| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 44 post(s) |
medomai grey
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
708
   |
Posted - 2014.05.08 10:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Posted this in the Dust514 section before Legion forums were up.
medomai grey wrote:When I watched the Legion proof of concept, I noticed that the HUD(heads-up display) didn't differ all that much from Dust514. And that's a pity because there's still so much more room for improvement.
I would like to see:
GÇó Radar and map integration on the top left of the screen. The map should be a contour map that shows elevation, buildings and obstacles, longitude, latitude and your coordinates. I would also like to see labels and markers indicating the radial distance from the mercenary. This will aid coordination among players, give a better indication of where stuff is on the radar, and help players navigate the map better.
GÇó All gun info(ammo, heat, charge) on the bottom right corner of the screen needs to be moved onto the gun or reticle. Humans can only see a small area clearly, everything around that area is unfocused. Having information such as ammo, heat, and charge separated from what you are aiming at makes the experience cumbersome as the user has to keep switching their focus away from their target to check up on gun info at the bottom right of the screen. Also adds to immersion as a bonus.
GÇó Semi transparent text chat channel of player choice in the bottom right of the screen. Not all players have mics and communicating orders may be better if it constantly shows on the grunts screens. Also in game notices like orbital strike available or you got mail will be easier to notice than seeing words or images briefly pop-up and then disappear.
GÇó Overview map needs an overhaul. There's too much information that one can gleam by simply going to the over view map. Where is that sniper? Where is that tank? Where is the bulk of enemy forces? Just go to the overview map and its there; anything that isn't blue is an enemy, you don't need the red tags to figure that out. And It shouldn't be that way. I should have to coordinate with scouts, dropships, LAVs, capsuleers, etc. or drop some specialized equipment on the map for scans. There needs to be a "fog of war" to allow information gathering to be critical in game.
To get the "fog of war" I mentioned, we need to change the way the map is presented. We can't simply render the entire map and choose not to render in the enemies because that would not make sense immersion wise. I can see the entire field from a camera above the battle but I cant see my un-scanned enemies? I recommend changing the current live video stream overview map into a contour map that some unknown sensors took a 3D scan from orbit. Don't forget to add elevation, buildings and obstacles, longitude and latitude. A benefit of going this route may be shorter times in bringing up the overview map.
Medium frame EHP is not medium
|
|
CCP Frame
C C P
C C P Alliance
2726
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 10:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is actually what I really like to see on forums. [FEEDBACK/SUGGESTION/IDEA] Thread title. Makes it so much easier to read and browse entire section - and it also gives us great idea what to expect when clicking on it. Keep stuff like this coming, guys. We love it.
CCP Frame
|
|
Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 10:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
I fully agree with the OP.
Especially the part about getting overheat out of the corner of the screen.
I'd also add that the same should be done for target information. Currently it's way too subtle.
If you keep to the damage profile model (And I seriously hope you don't. It simply doesn't make sense for infantry, though it's nice for vehicles) the efficiency counter should disappear with a small delay, instead of instantly disappearing when you lose track of the target. |
Hawk-eye Occultus
ARKOMBlNE
174
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 11:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
I personally prefer my text windows on the bottom left.
Basically: allow users to move HUD elements around as they please; because everyone loves HUD customization. Also, allow different HUD colours.
I was pretty happy when I saw the compass on the top of the screen (^ v ^)
.
.
|
Aoena Rays
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
445
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 13:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nice stuff there, I agree with most of it. Also I want UI to tell me what weapon I switched to on the UI itself and not to be hidden somewhere. |
IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
1015
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Please please please add N,S,E,W onto the minimap as well as the "compass" you have on the top of the screen. PLEASE!
I assume that compass on the top will eventually rotate, but wanted to ensure you are actually placing the nautical directions onto it.
Also putting the grid coordinates somewhere on the HUD would be nice (EX: B5). So its not only easy to reference for technical problems, but also to give those supplying OBs a more definitive target. Match the grid coordinates with the ones already published in the "map feedback" section of the forums. Place these grid coordinates on the full screen map as well.
Youtube
|
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
342
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think the HUD feature I was the most excited to see was compass bearing (despite it not being functional in the demo). It's a very important tool for efficient fire-team co-ordination.
I'd like to see more tools to help players co-ordinate more efficiently:
- Map markers: Let players place markers and notes on the map to help co-ordinate team efforts.
- Team hierarchy (equivalent of fleets in EVE): Enable players to have dedicated leader positions, with a display of who is in your fire-team/squad, and their role.
- Role icons: Should be player selected during fitting, not automatic, as the players know best what role a given fitting is meant to play; give us a handful of icons to pick from (wrench, asterisk, arrow, double arrow, diagonal line, etc...).
- Assigning color to squad members (red/blue/green/yellow): Enable squad leaders to break up groups into more manageable chunks.
- N/S/E/W marks on the radar/map: With an option to set the radar to be static or rotating depending on player preference.
|
Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
412
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5626
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 19:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Look man, I'm just glad they brought back the HUD bobbing. Immersion to the max.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
DaReaperPW
Net 7
The Last Brigade
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 19:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
not sure if this was noted, but as legion will be on pc, so easier to move things I guess, make the hud customizable. allow me to move my icons, notices, graphs, whatever to any position I like, so if I want my map that shows ppl around me in the dead center of the screen, I can do that. ;) |
|
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2017
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 20:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
...
I kinda like this current setup.
Can we keep that as an option for our HUD?
Because you wanted to be something you're not.
|
Vin Vicious
Capital Acquisitions LLC
668
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 07:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
[Ideas]
All ideas are based on picture below:
-Replace the two digit numbers at the top of the screen with a functional compass(north northeast northwest etc.)
-Place mini-map upper right corner not upper left(better yet give us the option to choose
-Leave bottom screen information placement where they are
-Squad member health status middle left screen like in provided picture but less obnoxious and a lot smaller
Current example blocks your left view
Possibly Transparent
http://m.imgur.com/msKw7zp
Racial HUDs
'#PCMasterRace
|
Argos Du'Gannon
Dead Man's Game
22
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 07:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
HUD ideas |
John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
Steel Balls Alliance
623
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
First, remove the enemy commander chevron!
It looks as his suits equipped with a special module that tells the enemy's his status.
Second, remove the stupid +50 for each kill, or make them can be disabled manually.
We are not in COD or BF half-arcade games!
Dear Comrades!
We can give developers a lot of good ideas, but above all we must point out the obvious flaws!
...sorry for bad English =)
|
Your Absolut End
The Rainbow Effect
Dirt Nap Squad.
499
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Radar changes
-Introduce different chevrons for different suits (light, medium heavy) just like we have for vehicles
Different suits have different scansignatures which will obviously tell your tacnet what you will be facing
-Make the N mark more prominent, its barely visible most of the times and introduce WES aswell to help locating enemy troups
-Introduce an easy read grid in meters to it, most new players dont understand the measurements
-Add medium blue environment marks to show of if something is IN or OUTSIDE of a building
-introduce a small arrow facing up or down to show of if displayed signature is above or underneath current location
-Make size ov radar resizable in options menue, maybe with an option to set ur own ranges
General HUD
I like the general way the HUD behaves but let's talk about a better performing HUD
-Locate the Heat build up/charge bar around the crosshair
Especially in hot firefights in good to know how far you can go, especially with laser weaponary.
-Introduce a bar with current status on squadmates, like the one we already got on the respan screen with same specifications (dead, in vehicle, on turret etc.) + introduce a status on their current health, and ammo stock (specially useful on logis)
-Move info about MCC and clone reseves on top part of the screen, they are often undetected under the radar
-Give the option to change the colour of your your crosshair,
the game is settled mostly in sepia tones, so being forced to use a light yellow dot on amarrian technologie makes the already small dot often invisible, especially when fighting in sandy scenery.
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3157
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Radar map Compass directions & Coordinates:
N is not enough. We need E, W, and S as well so we donGÇÖt have to do mental calculations when facing South to determine whether the Sniper to our left is in the East or the West. I am a Cartographer in real life and even I have to stop and think for a moment when giving directions.
Personally I would prefer to have North always at the top of the radar map, and an arrow on my dot to tell me which way I am facing. It would also make it easier to orient yourself to what you can remember of the spawn map. But if they insist on spinning the map so that the direction you are facing is up, then they need to indicate the other compass directions.
Also, displaying Coordinates below the radar map for your position, which correspond to a grid on the spawn map, would help a lot!
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3158
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:
GÇó Overview map needs an overhaul. There's too much information that one can gleam by simply going to the over view map. Where is that sniper? Where is that tank? Where is the bulk of enemy forces? Just go to the overview map and its there; anything that isn't blue is an enemy, you don't need the red tags to figure that out. And It shouldn't be that way. I should have to coordinate with scouts, dropships, LAVs, capsuleers, etc. or drop some specialized equipment on the map for scans. There needs to be a "fog of war" to allow information gathering to be critical in game.
To get the "fog of war" I mentioned, we need to change the way the map is presented. We can't simply render the entire map and choose not to render in the enemies because that would not make sense immersion wise. I can see the entire field from a camera above the battle but I cant see my un-scanned enemies? I recommend changing the current live video stream overview map into a contour map that some unknown sensors took a 3D scan from orbit. Don't forget to add elevation, buildings and obstacles, longitude and latitude. A benefit of going this route may be shorter times in bringing up the overview map.
I like the live satellite image feed from the Warbarge that we have now. You canGÇÖt really pick out anything smaller than a LAV without a tag on it unless they are shooting at something.
If you want tanks to be able to hide from the satellite cameras, give them cammo. Currently if I want to hide my tank I park under pipes or bridges.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3158
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
I missed that! Yeah, that would be a big help!
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hey Everybody, CCP MC Peanut here--new to the forums (and this is my first post). I'm a Technical Artist here in Shanghai and was mostly involved in the HUD upgrade for the Project Legion Prototype you saw at Fanfest. I'm excited you guys noticed the work and are discussing it. The feedback is super awesome too (so awesome I forwarded the post to a lot of other devs). I thought I would jump in and give a little further explanation about what we did and potentially where we can go from here.
The HUD that you see in the Project Legion Prototype showed at Fanfest is now being rendered inside the 3D Scene. This is a significant change. While what you saw in the demo isn't incredibly different to what was there before, I want to emphasize that we have completely changed the underlying system for creating HUDs and have built a pipeline that puts the artist and designers much closer to the implementation. What you saw was the first implementation with the new system. And while the demo doesn't demonstrate it all--everything is working. In a very short time (a few weeks maybe), a few of us rebuilt the HUD, recreated all the logic, and tuned it to a slightly new visual design.
I'd love to go a little more in depth and explain some of the cooler benefits we are finding with this change:
Artist and Designers can iterate like crazy:
Unreal already has a lot of robust tools available to it, so why not take advantage of them. One of the things the artist love the most is being able to play the game with the editor open and update their material parameters in real-time. The 3D HUD is heavily utilizing the Unreal Material system. For example, all the 'bars' stem from the same base material, which has parameters to control the scale of the ticks, space between, color (including switching the color over position), flashing (speed and color). Tuning these parameters in-game is pretty awesome and very easy. Another example, the most obvious one probably, is that since it is 3D, we can change the position and layout very easily--it is as simple as moving it in the 3D package (Maya) and re-importing the geometry.
Logic outside of code
This was an interesting choice, but I believe it was the right one. We are exposing game data to the artist/designer through events in the visual scripting system, called Kismet (if you aren't familiar with Kismet, it is a node based scripting tool provided within Unreal that allows artists and designers to do more 'programmatic' things). With this change, much of the logic is in the hands of the content creators--the programmers are only responsible for providing the information when applicable. This sounds like it could become overwhelming, and we have been careful about not suddenly dumping everything in their laps. I can give one example. When your shield value changes, an event will be fired (a kismet event inside the HUD map file). This event will expose the current and max shield value. Luckily, our bar material has a max and current parameter input, so we just update the values (using a Kismet action) and all is good. While this is something that sounds like it could be completely programmatic, it is so much nicer to give the content creators the flexibility. If we wanted to, we could trigger a distortion animation every time the armor value changed, and as the armor got lower, the distortion could be more significant. This would require zero programmer support.
Lots of technology to utilize
Because we are in 3D we have access to all the rendering technology as other 3D stuff (suits, weapons, environments). We can also utilize the same tools (materials, modeling, an animation) that our 3D artists are familiar with, so the transition for workflow, was not so bad.
Capacity to be Dynamic
I can't make any promises about racial HUDs, but we are definitely in a much better position to be able to do them. It is very easy to create new 'visual' components without needing to rework the data hookup--and they would be lightweight and low cost.
There is more, and I could go on, but perhaps that is better for follow up posts. Our hope is that we have built a system the is flexible enough to give us more options to do the kinds of things you guys are asking for. Regarding these requests, I can definitely weigh in on their possibility within the system, but I am unable to comment on the likelihood (that is someone else's call). Please keep the feedback coming, and feel free to post follow up questions.
thanks! |
|
Hecarim Van Hohen
1432
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Hey Everybody, CCP MC Peanut here--new to the forums (and this is my first post).
Well here's your first +1
State your stance on EVE:Legion
t¢«_t¢«
|
|
|
Joseph Tasun
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aiming Deadzone that continuously re-centres the reticule? See ArmA for an optional deadzone that doesn't recentre. |
Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
613
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:Hey Everybody, CCP MC Peanut here--new to the forums (and this is my first post). Well here's your first +1
Have another!
+1
MajLagSpike
CPM Application
|
Vaux Karn
The Mercenary Collective
81
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Agree with everything OP said with one condition. Customizable opacity for individual HUD objects. I say individual HUD objects because I want to be able to tune certain things to make them less obstructive without making thins like the radar harder to see. |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
952
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 10:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Hey Everybody, CCP MC Peanut here--
(cool things)
First things first, great dev name.
Second, thanks for basically writing out a dev blogs worth of cool info. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2074
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 11:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
+1 OP. Sounds like solid design and sounds like you're planning for the future. Sounds like you're making Unreal work for you.
In terms of system resources, how does your implementation compare with what we currently have in DUST?
PSN: RationalSpark
|
Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
485
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 14:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
+1 Looking forward to racial HUDs. |
IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles.
1022
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 15:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:thanks!
No, thank you for all that information. You sir are awesome.
Youtube
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8476
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 16:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Hey Everybody, CCP MC Peanut here--new to the forums (and this is my first post). I'm a Technical Artist here in Shanghai and was mostly involved in the HUD upgrade for the Project Legion Prototype you saw at Fanfest. I'm excited you guys noticed the work and are discussing it. The feedback is super awesome too (so awesome I forwarded the post to a lot of other devs). I thought I would jump in and give a little further explanation about what we did and potentially where we can go from here.
The HUD that you see in the Project Legion Prototype showed at Fanfest is now being rendered inside the 3D Scene. This is a significant change. While what you saw in the demo isn't incredibly different to what was there before, I want to emphasize that we have completely changed the underlying system for creating HUDs and have built a pipeline that puts the artist and designers much closer to the implementation. What you saw was the first implementation with the new system. And while the demo doesn't demonstrate it all--everything is working. In a very short time (a few weeks maybe), a few of us rebuilt the HUD, recreated all the logic, and tuned it to a slightly new visual design.
I'd love to go a little more in depth and explain some of the cooler benefits we are finding with this change:
Artist and Designers can iterate like crazy:
Unreal already has a lot of robust tools available to it, so why not take advantage of them. One of the things the artist love the most is being able to play the game with the editor open and update their material parameters in real-time. The 3D HUD is heavily utilizing the Unreal Material system. For example, all the 'bars' stem from the same base material, which has parameters to control the scale of the ticks, space between, color (including switching the color over position), flashing (speed and color). Tuning these parameters in-game is pretty awesome and very easy. Another example, the most obvious one probably, is that since it is 3D, we can change the position and layout very easily--it is as simple as moving it in the 3D package (Maya) and re-importing the geometry.
Logic outside of code
This was an interesting choice, but I believe it was the right one. We are exposing game data to the artist/designer through events in the visual scripting system, called Kismet (if you aren't familiar with Kismet, it is a node based scripting tool provided within Unreal that allows artists and designers to do more 'programmatic' things). With this change, much of the logic is in the hands of the content creators--the programmers are only responsible for providing the information when applicable. This sounds like it could become overwhelming, and we have been careful about not suddenly dumping everything in their laps. I can give one example. When your shield value changes, an event will be fired (a kismet event inside the HUD map file). This event will expose the current and max shield value. Luckily, our bar material has a max and current parameter input, so we just update the values (using a Kismet action) and all is good. While this is something that sounds like it could be completely programmatic, it is so much nicer to give the content creators the flexibility. If we wanted to, we could trigger a distortion animation every time the armor value changed, and as the armor got lower, the distortion could be more significant. This would require zero programmer support.
Lots of technology to utilize
Because we are in 3D we have access to all the rendering technology as other 3D stuff (suits, weapons, environments). We can also utilize the same tools (materials, modeling, an animation) that our 3D artists are familiar with, so the transition for workflow, was not so bad.
Capacity to be Dynamic
I can't make any promises about racial HUDs, but we are definitely in a much better position to be able to do them. It is very easy to create new 'visual' components without needing to rework the data hookup--and they would be lightweight and low cost.
There is more, and I could go on, but perhaps that is better for follow up posts. Our hope is that we have built a system the is flexible enough to give us more options to do the kinds of things you guys are asking for. Regarding these requests, I can definitely weigh in on their possibility within the system, but I am unable to comment on the likelihood (that is someone else's call). Please keep the feedback coming, and feel free to post follow up questions.
thanks!
WHAT BLACK MAGIC IS THIS?!!??!
A DEV? COMMUNICATING SUCH EXTENSIVE DETAILS WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR? KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
443
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 16:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
WHAT BLACK MAGIC IS THIS?!!??!
A DEV? COMMUNICATING SUCH EXTENSIVE DETAILS WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR? KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!
NO, MAK! NOOOOO!
|
Captain Crutches
Nexus Marines
105
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 17:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut is so new he's still in an NPC corp - and a primarily Eve-side one at that!
Get this man in corp, CCP, you need more posters like him!
Legion is absolutely the right move for the future of Dust. How CCP went about revealing it is the biggest problem.
|
|
|
|
CCP Saberwing
C C P
C C P Alliance
4435
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 17:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Captain Crutches wrote:CCP MC Peanut is so new he's still in an NPC corp - and a primarily Eve-side one at that!
Get this man in corp, CCP, you need more posters like him!
I'm on it! Must assimilate him in to the CCP Alliance...
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
|
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
13129
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 17:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Captain Crutches wrote:CCP MC Peanut is so new he's still in an NPC corp - and a primarily Eve-side one at that!
Get this man in corp, CCP, you need more posters like him! I'm on it! Must assimilate him in to the CCP Alliance...
\o/
MC Peanut is a pretty cool name, as well. 
I know the key to Logibro's heart
Devposting in legion discussion is 10/10
|
DUST Fiend
The Wings of Legion
14293
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 17:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:- snip -!
<3
Keep up the awesome posts
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
614
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 20:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Please please please add N,S,E,W onto the minimap as well as the "compass" you have on the top of the screen. PLEASE!
I assume that compass on the top will eventually rotate, but wanted to ensure you are actually placing the nautical directions onto it.
Also putting the grid coordinates somewhere on the HUD would be nice (EX: B5). So its not only easy to reference for technical problems, but also to give those supplying OBs a more definitive target. Match the grid coordinates with the ones already published in the "map feedback" section of the forums. Place these grid coordinates on the full screen map as well.
This so much. Really would be very helpful to call directions!
Would it be possible to get a spotting feature in Legion or is that a game design issues that you would need to talk about / do not want? |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
349
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 20:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:
Would it be possible to get a spotting feature in Legion or is that a game design issues that you would need to talk about / do not want?
That's what the combat scanner is for. |
Hecarim Van Hohen
1439
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Captain Crutches wrote:CCP MC Peanut is so new he's still in an NPC corp - and a primarily Eve-side one at that!
Get this man in corp, CCP, you need more posters like him! I'm on it! Must assimilate him in to the CCP Alliance...
By assimilate you mean something like this?
Also would the community like that people who fire their (non-silenced) weapons to cause a red "blip" on the radar? Depending on the range and weapon used the "blip" would stay longer, for example shotgun at 2m would cause a blip lasting 1sec and a pistol at 50m for 0.1sec, and as always times are just examples.
(confession: I didn't read the thread)
(GÿPn+ƒpâ«n+ƒ)GÿP Set a course for intercourse Gÿ£(n+ƒpâ«n+ƒGÿ£)
|
medomai grey
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
729
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Captain Crutches wrote:CCP MC Peanut is so new he's still in an NPC corp - and a primarily Eve-side one at that!
Get this man in corp, CCP, you need more posters like him! I'm on it! Must assimilate him in to the CCP Alliance... By assimilate you mean something like this? Also would the community like that people who fire their (non-silenced) weapons to cause a red "blip" on the radar? Depending on the range and weapon used the "blip" would stay longer, for example shotgun at 2m would cause a blip lasting 1sec and a pistol at 50m for 0.1sec, and as always times are just examples. (confession: I didn't read the thread) This is a good idea. But it belongs in a EWAR Ideas thread. By the way, did anyone make an EWAR thread yet? EWAR needs an overhaul too.
Medium frame EHP is not medium
|
Hecarim Van Hohen
1441
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Captain Crutches wrote:CCP MC Peanut is so new he's still in an NPC corp - and a primarily Eve-side one at that!
Get this man in corp, CCP, you need more posters like him! I'm on it! Must assimilate him in to the CCP Alliance... By assimilate you mean something like this? Also would the community like that people who fire their (non-silenced) weapons to cause a red "blip" on the radar? Depending on the range and weapon used the "blip" would stay longer, for example shotgun at 2m would cause a blip lasting 1sec and a pistol at 50m for 0.1sec, and as always times are just examples. (confession: I didn't read the thread) This is a good idea. But it belongs in a EWAR Ideas thread. By the way, did anyone make an EWAR thread yet? EWAR needs an overhaul too.
Thanks for the compliment 
as for a EWAR thread, I haven't seen one so I'm going to say no and I agree that EWAR needs an overhaul and added depth
(GÿPn+ƒpâ«n+ƒ)GÿP Set a course for intercourse Gÿ£(n+ƒpâ«n+ƒGÿ£)
|
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
748
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 22:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
This is US Military, unclasified report (PDF), called Future Soldier 2030 Initiative, dated 2009RDECOM wrote:(...)Core capabilities:
GÇó Monitor network data feeds to alert Soldier to mission-critical information (semantic
data bot)
GÇó Monitor ammunition and other stores and automatically call for resupply
GÇó Provide reminders (memory joggers)
GÇó Anticipate information needs and facilitate data access and retrieval
GÇó Handle routine communications based on minimal input from Soldier
GÇó Monitor the SoldierGÇÖs mental and physical state, shaping information flow, suggesting
mitigations, alerting leadership
GÇó Communicate with other PIAs to optimize data integration and sharing across unit
members
GÇó Adapt to an individual SoldierGÇÖs personality, strengths, and weaknesses
GÇó Communicate with Soldier via a natural language interface and heads-up display(...)
And here is another short report on various approaches of addressing information overload in present days cockpits/HUDs
Pentagon Preps Mind Fields for Smarter War Stations (some methods require fMRI or EEG in real time  )
WiReD wrote:(...)The idea -- to grossly over-simplify -- is that people have more than one kind of working memory, and more than one kind of attention; there are separate slots in the mind for things written, things heard and things seen. By monitoring how taxed those areas of the brain are, it should be possible to change a computer's display, to compensate. If a person's getting too much visual information, send him a text alert. If that person is reading too much at once, present some of the data visually -- in a chart or map.(...) I am not sure if you find this wholly applicable to DUST/Legion buit i felt it sorta is ...partially It might be of some help when deciding on HUD design and avoid information overload or enhance players performance. Maybe some HUD features would need an upgrade requiring some skills training? Just kidding Or not?!
F.E.A.R. stands for False Expectations Assumed Real
|
Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
447
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 22:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
I've decided I like the health bar better at the top center.
Better just make it customizable. Tomorrow I might decide I want the health and ammo meters in the top corners and the radar centered at the bottom.
|
|
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5631
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 22:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Hey Everybody, CCP MC Peanut here--new to the forums (and this is my first post). I'm a Technical Artist here in Shanghai and was mostly involved in the HUD upgrade for the Project Legion Prototype you saw at Fanfest. I'm excited you guys noticed the work and are discussing it. The feedback is super awesome too (so awesome I forwarded the post to a lot of other devs). I thought I would jump in and give a little further explanation about what we did and potentially where we can go from here.
The HUD that you see in the Project Legion Prototype showed at Fanfest is now being rendered inside the 3D Scene. This is a significant change. While what you saw in the demo isn't incredibly different to what was there before, I want to emphasize that we have completely changed the underlying system for creating HUDs and have built a pipeline that puts the artist and designers much closer to the implementation. What you saw was the first implementation with the new system. And while the demo doesn't demonstrate it all--everything is working. In a very short time (a few weeks maybe), a few of us rebuilt the HUD, recreated all the logic, and tuned it to a slightly new visual design.
I'd love to go a little more in depth and explain some of the cooler benefits we are finding with this change:
Artist and Designers can iterate like crazy:
Unreal already has a lot of robust tools available to it, so why not take advantage of them. One of the things the artist love the most is being able to play the game with the editor open and update their material parameters in real-time. The 3D HUD is heavily utilizing the Unreal Material system. For example, all the 'bars' stem from the same base material, which has parameters to control the scale of the ticks, space between, color (including switching the color over position), flashing (speed and color). Tuning these parameters in-game is pretty awesome and very easy. Another example, the most obvious one probably, is that since it is 3D, we can change the position and layout very easily--it is as simple as moving it in the 3D package (Maya) and re-importing the geometry.
Logic outside of code
This was an interesting choice, but I believe it was the right one. We are exposing game data to the artist/designer through events in the visual scripting system, called Kismet (if you aren't familiar with Kismet, it is a node based scripting tool provided within Unreal that allows artists and designers to do more 'programmatic' things). With this change, much of the logic is in the hands of the content creators--the programmers are only responsible for providing the information when applicable. This sounds like it could become overwhelming, and we have been careful about not suddenly dumping everything in their laps. I can give one example. When your shield value changes, an event will be fired (a kismet event inside the HUD map file). This event will expose the current and max shield value. Luckily, our bar material has a max and current parameter input, so we just update the values (using a Kismet action) and all is good. While this is something that sounds like it could be completely programmatic, it is so much nicer to give the content creators the flexibility. If we wanted to, we could trigger a distortion animation every time the armor value changed, and as the armor got lower, the distortion could be more significant. This would require zero programmer support.
Lots of technology to utilize
Because we are in 3D we have access to all the rendering technology as other 3D stuff (suits, weapons, environments). We can also utilize the same tools (materials, modeling, an animation) that our 3D artists are familiar with, so the transition for workflow, was not so bad.
Capacity to be Dynamic
I can't make any promises about racial HUDs, but we are definitely in a much better position to be able to do them. It is very easy to create new 'visual' components without needing to rework the data hookup--and they would be lightweight and low cost.
There is more, and I could go on, but perhaps that is better for follow up posts. Our hope is that we have built a system the is flexible enough to give us more options to do the kinds of things you guys are asking for. Regarding these requests, I can definitely weigh in on their possibility within the system, but I am unable to comment on the likelihood (that is someone else's call). Please keep the feedback coming, and feel free to post follow up questions.
thanks!
Yanno what would be really cool outside of Racial HUDs is customization. Ways for us to modify the way the HUD is presented if we don't like the circular read-out and would prefer a typical bar or column style display for our Armor/Shield HP and Ammo readout. These sort of modular changes would make you a great favorite of the community if only because the HUD is personalized to the player, much like their dropsuit(s).
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
599
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Hey Everybody, CCP MC Peanut here--new to the forums (and this is my first post). I'm a Technical Artist here in Shanghai and was mostly involved in the HUD upgrade for the Project Legion Prototype you saw at Fanfest. I'm excited you guys noticed the work and are discussing it. The feedback is super awesome too (so awesome I forwarded the post to a lot of other devs). I thought I would jump in and give a little further explanation about what we did and potentially where we can go from here.
The HUD that you see in the Project Legion Prototype showed at Fanfest is now being rendered inside the 3D Scene. This is a significant change. While what you saw in the demo isn't incredibly different to what was there before, I want to emphasize that we have completely changed the underlying system for creating HUDs and have built a pipeline that puts the artist and designers much closer to the implementation. What you saw was the first implementation with the new system. And while the demo doesn't demonstrate it all--everything is working. In a very short time (a few weeks maybe), a few of us rebuilt the HUD, recreated all the logic, and tuned it to a slightly new visual design.
I'd love to go a little more in depth and explain some of the cooler benefits we are finding with this change:
Artist and Designers can iterate like crazy:
Unreal already has a lot of robust tools available to it, so why not take advantage of them. One of the things the artist love the most is being able to play the game with the editor open and update their material parameters in real-time. The 3D HUD is heavily utilizing the Unreal Material system. For example, all the 'bars' stem from the same base material, which has parameters to control the scale of the ticks, space between, color (including switching the color over position), flashing (speed and color). Tuning these parameters in-game is pretty awesome and very easy. Another example, the most obvious one probably, is that since it is 3D, we can change the position and layout very easily--it is as simple as moving it in the 3D package (Maya) and re-importing the geometry.
Logic outside of code
This was an interesting choice, but I believe it was the right one. We are exposing game data to the artist/designer through events in the visual scripting system, called Kismet (if you aren't familiar with Kismet, it is a node based scripting tool provided within Unreal that allows artists and designers to do more 'programmatic' things). With this change, much of the logic is in the hands of the content creators--the programmers are only responsible for providing the information when applicable. This sounds like it could become overwhelming, and we have been careful about not suddenly dumping everything in their laps. I can give one example. When your shield value changes, an event will be fired (a kismet event inside the HUD map file). This event will expose the current and max shield value. Luckily, our bar material has a max and current parameter input, so we just update the values (using a Kismet action) and all is good. While this is something that sounds like it could be completely programmatic, it is so much nicer to give the content creators the flexibility. If we wanted to, we could trigger a distortion animation every time the armor value changed, and as the armor got lower, the distortion could be more significant. This would require zero programmer support.
Lots of technology to utilize
Because we are in 3D we have access to all the rendering technology as other 3D stuff (suits, weapons, environments). We can also utilize the same tools (materials, modeling, an animation) that our 3D artists are familiar with, so the transition for workflow, was not so bad.
Capacity to be Dynamic
I can't make any promises about racial HUDs, but we are definitely in a much better position to be able to do them. It is very easy to create new 'visual' components without needing to rework the data hookup--and they would be lightweight and low cost.
There is more, and I could go on, but perhaps that is better for follow up posts. Our hope is that we have built a system the is flexible enough to give us more options to do the kinds of things you guys are asking for. Regarding these requests, I can definitely weigh in on their possibility within the system, but I am unable to comment on the likelihood (that is someone else's call). Please keep the feedback coming, and feel free to post follow up questions.
thanks!
Thank you for finally putting the compass at the top of the screen - shame that you couldn't do this for Dust 514 as it has been in the ideas and feedback for over 2 years. |
|
CCP MC Peanut
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 09:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:
First things first, great dev name.
Second, thanks for basically writing out a dev blogs worth of cool info.
Thanks, and thank you for the great welcome (to everyone)
Vaux Karn wrote:Customizable opacity for individual HUD objects. I say individual HUD objects because I want to be able to tune certain things to make them less obstructive without making thins like the radar harder to see.
This is a cool idea and is likely possible. One way we could set this up is have root materials for each component and make sure that every element on said component inherits from this root. Then we set the opacity value on the root material and all the children update. The only issue is that some materials already have parents. Armor and Ammo share the same parent material that deals with 'all things bars'. We could work around this by creating an intermediate root (hierarchy depth isn't expensive) of like "WeaponBars" and "SuitBars". That could be managable--it isn't what we have setup currently, but it also wouldn't be a big deal to make that change. There may be another way to do this by using the mesh information (since components would be on a related mesh): we may be able to pack some information (opacity scale) into the mesh actor that can be exposed to the shader (and be used as a scaler on opacity). To me, that would be a bit cleaner, but I'd have to check on with an engineer on packing that data.
Vrain Matari wrote:In terms of system resources, how does your implementation compare with what we currently have in DUST?
We haven't done thorough testing on cpu performance, but rendering performance is pretty good because we are using the same rendering technology as the game; also our shader use is really efficiently (3 base shaders so far). In terms of texture memory, we achieved a great reduction. The previous HUD used a massive texture atlas. Each HUD element requires unique pixel information. The new 3D HUD, since it uses polygons and shaders, doesn't. For example, in the bars, the curvature is done on the polygons and the texture is tiled across them, so we ended up needing about 64 x 64 total pixels of texture memory to display all variety of bars. The previous HUD wasn't able to do this and required a LOT more texture memory. Also the previous HUD couldn't benefit from shaders, so some elements had color variations duplicated in the textures.
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:
This is cool and seems very relevent--I can pass it on to the designers. We like to look at how other people do things.
A fair amount of responses related to Racial Huds, Customization, and the Minimap, so I'll try to address those here:
Minimap Improvement
I may have been a little unclear in my first post when I proudly said we moved everything to 3D. Definitely everything in the hud is rendered on a polygon, but some of the textures are still going through the old system, output to a renderTarget texture and mapped to a material on said polygon. The minimap is one of these elements that is coming form the renderTarget (also the text). This is actually very common practice for 3D Huds/UIs, but it is not as scalable or dynamic as going full 3D. We can still utilize Unreal Materials, but it isn't as robust. For example, I can adjust the color of the minimap, but I can't easily adjust the color of only the enemy icons (without changing the renderTarget or touching source textures). The minimap looks visually different because a UI Designer updated the source textures, but the behavior is still technically the same. We actually knew ahead that the Minimap was going to be complicated so, given the time constraint, we made the decision to use it as a renderTarget with the hopes of coming up with a robust system later. Likely what we are looking at is some way of representing 3D Icon/Marker positons, with the position proided by the game (converted into a local space coordinate).
The things we will need to watch out for are:
* positional updates happen frequently and may be costly to performance
* many elements (markers) to position may be costly if they are all unique actors
The benefits we will get:
* easy to tune visual look of individual elements (markers)
* easy to adjust the position or orientation, or coordinate space the icons fall in
* can attach events or states to markers and do things (like flash, glow, scale)
Racial Huds
Super cool how much you guys have thought about this and the designs are absolutely amazing. Technically speaking, the workflow for doing racial HUDs is no different than the workflow for creating the Fanfest HUD, but repeat for each race. The old HUD system was less scalable and not incredibly dynamic, so doing this would have been a fair undertaking. The new HUD system is much more scalable, efficient, and implements easier, so we probably aren't looking at nearly the same cost.
There are still some elements (Minimap for example) in the new HUD that are just 'old hud system mapped as a texture'--these would either need to be fully recreated in 3D, or we would be forced to create their racial variants in the old system and map them to a texture. Since there are only a limited number of races, having to do some of the racial variants in the hybrid way doesn't immediately rule it out, but it would require us to carefully look at the costs and make sure we don't exceed limitations. That being said, we don't want to have to compromise and be held back by un-scalable things, and are currently having truckloads of coffee and other brainstorming-favorable snacks imported into the country.
Customization
Customization is definitely easier with a 3D dynamic system. The HUD polygons meshes are already broken into groups and can be moved independently. So technically, yes this is very possible, but there are some considerations to be aware of:
* Each group has it's own pivot point for movement (and not all are the same), if we move these around, we would need to make sure the pivot point is adjust correctly too
* If we add 3d Animations (not the movement stuff) for the HUD (we haven't yet and it is undecided yet if we will) t... |
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2818
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 10:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
MC Peanut wrote:
More cool stuff
Im not sure how proficient you are with programming or what kismet allows you to do but, with HUD Bars etc.
You should be able to have to an individual abstract class (Weapon Bars or Health Bars like you said) where you can implement certain functions to be inherited by each bar, alternatively.
You could use an abstract method to set up all bars the same, then wrap dynamically created classes.
I.e Class name: Armour Bar (contains instances of Armour Bar Segement)
This way with a little clever logic you can
1) Standardise a behaviour method for all bars, so they all react in the same way
2) Overload the behaviour method, so there is only 1 method call with multiple effects
3) Inherit these methods for over writing.
Once again, I'm not familar with the limitations of Kismet, but you may find the abstract approach more useful in the future.
As for HUD improvements I would like to see bar style implementations for grenades and explosives, also once again not sure how possible, but looking at a nanohive should allow me to see it's effects and nanites remaing while, drop uplinks should allow me to see its spawn timer, number of spawns left and the number of people queing.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 12:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
You could use an abstract method to set up all bars the same, then wrap dynamically created classes.
I.e Class name: Armour Bar (contains instances of Armour Bar Segement)
This way with a little clever logic you can
1) Standardise a behaviour method for all bars, so they all react in the same way
2) Overload the behaviour method, so there is only 1 method call with multiple effects
3) Inherit these methods for over writing.
.
Actually you pretty much hit the nail on the head with what we were doing with the Bar setup and other HUD functionality (although it is pretty Bar-stuff heavy). Rather than creating actor classes, though, we've put everything in a hierarchical material setup. It is 'fairly' object oriented, in that I can define parameters (barValue, barScale, barColor) on the parent material that can be overridden on the child materials. It is by no means as robust as driving this with classes, though--so your suggestion still makes me consider the alternative. Another benefit to keeping things in materials is that we can do upgrades and changes on the content side. I can edit the shader to have distortion, expose the parameter, and set it (on the root material) in kismet. Pretty nifty.
I do think if we try to implement a standardized 3d icon system, that this is the way to go (as we will have more complexity with states and such) |
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2819
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 12:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
You could use an abstract method to set up all bars the same, then wrap dynamically created classes.
I.e Class name: Armour Bar (contains instances of Armour Bar Segement)
This way with a little clever logic you can
1) Standardise a behaviour method for all bars, so they all react in the same way
2) Overload the behaviour method, so there is only 1 method call with multiple effects
3) Inherit these methods for over writing.
.
Actually you pretty much hit the nail on the head with what we were doing with the Bar setup and other HUD functionality (although it is pretty Bar-stuff heavy). Rather than creating actor classes, though, we've put everything in a hierarchical material setup. It is 'fairly' object oriented, in that I can define parameters (barValue, barScale, barColor) on the parent material that can be overridden on the child materials. It is by no means as robust as driving this with classes, though--so your suggestion still makes me consider the alternative. Another benefit to keeping things in materials is that we can do upgrades and changes on the content side. I can edit the shader to have distortion, expose the parameter, and set it (on the root material) in kismet. Pretty nifty. I do think if we try to implement a standardized 3d icon system, that this is the way to go (as we will have more complexity with states and such)
Awsome, I can only assume you are doing the same with the listener classes as well then? Since you could overload a single action to have many effects. The kismet sounds pretty damn cool, although I'm not a game designer, it's this kinda logic I'm interested in.
Concerning the Racial Variant HUD's I think the first step is just to give us different colors of the base set up,
Caldari: Blue
Minmatar: Brown
Gallante: Green
Amarr: Gold
Since it's the easiest thing to do, it makes a good intermediary step.
Then when it comes to fully fledged seperate HUD, you'll proabbly wan't to wrap the class again.
Armour Bar > Armour Bar Segement Rules > Armour Bar Segement Render
Then have the colors referenced from the render, that way when you are acting the rules you can just overload again.
If that makes sense/ is possible?
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
622
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 13:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
@ CCP MC Peanut - Wow man! Keep those posts coming over the weeks and months to come man! That's a whole lot of useful information you are posting. Awesome!
I'm super happy that you now have the possibility to do racial HUD`s - I really feel that will add to immersion! I always pictured The Amarr hud to be the counter opposite to the Minmatar HUD. Amarr being super shiny and smooth, the Minmatar being basic and crude. While the Gallente and Caldari being somewhat similar in design as they were very close at points in EVE lore.
I am also really happy to hear that by using the new systems that you are even able to reduce the load that the UI will require from the system, that's awesome too! |
Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
215
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 16:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
Dev you need to walk the maps in heavy suits to fine hugged or areas the heavys get stuck on.Some spawns currently put the heavys in spots that they can not get out from because they can't jump high enough. |
IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles.
1031
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 17:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
MC Peanut,
Is it possible to make the health bars more dynamic based on shields vs armor? So that when you are shooting someone you have an idea where their "tank" is?
So for example the armor bar would be red and the shield bar would be blue. Each would be proportional to their total HP.
Youtube
|
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
752
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 22:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Minimap ideas:
You could move even further with the minimap. Just show the "current" fragment of the already present map (the one you can access with D-Pad in DUST ) And paint those gridlines on both maps... Have you ever saw a modern day map without the gridlines? Ah yes... google maps don't use them too And we need a coordinate system reading for referring our positions to teammates... There are going to be large maps in Legion. Aren't they?
In the DUST Keynote Legion demo one can see a bearing (compass) readout and a pair of "000"s (placeholder for coordinates?) separated by a "diamond shape" figure (what's it's purpose?) at the top of the screen. But its all static in the course of the video. Would you shine some light on it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_GRjNL7l40&list=PLldrBIEnJ5hMIXwk_e8-VZb0EldJqXmg_#t=1314
Maybe its just MCC HP bars and clone counters?
F.E.A.R. stands for False Expectations Assumed Real
|
|
|
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
175
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 00:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
Legion begins :) MC awesome Dev to community communication
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
|
Disturbingly Bored
Forum Warfare
2269
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 01:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:MC awesome Dev to community communication
No kidding! See CCP? This is what you get for giving detailed, in-depth answers.
THIS ----> <3
And THIS ----> <3 <3 <3
AND THIS -----> <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - draconian forum overlord CCP Logibro]
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8506
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 01:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
You see, CCP? YOU SEE THIS? ^^^^^^^^^^
THIS. IS. HOW. YOU. COMMUNICATE!
Thank you CCP MC Peanut. ;)
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9623
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 04:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
Question: Since this new method is memory efficient, would this work on DUST and the PS3?
Considering it has 256mb of VRAM, I would assume every little bit counts, and could somewhat improve performance.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
DeeJay One
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
305
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 06:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:You could move even further with the minimap. Just show the "current" fragment of the already present map (the one you can access with D-Pad in DUST )
We had this in Mordu's Private Trials ;) |
DeeJay One
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
305
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 06:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Please keep the wobbly HUD version, we had that in MPT and it was awesome. The static HUD is boring.... |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
753
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 09:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:You could move even further with the minimap. Just show the "current" fragment of the already present map (the one you can access with D-Pad in DUST ) We had this in Mordu's Private Trials ;) So this would be not an improvement but a step backward?!
F.E.A.R. stands for False Expectations Assumed Real
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
86
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 11:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:MC Peanut,
Is it possible to make the health bars more dynamic based on shields vs armor? So that when you are shooting someone you have an idea where their "tank" is?
So for example the armor bar would be red and the shield bar would be blue. Each would be proportional to their total HP.
I might not be understanding your question correctly, so feel free to bark back if I answer it wrong. Health and Armor bars could have a bar 'tick' (or do we call these cells?) for each unit of armor/health. This is the basic setup on our material: there is a 'barScale' parameter that will tile/repeat the bar texture (which is always a texture of 1 cell/unit/tick) by whatever the numeric value is. But in the case of Health and Armor, we have pretty large values, so repeating the ticks so much ends up kind of ugly, so we need to set the barStep parameter, which represents the number of numeric units that each texture 'tile' stands for. So if I set the barStep to 2, and the scale is 10, I see 5 cells (when full). Currently on the suits we are dividing their maxAmmo value by a constant scalar value so that they end up having the same number of texture repeats, but we don't have to. In the ammo department we are actually representing them more accurately, but once the ammo count gets high, we start setting the barStep.
Part of me thinks you are asking the health bars of the person you are shooting, though? This could happen--it would have to be part of the targeting info, or the data would at least have to be provided by the same system that grabs the target info data, but we could put it somewhere else.
And the bar colors can be whatever we want--that is just up to the designers.
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:
You guys commented so much about the compass being cool that you've inspired me to make it functional. There are a few ways to go about this. I think the best choice for me is to do it on the shader and apply a texture coordinate offset. Hopefully this works across all maps (sometimes sockets are rotated, but I don't think this would cause a problem)
And the other elements--I can't comment on their purpose at this moment, but I can say that they are functional.
Cat Merc wrote:Question: Since this new method is memory efficient, would this work on DUST and the PS3?
Considering it has 256mb of VRAM, I would assume every little bit counts, and could somewhat improve performance.
Well once we drop the requirement of the renderTarget our HUD texture memory usage will definitely lower than on ps3, but currently we still have some 'hybrid' elements that require a decent sized renderTarget. Best case is down the road we fully 3D-ify and don't need a renderTarget for the HUD at all, worst case is we still need some of it, which means we would need to take our current renderTarget and optimize the memory footprint it uses.
Another concern would be that the 3D HUD was built alongside some graphics tech updates to our Engine, and it may have certain dependencies on them. It is doubtful these updates could go back to the PS3, so if there is a dependency we may have some adjustments to make.
Outside of that, it should be able to work on PS3. |
|
jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 11:34:00 -
[59] - Quote
Oh I have an idea of optimiaing maps for the ps3
Remove some outer map area, like alot, so there is less memkry being taken by something we will never use lol.
I'd better leave...
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2828
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 11:36:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:MC Peanut,
Is it possible to make the health bars more dynamic based on shields vs armor? So that when you are shooting someone you have an idea where their "tank" is?
So for example the armor bar would be red and the shield bar would be blue. Each would be proportional to their total HP. I might not be understanding your question correctly, so feel free to bark back if I answer it wrong. Health and Armor bars could have a bar 'tick' (or do we call these cells?) for each unit of armor/health. This is the basic setup on our material: there is a 'barScale' parameter that will tile/repeat the bar texture (which is always a texture of 1 cell/unit/tick) by whatever the numeric value is. But in the case of Health and Armor, we have pretty large values, so repeating the ticks so much ends up kind of ugly, so we need to set the barStep parameter, which represents the number of numeric units that each texture 'tile' stands for. So if I set the barStep to 2, and the scale is 10, I see 5 cells (when full). Currently on the suits we are dividing their maxAmmo value by a constant scalar value so that they end up having the same number of texture repeats, but we don't have to. In the ammo department we are actually representing them more accurately, but once the ammo count gets high, we start setting the barStep. Part of me thinks you are asking the health bars of the person you are shooting, though? This could happen--it would have to be part of the targeting info, or the data would at least have to be provided by the same system that grabs the target info data, but we could put it somewhere else. And the bar colors can be whatever we want--that is just up to the designers.
Yeah that is what he means, especially now a days in DUST brick tanking is all the rage. You will see caldari's with more armour than my Minmatar has EHP. It would be useful knowing if this is the case, so I can make a more informed descision about the engagement.
Personally I would achieve this by merging Shields and Armour into a single bar for enemies. Light Red for Shields and Dark Red for Armour, so if a gallanteans EHP consists of 20% Shields and 80% it will look something like this.
S S A A A A A A A A
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
|
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 12:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Yeah that is what he means, especially now a days in DUST brick tanking is all the rage. You will see caldari's with more armour than my Minmatar has EHP. It would be useful knowing if this is the case, so I can make a more informed descision about the engagement.
Personally I would achieve this by merging Shields and Armour into a single bar for enemies. Light Red for Shields and Dark Red for Armour, so if a gallanteans EHP consists of 20% Shields and 80% it will look something like this.
S S A A A A A A A A
Ah cool I got it (good explanation!). Also we could likely take the max amount and use them as scalars to drive some other value that helps give some visual indicators to their max without spelling it out (although it could be spelled out if we want, but that's for design). We could play with the unit spacing, intensity, or color.
|
|
843 Epidemic
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
1167
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 12:08:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Yeah that is what he means, especially now a days in DUST brick tanking is all the rage. You will see caldari's with more armour than my Minmatar has EHP. It would be useful knowing if this is the case, so I can make a more informed descision about the engagement.
Personally I would achieve this by merging Shields and Armour into a single bar for enemies. Light Red for Shields and Dark Red for Armour, so if a gallanteans EHP consists of 20% Shields and 80% it will look something like this.
S S A A A A A A A A
Ah cool I got it (good explanation!). Also we could likely take the max amount and use them as scalars to drive some other value that helps give some visual indicators to their max without spelling it out (although it could be spelled out if we want, but that's for design). We could play with the unit spacing, intensity, or color.
You have the BEST CCP name ever.
Brb, sister needs the TV
|
jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 12:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Oh I have an idea of optimizing maps for the ps3
Remove some outer map area, like alot, so there is less memkry being taken by something we will never use lol.
I'd better leave...
|
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
380
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 12:56:00 -
[64] - Quote
League of Legends does health bars well.
Small amount of health:
http://www.eternitygames.org/media/userfiles/images/Articles/LoL/rumeur/health.jpg
Larger amount of health:
http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=114887&d=1361749285
The health bars are the same length but they have a marks every 100hp or something. |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 12:58:00 -
[65] - Quote
I played LoL once
But yea ccp has a perfect way to fix framerate.
I'd better leave...
|
IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
1036
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 14:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:MC Peanut,
Is it possible to make the health bars more dynamic based on shields vs armor? So that when you are shooting someone you have an idea where their "tank" is?
So for example the armor bar would be red and the shield bar would be blue. Each would be proportional to their total HP. I might not be understanding your question correctly, so feel free to bark back if I answer it wrong. Health and Armor bars could have a bar 'tick' (or do we call these cells?) for each unit of armor/health. This is the basic setup on our material: there is a 'barScale' parameter that will tile/repeat the bar texture (which is always a texture of 1 cell/unit/tick) by whatever the numeric value is. But in the case of Health and Armor, we have pretty large values, so repeating the ticks so much ends up kind of ugly, so we need to set the barStep parameter, which represents the number of numeric units that each texture 'tile' stands for. So if I set the barStep to 2, and the scale is 10, I see 5 cells (when full). Currently on the suits we are dividing their maxAmmo value by a constant scalar value so that they end up having the same number of texture repeats, but we don't have to. In the ammo department we are actually representing them more accurately, but once the ammo count gets high, we start setting the barStep. Part of me thinks you are asking the health bars of the person you are shooting, though? This could happen--it would have to be part of the targeting info, or the data would at least have to be provided by the same system that grabs the target info data, but we could put it somewhere else. And the bar colors can be whatever we want--that is just up to the designers.
Yes, sorry I didn't clarify my thought more. It would be more information in a smaller space near your target (therefore more usable). Currently its difficult to know how much armor and shield your target has, especially in proportion to one another without looking down at the bottom of the screen where the target information currently is located.
To clarify, my thoughts were to make the health bars of the object you are shooting at show in different colors depending on how much armor and shield they have. So if you were shooting a Cal heavy it would likely have a larger portion of "shield bar" while a Gal heavy would likely have a large portion of "armor bar"
This would allow for more tactical gameplay, especially for commandos. For example: if you see your opponent has a lot more armor than shield, you would pull out a Rail Rifle instead of an AR.
Lastly, it would be also nice to have a single bar on our own HUD IMO because it takes up less visual space. Having two values and a single circular bar would be more appealing to me as long as the scale is proportional. I always freak out when all my armor disappears visually when I really only have 80. I would be more inclined to take cover if "half my HP is gone" as it would be easier to visually see with a single bar. This would also make it consistent with what enemy health bars look like on the battlefield.
Youtube
|
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Dirt Nap Squad.
2860
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 14:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Yeah that is what he means, especially now a days in DUST brick tanking is all the rage. You will see caldari's with more armour than my Minmatar has EHP. It would be useful knowing if this is the case, so I can make a more informed descision about the engagement.
Personally I would achieve this by merging Shields and Armour into a single bar for enemies. Light Red for Shields and Dark Red for Armour, so if a gallanteans EHP consists of 20% Shields and 80% it will look something like this.
S S A A A A A A A A
Ah cool I got it (good explanation!). Also we could likely take the max amount and use them as scalars to drive some other value that helps give some visual indicators to their max without spelling it out (although it could be spelled out if we want, but that's for design). We could play with the unit spacing, intensity, or color.
I like this idea a lot as well. If maintaining two separate health bars is more a design decision to keep it consistent with EVE that is okay too. If you could divide HP into bar segments over a players head though, that 'at a glance' information would be invaluable.
For example: Let say each BarStep represents 50 health points of either armor or shields (rounding up always)
So if a player has 232 shields and 530 Armor then the bar (over their heads when targeting) could look like:
|SSS||SSS||SSS||SSS||SSS|
|A||A||A||A||A||A||A||A||A||A||A|
Representing 11 armor steps and 5 shield steps to represent 200-250 shields and 500-550 armor. The spacing isn't perfect but I think the point gets across. You probably wont be able count the number of bars at a glance but its a quick visual indicator how much stacked they are in health just by looking at the spaces between bars( the || parts) more than counting the numbers of bars themselves.
This level of information should only be available where you could see numerical values on the tac net overlay currently.
I would also support a system like IgniteableAura is saying where it could be proportional as well.
So if you have 10 BarSteps and the player in that situation would have 762 total ehp. So shields would be 232/762 = 30.4% maximum health and armor would be the remaining 69.6%, then the HP could be rolled into a single health bar which would look like this:
|A||A||A||A||A||A||A||S||S||S| - representing 7 armor bars and 3 shield bars.
In this example, you wouldn't even need BarSteps if you dont want, just proportional colored sections.
|AAAAAAA||SSS| - like so. |
matsumoto yuichi san
SVER True Blood
37
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 14:59:00 -
[68] - Quote
guys has no one played LoL i mean this is a solved problem....
http://www.team-dignitas.org/uploads/tinymce/images/black_shield_mrog.jpg
just saying each tick is 100
and the shield is just a different color appended to the end, so you can see %shield and %armor (in our case) and get a good idea of TOTAL hp, but at the same time isn't giving exact numbers, as it is just exact 100 |
Hawkings Greenback
Red Star.
EoN.
147
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
This thread is a damn good read, plenty of good ideas & some great feedback from MC Peanut & everyone else. Gonna dish out some +1's in a mo as I read back.
Love the idea of racial HUD's as another aspect of immersion. I would like to be able to have customization of the elements contained. I agree that currently some of the info that is displayed feels spread to thin or ( for me ) missing or not displayed as well as it could.
Great stuff
GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥
GÇò Frank Zappa
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2834
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:06:00 -
[70] - Quote
matsumoto yuichi san wrote:guys has no one played LoL i mean this is a solved problem.... http://www.team-dignitas.org/uploads/tinymce/images/black_shield_mrog.jpgjust saying each tick is 100 and the shield is just a different color appended to the end, so you can see %shield and %armor (in our case) and get a good idea of TOTAL hp, but at the same time isn't giving exact numbers, as it is just exact 100
Good idea but there is a problem. Let's say you have a shield tanked caldari.
How do you show that this suit has most of its EHP in shields? Until you engage the exact distrubtion is unknown.
This is the information we want at moments notice, so we can make informed descisions.
Where is their tank?
Is my weapon strong enough to deal with each tank type?
Is this a good engagement?
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
|
|
Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
457
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:matsumoto yuichi san wrote:guys has no one played LoL i mean this is a solved problem.... http://www.team-dignitas.org/uploads/tinymce/images/black_shield_mrog.jpgjust saying each tick is 100 and the shield is just a different color appended to the end, so you can see %shield and %armor (in our case) and get a good idea of TOTAL hp, but at the same time isn't giving exact numbers, as it is just exact 100 Good idea but there is a problem. Let's say you have a shield tanked caldari. How do you show that this suit has most of its EHP in shields? Until you engage the exact distrubtion is unknown. This is the information we want at moments notice, so we can make informed descisions. Where is their tank? Is my weapon strong enough to deal with each tank type? Is this a good engagement?
While I understand wanting this. I think that is where scanners, spotter tool or higher precision modules would shine as they could yield the more granular info.
"Shine bright like a diamond"
|
Mrs Snottpicker
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 23:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
Wow,actual answers and information....? Take note Devs. A little goodwill goes a very long way with this bunch of pasty faced hemorrhoid having shutins...Btw, welcome to the fold McPeanut. |
Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1671
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 00:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Ah cool I got it (good explanation!). Also we could likely take the max amount and use them as scalars to drive some other value that helps give some visual indicators to their max without spelling it out (although it could be spelled out if we want, but that's for design). We could play with the unit spacing, intensity, or color.
I like you.
You get a stamp of approval.
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8519
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 00:50:00 -
[74] - Quote
@CCP MC Peanut
Since you're here, I like to point out something that has gotten me a disoriented (literally) when I was playing Dust.
Every time I spawn in at any location whether it's an uplink, objective, default spawn, or CRU, I get completely disoriented upon spawning in to the point that even with the help of the compass I am momentarily unable to get a sense of direction. I'm serious. For some reason my sense of direction goes the way of the dodo bird during that first moment immediately after spawning. Of course, a moment or two later I regain my sense of direction thanks to the compass and then all is right again.
I don't know if this has anything to do with just biology and maybe this is just me experiencing this and no one else.
In any case, this seems like something that can best be addressed with a subtle visual cue built into the spawn points when I'm in the map overview screen. If an uplink is facing a specific direction, I like to know before I pick that spawn. I don't want to spawn in facing a wall while a redberry has his gun to my back. But the issue with the disorientation comes in when spawning in via the objectives and CRUs where I can spawn in at a random point at a random direction. Am I going to spawn in facing the objective or away from the objective? Am I going to spawn behind that barrier or out in the open?
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
175
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 03:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
There could be a little flashing arrow, white, to show what direction you're pointing....
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
|
matsumoto yuichi san
SVER True Blood
39
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 12:21:00 -
[76] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:matsumoto yuichi san wrote:guys has no one played LoL i mean this is a solved problem.... http://www.team-dignitas.org/uploads/tinymce/images/black_shield_mrog.jpgjust saying each tick is 100 and the shield is just a different color appended to the end, so you can see %shield and %armor (in our case) and get a good idea of TOTAL hp, but at the same time isn't giving exact numbers, as it is just exact 100 Good idea but there is a problem. Let's say you have a shield tanked caldari. How do you show that this suit has most of its EHP in shields? Until you engage the exact distrubtion is unknown. This is the information we want at moments notice, so we can make informed descisions. Where is their tank? Is my weapon strong enough to deal with each tank type? Is this a good engagement?
umm in terms of is most of the hp is shield, then most of the bar would be the shield color, with ticks for the amounts, so not seeing the issue in that regard |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 12:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
The feedback continues to be great.. As awesome as you guys find Dev responses, the feedback you are posting is super stellar (space themed games deserve space themed adjectives).
The shield-armor ideas for the targeting info are absolutely possible. And I much better see your point on the benefit of being able to discern the ratio between Armor and Shield. What do you think is the best way to show the current value of the Armor Shield, but still preserve the ratio relationship? I'm thinking you could either use 4 colors (2 for depleted, 2 for not), or a secondary bar or two underneath--could be thin. Also we could still do it with 2 colors, but layer 2 bars over each other and have the bottom one not update.
COMPASS WORKS
I was inspired by you guys. I know we would have done it sooner or later, but after hearing so many people woot the presence of the compass and not seem to upset that it was non functional, I had to. And it wasn't very hard. I ended up doing it in the shader. I was able to figure out the world space camera vector and then used a custom material node (which is just a place to write hlsl) to convert the vector to an angle range. Then divided this by pi left me with a -1 to 1 value, which I used to drive the U coordinate position of the texture. Also I exposed an offset value so I could go into a map, orient myself north, and plug in numbers to the offset until the compass was correct. Now back to the artist to create a texture for the full 360 view.
Hopefully we can show this off very soon in an actual Dev Blog post.
|
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
120
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 12:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:@CCP MC Peanut
Since you're here, I like to point out something that has gotten me a disoriented (literally) when I was playing Dust.
Every time I spawn in at any location whether it's an uplink, objective, default spawn, or CRU, I get completely disoriented upon spawning in to the point that even with the help of the compass I am momentarily unable to get a sense of direction. I'm serious. For some reason my sense of direction goes the way of the dodo bird during that first moment immediately after spawning. Of course, a moment or two later I regain my sense of direction thanks to the compass and then all is right again.
I don't know if this has anything to do with just biology and maybe this is just me experiencing this and no one else.
In any case, this seems like something that can best be addressed with a subtle visual cue built into the spawn points when I'm in the map overview screen. If an uplink is facing a specific direction, I like to know before I pick that spawn. I don't want to spawn in facing a wall while a redberry has his gun to my back. But the issue with the disorientation comes in when spawning in via the objectives and CRUs where I can spawn in at a random point at a random direction. Am I going to spawn in facing the objective or away from the objective? Am I going to spawn behind that barrier or out in the open?
I'm not sure if they purposely orient the player when spawning or not. My guess is they do, but I can't say for sure. Either way they can orient the player and likewise indicate this somehow on the overview map. If we end up moving the icons on the overview map to the 3D system, I'll keep this in mind.
|
|
Musta Tornius
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1338
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 12:44:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:@CCP MC Peanut
Since you're here, I like to point out something that has gotten me a disoriented (literally) when I was playing Dust.
Every time I spawn in at any location whether it's an uplink, objective, default spawn, or CRU, I get completely disoriented upon spawning in to the point that even with the help of the compass I am momentarily unable to get a sense of direction. I'm serious. For some reason my sense of direction goes the way of the dodo bird during that first moment immediately after spawning. Of course, a moment or two later I regain my sense of direction thanks to the compass and then all is right again.
I don't know if this has anything to do with just biology and maybe this is just me experiencing this and no one else.
In any case, this seems like something that can best be addressed with a subtle visual cue built into the spawn points when I'm in the map overview screen. If an uplink is facing a specific direction, I like to know before I pick that spawn. I don't want to spawn in facing a wall while a redberry has his gun to my back. But the issue with the disorientation comes in when spawning in via the objectives and CRUs where I can spawn in at a random point at a random direction. Am I going to spawn in facing the objective or away from the objective? Am I going to spawn behind that barrier or out in the open? I'm not sure if they purposely orient the player when spawning or not. My guess is they do, but I can't say for sure. Either way they can orient the player and likewise indicate this somehow on the overview map. If we end up moving the icons on the overview map to the 3D system, I'll keep this in mind.
Uplinks always orient the spawning in player towards the direction that the player that placed the uplink was facing.
|
Severus Smith
Caldari State
537
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 13:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:@CCP MC Peanut
Since you're here, I like to point out something that has gotten me a disoriented (literally) when I was playing Dust.
Every time I spawn in at any location whether it's an uplink, objective, default spawn, or CRU, I get completely disoriented upon spawning in to the point that even with the help of the compass I am momentarily unable to get a sense of direction. I'm serious. For some reason my sense of direction goes the way of the dodo bird during that first moment immediately after spawning. Of course, a moment or two later I regain my sense of direction thanks to the compass and then all is right again.
I don't know if this has anything to do with just biology and maybe this is just me experiencing this and no one else.
In any case, this seems like something that can best be addressed with a subtle visual cue built into the spawn points when I'm in the map overview screen. If an uplink is facing a specific direction, I like to know before I pick that spawn. I don't want to spawn in facing a wall while a redberry has his gun to my back. But the issue with the disorientation comes in when spawning in via the objectives and CRUs where I can spawn in at a random point at a random direction. Am I going to spawn in facing the objective or away from the objective? Am I going to spawn behind that barrier or out in the open? I'm not sure if they purposely orient the player when spawning or not. My guess is they do, but I can't say for sure. Either way they can orient the player and likewise indicate this somehow on the overview map. If we end up moving the icons on the overview map to the 3D system, I'll keep this in mind. I know this isn't a UI thing but I want to mention it anyway. I hope that y'all do away with the current spawn system and replace it with something more exciting. It's pretty disorienting (as Maken pointed out) and immersion breaking to just appear invisible next to something (or for enemies to suddenly appear out of thin air next to me). It would be so much more fun to spawn in via more realistic / exciting methods. I love spawning in PS2 (falling from the sky) and Titanfall (deploying via dropship). Both of those help me feel pumped before I jump back into the firefight. So for Legion; when I hit respawn it would be awesome to wake up in a CRU and have it open, or for me to deploy in via an NPC dropship, or to drop in from the sky and use my inertial dampeners.
Again, I know it's not a UI thing - but it would be awesome. |
|
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
2626
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 14:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
DaYuM!
Good stuff Peanut!!
Can I please have some duct tape in my minmatar HUD?!
This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
|
VicBoss
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
448
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 14:55:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:
COMPASS WORKS
I was inspired by you guys. I know we would have done it sooner or later, but after hearing so many people woot the presence of the compass and not seem to upset that it was non functional, I had to. And it wasn't very hard. I ended up doing it in the shader. I was able to figure out the world space camera vector and then used a custom material node (which is just a place to write hlsl) to convert the vector to an angle range. Then divided this by pi left me with a -1 to 1 value, which I used to drive the U coordinate position of the texture. Also I exposed an offset value so I could go into a map, orient myself north, and plug in numbers to the offset until the compass was correct. Now back to the artist to create a texture for the full 360 view.
Hopefully we can show this off very soon in an actual Dev Blog post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZEtVbJT5c AHHHHHHHH FINALLY!!!!!!  I have tears of JOY! You have no idea how helpful a working compass Hud like that will aid in directional communication and targeting! I am a little overwhelmed and slightly expect to wake up from a dream at the moment. I mean, like what could be next? Gridded maps? The possibilities are endless!
|
|
CCP Saberwing
C C P
C C P Alliance
4533
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 15:01:00 -
[83] - Quote
The interaction in this thread makes me happy <-- Those are tears of joy.
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
|
|
IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
1047
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 15:34:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:The feedback continues to be great.. As awesome as you guys find Dev responses, the feedback you are posting is even more stellar (space themed games deserve space themed adjectives).
The shield-armor ideas for the targeting info are absolutely possible. And I much better see your point on the benefit of being able too discern the ratio between Armor and Shield. What do you think is the best way to show the current value of the Armor Shield, but still preserve the ratio relationship? I'm thinking you could either use 4 colors (2 for depleted, 2 for not), or a secondary bar or two underneath--could be thin. Also we could still do it with 2 colors, but layer 2 bars over each other and have the bottom one not update (as the above disappear when depleting)
COMPASS WORKS
I was inspired by you guys. I know we would have done it sooner or later, but after hearing so many people woot the presence of the compass and not seem to upset that it was non functional, I had to. And it wasn't very hard. I ended up doing it in the shader. I was able to figure out the world space camera vector and then used a custom material node (which is just a place to write hlsl) to convert the vector to an angle range. Then divided this by pi left me with a -1 to 1 value, which I used to drive the U coordinate position of the texture. Also I exposed an offset value so I could go into a map, orient myself north, and plug in numbers to the offset until the compass was correct. Now back to the artist to create a texture for the full 360 view.
Hopefully we can show this off very soon in an actual Dev Blog post.
Working compass Very nice. That truly is a feature that we have been looking forward to, so we are most appreciative that it seems to be working. I look forward to its debut via dev blog. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you
As far as shield-armor ideas, I would imagine a single bar with four different colors would give a good representation of total health. But I think it should be consistent with what is in our own HUDs. So whatever functions and looks the most "pretty". For giving absolute numbers, I am unsure what would work best. I will need to think on that. But the current idea of segments equating to 50hp each is a good start. I enjoy that currently Dust gives us specific details (531 shield, 243 armor) but it could work to give us estimations in the bar form. Depending on peoples shield/armor amounts I can tell what mods they are probably running, so having exact numbers can help. How to elegantly display that information....is for those more creative than I.
Secondly, you got me wishing the HUD could express everything involved in the current "spreadsheet" at the bottom of the HUD when we are targeting something. It would definitely create more immersion. Perhaps there could be a thin white line that signifies our "weapon efficiency" as well.
Lastly, just a random thought, but I think it would be REAAALY cool if our HUD would break/crack when we take some armor damage (% based) and then "repair" when we get armor reps. Fluxes could also cause a little distortion to our HUD.
Youtube
|
Hawk-eye Occultus
ARKOMBlNE
194
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 15:49:00 -
[85] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:[...] Secondly, you got me wishing the HUD could express everything involved in the current "spreadsheet" at the bottom of the HUD when we are targeting something. It would definitely create more immersion. Perhaps there could be a thin white line that signifies our "weapon efficiency" as well. [...]
I was thinking that perhaps a little halo lights up around the targeting reticule to display an "at a glance" indication in addition to the spreadsheet in the corner.
It'd be like:
Green for damage bonus > than X% (SUPER EFFECTIVE)
Doesn't show up if within -¦10% of base damage.
Orange/red for damage penalty > than Y% (Meh...)
Shofixti beats an Ur-Quan Dreadnought and a Kor-Ah Marauder.
|
Ace Starburst
Tom Cruise Thetan Army
100
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 16:10:00 -
[86] - Quote
Throwing out a few ideas here that are user interface related.
1. Modules that affect display visualization, such as sonar, x-ray, infrared. Could even have new module slots on the helmet with scouts having the most and heavies/assaults having the least. Possibility of separate types of visual dampeners on low slots. Destructible lights and dark corridors could open up new and interesting strategic possibilities. I can see this one taking quite a bit of work to get right though.
2. Equipment that temporarily disables HUD. (Flux grenades maybe?)
3. Ability to switch to squad mate's vision. Would help in designating targets.
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8531
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 17:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Lastly, just a random thought, but I think it would be REAAALY cool if our HUD would break/crack when we take some armor damage (% based) and then "repair" when we get armor reps. Fluxes could also cause a little distortion to our HUD.
That would actually be cool especially the Flux affecting the HUD in some way. Depending on the tier of the flux, the HUD would either suffer minor static or end up going completely bonkers to the point of temporarily shutting down until the effects of the EM wear off.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8531
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 17:05:00 -
[88] - Quote
Ace Starburst wrote:3. Ability to switch to squad mate's vision. Would help in designating targets.
That could actually be a helpful training tool for instructors in the Learning Coalition and Ivy League Alliance so that they can see directly what the trainee did right or wrong and how to improve. This could also enhance the scout role on the actual battlefield.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
Legio DXIV
1231
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 17:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
We definitely need an indicator that says how many (if any) OBs are available.
Check corp tag.
|
VicBoss
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
450
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 17:57:00 -
[90] - Quote
The idea for fluxes to damage/ destroy HUD would be awesome, that would also open up the possibility of new grenades/equipment that would disrupt the hud in some way, or remove certain aspects of hud (like no more overheat meter, map etc.). That would be awesome.
|
|
|
Ender Storm
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
117
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 19:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ace Starburst wrote:Throwing out a few ideas here that are user interface related.
1. Modules that affect display visualization, such as sonar, x-ray, infrared. Could even have new module slots on the helmet with scouts having the most and heavies/assaults having the least. Possibility of separate types of visual dampeners on low slots. Destructible lights and dark corridors could open up new and interesting strategic possibilities. I can see this one taking quite a bit of work to get right though.
2. Equipment that temporarily disables HUD. (Flux grenades maybe?)
3. Ability to switch to squad mate's vision. Would help in designating targets.
I like the idea of having the hability of using multiple display configurations, was thinking about it as well.
Something like the Predator movies :)
You could indeed have helmet specific slots to plug in personalized filters. They might take up CPU and thus affect what you can equip into your gear.
There could be thermal displays,l normal view, electromagnetic, etc.
These different modes could be disrupted, maybe thru grenades or active modules on the suits or even deployables or dropship modules making the drop ship act like a ECM dropship (or even ECCM).
This would indeed add more flavour to customization.
|
Ace Starburst
Tom Cruise Thetan Army
103
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 20:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
Ender Storm wrote:
I like the idea of having the hability of using multiple display configurations, was thinking about it as well.
Something like the Predator movies :)
You could indeed have helmet specific slots to plug in personalized filters. They might take up CPU and thus affect what you can equip into your gear.
There could be thermal displays,l normal view, electromagnetic, etc.
These different modes could be disrupted, maybe thru grenades or active modules on the suits or even deployables or dropship modules making the drop ship act like a ECM dropship (or even ECCM).
This would indeed add more flavour to customization.
It would be pretty slick. The main issue as far as I can tell from a design point is there would have to be a use for those separate displays, and this would necessitate having a variety of situations such as darkness/night(use infrared), or excessive fog/dust/brightness(use sonar), or you want to see through walls to find the enemy(use x-ray), etc.
|
Hawk-eye Occultus
ARKOMBlNE
196
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
Ace Starburst wrote:Ender Storm wrote:
I like the idea of having the hability of using multiple display configurations, was thinking about it as well.
Something like the Predator movies :)
You could indeed have helmet specific slots to plug in personalized filters. They might take up CPU and thus affect what you can equip into your gear.
There could be thermal displays,l normal view, electromagnetic, etc.
These different modes could be disrupted, maybe thru grenades or active modules on the suits or even deployables or dropship modules making the drop ship act like a ECM dropship (or even ECCM).
This would indeed add more flavour to customization.
It would be pretty slick. The main issue as far as I can tell from a design point is there would have to be a use for those separate displays, and this would necessitate having a variety of situations such as darkness/night(use infrared), or excessive fog/dust/brightness(use sonar), or you want to see through walls to find the enemy(use x-ray), etc.
SCIENCE TIME!
Infra-red would work in fog*, dust, and brightness^.
Sonar would not work in a dust storm, it would work in the dark though.
"X-Ray Vision". We already have the active scanner; that red chevron is all we need.
* Light-medium fog.
^ Assuming the use of thermal optics rather than image intensifiers.
Shofixti beats an Ur-Quan Dreadnought and a Kor-Ah Marauder.
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2842
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 23:29:00 -
[94] - Quote
Hawk-eye Occultus wrote:Ace Starburst wrote:Ender Storm wrote:
I like the idea of having the hability of using multiple display configurations, was thinking about it as well.
Something like the Predator movies :)
You could indeed have helmet specific slots to plug in personalized filters. They might take up CPU and thus affect what you can equip into your gear.
There could be thermal displays,l normal view, electromagnetic, etc.
These different modes could be disrupted, maybe thru grenades or active modules on the suits or even deployables or dropship modules making the drop ship act like a ECM dropship (or even ECCM).
This would indeed add more flavour to customization.
It would be pretty slick. The main issue as far as I can tell from a design point is there would have to be a use for those separate displays, and this would necessitate having a variety of situations such as darkness/night(use infrared), or excessive fog/dust/brightness(use sonar), or you want to see through walls to find the enemy(use x-ray), etc. SCIENCE TIME! Infra-red would work in fog*, dust, and brightness^. Sonar would not work in a dust storm, it would work in the dark though. "X-Ray Vision". We already have the active scanner; that red chevron is all we need. * Light-medium fog.
^ Assuming the use of thermal optics rather than image intensifiers.
I think instead of these kind of things being customizable, we just have them react to the enviroment.
So say your on a Thermonically Active Planet, there is soot and particulates everywhere, your DOF is limited to say 20m, your suits systems reacts and you get a pulsed grid overlay, that outlines buildings/terrain and enemies that would normally be in your FOV .
Say your on a Desolate Jilted Planet, so there is no star close enough to provide light, you are in pitch black, your suit systems react by giving you a IR night vision, however this can be as much a blessing as it is a curse since, flare effects such as Mass Drivers, Muzzel Flashes, Turret fire can potentially blind you.
Say you are on a Close Proximity Exo-planet, the sun is so bright it will burn your eyes, your suit reacts by turning down the brightness on your helmet feed, however walking in and out of buildings require time for the brigtness to readjust
Then add a few little touches to make it more immersive
Ice on the edges of your visor
Overly defined pixels after a flux, or blinding grenade
Cracks during armour damage
Having the HUD physically load in the first time you spawn
Having the HUD react to clone failure (some flashing red text center screen)
that kinda thing.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Ender Storm
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
118
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 23:44:00 -
[95] - Quote
Ace Starburst wrote:Ender Storm wrote:
I like the idea of having the hability of using multiple display configurations, was thinking about it as well.
Something like the Predator movies :)
You could indeed have helmet specific slots to plug in personalized filters. They might take up CPU and thus affect what you can equip into your gear.
There could be thermal displays,l normal view, electromagnetic, etc.
These different modes could be disrupted, maybe thru grenades or active modules on the suits or even deployables or dropship modules making the drop ship act like a ECM dropship (or even ECCM).
This would indeed add more flavour to customization.
It would be pretty slick. The main issue as far as I can tell from a design point is there would have to be a use for those separate displays, and this would necessitate having a variety of situations such as darkness/night(use infrared), or excessive fog/dust/brightness(use sonar), or you want to see through walls to find the enemy(use x-ray), etc.
Yeah, what I think is that it would be similar to the function of a scope on a rifle, where you have different scopes / markers / colours / magnifications.
But that taken in the HUD, some people might want to turn on a thermal view and like to play like that, or ultraviolet. It could be very useful for certain roles, like Snipers, or for assault players in dark or interior environments.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
139
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:14:00 -
[96] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
I think instead of these kind of things being customizable, we just have them react to the enviroment.
So say your on a Thermonically Active Planet, there is soot and particulates everywhere, your DOF is limited to say 20m, your suits systems reacts and you get a pulsed grid overlay, that outlines buildings/terrain and enemies that would normally be in your FOV .
Say your on a Desolate Jilted Planet, so there is no star close enough to provide light, you are in pitch black, your suit systems react by giving you a IR night vision, however this can be as much a blessing as it is a curse since, flare effects such as Mass Drivers, Muzzel Flashes, Turret fire can potentially blind you.
Say you are on a Close Proximity Exo-planet, the sun is so bright it will burn your eyes, your suit reacts by turning down the brightness on your helmet feed, however walking in and out of buildings require time for the brigtness to readjust
Then add a few little touches to make it more immersive
Ice on the edges of your visor
Overly defined pixels after a flux, or blinding grenade
Cracks during armour damage
Having the HUD physically load in the first time you spawn
Having the HUD react to clone failure (some flashing red text center screen)
that kinda thing.
Excellent points and outstanding dialogue. Again, the decision on doing this is not mine to make, but the artist in me would find these very fun to figure out and work on. Of course, that in itself isn't reason enough to do them. Designers would have to carefully consider the balance and affects to a player's gameplay.
But possibly speaking, absolutely. I can think of a couple ways to accomplish these 'view modes'. One would be to replace all objects in the scene with another material type--xray, infra, ultra, etc. But a shader alone could be complicated to be accurate. For example, infravision should show heat, but we don't track this information on a per pixel level. We *could* create a different texture map to represent the surface heat of objects, but that seems like it could be expensive. Also we *could* tag vertex colors with a value to represent this, but this would be a fair workload to go back and tag everything. There may be an easier, but less accurate way, which would be to just guess based on some material information, such as the specular power (tells you how much light is bounced off rather than absorbed), emissive value, and the light intensity affecting it. This would probably get you something pretty accurate for things that don't generate their own heat and only absorb from the environment. But yea, having diagnosed this I'd say it could turn into a fair amount of work, and that was just infra-vision.
Cracks and pixels overlay could happen, and we can be flexible how they happen. If we want we could put a 'visor' model in the scene and put the cracks on it, so we can control the depth that the happen at. Maybe some HUD elements are holographic projections and others are part of a screen--this would give us that control. Also we can separate the effect based on armor or shield damage. The challenge will be balancing the variation in effects and dealing with overlapping effects. I imagine there will be some limitation that requires us to group effects and only be able to display one from each group at a time.
|
|
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2247
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:46:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
I think instead of these kind of things being customizable, we just have them react to the enviroment.
So say your on a Thermonically Active Planet, there is soot and particulates everywhere, your DOF is limited to say 20m, your suits systems reacts and you get a pulsed grid overlay, that outlines buildings/terrain and enemies that would normally be in your FOV .
Say your on a Desolate Jilted Planet, so there is no star close enough to provide light, you are in pitch black, your suit systems react by giving you a IR night vision, however this can be as much a blessing as it is a curse since, flare effects such as Mass Drivers, Muzzel Flashes, Turret fire can potentially blind you.
Say you are on a Close Proximity Exo-planet, the sun is so bright it will burn your eyes, your suit reacts by turning down the brightness on your helmet feed, however walking in and out of buildings require time for the brigtness to readjust
Then add a few little touches to make it more immersive
Ice on the edges of your visor
Overly defined pixels after a flux, or blinding grenade
Cracks during armour damage
Having the HUD physically load in the first time you spawn
Having the HUD react to clone failure (some flashing red text center screen)
that kinda thing.
Excellent points and outstanding dialogue. Again, the decision on doing this is not mine to make, but the artist in me would find these very fun to figure out and work on. Of course, that in itself isn't reason enough to do them. Designers would have to carefully consider the balance and affects to a player's gameplay. But possibly speaking, absolutely. I can think of a couple ways to accomplish these 'view modes'. One would be to replace all objects in the scene with another material type--xray, infra, ultra, etc. But a shader alone could be complicated to be accurate. For example, infravision should show heat, but we don't track this information on a per pixel level. We *could* create a different texture map to represent the surface heat of objects, but that seems like it could be expensive. Also we *could* tag vertex colors with a value to represent this, but this would be a fair workload to go back and tag everything. There may be an easier, but less accurate way, which would be to just guess based on some material information, such as the specular power (tells you how much light is bounced off rather than absorbed), emissive value, and the light intensity affecting it. This would probably get you something pretty accurate for things that don't generate their own heat and only absorb from the environment. But yea, having diagnosed this I'd say it could turn into a fair amount of work, and that was just infra-vision. Cracks and pixels overlay could happen, and we can be flexible how they happen. If we want we could put a 'visor' model in the scene and put the cracks on it, so we can control the depth that the happen at. Maybe some HUD elements are holographic projections and others are part of a screen--this would give us that control. Also we can separate the effect based on armor or shield damage. The challenge will be balancing the variation in effects and dealing with overlapping effects. I imagine there will be some limitation that requires us to group effects and only be able to display one from each group at a time.
your name.... so many lulz
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
|
Jackal OfxThe Kilrathi
Myrmidon Syndicate
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 04:56:00 -
[98] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:DaYuM!
Good stuff Peanut!!
Can I please have some duct tape in my minmatar HUD?!
Instead of injectors minma logis should use duct tape to put clones back together.
Where are my flash bang grenades?
|
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 05:07:00 -
[99] - Quote
Hey CCP MC Peanut, I have a few questions about vehicles, and especially dropships.
Is there a possibility of,
A. Getting a pitch/roll meter when in a dropship?
B. Dropships in general but especially assault dropships need to point at a much lower angle when *scooped*. The current zoom feature does very little good, sense you are forced to pitch down to shoot anything low than you in that view mode, and because pitching forward causes you to move forward, you get a pretty small window of opportunity.
D. A speedometer across the board for vehicles would be really nice. |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
153
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:40:00 -
[100] - Quote
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:Hey CCP MC Peanut, I have a few questions about vehicles, and especially dropships.
Is there a possibility of,
A. Getting a pitch/roll meter when in a dropship?
B. Dropships in general but especially assault dropships need to point at a much lower angle when *scooped*. The current zoom feature does very little good, sense you are forced to pitch down to shoot anything low than you in that view mode, and because pitching forward causes you to move forward, you get a pretty small window of opportunity.
D. A speedometer across the board for vehicles would be really nice.
A. Getting a pitch/roll meter when in a dropship?
Absolutely possible. To do this we would expose the pitch and roll values to kismet. There are a few ways to represent this visually, and probably it make less sense to use the bar material, but we could have some sort of gauge with a dial or us a rolley ball thingy (I'm sure there is a more scientific name). This probably means we would need to represent it with a 3D Skeletal Mesh and dynamically position it based on numerical inputs. Driving Mesh animations with dynamic values (as opposed to material) is not something we've fully scoped out yet, but I think we could do it using animation trees and blending between end point 'poses'. In the case of a dial the poses would be a single keyframe animation for the max and the min values (and the blend an 0 to 1 value that finds the exact value).
B. Dropship pointing
I don't have a lot of familiarity with the inner workings of vehicles. Maybe another dev can jump in? But I'd wager this is something that is tune-able.
C. What. no C?
D. Speedometer
We could do a dial or digital speedometer (or a bar). This would require getting a speed value change in kismet. This would be something that may have a performance issue because velocity could change very often. If it was a problem we could set the events to minimum delay time between successive fires (this is built into Unreal), but we would have to make sure it is not jerky--probably not, but it may be something that forces our hand to choose a Digital display over a Dial.
|
|
|
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2844
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:48:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
I think instead of these kind of things being customizable, we just have them react to the enviroment.
So say your on a Thermonically Active Planet, there is soot and particulates everywhere, your DOF is limited to say 20m, your suits systems reacts and you get a pulsed grid overlay, that outlines buildings/terrain and enemies that would normally be in your FOV .
Say your on a Desolate Jilted Planet, so there is no star close enough to provide light, you are in pitch black, your suit systems react by giving you a IR night vision, however this can be as much a blessing as it is a curse since, flare effects such as Mass Drivers, Muzzel Flashes, Turret fire can potentially blind you.
Say you are on a Close Proximity Exo-planet, the sun is so bright it will burn your eyes, your suit reacts by turning down the brightness on your helmet feed, however walking in and out of buildings require time for the brigtness to readjust
Then add a few little touches to make it more immersive
Ice on the edges of your visor
Overly defined pixels after a flux, or blinding grenade
Cracks during armour damage
Having the HUD physically load in the first time you spawn
Having the HUD react to clone failure (some flashing red text center screen)
that kinda thing.
Excellent points and outstanding dialogue. Again, the decision on doing this is not mine to make, but the artist in me would find these very fun to figure out and work on. Of course, that in itself isn't reason enough to do them. Designers would have to carefully consider the balance and affects to a player's gameplay. But possibly speaking, absolutely. I can think of a couple ways to accomplish these 'view modes'. One would be to replace all objects in the scene with another material type--xray, infra, ultra, etc. But a shader alone could be complicated to be accurate. For example, infravision should show heat, but we don't track this information on a per pixel level. We *could* create a different texture map to represent the surface heat of objects, but that seems like it could be expensive. Also we *could* tag vertex colors with a value to represent this, but this would be a fair workload to go back and tag everything. There may be an easier, but less accurate way, which would be to just guess based on some material information, such as the specular power (tells you how much light is bounced off rather than absorbed), emissive value, and the light intensity affecting it. This would probably get you something pretty accurate for things that don't generate their own heat and only absorb from the environment. But yea, having diagnosed this I'd say it could turn into a fair amount of work, and that was just infra-vision. Cracks and pixels overlay could happen, and we can be flexible how they happen. If we want we could put a 'visor' model in the scene and put the cracks on it, so we can control the depth that the happen at. Maybe some HUD elements are holographic projections and others are part of a screen--this would give us that control. Also we can separate the effect based on armor or shield damage. The challenge will be balancing the variation in effects and dealing with overlapping effects. I imagine there will be some limitation that requires us to group effects and only be able to display one from each group at a time.
Would it be possible to cheat?
Instead of being absolute black, make it dark enough the human eye can't discern shapes or colours, then invert the brightness like a negative image, then make interactable objects, like infantry, vehicles and equipment emit/fluoresce a darkness/black light, even to a lesser degree instalations could do the same.
Im not sure how well this would work, but it be alot simpler than adding in whole new , material textures.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
160
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:59:00 -
[102] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
I think instead of these kind of things being customizable, we just have them react to the enviroment.
So say your on a Thermonically Active Planet, there is soot and particulates everywhere, your DOF is limited to say 20m, your suits systems reacts and you get a pulsed grid overlay, that outlines buildings/terrain and enemies that would normally be in your FOV .
Say your on a Desolate Jilted Planet, so there is no star close enough to provide light, you are in pitch black, your suit systems react by giving you a IR night vision, however this can be as much a blessing as it is a curse since, flare effects such as Mass Drivers, Muzzel Flashes, Turret fire can potentially blind you.
Say you are on a Close Proximity Exo-planet, the sun is so bright it will burn your eyes, your suit reacts by turning down the brightness on your helmet feed, however walking in and out of buildings require time for the brigtness to readjust
Then add a few little touches to make it more immersive
Ice on the edges of your visor
Overly defined pixels after a flux, or blinding grenade
Cracks during armour damage
Having the HUD physically load in the first time you spawn
Having the HUD react to clone failure (some flashing red text center screen)
that kinda thing.
Excellent points and outstanding dialogue. Again, the decision on doing this is not mine to make, but the artist in me would find these very fun to figure out and work on. Of course, that in itself isn't reason enough to do them. Designers would have to carefully consider the balance and affects to a player's gameplay. But possibly speaking, absolutely. I can think of a couple ways to accomplish these 'view modes'. One would be to replace all objects in the scene with another material type--xray, infra, ultra, etc. But a shader alone could be complicated to be accurate. For example, infravision should show heat, but we don't track this information on a per pixel level. We *could* create a different texture map to represent the surface heat of objects, but that seems like it could be expensive. Also we *could* tag vertex colors with a value to represent this, but this would be a fair workload to go back and tag everything. There may be an easier, but less accurate way, which would be to just guess based on some material information, such as the specular power (tells you how much light is bounced off rather than absorbed), emissive value, and the light intensity affecting it. This would probably get you something pretty accurate for things that don't generate their own heat and only absorb from the environment. But yea, having diagnosed this I'd say it could turn into a fair amount of work, and that was just infra-vision. Cracks and pixels overlay could happen, and we can be flexible how they happen. If we want we could put a 'visor' model in the scene and put the cracks on it, so we can control the depth that the happen at. Maybe some HUD elements are holographic projections and others are part of a screen--this would give us that control. Also we can separate the effect based on armor or shield damage. The challenge will be balancing the variation in effects and dealing with overlapping effects. I imagine there will be some limitation that requires us to group effects and only be able to display one from each group at a time. Would it be possible to cheat? Instead of being absolute black, make it dark enough the human eye can't discern shapes or colours, then invert the brightness like a negative image, then make interactable objects, like infantry, vehicles and equipment emit/fluoresce a darkness/black light, even to a lesser degree instalations could do the same. Im not sure how well this would work, but it be alot simpler than adding in whole new , material textures.
It is definitely something we would spend some time playtime with/prototyping. And creating new materials isn't a terribly big deal. Replacing all objects in a scene with new materials could be. Also we have a way to assign these materials ahead of time and have them 'on deck'. If we don't assign new materials we would have to build in the behavior into all the existing materials (which won't all share the same root material )to give us the same result. But, depending on the complexity of the 'operation', this could be acceptable.
|
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3386
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:00:00 -
[103] - Quote
I don't know if someone has already mentioned this before, but I wanted to adress a MAJOR design issue with the HUD that I feel not many players really mention or even care about.
One of the coolest things about the Dust 514 HUD is TacNet. I absolutely love how much of the gameplay is scanning, hiding from scans, and e-war in general. One of my favorite things is the detailed information given when you look at another player.
However, its placement and complexity makes it very hard to use mid-battle, expecially on HD screens where the information is smaller, and a larger precentage away from a player's reticle.
For example, try looking up at the top of my post and focusing your eyes there while trying to read the text down here. It's impossible. Now try focusing your eyes here and try reading the above line. Much easier isn't is?
But we don't want to see a blob of text over our reticle...that doesn't help anything. Instead, symbols and colors are the best ways for a person to associate meaning. This is on the same page with the shields/armor thing that was mentioned earlier.
There are two things that should be taken from the current tacnet readout at the bottom of the screen and shown as info next to/on top of the health bar:
-Weapon Efficiency (how effective your weapon is against the current shields/armor of the opponent as represented by a green positive percentage or a red negative percentage).
-Meta Level compared to yours (a circle, triangle, or X should be listed to represent whether the opponent has a lower, similar, or higher meta level...this is currently how items are marked in Dust 514)
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Second thing
As a Logistics player, tacnet hates me.
We are restricted to a 40m view distance for all of our triage abilities. For example, the revive icon only displays when I am within that 40m circle around the player. My suggestion for the ability to see player health bars when you use a repair tool (yes, I actually came up with an idea that made it into the game lol), is also limited to a 40 meter range.
Obviously this is a game design issue, but my real problem is that I can't see where the heavies are (and which of them need reps/revives). This could be solved with some sort of icon similar to the revive icon for when a player is at a certain percentage of their armor (say 50% or lower) that would show me the direction of a player in need of logistics support. Ammo icons when players are less than 20% of supply would be great too. Again I know, game design issue so....
Currently in Dust you can look at the minimap and see chevrons instead of dots. These represent the new suits that were introduced into the game, but they help a TON when running with Gallente heavies as the heavies then show up on radar as a easy to distinguish chevron instead of a dot.
If every role (assault, logistics, sentinel, scout) had a different symbol both on on tacnet and the radar, this would improve gameplay even further. (However as a balancing issue I would recommend that you only allow friendlies to be able to see this info, and the enemy to only see red dots/chevrons of the same type).
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Okay last thing, and it's really simple.
I should be able to see a squad member's name above their head no matter if they are 5 meters or 500 meters away from me.
Oh, and please watch this video if you would like to see some examples of a few of these points as how they might be presented in-game (footage is from a game called Resistance 2).
This game does a great job of making sure that you know exactly which players are where, who needs what, all without cluttering up the game screen even when there are 8 players all in one location.
http://youtu.be/Ta5PR1-UstM
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
162
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:08:00 -
[104] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Would it be possible to cheat?
Instead of being absolute black, make it dark enough the human eye can't discern shapes or colours, then invert the brightness like a negative image, then make interactable objects, like infantry, vehicles and equipment emit/fluoresce a darkness/black light, even to a lesser degree instalations could do the same.
Im not sure how well this would work, but it be alot simpler than adding in whole new , material textures.
I realize I didn't respond very well to your question. I will try again.
By cheat, yes--we could do something in the post process chain. Here we can take the entire rendered image and do material effects to it, as if whatever you are seeing is being frozen into a single frame texture. This is cool, but it will pose one issue: the HUD, which we brilliantly moved into 3D, would be part of this frozen texture--we wouldn't want that. There are ways to separate the HUD out, since it is rendered in a different pass (I don't know exactly, but I'm pretty sure it's do-able). So still, this could be a way to go. Typically this is the place to add tinting, contrast, or other image filters. We aren't generally a huge fan of the post process, because it can become costly--and we just prefer doing things in 3D, there are certain situations where it is a good choice. |
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2844
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 14:16:00 -
[105] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I don't know if someone has already mentioned this before, but I wanted to adress a MAJOR design issue with the HUD that I feel not many players really mention or even care about. One of the coolest things about the Dust 514 HUD is TacNet. I absolutely love how much of the gameplay is scanning, hiding from scans, and e-war in general. One of my favorite things is the detailed information given when you look at another player. However, its placement and complexity makes it very hard to use mid-battle, expecially on HD screens where the information is smaller, and a larger precentage away from a player's reticle. For example, try looking up at the top of my post and focusing your eyes there while trying to read the text down here. It's impossible. Now try focusing your eyes here and try reading the above line. Much easier isn't is? But we don't want to see a blob of text over our reticle...that doesn't help anything. Instead, symbols and colors are the best ways for a person to associate meaning. This is on the same page with the shields/armor thing that was mentioned earlier. There are two things that should be taken from the current tacnet readout at the bottom of the screen and shown as info next to/on top of the health bar: -Weapon Efficiency (how effective your weapon is against the current shields/armor of the opponent as represented by a green positive percentage or a red negative percentage). -Meta Level compared to yours (a circle, triangle, or X should be listed to represent whether the opponent has a lower, similar, or higher meta level...this is currently how items are marked in Dust 514) ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Second thing As a Logistics player, tacnet hates me. We are restricted to a 40m view distance for all of our triage abilities. For example, the revive icon only displays when I am within that 40m circle around the player. My suggestion for the ability to see player health bars when you use a repair tool (yes, I actually came up with an idea that made it into the game lol), is also limited to a 40 meter range. Obviously this is a game design issue, but my real problem is that I can't see where the heavies are (and which of them need reps/revives). This could be solved with some sort of icon similar to the revive icon for when a player is at a certain percentage of their armor (say 50% or lower) that would show me the direction of a player in need of logistics support. Ammo icons when players are less than 20% of supply would be great too. Again I know, game design issue so.... Currently in Dust you can look at the minimap and see chevrons instead of dots. These represent the new suits that were introduced into the game, but they help a TON when running with Gallente heavies as the heavies then show up on radar as a easy to distinguish chevron instead of a dot. If every role (assault, logistics, sentinel, scout) had a different symbol both on on tacnet and the radar, this would improve gameplay even further. (However as a balancing issue I would recommend that you only allow friendlies to be able to see this info, and the enemy to only see red dots/chevrons of the same type). ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Okay last thing, and it's really simple. I should be able to see a squad member's name above their head no matter if they are 5 meters or 500 meters away from me. Oh, and please watch this video if you would like to see some examples of a few of these points as how they might be presented in-game (footage is from a game called Resistance 2). This game does a great job of making sure that you know exactly which players are where, who needs what, all without cluttering up the game screen even when there are 8 players all in one location. http://youtu.be/Ta5PR1-UstM?t=5m6sI skipped it to 5:06, that's where the actual gameplay begins
I like this as well prehaps layout so you have.
|Player Name - This would likely take up entire top row in game|
|Suit Size Tag|Profile Indicator|Health Bar|Assistance Indicator|
Suit Size:
GÇó = Light Suit
^ = Assault/Medium Suit
|| = Logistics Suit
Gûá = Heavy Suit
Profile Indicator:
Green Square = Positive Damage Profile
Red Square = Negative Damage Profile
Assistance Indicator
+ = Low Health
\\\ = Low Ammo (make them look like bullets)
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 17:40:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:Hey CCP MC Peanut, I have a few questions about vehicles, and especially dropships.
Is there a possibility of,
A. Getting a pitch/roll meter when in a dropship?
B. Dropships in general but especially assault dropships need to point at a much lower angle when *scooped*. The current zoom feature does very little good, sense you are forced to pitch down to shoot anything low than you in that view mode, and because pitching forward causes you to move forward, you get a pretty small window of opportunity.
D. A speedometer across the board for vehicles would be really nice. A. Getting a pitch/roll meter when in a dropship?Absolutely possible. To do this we would expose the pitch and roll values to kismet. There are a few ways to represent this visually, and probably it make less sense to use the bar material, but we could have some sort of gauge with a dial or us a rolley ball thingy (I'm sure there is a more scientific name). This probably means we would need to represent it with a 3D Skeletal Mesh and dynamically position it based on numerical inputs. Driving Mesh animations with dynamic values (as opposed to material) is not something we've fully scoped out yet, but I think we could do it using animation trees and blending between end point 'poses'. In the case of a dial the poses would be a single keyframe animation for the max and the min values (and the blend an 0 to 1 value that finds the exact value). B. Dropship pointingI don't have a lot of familiarity with the inner workings of vehicles. Maybe another dev can jump in? But I'd wager this is something that is tune-able. C. What. no C?D. SpeedometerWe could do a dial or digital speedometer (or a bar). This would require getting a speed value change in kismet. This would be something that may have a performance issue because velocity could change very often. If it was a problem we could set the events to minimum delay time between successive fires (this is built into Unreal), but we would have to make sure it is not jerky--probably not, but it may be something that forces our hand to choose a Digital display over a Dial.
Oh, right. I must have missed C. Here you go,
C. Can we get a reticle like the one on the missile launcher for the rail gun and blaster? |
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 18:34:00 -
[107] - Quote
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:Hey CCP MC Peanut, I have a few questions about vehicles, and especially dropships.
Is there a possibility of,
A. Getting a pitch/roll meter when in a dropship?
B. Dropships in general but especially assault dropships need to point at a much lower angle when *scooped*. The current zoom feature does very little good, sense you are forced to pitch down to shoot anything low than you in that view mode, and because pitching forward causes you to move forward, you get a pretty small window of opportunity.
D. A speedometer across the board for vehicles would be really nice.
A friend of mine just pointed out that I said *scooped* instead of *scoped*.
I apologize for any confusion. |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
168
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 00:48:00 -
[108] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:
One of the coolest things about the Dust 514 HUD is TacNet. I absolutely love how much of the gameplay is scanning, hiding from scans, and e-war in general. One of my favorite things is the detailed information given when you look at another player.
However, its placement and complexity makes it very hard to use mid-battle, expecially on HD screens where the information is smaller, and a larger precentage away from a player's reticle.
For example, try looking up at the top of my post and focusing your eyes there while trying to read the text down here. It's impossible. Now try focusing your eyes here and try reading the above line. Much easier isn't is?
But we don't want to see a blob of text over our reticle...that doesn't help anything. Instead, symbols and colors are the best ways for a person to associate meaning. This is on the same page with the shields/armor thing that was mentioned earlier.
There are two things that should be taken from the current tacnet readout at the bottom of the screen and shown as info next to/on top of the health bar:
-Weapon Efficiency (how effective your weapon is against the current shields/armor of the opponent as represented by a green positive percentage or a red negative percentage).
-Meta Level compared to yours (a circle, triangle, or X should be listed to represent whether the opponent has a lower, similar, or higher meta level...this is currently how items are marked in Dust 514)
I'm not yet authorized to reveal the things that are in the works, but I'd say that having built a nice foundation for being able to quickly iterate and implement HUD content, that we would be disappointing ourselves if we didn't take advantage of it. This is one area that can be easily iterated on once a few pieces of data are exposed to Kismet. We do need to find a way to pass dynamic text to Kismet (Kismet is not incredibly good at handling strings)--but even if we can't we can still rely on a renderTarget, and based on your feedback, it sounds like text is less preferred over icons and graphics, so maybe we lucked out on this part.
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:
Oh, right. I must have missed C. Here you go,
C. Can we get a reticle like the one on the small missile launcher for the small rail gun and blaster?
It is possible to change reticule per weapon, sure. It would be a design decision, though. We are also in the process of moving the 'weapon scopes' used for turrets and snipers out of the post process and into 3D. Otherwise they will be on top of the HUD (not good). |
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
672
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:03:00 -
[109] - Quote
How about some form of really snazzy wireframe for some cool sort of night vision / augmented vision modes?
I think back to the 80`s and early 90`s films and they used to love wireframe for everything. In this day and age could wireframe be bade to look ultra sci-fi and high-tech again? |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4101
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:04:00 -
[110] - Quote
Mc Peanut?
Are you serious?
Your name is Mc Peanut.
Wait wait wait, is that "Mc" like an irish farmer, or MC like you're a rapper? Cause I never heard of no rapper named Peanut. |
|
|
|
CCP Saberwing
C C P
C C P Alliance
4640
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:40:00 -
[111] - Quote
Rumour has it he was meant to be McPeanut, but do to his insane turntabling and beat-spitting skills he became MC Peanut.
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
|
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3391
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 05:13:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:We do need to find a way to pass dynamic text to Kismet...based on your feedback, it sounds like text is less preferred over icons and graphics
The main issue with text is that it requires a focus on reading, and when you're talking about an FPS, the last thing you want to do is read text while you're shooting at someone.
Right now in the current version of Dust, the weapon efficiency is displayed right next to the enemy health bar...but it is the same color as the reticle (grey/blue), and is very small. By coloring it, or having it change slightly when you're within a certain percentage. We recognise subtle changes like this in the corner of our eye even if we can't read them...and the effect is even more aparent when you use things like symbols or shapes (maybe not for percentages, but you get the idea).
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
169
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:43:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rumour has it he was meant to be McPeanut, but do to his insane turntabling and beat-spitting skills he became MC Peanut.
Let's just say it was serendipitous that I hit the spacebar too much. |
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
2701
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 07:41:00 -
[114] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Rumour has it he was meant to be McPeanut, but do to his insane turntabling and beat-spitting skills he became MC Peanut. Let's just say it was serendipitous that I hit the spacebar too much.
Epic. Just epic!
:D
This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
13272
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 09:05:00 -
[115] - Quote
I'm still reading through this thread and digesting some of the stuff that's been said but wow... MC Peanut, you're amazing. <3
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
Ace Starburst wrote:Throwing out a few ideas here that are user interface related.
1. Modules that affect display visualization, such as sonar, x-ray, infrared. Could even have new module slots on the helmet with scouts having the most and heavies/assaults having the least. Possibility of separate types of visual dampeners on low slots. Destructible lights and dark corridors could open up new and interesting strategic possibilities. I can see this one taking quite a bit of work to get right though.
2. Equipment that temporarily disables HUD. (Flux grenades maybe?)
3. Ability to switch to squad mate's vision. Would help in designating targets.
I noticed the sonar part of your feedback and I thought about it a bit. Has anyone seen a sonar/doppler visual mode in any other games? I think we could achieve a sonar visual effect by comparing the vertex normal to the camera normal (dot product) and then factoring in the reflectivity of the surface (which is the specular power--although not all surfaces would have this). The result is that smooth surfaces in the direction you are facing would have a different visual effect (while the rest likely transparent). Although who is to say that your sonar wave projects in a single line--but we could consider a falloff range perhaps. It would be more interesting to account for the doppler effect, which would be worth prototyping. If you colored each pixel based on depth (distance from camera) and had access to a previous frame there could be a way to derive a visualization of things moving (at least moving relative to your position). I can at least bug CCP Photon about this and see what he thinks (of the technical possibility). |
|
Grimmiers
545
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:49:00 -
[117] - Quote
It would be cool if you could convince the team to make a grenade that messes with hud information to throw the player off. After the grenade hits you the chevrons would appear jumbled or maybe it could just simply shut off your tacnet hud temporarily. It would be a great assault tool. |
matsumoto yuichi san
SVER True Blood
39
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 14:50:00 -
[118] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Ace Starburst wrote:Throwing out a few ideas here that are user interface related.
1. Modules that affect display visualization, such as sonar, x-ray, infrared. Could even have new module slots on the helmet with scouts having the most and heavies/assaults having the least. Possibility of separate types of visual dampeners on low slots. Destructible lights and dark corridors could open up new and interesting strategic possibilities. I can see this one taking quite a bit of work to get right though.
2. Equipment that temporarily disables HUD. (Flux grenades maybe?)
3. Ability to switch to squad mate's vision. Would help in designating targets. I noticed the sonar part of your feedback and I thought about it a bit. Has anyone seen a sonar/doppler visual mode in any other games? I think we could achieve a sonar visual effect by comparing the vertex normal to the camera normal (dot product) and then factoring in the reflectivity of the surface (which is the specular power--although not all surfaces would have this). The result is that smooth surfaces in the direction you are facing would have a different visual effect (while the rest likely transparent). Although who is to say that your sonar wave projects in a single line--but we could consider a falloff range perhaps. It would be more interesting to account for the doppler effect, which would be worth prototyping. If you colored each pixel based on depth (distance from camera) and had access to a previous frame there could be a way to derive a visualization of things moving (at least moving relative to your position). I can at least bug CCP Photon about this and see what he thinks (of the technical possibility).
you my friend need to go check out Metroid Prime
fore reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQXwU7ZseWc#t=651 |
Ace Starburst
Tom Cruise Thetan Army
104
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 15:35:00 -
[119] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:
I noticed the sonar part of your feedback and I thought about it a bit. Has anyone seen a sonar/doppler visual mode in any other games? I think we could achieve a sonar visual effect by comparing the vertex normal to the camera normal (dot product) and then factoring in the reflectivity of the surface (which is the specular power--although not all surfaces would have this). The result is that smooth surfaces in the direction you are facing would have a different visual effect (while the rest likely transparent). Although who is to say that your sonar wave projects in a single line--but we could consider a falloff range perhaps. It would be more interesting to account for the doppler effect, which would be worth prototyping. If you colored each pixel based on depth (distance from camera) and had access to a previous frame there could be a way to derive a visualization of things moving (at least moving relative to your position). I can at least bug CCP Photon about this and see what he thinks (of the technical possibility).
There's this http://splintercell.wikia.com/wiki/Sonar_Goggles, also this next one's not technically sonar but it is very Batman
It might frustrate players if they can't detect movement on the edges of their screens. You might consider a radial, cone, or "doughnut" shaped emission field from the user camera and detect any surface it contacts, then generate shadows or negative space based on the angle of the ray and the proximity of the object detected. I could make a quick mock up during my daily digital painting practice if you wanted. A rainbow doppler effect would be pretty slick as far as eye candy is concerned. I can see people zoning out on that like they would to a lava lamp.
On a side note, I'm more than likely going to experiment with 3D sonar visualization to catch fish and somehow work the technology into an art show. I'm guessing to color the object the rig would emit a series of frequencies and assign different colors to each frequency. This would give me some depth to the visualized image, and you might even be able to see the fish's bones and organs as well.
|
Paladin Sas
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
380
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:44:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Ace Starburst wrote:Throwing out a few ideas here that are user interface related.
1. Modules that affect display visualization, such as sonar, x-ray, infrared. Could even have new module slots on the helmet with scouts having the most and heavies/assaults having the least. Possibility of separate types of visual dampeners on low slots. Destructible lights and dark corridors could open up new and interesting strategic possibilities. I can see this one taking quite a bit of work to get right though.
2. Equipment that temporarily disables HUD. (Flux grenades maybe?)
3. Ability to switch to squad mate's vision. Would help in designating targets. I noticed the sonar part of your feedback and I thought about it a bit. Has anyone seen a sonar/doppler visual mode in any other games? I think we could achieve a sonar visual effect by comparing the vertex normal to the camera normal (dot product) and then factoring in the reflectivity of the surface (which is the specular power--although not all surfaces would have this). The result is that smooth surfaces in the direction you are facing would have a different visual effect (while the rest likely transparent). Although who is to say that your sonar wave projects in a single line--but we could consider a falloff range perhaps. It would be more interesting to account for the doppler effect, which would be worth prototyping. If you colored each pixel based on depth (distance from camera) and had access to a previous frame there could be a way to derive a visualization of things moving (at least moving relative to your position). I can at least bug CCP Photon about this and see what he thinks (of the technical possibility).
obviously, we dont want to copy others ideas, but titanfall has a really cool sonarlike effect where it takes "snapshots" of enemies and displays the stills in your FOV, what you get is a really choppy visual of where people/mechs are moving, and it works through walls. might be cool to incorporate something like that. Link to a video |
|
|
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
182
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:28:00 -
[121] - Quote
Ghost Recon Future Soldier had a great X-Ray Vision called the Back-Scatter. Fall-off was 40 Meters
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
180
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 01:27:00 -
[122] - Quote
Thanks for the reference. I wasn't aware of other 'sonar' attempts. I poked around for real sonar maps and found an interesting article: http://www.zmescience.com/other/great-pics/shipwreck-sonar-pictures/
Based on this pic, an effect like this is somewhat achievable. To me, it looks like hue is changing over distance, and the saturation is changing based on reflection angle of the surface. This is do-able, and maybe more scientifically 'accurate', but, of course, if it serves no use for gameplay it is pointless. I imagine that if Titan Fall chose to make the entire screen turn into X-ray mode instead of just overlaying an X-ray effect where players are, it would be too distracting and not useful. Of course, that doesn't mean that the 'in game fictional technology' in these other reference videos isn't seeing the same raw image and not processing it down to a visual effect suitable for the fictional player.
|
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
688
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 01:37:00 -
[123] - Quote
^ Brain |
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
Legio DXIV
1237
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 06:55:00 -
[124] - Quote
How about an icon telling that someone needs ammo.
Check corp tag.
|
Paladin Sas
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
382
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 07:17:00 -
[125] - Quote
Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:How about an icon telling that someone needs ammo.
this, right here. this needs to happen |
Paladin Sas
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
382
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 07:22:00 -
[126] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Ghost Recon Future Soldier had a great X-Ray Vision called the Back-Scatter. Fall-off was 40 Meters
*off topic
Geonosis was a rough day for the 501st, but we proved to the galaxy that we are real, and we will carry the fight to the very doors of our adversaries and beyond. Live strong, fight hard. Your brothers stand beside you. |
Cariuss Shadow
DUST University
Ivy League
24
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 08:35:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:
I noticed the sonar part of your feedback and I thought about it a bit. Has anyone seen a sonar/doppler visual mode in any other games? *snip* I can at least bug CCP Photon about this and see what he thinks (of the technical possibility).
Please tell me CCP Photon exists only to create new visuals.
Actually on topic while new display modes would be awesome quite a few people would have problems with them as they would be much hard to compile into a 3D model in our heads. I can look at a posistion on the map and know the terrain there as I've been there before and put together all the images together, I can't even imagine trying to do this with a location that displays in wireframe or radar, IR and thermal is hard enough. |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2864
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 09:08:00 -
[128] - Quote
Cariuss Shadow wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:
I noticed the sonar part of your feedback and I thought about it a bit. Has anyone seen a sonar/doppler visual mode in any other games? *snip* I can at least bug CCP Photon about this and see what he thinks (of the technical possibility).
Please tell me CCP Photon exists only to create new visuals. Actually on topic while new display modes would be awesome quite a few people would have problems with them as they would be much hard to compile into a 3D model in our heads. I can look at a posistion on the map and know the terrain there as I've been there before and put together all the images together, I can't even imagine trying to do this with a location that displays in wireframe or radar, IR and thermal is hard enough.
It would have to be overlayed, but doing so allows us to also experiment with more atmospheric conditions, I mean if your playing on a suspended mining rig, on a gas giant planet you would expect the atmospere to be so thick, you'll barely see 10m
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
shade emry3
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
68
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 13:14:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Hey Everybody, CCP MC Peanut here--new to the forums (and this is my first post). I'm a Technical Artist here in Shanghai and was mostly involved in the HUD upgrade for the Project Legion Prototype you saw at Fanfest. I'm excited you guys noticed the work and are discussing it. The feedback is super awesome too (so awesome I forwarded the post to a lot of other devs). I thought I would jump in and give a little further explanation about what we did and potentially where we can go from here.
The HUD that you see in the Project Legion Prototype showed at Fanfest is now being rendered inside the 3D Scene. This is a significant change. While what you saw in the demo isn't incredibly different to what was there before, I want to emphasize that we have completely changed the underlying system for creating HUDs and have built a pipeline that puts the artist and designers much closer to the implementation. What you saw was the first implementation with the new system. And while the demo doesn't demonstrate it all--everything is working. In a very short time (a few weeks maybe), a few of us rebuilt the HUD, recreated all the logic, and tuned it to a slightly new visual design.
I'd love to go a little more in depth and explain some of the cooler benefits we are finding with this change:
Artist and Designers can iterate like crazy:
Unreal already has a lot of robust tools available to it, so why not take advantage of them. One of the things the artist love the most is being able to play the game with the editor open and update their material parameters in real-time. The 3D HUD is heavily utilizing the Unreal Material system. For example, all the 'bars' stem from the same base material, which has parameters to control the scale of the ticks, space between, color (including switching the color over position), flashing (speed and color). Tuning these parameters in-game is pretty awesome and very easy. Another example, the most obvious one probably, is that since it is 3D, we can change the position and layout very easily--it is as simple as moving it in the 3D package (Maya) and re-importing the geometry.
Logic outside of code
This was an interesting choice, but I believe it was the right one. We are exposing game data to the artist/designer through events in the visual scripting system, called Kismet (if you aren't familiar with Kismet, it is a node based scripting tool provided within Unreal that allows artists and designers to do more 'programmatic' things). With this change, much of the logic is in the hands of the content creators--the programmers are only responsible for providing the information when applicable. This sounds like it could become overwhelming, and we have been careful about not suddenly dumping everything in their laps. I can give one example. When your shield value changes, an event will be fired (a kismet event inside the HUD map file). This event will expose the current and max shield value. Luckily, our bar material has a max and current parameter input, so we just update the values (using a Kismet action) and all is good. While this is something that sounds like it could be completely programmatic, it is so much nicer to give the content creators the flexibility. If we wanted to, we could trigger a distortion animation every time the armor value changed, and as the armor got lower, the distortion could be more significant. This would require zero programmer support.
Lots of technology to utilize
Because we are in 3D we have access to all the rendering technology as other 3D stuff (suits, weapons, environments). We can also utilize the same tools (materials, modeling, an animation) that our 3D artists are familiar with, so the transition for workflow, was not so bad.
Capacity to be Dynamic
I can't make any promises about racial HUDs, but we are definitely in a much better position to be able to do them. It is very easy to create new 'visual' components without needing to rework the data hookup--and they would be lightweight and low cost.
There is more, and I could go on, but perhaps that is better for follow up posts. Our hope is that we have built a system the is flexible enough to give us more options to do the kinds of things you guys are asking for. Regarding these requests, I can definitely weigh in on their possibility within the system, but I am unable to comment on the likelihood (that is someone else's call). Please keep the feedback coming, and feel free to post follow up questions.
thanks!
You sir have been quoted in the wikia im maintaining, can we get a general background of yourself so we can hyperlink you on our wiki? e,g. technical background, whats your likes and dislikes, if you like long walks on the beach, why your so drawn to art.. stuff like that :) or is their a post relating to this and i missed it? |
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
216
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 13:15:00 -
[130] - Quote
Paladin Sas wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:Ghost Recon Future Soldier had a great X-Ray Vision called the Back-Scatter. Fall-off was 40 Meters *off topic Geonosis was a rough day for the 501st, but we proved to the galaxy that we are real, and we will carry the fight to the very doors of our adversaries and beyond. Live strong, fight hard. Your brothers stand beside you.
I was just saying that because we were on the topic of sonars and being able to see hostiles/ friendlies behind walls. I apologize if it was off-topic. I'll stand by you to brother :) For the Republic!
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
|
|
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 13:44:00 -
[131] - Quote
shade emry3 wrote:
You sir have been quoted in the wikia im maintaining, can we get a general background of yourself so we can hyperlink you on our wiki? e,g. technical background, whats your likes and dislikes, if you like long walks on the beach, why your so drawn to art.. stuff like that :) or is their a post relating to this and i missed it?
Wow. You make me feel way cooler than I should. There should be an official dev spotlight happening soon that should cover the information you want, but I'm happy to answer specific questions if you think they won't be covered in the dev spotlight. |
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5672
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 14:13:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:shade emry3 wrote:
You sir have been quoted in the wikia im maintaining, can we get a general background of yourself so we can hyperlink you on our wiki? e,g. technical background, whats your likes and dislikes, if you like long walks on the beach, why your so drawn to art.. stuff like that :) or is their a post relating to this and i missed it?
Wow. You make me feel way cooler than I should. There should be an official dev spotlight happening soon that should cover the information you want, but I'm happy to answer specific questions if you think they won't be covered in the dev spotlight.
What's your favorite game outside of CCP's titles?
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
shade emry3
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
68
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 14:42:00 -
[133] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:shade emry3 wrote:
You sir have been quoted in the wikia im maintaining, can we get a general background of yourself so we can hyperlink you on our wiki? e,g. technical background, whats your likes and dislikes, if you like long walks on the beach, why your so drawn to art.. stuff like that :) or is their a post relating to this and i missed it?
Wow. You make me feel way cooler than I should. There should be an official dev spotlight happening soon that should cover the information you want, but I'm happy to answer specific questions if you think they won't be covered in the dev spotlight.
what can i say, we all love pixels and vision, its a true gift to be able to put those together, |
shade emry3
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
68
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 14:50:00 -
[134] - Quote
Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:How about an icon telling that someone needs ammo.
+1 on this. im a logi primary class, and the ability to quickly see when someones low is a priority, and it makes sense in the fact that suits monitor ammo capacity as well as a number of other factors. this isnt COD, this is the future, please make this happen. |
iliel
Heaven's Lost Property
50
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:02:00 -
[135] - Quote
shade emry3 wrote:Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:How about an icon telling that someone needs ammo. +1 on this. im a logi primary class, and the ability to quickly see when someones low is a priority, and it makes sense in the fact that suits monitor ammo capacity as well as a number of other factors. this isnt COD, this is the future, please make this happen.
Yes - - a mana bar!
And while you're at it, make logis' symbol on enemy and friendly HUD be unique so that I know who to kill first. Come on, this isn't COD, it's the future! |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
207
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:10:00 -
[136] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:shade emry3 wrote:
You sir have been quoted in the wikia im maintaining, can we get a general background of yourself so we can hyperlink you on our wiki? e,g. technical background, whats your likes and dislikes, if you like long walks on the beach, why your so drawn to art.. stuff like that :) or is their a post relating to this and i missed it?
Wow. You make me feel way cooler than I should. There should be an official dev spotlight happening soon that should cover the information you want, but I'm happy to answer specific questions if you think they won't be covered in the dev spotlight. What's your favorite game outside of CCP's titles?
I can't pick a single favorite, but I can break down an 'at the moment' favorite for a few genres (FPS left out to avoid interest conflicts):
Adventure: Secret of Monkey Island
Fighting: Super Smash Brothers
Action: Uncharted Series
Racing: Big Bumpin' (the Burger King Game)
Indie: Hotline Miami |
|
Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
228
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:31:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:I can't pick a single favorite, but I can break down an 'at the moment' favorite for a few genres (FPS left out to avoid interest conflicts):
Adventure: Secret of Monkey Island
Fighting: Super Smash Brothers
Action: Uncharted Series
Racing: Big Bumpin' (the Burger King Game)
Indie: Hotline Miami
Here, have another like
My favourite game (series) of all times!
Ohh, and unofficial plus for Uncharted as well |
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2322
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:34:00 -
[138] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:shade emry3 wrote:
You sir have been quoted in the wikia im maintaining, can we get a general background of yourself so we can hyperlink you on our wiki? e,g. technical background, whats your likes and dislikes, if you like long walks on the beach, why your so drawn to art.. stuff like that :) or is their a post relating to this and i missed it?
Wow. You make me feel way cooler than I should. There should be an official dev spotlight happening soon that should cover the information you want, but I'm happy to answer specific questions if you think they won't be covered in the dev spotlight. What's your favorite game outside of CCP's titles? I can't pick a single favorite, but I can break down an 'at the moment' favorite for a few genres (FPS left out to avoid interest conflicts): Adventure: Secret of Monkey Island Fighting: Super Smash Brothers Action: Uncharted Series Racing: Big Bumpin' (the Burger King Game) Indie: Hotline Miami
favorite flight game
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
|
shade emry3
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
68
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:47:00 -
[139] - Quote
iliel wrote:shade emry3 wrote:Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:How about an icon telling that someone needs ammo. +1 on this. im a logi primary class, and the ability to quickly see when someones low is a priority, and it makes sense in the fact that suits monitor ammo capacity as well as a number of other factors. this isnt COD, this is the future, please make this happen. Yes - - a mana bar! And while you're at it, make logis' symbol on enemy and friendly HUD be unique so that I know who to kill first. Come on, this isn't COD, it's the future!
i like this idea as well |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
210
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:48:00 -
[140] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:shade emry3 wrote:
You sir have been quoted in the wikia im maintaining, can we get a general background of yourself so we can hyperlink you on our wiki? e,g. technical background, whats your likes and dislikes, if you like long walks on the beach, why your so drawn to art.. stuff like that :) or is their a post relating to this and i missed it?
Wow. You make me feel way cooler than I should. There should be an official dev spotlight happening soon that should cover the information you want, but I'm happy to answer specific questions if you think they won't be covered in the dev spotlight. What's your favorite game outside of CCP's titles? I can't pick a single favorite, but I can break down an 'at the moment' favorite for a few genres (FPS left out to avoid interest conflicts): Adventure: Secret of Monkey Island Fighting: Super Smash Brothers Action: Uncharted Series Racing: Big Bumpin' (the Burger King Game) Indie: Hotline Miami favorite flight game
Although it's relatively new, I find Kerbal Space Program very satisfying. |
|
|
|
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2322
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:44:00 -
[141] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:
Although it's relatively new, I find Kerbal Space Program very satisfying.
That's a sim tbh, but fine, I'll take that. I respect you now.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
|
Paladin Sas
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
395
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:35:00 -
[142] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Paladin Sas wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:Ghost Recon Future Soldier had a great X-Ray Vision called the Back-Scatter. Fall-off was 40 Meters *off topic Geonosis was a rough day for the 501st, but we proved to the galaxy that we are real, and we will carry the fight to the very doors of our adversaries and beyond. Live strong, fight hard. Your brothers stand beside you. I was just saying that because we were on the topic of sonars and being able to see hostiles/ friendlies behind walls. I apologize if it was off-topic. I'll stand by you to brother :) For the Republic!
Lol, I was off topic. Your doing great. Keep it up |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10832
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 21:36:00 -
[143] - Quote
I would very much like racial HUDs to be implemented in Legion, by which I mean the color and visual style of the HUD should reflect the aesthetic of the dropsuit's racial manufacturer; the elements of a Minmatar HUD would look orange for example, and look similar to Minmatar tribal tattoos (example 2). Elements of an Amarr HUD would be gold and be ornately designed similar to the variety of symbols already used in the Amarr Empire.
A while ago I was asked by CCP Saberwing to compile a list of important HUD features that I believe are needed. I would appreciate it if you had a look at them. (link)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:The great and mighty CCP Saberwing flew to me from the heavens with his saber-sharp wings, and he has beseeched me, the glorious emperor god-king KAGEHOSHI, with a scroll with five-hundred-fourteen golden seals (Twitter message) asking me to compile a list of important HUD stuff. In the past I have made this thread ( Improving the HUD) full of ways to improve the HUD, but here I shall extract only the most important functional stuff, as well as some new ones I have come across on the forums. [Map/minimap] East, West, and South on the minimap. Very important.
Grids on the map/minimap to make calling out locations more effective, similar to how the maps have grids in the map feedback section (example). Your current coordinates should be very easy to tell on the minimap. If possible, the target readout when aiming should also list the coordinates as well.
Building outlines shown on the minimap. This is very important information to know.
[Team/squad] Who's talking indicator: A speaker icon along with the name of the person talking should pop up when someone on your team or squad is talking. Also the icon should float over their characters heads so you can visually see who is talking.
Squad list: A list of your squadmates right on the HUD. Should include sqad status indicators:
-Their current suit under their names (to quickly visually identify them) -Squad leader indicator (duh) -Shield and armor bar to easily tell who needs help, etc. -Mortally wounded indicators (name highlighted in red) -Inside a vehicle indicators (little car symbol) -Clone terminated/respawning indicators (name is grey, or crossbones symbol) Total squad WP below the list so you can tell how close to getting a strike your squad is.
An indicator for strikes that stays on the screen until the is used. Sometimes the notifications aren't noticed in the heat of battle, so having them last until the strike is used (or are no longer available).
[Equipment] Support equipment icons: Its useful to know who is carrying a nanohive, repair tool, and nanite injector, even when you don't currently need those things. It can be very important to know what your teammates can and can't do for you.
Low ammo icon: those who carry nanohives should see a special icon over those with low ammo to indicate the need for nanohives.
Have the equipment that you or your squadmates deployed appear as a green to know which ones are yours or your squad's.
Some sort of notification of when your equipment has been destroyed.
[Weapon] A different crosshair to indicate when a weapon is done charging, right now its hard to tell when for example a forge gun is fully charged because the charge gauge is all the way down inside the ammo meter; I shouldn't have to take my eyes of the target to check if fully charged. This would not be needed if all weapons had a distinctive sound, animation, and/or visual effect synchronized with charge completetion to queue the user. This one isn't really that important since you can just get use to it, but I think it would be good for usability.
The grenades-carried indicator on your HUD should display different symbols for the various grenade types, or some text to tell you what your type of grenades are.
[Other] We need an indicator to know when we are being repaired by a repair tool. This is very important for teamwork; you don't want a guy you're repairing to run off from you because he doesn't know you were repairing him. This is a must, we had it before a while ago, but it was removed (thought its removal was a bug, but maybe it isn't).
I noticed right now that messages about whether you are scanned, hacking taking place, and others occupy the same place, and only one can be displayed; if an enemy starts hacking a CRU, I will no longer get information about whether or not I have been scanned. It might be good idea to just stack these messages, and even the squad order, RDV, and strike messages to the right where the kill-tracker currently is, and move the kill-tracker thing lower on the screen to make room (inspired by this).
-Upper right corner may be able to display squad orders, if you have been scanned, pending RDV requests, what is being hacked, etc. -Lower right corner will show who kills who. Behold the mighty list! marvel at how I typed things!
I would appreciate it if you could reply informing me of your thoughts regarding these requests, and generally which are possible to implement.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3403
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 01:15:00 -
[144] - Quote
This is one of my classic rants, but I donGÇÖt think I have posted it in here yet.
Each squad member should have a number on their dot on the mini map which corresponds to their position in the Squad list. This number should also display above their heads when you look at them.
This will facilitate the communication, as you will be able to quickly identify someone by their number and relay information to them. The classic example is GÇ£Hey Dot 4, you got a shotgun on your 6!GÇ¥
When working closely with a squad I often see things I need to warn other squad members about, but I have no way of identifying which squad member I am addressing. A lot of times in DUST, I would not know how to pronounce someone's name, even if I could see it well enough to read it. A number would work fine as long as the HUD makes it clear to each person what number they are. A number would also be easier to display and easier to read than a name.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
233
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 02:02:00 -
[145] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I would very much like racial HUDs to be implemented in Legion, by which I mean the color and visual style of the HUD should reflect the aesthetic of the dropsuit's racial manufacturer; the elements of a Minmatar HUD would look orange for example, and look similar to Minmatar tribal tattoos (example 2). Elements of an Amarr HUD would be gold and be ornately designed similar to the variety of symbols already used in the Amarr Empire.
This is possible to do. My thinking now is that we just create new models for each component (weapon, suit, target, minimap) for all the varieties we need, and then have a way to pick from based upon current stats/equipment. We should consider other areas of the HUD that are/may be dynamic, because it could create a permutation explosion. If we run into a permutation problem, then we would have to move some of this to be dynamically driven, such as a parameter on a material or actor that is driven by a game data value.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:[Map/minimap] East, West, and South on the minimap. Very important.
Grids on the map/minimap to make calling out locations more effective, similar to how the maps have grids in the map feedback section (example). Your current coordinates should be very easy to tell on the minimap. If possible, the target readout when aiming should also list the coordinates as well.
Building outlines shown on the minimap. This is very important information to know.
I discussed the minimap in detail in an earlier post--it is not something we have fully figured out for recreating in 3D. But your questions regarding the building outlines and grid lines are a bit different. Building outlines need to come from the 3D scene. Currently the minimap is only aware of the "playable area" (which is available as a 2D mask texture). For building outlines we could have 'minimap' geometry that is included with the building (but never rendered in the scene)--doable, but a few unknowns on my part regarding the minimap generation. Content-wise, it would be a bit of work to setup the minimap outline models (although there may a smart shader that could approximate this--depends on the visual effect we want).
GridLines could be included in the base minimap background texture. If we moved that to 3D, we would probably use a 3D icon to label the grid sections and then use a small tiling texture for the grid lines. This may be why it wasn't done before (because a single gridline texture could be huge).
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
[Team/squad]
Who's talking indicator: A speaker icon along with the name of the person talking should pop up when someone on your team or squad is talking. Also the icon should float over their characters heads so you can visually see who is talking.
Squad list: A list of your squadmates right on the HUD. Should include sqad status indicators:
-Their current suit under their names (to quickly visually identify them)
-Squad leader indicator (duh)
-Shield and armor bar to easily tell who needs help, etc.
-Mortally wounded indicators (name highlighted in red)
-Inside a vehicle indicators (little car symbol)
-Clone terminated/respawning indicators (name is grey, or crossbones symbol)
Total squad WP below the list so you can tell how close to getting a strike your squad is.
An indicator for strikes that stays on the screen until the is used. Sometimes the notifications aren't noticed in the heat of battle, so having them last until the strike is used (or are no longer available).
The squad info can be done by creating squad 'slots' (identified by an ID numnber perhaps) and having kismet events for state change and event handling. This would need to be done with careful consideration on performance, though, because squad information is coming through the server, rather than the client. If we have too much data to update there could be a performance drop. If that is a problem, then it is possible we update at predefined intervals, with single event--this would save performance, but it may result in a less than instantaneous update (although this data does need to be transmitted to your suit anyway)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
[Equipment]
Support equipment icons: Its useful to know who is carrying a nanohive, repair tool, and nanite injector, even when you don't currently need those things. It can be very important to know what your teammates can and can't do for you.
Low ammo icon: those who carry nanohives should see a special icon over those with low ammo to indicate the need for nanohives.
Have the equipment that you or your squadmates deployed appear as a green to know which ones are yours or your squad's.
Some sort of notification of when your equipment has been destroyed.
Again, possible, but same consideration as above, regarding data coming through the server. Also much of this information would need to be on a 3D Icon in the scene, rather than planted on the HUD.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
[Weapon]
A different crosshair to indicate when a weapon is done charging, right now its hard to tell when for example a forge gun is fully charged because the charge gauge is all the way down inside the ammo meter; I shouldn't have to take my eyes of the target to check if fully charged. This would not be needed if all weapons had a distinctive sound, animation, and/or visual effect synchronized with charge completetion to queue the user. This... |
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10841
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 02:24:00 -
[146] - Quote
Thank you for the reply, what HUD features are among your goals for Legion by release? What do you foresee the HUD being like?
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8652
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 02:33:00 -
[147] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Thank you for the reply, what HUD features are among your goals for Legion by release? What do you foresee the HUD being like?
This I like to know as well.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
237
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 03:06:00 -
[148] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Thank you for the reply, what HUD features are among your goals for Legion by release? What do you foresee the HUD being like? This I like to know as well.
This is not something I am able to comment directly on, unfortunately. I am not in a position to make decisions on what we ultimately implement. What I can say is that the new HUD pipeline is dramatically more flexible such that our artists and designers can be more directly involved to implement the things that they want. I can say that the feedback is immensely helpful and you guys have challenged me with lots of questions that have made me re-examine some of our system implementations (which is good). |
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8653
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 03:37:00 -
[149] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Thank you for the reply, what HUD features are among your goals for Legion by release? What do you foresee the HUD being like? This I like to know as well. This is not something I am able to comment directly on, unfortunately. I am not in a position to make decisions on what we ultimately implement. What I can say is that the new HUD pipeline is dramatically more flexible such that our artists and designers can be more directly involved to implement the things that they want. I can say that the feedback is immensely helpful and you guys have challenged me with lots of questions that have made me re-examine some of our system implementations (which is good).
Great to know.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
447
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 07:59:00 -
[150] - Quote
So, what about making things pretty?
I played all of the Metroid Prime games, which do some really awesome HUD effects to add to the immersion.
Like, if a map has valves that blow steam into a room and you walk into that steam, your vision gets obscured. Icy regions cause your screen to show ice crystals on the borders. Damage would produce static and EM weapons would cause the HUD to fade in and out. Or, when an explosion goes off in front of your face, you can see the reflection of your face on the inside of your visor.
The latter would obviously not make sense for this game, considering that we aren't looking through transparent visors. Well, at least for the Medium suits that seems to be the case - The Caldari and Gallente scout look like they might actually have visor systems. |
|
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5674
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 08:18:00 -
[151] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI pretty much summed up a lot of the aesthetic stuff (some I could honestly work without but would be nice to have). The only thing I really want to add is that, as a CQC/Frontline fighter the information needs to be presented in a way that is streamlined and more readily available for me to view on the fly without having to look all over the screen (I have a 40" Plasma, afterall).
My premise.
Currently the information read-out shoves everything at the bottom of the screen and we're either expected to be able to read small text with peripheral vision, or take our eyes off the target and read that information for better awareness as to what we're about to engage.
I had run this through the photo-editing software a while back and discussed some things on Skype and while it had mixed opinions about different things, this is how I'd like the information to be presented, personally. The highlight around the target is a bit cheesy but I know for sure what I'm aiming at, I know that it's a Militia variant, the HP bars provide contextual information (though I forgot actual values). But more importantly, all the information is right there in the center so I don't need to worry as much about taking my eyes off the target; I can track him whilst getting important information.
Optional Reading: I know some players are going to throw up a red flag about the target highlight but honestly, it does this anyway. It's how counter-sniping is so easy, all you have to do is drag the crosshair over the general area where they are and the information box at the bottom pops up for no reason. Something that I personally think should only ever happen if your precision beats their profile, which would actually give more incentive to run Scout or fit precision enhancers.
What are your considerations toward how information is presented based on the users' play-style/preference?
Crosshairs:
Current Mass Driver has a range-finder/leaf sight. Current Plasma Cannon.. doesn't. Despite both weapons having a project drop, I get more contextual information with the Mass Driver than the Plasma Cannon, leaving it to be "eye-balled".
What are your plans to rectify these sort of things?
The users' preference in cross hair style?
Or even just a crosshair that is actual useful for the weapons' chosen engagement field?
Option to turnoff HUD:
Some of us like making videos. A while back I had proposed a way to pay aurum to turn off the HUD so we could make actual videos without all the UI interference and it was well received.
[*] Thoughts on giving us the ability to turn off UI elements?
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3417
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 14:29:00 -
[152] - Quote
While I do agree with you here, after a lot of time with the plasma cannon you begin to understand why the reticle is designed the way it is. The PLC arc is not like the mass driver's constant arc...instead the projectile has a steep dropoff after about 100-150 meters. This makes it fly relatively straight...so using the little dash under the main section actually works quite well. Extended dashes or a leaf structure below the main reticle would definitely help.
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Some of us like making videos. A while back I had proposed a way to pay aurum to turn off the HUD so we could make actual videos without all the UI interference and it was well received.
I thought there was already a HUD opacity level in the options menu? I used to have it set to 60 because it looked cooler, but it made the minimap almost impossible to read easily. I think at 0 it removes the HUD altogether, but I'd really like to see an option to go into "camera mode" or something where you can't even see your hands/weapon. That would be the best.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5677
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 21:51:00 -
[153] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:While I do agree with you here, after a lot of time with the plasma cannon you begin to understand why the reticle is designed the way it is. The PLC arc is not like the mass driver's constant arc...instead the projectile has a steep dropoff after about 100-150 meters. This makes it fly relatively straight...so using the little dash under the main section actually works quite well. Extended dashes or a leaf structure below the main reticle would definitely help. Aeon Amadi wrote:
Some of us like making videos. A while back I had proposed a way to pay aurum to turn off the HUD so we could make actual videos without all the UI interference and it was well received.
I thought there was already a HUD opacity level in the options menu? I used to have it set to 60 because it looked cooler, but it made the minimap almost impossible to read easily. I think at 0 it removes the HUD altogether, but I'd really like to see an option to go into "camera mode" or something where you can't even see your hands/weapon. That would be the best.
Unfortunately the opacity won't remove it entirely.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
725
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 23:08:00 -
[154] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Thank you for the reply, what HUD features are among your goals for Legion by release? What do you foresee the HUD being like? This I like to know as well. This is not something I am able to comment directly on, unfortunately. I am not in a position to make decisions on what we ultimately implement. What I can say is that the new HUD pipeline is dramatically more flexible such that our artists and designers can be more directly involved to implement the things that they want. I can say that the feedback is immensely helpful and you guys have challenged me with lots of questions that have made me re-examine some of our system implementations (which is good).
While it sucks that you cant give us a brief artistic description of what you envisage, I understand that isn't your prerogative.
That being said, you have been invaluable on the forums recently, especially in relation to the UI as a whole. You have posted more in this single thread over the last week or so, than we have probably gotten in dev blogs since forever.
So a BIG thankyou for spending the time to talk about things. Not all of us fully understand everything, however its great that you are putting in the time and effort with the community. +1 good sir! |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
258
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 00:45:00 -
[155] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:So, what about making things pretty?
I played all of the Metroid Prime games, which do some really awesome HUD effects to add to the immersion.
Like, if a map has valves that blow steam into a room and you walk into that steam, your vision gets obscured. Icy regions cause your screen to show ice crystals on the borders. Damage would produce static and EM weapons would cause the HUD to fade in and out. Or, when an explosion goes off in front of your face, you can see the reflection of your face on the inside of your visor.
The latter would obviously not make sense for this game, considering that we aren't looking through transparent visors. Well, at least for the Medium suits that seems to be the case - The Caldari and Gallente scout look like they might actually have visor systems.
This is something we can do by adding material effects on the visor mesh. These are pretty fun to create actually. You have a lot of things to utilize also. We could distort the scene behind, overlay ambient effects (such as ice, steam, or water droplets). Also we can capture the scene (behind) as a texture node (within the visor material) and do all sorts of things to it (invert, contrast, distort by texture coordinate (different than the built in distortion and I think it looks better).
We aren't really working on this kind of stuff now because, while it can affect gameplay and should be balanced and considered by designers, it is still a post-style effect, that should be figured out after all the root systems are in place. |
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
258
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 00:46:00 -
[156] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Thank you for the reply, what HUD features are among your goals for Legion by release? What do you foresee the HUD being like? This I like to know as well. This is not something I am able to comment directly on, unfortunately. I am not in a position to make decisions on what we ultimately implement. What I can say is that the new HUD pipeline is dramatically more flexible such that our artists and designers can be more directly involved to implement the things that they want. I can say that the feedback is immensely helpful and you guys have challenged me with lots of questions that have made me re-examine some of our system implementations (which is good). While it sucks that you cant give us a brief artistic description of what you envisage, I understand that isn't your prerogative. That being said, you have been invaluable on the forums recently, especially in relation to the UI as a whole. You have posted more in this single thread over the last week or so, than we have probably gotten in dev blogs since forever. So a BIG thankyou for spending the time to talk about things. Not all of us fully understand everything, however its great that you are putting in the time and effort with the community. +1 good sir!
You're welcome. Thank you for the kind words. It will only encourage me to post more. |
|
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2342
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 00:53:00 -
[157] - Quote
MC is in 1st place for listening to the players. +1 MC!
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3419
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 05:40:00 -
[158] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:MC is in 1st place for listening to the players. +1 MC!
I actually subscribed to this thread because of how detailed the replies have been, and more importantly the amount of replies.
Even if most of the detail is simply what is POSSIBLE rather than what is/isn't being worked on, it's SO much better and interesting than a DEV just telling us "Yeah we're considering doing something like that".
I know that Saberwing and Logibro are both community managers (in other words, they don't work on the game itself), but their understanding of how the game actually works is quite limited (or so it seems).
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 14:54:00 -
[159] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:This is one of my classic rants, but I donGÇÖt think I have posted it in here yet.
Each squad member should have a number on their dot on the mini map which corresponds to their position in the Squad list. This number should also display above their heads when you look at them.
This will facilitate the communication, as you will be able to quickly identify someone by their number and relay information to them. The classic example is GÇ£Hey Dot 4, you got a shotgun on your 6!GÇ¥
When working closely with a squad I often see things I need to warn other squad members about, but I have no way of identifying which squad member I am addressing. A lot of times in DUST, I would not know how to pronounce someone's name, even if I could see it well enough to read it. A number would work fine as long as the HUD makes it clear to each person what number they are. A number would also be easier to display and easier to read than a name.
Edit: For team deploy we could have two numbers. The first represents which squad you are in, and the second represents your position on the squad list. Alternatively, since there will not be a lot of squads, we could use just the squad list number and color code it according to which squad you are in. So you might be Green 3, or Black 5, or Orange 6, depending on which squad you are in (color) and your position in the squad (number).
I totally agree. Is there any way that this could be implemented, MC Peanut? |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:18:00 -
[160] - Quote
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:This is one of my classic rants, but I donGÇÖt think I have posted it in here yet.
Each squad member should have a number on their dot on the mini map which corresponds to their position in the Squad list. This number should also display above their heads when you look at them.
This will facilitate the communication, as you will be able to quickly identify someone by their number and relay information to them. The classic example is GÇ£Hey Dot 4, you got a shotgun on your 6!GÇ¥
When working closely with a squad I often see things I need to warn other squad members about, but I have no way of identifying which squad member I am addressing. A lot of times in DUST, I would not know how to pronounce someone's name, even if I could see it well enough to read it. A number would work fine as long as the HUD makes it clear to each person what number they are. A number would also be easier to display and easier to read than a name.
Edit: For team deploy we could have two numbers. The first represents which squad you are in, and the second represents your position on the squad list. Alternatively, since there will not be a lot of squads, we could use just the squad list number and color code it according to which squad you are in. So you might be Green 3, or Black 5, or Orange 6, depending on which squad you are in (color) and your position in the squad (number). I totally agree. Is there any way that this could be implemented, MC Peanut?
I'm sorry I must have missed Fox's post as it feels like I am reading this for the first time. Please feel free to bump a question if I don't give a direct answer.
I'd wager this is possible and much more plausible if we setup a robust 3D Icon system. Dynamic text rendering should be a part of this icon system, so we can have a Mesh Icon (a generic squad icon) with a small plane mesh in front, or on the corner (containing a numeric value). I am guessing a little here as I am not familiar at all with the current squad setup. Color would also be a way to handle further information depth, but the server would likely need to assign the colors to the squads and then send it through kismet--probably not a performance issue since it happen infrequently. Also, if we want to display an icon over the player, we should be able to utilize the same icon, or an icon derived from the same base, as from the HUD.
|
|
|
|
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
223
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 18:36:00 -
[161] - Quote
That sounds swell. How possible would it be to add curvature to the Hud, so it actually looks like an helmet? Even though this isn't reality, in life you can glance to your left or right and see area to your ears without turning around entirely. The screen could curve so you can slightly see to your right and left, and a little bit perpendicular your nose. This would challenge flanking players to really work hard for the kill, because running from the side of a person should not be as easy as it is, and really add immersion. Saw a grenade blast near your ear? Holy crap I should see what that came from. Getting shot from your left, you may see bullet trails from that direction, giving a much better indication of where the shooter is.
Yes, I know there should be situational awareness, but only having a 45 degree view of what is in front of us when we have a near 90 or 180 actually is quite interesting. To aid in balance, make the edges and side blurrier, so if you glance you can see your side, but to get a crisp image you need to turn as we do now. In life, what is in front of you is the focus, so you aren't constantly distracted by things your outside. And yes, I know we should invest in precision enhancers, but other than that-
Thoughts?
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
285
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 00:58:00 -
[162] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:That sounds swell. How possible would it be to add curvature to the Hud, so it actually looks like an helmet? Even though this isn't reality, in life you can glance to your left or right and see area to your ears without turning around entirely. The screen could curve so you can slightly see to your right and left, and a little bit perpendicular your nose. This would challenge flanking players to really work hard for the kill, because running from the side of a person should not be as easy as it is, and really add immersion. Saw a grenade blast near your ear? Holy crap I should see what that came from. Getting shot from your left, you may see bullet trails from that direction, giving a much better indication of where the shooter is.
Yes, I know there should be situational awareness, but only having a 45 degree view of what is in front of us when we have a near 90 or 180 actually is quite interesting. To aid in balance, make the edges and side blurrier, so if you glance you can see your side, but to get a crisp image you need to turn as we do now. In life, what is in front of you is the focus, so you aren't constantly distracted by things your outside. And yes, I know we should invest in precision enhancers, but other than that-
Thoughts?
This could be hard to present well because there is not a distinction between head, torso, and feet movement when turning. Some games handle this by having the head rotate first, up to a tolerance, then an animation kicks in and the player takes a few steps turning the body to 're-center' the head. This works better in a 3rd person mode because it is subtle and it doesn't really affect gameplay. In the first person view it may be hard to tell when you've reached your head turn tolerance. But it may be ok if it is a subtle effect and doesn't move the HUD much. Still, this would require that we track the tolerance and 're-center' when it is exceeded, which is something I don't know. If further discussion happen on the movement, I'll try and bring this up. |
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3426
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 01:05:00 -
[163] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Yes, I know there should be situational awareness, but only having a 45 degree view of what is in front of us when we have a near 90 or 180 actually is quite interesting.
This is the reason why CQC in this game is ridiculously hard.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
Oswald Rehnquist
1368
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 01:08:00 -
[164] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:That sounds swell. How possible would it be to add curvature to the Hud, so it actually looks like an helmet? Even though this isn't reality, in life you can glance to your left or right and see area to your ears without turning around entirely. The screen could curve so you can slightly see to your right and left, and a little bit perpendicular your nose. This would challenge flanking players to really work hard for the kill, because running from the side of a person should not be as easy as it is, and really add immersion. Saw a grenade blast near your ear? Holy crap I should see what that came from. Getting shot from your left, you may see bullet trails from that direction, giving a much better indication of where the shooter is.
Yes, I know there should be situational awareness, but only having a 45 degree view of what is in front of us when we have a near 90 or 180 actually is quite interesting. To aid in balance, make the edges and side blurrier, so if you glance you can see your side, but to get a crisp image you need to turn as we do now. In life, what is in front of you is the focus, so you aren't constantly distracted by things your outside. And yes, I know we should invest in precision enhancers, but other than that-
Thoughts? This could be hard to present well because there is not a distinction between head, torso, and feet movement when turning. Some games handle this by having the head rotate first, up to a tolerance, then an animation kicks in and the player takes a few steps turning the body to 're-center' the head. This works better in a 3rd person mode because it is subtle and it doesn't really affect gameplay. In the first person view it may be hard to tell when you've reached your head turn tolerance. But it may be ok if it is a subtle effect and doesn't move the HUD much. Still, this would require that we track the tolerance and 're-center' when it is exceeded, which is something I don't know. If further discussion happen on the movement, I'll try and bring this up.
I've dome something similar to this already
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7OdomK1wfBOOWFWTUhiTTNzTk0/edit?usp=sharing
It doesn't take a whole lot, this was my caldari version to emphasis their angular asthetics
Below 28 dB
|
MA347612890GT4078579132R
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 02:01:00 -
[165] - Quote
Hawk-eye Occultus wrote:I personally prefer my text windows on the bottom left. Basically: allow users to move HUD elements around as they please; because everyone loves HUD customization. Also, allow different HUD colours. I was pretty happy when I saw the compass on the top of the screen (^ v ^)
Now I'll admit I didn't read all 9 pages, so my apologies if someone already mentioned this bit, but perhaps a toggle option to go between two different UI types, one where all the information is at the edges of the screen, and one where all the information is focused in the middle? I mean, UI customization is nice too, this is just an idea. There have been a few games I've played, and their names elude me at this moment, where there was a toggle option for this 'centered' UI where important information like health and ammo was centered around the targeting reticule in a non-obstructing way, and it was amazingly helpful. |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
285
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 02:04:00 -
[166] - Quote
Oops. Not answering full questions strikes again. Yes it is possible to actually change the camera Angle of View so you can see more, but it could have affects on other areas that are affected by camera depth and angle--it could also just be too much information on screen and would either be visually displeasing or reduce performance (more to render) . If we widened the angle of view, then it would be possible to take the Visor HUD mush (which is curved) and apply some sort of distortion on the edges. It would be a similar technique to what is used in the turrets, but I'm not exactly sure realistic it would look. The distortion effect basically shifts the underlying pixels in an x or y direction based on a 0-1 color value--there is a bit of compression/expansion in play, but it is not something I've found easy to control (although it is something we can investigate further).
But again, this is a major change of the presentation that game designers and higher ups would make. I can make them aware of its possibility. |
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10854
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 02:55:00 -
[167] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:KAGEHOSHI pretty much summed up a lot of the aesthetic stuff (some I could honestly work without but would be nice to have). The only thing I really want to add is that, as a CQC/Frontline fighter the information needs to be presented in a way that is streamlined and more readily available for me to view on the fly without having to look all over the screen (I have a 40" Plasma, afterall). My premise. Currently the information read-out shoves everything at the bottom of the screen and we're either expected to be able to read small text with peripheral vision, or take our eyes off the target and read that information for better awareness as to what we're about to engage. I had run this through the photo-editing software a while back and discussed some things on Skype and while it had mixed opinions about different things, this is how I'd like the information to be presented, personally. The highlight around the target is a bit cheesy but I know for sure what I'm aiming at, I know that it's a Militia variant, the HP bars provide contextual information (though I forgot actual values). But more importantly, all the information is right there in the center so I don't need to worry as much about taking my eyes off the target; I can track him whilst getting important information. Optional Reading: I know some players are going to throw up a red flag about the target highlight but honestly, it does this anyway. It's how counter-sniping is so easy, all you have to do is drag the crosshair over the general area where they are and the information box at the bottom pops up for no reason. Something that I personally think should only ever happen if your precision beats their profile, which would actually give more incentive to run Scout or fit precision enhancers. What are your considerations toward how information is presented based on the users' play-style/preference?
Crosshairs: Current Mass Driver has a range-finder/leaf sight. Current Plasma Cannon.. doesn't. Despite both weapons having a project drop, I get more contextual information with the Mass Driver than the Plasma Cannon, leaving it to be "eye-balled". What are your plans to rectify these sort of things?
The users' preference in cross hair style?
Or even just a crosshair that is actual useful for the weapons' chosen engagement field?
Option to turnoff HUD: Some of us like making videos. A while back I had proposed a way to pay aurum to turn off the HUD so we could make actual videos without all the UI interference and it was well received. Thoughts on giving us the ability to turn off UI elements?
This is an interesting post
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
742
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 05:06:00 -
[168] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:Yes, I know there should be situational awareness, but only having a 45 degree view of what is in front of us when we have a near 90 or 180 actually is quite interesting. This is the reason why CQC in this game is ridiculously hard.
What actually is the Field of view in DUST? I usually set this to about 90+ deg. in other games as I find about that is nice for me personally.
Is dust really played with a 45deg. field of view?(It feels about 70deg. to me) However that would explain a lot if it is so low. |
medomai grey
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
765
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 05:11:00 -
[169] - Quote
I thought the whole point of radars in FPSs was to compensate for the restricted field of view?
Medium frame EHP is not medium
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3429
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 06:32:00 -
[170] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:
Is dust really played with a 45deg. field of view?(It feels about 70deg. to me) However that would explain a lot if it is so low.
If it was 45 degrees the screen would look expanded.
Pretty sure it is somewhere between 60 and 90 though. This is on my list of the "things you might not know" series I'm currently doing on my youtube channel.
Basically I'll have two blue dots move to 100 meters out from where I am. Then I'll have them move to the edges of my FOV, while still maintaining the 100 meter distance. Once everyone is in position, the blue dots tell me how far away they are from each other. Once I have all 3 sides of the "triangle", it's just a matter of simple trig to determine the exact FOV
If they are more than 100 meters apart, the FOV is wider than 90 degree. If they are less than 100 meters apart, the FOV will be less than 90. For those that don't know trig, all angles of a triangle add up to 180 no matter what (because all angles of a square are 90, 90x4 = 360, and cut a square in half diaganally you get a triangle, 360/2 is 180). So a triangle with all sides the same length means all angles are the same.
Simple (well, for people like me who love math of course)
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
|
|
Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
476
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 08:26:00 -
[171] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:How possible would it be to add curvature to the Hud, so it actually looks like an helmet?
We're not looking at the inside of a helmet though.
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3430
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 10:26:00 -
[172] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:
What actually is the Field of view in DUST? I usually set this to about 90+ deg. in other games as I find about that is nice for me personally.
FOV is most likely 70-75
http://imgur.com/mklvupB
Here's a video that explains FOV a bit, found it interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLHsfQS9p_Y
apparently 75 is standard for games, so maybe it has something to do with player models or something.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
454
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 11:41:00 -
[173] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:That sounds swell. How possible would it be to add curvature to the Hud, so it actually looks like an helmet? Even though this isn't reality, in life you can glance to your left or right and see area to your ears without turning around entirely. The screen could curve so you can slightly see to your right and left, and a little bit perpendicular your nose. This would challenge flanking players to really work hard for the kill, because running from the side of a person should not be as easy as it is, and really add immersion. Saw a grenade blast near your ear? Holy crap I should see what that came from. Getting shot from your left, you may see bullet trails from that direction, giving a much better indication of where the shooter is.
Yes, I know there should be situational awareness, but only having a 45 degree view of what is in front of us when we have a near 90 or 180 actually is quite interesting. To aid in balance, make the edges and side blurrier, so if you glance you can see your side, but to get a crisp image you need to turn as we do now. In life, what is in front of you is the focus, so you aren't constantly distracted by things your outside. And yes, I know we should invest in precision enhancers, but other than that-
Thoughts?
...You mean field of view?
CCP, I seriously hope that you add an FoV slider into this game, now that it's on PC. It needs to go up to at least 90.
There is no excuse for utilizing 45-¦ FoV on a PC game.
However, make 45-¦ the default. It's funny to see Planetside 2 videos where 90% of the players have the situational awareness of headless chickens, due to running at default FoV.
Edit:
Console FoV is generally lower than PC FoV, because the player's distance to the screen is higher. |
Andris Kronis
Legio DXIV
46
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 13:22:00 -
[174] - Quote
I just finished the 9 pages of posts so far :)
Some great suggestions so far from everyone so just a little to add from me.
Basic premise: the more customisable the UI is (in game - before match or during) the greater benefit it will be for the player.
Assuming: That there are some default modes the new player can select.
I started playing Eve after I had played DUST514 for a while and there are some remarkable things in the Eve UI that would be fantastic if translated to Legion.
Let me decide how much information I recieve. Let me put those things where I want them to be.
As a new player - in either game - I can only process a certain amount of information, this would be the minimal set of information, my HP, mini map display, compass, etc.
As an experienced player I want more information, so let me turn on more notifications.
Allow some slots for customised UI that the player can configure.
As a Logi: Announcements for ally health, ammo status, and a million other things are turned on.
As a Heavy: Announcements for (being) repped status are turned on.
Associate a default notification overlay for individual suits perhaps?
Allow switching to other overlays during a game?
Customised status icons as mentioned by others already ... Fantastic.
Field of View slider ... I beg of you please put this in. My personal field off view is rather wide so the narrow one currently in 514 makes me feel like I'm constrained in a small metal box.
Occulus Rift 3D goggle integration .... yes it will make me sick to play but I'll have so much fun being sick with my buddies ..... I'll be able to get my FOV by looking around IRL ;)
Its late here and rather than become (more) incoherent I will stop with what I have so far. |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
295
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 14:20:00 -
[175] - Quote
We do have a separate FOV control on the HUD geometry. So changing the game FOV would not affect this. Thank you smart engineer who thought to do this in advance. |
|
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
2663
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 00:45:00 -
[176] - Quote
MC Peanut, you are wonderful! Thanks for taking the time to answer some of our questions. I'm certain it means a lot to many of the players reading this thread. It's been an uphill battle trying to get better communication from CCP but I'm relieved to finally see Shanghai making a strong effort to interact with the players. I hope this is the start of a much needed trend.
Am I understanding that it may be possible to adjust the FOV? Because that would be absolutely brilliant.
Keep droppin dem phat beats.
|
Andris Kronis
Legio DXIV
51
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 06:36:00 -
[177] - Quote
Awesome-sauce.
Its hard to know how customisable the UI is planned to be.
e.g. racial HUD layouts
If we can also customise our own layouts and have the racial ones as a fallback position, or choosable default that would be excellent.
The ability to move notifications and status icons/boxes around would be great.
If this is too difficult to do within the existing framework then the ability to turn on and off different notifications would be very good too.
I currently play every 'class' or role except for assault. (I don't have the spare SP for the suits)
I thought it might be nice to describe the potential UI experience as one or more of the roles I usually perform.
Logistics.
My prototype Minmatar logistics suit is configured in its usual general close support role configuration, prototype repair tool, combined repair and ammunition hive, droplink and a reasonable nanite stick onboard for when all else fails. My weapon of choice is a BK-42 assault combat rifle, a reasonable trade off between fitting and damage capability, leaving more PG and CPU for other things, like a few shield extenders, armour plates and perhaps a prototype profile dampener to have a little bit of EWAR going on the side. Flux grenade is my go-to standard for killing enemy links and hives.
- Standing to the rear of my squad I can see the shield and armour health of all my squad mates along with their names. I've got this turned on for all team mates.
- I receive automatic messages when any squad mate falls below 1/2 armour while they are within my scan range.
- My squadmates and team members can broadcast a "need armour" message which I will receive as I have that notification turned on.
- Ammo status is displayed in my squadmates and team members above head indicators, I decided that having allies, even just random team members with lots of ammo was a good thing, I might turn off that bar later if it gets too annoying.
- I placed my text notifications box on the far left, it was annoying me on the right so I'm experimenting with having it on the other side, I had to move a few other things around but its working so far. Should it be disturbing me as a minmatar character that my layout is starting to look like an Amarri?
- I'm still debating if I want to receive "Need Ammo" messages from team mates, but I'm leaving it on for squad mates, I have turned off auto notification of low ammo status as most of my squads run with a combination of hives and links on their assault suits. They will announce if they really need ammo or I will see it in their status icons above their head, that should be plenty for now.
- I have turned on the extended range option for revive notifications, any ally needing revive within my scan range will give me a notification, it only really gets annoying when everyone is dieing a lot ... and then I'm likely to follow soon after.
- I now have an extended set of mini map icons configured, telling me enemy makeup and ally status, it's a little complicated but I'm getting used to the new settings quickly.
Summer and Haerr go charging ahead, flanking the objective, they go out of sight but I don't get any revive notifications so I know they are ok, along with the lack of swearing on comms. Red icons appear in my scanner, looks like a Heavy and a Logi from the shapes, they blink out a couple of seconds later as the dynamic duo "sort them out". Anni is forging ahead in his heavy suit and Kira is in their customary laser of doom set up, I link them both with my proto rep tool as we come into the main part of the objective, Anni runs a proto scan of the objective and I swear as we get a half dozen new and varied red icons on our scan map.
Summer gives the order to flank east, set up a nest and the three of us move out in a new direction, I get my link and one of my hives down in one of the buildings and Anni gets fired up to toast the enemy as they approach the exit we choose to protect. Kira is gone, off somewhere getting a height and range advantage for his laser rifle to use as the reds approach the objective, I check my scan and his commando suit icon is distinctive and north east from our positions, two random blues, one heavy and one scout are moving to assist but we have no comms to them.
The blue heavy enters out building, I know he's in trouble from the "need Ammo" and "need Armour" broadcasts he started making long before he got to me, I have the second hive down already and the second beam of my proto rep tool plays across his gallente frame.
Swearing from comm, brief and cut off along with the "revive needed" icon flashing at 30m lets me know that Kira is down, the scan radius shows he is in a reasonable spot, Kira says he got railed trying to flank one of the two approaching groups, I decide that Anni and the blue heavy can hold down the position for the thirty seconds it will take me to get out and back from a revive.
On the way back I start seeing several "need Armour notifications and the silence on comms tells me Anni is in a bad way, he's not usually this quiet unless something is wrong. Red symbols in the point tell me all I need to know, too many, too many heavies.
The rep tool is already lined up as I enter the building from the rear again link up to the two heavy suits, we barely repel the reds and we get moved on by Summer, he has seen something on the overview with some intel from another squad and it's time to move out.
The LAV's arrive in time to get us out of the area, looks like a couple of scavenging enemy squads have moved into our area and we are outnumbered.
As I sit in the passenger seat I consider moving my notification window back to the other side again, it was probably fine there all along. |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
334
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 08:33:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now
I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs
|
|
|
CCP Saberwing
C C P
C C P Alliance
4959
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 08:34:00 -
[179] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs
Ridiculously awesome <3
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
|
|
jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1518
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 08:38:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs
Good stuff.
Closed beta vet.
|
|
|
steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3113
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 08:50:00 -
[181] - Quote
Stuck at work :-P llaammee cant watch, but good way of showing us that this stuff is working:-)
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
|
Jadek Menaheim
Ancient Textiles.
3072
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 09:06:00 -
[182] - Quote
Inclusion of degrees in this presentation is great! Would still like to see all compass orientaions represnted somehow, preferably on mini tac. Would that be too much clutter?
Gÿ+/ Join MySpaceTom's army
/Gûî
/\
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5704
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 11:49:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs
Interesting. Someone refresh me, did the Plasma Rifle always have a 50 round magazine?
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9865
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 11:50:00 -
[184] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs Interesting. Someone refresh me, did the Plasma Rifle always have a 50 round magazine?
The Militia AR has 48.
I am assuming that's what he's using.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5704
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 11:51:00 -
[185] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs Interesting. Someone refresh me, did the Plasma Rifle always have a 50 round magazine? The Militia AR has 48. I am assuming that's what he's using.
Ah, good point. Been too long since I've used it 
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9865
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 11:52:00 -
[186] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs Interesting. Someone refresh me, did the Plasma Rifle always have a 50 round magazine? The Militia AR has 48. I am assuming that's what he's using. Ah, good point. Been too long since I've used it
Yes, I have so many BPO's of the AR, I don't remember the last time I used a militia variant lol
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5704
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 11:53:00 -
[187] - Quote
Soooo is the bullet stuff on the side of the ammo counter an indication of fire mode? Are we going to be able to change that in Legion
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9865
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 11:54:00 -
[188] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Soooo is the bullet stuff on the side of the ammo counter an indication of fire mode? Are we going to be able to change that in Legion
I believe it has always been there?
I dunno, I never payed much attention to the HUD.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
CEOPyrex CloneA
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
701
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 12:11:00 -
[189] - Quote
Assume this compass can be interfered with via EW modules? perhaps it also doesnt work on certain planets due to interference / no magnetic fields (if powered that way)
How about making this a module that has to be setup as the match starts to enable certain HUD devices / widgets and can be attacked by cloakers who can disable certain HUD functions either by EW grenades or killing a planted device acting as an intel uplink?
(how about eve players deploying satellites in orbit for certain intel features?
omg my brain hurts but gg chaps, keep the vids coming. |
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 12:37:00 -
[190] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Assume this compass can be interfered with via EW modules? perhaps it also doesnt work on certain planets due to interference / no magnetic fields (if powered that way)
How about making this a module that has to be setup as the match starts to enable certain HUD devices / widgets and can be attacked by cloakers who can disable certain HUD functions either by EW grenades or killing a planted device acting as an intel uplink?
(how about eve players deploying satellites in orbit for certain intel features?
omg my brain hurts but gg chaps, keep the vids coming.
Wow that is a fantastic point that I hadn't yet thought of. It would be very easy to 'mess' with the compass. We could offset it by a wrong value, or even merge in a 2nd value that is animating. I'll point some designers to your post. |
|
|
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
13617
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 13:47:00 -
[191] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs
Fantastic.
Would it be possible to put supply depots and suchlike on the compass?
If you look at the elder scrolls series compass that's pretty much what I mean - have objectives on it as well.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Cross Atu for CPM1
|
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1034
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 13:48:00 -
[192] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs
Great example of a small feature that can mean a lot...well done.
Also - great idea with the video clip. Would be keen to hear about your work in a future Dev Focus blog....
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
Legio DXIV
1267
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 13:59:00 -
[193] - Quote
Moar videos!
Check corp tag.
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8682
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 14:22:00 -
[194] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Assume this compass can be interfered with via EW modules? perhaps it also doesnt work on certain planets due to interference / no magnetic fields (if powered that way)
How about making this a module that has to be setup as the match starts to enable certain HUD devices / widgets and can be attacked by cloakers who can disable certain HUD functions either by EW grenades or killing a planted device acting as an intel uplink?
(how about eve players deploying satellites in orbit for certain intel features?
omg my brain hurts but gg chaps, keep the vids coming. Wow that is a fantastic point that I hadn't yet thought of. It would be very easy to 'mess' with the compass. We could offset it by a wrong value, or even merge in a 2nd value that is animating. I'll point some designers to your post.
You get one free hug by Miku.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
1346
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 14:25:00 -
[195] - Quote
More videos from you guys please.
CPM1 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1671
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 17:44:00 -
[196] - Quote
A few questions. Pardon me if these have already been answered, I only just noticed this thread.
1. A semi-common feature in shooters is to have your ammo amount be displayed holographically next to the weapon. Would it be possible to implement this as an toggleable feature, perhaps also showing heat as well as ammo?
2. If we ever get speedometers, how would you feel about implementing an accelerometer as well for vehicles, especially aircraft? It would be interesting and helpful to know how fast I'm speeding up as well as how fast I'm currently going.
I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
|
Captain Crutches
Nexus Marines
133
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 18:58:00 -
[197] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:2. If we ever get speedometers, how would you feel about implementing an accelerometer as well for vehicles, especially aircraft? It would be interesting and helpful to know how fast I'm speeding up as well as how fast I'm currently going.
Also on the subject of speedometers, please either put them in m/s or make us able to set it to that. I play a lot of PS2, and one of the things I hate most is that the speedometers are in km/h, so I have to mentally multiply that number by 3.6 to get my speed in useful units.
Legion is absolutely the right move for the future of Dust. How CCP went about revealing it is the biggest problem.
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1891
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 22:13:00 -
[198] - Quote
As Pyrex said, having North-South-West-East doesn't make sense as we call the direction our magnetic pole is North. The intelligent species at the bottom of the ocean might call it South. However, as humans on Earth playing a game made by other humans (allegedly) having an indicator of North-South-East-West on the mini map would be very useful for when your squad mates are saying "there is a tank to the southeast" and you are trying to figure out where that might be because you have No F****** Sense of Direction (NFSOD).
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
Foehammerr
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
20
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 22:28:00 -
[199] - Quote
MC Peanut, when I watched the clip of the compass, I noticed that (to me at least) the rotation of the compass feels unnatural and counter intuitive. Having the compass act static and behave as if the user is looking inside a circle would be better in my opinion. What i mean by that is to have the compass rotate the opposite way of which the user turns.n++
Rangers Lead The Way!
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
|
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 23:18:00 -
[200] - Quote
Foehammerr wrote:MC Peanut, when I watched the clip of the compass, I noticed that (to me at least) the rotation of the compass feels unnatural and counter intuitive. Having the compass act static and behave as if the user is looking inside a circle would be better in my opinion. What i mean by that is to have the compass rotate the opposite way of which the user turns.n++
Beat me to it... But yes, I think static icons on the compass would make more sense. Maybe have it be an option? |
|
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8687
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 23:28:00 -
[201] - Quote
Foehammerr wrote:MC Peanut, when I watched the clip of the compass, I noticed that (to me at least) the rotation of the compass feels unnatural and counter intuitive. Having the compass act static and behave as if the user is looking inside a circle would be better in my opinion. What i mean by that is to have the compass rotate the opposite way of which the user turns.n++
It could be that he's basing it off the way a magnetic compass looks to an aircraft pilot in real life. Many such compasses on airplanes work like that.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 00:34:00 -
[202] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Foehammerr wrote:MC Peanut, when I watched the clip of the compass, I noticed that (to me at least) the rotation of the compass feels unnatural and counter intuitive. Having the compass act static and behave as if the user is looking inside a circle would be better in my opinion. What i mean by that is to have the compass rotate the opposite way of which the user turns.n++
It could be that he's basing it off the way a magnetic compass looks to an aircraft pilot in real life. Many such compasses on airplanes work like that.
Good catch. Actually I already flipped it to rotate reverse (CCP BaoZi pointed it out), but that wasn't in the build I recorded from. So it obviously gives me room to post more videos. |
|
Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Caps and Mercs
500
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 00:50:00 -
[203] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut, you-¦re the perfect example of a tech guy, answering tech questions, having a good talk with the players, and setting the limits of what you can and can-¦t do, and mos importantly, what is up and what isn-¦t up to you to be decided.
Besides the initial bad vibe from CCP Z plans (hoe he-¦s digesting all the 30 pages feedback and come back to talk to us), all the devs are quite responsive and with a good interaction, but you sir outstands
Kudos for you for having a proper dialog with the commmunity, i have no idea what you and the other tech savy people are talking about when you discuss the tools, but you enthusiasm and passion for your job is contagious. =) |
IgniteableAura
The Last of DusT.
General Tso's Alliance
1150
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 01:49:00 -
[204] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs Ridiculously awesome <3
MC Peanut for president!
Dont suppose you could add things like N,S,E,W on that compass too? Please please pretty please. So we know if its NNW or SSE etc.
Youtube
|
Captain Crutches
Nexus Marines
133
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 03:48:00 -
[205] - Quote
Natu Nobilis wrote:CCP MC Peanut, you-¦re the perfect example of a tech guy, answering tech questions, having a good talk with the players, and setting the limits of what you can and can-¦t do, and mos importantly, what is up and what isn-¦t up to you to be decided.
Besides the initial bad vibe from CCP Z plans (hoe he-¦s digesting all the 30 pages feedback and come back to talk to us), all the devs are quite responsive and with a good interaction, but you sir outstands
Kudos for you for having a proper dialog with the commmunity, i have no idea what you and the other tech savy people are talking about when you discuss the tools, but you enthusiasm and passion for your job is contagious. =)
Quoted for truth. You and more recently BaoZi have been hands down the best dev posters in this forum. Keep it up, I check back here and elsewhere you're active every day! o7
Z's progression is the only thing about Legion that gives me doubts. The rest has me totally stoked!
@CaptainCrutches
|
The-Errorist
Sver true blood
714
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 05:00:00 -
[206] - Quote
Captain Crutches wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:2. If we ever get speedometers, how would you feel about implementing an accelerometer as well for vehicles, especially aircraft? It would be interesting and helpful to know how fast I'm speeding up as well as how fast I'm currently going. Also on the subject of speedometers, please either put them in m/s or make us able to set it to that. I play a lot of PS2, and one of the things I hate most is that the speedometers are in km/h, so I have to mentally multiply that number by 3.6 to get my speed in useful units.
Well there should just be an option for metric or imperial.
MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
365
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 09:00:00 -
[207] - Quote
Since someone noticed the backwards rotation, gotta update, or risk losing coolness points: http://youtu.be/mumOikxPNjs
|
|
steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3120
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 09:16:00 -
[208] - Quote
Devours video :-P
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
|
Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
254
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 09:50:00 -
[209] - Quote
Keep them coming
Munch munch |
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5719
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 11:09:00 -
[210] - Quote
My only recommendation is a marker for true north. Looks great, not going to lie, but to someone who doesn't have knowledge of how aircraft compasses work it looks like a bunch of numbers that are relative to my position. Also, what's the scale of the compass? 0-100? 0-360? This kind of information could greatly help tactical communication. If 0 is True North, then I can tell my team-mates that the sniper is "Twenty degrees from my location" or something to that extent.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
|
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
368
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 12:18:00 -
[211] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:My only recommendation is a marker for true north. Looks great, not going to lie, but to someone who doesn't have knowledge of how aircraft compasses work it looks like a bunch of numbers that are relative to my position. Also, what's the scale of the compass? 0-100? 0-360? This kind of information could greatly help tactical communication. If 0 is True North, then I can tell my team-mates that the sniper is "Twenty degrees from my location" or something to that extent.
Yes absolutely. I agree--I didn't even know it was moving backwards with the numbers. It would have been more obvious if I turned right and suddenly I'm facing West. I'm pretty sure the artists, when they update the texture for this, will add some markers, but I can't say for sure.
As for displaying objectives and such on the compass (an earlier question asked this). This is a little more complicated than the compass itself, as the position is related to the objective position and your position/orientation. Actually, when I first thought about it, I thought this was hard, but then after a day I realized it isn't. You just need a normalized vector to the objective and the players facing vector--then you can figure out the angle (same way with the compass--arctan2). This could actually be done with a shader, but you would need texture sampler for each objective. Also you could create a different polygon ring for each objective and let them sit slightly on top (so close you couldn't tell). The hardest part is getting the position of the objective--this wouldn't be immediately available in the shader, but it could be set with an event, as objectives don't change position (but if we wanted to track other things that do change position that may need to use a different way).
Wow--this is cool--totally do-able. Thanks for making me think about it. I'll propose it to the team.
|
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3448
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:05:00 -
[212] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:
Wow--this is cool--totally do-able. Thanks for making me think about it. I'll propose it to the team.
Back when I was doing Game Design stuff I found it really useful to just blab to random people in the class about ideas. I remember a specific time when I was at a complete roadblock because of the way I was coding the upgrades (I made it hard on myself by attributing all of the stats to the projectiles, and then making it so that certain projectiles were used
I just explained the problem to someone else, how I wish I could code it...which was the solution I had been looking for all along.
The funny part was when I thanked him for helping me figure it out and he tells me "but I didn't say anything". Sometimes it just helps to bounce things off of people lol
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5721
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:39:00 -
[213] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:My only recommendation is a marker for true north. Looks great, not going to lie, but to someone who doesn't have knowledge of how aircraft compasses work it looks like a bunch of numbers that are relative to my position. Also, what's the scale of the compass? 0-100? 0-360? This kind of information could greatly help tactical communication. If 0 is True North, then I can tell my team-mates that the sniper is "Twenty degrees from my location" or something to that extent. Yes absolutely. I agree--I didn't even know it was moving backwards with the numbers. It would have been more obvious if I turned right and suddenly I'm facing West. I'm pretty sure the artists, when they update the texture for this, will add some markers, but I can't say for sure. As for displaying objectives and such on the compass (an earlier question asked this). This is a little more complicated than the compass itself, as the position is related to the objective position and your position/orientation. Actually, when I first thought about it, I thought this was hard, but then after a day I realized it isn't. You just need a normalized vector to the objective and the players facing vector--then you can figure out the angle (same way with the compass--arctan2). This could actually be done with a shader, but you would need texture sampler for each objective. Also you could create a different polygon ring for each objective and let them sit slightly on top (so close you couldn't tell). The hardest part is getting the position of the objective--this wouldn't be immediately available in the shader, but it could be set with an event, as objectives don't change position (but if we wanted to track other things that do change position that may need to use a different way). Wow--this is cool--totally do-able. Thanks for making me think about it. I'll propose it to the team.
^_-
Combine this sort of tactical viability through information gathering with a grid-map on the actual overhead and you've given the guys on the ground everything they need to effectively communicate in the same way that we would in the military. Can play into a whole new meta for effective squad leaders/commanders who can accurately read into the battlefield and provide that information effectively to their team. Congratulations, you just achieved everything Field Command leaders have been asking for.
EDIT: Oh, right - on that note - if we do get a grid-layout for the map... Any chance you could include what grid we're in on our HUD? Just something simple, off in the corner or next to the compass to signify that I'm in G6 or where-ever. That way someone can tell me that "Enemy is at H7" and I know exactly where I need to be / how close they are, instantly 
ANOTHER EDIT: Albeit in retrospect that may be rather difficult to accomplish. Your call though.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 16:57:00 -
[214] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Combine this sort of tactical viability through information gathering with a grid-map on the actual overhead and you've given the guys on the ground everything they need to effectively communicate in the same way that we would in the military. Can play into a whole new meta for effective squad leaders/commanders who can accurately read into the battlefield and provide that information effectively to their team. Congratulations, you just achieved everything Field Command leaders have been asking for. EDIT: Oh, right - on that note - if we do get a grid-layout for the map... Any chance you could include what grid we're in on our HUD? Just something simple, off in the corner or next to the compass to signify that I'm in G6 or where-ever. That way someone can tell me that "Enemy is at H7" and I know exactly where I need to be / how close they are, instantly Here's an example of what I'm trying to illustrate: http://i.imgur.com/ScbP8SX.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/k4m9amb.jpgANOTHER EDIT: Albeit in retrospect that may be rather difficult to accomplish. Your call though.
I would like to see this too, but I think that numerical coordinates would ad to emersion more. Calling out, 'There is a sniper at D - 10!' Doesn't have the same effect as 'There is a sniper at 4 - 10!' to me. Kind of feels more like Battleship (the boardgame). Added to that, you can have more precision with decimals. 'There is a sniper at 4.5 - 10.1!' Lastly, if (as I hope) they begin to make maps on a larger scale, you can just keep counting up, instead of limiting it to 26 units. |
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
226
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:27:00 -
[215] - Quote
Really digging the grid map, especially if we can zero in orbitals to that point, get crazy accurate. Hell, it could even have a red circumference in the Orbital Screen to show possible splash damage reach. Crazy helpful in PC since you could say, "EVERYONE FROM 4.5-20 TO 8.3-30 NEEDS TO GET THE HELL OUTTA DODGE CAUSE I'M DROPPING THIS THING!"
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
|
Kain Spero
3576
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 20:28:00 -
[216] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut, I just want to thank you for engaging the community so openly and with so much depth. It is something that is awesome for the players and awesome for the future of the game as a whole. Keep it up.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
|
The-Errorist
SVER True Blood
718
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 01:04:00 -
[217] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:My only recommendation is a marker for true north. Looks great, not going to lie, but to someone who doesn't have knowledge of how aircraft compasses work it looks like a bunch of numbers that are relative to my position. Also, what's the scale of the compass? 0-100? 0-360? This kind of information could greatly help tactical communication. If 0 is True North, then I can tell my team-mates that the sniper is "Twenty degrees from my location" or something to that extent. Yes absolutely. I agree--I didn't even know it was moving backwards with the numbers. It would have been more obvious if I turned right and suddenly I'm facing West. I'm pretty sure the artists, when they update the texture for this, will add some markers, but I can't say for sure. As for displaying objectives and such on the compass (an earlier question asked this). This is a little more complicated than the compass itself, as the position is related to the objective position and your position/orientation. Actually, when I first thought about it, I thought this was hard, but then after a day I realized it isn't. You just need a normalized vector to the objective and the players facing vector--then you can figure out the angle (same way with the compass--arctan2). This could actually be done with a shader, but you would need texture sampler for each objective. Also you could create a different polygon ring for each objective and let them sit slightly on top (so close you couldn't tell). The hardest part is getting the position of the objective--this wouldn't be immediately available in the shader, but it could be set with an event, as objectives don't change position (but if we wanted to track other things that do change position that may need to use a different way). Wow--this is cool--totally do-able. Thanks for making me think about it. I'll propose it to the team.
In the description of the domination game mode for Legion, it said that the object changes every 10min, so that might be a problem.
MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
406
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 03:22:00 -
[218] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:^_- Combine this sort of tactical viability through information gathering with a grid-map on the actual overhead and you've given the guys on the ground everything they need to effectively communicate in the same way that we would in the military. Can play into a whole new meta for effective squad leaders/commanders who can accurately read into the battlefield and provide that information effectively to their team. Congratulations, you just achieved everything Field Command leaders have been asking for. EDIT: Oh, right - on that note - if we do get a grid-layout for the map... Any chance you could include what grid we're in on our HUD? Just something simple, off in the corner or next to the compass to signify that I'm in G6 or where-ever. That way someone can tell me that "Enemy is at H7" and I know exactly where I need to be / how close they are, instantly Here's an example of what I'm trying to illustrate: http://i.imgur.com/ScbP8SX.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/k4m9amb.jpgANOTHER EDIT: Albeit in retrospect that may be rather difficult to accomplish. Your call though.
I know they previously looked into a grid overlay on the overview map before, but they ran into issues with the terrain being in 3D and the UI being done in 2D Postprocess--this doesn't work well because the terrain has depth and the grid overlay is flat and above the terrain--it will not line up properly.
It can be achieved if the grid is done in 3D. There is one shader technique where you can draw pixels only at the intersection points of polygons. I attempted a small prototype by adding some polygons that intersected with the terrain (they are huge), but the thickness of the 'line' changes too much with slope and distance, so we would still need to figure out a way to improve this (and there are ways). Another way this could be done is by building it into the material on the terrain and use WorldSpace mapping coordinates (basically you can use the x,y value as a texture coordinate). This seems better and I'm leaning more towards it (although the first technique would be useful if we wanted to show a scan effect going across the landscape). Still there is a roadblock in figuring out how to apply this grid material--we don't want to it as part of the terrain material all the time--some of the starmap work is requiring something similar, so I'm hopeful we can learn from that.
If we can make certain our overlay map is placed mathematically correct, then it shouldn't be too hard to display what quadrant you are in. In fact, this could be completely done on the content side if the terrains always align to the same world space point (which I believe is true). In the material for the grid coordinate we just look up the world space coordinate and convert it to a grid coordinate--then we have a texture with each coordinate label in a grid (like a texture atlas), and we shift our mapping coordinates appropriately. Probably not too bad, but I'm simplifying the steps and might be missing something (ducks).
The-Errorist wrote:
In the description of the domination game mode for Legion, it said that the object changes every 10min, so that might be a problem.
Actually it is ok if it switches in frequently. I was more referring to marking positions of things that could be frequently (like every frame) moving, such as a player. |
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10924
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 08:09:00 -
[219] - Quote
Some HUD features I would like for immersion.
HUD boot-up when we spawn. The various HUD elements should turn like 1 seconds after you spawn.
Head-shot damage visual distortion effects. Sensors & cameras for vision are located in helmet, so when shields are down and you are hit by headshot, the cameras' vision should be effected. This could make the HUD flash off briefly.
Thank you
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5738
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 12:01:00 -
[220] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:The-Errorist wrote:
In the description of the domination game mode for Legion, it said that the object changes every 10min, so that might be a problem.
Actually it is ok if it switches infrequently. I was more referring to marking positions of things that could be frequently (like every frame) moving, such as a player.
Don't we already do this with Squad Orders though? Not bringing that up as a way of saying "Hey, copy/paste the methodologies of that here" I'm saying that as: If we already have the functionality to track a moving player with squad orders, no reason to add something that does the same thing =P
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
|
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5741
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 12:06:00 -
[221] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Some HUD features I would like for immersion.
HUD boot-up when we spawn. The various HUD elements should turn like 1 seconds after you spawn.
Head-shot damage visual distortion effects. Sensors & cameras for vision are located in helmet, so when shields are down and you are hit by headshot, the cameras' vision should be effected. This could make the HUD flash off briefly.
Thank you
Blue Screen xD
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
409
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 13:09:00 -
[222] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:The-Errorist wrote:
In the description of the domination game mode for Legion, it said that the object changes every 10min, so that might be a problem.
Actually it is ok if it switches infrequently. I was more referring to marking positions of things that could be frequently (like every frame) moving, such as a player. Don't we already do this with Squad Orders though? Not bringing that up as a way of saying "Hey, copy/paste the methodologies of that here" I'm saying that as: If we already have the functionality to track a moving player with squad orders, no reason to add something that does the same thing =P
Yea we already do that and are doing it in a 2D system and generally it works fine. If we moved this to a 3D system we would be able to better control (on the content side) the visual rendering of these icons. We would also be able to add more complex /dynamic information, such as animations, dynamic text, visual states, and shaders (like a health bar on an icon). It may also give us more flexibility to expand on it since it becomes more content driven. However, we would likely only move to a 3D system if we felt the benefits were worth the cost of moving. In the case of the HUD, the benefits were worth the cost.
As for doing this on the compass--this can't use the existing system because the compass exists in the 3D world while the current icons are drawn in 2D (using 3D positions and converting to screen position). Also we probably can't track the player position on the compass using the method I described above because it would require constant updating, and kismet is not great for that--this would be better to be done on a custom actor class and controlled within the class itself (faster).
Or am I missing your question again. I am actually not incredibly familiar with the workings of squad interaction so I may be missing the point.
|
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5741
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 14:34:00 -
[223] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:The-Errorist wrote:
In the description of the domination game mode for Legion, it said that the object changes every 10min, so that might be a problem.
Actually it is ok if it switches infrequently. I was more referring to marking positions of things that could be frequently (like every frame) moving, such as a player. Don't we already do this with Squad Orders though? Not bringing that up as a way of saying "Hey, copy/paste the methodologies of that here" I'm saying that as: If we already have the functionality to track a moving player with squad orders, no reason to add something that does the same thing =P Yea we already do that and are doing it in a 2D system and generally it works fine. If we moved this to a 3D system we would be able to better control (on the content side) the visual rendering of these icons. We would also be able to add more complex /dynamic information, such as animations, dynamic text, visual states, and shaders (like a health bar on an icon). It may also give us more flexibility to expand on it since it becomes more content driven. However, we would likely only move to a 3D system if we felt the benefits were worth the cost of moving. In the case of the HUD, the benefits were worth the cost. As for doing this on the compass--this can't use the existing system because the compass exists in the 3D world while the current icons are drawn in 2D (using 3D positions and converting to screen position). Also we probably can't track the player position on the compass using the method I described above because it would require constant updating, and kismet is not great for that--this would be better to be done on a custom actor class and controlled within the class itself (faster). Or am I missing your question again. I am actually not incredibly familiar with the workings of squad interaction so I may be missing the point.
All gravy. I was simply suggesting to the other person that we already have functionality geared toward marking positions of moving targets, however rudimentary it may be.
Some of the common suggestions by the community as far as the overall HUD though are:
Squad information on the HUD (name/HP/voice activation indicator)
Customization of layout. Though you covered this fairly well in a previous post, I'd like to reinforce the suggestion due to it's popularity. Some players I talk to say they'd like to be able to move stuff around to match other games they're used to (not going to lie, I generally prefer ammo count to be closer to the crosshair/immersive)
UI Scaling is another big suggestion.
Along the lines of customization though, I personally have always preferred diegetic UI styles (example provided for those who don't know what this means) and because of Dust 514/Legion's unique Sci-Fi setting it provides a lot of excuse to go absolutely crazy with that.
Technically, you could offload a lot of the artist work by just adding a color changer to the HUD elements (Fallout 3 did this) and get a "Racial HUD lite" sort of thing going on. If I'm not mistaken all you'd have to do is adjust some shaders with different presets, right?
If you wanted to -really- do the community justice you could even allow some leeway for modders to create their own HUD elements (Eve players used to do this using the overview's XML) but I could see that becoming very dangerous if someone gets the bright idea to use it for cheats/glitches.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
Orca Amsel
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
683
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 16:09:00 -
[224] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:CCP MC Peanut has a youtube channel now I got permission to upload some footage of the compass. The texture is still a work in progress and will be updated later by artists, but you can see it moving with the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk3C5HPoZs
I think having an east/west marker and an N instead would be better than having a single arrow.
Fire CCP Shanghai.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
411
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 01:28:00 -
[225] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:A few questions. Pardon me if these have already been answered, I only just noticed this thread.
1. A semi-common feature in shooters is to have your ammo amount be displayed holographically next to the weapon. Would it be possible to implement this as an toggleable feature, perhaps also showing heat as well as ammo?
2. If we ever get speedometers, how would you feel about implementing an accelerometer as well for vehicles, especially aircraft? It would be interesting and helpful to know how fast I'm speeding up as well as how fast I'm currently going.
This is another benefit to moving 3D that I didn't really talk about, but yes, as the HUD is in 3D now, the content is setup in a very similar way as a weapon (in fact on my first visual prototype I replaced a weapon to get it into game). This means we can attach a polygon to a weapon (or a weapon joint) and have some UI element look projected from the weapon. It also means we could take our existing HUD materials (such as an ammo bar) and map them directly on weapons (although this could be a bit annoying because someone would have to go back on all the weapons and add some new polygons).
For speedometers, we should have the velocity value, but this is something that may be difficult to display like the other HUD because velocity is constantly changing--I would be concerned the update event would experience lag or be a little choppy--an Engineer may have a better answer (I only have a concern). If we didn't do it this way we may be able to use animation trees, which should be more responsive to handling parameters that change constantly. I've felt we would eventually need to include animation trees into the HUD/3D UI system anyway. |
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15187
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 09:19:00 -
[226] - Quote
Any chances for interhud glass effects?
Like walking through a steam vent fogs up the hud glass? (ala Metroid Prime effects?)
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3458
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 10:03:00 -
[227] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Any chances for interhud glass effects?
Like walking through a steam vent fogs up the hud glass? (ala Metroid Prime effects?)
I was interested int this idea at first...but the dropsuits we have in Dust aren't like space suits with helmets. In other words, our merc isn't looking through a face shield/glass
Instead it's more like Ironman where there is a holo display inside the helmet, and that displays whatever the outside cameras are displaying.
MCP replied about this a few pages back...another thing was balancing and making sure that certain effects won't have any ill effect on gameplay to make it unfair or not fun.
Still, the cameras have to have some sort of shield cover or protection against the elements, so there's always the possibility. My favorite effect from the Metroid Prime games had to have been the way you'd see a flash of Samus' eyes reflecting in the visor when there was a bright light or when missiles hit near you. Either that or when you'd get hit with some sort of EMP blast that made you have to restart your suit system before you could get your HUD back.
Talk about putting you in the game...immersion at its finest in those games for sure.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
414
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 10:33:00 -
[228] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Any chances for interhud glass effects?
Like walking through a steam vent fogs up the hud glass? (ala Metroid Prime effects?) I was interested int this idea at first...but the dropsuits we have in Dust aren't like space suits with helmets. In other words, our merc isn't looking through a face shield/glass Instead it's more like Ironman where there is a holo display inside the helmet, and that displays whatever the outside cameras are displaying. MCP replied about this a few pages back...another thing was balancing and making sure that certain effects won't have any ill effect on gameplay to make it unfair or not fun. Still, the cameras have to have some sort of shield cover or protection against the elements, so there's always the possibility. My favorite effect from the Metroid Prime games had to have been the way you'd see a flash of Samus' eyes reflecting in the visor when there was a bright light or when missiles hit near you. Either that or when you'd get hit with some sort of EMP blast that made you have to restart your suit system before you could get your HUD back. Talk about putting you in the game...immersion at its finest in those games for sure.
Thanks for the assist. Nailed it.
|
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5756
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 13:27:00 -
[229] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Any chances for interhud glass effects?
Like walking through a steam vent fogs up the hud glass? (ala Metroid Prime effects?) I was interested int this idea at first...but the dropsuits we have in Dust aren't like space suits with helmets. In other words, our merc isn't looking through a face shield/glass Instead it's more like Ironman where there is a holo display inside the helmet, and that displays whatever the outside cameras are displaying. MCP replied about this a few pages back...another thing was balancing and making sure that certain effects won't have any ill effect on gameplay to make it unfair or not fun. Still, the cameras have to have some sort of shield cover or protection against the elements, so there's always the possibility. My favorite effect from the Metroid Prime games had to have been the way you'd see a flash of Samus' eyes reflecting in the visor when there was a bright light or when missiles hit near you. Either that or when you'd get hit with some sort of EMP blast that made you have to restart your suit system before you could get your HUD back. Talk about putting you in the game...immersion at its finest in those games for sure. Thanks for the assist. Nailed it.
I personally wouldn't mind it. At first I was thinking, "It's cool but what's the functionality" and then I remembered how ridiculously OP the sun can be for one side of the map.
Useful Links
Aeon Amadi for CPM1
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15196
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 21:58:00 -
[230] - Quote
Of course; also issue of performance as well.
Metriod prime's effects I felt while nice where a bit too powerful for a multiplayer competitive environment.
However there been other games that have made the effects terrible
Namely the bleeding blood splatter and 'health bar'
Including dust 514's own repair aura.
Immersion details is just the sprinkles on top of the ice cream not the fudge ribbon.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
|
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
415
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 11:20:00 -
[231] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Of course; also issue of performance as well.
Metriod prime's effects I felt while nice where a bit too powerful for a multiplayer competitive environment.
However there been other games that have made the effects terrible
Namely the bleeding blood splatter and 'health bar'
Including dust 514's own repair aura.
Immersion details is just the sprinkles on top of the ice cream not the fudge ribbon.
Since we are on the topic of screen effects... I've posted a very early prototype of doing one. This is so early, you will see the 3D HUD is still mostly un-textured polygons (it was probably going through a makeover at that point). So please excuse the ugliness there, but I thought it would be cool to show off at least a little proof that this type of thing is possible. The fog effect is a translucent material (with a color of white). There is also a little bit of blurring going on, but the blur control has since been improved, so I know we could achieve an even more realistic effect here. Of course, as discussed, an effect like this is questionable if it really follows the fiction of the suits having screens and cameras. Still, the technique remains the same: visor mesh + shader with access to the screen texture.
http://youtu.be/-TUr4W9vOG4 |
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3486
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 12:52:00 -
[232] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:^_- Combine this sort of tactical viability through information gathering with a grid-map on the actual overhead and you've given the guys on the ground everything they need to effectively communicate in the same way that we would in the military. Can play into a whole new meta for effective squad leaders/commanders who can accurately read into the battlefield and provide that information effectively to their team. Congratulations, you just achieved everything Field Command leaders have been asking for. EDIT: Oh, right - on that note - if we do get a grid-layout for the map... Any chance you could include what grid we're in on our HUD? Just something simple, off in the corner or next to the compass to signify that I'm in G6 or where-ever. That way someone can tell me that "Enemy is at H7" and I know exactly where I need to be / how close they are, instantly Here's an example of what I'm trying to illustrate: http://i.imgur.com/ScbP8SX.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/k4m9amb.jpgANOTHER EDIT: Albeit in retrospect that may be rather difficult to accomplish. Your call though. I know they previously looked into a grid overlay on the overview map before, but they ran into issues with the terrain being in 3D and the UI being done in 2D Postprocess--this doesn't work well because the terrain has depth and the grid overlay is flat and above the terrain--it will not line up properly. It can be achieved if the grid is done in 3D. There is one shader technique where you can draw pixels only at the intersection points of polygons. I attempted a small prototype by adding some polygons that intersected with the terrain (they are huge), but the thickness of the 'line' changes too much with slope and distance, so we would still need to figure out a way to improve this (and there are ways). Another way this could be done is by building it into the material on the terrain and use WorldSpace mapping coordinates (basically you can use the x,y value as a texture coordinate). This seems better and I'm leaning more towards it (although the first technique would be useful if we wanted to show a scan effect going across the landscape). Still there is a roadblock in figuring out how to apply this grid material--we don't want to it as part of the terrain material all the time--some of the starmap work is requiring something similar, so I'm hopeful we can learn from that.
I am dealing with the same issue in real life, working with parcel boundaries projected onto oblique air photos. The lines get thick in your first approach for the same reason that slicing bread on an angle will give you a larger piece of toast. The second approach definitely will give you a better looking display. You just need to lay down those grids on the environment with invisible ink so they only show up under a black light (or at least the programmatic equivalent).
You realize that if you do that, then you would have the option of projecting the grid onto the HUD so that solders would see the grids as an overlay on the live environment, just as the other blue and red items are overlays. (Might want to make this an optional feature that can be turned on or off.)
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 17:39:00 -
[233] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:^_- Combine this sort of tactical viability through information gathering with a grid-map on the actual overhead and you've given the guys on the ground everything they need to effectively communicate in the same way that we would in the military. Can play into a whole new meta for effective squad leaders/commanders who can accurately read into the battlefield and provide that information effectively to their team. Congratulations, you just achieved everything Field Command leaders have been asking for. EDIT: Oh, right - on that note - if we do get a grid-layout for the map... Any chance you could include what grid we're in on our HUD? Just something simple, off in the corner or next to the compass to signify that I'm in G6 or where-ever. That way someone can tell me that "Enemy is at H7" and I know exactly where I need to be / how close they are, instantly Here's an example of what I'm trying to illustrate: http://i.imgur.com/ScbP8SX.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/k4m9amb.jpgANOTHER EDIT: Albeit in retrospect that may be rather difficult to accomplish. Your call though. I know they previously looked into a grid overlay on the overview map before, but they ran into issues with the terrain being in 3D and the UI being done in 2D Postprocess--this doesn't work well because the terrain has depth and the grid overlay is flat and above the terrain--it will not line up properly. It can be achieved if the grid is done in 3D. There is one shader technique where you can draw pixels only at the intersection points of polygons. I attempted a small prototype by adding some polygons that intersected with the terrain (they are huge), but the thickness of the 'line' changes too much with slope and distance, so we would still need to figure out a way to improve this (and there are ways). Another way this could be done is by building it into the material on the terrain and use WorldSpace mapping coordinates (basically you can use the x,y value as a texture coordinate). This seems better and I'm leaning more towards it (although the first technique would be useful if we wanted to show a scan effect going across the landscape). Still there is a roadblock in figuring out how to apply this grid material--we don't want to it as part of the terrain material all the time--some of the starmap work is requiring something similar, so I'm hopeful we can learn from that. If we can make certain our overlay map is placed mathematically correct, then it shouldn't be too hard to display what quadrant you are in. In fact, this could be completely done on the content side if the terrains always align to the same world space point (which I believe is true). In the material for the grid coordinate we just look up the world space coordinate and convert it to a grid coordinate--then we have a texture with each coordinate label in a grid (like a texture atlas), and we shift our mapping coordinates appropriately. Probably not too bad, but I'm simplifying the steps and might be missing something.
Could you give the player an option (maybe on the tactical map) to view the map in orthographic or perspective mode? In orthographic you could overlay a 3D grid over the map with no warping.
I personally think the radar/hopefully soon to be mini map, should always be orthographic.
For those who might not know,
"Orthographic projection (or orthogonal projection) is a means of representing a three-dimensional object in two dimensions."
Via http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_projection |
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5784
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 17:43:00 -
[234] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Of course; also issue of performance as well.
Metriod prime's effects I felt while nice where a bit too powerful for a multiplayer competitive environment.
However there been other games that have made the effects terrible
Namely the bleeding blood splatter and 'health bar'
Including dust 514's own repair aura.
Immersion details is just the sprinkles on top of the ice cream not the fudge ribbon. Since we are on the topic of screen effects... I've posted a very early prototype of doing one. This is so early, you will see the 3D HUD is still mostly un-textured polygons (it was probably going through a makeover at that point). So please excuse the ugliness there, but I thought it would be cool to show off at least a little proof that this type of thing is possible. The fog effect is a translucent material (with a color of white). There is also a little bit of blurring going on, but the blur control has since been improved, so I know we could achieve an even more realistic effect here. Of course, as discussed, an effect like this is questionable if it really follows the fiction of the suits having screens and cameras. Still, the technique remains the same: visor mesh + shader with access to the screen texture. http://youtu.be/-TUr4W9vOG4
Whaaaaaaat this makes me so giddy my sides hurt, I love it!!
All kind of possibilities open up with this
All of my +1's
Useful Links
Aeon Amadi for CPM1
|
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5784
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 17:44:00 -
[235] - Quote
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:^_- Combine this sort of tactical viability through information gathering with a grid-map on the actual overhead and you've given the guys on the ground everything they need to effectively communicate in the same way that we would in the military. Can play into a whole new meta for effective squad leaders/commanders who can accurately read into the battlefield and provide that information effectively to their team. Congratulations, you just achieved everything Field Command leaders have been asking for. EDIT: Oh, right - on that note - if we do get a grid-layout for the map... Any chance you could include what grid we're in on our HUD? Just something simple, off in the corner or next to the compass to signify that I'm in G6 or where-ever. That way someone can tell me that "Enemy is at H7" and I know exactly where I need to be / how close they are, instantly Here's an example of what I'm trying to illustrate: http://i.imgur.com/ScbP8SX.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/k4m9amb.jpgANOTHER EDIT: Albeit in retrospect that may be rather difficult to accomplish. Your call though. I know they previously looked into a grid overlay on the overview map before, but they ran into issues with the terrain being in 3D and the UI being done in 2D Postprocess--this doesn't work well because the terrain has depth and the grid overlay is flat and above the terrain--it will not line up properly. It can be achieved if the grid is done in 3D. There is one shader technique where you can draw pixels only at the intersection points of polygons. I attempted a small prototype by adding some polygons that intersected with the terrain (they are huge), but the thickness of the 'line' changes too much with slope and distance, so we would still need to figure out a way to improve this (and there are ways). Another way this could be done is by building it into the material on the terrain and use WorldSpace mapping coordinates (basically you can use the x,y value as a texture coordinate). This seems better and I'm leaning more towards it (although the first technique would be useful if we wanted to show a scan effect going across the landscape). Still there is a roadblock in figuring out how to apply this grid material--we don't want to it as part of the terrain material all the time--some of the starmap work is requiring something similar, so I'm hopeful we can learn from that. If we can make certain our overlay map is placed mathematically correct, then it shouldn't be too hard to display what quadrant you are in. In fact, this could be completely done on the content side if the terrains always align to the same world space point (which I believe is true). In the material for the grid coordinate we just look up the world space coordinate and convert it to a grid coordinate--then we have a texture with each coordinate label in a grid (like a texture atlas), and we shift our mapping coordinates appropriately. Probably not too bad, but I'm simplifying the steps and might be missing something. Could you give the player an option (maybe on the tactical map) to view the map in orthographic or perspective mode? In orthographic you could overlay a 3D grid over the map with no warping. I personally think the radar/hopefully soon to be mini map, should always be orthographic. For those who might not know, "Orthographic projection (or orthogonal projection) is a means of representing a three-dimensional object in two dimensions." Via http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_projection
Right right, this is what I had originally intended when proposing the suggestion. I do a lot of work in Blender (3D modeler similar to Maya) and work almost exclusively in Orthographic. Thanks for elaborating on this, I probably should have explained it better =P
Useful Links
Aeon Amadi for CPM1
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3465
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 17:44:00 -
[236] - Quote
On cold planets/battlegrounds the edges of the screen could get slightly frosted from being out in the cold wind. Hot temperatures could create a transparent distortion effect around the edges.
Maybe some sort of electrical effect when you get fluxed...or even graphical border/overlay that would make it easier to know when your shields are depleted, when they're recharging, and when you're taking shield damage. Right now, the main indicator is the glass shard sound effect...but if you're playing without sound you have to rely on just looking at your heath bar, whcih isn't as fun.
A lot of games have just a border effect that displays whenever your shields are getting hit, but there might be a way to do a full screen effect without making it take too much away from the gameplay.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
|
Aker Ghaal
Dead Man's Game
127
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 19:06:00 -
[237] - Quote
Ello Peanut!
I just wanted to chime in and say great work as of yet! It is pretty much the way I wanted to see you guys to proceed in terms of UI/HUD elements. Also cheers for the YouTube channel and the continued discussion and feedback you give us here in the community!
With that said, regarding a few points you have made considering racial HUDs/transitions and a few immersive UI elements. Could you guys over at the CCP give your points on my thread on UI elements, especially the idea of transitions and the removal of load times in between actions? LINK
Also start up sequences for dropsuits and vehicles would be a cool idea worth exploring. Check out this game for the xbox called Steel battalion and their startups. You might not need the startups to be as flashy as theirs but it would be nice idea for the removal of transitions: LINK
Whether or not you guys check it out I am happy just for the sake of the work your doing, I am interested in seeing more!
Keep up the good work!
Dust//HUD
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1916
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 19:36:00 -
[238] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Immersion details is just the sprinkles on top of the ice cream not the fudge ribbon.
I have to agree with IWS on this one. Having watched the video with the intense sun glare (thanks for sending those out; it is great to see that kind of stuff) I can say that it could be a pure detriment to the game if it is that intense. I think back not to games, like IWS did, but to movies. Effects like a slightly shaky image or blood/liquid hitting the camera can add great immersion to a scene in it being chaotic or frantic; it gives you the impression that you are there. However, when any effect is overdone it pushes it away from "Holy s*** this is frantic and intense" to "why the hell did they decide to do that?"
Some effects like light hitting the camera when the protagonist enters a room gives the idea that the audience is the protagonist if it is done via first person and done well. Now think of 2009's Star Trek with more lens flare and shiny surfaces than an overly lit Apple Store. Don't remember them? Here ya go!
Watching it in theater worked exactly like this. "Everything is shiny. Interesting." 30 minutes later. "Jesus, they really over did it." 30 minutes later. "Why did they do this?" At that moment, the audience is out of the experience because of an effect. Please be careful with any type of HUD effect. It is interesting when games can make you feel like it is you but going over the top hurts game play.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
421
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 01:06:00 -
[239] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
You realize that if you do that, then you would have the option of projecting the grid onto the HUD so that solders would see the grids as an overlay on the live environment, just as the other blue and red items are overlays. (Might want to make this an optional feature that can be turned on or off.)
since reading your post, I now realize that, and agree--this is a very smart way of handling it. I also know that the terrain shader is already quite complex and may not have room to support another texture sampler (there some limits to how many texture samplers you can have in a shader). But it is definitely worth mentioning. I was thinking in the overview map we could use a lighter weight version of the terrain shader if we needed to. They have a lot of really cool fine details that would never be visible from the overview.
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:Could you give the player an option (maybe on the tactical map) to view the map in orthographic or perspective mode? In orthographic you could overlay a 3D grid over the map with no warping. I personally think the radar/hopefully soon to be mini map, should always be orthographic. For those who might not know, "Orthographic projection (or orthogonal projection) is a means of representing a three-dimensional object in two dimensions." Via http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_projection
You are right--this is another way to do it. I don't know if we can set the camera in game to be orthographic, but you can definitely set the editor cameras to be orthographic, so the functionality does exist. There may be a visual issue with an orthographic look, though. But if we can set it up in game I'd say it is worth a try. I'll bring this up when/if we tackle the overview map.
Aker Ghaal wrote:Ello Peanut!
I just wanted to chime in and say great work as of yet! It is pretty much the way I wanted to see you guys to proceed in terms of UI/HUD elements. Also cheers for the YouTube channel and the continued discussion and feedback you give us here in the community! With that said, regarding a few points you have made considering racial HUDs/transitions and a few immersive UI elements. Could you guys over at the CCP give your points on my thread on UI elements, especially the idea of transitions and the removal of load times in between actions? LINKAlso start up sequences for dropsuits and vehicles would be a cool idea worth exploring. Check out this game for the xbox called Steel battalion and their startups. You might not need the startups to be as flashy as theirs but it would be nice idea for the removal of transitions: LINKWatch all of the ones in the play list to get an idea of the variety of startups that could be possible.
Whether or not you guys check it out I am happy just for the sake of the work your doing, I am interested in seeing more! Keep up the good work!
I actually saw your images before--someone linked them earlier in this thread. Very cool. It is so exciting to see you guys contributing. Also a boot sequence is much easier to do now since we have more control on the content side. We can create matinee sequences and trigger them with kismet events. In fact, the fog effect prototype I did would be a good example of something we could play in the boot-up sequence (the video you see is actually controlled with a matinee sequence).
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:
I have to agree with IWS on this one. Having watched the video with the intense sun glare (thanks for sending those out; it is great to see that kind of stuff) I can say that it could be a pure detriment to the game if it is that intense. I think back not to games, like IWS did, but to movies. Effects like a slightly shaky image or blood/liquid hitting the camera can add great immersion to a scene in it being chaotic or frantic; it gives you the impression that you are there. However, when any effect is overdone it pushes it away from "Holy s*** this is frantic and intense" to "why the hell did they decide to do that?"
Agreed--we do have to be careful about that. These effects are very much a game design call. Regarding extreme glares--we have some awareness of the pixels being rendering behind the HUD elements, so we could add some logic in there (in the shader), to say, make it darker when the background is super bright. I've only done a few experiments--it looks like it could work--there are a few ways to go about it actually, but it is a per pixel thing, so it can be a bit tricky to get an 'even' darkening
|
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8741
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 18:55:00 -
[240] - Quote
Any updates so far, Peanut?
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
|
|
Chesyre Armundsen
Thanes Of Dust
515
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 22:25:00 -
[241] - Quote
Just wanted to say keep up the great work everyone at CCP and in the community for the huge contribution to making Legion the next great step in immersive gaming.
Mihi gravato Deus - "Let God lay the burden on me!"
The Space Hippie
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
449
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 00:06:00 -
[242] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Any updates so far, Peanut?
Recently I have been more involved with the Starmap work so not a lot is happening related to the HUD. I've had a few conversations with the guys working on the Salvage stuff just so they are aware of the kinds of things we can do--I believe we will be able to do some cool things with the HUD here, but it is important they are aware of the way it works so they can expose the information in the right way for the HUD.
Outside of this I've been supporting CCP Photon as he works on integrating text rendering--this is a big next stuff for the 3D HUD--or 3D UI system. After this our goal is to implement a few 'simple' widgets in 3D, such as a label and text field. Currently we are using a lot of the work done on the Starmap as a guideline for how to 'organize' this. Although the difference is that the Starmap spawns every asset through code, where 3D UI elements will need to be able to be place by the artist. Although there could be a middle ground here, where the artist places sockets in a 'layout' and the UI system still spawns the appropriate actors at said sockets. This is very early thinking right now--still needs a few more conversations and maybe some experiments until we have a clearer picture. |
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8743
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 00:12:00 -
[243] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Any updates so far, Peanut? Recently I have been more involved with the Starmap work so not a lot is happening related to the HUD. I've had a few conversations with the guys working on the Salvage stuff just so they are aware of the kinds of things we can do--I believe we will be able to do some cool things with the HUD here, but it is important they are aware of the way it works so they can expose the information in the right way for the HUD. Outside of this I've been supporting CCP Photon as he works on integrating text rendering--this is a big next stuff for the 3D HUD--or 3D UI system. After this our goal is to implement a few 'simple' widgets in 3D, such as a label and text field. Currently we are using a lot of the work done on the Starmap as a guideline for how to 'organize' this. Although the difference is that the Starmap spawns every asset through code, where 3D UI elements will need to be able to be place by the artist. Although there could be a middle ground here, where the artist places sockets in a 'layout' and the UI system still spawns the appropriate actors at said sockets. This is very early thinking right now--still needs a few more conversations and maybe some experiments until we have a clearer picture.
I see. have you considered the Sensor Overlay created by Team Five O or least making a Legion version of it as part of the 3D HUD in conjunction with Salvaging? I see this as something very helpful so maybe if you can get in touch with Team Five O to see if it's possible to bring this feature over that would be great.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
|
CCP MC Peanut
C C P
C C P Alliance
451
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 03:11:00 -
[244] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Any updates so far, Peanut? Recently I have been more involved with the Starmap work so not a lot is happening related to the HUD. I've had a few conversations with the guys working on the Salvage stuff just so they are aware of the kinds of things we can do--I believe we will be able to do some cool things with the HUD here, but it is important they are aware of the way it works so they can expose the information in the right way for the HUD. Outside of this I've been supporting CCP Photon as he works on integrating text rendering--this is a big next stuff for the 3D HUD--or 3D UI system. After this our goal is to implement a few 'simple' widgets in 3D, such as a label and text field. Currently we are using a lot of the work done on the Starmap as a guideline for how to 'organize' this. Although the difference is that the Starmap spawns every asset through code, where 3D UI elements will need to be able to be place by the artist. Although there could be a middle ground here, where the artist places sockets in a 'layout' and the UI system still spawns the appropriate actors at said sockets. This is very early thinking right now--still needs a few more conversations and maybe some experiments until we have a clearer picture. I see. have you considered the Sensor Overlay created by Team Five O or least making a Legion version of it as part of the 3D HUD in conjunction with Salvaging? I see this as something very helpful so maybe if you can get in touch with Team Five O to see if it's possible to bring this feature over that would be great.
This is pretty cool and is definitely something we would want to look at incorporating if it fits with the design for the Salvage scanning mechanic. I know that this could be implemented as a 2D overlay, but it could also be done with rendering trickery. We could just create invisible meshes that are attached to other actors that should register on the scanner and then, on scan, make them visible(and render on top of everything). Then we don't really have any math to do. Also we could control the transparency based on distance if we wanted to account for a range of your scanner (and that range could vary). |
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8745
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 03:57:00 -
[245] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:CCP MC Peanut wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Any updates so far, Peanut? Recently I have been more involved with the Starmap work so not a lot is happening related to the HUD. I've had a few conversations with the guys working on the Salvage stuff just so they are aware of the kinds of things we can do--I believe we will be able to do some cool things with the HUD here, but it is important they are aware of the way it works so they can expose the information in the right way for the HUD. Outside of this I've been supporting CCP Photon as he works on integrating text rendering--this is a big next stuff for the 3D HUD--or 3D UI system. After this our goal is to implement a few 'simple' widgets in 3D, such as a label and text field. Currently we are using a lot of the work done on the Starmap as a guideline for how to 'organize' this. Although the difference is that the Starmap spawns every asset through code, where 3D UI elements will need to be able to be place by the artist. Although there could be a middle ground here, where the artist places sockets in a 'layout' and the UI system still spawns the appropriate actors at said sockets. This is very early thinking right now--still needs a few more conversations and maybe some experiments until we have a clearer picture. I see. have you considered the Sensor Overlay created by Team Five O or least making a Legion version of it as part of the 3D HUD in conjunction with Salvaging? I see this as something very helpful so maybe if you can get in touch with Team Five O to see if it's possible to bring this feature over that would be great. This is pretty cool and is definitely something we would want to look at incorporating if it fits with the design for the Salvage scanning mechanic. I know that this could be implemented as a 2D overlay, but it could also be done with rendering trickery. We could just create invisible meshes that are attached to other actors that should register on the scanner and then, on scan, make them visible(and render on top of everything). Then we don't really have any math to do. Also we could control the transparency based on distance if we wanted to account for a range of your scanner (and that range could vary).
Glad to know that you like it.
I like it also as I am a dedicated Eve player. I can also imagine how useful the sensor overlay might be for expanding on the New Player Experience and help guide those new players for the first part of their arrival to New Eden.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Ku Shala
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
941
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:36:00 -
[246] - Quote
will the mini map include any kind of cordinates xy style to pin point your location?
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä
Closed Beta ¦¦V¦¦e¦¦t ¦¦ H8R
Caldari Loyalist
|
Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Dark Taboo
544
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 04:31:00 -
[247] - Quote
CCP MC Peanut, are you still with us? |
Oceltot Mortalis
8
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 16:19:00 -
[248] - Quote
I have some ideas about stylizing the HUD, some have been mentioned, some are a little off the wall, but just trying to get this forum thread rolling again!
-Stylized HUD based on faction of Dropsuit being used (duh)
-Different animations for ammo consumption based on plasma, laser, rail, and projectile.
-HUD will start to glow hot/get steamy when weapon begins to over heat. (Don't care to look at the tiny bar in the middle of a firefight!)
-Cloaking removes HUD when activated (little nerf to the scout not being able to use scans)
-Fields of view being different for the classes of suit (AKA Heavies have tunnel vision, scouts have full view. **not even really sure about this one myself, but getting it out on the table**)
-just for fun, adding a start up/boot-up initialization animation when you first spawn (like the Iron man suit)
that's all I got for now, come back to us CCP MC Peanut!!!
In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it.
-everyone in EVE, ever
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8844
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 18:43:00 -
[249] - Quote
BOO!
Did I scare you with the bump? Good. :)
@CCP MC Peanut
Can you please tell the rest of your team to not do this again?
https://plus.google.com/u/0/117844085254813917843/posts/4wqmtYMz5af
Thank you.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
230
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 22:12:00 -
[250] - Quote
Keeping this thread alive...
We could very well do away with many cluttering icons in exchange for animations.
For example, get rid of the overheat bar, and make it where a weapon about to overheat slowly makes it harder to see on your screen. If the Scrambler overheats for example, your gun flashes violently, blinding you. You are unblended when your gun in no longer seized, as users don't need to see their gun seize and their enemy blasting them away.
For ammo, have the reading either on the side of the gun as in Ghost Recon Future Soldier, or actually as a reader on the gun, as in (This game is only used for reference, I hate it) Aliens: Colonial Marines.
The HUD should also be using icons. The Warbarge Strike should be a reading that lights up, and STAYS lit up. Squad Leads often miss its appearance in the midst of battle, and I swear sometimes I've gotten one and the reading never appears. The middle of the screen should be free to see hostiles, as well as the sides, and the icons hopefully could be placed on a grid like outline, similar to how Windows allows you to move shortcuts.
It'd be extremely cool as well if icons on our screen could almost be submenus, similar to the Iron Man Suit. When Tony looks or thinks of an icon, it activates. If the Warbarge Strike becomes available, it should pulse in the corner of your screen where it is. You double-tap( to avoid accidental presses) a single key if using a mouse/keyboard, and it drags you into the map screen, where a fine click can decimate your enemies.
Legion needs to be seamless. Movement-Combat-Teamwork/Tactics= Immersion, and the more flawless elements work together, the more I can get into Legion
:)
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
|
|
|
CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
RISE of LEGION
1260
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 18:11:00 -
[251] - Quote
Just because someone mentioned field of view... for the love of god CCP please increase the field of view or at least allow us to select our preference when it comes to field of view.
A simple slider bar ranging from say 70Deg. to like 100/110 Degrees would be awesome. Thanks :)
MY LIFE FOR AIUR! Protoss
You gonna' give me orders? Terran
"Cat got your tongue? Zerg Queen of Blades.
|
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
Legio DXIV
1408
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 21:57:00 -
[252] - Quote
why are the vids down?
My build
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8859
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 03:37:00 -
[253] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Just because someone mentioned field of view... for the love of god CCP please increase the field of view or at least allow us to select our preference when it comes to field of view.
A simple slider bar ranging from say 70Deg. to like 100/110 Degrees would be awesome. Thanks :)
Yes please.
This is highly important especially for us ninja knifers who have to constantly deal with tunnel vision in Dust. I have brought this issue up countless times before and I will bring it up again if I have to.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
255
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 03:44:00 -
[254] - Quote
Peanut is busy y'all most likely. i'M digging that field of vision idea, humans can see far more than 60 degrees, our futuristic drop suit should not see that narrow. Since we are having BPOs of suits, perhaps we could have different versions with different features. For example, one turns faster, but has only a small field of view
Another suit can make you see behind you if you press a certain key, but it turns very slowly, so you have to be preemptive.
Just some thoughts
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
16866
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 10:41:00 -
[255] - Quote
Lord Peanut!
How's it going?
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Enlist in XCOM
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9069
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 14:12:00 -
[256] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Lord Peanut!
How's it going?
He's very much likely to be busy. I actually prefer that he focuses on Legion for the time being.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
954
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 03:46:00 -
[257] - Quote
can we have the ability to customize the color of the hud like windows in eve on a suit to suit basis.
not racial, but a color mixer. black, orange, green, blue, red, white. Anything.
also being able to select and deselect what you want shown. you can remove radar on a class with low range if you feel you dont need it would be nice. or remove ammo counter from a fit with a scrambler rifle if you know you reload before you run out of ammo on a clip and little things like that.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: [one page] |