has the fastest movements speed (and stamina recharge rate), that means that assaults who just want a bit more base tank will take it instead of the other Commandos. It's also the most versatile since it has an equal number of High and Low slots, meaning it can be customized to fit a number of roles that would normally need you to skill into a second Commando suit. It has the second highest base shield recharge rate, meaning that they can get out of the battle faster because of the movement speed, and be back in faster than others because of the recharge rate. The racial bonus it gets helps it be even more versatile as well, by giving it a bonus to both projectile and explosive weapons, it can be used as anti infantry or anti-vehicle. TL;DR Assaults who want more base tank/2nd Light weapon use Minmatar Commando because it's base speed has the smallest change between Assault Mediums and the Commando Heavies. Fastest Commando 2nd highest stamina Fastest stamina recharge rate (25 stam/s more than Gallente and Caldari Commandos, 20 stam/s more than Amarr) 2nd fastest shield recharge rate Shield recharge delay is equal to Caldari Commando (tied for 1st) Equal High and Low slots means more versatile customization Bonus to projectile and explosive weapons means it gets bonus to anti-infantry and anti-vehicle weapons Balancing As for balancing, of the top of my head I think to lower the difference between their stamina recharge rates, maybe keep Minmatar the same but buff all the others by 5 stam/s. So Min = 40 stam/s, Cal = 20 stam/s, Gal = 20 stam/s, Amarr = 25 stam/s Messing with the Shield Recharge Delay and Depleted Shield Recharge Delay might also help bring them into balance. Making a change to the racial bonus might also affect it, but be careful, I know I'd get upset if my Mass Driver Commando (I'm being hypothetical, I'm not skilled into any Heavies) broke when the Devs tried to do something about dual purpose Minmatar Anti-Vehicle / Anti-Infantry fittings. Perhaps if the bonus only worked if it was the right weapon type AND the same race as the suit (that'd stop Swarms but not Mass Drivers)? I dunno, I'm just throwing it out there. TL;DR Buff all other Commandos Stamina recharge rates by 5, or lower Minmatar Stamina recharge rate by 5 Mess around with the Shield Recharge Delay and Depleted Shield Recharge Delays for all Commandos Change Racial bonus to only work with correct weapon types and also only if it's the same race as the suit. Recruiter Link thread
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10819	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:08:00 - [10] - Quote Ecshon Autorez wrote: I don't have any heavy suits (except my templar) but if I skilled into a Commando, I'm pretty sure it'd be the Minmatar. (read the TL;DR parts too, they haz lists) I don't know if you guys have made any changes since release, but I used this for the values. Why Because the Minmatar Commando has the fastest movements speed (and stamina recharge rate), that means that assaults who just want a bit more base tank will take it instead of the other Commandos. It's also the most versatile since it has an equal number of High and Low slots, meaning it can be customized to fit a number of roles that would normally need you to skill into a second Commando suit. It has the second highest base shield recharge rate, meaning that they can get out of the battle faster because of the movement speed, and be back in faster than others because of the recharge rate. The racial bonus it gets helps it be even more versatile as well, by giving it a bonus to both projectile and explosive weapons, it can be used as anti infantry or anti-vehicle. TL;DR Assaults who want more base tank/2nd Light weapon use Minmatar Commando because it's base speed has the smallest change between Assault Mediums and the Commando Heavies. Fastest Commando 2nd highest stamina Fastest stamina recharge rate (25 stam/s more than Gallente and Caldari Commandos, 20 stam/s more than Amarr) 2nd fastest shield recharge rate Shield recharge delay is equal to Caldari Commando (tied for 1st) Equal High and Low slots means more versatile customization Bonus to projectile and explosive weapons means it gets bonus to anti-infantry and anti-vehicle weapons Balancing As for balancing, of the top of my head I think to lower the difference between their stamina recharge rates, maybe keep Minmatar the same but buff all the others by 5 stam/s. So Min = 40 stam/s, Cal = 20 stam/s, Gal = 20 stam/s, Amarr = 25 stam/s Messing with the Shield Recharge Delay and Depleted Shield Recharge Delay might also help bring them into balance. Making a change to the racial bonus might also affect it, but be careful, I know I'd get upset if my Mass Driver Commando (I'm being hypothetical, I'm not skilled into any Heavies) broke when the Devs tried to do something about dual purpose Minmatar Anti-Vehicle / Anti-Infantry fittings. Perhaps if the bonus only worked if it was the right weapon type AND the same race as the suit (that'd stop Swarms but not Mass Drivers)? I dunno, I'm just throwing it out there. TL;DR Buff all other Commandos Stamina recharge rates by 5, or lower Minmatar Stamina recharge rate by 5 Mess around with the Shield Recharge Delay and Depleted Shield Recharge Delays for all Commandos Change Racial bonus to only work with correct weapon types and also only if it's the same race as the suit. Most speed, 2nd most stamina, most stamina recharge, and 2nd fastest shield recharge are attributes that completely make sense for the Minmatar; speed, stamina, and stamina recharge rate stats are basically the Minmatar's intended strengths which they trade HP for, and as the 2nd best shield-tanking race it only makes sense to have the second best shield recharge rate. I don't think those are problems. These things, including the equal high and low slots are also the case for the Minmatar scout I believe, but it doesn't make the Minmatar scout OP by comparison to other scouts. The Caldari commando however does indeed need to have shorter regular and depleted shield recharge delay than the Minmatar; Caldari are meant to be the best shield tankers. A large part of the reason why so many use the Minmatar commando is because of the combat rifle being being overpowered, not the suit itself. In addtion to the combat rifle's extreme damage per second, projectiles have very unbalanced damage profile. Most weapon types have their shield/armor penalties/advantages add up to 0 (like laser has +20% to shields, -20% to armor, adds up to 0), projectiles have a profile with a net 5% gain. The key to commando balance is rifle balance. I do agree that as a Caldari weapon, the swarm launcher should no receive a bonus from the Minmatar commando, but instead should get a bonus to the Caldari commando. Reclassify the swarm launcher damage profile from "explosive" to "missile", and give Caldari commando a bonus to "missile" weapon damage in addition to hybrid-railgun. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 266	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:43:00 - [11] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Most speed, 2nd most stamina, most stamina recharge, and 2nd fastest shield recharge are attributes that completely make sense for the Minmatar; speed, stamina, and stamina recharge rate stats are basically the Minmatar's intended strengths which they trade HP for, and as the 2nd best shield-tanking race it only makes sense to have the second best shield recharge rate. I don't think those are problems. I didn't say they needed changing, I was just pointing out that they're some of the reasons why people use Minmatar Commandos more than the others. They should definitely have the fastest stamina recharge, but the difference between the stamina recharge of the Minmatar Commando and the stamina recharge of the others is just ridiculous. Caldari : 15 stam/s Gallente : 15 stam/s Minmatar : 40 stam/s Amarr : 20 stam/s Recruiter Link thread
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2035	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:15:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) The key tactical value of the Commando is it's 2x light weapons and finding synergy between them. With the Combat Rifle out performing the other weapons in its class and the MD being a rather unique tactical asset, none of the other races offer a weapon combination which can compete. Scale back the rifle to proper levels as a first measure and assess further from there because at present the Min Commando in essence takes the place of stacked damage mods + a TAR in prior builds and that allure will be hard to overcome without a touch up to the CR in light of the recent changes to TTK. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3331	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:24:00 - [13] - Quote The answer is very simple. Has nothing to do with slots, recharge, etc. The speed is nice, but it all comes down to bonuses to the CR plus an explosive weapon, either MD or swarms. No other commando gives you that kind of flexibility - 3 weapons, all with very different roles. (That, importantly, they are very good at - see galmando) If the PLC and AR weren't so horribly UP, you'd see more galmandos. If the calmando got a bonus to swarms and the RR, it would instantly rival the minmatar in popularity. Amarrian weapons just overlap too much, it makes the bonus less useful than the others. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1226	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:45:00 - [14] - Quote The CR is probably a big reason for it. I'm actually surprised the Minmatar is the most common, the Gallente was the most common one I saw.. Though they always had a RR, which I never got. I think your AR buff and CR nerf will help tremendously. The Amarr should be super popular with the Imperial Ak.0 having those 3 weapon slots still. Curious its not... I think I'm over Dust now...
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2038	Posted - 2014.05.18 04:50:00 - [15] - Quote Couple things at work here: Weapon Options Minmatar Commando simply gets the best spread of weapons that make sense for mixed combat, namely the Combat Rifle and Mass Driver. They're both fairly flexible weapons that work well to cover each others weaknesses and makes the Minmatar commando extremely flexible. In addition they have two different damage types which makes it even more flexible given the target. Gallente gets the Plasma Rifle which is pretty weak in comparison to the Combat Rifle, and their other options are Shotgun (which is not very useful due to the relatively low suit speed) or the Plasma Cannon which is well...a joke. Amarr gets Scrambler Rifle and Laser Rifle which honestly fill similar roles as medium range weapons, so having one of each isn't particularly useful. Caldari gets the rail rifle and sniper rifle, and while both of these weapons are long range combat, they represent totally different playstyles. I think it would be rare to find a player who wishes they could switch between sniping and long range assaulting on the fly. In short, the weapons available to Minmatar Commando compliment each other extremely well and allow the user to fulfill a number of roles at the same time, making it the ideal platform for the flexible combat the Commando is designed for. Similarity to Assault Suit The Minmatar Commando is the lowest health, highest speed Heavy-Class suit in the game. This means that it is the closest to being a Medium/Assault suit out of all the Heavy suits. This paired with good reload and damage bonuses, it makes the the Minmatar Commando behave very much like a tanky, high damage Assault suit. In my opinion, this is more how Assault suits SHOULD operate. In many ways the Assaults are the little brother to the Commando and their roles are very similar to a point of redundancy. If anything I think future Assault suits should have bonuses much like the Commando, with more speed and less health, but the damage bonuses to that race's racial weapon. Giving Assaults two light weapons and phasing out the Commando role would give Assaults a unique advantage, securing a more defined role in the battlefield. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2361	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:44:00 - [16] - Quote I think the minmatar speed is fine where it is. Its the bonus damage to armor weapons and a high rof assault variant makes it good in a lot of situations. Armor is the meta atm, so anti-armor weapons on a fast suit make the min commando a kind of anti meta. ----The small thing is that the advantage of speed is overlooked in that covering ground fast can make up for radar blindness. Radar blindness combined with poor speed makes much slower suits very vulnerable in the open. The min speed mitigates that greatly. ----Additionally the bonus to the swarm launcher helps it too. ----If you tweak up the assault rifle, it could fix the usefullness of the gal commando right where it needs to be with a fast reload and a harder hitting set of rifles/shotty. Maybe a secondary benefit to the gal commando could be a scan precision bonus or buff so that it could run shotgun and at least fairly easily see medium suits at shotgun range on its radar. ---Perhaps the caldari commando could also see a bonus to scanning, but more put it into a kind of AV/alternate scout role. You could increase its base scan range to 45m but with a base precision of 55 so that it'd have to fit multiple precision mods to see max skills medium suits and it'd be pretty difficult to see anything dampened. And/or you could give it an alternate swarm bonus to lock on time-15% SL lock time per level. --last is amarr commando. It doesn't see tons of usefullness because the HP it offers can't really compare to the gal commando as a weapon platform because the anti-shield meta just doesn't favor it atm. I think giving it's shield something unique like shield impairment damage would be the equivalent of giving it a resist mod for its armor. If you made it so it could take lots of small incidental fire, then as a platform taking fire at long range, it would be VERY deadly. Alternatively, you could give the same effect by bonusing armor repair rate, but that doesn't really fit the racial meta.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 322	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:55:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) There are used because of speed and you have to understand a large amount of the player base skilled deep into mass drivers way back when. Now they are extremely viable again with the Min-Com suit. So a lot of people, during the respec, spec'd into it so they can finally see some extra umph from the MD. I honestly believe that is the primary reason. It's because it is effectively a double buff in that the MD was buffed and then the Min Com buffs it again. and a lot of people skilled into it way back when. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13482	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:40:00 - [18] - Quote Basically because it has everything. It has a bonus to the best rifle in the game. It has a bonus to the best light AV in the game. If not using AV as a secondary, it has access to another good primary that compliments the CR very well. It has the highest speed of commandos, meaning that unlike most heavy class dropsuits it's not as restrictive. It has excellent base HP and the regen is pretty decent. It has a reload bonus - swarms are held back by the reload, the reload bonus helps this immensely. In terms of base HP it also has more shield HP. While armour is certainly the meta due to the easy stacking of armour plates (You have another thread up about that) 1 shield HP is more valuable than 1 armour HP due to how readily it regens. EDIT: Out of curiosity, what is the order that commandos come in for frequency of use? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:42:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) The Commandos are heavily dependent on their weapons, currently we have a very limited selection of weapons form each race and from this pool of light weapons you'll find most of them cover the same areas in combat, Min-commandos have access to the largest selection of build possibility's due to them having a far more versatile set of weapons to use with their bonus skill. My solution, we need more guns and these new guns need to do more than shoot in a straight line.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1184	Posted - 2014.05.18 10:24:00 - [20] - Quote Thanks guys, this is been a great source of information. I guess my main take away is the swarm bonus which does make more sense as a caldari and the CR needing a tweak, and a few additional improvements. Arkena, the current use is Minmatar Gallente Caldari Amarr We are going to come back with a holistic view of the next patch and see if we can't fix a few things this round. I will still make a sticky and keep an eye out for additional info. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Starfire Revo DUST University Ivy League 258	Posted - 2014.05.18 10:49:00 - [21] - Quote Other people have covered the main benefits, but I'd like to add a couple more points. The Min commando has the most versatile slot layout and with it's high base stats, you don't have to stack hp mods to survive. Also because of things like the 240 base melee damage, you can do derp fits like cloak+myofibrils+damps and run around insta-killing everyone. This on top of everything else is what makes the suit so good. What you could do to improve the situation for other suits? Make swarms into a kinetic weapon so that the Caldari get a bonus to them and change the breach mass driver into an "AV" weapon with no penalty against vehicles and the capability to block shield regen. Maybe something similar with a laser rifle variant that has lower damage but no penalty against vehicles and blocks shield regen would also give the Amarr it's own AV weapon. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Poultryge1st Da Short Buss RISE of LEGION 82	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:29:00 - [22] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: Other people have covered the main benefits, but I'd like to add a couple more points. The Min commando has the most versatile slot layout and with it's high base stats, you don't have to stack hp mods to survive. Also because of things like the 240 base melee damage, you can do derp fits like cloak+myofibrils+damps and run around insta-killing everyone. This on top of everything else is what makes the suit so good. What you could do to improve the situation for other suits? Make swarms into a kinetic weapon so that the Caldari get a bonus to them and change the breach mass driver into an "AV" weapon with no penalty against vehicles and the capability to block shield regen. Maybe something similar with a laser rifle variant that has lower damage but no penalty against vehicles and blocks shield regen would also give the Amarr it's own AV weapon. I really like the idea of changing the breach MD to an AV weapon!
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:03:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks guys, this is been a great source of information. I guess my main take away is the swarm bonus which does make more sense as a caldari and the CR needing a tweak, and a few additional improvements. Arkena, the current use is Minmatar Gallente Caldari Amarr We are going to come back with a holistic view of the next patch and see if we can't fix a few things this round. I will still make a sticky and keep an eye out for additional info. Damn it I love my Amarr Commando. But I also die a lot :) defenitely it is the weapon selection and speed that make minmando the most prefered. I think it is more the speed. the main problem of armando is the speed. Amarr has the laser which an excelent weapon and the AScR for close range. the main problem is that ScR has very low dmg vs armour. May be make the prof instead ot 3% vs shields to 2% vs shield and armour. I would advice for Commando to add one more slot or to increase the bonus dmg from 2% to 3% per lvl. Decrease the scan profile to 55. increase the base speed: Amarr to 4, gal and cal to 4.10, min keep it at 4.25. Now min Commando has almost the same speed as Amarr logi ??? with the passive bonus from biotics it will be: amarr 4,2 gal and cal 4.3 min 4.46 I am surprised about galmando because of the terrible weapon selections but once TAC and plasma cannon are fixet it will be vialble
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13486	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:09:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks guys, this is been a great source of information. I guess my main take away is the swarm bonus which does make more sense as a caldari and the CR needing a tweak, and a few additional improvements. Arkena, the current use is Minmatar Gallente Caldari Amarr We are going to come back with a holistic view of the next patch and see if we can't fix a few things this round. I will still make a sticky and keep an eye out for additional info. Thank you. You noted in the OP that the Minmando was 'by far' the most commonly used. Are there any significant gaps between the others? Do the other three have small usage gaps between them, or are there any other big gaps? At a guess I'd say that the Amarr is by far the least used, because of the relative difficulty in using weapons with overheat. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:28:00 - [25] - Quote superjoe360x wrote: Well for one the Combat Rifle is OP for sure. So automatically he gets the best rifle with higher damage. Also the fastest commando. That really is the main problem. It all lies in the combat rifle. I couldn't disagree more. If you want to be a slow heavy suit with a projectile weapon at CQC, USE A SENTINEL WITH AN HMG like everybody else. When I come across these and mow them down like they're nothing it's seriously pathetic. Bottom line if a Minmatar Commando wants to use a CR he should stick to medium range, and if the enemy can't avoid that then they are bad at this game, or they were out in the open and deserve to be picked off just like anyone else. CCP Rattati wrote: Minmatar Gallente Caldari Amarr I just want to say that someone in my corp is Amarr with a Scrambler Rifle and he is very good with it. Honestly people probably aren't using it because everyone's so wrapped up in wanting to be a cloaked scout or just want to go classic Sentinel instead. All of the commandos are great now, the damage bonus has made them viable even in PC. The Gallente is often used with a shotgun and speaking from experience although I'm not a Commando I'm sure the Assault Rifle would be deadly in their hands. The Caldari is an extremely deadly sniper and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, because its weakness is not being a stealthy sniper and can be countersniped easily. The Amarr gets a damage bonus to the highest DPS light weapon in the game, the Scrambler rifle, so there is also nothing wrong with this in my opinion. I think Assault class needs a lot more love than Commandos right now. I'd like to know how many people are skilled into Assault compared to everything else. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13486	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:37:00 - [26] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: All of the commandos are great now, the damage bonus has made them viable even in PC. Um. Do you play PC? Quote: I think Assault class needs a lot more love than Commandos right now. I'd like to know how many people are skilled into Assault compared to everything else. I concur. But to me this thread is about correcting imbalances within the class, not correcting imbalances between the class and others. CCP Rattati has specifically been talking about how frequently they are used compared to each other, not to the other classes. Although... Rattati, might I ask what the usage order of -all classes- is? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 328	Posted - 2014.05.18 14:36:00 - [27] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: All of the commandos are great now, the damage bonus has made them viable even in PC. Um. Do you play PC? Quote: I think Assault class needs a lot more love than Commandos right now. I'd like to know how many people are skilled into Assault compared to everything else. I concur. But to me this thread is about correcting imbalances within the class, not correcting imbalances between the class and others. CCP Rattati has specifically been talking about how frequently they are used compared to each other, not to the other classes. Although... Rattati, might I ask what the usage order of -all classes- is? Yeah in PC currently you have mostly scouts, then some heavies and logis thrown in there. Tanks and ADS. That's about it. Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad *FIGHT THE POWER
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2422	Posted - 2014.05.18 14:42:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) Combat Rifle is OP. We all know this. You should know this. In my opinion, the buff to MD was unnecessary. Continued to be increased in power through the commando's skill. It gives a bonus to Projectile and Explosive damage. Which means that Caldari Swarm Launchers get a bonus on Minmatar Commando suit. AV being as underpowered as it is needs every advantage it can get. They also have the greatest movement speed. This game is based on who has the best DDR skills. The higher movement rate is, the better your suit is at dancing. Looking at the 4 racial variants Minmatar is number 1 because combat rifle and movement speed Gallente is number 2 because of its ability to armor tank and the prevalence of Chromo/early Uprising players having proto ARs Caldari is number 3 because it is incredibly PG deficient. Caldari is the second highest PG weapons with High Slot focus when high slot modules have a higher PG requirement at well Amarr is last because of the use of Scrambler Rifle and Laser Rifles. They are too niche for the types of players that went Commando. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1333	Posted - 2014.05.18 14:42:00 - [29] - Quote Speed and fitting with excellent hp values. Bonuses to the best rifle' swwrms and the only area of denial weapon makes it better equiped at what an assault suit should feel like.... TBH i feel its because everyone has a sof spot for it. It looks amazing. Anyway i want to go amarr because i need a long range weapon lazors XD. That bonus is what im going for Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1054	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:03:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) The amarr commando has many many issues. 1) it is nearly as slow as the minmatar sentinel. This makes positioning for the amarr weaponry really difficult. 2) It has a choice of two weapons that it has bonuses too, these weapons overheat insanely quickly on the amarr commando. Due to overheat mechanics, and wanting to actually use the suit bonuses, the best option I have found is just to fit two scrambler rifles and really pay attention to overheating. Also, never ever use a charge shot with this suit. 3) There is no versatility here. The two amarrian light weapons fill a similar niche, and the commando has no decent AV capabilities due to having no bonused AV. 4) Fitting. The scrambler is far and away the hardest weapon to fit, yet it is the only real option for use on the amarr commando. This means that the amarr commando is going to have less fitting options while being less effective with amarr weapons than the assault, slower than the assault, easier to hit than the assault, and less versatile. Honestly the way commandos would see to work is to allow you to fill two assault roles in one, but you sacrifice mobility and versatility to do so. This is not supported by the limited weapon selection and the high fitting requirements of amarrian light weaponry. Fixing swarms

shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2147	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:32:00 - [31] - Quote Imo, all Commando should have more agility, it's not cool to share the same paths with heavies, we should be able to jump over little railings, especially if we are not tanked. PSN: ogamega I'm here to bla bla bla...
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1434	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:22:00 - [32] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Looking at the 4 racial variants Minmatar is number 1 because combat rifle and movement speed Gallente is number 2 because of its ability to armor tank and the prevalence of Chromo/early Uprising players having proto ARs Caldari is number 3 because it is incredibly PG deficient. Caldari is the second highest PG weapons with High Slot focus when high slot modules have a higher PG requirement at well Amarr is last because of the use of Scrambler Rifle and Laser Rifles. They are too niche for the types of players that went Commando. I have never seen anyone using the Gal Commando with an AR. But that is an issue with the weapon not the Commando. No, people use the Gal Commando because of the HP potential. The Cal Commando would definitely benefit from a boost to its shield recharge delay but be careful not to make it faster than then Cal Heavy as this would definitely make it OP. Fun > Realism
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 447	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:26:00 - [33] - Quote Personally, I'm in love with the Gallente Commando. AR + Shotgun is a monster in direct engagements, even against multiple enemies, and allows me to adjust to different distances on the fly while closing in. You don't need to be the fastest dude when you engage in the right environment. And equipping swarmer + PLC makes for an awesome one-two punch against vehicles. The PLC is almost good with the reload speed increase, because it directly affects the re-fire rate. I can even use prox mines to trap vehicles with my single suit. It's the first time since 1.7 that I've been able to engage tanks on even grounds. I wish the Assault bonus was even half as useful. Why can't it get a more melee-focused bonus? Lowering dispersion is actually a disadvantage for a Gallente. However, the swarmer + PLC combo applies equally to the Minmatar Commando, due to the explosive damage bonus. It would help if that was instead a Caldari-based bonus, due to swarmers being Caldari. Edit: I'm running everything, aside from the AR, at standard. My AR is adv. I murder everyone in a fair fight, as long as I'm not outranged.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3334	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:28:00 - [34] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) The amarr commando has many many issues. 1) it is nearly as slow as the minmatar sentinel. This makes positioning for the amarr weaponry really difficult. 2) It has a choice of two weapons that it has bonuses too, these weapons overheat insanely quickly on the amarr commando. Due to overheat mechanics, and wanting to actually use the suit bonuses, the best option I have found is just to fit two scrambler rifles and really pay attention to overheating. Also, never ever use a charge shot with this suit. 3) There is no versatility here. The two amarrian light weapons fill a similar niche, and the commando has no decent AV capabilities due to having no bonused AV. 4) Fitting. The scrambler is far and away the hardest weapon to fit, yet it is the only real option for use on the amarr commando. This means that the amarr commando is going to have less fitting options while being less effective with amarr weapons than the assault, slower than the assault, easier to hit than the assault, and less versatile. Honestly the way commandos would see to work is to allow you to fill two assault roles in one, but you sacrifice mobility and versatility to do so. This is not supported by the limited weapon selection and the high fitting requirements of amarrian light weaponry. This reminds me, one thing that should be pointed out is that since the Amarr assault has the best bonus in it's class, I'm guessing it's still used quite a bit and may decrease adoption of the commando by people who like laser weapons. The Amarr assault bonus is unquestionably more powerful with the LR, the math is pretty straightforward and it's not even close. I'm not as sure about the ScR but I'm betting it's not as big a difference but still the same situation. Reducing overheat is much more important than a simple damage buff! Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Theresa Rohk The Cuddlefish Templis CALSF 49	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:28:00 - [35] - Quote Oh Good, CCP has outsourced their design department to the forums. Surely this will go well. Jesus, do you guys have so few ideas that you're hitting up the community for them now?
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3334	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:30:00 - [36] - Quote Theresa Rohk wrote: Oh Good, CCP has outsourced their design department to the forums. Surely this will go well. Jesus, do you guys have so few ideas that you're hitting up the community for them now? Considering CCP's track record, it's probably the better choice, tbh. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:36:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) Dont touch my commando nobody was complaining about it.I chose it because it has good stamina and it has a bonus to the mass driver my best weapon.Just buff the other commandos im sick of nerfs.And can you guys look into the amaar logi bonus? when i switch to a different suit the droplinks i dropped as an amaar logi Lose their bonus.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3334	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:44:00 - [38] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) Dont touch my commando nobody was complaining about it.I chose it because it has good stamina and it has a bonus to the mass driver my best weapon.Just buff the other commandos im sick of nerfs.And can you guys look into the amaar logi bonus? when i switch to a different suit the droplinks i dropped as an amaar logi Lose their bonus. This thread is only for commando issues, please keep on topic. Also, as I said in the other thread you mentioned this in, that's how the bonus is supposed to work. You only get the bonus if you are in an Amarr logi suit at the time, not when you dropped it. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 521	Posted - 2014.05.18 22:45:00 - [39] - Quote The main thing that makes the CR OP is the ability to do about twice the DPS (of the other rifles) with fast tapping (feathering?/turbo?). It sounds like a buzz-saw. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
God Hates Lags The Last of DusT. 1144	Posted - 2014.05.19 00:08:00 - [40] - Quote I have all the commandos at 5 and to be honest, the problem is lack of weapon variety. The commandos themselves are pretty balanced to my mind, the problem is that only the min actually has two weapons to use. Minmatar can use either a combat rifle and a mass driver or two combat rifles. The first compensates well for the commando's lack of a grenade slot gives good variety to the role. The second compensates for the combat rifles low magazine and ammo count, easily its biggest drawback. Gallente can use two AR's but really you aren't gaining much from using them. Clips are high already and with the lowest range you're still functioning within a very limited role. Plasma cannon is pointless since its a OHK already, and the gallente is too slow to use shotgun effectively. Besides, the 10% bonus doesn't make a lot of difference in the shotgun kill time anyway. The charge time on the Rail rifle makes stacking two of them on the Caldari Commando a pointless exercise. A sniper rifle is handy and I use this commando a lot when countersniping but overall it's a very limited role. Amarr commando to me is the oddball of the lot. Laser rifle and Scrambler rifle have too similar ranges. Stacking them seems redundant or at the very least to make a very minor difference. Stacking dual Scrambler rifles is a better combination to my mind because it compensates for overheat, but with a scrambler rilfle you really need speed to strafe with a target and as the slowest commando, the Amarr just doesn't have that. "Look what I destroyed in two days" Kane Spero


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1222	Posted - 2014.05.19 00:14:00 - [41] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: I have all the commandos at 5 and to be honest, the problem is lack of weapon variety. The commandos themselves are pretty balanced to my mind, the problem is that only the min actually has two weapons to use. Minmatar can use either a combat rifle and a mass driver or two combat rifles. The first compensates well for the commando's lack of a grenade slot gives good variety to the role. The second compensates for the combat rifles low magazine and ammo count, easily its biggest drawback. Gallente can use two AR's but really you aren't gaining much from using them. Clips are high already and with the lowest range you're still functioning within a very limited role. Plasma cannon is pointless since its a OHK already, and the gallente is too slow to use shotgun effectively. Besides, the 10% bonus doesn't make a lot of difference in the shotgun kill time anyway. The charge time on the Rail rifle makes stacking two of them on the Caldari Commando a pointless exercise. A sniper rifle is handy and I use this commando a lot when countersniping but overall it's a very limited role. Amarr commando to me is the oddball of the lot. Laser rifle and Scrambler rifle have too similar ranges. Stacking them seems redundant or at the very least to make a very minor difference. Stacking dual Scrambler rifles is a better combination to my mind because it compensates for overheat, but with a scrambler rilfle you really need speed to strafe with a target and as the slowest commando, the Amarr just doesn't have that. Can the scrambler be (simply)made a little more effective in the mid range? Other than that, we think it may course correct if shield v armor tanking becomes a little more balanced and we see more shield tankers out there. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 172	Posted - 2014.05.19 00:46:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: I have all the commandos at 5 and to be honest, the problem is lack of weapon variety. The commandos themselves are pretty balanced to my mind, the problem is that only the min actually has two weapons to use. Minmatar can use either a combat rifle and a mass driver or two combat rifles. The first compensates well for the commando's lack of a grenade slot gives good variety to the role. The second compensates for the combat rifles low magazine and ammo count, easily its biggest drawback. Gallente can use two AR's but really you aren't gaining much from using them. Clips are high already and with the lowest range you're still functioning within a very limited role. Plasma cannon is pointless since its a OHK already, and the gallente is too slow to use shotgun effectively. Besides, the 10% bonus doesn't make a lot of difference in the shotgun kill time anyway. The charge time on the Rail rifle makes stacking two of them on the Caldari Commando a pointless exercise. A sniper rifle is handy and I use this commando a lot when countersniping but overall it's a very limited role. Amarr commando to me is the oddball of the lot. Laser rifle and Scrambler rifle have too similar ranges. Stacking them seems redundant or at the very least to make a very minor difference. Stacking dual Scrambler rifles is a better combination to my mind because it compensates for overheat, but with a scrambler rilfle you really need speed to strafe with a target and as the slowest commando, the Amarr just doesn't have that. Can the scrambler be (simply)made a little more effective in the mid range? Other than that, we think it may course correct if shield v armor tanking becomes a little more balanced and we see more shield tankers out there. That would risk unbalancing the Amarr Assault; it's in a pretty good place at the moment and I think a buff to the ScR would push it over the edge. I think that increasing shield tanking viability would be a far better fix, tbh. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3338	Posted - 2014.05.19 01:46:00 - [43] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: I have all the commandos at 5 and to be honest, the problem is lack of weapon variety. The commandos themselves are pretty balanced to my mind, the problem is that only the min actually has two weapons to use. Minmatar can use either a combat rifle and a mass driver or two combat rifles. The first compensates well for the commando's lack of a grenade slot gives good variety to the role. The second compensates for the combat rifles low magazine and ammo count, easily its biggest drawback. Gallente can use two AR's but really you aren't gaining much from using them. Clips are high already and with the lowest range you're still functioning within a very limited role. Plasma cannon is pointless since its a OHK already, and the gallente is too slow to use shotgun effectively. Besides, the 10% bonus doesn't make a lot of difference in the shotgun kill time anyway. The charge time on the Rail rifle makes stacking two of them on the Caldari Commando a pointless exercise. A sniper rifle is handy and I use this commando a lot when countersniping but overall it's a very limited role. Amarr commando to me is the oddball of the lot. Laser rifle and Scrambler rifle have too similar ranges. Stacking them seems redundant or at the very least to make a very minor difference. Stacking dual Scrambler rifles is a better combination to my mind because it compensates for overheat, but with a scrambler rilfle you really need speed to strafe with a target and as the slowest commando, the Amarr just doesn't have that. Can the scrambler be (simply)made a little more effective in the mid range? Other than that, we think it may course correct if shield v armor tanking becomes a little more balanced and we see more shield tankers out there. That would risk unbalancing the Amarr Assault; it's in a pretty good place at the moment and I think a buff to the ScR would push it over the edge. I think that increasing shield tanking viability would be a far better fix, tbh. Personally, I still don't think that would make a big difference with the Commando suit (obviously it would with the ScR), because I just don't see there being enough difference between the two laser weapons even with that change. Ok, so one is more effective at midrange now (which tbh if you are good with it, and I am not even very good, it's quite effective there already). So what? The range difference doesn't add enough versatility to make the suit more attractive than it currently is - one midrange and one long range weapon, both of the same type, is not comparable to the CR/MD, RR and sniper/swarms, even the AR/PLC. Those combinations actually allow you to fulfill 2 truly distinct roles. LR/ScR does not. You would have to add an Amarr AV weapon or something (which I know we cant do... sigh...) to do it. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 296	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:33:00 - [44] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: I have all the commandos at 5 and to be honest, the problem is lack of weapon variety. The commandos themselves are pretty balanced to my mind, the problem is that only the min actually has two weapons to use. Minmatar can use either a combat rifle and a mass driver or two combat rifles. The first compensates well for the commando's lack of a grenade slot gives good variety to the role. The second compensates for the combat rifles low magazine and ammo count, easily its biggest drawback. Gallente can use two AR's but really you aren't gaining much from using them. Clips are high already and with the lowest range you're still functioning within a very limited role. Plasma cannon is pointless since its a OHK already, and the gallente is too slow to use shotgun effectively. Besides, the 10% bonus doesn't make a lot of difference in the shotgun kill time anyway. The charge time on the Rail rifle makes stacking two of them on the Caldari Commando a pointless exercise. A sniper rifle is handy and I use this commando a lot when countersniping but overall it's a very limited role. Amarr commando to me is the oddball of the lot. Laser rifle and Scrambler rifle have too similar ranges. Stacking them seems redundant or at the very least to make a very minor difference. Stacking dual Scrambler rifles is a better combination to my mind because it compensates for overheat, but with a scrambler rilfle you really need speed to strafe with a target and as the slowest commando, the Amarr just doesn't have that. Can the scrambler be (simply)made a little more effective in the mid range? Other than that, we think it may course correct if shield v armor tanking becomes a little more balanced and we see more shield tankers out there. That would risk unbalancing the Amarr Assault; it's in a pretty good place at the moment and I think a buff to the ScR would push it over the edge. I think that increasing shield tanking viability would be a far better fix, tbh. yes. fix/balance shield tanking
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 23	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:43:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: I have all the commandos at 5 and to be honest, the problem is lack of weapon variety. The commandos themselves are pretty balanced to my mind, the problem is that only the min actually has two weapons to use. Minmatar can use either a combat rifle and a mass driver or two combat rifles. The first compensates well for the commando's lack of a grenade slot gives good variety to the role. The second compensates for the combat rifles low magazine and ammo count, easily its biggest drawback. Gallente can use two AR's but really you aren't gaining much from using them. Clips are high already and with the lowest range you're still functioning within a very limited role. Plasma cannon is pointless since its a OHK already, and the gallente is too slow to use shotgun effectively. Besides, the 10% bonus doesn't make a lot of difference in the shotgun kill time anyway. The charge time on the Rail rifle makes stacking two of them on the Caldari Commando a pointless exercise. A sniper rifle is handy and I use this commando a lot when countersniping but overall it's a very limited role. Amarr commando to me is the oddball of the lot. Laser rifle and Scrambler rifle have too similar ranges. Stacking them seems redundant or at the very least to make a very minor difference. Stacking dual Scrambler rifles is a better combination to my mind because it compensates for overheat, but with a scrambler rilfle you really need speed to strafe with a target and as the slowest commando, the Amarr just doesn't have that. Can the scrambler be (simply)made a little more effective in the mid range? Other than that, we think it may course correct if shield v armor tanking becomes a little more balanced and we see more shield tankers out there. And speed. Speed is everything. Give commando more speed specially Amarr.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2799	Posted - 2014.05.19 06:12:00 - [46] - Quote I wanted to comment on why I find commandos sub par. I believe that the main problem is the "negative spiral" that is caused by high rate of fire weapons slow down effect and commandos big hitbox. Let me illustrate: You get hit -> Move slower -> Easier to hit/apply damage to/slow down even more. I actually die quicker on my untanked gallente commando than on my tanked gallente scout (not fully brick tanked, 1 complex plate usually). Heavy/sentinels offset this issue with higher shield/armor, resistances and naturally slower movement speed (Im guessing slow down effect is a scale factor rather than a subtracted value). The solution to this problem is to either remove the slow down effect or tone it down on heavier frames with the motivation that heavy objects moving in a certain direction with a velocity is not affected as much as light objects by small arms gunfire. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 447	Posted - 2014.05.19 07:39:00 - [47] - Quote This makes me think: How does Amarr Commando armor compare to other Commandos? It might help to give them a nice armor and stamina boost.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 298	Posted - 2014.05.19 07:42:00 - [48] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Couple things at work here: Weapon Options Minmatar Commando simply gets the best spread of weapons that make sense for mixed combat, namely the Combat Rifle and Mass Driver. They're both fairly flexible weapons that work well to cover each others weaknesses and makes the Minmatar commando extremely flexible. In addition they have two different damage types which makes it even more flexible given the target. Gallente gets the Plasma Rifle which is pretty weak in comparison to the Combat Rifle, and their other options are Shotgun (which is not very useful due to the relatively low suit speed) or the Plasma Cannon which is well...a joke. Amarr gets Scrambler Rifle and Laser Rifle which honestly fill similar roles as medium range weapons, so having one of each isn't particularly useful. Caldari gets the rail rifle and sniper rifle, and while both of these weapons are long range combat, they represent totally different playstyles. I think it would be rare to find a player who wishes they could switch between sniping and long range assaulting on the fly. In short, the weapons available to Minmatar Commando compliment each other extremely well and allow the user to fulfill a number of roles at the same time, making it the ideal platform for the flexible combat the Commando is designed for. Similarity to Assault Suit The Minmatar Commando is the lowest health, highest speed Heavy-Class suit in the game. This means that it is the closest to being a Medium/Assault suit out of all the Heavy suits. This paired with good reload and damage bonuses, it makes the the Minmatar Commando behave very much like a tanky, high damage Assault suit. In my opinion, this is more how Assault suits SHOULD operate. In many ways the Assaults are the little brother to the Commando and their roles are very similar to a point of redundancy. If anything I think future Assault suits should have bonuses much like the Commando, with more speed and less health, but the damage bonuses to that race's racial weapon. Giving Assaults two light weapons and phasing out the Commando role would give Assaults a unique advantage, securing a more defined role in the battlefield. i run RR and sniper rifles on my cal cmdo. i use the RR for general purpose combat and turn open fields and roads into my kill zones. anything i cant hit with the RR gets the sniper rifle. any time i see a sniper rifle in the kill feed, i just switch to my sniper rifle and take him out. free kill imo. then i go back to the RR. works perfect for me. and i hardly die obviously lol. ive literally sat on the objective in a dom match and defended it by myself simply because i was surrounded by open areas. no one could get close enough to me. only thing i wish was the shield delay was buff a bit since it's the same as the min cmdo
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 799	Posted - 2014.05.19 10:59:00 - [49] - Quote I would definitely recommend looking at what popular weapon combos are used across all commandos (in addition to each specific race). I chose Amarr simply because I had already skilled into Amarr sentinel and it was more economical SP wise. I also didn't put more thought into it than that. I then experimented with different weapon combinations. After a while I found that my favorite combination was a rifle as primary and a mass driver as secondary. It didn't matter what type of rifle, always a mass driver though. So as an afterthought, the Minmatar commando would have been a better choice for my play style. But since the laser and scrambler rifle are shield based they match well with a mass driver, so I don't regret my choice too much. Ashes to ashes, Dust to PC.
Ground Zero420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2014.05.19 11:07:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) Gall Commando w/ duvolle/shotgun=lulz Cal Commando w rr/sniper = wtf is that Winmatar w cbr/swarms/massdriver= more scenarios it is useful in. Amar w scr/laser= death from afar Spartan mk420

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 299	Posted - 2014.05.19 11:41:00 - [51] - Quote Ground Zero420 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In short, Minmatar Commandos are by far the most commonly used currently. Please discuss why, and come up with tweaking suggestions to make them more aligned with his brethren (that includes buffing the other three) Gall Commando w/ duvolle/shotgun=lulz Cal Commando w rr/sniper = wtf is that Winmatar w cbr/swarms/massdriver= more scenarios it is useful in. Amar w scr/laser= death from afar Cal Cmdo w/ rr/sniper = long range suppression. i can defend one objective with my rr, and a second objective with the sniper from one location. i can defend one objective while covering my squad as they advance on a second objective and even soften up the enemy before my squad arrives and provide intel by using my scope to track targets i can counter snipe at anytime my squad needs it.
Ground Zero420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2014.05.19 12:05:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks guys, this is been a great source of information. I guess my main take away is the swarm bonus which does make more sense as a caldari and the CR needing a tweak, and a few additional improvements. Arkena, the current use is Minmatar Gallente Caldari Amarr We are going to come back with a holistic view of the next patch and see if we can't fix a few things this round. I will still make a sticky and keep an eye out for additional info. Who are you, and what have you done with the real CCP staff? Spartan mk420
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8699	Posted - 2014.05.19 14:54:00 - [53] - Quote So if they take the SL Bonus away, can I get a Minmatar AV Weapon? Or a Respec? CPM Game Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
God Hates Lags The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 1148	Posted - 2014.05.19 14:58:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: I have all the commandos at 5 and to be honest, the problem is lack of weapon variety. The commandos themselves are pretty balanced to my mind, the problem is that only the min actually has two weapons to use. Minmatar can use either a combat rifle and a mass driver or two combat rifles. The first compensates well for the commando's lack of a grenade slot gives good variety to the role. The second compensates for the combat rifles low magazine and ammo count, easily its biggest drawback. Gallente can use two AR's but really you aren't gaining much from using them. Clips are high already and with the lowest range you're still functioning within a very limited role. Plasma cannon is pointless since its a OHK already, and the gallente is too slow to use shotgun effectively. Besides, the 10% bonus doesn't make a lot of difference in the shotgun kill time anyway. The charge time on the Rail rifle makes stacking two of them on the Caldari Commando a pointless exercise. A sniper rifle is handy and I use this commando a lot when countersniping but overall it's a very limited role. Amarr commando to me is the oddball of the lot. Laser rifle and Scrambler rifle have too similar ranges. Stacking them seems redundant or at the very least to make a very minor difference. Stacking dual Scrambler rifles is a better combination to my mind because it compensates for overheat, but with a scrambler rilfle you really need speed to strafe with a target and as the slowest commando, the Amarr just doesn't have that. Can the scrambler be (simply)made a little more effective in the mid range? Other than that, we think it may course correct if shield v armor tanking becomes a little more balanced and we see more shield tankers out there. The Amarr commando to my mind is the hardest one to fix as it is the oddball. I would give the Gall commando an inherent armor rep. That would allow it to last longer in short range combat and make it a much more appealing role for sustained close range combat. The Caldari is useful already. I think it will always persist in its limited role as sniper because that's just sort of what it does. no fix really needed here, it is what it is. I think improving the armor vs. Shields would certainly help make the Amarr commando a more compelling option, but the fact remains that its weapons overlap too much. The one thing the laser can do that the scrambler can't is kill a heavy, and for that it's useful. But the scrambler is a one hit kill charge shot and is thus much more practical for killing infantry at the same range as a laser rifle. "Look what I destroyed in two days" Kane Spero
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 301	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:18:00 - [55] - Quote Atiim wrote: So if they take the SL Bonus away, can I get a Minmatar AV Weapon? Or a Respec? sure. a single shot stinger missile that needs to be laser guided to its target. good news is you dont need a lock to fire it lol
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 633	Posted - 2014.05.19 17:09:00 - [56] - Quote the minnie commando is by far the weakest of the three. its the weapon loadouts that make it the most popular. cr + md or cr + swarms. currently the minnie is the weakest of the four of you are just looking at the suits themselves. it could actully do with a buff. the amarr suit should be much stronger but its lack of versatily let it down. you are pretty much limited to scram rifle and lr. the caldari has found its place as the snipers choice and the gall as the the run in and smack them in the face suit. the amarr's suit doesnt really fit well into any role and is therefore the one in most need of help.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 683	Posted - 2014.05.19 17:17:00 - [57] - Quote Amarr Commando suit is Great. Ehp is great. Slots are great. Problem : Amarr are slower but are supposed to have more life, on Commandos suits the Hp bonus of Amarr seems to be...ridiculous. 30hp for a Heavy suit ... are you kidding ? Remove speed penality or increase life bonus but do something. The problem is than Amarr weapons....Well there's only THREE of them in the ENTIRE game and two of them have the same niche and range...... No diversity.... Pointless weapon stacking. -Overheat problem, -Extra Low DPS (Don't forget they have 20% almost ALWAYS) -The damage bonus of commando is TOTALLY negated by the (almost) 20% Nerf on Amarr wepaons. - Extra hard to fit. => 2 STD Scrambler is 22PG..... 2 Proto is 40PG.....Seriously ? Do something about Amarr weapons.....They just sucks into Amarr hands.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 713	Posted - 2014.05.19 18:24:00 - [58] - Quote In my opinion Commando's only have one advantage and that is having two light weapons. You give up quite a bit in speed and grenades to have that and for most light weapons it just isn't worth it. There are really only two weapons where make it worth it, the first is swarms, the second is the MD. Minmatar gives a bonus to those two so it will be the most popular. Because, that's why.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8711	Posted - 2014.05.19 18:39:00 - [59] - Quote Perhaps the real reason as to why the Minmatar Commando is the most popular, is because the weapons they have bonuses to are the most popular? I'd look at the market data for Light Weapons first. I'm sure popularity in the other Commandos would increase if their weapons were worth running. CPM Game Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Vera Quorum The Brothers Quorum et al. 0	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:37:00 - [60] - Quote Gallente has too slow stamina recovery and not enough diversity of weapon choice. I find myself running just double AR most of the time with it. I find amarr need a not med-long range weapon, cause both LR and SR seem to do close to the same job on a suit and i'll often just end up favoring one over the other during play. Min has a nice weapon balance and allows a number of strong combos. Really More Light AV to complement the races that don't get any as a commando would be cool. Someone mentioned an amarr laser blade also early on in the comments, That would be a fun weapon to change it up with.

Kilo Shells G.L.O.R.Y RISE of LEGION 50	Posted - 2014.05.19 23:55:00 - [61] - Quote I think the true problem is people thinking they "must" fit for their bonuses. I think it's silly to force all the dropsuits upsides and ignore the downsides of that (Like fitting only caldari weapons leaves you spooling up for every fight). But, maybe the current bonus could bleed into the allied faction? Like 10% to rail and 2.5%~5% to lasers for example. Conclusion: bleed current bonus into differnt weapons to broaden options. True Caldari Assault forget to tell you, I left some remotes on your tank....
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2813	Posted - 2014.05.20 05:55:00 - [62] - Quote Kilo Shells wrote: I think the true problem is people thinking they "must" fit for their bonuses. I think it's silly to force all the dropsuits upsides and ignore the downsides of that (Like fitting only caldari weapons leaves you spooling up for every fight). But, maybe the current bonus could bleed into the allied faction? Like 10% to rail and 2.5%~5% to lasers for example. Conclusion: bleed current bonus into differnt weapons to broaden options. Or just give all suits a dmg bonus to swarms, all factions have missile launchers in EVE. Gallente and caldari should share a dmg bonus to hybrid weapons. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Chimichanga66605 Myrmidon Syndicate 113	Posted - 2014.05.20 07:03:00 - [63] - Quote Check this out; Make the Commando a class instead of suit. For each Scout, Assault & Heavy, they can branch off to the Commando Class (specialised suit variant) that holds 2 Light Weapons.
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 104	Posted - 2014.05.20 19:49:00 - [64] - Quote ATM I use the Amarr commando on this profile and the Minmatar commando on my other account the reason I use commandos and not Assault suits is because you CCP have failed the assault suits and have done a good job with the Commando suits. Commandos Have good bonuses for their roles witch seems to be med to long range suppression. The reason the Minmatar and Gallente Commando suits are used more is because they have more then 2 weapons that get buffed -Minmatar: Combat rifles, Mass drivers, and (Swarm launchers, are they also considered a light explosive weapon?) -Gallente: Assault rifles, shotgun, and plasma cannon. all the Amarr and Caldari get are 2 weapons -Amarr Laser rifle and scrambler rifle. -Caldari sniper rifle and rail rifle. Suggestions; increased the speed and agility of the 3 races commando suits to be more like the Minmatar has they have less HP then their heavy and sentinel versions. Also bring in another Laser and rail light weapon and possibly add a 3rd bonus to swarm launcher damage and missile velocity. Assault suits the 5% reduction to PG/CPU is very good for these suits the Assaults could use a 3rd bonus to a defensive modules. Medium and Assault suit hit point and module slot configuration done right. this way scout suits will never have more HP then the medium suits. Amarr Assault Armor 250 Shield 175 High slots: 2 low slots: 5 10% heat reduction to laser heat build up per level. 5% is not enough. they should be able to empty a laser rifle battery. % bonus to armor plate hit points. the PG and CPU on this suit will need to be increased for the additional module slot. Caldar Assault Armor 175 Shield 250 High slots: 4 low slots: 3 could possibly add a zoom buff while using Hybrid weapons. reload bonus is fine % bonus to shield exteners Gallente Assault Armor 210 Shield 180 High slots: 3 low slots: 4 is their a way to make it easyer to hit targets with hybrid weapons? hybrid weapon bonus is fine % bonus to armor reps Minmatar Assault Armor 180 Shield 180 High slots: 5 low slots: 2 slow down this suit a little but keep its agility the same. also make the shield recharge competitive with the caldari. projectile magazine bonus is fine. % bonus to all shield recharging modules. The Amarr sentinel Rail rifle damage resistance bonus needs to be changed from shields to armor to reflect the Amarr tank style as it is armor damage resistance. I don't even know why I bother.
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 29	Posted - 2014.05.21 03:14:00 - [65] - Quote Dunce Masterson wrote: ATM I use the Amarr commando on this profile and the Minmatar commando on my other account the reason I use commandos and not Assault suits is because you CCP have failed the assault suits and have done a good job with the Commando suits. Commandos Have good bonuses for their roles witch seems to be med to long range suppression. The reason the Minmatar and Gallente Commando suits are used more is because they have more then 2 weapons that get buffed -Minmatar: Combat rifles, Mass drivers, and (Swarm launchers, are they also considered a light explosive weapon?) -Gallente: Assault rifles, shotgun, and plasma cannon. all the Amarr and Caldari get are 2 weapons -Amarr Laser rifle and scrambler rifle. -Caldari sniper rifle and rail rifle. Suggestions; increased the speed and agility of the 3 races commando suits to be more like the Minmatar has they have less HP then their heavy and sentinel versions. Also bring in another Laser and rail light weapon and possibly add a 3rd bonus to swarm launcher damage and missile velocity. Assault suits the 5% reduction to PG/CPU is very good for these suits the Assaults could use a 3rd bonus to a defensive modules. Medium and Assault suit hit point and module slot configuration done right. this way scout suits will never have more HP then the medium suits. Amarr Assault Armor 250 Shield 175 High slots: 2 low slots: 5 10% heat reduction to laser heat build up per level. 5% is not enough. they should be able to empty a laser rifle battery. % bonus to armor plate hit points. the PG and CPU on this suit will need to be increased for the additional module slot. Caldar Assault Armor 175 Shield 250 High slots: 4 low slots: 3 could possibly add a zoom buff while using Hybrid weapons. reload bonus is fine % bonus to shield exteners Gallente Assault Armor 210 Shield 180 High slots: 3 low slots: 4 is their a way to make it easyer to hit targets with hybrid weapons? hybrid weapon bonus is fine % bonus to armor reps Minmatar Assault Armor 180 Shield 180 High slots: 5 low slots: 2 slow down this suit a little but keep its agility the same. also make the shield recharge competitive with the caldari. projectile magazine bonus is fine. % bonus to all shield recharging modules. The Amarr sentinel Rail rifle damage resistance bonus needs to be changed from shields to armor to reflect the Amarr tank style as it is armor damage resistance. I can say that this is interesting. I was thinking of something like that. Bonus to HP modules and reps plus a bit decreased speed for min. The light weapons now are fine except CR. If it is balanced to the other weapons will be great. Just I am not convinced about the additional dropsuit slot. Also the additional slot on the scout suits was a mistake.
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 105	Posted - 2014.05.21 03:28:00 - [66] - Quote a 3rd bonus on the specialized suits will go along way to balancing them and defining their roles. also the basic drop suits should have at least 1 bonus that could carry on to both of its specialized versions. The Amarr medium and Assault suits should have just has many module slots has all the rest also with my previous post making those changes will give players who end up liking Dust 514 and accurate idea of how the EVE online races do things. on the matter of other suits the new basic heavies PG/CPU don't go up on their ADV and PROTO versions this needs to be fixed also the Commando suits skins are all the same aur or isk bought basic or proto. I don't even know why I bother.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3379	Posted - 2014.05.21 15:01:00 - [67] - Quote Kilo Shells wrote: I think the true problem is people thinking they "must" fit for their bonuses. I think it's silly to force all the dropsuits upsides and ignore the downsides of that (Like fitting only caldari weapons leaves you spooling up for every fight). But, maybe the current bonus could bleed into the allied faction? Like 10% to rail and 2.5%~5% to lasers for example. Conclusion: bleed current bonus into differnt weapons to broaden options. I don't think it's so much that we think we "Have" to use the bonus, I certainly don't put both a ScR and LR on my Amarr commando (which admittedly I don't use much, I prefer the LR on my Amarr assault). But, if you want to look at balancing the Commando suits, the simple fact of the matter is, the Minmatar is the only one in which you can both maximize the bonus and fulfill multiple roles. If you fixed the PLC and moved swarms to Caldari, then those would move that way as well. It would still leave the Amarr at something of a disadvantage unless an Amarr AV weapon suddenly showed up (hint hint). Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 28	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:11:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks guys, this is been a great source of information. I guess my main take away is the swarm bonus which does make more sense as a caldari and the CR needing a tweak, and a few additional improvements. Arkena, the current use is Minmatar Gallente Caldari Amarr We are going to come back with a holistic view of the next patch and see if we can't fix a few things this round. I will still make a sticky and keep an eye out for additional info. im surprised the ammar is last on the list, like the gallente, if you have a good logi behind you, you can cause a lot of hurt. i would have figured the caldari would be last due to all the problems with shields
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 28	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:15:00 - [69] - Quote Poultryge1st wrote: I really like the idea of changing the breach MD to an AV weapon! honestly i think the MD LSR PLC and SWL are the "light anti vehicle" the reason i say this is because while the swarm launcher and PLC are obviously av geared, me and my corp have harassed DS's and even taken out LAV's with the laser rifles. so while the MD and LSR are geared towards other play styles they can become av in groups against light vehicles.
The-Errorist Sver true blood 705	Posted - 2014.05.22 04:01:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: Stuff Can the scrambler be (simply)made a little more effective in the mid range? Other than that, we think it may course correct if shield v armor tanking becomes a little more balanced and we see more shield tankers out there. Yes, just increase the zoom magnification a little when ADS. Other than what has already been said, the Amarr commando needs to have a standard armor plate EHP advantage compared to the galmando. MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).



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