Which is why tieracide in Eve Online didn't occur until around 2012 even though Eve came out in 2003. When Eve was released, there were no dedicated Mining Barges or Exhumers, no Subcapitals to Super Capitals, no Tech 3 ships, no Tier 3 ships, etc. Basically almost half of the ships you see in Eve now didn't exist back then.

In order for Dust to have a practical tieracide, there will have to be more content to compensate. So far, we are severely limited. We don't have bubble shields, we don't have remote shield repariers, we don't have fighters, we don't have medium assault vehicles, we don't pilot suits, and we don't even have all the tanks/LAVs/Dropships for that matter. There is just too much missing to make effective tieracide at this stage.

Good post +1. Though it's spelled "Tiercide" ("tier" + "-cide") not "Teiricide"

Which is why tieracide in Eve Online didn't occur until around 2012 even though Eve came out in 2003. When Eve was released, there were no dedicated Mining Barges or Exhumers, no Subcapitals to Super Capitals, no Tech 3 ships, no Tier 3 ships, etc. Basically almost half of the ships you see in Eve now didn't exist back then.

In order for Dust to have a practical tieracide, there will have to be more content to compensate. So far, we are severely limited. We don't have bubble shields, we don't have remote shield repariers, we don't have fighters, we don't have medium assault vehicles, we don't pilot suits, and we don't even have all the tanks/LAVs/Dropships for that matter. There is just too much missing to make effective tieracide at this stage.

"Empowering player decisions and rewarding those decisions."

Just tell me that infantry side tiercide will be nothing like the tiercide that vehicles got in 1.7 and tiercide has my full support.

"Empowering player decisions and rewarding those decisions."

Actually, it should be tiericide. Like suicide, homicide, regicide, fratricide, etc. The I is the connector to the suffix meaning "to kill."

Which is why tieracide in Eve Online didn't occur until around 2012 even though Eve came out in 2003. When Eve was released, there were no dedicated Mining Barges or Exhumers, no Subcapitals to Super Capitals, no Tech 3 ships, no Tier 3 ships, etc. Basically almost half of the ships you see in Eve now didn't exist back then.

In order for Dust to have a practical tieracide, there will have to be more content to compensate. So far, we are severely limited. We don't have bubble shields, we don't have remote shield repariers, we don't have fighters, we don't have medium assault vehicles, we don't pilot suits, and we don't even have all the tanks/LAVs/Dropships for that matter. There is just too much missing to make effective tieracide at this stage.

I actually like what they did to vehicle modules, organizationally.

I wish there were more options for modules. but at a high level, I like what they did.
It made it much more straightforward to choose the style of vehicle you want to run, and then actually put it together.

(The OP-ness of assorted weaponry and modules is a completely separate issue.)

I call bull... yeah we dont have 46 variations of dropsuits yet but we could just as easily apply eve's tiercide mechanics to dust's dropsuits TODAY. On top of that, less labor is required to balance future assets as they are released. It is a win-win to tiercide dropsuits asap.

Exhumer's did not need supercaptial ships being released before tiercide made sense, and neither does existing dust assets need future assets before tiercide makes sense.

Tiercide today, less work tomorrow.

introduction/enforcement of roles.

You make it sound pretty nice but I worry that it will only dumb things down like it did for vehicles.

I can give you one clear example why tieraciding the Dust suits TODAY would be a bad idea.

Heavy weapons for Heavy suits. Or... lack of Heavy weapons I should say.

Right now we only have 2 (two) heavy weapons available. One is Caldari (I think) which is the forge gun and the other is Minmatar which is the HMG. The Amarr and Gallente variant is still not available. If CCP does the tieracide for all suits without the remaining the heavy weapons, then the tieracide will only be balanced around two weapons instead of all four for the heavy suits. This is not the way to go about balancing especially when you have to later waste more time rebalancing old weapons with new ones of the exact same class as they come in. The same can be said for nova knives. There is only one racial set and that is the Caldari Nova Knives. There are suppose to be three other racial knives coming later on. This will likely involve the scouts especially the Minmatar Scout since it's a Minmatar suit using a Caldari Knife (go figure).

Now, if you tieracide just the medium suits we'll have no problem since every light weapon and sidearm has finally been made available for every race. But then again all the heavy and scout players will feel left out if just the mediums get the tieracide.

Heres how it would work, as I imagine it:

Take the unbonused frame suits (light med and heavy) and keep the ADV as the new militia variants, none of which would require SP. The pro, you get to try out these suits, but they dont specialized, dont get any kind of bonus. basically, they are there for you to try out, find your playstyle before you commit SP.

Now, regular suits. All suits are to be replaced by their Proto equivilent. Example:

To unlock a minmatar Logi suit, you need to invest first in the Minmatar Dropsuit skill (this replaces the min light, med and heavy suit skills, SP sinks as they are). Different tiers of this skill unlock the different types of suit, similarly to todays dropsuit command skill, which I would remove. 1=Assault, 3=Scout,pilot, 5= sentinel, etc.

Minmatar Dropsuits 3 > Minmatar Logistics 1 = todays proto min logi.

Now, this suit will not be at its full potential, but you have the same amount of slots as everyone else and fitting. But, with the skill at just 1, you wont be as powerful, but you will be close. As you add more SP to the suit skill it gets better.

Caldari Dropsuits 5 > Caldari Commando 1 = todays proto Calcommando.

etc

TL;DR: all suits are now protosuits, SP just makes them better thru bonuses, nearly equalizing suits thru fitting, and not relying on "content = variety"

While i completely agree that matchmaking is broken, dividing matches based on gear to separate and highlight role performance is an invalid argument. I would also like to point out the phrase, "we would likely to see return to balance of power" is also completely false. In fact it is misleading, if we were to follow your argument the balanced based on tiers would actually increase the gap of power and not close it.

There is 0 truth to balance based upon gear, the only logical solution to matchmaking is a system which balances based upon skill level (average WP + SP of individual or if people are in a squad then the top 3 members or the squad).

I'll just leave this here...

Don't go too specific with this or you'll remove playstyles. A suit needs some fitting flexibility. Otherwise there's less of a point to the modules that a player decides to fit.

The more I talk with people who disagree the more I find out most are just confused to what tiericide would do and may be the source of their opposition against the idea.

Tiericide is not only the removal of teirs but introduction/enforcement of roles.

The problem with the current system is that
A < B on the simple grounds that B is A+1.

Under a more ideal tiericide system
A = B on the grounds that neither have anything better than the other in every way. Both do different things their own ways. Of course imperfection or needs of roles will skew the popularity between A and B the two can find competition in various performances.

Dust 514 however if a tericide where to happen we are likely to see a removal of power and a return to focus on roles.

Where

Assault Lineup
A [militia]< B [basic frame] < E [basic specialist] < C[adv frame] < F [adv specialist] < D [Proto Frame] < G [Proto Specialist]

Would likely turns into

An Assault suit that emphasizes the Assault Role and performs it well.

and developer time willing then

A second assault suit that may have a similar but different approach to the role in the same race. With possible third fourth and more as time goes on. In this environment no one assault suit is numerically just better because it's a tier 9 (current setup) but better because its closer to what the player wants to play as and has built his skills and fittings around that role strongly.

This would also mean majority of the new stats and the like may see a major shift away from the suits and may dump veterancy onto the skills instead; or maybe modules get a stronger emphasis or a mix of the two; it is up to ccp if and how they do the tiericide.

I am in support where the modules remain largely the same in line-up and may absorb more of the cost of the suit squash.

Other models includes a module squash; or a skill tree flourish (more RPG like) or mixes and focuses of each.

But I am open to hearing other possible models of role focus over power focus and of course any questions concerning how teiricide works and what it is supposed to do.

...

Concept level is overall the more important concept to sell to CCP though.
...
Also far as I am concerned; you can forget anything about gear restrictions. Those restraints if ever made are going to be constructs of players own design and tools; not the developers.

Approximate skill matching is something being looked into but gear will never be factored as a part of it.

I still don't get it and I still don't get what the point of SP is for except to then unlock more things laterally which to me makes Dust about as pointless as every other multiplayer FPS shooter out there in its current state.

What you have implicitly just stated there, is:

"CCP supports, and stands behind, protostomping. They like it, so it must always be protected".

In which case, what I have to say is,


"Screw you CCP, I'm out of here"

snip

I would rather see a kind of content progression that reinforces the Price-buys-power system that we have now. The extent to which losses are more guaranteed within PvP or to which power is less relavant in PvE will be the extent to which budgeting your suits, exploiting various resources within the game, building relationships that leverage your power, and studying and outmanuevering your opponent across the geography of the region will make the meta-progression outshine the current limitations of 'price-buys-power'.