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Eko Sol Strange Playings 289	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:14:00 - [1] - Quote I can't possibly be the only one. I'll edit this post with anyone that claims it is relatively balanced. I'll say this. If you believe it is 90% balanced or better than post your name down as "yay". Anything else won't count. I find it incredibly difficult to believe I'm the only one consistently successful with AV nades and RE's on my scout. I also find it hard to believe that only a handful of players are good with forges. This is your chance to tell the crybabies to stop so that CCP, if they do anything at all, focus their energies on actual things that are in need of help in the game as opposed to vehicle nerf hammers. Names: Eko Sol PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Vitharr Foebane Heaven's Lost Property 1205	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:23:00 - [2] - Quote use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Eko Sol Strange Playings 289	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:31:00 - [3] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Vitharr Foebane Heaven's Lost Property 1205	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:36:00 - [4] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. If swarms were "meant" for DS and ADS why do they have an inherent resistance to them? Mind you i ask this as a purely philosophical statement as i am a heavy with prof IV in forges. Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4185	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:39:00 - [5] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 702	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:43:00 - [6] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Proto swarm launchers should be feared though and they are not.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 702	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:46:00 - [7] - Quote Right so to be effective at AV one should carry proxys and RE's along with a proto swarm launcher. Not an option as a heavy. We get forge guns and right now forge guns dont do enough damage fast enough to scare any tank that has a repper. Forge guns work best if 3 or 4 are aiming at the same target which is crap.
Vitharr Foebane Heaven's Lost Property 1205	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:46:00 - [8] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Proto swarm launchers should be feared though and they are not. the sad fact of the matter is that no infantry AV is feared unless its a RE, proto FG, or jihad LAV. That is wrong on more levels then i can possibly put in a single post... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Eko Sol Strange Playings 289	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:47:00 - [9] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. If swarms were "meant" for DS and ADS why do they have an inherent resistance to them? Mind you i ask this as a purely philosophical statement as i am a heavy with prof IV in forges. I'm done explaining. I'm done. The way I look at it is that a true AV infantry unit has 2 out of the 4 AV methods and knows when to execute. In addition, knows when the vehicle in question just doesn't matter. How many tanks just stay outside the city? Why the hell do I have to be successful at AV'ing that tank? There is no reason. I should stay in the city and protect the null or take it. Why should I care about the ADS that's just going around picking off outsiders when the dom Null is underground? It just doesn't make sense. AV is about picking battles and using two out of the four following methods: 1) AV nades/RE's 2) Proxy RE's 3) Forge 4) Swarms I change my mind. I'm going to explain a little. If someone goes after every vehicle with swarms then they suck. If they go after every single vehicle with AV Nades and RE's then they suck. If they expect every vehicle to run over Proxy RE's then they suck. If someone is on lower ground and comes out with a FG every time then they suck. If you choose only one method then you might only have a small percentage of times where it is appropriate. Just because I'm good at AV doesn't mean I go after every tank. It means I go after the tanks that matter and are in a situation in which I can win with my method. Sometimes they are out in the open. Forges are more successful then Nades and RE's. Sometimes the tank is in the city where Nades and RE's are more successful. Swarms are successful from high ground in semi-open areas like the map that has the mushroom but not the towers. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1251	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:49:00 - [10] - Quote Kind of confused about this thread but I think av balance against dropships is pretty good. It takes two people who know what they are doing to bring down my ship, and my ship needs a skilled crew of 2-3 for it to be 100% effective. That seems balanced to me. The real imbalance seems to be with tanks, something should be done to make it more balanced. Most of the time when I encounter a good av team we have a very interesting fight, one slip up on either end could be fatal. Its a very intense engagement, and then a suicide dropship hits me or a rail tank blaps me. Today I had a game where the enemy team deployed two suicide/bait ships (incubus and Myron) and two rail tanks to try and bring me down. It wasn't very fun or interesting.

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13452	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:53:00 - [11] - Quote Plasma cannon is fine too amirite. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 289	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:54:00 - [12] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Thurak1 wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Proto swarm launchers should be feared though and they are not. the sad fact of the matter is that no infantry AV is feared unless its a RE, proto FG, or jihad LAV. That is wrong on more levels then i can possibly put in a single post... This is wrong. I know for a fact my name is on the sh!t list to watch out for. I have messages indicating this. When I'm the red for someone else I promise their are a few Cal Scouts with extra Precision Enhancers running close by the tank. That's what makes me even better. Taking out those to get to the tank but even now there are people that run that and when my name shows up on the kill feed for their INF support...the tank runs away before I can even get to it. You know, I want AV "balanced". Ef it. Why not? I want to win that much easier. I want all of the sucky people to still suck thinking nerfing speed on a tank or ads will help. I promise you right now. If you can't take out a tank with RE's and Nades or a FG, or take out a ADS with a Forge or Swarms then you are always going to suck. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Vitharr Foebane Heaven's Lost Property 1205	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:54:00 - [13] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. If swarms were "meant" for DS and ADS why do they have an inherent resistance to them? Mind you i ask this as a purely philosophical statement as i am a heavy with prof IV in forges. I'm done explaining. I'm done. The way I look at it is that a true AV infantry unit has 2 out of the 4 AV methods and knows when to execute. In addition, knows when the vehicle in question just doesn't matter. How many tanks just stay outside the city? Why the hell do I have to be successful at AV'ing that tank? There is no reason. I should stay in the city and protect the null or take it. Why should I care about the ADS that's just going around picking off outsiders when the dom Null is underground? It just doesn't make sense. AV is about picking battles and using two out of the four following methods: 1) AV nades/RE's 2) Proxy RE's 3) Forge 4) Swarms I change my mind. I'm going to explain a little. If someone goes after every vehicle with swarms then they suck. If they go after every single vehicle with AV Nades and RE's then they suck. If they expect every vehicle to run over Proxy RE's then they suck. If someone is on lower ground and comes out with a FG every time then they suck. If you choose only one method then you might only have a small percentage of times where it is appropriate. Just because I'm good at AV doesn't mean I go after every tank. It means I go after the tanks that matter and are in a situation in which I can win with my method. Sometimes they are out in the open. Forges are more successful then Nades and RE's. Sometimes the tank is in the city where Nades and RE's are more successful. Swarms are successful from high ground in semi-open areas like the map that has the mushroom but not the towers. EDIT: BTW, although you don't get WP. Get good at crashing cheap gorgons into ADS. I do it all of the time. I'm not going to count this as number 5 simply because it only works on ADS. After Burner, Rep, Armor plate and chase it around. Even if you don't get it it won't get anything either. Since you are in an explaining mood how is a heavy supposed to effectively use your 2 of 4 method? Being next to a tank equals dead no matter if you are a heavy or ewar scout. Also a heavy cannot use a re or proxy. So where does a heavy fit into your little rule? Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Eko Sol Strange Playings 290	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:58:00 - [14] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. If swarms were "meant" for DS and ADS why do they have an inherent resistance to them? Mind you i ask this as a purely philosophical statement as i am a heavy with prof IV in forges. I'm done explaining. I'm done. The way I look at it is that a true AV infantry unit has 2 out of the 4 AV methods and knows when to execute. In addition, knows when the vehicle in question just doesn't matter. How many tanks just stay outside the city? Why the hell do I have to be successful at AV'ing that tank? There is no reason. I should stay in the city and protect the null or take it. Why should I care about the ADS that's just going around picking off outsiders when the dom Null is underground? It just doesn't make sense. AV is about picking battles and using two out of the four following methods: 1) AV nades/RE's 2) Proxy RE's 3) Forge 4) Swarms I change my mind. I'm going to explain a little. If someone goes after every vehicle with swarms then they suck. If they go after every single vehicle with AV Nades and RE's then they suck. If they expect every vehicle to run over Proxy RE's then they suck. If someone is on lower ground and comes out with a FG every time then they suck. If you choose only one method then you might only have a small percentage of times where it is appropriate. Just because I'm good at AV doesn't mean I go after every tank. It means I go after the tanks that matter and are in a situation in which I can win with my method. Sometimes they are out in the open. Forges are more successful then Nades and RE's. Sometimes the tank is in the city where Nades and RE's are more successful. Swarms are successful from high ground in semi-open areas like the map that has the mushroom but not the towers. EDIT: BTW, although you don't get WP. Get good at crashing cheap gorgons into ADS. I do it all of the time. I'm not going to count this as number 5 simply because it only works on ADS. After Burner, Rep, Armor plate and chase it around. Even if you don't get it it won't get anything either. Since you are in an explaining mood how is a heavy supposed to effectively use your 2 of 4 method? Being next to a tank equals dead no matter if you are a heavy or ewar scout. Also a heavy cannot use a re or proxy. So where does a heavy fit into your little rule? Damnit! You use 1 at a time stupid. You don't use two at the same time that just doesn't make sense. Sometimes FG is needed b/c you get strong position. Other times it isn't effective so why come in with a FG. You should be on higher ground where you are relatively protected from being sniped. You get sniped and you get a move on. Fall down, call an LAV if possible, and get to a supply depot to change out. The other thing that bugs me is people that stack damage mods for the AV weapon. You should always have at least one damage mod for the Side Arm so you can stand a chance in a one on one. And a KinKat. Even if you are a heavy it makes no sense to tank out and sprint at 1m/s. I just don't get people. EDIT: I'm done. I'm just done with this argument. I really hope CCP brings the nerf hammer. I can't freaking wait. You know. I wonder if CCP can do a look up in their database and see how many tanks I've taken out in the past few weeks. I wonder. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8636	Posted - 2014.05.17 07:01:00 - [15] - Quote I'm just gonna sit here and LOL at this thread because it means absolutely nothing, and will serve to do nothing but regurgitate points that have already disprove several times over. Also: CCP Logibro wrote: I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. CPM Game Join HvLP For Good Fights & Anime :) -HAND
Eko Sol Strange Playings 290	Posted - 2014.05.17 07:02:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: I'm just gonna sit here and LOL at this thread because it means absolutely nothing, and will serve to do nothing but regurgitate points that have already disprove several times over. Also: CCP Logibro wrote: I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. Dude, you suck at AV. I watched you in action. It's obvious. Get over it. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 702	Posted - 2014.05.17 07:09:00 - [17] - Quote Eko I am happy you are able to take out a tank using multiple equipment slots and a primary weapon slot to leverage AV as much as you can. Thats fantastic. It however is not an option for those of us that run heavy's. We have AV grenades (which are to laugh at in terms of tank damage) (flux grenades which work pretty good even on tank shields) and forge guns. Even if i proto out and use complex damage mods i can't pop a tank without help from other AV specialists. The 6 second charge time gives the tanker too much time. I simply can't do enough damage fast enough.
Vitharr Foebane Heaven's Lost Property 1205	Posted - 2014.05.17 07:10:00 - [18] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Atiim wrote: I'm just gonna sit here and LOL at this thread because it means absolutely nothing, and will serve to do nothing but regurgitate points that have already disprove several times over. Also: CCP Logibro wrote: I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. Dude, you suck at AV. I watched you in action. It's obvious. Get over it. Dude when 3+ people cant take out a tank with AV there is a problem... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8637	Posted - 2014.05.17 07:20:00 - [19] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Dude, you suck at AV. I watched you in action. It's obvious. Get over it. Got Pics? CPM Game Join HvLP For Good Fights & Anime :) -HAND
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 126	Posted - 2014.05.17 10:35:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: I'm just gonna sit here and LOL at this thread because it means absolutely nothing, and will serve to do nothing but regurgitate points that have already disprove several times over. Also: CCP Logibro wrote: I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. CCP Logibro is clearly aware that the hardener nerf was excessive, and should really have been a hardener buff. A wise man, truly. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1

Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1003	Posted - 2014.05.17 10:43:00 - [21] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Then by your logic HAVS should be inherently weaker then they are now by a large margin. I'm glad you finally agree. Nerf those ******* into the ground.
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1003	Posted - 2014.05.17 10:49:00 - [22] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Thurak1 wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Proto swarm launchers should be feared though and they are not. the sad fact of the matter is that no infantry AV is feared unless its a RE, proto FG, or jihad LAV. That is wrong on more levels then i can possibly put in a single post... This is wrong. I know for a fact my name is on the sh!t list to watch out for. I have messages indicating this. When I'm the red for someone else I promise their are a few Cal Scouts with extra Precision Enhancers running close by the tank. That's what makes me even better. Taking out those to get to the tank but even now there are people that run that and when my name shows up on the kill feed for their INF support...the tank runs away before I can even get to it. You know, I want AV "balanced". Ef it. Why not? I want to win that much easier. I want all of the sucky people to still suck thinking nerfing speed on a tank or ads will help. I promise you right now. If you can't take out a tank with RE's and Nades or a FG, or take out a ADS with a Forge or Swarms then you are always going to suck. Watch out guys. This skilled AVER knows opinions as if they are facts. The truly ignorant are indeed a Terrifying animal.
Yoma Carrim Kinsho Swords Caldari State 544	Posted - 2014.05.17 10:52:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: I'm just gonna sit here and LOL at this thread because it means absolutely nothing, and will serve to do nothing but regurgitate points that have already disprove several times over. Also: CCP Logibro wrote: I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. ^This It took Atiim and two or three other proto swarm users to shoot down my python last night and it wasn't even a great fit ether. Complex shield hardener Enhanced Light shield booster Enhanced heavy shield extender Complex PG upgrade XT-1 missile launcher Oh Heck
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 706	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:05:00 - [24] - Quote Eko, we all might suck at AV besides you but you can't say something is balanced over the results of one player. You asked everyone who agreed with you to say so and no one did. Simple statistics will explain that if the majority suck at AV, then they don't really suck, they are average, by definition. It is statistically unlikely that only good players use tanks and only bad ones try AV. Personally, I know I am only an average player, I have no reason to believe when I try AV that I suddenly get good, but the same is true of tankers. I don't see ANYONE running AV and beating tankers consistently. We can have a team that manages to do it, and if the enemy infantry isn't very good that happens, but if their infantry is any good we get overrun while trying to hunt vehicles. Because, that's why.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 956	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:16:00 - [25] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: I can't possibly be the only one. I'll edit this post with anyone that claims it is relatively balanced. I'll say this. If you believe it is 90% balanced or better than post your name down as "yay". Anything else won't count. I find it incredibly difficult to believe I'm the only one consistently successful with AV nades and RE's on my scout. I also find it hard to believe that only a handful of players are good with forges. This is your chance to tell the crybabies to stop so that CCP, if they do anything at all, focus their energies on actual things that are in need of help in the game as opposed to vehicle nerf hammers. Names: Eko Sol I was in a match last night with 5 tanks on the field. Know what happened to all of them, AV. And they held the most points (skirm). They even killed MY tank, which is HIGHLY unusual for any AV. It made me seriously question how underpowered AV actually is, as those guys demonstrated its effectiveness quite nicely. Not many "smart" AV'er out there. Edit: We could use some tweaks here and there, but nothing MAJOR. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Mike De Luca Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 51	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:22:00 - [26] - Quote Wow, I came in here expected to see a bunch of tankers going "It's balanced, don't take my god mode away!!!" If biomassing or quitting, add yourself to the registry https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=159832
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 734	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:28:00 - [27] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Wow, I came in here expected to see a bunch of tankers going "It's balanced, don't take my god mode away!!!" Don't take my god mode away! lol @ ekotroll
Mike De Luca Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 52	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:30:00 - [28] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Wow, I came in here expected to see a bunch of tankers going "It's balanced, don't take my god mode away!!!" Don't take my god mode away! lol @ ekotroll Thank you for that, all is well with the Dust forums again lol If biomassing or quitting, add yourself to the registry https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=159832
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8647	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:41:00 - [29] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: You know. I wonder if CCP can do a look up in their database and see how many tanks I've taken out in the past few weeks. I wonder. They could, but it wouldn't matter. You cannot factor a simple kill count as a sign of balance, because there are a lot (for lack of better words) outliers that could have caused that kill to happen. What should be asked after every kill is: Could the HAV pilot have survived through evasive action? How long did it take to kill those HAV pilots? How many other vehicles were present? Was the HAV Pilot Competent? Were you being suppressed by Infantry? If so, how many? What was the HAV Pilot's fitting? Tier? Where did the battle take place? Indoors? Outdoors? If that statistic alone was enough to determine whether or not something is balanced, then you'd also have to state that HAVs are broken due to the plentiful amount of AVers I've killed over the past few weeks. So unless your ready to admit that HAVs are OP, your argument is a double standard, and therefore should be disregarded. As my friends say, "GG was very EZ" [/thread] CPM Game Join HvLP For Good Fights & Anime :) -HAND
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 134	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:43:00 - [30] - Quote My AV fit: C-1 Scout Militia swarms Breach SMG AV nades Cloak RE's Enhanced light dmg mod Enhanced sidearm dmg mod Militia cadio regulator Best part of this fit, you need to focus everything if you want to destroy a single hav/dropship, but rarely need to since vehicle drivers are the biggest pussies in the game. One set of swarms or AV nades will make most tanks run for the redline. All dropships run from swarms "just to be safe". Seems that anything that threatens their safety blanket will cause panic. Just my observation. I am the cool. Shamma lamma mu mu

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1512	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:53:00 - [31] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. You are full of **. I know swarms, I use them, I have used them since Replication almost 2 years ago, I have had proficiency 5 and maxed skills in swarms since Uprising began a year ago, and right now they are utterly worthless without 3-4 other swarmers or 1-2 forge guns backing you unless you are firing on a completely trash tanker or an LAV. Swarms are meant for DS? You know not of what you speak. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569** MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3325	Posted - 2014.05.17 15:30:00 - [32] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. You are full of ****. I know swarms, I use them, I have used them since Replication almost 2 years ago, I have had proficiency 5 and maxed skills in swarms since Uprising began a year ago, and right now they are utterly worthless without 3-4 other swarmers or 1-2 forge guns backing you unless you are firing on a completely trash tanker or an LAV. Swarms are meant for DS? You know not of what you speak. QFT. Eko's a troll, best to just ignore him. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1046	Posted - 2014.05.17 18:24:00 - [33] - Quote Scouts shouldn't be the most effective AV. I have every single infantry AV weapon at proto, all of it pails in comparison to running a 6K ISK scout with RE's and AV nades. Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it, damn you! Turns out I wont.
Paladin Sas Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 392	Posted - 2014.05.17 18:29:00 - [34] - Quote 99% of successful AV isnt the AV itself, its knowing how to set devious traps and to maneuver the enemy armor into where you want them to be.
Mike De Luca Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 54	Posted - 2014.05.17 18:30:00 - [35] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Scouts shouldn't be the most effective AV. I have every single infantry AV weapon at proto, all of it pails in comparison to running a 6K ISK scout with RE's and AV nades. Pretty much just because triple rep maddies, to take one out solo you need the high damage from re's otherwise it's not gonna happen for the non av-specialist. At least the heavy with a forge is better for dropships in most cases. if you ever hear "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!" on comms n then an explosion, it was probably me doing something stupid
Eko Sol Strange Playings 315	Posted - 2014.05.17 18:37:00 - [36] - Quote Stopped following this thread b/c I don't want to argue. I think alot of you made valid points. The most valid is the larger part of the community is unable to AV properly. I have facts. I am just not going to spend money on a capture card to show people that they can do it. I find it hard to believe I'm some elite AV'er. I really do. I was not lying when I said I can't wait until they "balance" AV. I really can't. If I'm "good" now then I'm really going to enjoy what santa brings. And for the guy telling me they had 4 swarms shooting at the python. That is stupid. If you are trying to win the match then you shouldn't ever have four swarmers out unless they are commandos. I try to win, when a tank is a serious nuisance then I go AV. If it is just a pest a bit away from the null then I hold the null or secure the perimeter. I will never understand why people think they should be able to take out every vehicle they see every time they want to. It's just stupid. I'm not following this thread anymore. I lose. I and a few others I played with are going to see AV "balanced" and we are going to have a field day with whatever they decide. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 458	Posted - 2014.05.17 18:57:00 - [37] - Quote If you believe that light AV should solo vehicles then balance is way, way off. If you think it requires teamwork, it's pretty solid. Most people base the balance question on their experiences in pubs.mill say no more. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 327	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:58:00 - [38] - Quote Flux + FG works. But, I'm sick of dudes with Swarms stealing my Kills while I charge another round, after I've spent 3-6 shots getting them whittled down. I haven't used the Wyrikomi SL + Lai Dai nades in while. Blapping infantry with a FG is the most rewarding kill in the game because of the ragdolling. Maybe second to PLC kill, but I don't want to waste 3 matches trying to get 1 accidental kill. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny = Biomass Console Master Race
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4195	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:47:00 - [39] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: Right so to be effective at AV one should carry proxys and RE's along with a proto swarm launcher. Not an option as a heavy. We get forge guns and right now forge guns dont do enough damage fast enough to scare any tank that has a repper. Forge guns work best if 3 or 4 are aiming at the same target which is crap. Two. You need TWO forge guns to kill any repping target. One forge gun can kill any other target if he sticks around long enough. Otherwise he will push him away. Drop the hyperbole. You're not that worthless.
Operative 2511 Dajli True Companion Planetary Requisitions 104	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:37:00 - [40] - Quote AV is fine. It's the vehicle modules that are still out of whack. Tank vs. tank is too easy in that the rail turret is way to successful on a no sp mil tank and yet modules are too strong for AV. Nerf the rail RoF and overheat and then nerf the vehicle mods accordingly and everything would work better together. DA DADA DAAAAA!

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 746	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:41:00 - [41] - Quote Look, Eko! You've found one! The guy above me thinks that AV is fine. There's also Taki and Spkr. And a handful of others. But adding names to your list won't change the data, and I'm willing to bet the data shows: * Infantry-based AV is underperforming against tanks * Tanks are over-performing against infantry Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
RECON BY FIRE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 397	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:59:00 - [42] - Quote Im sure you aren't the only ****** to grace these forums either. And dude, nobody knows your name. Stuff....?
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4199	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:01:00 - [43] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Then by your logic HAVS should be inherently weaker then they are now by a large margin. I'm glad you finally agree. Nerf those ******* into the ground. No, not at all. HAV's dont win matches. HAV's can't win matches. They possess no ability to hack or infiltrate the finer points of a city. All a HAV can do is block infantry on the outside, and harass other HAV's. If you make it so one infantry can defeat a HAV with ease, the HAV serves no tactical value whatsoever and every last one should immediately be replaced with forge gunners. That's one of the things you children never think about. You're oh so willing to nerf something into the ground because its inconvenient for you to actually play the game properly, but when a tank's only purpose is removed you are not at all concerned with people who specialize in that part of the game. You sir, are quite selfish. You already have half of the map dedicated to infantry, yet you want dominance over even more of that. Rather sad.
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 298	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:09:00 - [44] - Quote Yay Honestly If you have 3 tanks on the field And the enemy has 3 tanks on the field Most of the time its an even 50/50 if the tankers are balanced If one side has a competent swarmed or forge gunner The battle usually becomes 35/65 I've been in multiple situations where me and a friend have used militia tanks with militia mods vs 3 full proto tanks and have won Simply because we had a forge gunner or a swarmed helping us When you need AV, you say "I need AV SUPPORT" Not "I need a tank slayer" Its called support for a reason Tanks are supposed to take out tanks along with DS+ADS And infantry with AV are there to support That is why they are in 5000HP tanks with big ass cannons on them And you are in a 400 HP scout suit with mini missiles You getting beat by tanks in a battle? Bring out MOAR tanks... Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 746	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:16:00 - [45] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: All a HAV can do is block infantry on the outside, and harass other HAV's. When I see folks farming infantry with Blaster Tanks, the first thing that comes to my mind: Look at how good those pilots are at "blocking infantry outside" while not winning matches. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed. 751	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:50:00 - [46] - Quote Duna and Milkman prob have maxed out skills and are the exception , also that's like comparing the top scouts or any other role ... the players who are maxed out will win out most of the time and that's common sense . You surely can not use these people as examples and also you have to bring into the mix that most of these same players run with at least a three man squad so there's support that comes into the formula as well , so they are not facing full encounters alone . You people like to use people as examples but most of the time you pick the maxed out proto players who are generally better than the average proto player . Use other roles as an example and the same counts but this is a bias way to come to a conclusion because these players are rare and cannot represent even 25 percent of the community . There are more players with proto suits than have the actual core to back up the suit but that's less than have weapons , most players get the suit and while working on the suit they get weapons and while doing that , work on their core . I see proto scouts with their core at advanced because you can tell the difference between a real proto scout and one that just uses the suit . The same can be said about heavies or vehicles for that matter as well . You just can not use rare players as the measuring tools for the norm , that's just unbalanced . Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4203	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:00:00 - [47] - Quote rofl do not use duna for any example on anything, ever. He is the most supported tanker you will ever see. And furthermore using ambush as an example that ANYTHING is unbalanced.... no, the argument holds no water. Ambush is broken and always has been.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 748	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:06:00 - [48] - Quote Lol @ Max Skill I have "max skill" scout stuff. Lots of us do. But none of us have the 50+ Weekly KDRs. You know who does? Only tankers. Because balance. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1011	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:34:00 - [49] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Then by your logic HAVS should be inherently weaker then they are now by a large margin. I'm glad you finally agree. Nerf those ******* into the ground. No, not at all. HAV's dont win matches. HAV's can't win matches. They possess no ability to hack or infiltrate the finer points of a city. All a HAV can do is block infantry on the outside, and harass other HAV's. If you make it so one infantry can defeat a HAV with ease, the HAV serves no tactical value whatsoever and every last one should immediately be replaced with forge gunners. That's one of the things you children never think about. You're oh so willing to nerf something into the ground because its inconvenient for you to actually play the game properly, but when a tank's only purpose is removed you are not at all concerned with people who specialize in that part of the game. You sir, are quite selfish. You already have half of the map dedicated to infantry, yet you want dominance over even more of that. Rather sad. So you can't clone the enemy to win? Ambush matches go on forever because theirs no objectives to hack? Your tactical value is being able to kill everything In the game without impunity, and do it better then anything else in the game. HAV s are almost immune to a large majority of the guns in game, you wanting them to be resilient against the only weapons that CAN damage them is being selfish. Nice try buddy. And Way to pull the child card like an "adult".
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:39:00 - [50] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. Ive never lost a dropship to swarms maybe once when it made me crash into something.

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed. 751	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:53:00 - [51] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Lol @ Max Skill I have "max skill" scout stuff. Lots of us do. But none of us have the 50+ Weekly KDRs. You know who does? Only tankers. Because balance. It's a totally different role and you shouldn't be able to compare either , it's just like putting those same stats up against a Heavy , a Logi or Commando . Their different roles that involve different mechanics and different battlefield situations . You just can't compare the two and call yourself , attempting to talk about balancing issues . You just can't make comparisons to players that place every single skill point into ONE role where most have two or three that they play in one character . That's just a disproportionate argument because the numbers can and will not balance out . Most players do not play just one role on a character that's their main character , so those who do will of course have an advantage over most and these players are rare and the exception . Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1673	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:12:00 - [52] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Atiim wrote: I'm just gonna sit here and LOL at this thread because it means absolutely nothing, and will serve to do nothing but regurgitate points that have already disprove several times over. Also: CCP Logibro wrote: I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. Dude, you suck at AV. I watched you in action. It's obvious. Get over it. While I've only played with Atiim once, i can state that he is 120x better than your average AVer, yes he might have things to work on, but don't we all? I'm a ******* aggressive bastard who holds grudges mid-match, and then laughs my ass off when i squad with them. The 2 things i noticed Atiim needs to work on? Positioning and strafing. He dies to any blaster with an aim, and that's fine. Just gotta learn dem dances. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 709	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:27:00 - [53] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Then by your logic HAVS should be inherently weaker then they are now by a large margin. I'm glad you finally agree. Nerf those ******* into the ground. No, not at all. HAV's dont win matches. HAV's can't win matches. They possess no ability to hack or infiltrate the finer points of a city. All a HAV can do is block infantry on the outside, and harass other HAV's. If you make it so one infantry can defeat a HAV with ease, the HAV serves no tactical value whatsoever and every last one should immediately be replaced with forge gunners. That's one of the things you children never think about. You're oh so willing to nerf something into the ground because its inconvenient for you to actually play the game properly, but when a tank's only purpose is removed you are not at all concerned with people who specialize in that part of the game. You sir, are quite selfish. You already have half of the map dedicated to infantry, yet you want dominance over even more of that. Rather sad. You make no sense. Infantry AV's only purpose is killing vehicles. HAV's serve many such as AI, AV, Area Denial, moving cover, fast moving scanner, scout and other roles. It also has a driver in a fully equipped dropsuit in addition to the tank. This is ONE PLAYER, and you have made no argument regarding why one player should get such a dominant role over another, just some emotional appeal about what you think a tank should be. So why should it be very hard for one player using IAV to kill a tank but not hard for that tank to kill an IAV player or anything else? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 709	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:34:00 - [54] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Duna and Milkman prob have maxed out skills and are the exception , also that's like comparing the top scouts or any other role ... the players who are maxed out will win out most of the time and that's common sense . You surely can not use these people as examples and also you have to bring into the mix that most of these same players run with at least a three man squad so there's support that comes into the formula as well , so they are not facing full encounters alone . You people like to use people as examples but most of the time you pick the maxed out proto players who are generally better than the average proto player . Use other roles as an example and the same counts but this is a bias way to come to a conclusion because these players are rare and cannot represent even 25 percent of the community . There are more players with proto suits than have the actual core to back up the suit but that's less than have weapons , most players get the suit and while working on the suit they get weapons and while doing that , work on their core . I see proto scouts with their core at advanced because you can tell the difference between a real proto scout and one that just uses the suit . The same can be said about heavies or vehicles for that matter as well . You just can not use rare players as the measuring tools for the norm , that's just unbalanced . I mostly agree but when tankers can put a up numbers like that and others can't then it becomes a useful metric. Let's take an "average" tanker and an "average" infantryman, or we could take the average of all of both. Do you think the tankers average kdr is 1.0? If it is balanced it should be, but do you think anyone believes it is? If tankers deaths, how many of those come at the hands of other tankers and how many at the hands of IAV? Again, if there is balance those two should be equal, do you think they are? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 709	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:42:00 - [55] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Atiim wrote: I'm just gonna sit here and LOL at this thread because it means absolutely nothing, and will serve to do nothing but regurgitate points that have already disprove several times over. Also: CCP Logibro wrote: I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. Dude, you suck at AV. I watched you in action. It's obvious. Get over it. While I've only played with Atiim once, i can state that he is 120x better than your average AVer, yes he might have things to work on, but don't we all? I'm a ******* aggressive bastard who holds grudges mid-match, and then laughs my ass off when i squad with them. The 2 things i noticed Atiim needs to work on? Positioning and strafing. He dies to any blaster with an aim, and that's fine. Just gotta learn dem dances. I haven't played with Atim yet but in every match I have played with A/V UNITED our squad is topping the leaderboards as INFANTRY. So I find it hard to believe that they play much better than average as infantry but that they suck at IAV which they like to play. This makes no sense to me. Because, that's why.
Jake Diesel Legion-10 165	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:50:00 - [56] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Proto swarm launchers should be feared though and they are not. A vehicle should fear the forge gun. Not swarm launcher. If it becomes the other way around, there's something wrong with that. Because that's exactly what happened prior to their nerf. They were too powerful and effective for a weapon with auto aim.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 708	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:01:00 - [57] - Quote Jake Diesel wrote: Thurak1 wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Proto swarm launchers should be feared though and they are not. A vehicle should fear the forge gun. Not swarm launcher. If it becomes the other way around, there's something wrong with that. Because that's exactly what happened prior to their nerf. They were too powerful and effective for a weapon with auto aim. I would be fine with the FG being an effective anti tank weapons. Right now it needs either a damage increase or a ROF increase. Damage would probably be best so it isnt used as much vs infantry. I would even say to make it so that only the proto breach FG is buffed up. At least then standing immoble for 6 seconds i could do enough damage to pop a militia tank.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 1884	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:14:00 - [58] - Quote AV is fine... It's kinda balanced. Proxy mines need to be more of a factor in general. And the main focus of the AV game for tanks pursuing infantry based fighting area's and Infantry defending against vehicle offensives in tight objective based locations. They would need a massive damage boost and scaled up in size a bit so then tanks can spot them somewhat easier and counter them. and then they are balanced for all parties even with 1-2 killing most tanks and LAV.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4205	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:17:00 - [59] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Then by your logic HAVS should be inherently weaker then they are now by a large margin. I'm glad you finally agree. Nerf those ******* into the ground. No, not at all. HAV's dont win matches. HAV's can't win matches. They possess no ability to hack or infiltrate the finer points of a city. All a HAV can do is block infantry on the outside, and harass other HAV's. If you make it so one infantry can defeat a HAV with ease, the HAV serves no tactical value whatsoever and every last one should immediately be replaced with forge gunners. That's one of the things you children never think about. You're oh so willing to nerf something into the ground because its inconvenient for you to actually play the game properly, but when a tank's only purpose is removed you are not at all concerned with people who specialize in that part of the game. You sir, are quite selfish. You already have half of the map dedicated to infantry, yet you want dominance over even more of that. Rather sad. So you can't clone the enemy to win? Ambush matches go on forever because theirs no objectives to hack? Your tactical value is being able to kill everything In the game without impunity, and do it better then anything else in the game. HAV s are almost immune to a large majority of the guns in game, you wanting them to be resilient against the only weapons that CAN damage them is being selfish. Nice try buddy. And Way to pull the child card like an "adult". It's not the only weapon that can damage them. It's the laziest weapon that can damage them. Don't get salty on me just because you're a bad player that can't kill a tank.
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1012	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:04:00 - [60] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. Then by your logic HAVS should be inherently weaker then they are now by a large margin. I'm glad you finally agree. Nerf those ******* into the ground. No, not at all. HAV's dont win matches. HAV's can't win matches. They possess no ability to hack or infiltrate the finer points of a city. All a HAV can do is block infantry on the outside, and harass other HAV's. If you make it so one infantry can defeat a HAV with ease, the HAV serves no tactical value whatsoever and every last one should immediately be replaced with forge gunners. That's one of the things you children never think about. You're oh so willing to nerf something into the ground because its inconvenient for you to actually play the game properly, but when a tank's only purpose is removed you are not at all concerned with people who specialize in that part of the game. You sir, are quite selfish. You already have half of the map dedicated to infantry, yet you want dominance over even more of that. Rather sad. So you can't clone the enemy to win? Ambush matches go on forever because theirs no objectives to hack? Your tactical value is being able to kill everything In the game without impunity, and do it better then anything else in the game. HAV s are almost immune to a large majority of the guns in game, you wanting them to be resilient against the only weapons that CAN damage them is being selfish. Nice try buddy. And Way to pull the child card like an "adult". It's not the only weapon that can damage them. It's the laziest weapon that can damage them. Don't get salty on me just because you're a bad player that can't kill a tank. Sorry, I Forge Gun. I assume you incorrectly thought I used swarms because you missed the entire point of my original statement. There is no skill involved with HAVS in their current iteration. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply trying to boost their ego. So if by your logic something that takes little skill to use should not be a powerful weapon, I.E. the HAV falls into that category. Get it now? Good. Now move along cause you still haven't provided a valid argument, even if you didn't understand what you were arguing over in the first place.

Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1251	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:03:00 - [61] - Quote 2Berries wrote: My AV fit: C-1 Scout Militia swarms Breach SMG AV nades Cloak RE's Enhanced light dmg mod Enhanced sidearm dmg mod Militia cadio regulator Best part of this fit, you need to focus everything if you want to destroy a single hav/dropship, but rarely need to since vehicle drivers are the biggest pussies in the game. One set of swarms or AV nades will make most tanks run for the redline. All dropships run from swarms "just to be safe". Seems that anything that threatens their safety blanket will cause panic. Just my observation. I would hope that this milita swarm fit could not down my complex fitted assault dropship without focusing everything it has on me. Let's not make a combat rifle out of the swarm launcher. If you knew how hard it is to fly an assault dropship I don't think you would call me a *****. In fact you would say I have a huge set of balls. To say that running out of a swarms lock on range is being cowardly proves you are uneducated with the way dropships operate. To be clear, " just to be safe" could mean saving 600k+ because of a forge gun (which we can't see) multiple swarm launchers (which we can't see) a rail tank (might see) or suicide dropship also hitting us. A single milita swarm on its own is easy to kill with proto type missile turrets, especially with a little teamwork. Though if there is a milita swarm with a decent forge gun the scales tip heavily in av players favor. Getting out of lock range, locating the target, scanning for other possible threats, checking with gunners scans, lining up for an attack run and then killing the target is how "just safe" works for a dropship pilot. Try flying, tell me how easy it is and how quickly you get popped. In the dropship world most engagements happen in the span of 9-10 seconds so yes anything that threatens our ship is a huge threat that we have little to no time to react to. Now I'm sure you are expecting a, "all av players are just uneducated or idiots" quote from me. I won't say this though because that would be an insult to some of the good av players that I have fought and have had very intense and interesting battles with. So instead I'll tell you that you are uneducated and are expecting entirely too much out of your milita swarms.
Ceadda Sai Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 73	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:30:00 - [62] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: I can't possibly be the only one. I'll edit this post with anyone that claims it is relatively balanced. Depends in which side of the weapon spectrum players lie. Forges, I find them mostly effective and best used from high up. Other wise there is typically a lack of clear targets or being gunned down by infantry / blasters. But forge can be effective against infantry if need be. Tanks (excluding free creo don) are fairly nimble and can out run most av players if they play it safe. Swarms are surely ment for D's being able to bank and curve to hit targets which in open air is fine, except for there being no variation to missle speed (milita vs. Proto). REs are useful tools in ambushing but sometime difficult to get all of them on a target, proxy's are only decent in combination with any of the above. I typically run logi av in order to utilize these tools, as I findscouts rarely able to survive long enough to finish the job. Those are just some weapons dedicated to av, as i dont count plasma cannons. Forge Gunners: Now this is a gun for going out and and making people miserable with.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 710	Posted - 2014.05.18 04:12:00 - [63] - Quote Also AV is not a support role. AV is a specialized role with dedicated weapons for the purpose of destroying vehicles. Logistics is a support role and i think the only support role in the game at all. The funny thing is that the logi support role is a very specialized role that makes the rest of the squad all that more powerful.
Ceadda Sai Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 74	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:13:00 - [64] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: HAV's dont win matches. HAV's can't win matches... All a HAV can do is block infantry on the outside, and harass other HAV's.. Every time I see skilled pilots farming with Blaster Tanks, the first thing that comes to my mind: "Look at how good those pilots are at blocking infantry outside while not winning matches." Weekly Statistics DUNA2002 - 2,637 kills, 9 deaths, 15.46 win/loss Milkman1 - 1,271 kills, 62 deaths, 17.56 win/loss Shadow of War88 - 462 kills, 6 deaths, 28.92 win/loss The irony of this post, while having milkman's weekly k/d stats is not lost on this clone. Forge Gunners: Now this is a gun for going out and and making people miserable with.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 322	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:52:00 - [65] - Quote Ceadda Sai wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: HAV's dont win matches. HAV's can't win matches... All a HAV can do is block infantry on the outside, and harass other HAV's.. Every time I see skilled pilots farming with Blaster Tanks, the first thing that comes to my mind: "Look at how good those pilots are at blocking infantry outside while not winning matches." Weekly Statistics DUNA2002 - 2,637 kills, 9 deaths, 15.46 win/loss Milkman1 - 1,271 kills, 62 deaths, 17.56 win/loss Shadow of War88 - 462 kills, 6 deaths, 28.92 win/loss The irony of this post, while having milkman's weekly k/d stats is not lost on this clone. I'm chiming in here again by accident b/c someone liked one of my posts here. Milkman primarily does PC and PC has significantly more skilled players than pubs which is what Duna does.....only pubs. Wow, this thread grew quite hilarious now that I think about it. Keep up the good work guys. obviously AV is balanced, some people suck, and CCP needs to make it easier to compensate for peoples lack of understanding of what it takes to AV. AV is something you choose to do the greater percentage of every match. killing infantry or getting a hack is nothing more than a plus in the route of taking out vehicles. Someone else said something like this but I barely read most threads. Again, I hope they nerf tanks, buff swarms and nades and give forges a larger blast radius or whatever. I don't care. I just can't wait. I really can't. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 53	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:57:00 - [66] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please Swarm launcher is the least player skill intensive weapon in the game. Any scrub can switch into a completely free suit and use one. It doesn't even require aiming. It can, and should, do an incredibly pitiful amount of damage for the amount of effort it takes, which is nothing. When you get enough terrible players together it can become an issue. That's exactly where the weapon should be, and it's exactly where it is. You are sadly 100% wrong. I have to assume you mean skill as in "aiming." If so you've narrowly defined it to suit your argument. If you define skill more broadly, then staying alive while using swarms, which of course announces to infantry and vehicles alike your position and the fact that you've got swarms and not a weapon equipped for use against infantry (and only a sidearm unless Commando), Is the real skill. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 53	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:27:00 - [67] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: use a swarm launcher and make those statements please I do use swarms only when the time is right. Your statement is pointless. I primarily go after tanks and lav's. Swarms are meant as support for ground vehicles but mostly for DS and ADS. Speaking of swarms specifically, I can't join your list. This is a dedicated anti-vehicle weapon but is: - totally useless below proto level - limited in range vs vehicles - limited in ammo while vehicles can run away and heal an unlimited number of times - low in damage per second relative to target - they kill me in 1 or 2 shots where it can take me several volleys just to get a vehicle's attention - very team resource intensive, takes multiple players often to take down one opponent, and therefore is the very definition of unbalanced play - ineffective against neutral targets. Why can tanks, drop ships, turrets and forge gunners point ***** against neutral targets but Swarmers can'? - completely ineffective against some dropships, I haven't figured out which ones buy sometimes I'll come across a dropship that seems to take volley after volley without batting an eye On the bright side, swarms do a great job of controlling LAV infestations. While I may not be able to take down a tank on my own and survive (with possible exception of militia tanker who just isn't very good or is just very arrogant), it will tip the odds in favor of the blue team during tank v. tank engagements. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein


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