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KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4740	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:47:00 - [1] - Quote CLOAKS are ok, everyone saying they are EZ mode, OP whatever are just salty they cannot see that 300-400HP player running from a mile away.,Its just sad you truly want to take this away from scouts. ''OMG you can switch weapons and shoot while cloaked?'' This is an exaggeration.IF you WATCH someone cloaked RUNNING towards you you will notice:While switching weapons the cloak already starts to fade, and not only while moving YOU ARE VISIBLE, but while switching weapons parts of your body will reveal BEFORE even being able to shoot.Sure not complete visibility,but still visible. Some people say this above, is the main issue: Sure then fix it, As soon as you PRESS the change to weapon button the cloak fades COMPLETELY. In exchange swapping speed from Cloak-to-weapon should be at least 50% faster. THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE NERF WOULD BE, IN MY HONEST opinion= A duration nerf. They last way too long. I think cloaks should have a duration reduction next to a recharge buff, something like this: STD: 15 Secs Duration 10 secs recharge ADV: 25 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge Proto: 35 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge This way the player will have to truly manage the cloak vs Recharge time in a smart way and still get the most out of it. opinions? Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
BARDAS Shining Flame Amarr Empire 985	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:52:00 - [2] - Quote Proposed duration for each is way to short. It would become tactically useless for what a lot of us use it for: namely shadowing opponents and striking when least expected, running across wide open terrain and then hacking a CRU or objective, and avoiding enemies all together. I think it is fine the way it is and I hope CCP doesn't bend to the QQ cry babies. They should suck it up like we did for the past year we have been virtually impotent in most cases.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution 193	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:53:00 - [3] - Quote I agree up to the point for the duration. I believe the duration is very good and doesn't really need a nerf. However I understand a little and you could nerf it a couple seconds say 25,45,65 for std,adv, proto, respectively. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4740	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:54:00 - [4] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Proposed duration for each is way to short. It would become tactically useless for what a lot of us use it for: namely shadowing opponents and striking when least expected, running across wide open terrain and then hacking a CRU or objective, and avoiding enemies all together. I think it is fine the way it is and I hope CCP doesn't bend to the QQ cry babies. They should suck it up like we did for the past year we have been virtually impotent in most cases. Well. im not SAYING THIS NEEDS a nerf. Just saying if something were to get touched this should be it. Nothing more. I use the ADV Cloak and im considering only using the STD one since i truly never need more than 10-15 seconds of invisibility. Although i must admit, that all those cloaked guys just running around thinking no one can see them its pretty funny... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 510	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:54:00 - [5] - Quote ahhh, no; as cloak would be useless at ~ all levels then; as cloaks wouldn't give you enough time to stalk an enemy or even retreat The problem with cloaks are: 1). "Invisible" firing & NK 2). Effectiveness Simple solutions: 1). Make cloak like in PS2, cant fire till fully uncloaked meaning 100% visible; which is around 1s; but its a instant appearance instead of "gradual" 2). Make the higher tier cloaks not only last long (don't mean increase duration, keep as it); but affect the shimmer. In sense, more shimmer on basic cloaks, etc; so skilling into the cloak is more then just duration. As this may also lessen the potency of miltia bpo shotty fittings w/ a basic cloak Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4740	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:55:00 - [6] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: I agree up to the point for the duration. I believe the duration is very good and doesn't really need a nerf. However I understand a little and you could nerf it a couple seconds say 25,45,65 for std,adv, proto, respectively. This is reasonable yes. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
BARDAS Shining Flame Amarr Empire 985	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:57:00 - [7] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: BARDAS wrote: Proposed duration for each is way to short. It would become tactically useless for what a lot of us use it for: namely shadowing opponents and striking when least expected, running across wide open terrain and then hacking a CRU or objective, and avoiding enemies all together. I think it is fine the way it is and I hope CCP doesn't bend to the QQ cry babies. They should suck it up like we did for the past year we have been virtually impotent in most cases. Well. im not SAYING THIS NEEDS a nerf. Just saying if something were to get touched this should be it. Nothing more. I use the ADV Cloak and im considering only using the STD one since i truly never need more than 10-15 seconds of invisibility. Although i must admit, that all those cloaked guys just running around thinking no one can see them its pretty funny... Yeah I only use the ADV Cloak as well. 1 Minute is long enough for me in most cases to stay invisible for almost the entire match and the Proto Cloak it too much of a resource hog to justify the extra time. And yes, the people running around cloaked who think they are invisible ARE pretty funny ... especially, the medium suits. Like dude even when you are standing still I can still see a Chevron above your head lmao...
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4740	Posted - 2014.04.01 05:00:00 - [8] - Quote BARDAS wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: BARDAS wrote: Proposed duration for each is way to short. It would become tactically useless for what a lot of us use it for: namely shadowing opponents and striking when least expected, running across wide open terrain and then hacking a CRU or objective, and avoiding enemies all together. I think it is fine the way it is and I hope CCP doesn't bend to the QQ cry babies. They should suck it up like we did for the past year we have been virtually impotent in most cases. Well. im not SAYING THIS NEEDS a nerf. Just saying if something were to get touched this should be it. Nothing more. I use the ADV Cloak and im considering only using the STD one since i truly never need more than 10-15 seconds of invisibility. Although i must admit, that all those cloaked guys just running around thinking no one can see them its pretty funny... Yeah I only use the ADV Cloak as well. 1 Minute is long enough for me in most cases to stay invisible for almost the entire match and the Proto Cloak it too much of a resource hog to justify the extra time. And yes, the people running around cloaked who think they are invisible ARE pretty funny ... especially, the medium suits. Like dude even when you are standing still I can still see a Chevron above your head lmao... Pretty much.They are standing still like: ''OMG Full EZ mode stealthy, so much power.'' With the FREAKN red triangle on top of their head. Dampening is needed to effectively use cloaks buddy XD @ Berserker. Those are really good ideas too. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 196	Posted - 2014.04.01 05:06:00 - [9] - Quote Yea, cloaks are easy mode or OP. If you want to watch youtube there are plenty of vids of NK users never de-cloaking, SG users never de-cloaking or de-cloaking after their second shot. Yea, right now that point is invalid. Scouts aren't suppose to be running towards you, again, cloaks just encourage poor gameplay because for the most part scouts get away with this tactic because it isn't always easy to see them. Changing weapon from cloaks should be 50% faster, are you kidding me?! The duration of a cloak is not the problem, neither is the amount of reflection. The problem is as you've probably seen, players who make bad decisions with a fragile suit (hacking, climbing, running across open spaces, taking on heavies, taking on multiple enemies, bad angles of attack, not closing fast enough, general map awareness) are being compensated for their poor play by simply equipping a cloak. Cloaks lower the risk that poor gameplay will punish a scout, and even goes as far to reward a scout impatience a, lack of strategy, and their inability to pick the right enemies to engage. So there is a very low risk, very high reward, and no drawbacks to a cloak, which by definition is overpowered. Furthermore, cloaks provide an offensive advantage to scouts who again are making poor choices and therefore do not deserve such an advantage. As you mentioned scouts are charging into battles, they do this because it is more successful than not and provide easy kills for bad players. It allows any skill level to get the drop on opponents without making informed and strategic decisions, and in some cases it is very hard to see a cloak (lag, poor frame rate issues, nanotubes blue hue covers them, some maps lighting, some maps have red/orange ash falling). Scouts didn't need such a crutch to be a viable option before cloaks, scouts did fine. Most struggled as a scout but it was due to their poor gameplay and refusal to be patient and skillful in their movement or target selections, so basically, cloaks are all good and reward gameplay which should never be rewarded or encouraged. Cloaks are not equal to other equipment, yet the advantage it provides is so great it can only be described as OP. Scouts had some hard times, and now that cloaks are easy mode the scout community is out in full force to defend their crutch. They all want to be slayers and do well and have good scores. This enjoyment only encourages their denial of the real strength and use of cloaks. No one is going to be objective when they are having this much fun. Scouts are a difficult class to dominate with, but not that difficult to excel at... There is a difference, and all scouts want to dominate with cloaks because they are selfish.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 196	Posted - 2014.04.01 05:08:00 - [10] - Quote Can i add, scouts never use to have an as range of a cloak, yet with skillful movement and gameplay they could get right next to you and kill you without you seeing them. So without a cloak there is more skill and tactics, and with a cloak there is just easy mode. By definition a cloak makes things very easy to accomplish from what you to require skill.. Yea they are easy mode. Take a seat.

The Eristic Sad Panda Solutions 333	Posted - 2014.04.01 05:17:00 - [11] - Quote Man, that guy ^ REALLY hates cloaks. A novella in every thread.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10208	Posted - 2014.04.01 05:20:00 - [12] - Quote I think for the most part the cloak is fine, even the duration. I do think their should be a more noticable noise from decloaking to alert nearby enemies when you decloak since right now there isn't much to alert you; this wouldn't make combat-cloakers, but would certainly emphasize that cloaks are more about getting around undetected than getting sneak kills. I also think the profile reduction bonus on cloaks is pointless. We already have profile damapeners to lower our profile, the profile reduction bonus basically makes you need less dampeners, and encourages brick-tanking scouts. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Repe Susi Rautaleijona 1129	Posted - 2014.04.01 05:40:00 - [13] - Quote Give them longer cooldown at least. It's funny how fast the cloak regenerates. And yes, I use the cloak. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ~ Isaac Asimov
mollerz 3133	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:10:00 - [14] - Quote Why change something just to change it. It's getting hot fixed and that should be enough. Sprint bug should be a priority. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
BARDAS Shining Flame Amarr Empire 992	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:12:00 - [15] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: GIANT WALL OF TEXT!!! Please show us on the doll where the mean Scout(s) touched you.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 979	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:13:00 - [16] - Quote Nerfing the cloak duration would all but destroy my LR flanking strategy. It takes time to set up a good flanking position time the cloak gives me. without a cloak i would literally be useless to my team for 25 percent of the match as i would have to go so far out of my way to not get spotted early that by the time i got in position the front would have changed and would need to find a new spot and so on. Plus nerfing the duration would do nothing for the (supposed) real problem of SG scouts as they dont need a lot of time to be cloaked to sneak up on people. edited for derpy word use Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando III Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 199	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:16:00 - [17] - Quote The Eristic wrote: Man, that guy ^ REALLY hates cloaks. A novella in every thread. In all honesty i love cloaks. I use a cloak in all three of my scout characters on each of their 3 builds. Cloaks add to my enjoyment, they make my gameplay better, they cover my mistakes so i die less and make more ISK. They are a mandatory equipment, and they are so much fun and they also make things like crossing open spaces take less time and require less thought. I'm not being sarcastic. I like my cloak, it helps me, its makes for better scores but in no way is it required/necessary or hpshouls be in game. It's an easy mode/crutch for when i make poor decisions. I am just trying to be objective. There nothing wrong with me going 20-2 proto stomping noobs, its fun, it's mostly enjoyable and its good SP/ISK and k/d rewards.. But in no way should my 17m SP char be matched up against my two 3m SP chars, but that's how things go. That's why the two things that make me mad are the terrible non-tier skill based matchmaking and these easy mode cloaks.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 200	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:23:00 - [18] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: GIANT WALL OF TEXT!!! Please show us on the doll where the mean Scout(s) touched you. Show me why cloaks are required when skillful play can result in a kill whereby the enemy doesn't see the scout because he used skillful movement, correct angles of attack, strategy, and patience to pick the right target to engage. Cloaks are new, scouts being excellent and it being seen is not. There's nothing wrong with loving cloaks, but objectively there are 15 things wrong with it and its only benefit is you don't have to be skilled to do well, and frankly thats garbage. People want to reduce duration, reduce the visibility or increase it, reduce the weapon swap time...etc but in all honest remove them, scouts will be fine and have done fine without cloaks in the past (and this was before they got a huge boost in 1.8). Hahaha and yes i write huge text blocks, which are detailed and argumentative in nature. But if you read them their points are strong, their arguments are valid. It's not my fault that scouts love easy mode, and when expressing their options in forums people are self interested and very few want fair, balanced gameplay. Edit: before 1.7 there were a lot of scouts who did fine, a lot didn't but now i see these pricks arguing for cloaks because all of a sudden they became good. They are unskilled and undeserving of such rewards. They got easy mode on and think this is acceptable and required. Selfish ******* bitches.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 980	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:24:00 - [19] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: The Eristic wrote: Man, that guy ^ REALLY hates cloaks. A novella in every thread. In all honesty i love cloaks. I use a cloak in all three of my scout characters on each of their 3 builds. Cloaks add to my enjoyment, they make my gameplay better, they cover my mistakes so i die less and make more ISK. They are a mandatory equipment, and they are so much fun and they also make things like crossing open spaces take less time and require less thought. I'm not being sarcastic. I like my cloak, it helps me, its makes for better scores but in no way is it required/necessary or hpshouls be in game. It's an easy mode/crutch for when i make poor decisions. I am just trying to be objective. There nothing wrong with me going 20-2 proto stomping noobs, its fun, it's mostly enjoyable and its good SP/ISK and k/d rewards.. But in no way should my 17m SP char be matched up against my two 3m SP chars, but that's how things go. That's why the two things that make me mad are the terrible non-tier skill based matchmaking and these easy mode cloaks. Nothin personal be there is really only one subset of scouts "abusing" cloak and that would be the SG scout. Those of us who don't run SG actually need it. I run LR scout and the cloak lets me get into a rear flanking position to confuse the enemy and assassinate what I think are key targets. Without the cloak I would have to waste most of the match trying to get into said flanking position. Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando III Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 200	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:27:00 - [20] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: The Eristic wrote: Man, that guy ^ REALLY hates cloaks. A novella in every thread. In all honesty i love cloaks. I use a cloak in all three of my scout characters on each of their 3 builds. Cloaks add to my enjoyment, they make my gameplay better, they cover my mistakes so i die less and make more ISK. They are a mandatory equipment, and they are so much fun and they also make things like crossing open spaces take less time and require less thought. I'm not being sarcastic. I like my cloak, it helps me, its makes for better scores but in no way is it required/necessary or hpshouls be in game. It's an easy mode/crutch for when i make poor decisions. I am just trying to be objective. There nothing wrong with me going 20-2 proto stomping noobs, its fun, it's mostly enjoyable and its good SP/ISK and k/d rewards.. But in no way should my 17m SP char be matched up against my two 3m SP chars, but that's how things go. That's why the two things that make me mad are the terrible non-tier skill based matchmaking and these easy mode cloaks. Nothin personal be there is really only one subset of scouts "abusing" cloak and that would be the SG scout. Those of us who don't run SG actually need it. I run LR scout and the cloak lets me get into a rear flanking position to confuse the enemy and assassinate what I think are key targets. Without the cloak I would have to waste most of the match trying to get into said flanking position. Anyone who used a cloaks abuses the benefits it provides. There is nothing wrong with SG, bricked tanks, speed scouts, stealth scouts there is something wrong with cloaks. People like to argue get good and shoot them, how about you get good and stop relying on your crutch for your scores. I saw your 1.7 scores, they sucked.. You didn't get good overnight, oh thats right you got a cloak.

Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 521	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:29:00 - [21] - Quote I personally would be happy if cloaks had a hard and fast decloak when switching from cloak to anything else. It is a bit frustrating to be shot by an invisible foe that is standing inside my pereferal vision.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7747	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:32:00 - [22] - Quote The Eristic wrote: Man, that guy ^ REALLY hates cloaks. A novella in every thread. Does it have to be in Spanish if it's a Novella? Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 863	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:41:00 - [23] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I also think the profile reduction bonus on cloaks is pointless. We already have profile damapeners to lower our profile, the profile reduction bonus basically makes you need less dampeners, and encourages brick-tanking scouts. Agreed on this, +1 If God had wanted you to live, he would not have created me!
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 982	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:41:00 - [24] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: The Eristic wrote: Man, that guy ^ REALLY hates cloaks. A novella in every thread. In all honesty i love cloaks. I use a cloak in all three of my scout characters on each of their 3 builds. Cloaks add to my enjoyment, they make my gameplay better, they cover my mistakes so i die less and make more ISK. They are a mandatory equipment, and they are so much fun and they also make things like crossing open spaces take less time and require less thought. I'm not being sarcastic. I like my cloak, it helps me, its makes for better scores but in no way is it required/necessary or hpshouls be in game. It's an easy mode/crutch for when i make poor decisions. I am just trying to be objective. There nothing wrong with me going 20-2 proto stomping noobs, its fun, it's mostly enjoyable and its good SP/ISK and k/d rewards.. But in no way should my 17m SP char be matched up against my two 3m SP chars, but that's how things go. That's why the two things that make me mad are the terrible non-tier skill based matchmaking and these easy mode cloaks. Nothin personal be there is really only one subset of scouts "abusing" cloak and that would be the SG scout. Those of us who don't run SG actually need it. I run LR scout and the cloak lets me get into a rear flanking position to confuse the enemy and assassinate what I think are key targets. Without the cloak I would have to waste most of the match trying to get into said flanking position. Anyone who used a cloaks abuses the benefits it provides. There is nothing wrong with SG, bricked tanks, speed scouts, stealth scouts there is something wrong with cloaks. People like to argue get good and shoot them, how about you get good and stop relying on your crutch for your scores. I saw your 1.7 scores, they sucked.. You didn't get good overnight, oh thats right you got a cloak. LOL first of all I wanna know where you got my stats as it would be neat to not be ingame to see em. Second of all you seem awfully butthurt about the cloaks. I simply said I don't wanna have to hug the red line to flank with my scout. But you know what you keep being a bitter little sh*t who doesn't know how to adapt to a constantly changing game and I'll keep on enjoying my cloaking Amarr LR scout Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando III Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
The Eristic Sad Panda Solutions 335	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:43:00 - [25] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The Eristic wrote: Man, that guy ^ REALLY hates cloaks. A novella in every thread. Does it have to be in Spanish if it's a Novella? Italian, actually! But, no.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4756	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:44:00 - [26] - Quote Cotsy, you're the ONLY ONE saying that Scouts NEED a cloak and arguing that people are claiming they SHOULD need a cloak. Your argument against those imaginary people WOULD be valid if that was actually the counter-argument people were using to your failure at logic when complaining about cloaks. Fortunately for the game though, that ISN'T the argument people are using, and if it WAS being used, it's not the ONLY argument against you. There are plenty of VALID reasons why you're wrong as well. I've already explained them in this thread and many others, and still have yet to see you counter any of the VALID points ANYONE has made when defending the usefulness and the not-broken-ness of cloaks. You're complaining that cloaks let you get away with things you shouldn't - THEY ONLY DO THAT WHEN THE ENEMY SCREWS UP. If the enemy is competent, YOU GET SEEN AND KILLED. It's not that you aren't getting punished for mistakes - a skilled player WILL punish you. The "problem" is that now Scouts can punish OTHER PEOPLE for making mistakes as well. Guess what? THAT ISN'T A PROBLEM, IT'S A SOLUTION.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 817	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:49:00 - [27] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: CLOAKS are ok, everyone saying they are EZ mode, OP whatever are just salty they cannot see that 300-400HP player running from a mile away.,Its just sad you truly want to take this away from scouts. ''OMG you can switch weapons and shoot while cloaked?'' This is an exaggeration.IF you WATCH someone cloaked RUNNING towards you you will notice:While switching weapons the cloak already starts to fade, and not only while moving YOU ARE VISIBLE, but while switching weapons parts of your body will reveal BEFORE even being able to shoot.Sure not complete visibility,but still visible. Some people say this above, is the main issue: Sure then fix it, As soon as you PRESS the change to weapon button the cloak fades COMPLETELY. In exchange swapping speed from Cloak-to-weapon should be at least 50% faster. THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE NERF WOULD BE, IN MY HONEST opinion= A duration nerf. They last way too long. I think cloaks should have a duration reduction next to a recharge buff, something like this: STD: 15 Secs Duration 10 secs recharge ADV: 25 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge Proto: 35 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge This way the player will have to truly manage the cloak vs Recharge time in a smart way and still get the most out of it. AGAIN ,i AM NOT PROPOSING A NERF for the Cloaking devices. Me myself find them ok. Would be OP if while standing still i get to be 100% invisible but since its not the case and one can be seen with a little caution(and while sprinting you need to be blind to not see a cloaked enemy) , they are not. opinions? Stopped reading at super short durations Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
jerrmy12 kahoalii 817	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:51:00 - [28] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I also think the profile reduction bonus on cloaks is pointless. We already have profile damapeners to lower our profile, the profile reduction bonus basically makes you need less dampeners, and encourages brick-tanking scouts. Agreed on this, +1 But then cal scouts will be crap Unless they get a oow alot buff....at adv. Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 523	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:56:00 - [29] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: CLOAKS are ok, everyone saying they are EZ mode, OP whatever are just salty they cannot see that 300-400HP player running from a mile away.,Its just sad you truly want to take this away from scouts. ''OMG you can switch weapons and shoot while cloaked?'' This is an exaggeration.IF you WATCH someone cloaked RUNNING towards you you will notice:While switching weapons the cloak already starts to fade, and not only while moving YOU ARE VISIBLE, but while switching weapons parts of your body will reveal BEFORE even being able to shoot.Sure not complete visibility,but still visible. Some people say this above, is the main issue: Sure then fix it, As soon as you PRESS the change to weapon button the cloak fades COMPLETELY. In exchange swapping speed from Cloak-to-weapon should be at least 50% faster. THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE NERF WOULD BE, IN MY HONEST opinion= A duration nerf. They last way too long. I think cloaks should have a duration reduction next to a recharge buff, something like this: STD: 15 Secs Duration 10 secs recharge ADV: 25 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge Proto: 35 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge This way the player will have to truly manage the cloak vs Recharge time in a smart way and still get the most out of it. AGAIN ,i AM NOT PROPOSING A NERF for the Cloaking devices. Me myself find them ok. Would be OP if while standing still i get to be 100% invisible but since its not the case and one can be seen with a little caution(and while sprinting you need to be blind to not see a cloaked enemy) , they are not. opinions? Cloaks should make your scan profile larger, not smaller. Ok so basically, there should be a trade-off. You fit plates, you loose speed, you fit shields, you loose shield delay, you equip a cloak....... well there is only upside to fitting a cloak. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
jerrmy12 kahoalii 817	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:58:00 - [30] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: CLOAKS are ok, everyone saying they are EZ mode, OP whatever are just salty they cannot see that 300-400HP player running from a mile away.,Its just sad you truly want to take this away from scouts. ''OMG you can switch weapons and shoot while cloaked?'' This is an exaggeration.IF you WATCH someone cloaked RUNNING towards you you will notice:While switching weapons the cloak already starts to fade, and not only while moving YOU ARE VISIBLE, but while switching weapons parts of your body will reveal BEFORE even being able to shoot.Sure not complete visibility,but still visible. Some people say this above, is the main issue: Sure then fix it, As soon as you PRESS the change to weapon button the cloak fades COMPLETELY. In exchange swapping speed from Cloak-to-weapon should be at least 50% faster. THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE NERF WOULD BE, IN MY HONEST opinion= A duration nerf. They last way too long. I think cloaks should have a duration reduction next to a recharge buff, something like this: STD: 15 Secs Duration 10 secs recharge ADV: 25 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge Proto: 35 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge This way the player will have to truly manage the cloak vs Recharge time in a smart way and still get the most out of it. AGAIN ,i AM NOT PROPOSING A NERF for the Cloaking devices. Me myself find them ok. Would be OP if while standing still i get to be 100% invisible but since its not the case and one can be seen with a little caution(and while sprinting you need to be blind to not see a cloaked enemy) , they are not. opinions? Cloaks should make your scan profile larger, not smaller. HAHAHA HAHAHA ... Oh excuse me I died laughing Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears

Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 984	Posted - 2014.04.01 07:00:00 - [31] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: CLOAKS are ok, everyone saying they are EZ mode, OP whatever are just salty they cannot see that 300-400HP player running from a mile away.,Its just sad you truly want to take this away from scouts. ''OMG you can switch weapons and shoot while cloaked?'' This is an exaggeration.IF you WATCH someone cloaked RUNNING towards you you will notice:While switching weapons the cloak already starts to fade, and not only while moving YOU ARE VISIBLE, but while switching weapons parts of your body will reveal BEFORE even being able to shoot.Sure not complete visibility,but still visible. Some people say this above, is the main issue: Sure then fix it, As soon as you PRESS the change to weapon button the cloak fades COMPLETELY. In exchange swapping speed from Cloak-to-weapon should be at least 50% faster. THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE NERF WOULD BE, IN MY HONEST opinion= A duration nerf. They last way too long. I think cloaks should have a duration reduction next to a recharge buff, something like this: STD: 15 Secs Duration 10 secs recharge ADV: 25 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge Proto: 35 Secs Duration 15 Secs Charge This way the player will have to truly manage the cloak vs Recharge time in a smart way and still get the most out of it. AGAIN ,i AM NOT PROPOSING A NERF for the Cloaking devices. Me myself find them ok. Would be OP if while standing still i get to be 100% invisible but since its not the case and one can be seen with a little caution(and while sprinting you need to be blind to not see a cloaked enemy) , they are not. opinions? Cloaks should make your scan profile larger, not smaller. Ok so basically, there should be a trade-off. You fit plates, you loose speed, you fit shields, you loose shield delay, you equip a cloak....... well there is only upside to fitting a cloak. Where is the trade off for ALL THE OTHER EQUIPMENT! Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando III Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Yan Darn Science For Death 474	Posted - 2014.04.01 07:15:00 - [32] - Quote Ok this is going to be turgidly brief (EDIT: Maybe not...), cause I'm tired of posting similar things in every thread (Like Cotsy). - fix the cloak/shoot issue by making sure any action that would deactivate cloak result in the R1 manual deactivation animation. There, no fussing about timers and such. - don't touch anything else till this issue is fixed. And reassess the QQ. I mean it's not even been a whole week, the community is (surprisingly) smart and adaptable, but cloaks are a very distinct new factor in the game, so give people an actual chance to adapt/htfu first? - as others have mentioned, scouts lacking low slots are relying on cloaks for the dampening bonus as much as anything else. - Name one other role bonus (not racial) that is tied to one specific Item. While I personally think it was a mistake to tie scouts to cloak so intimately, we are stuck with it. If scouts don't use cloaks, we don't have a role bonus - lets not have this ridiculous QQ - nerf - QQ - buff cycle. Lets face it, some people will always hate cloaks for what they are. Fine - to those people, just be honest and argue to have them removed from the game, not nerfed into uselessness. The Ghost of Bravo
Jimmy McNaulty NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 50	Posted - 2014.04.01 10:41:00 - [33] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Cloaks should make your scan profile larger, not smaller. Ok so basically, there should be a trade-off. You fit plates, you loose speed, you fit shields, you loose shield delay, you equip a cloak....... well there is only upside to fitting a cloak. The trade off is that if you don't invest 2.4 mil SP into one scout then you are sacrificing a heck of a lot of CPU/PG.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4744	Posted - 2014.04.02 23:30:00 - [34] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: GIANT WALL OF TEXT!!! Please show us on the doll where the mean Scout(s) touched you. Cotsy8 is officially in my ''IGNORE/Do not take seriously'' list . SPECIALLY if its the same Cotsy from the Unholy LoD i saw playing yesterday, and went negative one game, and 8-6 vs KEQ and then has the balls to call me a noob...LOL (I went 19-1 vs the KEQ dudes,got in late AND my only death was an OB.) Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2365	Posted - 2014.04.02 23:41:00 - [35] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: CLOAKS are ok, everyone saying they are EZ mode, OP whatever are just salty they cannot see that 300-400HP player running from a mile away.,Its just sad you truly want to take this away from scouts. ''OMG you can switch weapons and shoot while cloaked?'' This is an exaggeration.IF you WATCH someone cloaked RUNNING towards you you will notice:While switching weapons the cloak already starts to fade, and not only while moving YOU ARE VISIBLE, but while switching weapons parts of your body will reveal BEFORE even being able to shoot.Sure not complete visibility,but still visible. Most of the people moaning and QQing about cloaks is because they lack Situational Awerness and overall lack serious teamwork. If you are in a squad, a scout is a LOT less likely to attack you. If you actually use your 2 eyes, you can see EVERY single cloaked enemy there is, people are just lazy and want everything done for them. Less than 20mts aways a cloaked enemy is visible, even while standing still.People just dont want to have to pay attention.... After reading several comments i have to agree with KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf. His solution to cloaks is a lot more sensitive. The cloak could use: GÖª removal of 25% dampening while cloaked GÖª an audible noise when decloaking GÇó This way its ever HARDER to abuse by NON scout suits that can achieve higher levels of HP. GÇó This way even if not 100% decloaked, while swiching weapons the enemy can hear the decloaking sound and have a better chance to defend themselves. (sorry about the mispellings,will correct later) opinions? There is an audiable noise while decloaking, problem is you are dead by the time you hear it. We aren't salty about an actual scout taking advantage of momentary lapse of concentration, we are salty about getting shot before you decloak, that's all. The simple solution the animation when you manually turn off the cloak is compulsory even when switching weapons. If you truly are a good scout me seeing you at 8m as opposed to 5m shouldn't make a difference to you. There is no need to remove cloaked dampening that just hurts everyone involved. Just make so you can't fire before you finish decloaking and everyone will be happy. Except the KDR chasers, but that is what we want to achieve. If thats not enough for you, I could instead suggest that we bring back the shooting under cloak penalty had originally proposed, but was denied because the community didn't want people shooting while only partially visible, Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Marc Rime 358	Posted - 2014.04.02 23:41:00 - [36] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: GÖª an audible noise when decloaking Doesn't that exist already? Since cloaking muffles sound I can't really tell when using it myself, but I remember thinking "what was that sound, could it be someone cloaking or de-cloaking?" in a few cases before some scout shot me.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4745	Posted - 2014.04.02 23:48:00 - [37] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: There is an audiable noise while decloaking, problem is you are dead by the time you hear it. We aren't salty about an actual scout taking advantage of momentary lapse of concentration, we are salty about getting shot before you decloak, that's all. The simple solution the animation when you manually turn off the cloak is compulsory even when switching weapons. If you truly are a good scout me seeing you at 8m as opposed to 5m shouldn't make a difference to you. There is no need to remove cloaked dampening that just hurts everyone involved. Just make so you can't fire before you finish decloaking and everyone will be happy. Except the KDR chasers, but that is what we want to achieve. If thats not enough for you, I could instead suggest that we bring back the shooting under cloak penalty had originally proposed, but was denied because the community didn't want people shooting while only partially visible, ''There is an audiable noise while decloaking, problem is you are dead by the time you hear it.'' EXACTLY, this noise should be louder than the current one AND will make sound AS SOON as the player hits the button to decloak, so if you are cloaked and switch weapon to decloak and attack,BEFORE you can even press the R1 button ,the noise will have been heard. its just an idea , dont be too mad at me. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4816	Posted - 2014.04.03 02:57:00 - [38] - Quote The sound DOES play before the cloaker has their weapon out. The ACTUAL problem is that it's too easily drowned out by pretty much every other sound in the entire game. It's loud enough for the cloaker to hear when they decloak, but it's WAY too quiet for everyone else. It's too easy to miss, and it gets overridden by other sounds when a lot is going on at once. Fix that, and all the other "problems" with the cloak.... aren't really problems and people just need to adapt to them.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 980	Posted - 2014.04.03 03:19:00 - [39] - Quote The decloak noise is fine so long as it's not 'to be heard by everyone in the area' as is suggested by shayz in a different thread. Decloaking should be audible only within up to 10 meters. Alternatively there should be different kinds of cloaks too for different play styles. Don't want to push any ideas unless there is interest in and ppl have good suggestions. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Seigfried Warheit Caught Me With My Pants Down 287	Posted - 2014.04.03 03:22:00 - [40] - Quote I saw you the other day with your cloaky scout....you killed me rather violently but I felt satisfied killing you while you were cloaked

medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 500	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:04:00 - [41] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''OMG you can switch weapons and shoot while cloaked?'' This is an exaggeration.IF you WATCH someone cloaked RUNNING towards you you will notice:While switching weapons the cloak already starts to fade, and not only while moving YOU ARE VISIBLE, but while switching weapons parts of your body will reveal BEFORE even being able to shoot.Sure not complete visibility,but still visible. From personal observations, I can say with a 100% certainty that cloaked players can fire a couple of rounds before actually de-cloaking. Two nights ago, I killed a cloaked enemy scout who was firing on me, the scout did not de-cloak until after I killed him. People don't often acknowledge just how big a deal this really is. Combine this broken mechanic with nova knifes, shotguns, plasma cannon, or the OP combat rifle and your opponent is dead before you actually de-cloak. A mechanic needs to be created to hinder cloaks for being spotted and fired upon. This mechanic should not be too harsh in order to avoid punishing the cloaked player for getting hit by a stray bullet. Iron Wolf Saber went over this topic in his own thread. Cloaks are ALMOST perfect. They need a LITTLE more work. And it's funny how people overzealously disagree when told that. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4822	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:20:00 - [42] - Quote medomai grey wrote: From personal observations, I can say with a 100% certainty that cloaked players can fire a couple of rounds before completely de-cloaking. Two nights ago, I killed a cloaked enemy scout who was firing on me, the scout did not finish de-cloaking until after I killed him. People don't often acknowledge just how ~~big~~small a deal this really is. Combine this ~~broken~~ mechanic with nova knifes, shotguns, plasma cannon, or the OP combat rifle and your opponent is dead before you ~~actually~~finish de-cloaking. ANo mechanic needs to be created to hinder cloaks for being spotted and fired upon. ~~This mechanic should not be too harsh in order to avoid punishing the cloaked player for getting hit by a stray bullet. Iron Wolf Saber went over this topic in his own thread.~~ There is already the fact that the cloaker is visible and the shield flash effect when taking fire makes them an easier target for anyone else looking in the general direction of having them on-screen. Cloaks are ALMOST perfect. They need a LITTLE more work. And it's funny how people overzealously ~~disagree when told~~try to hard-nerf the cloak even while admitting that. Fixed that for you.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4764	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:24:00 - [43] - Quote medomai grey wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''OMG you can switch weapons and shoot while cloaked?'' This is an exaggeration.IF you WATCH someone cloaked RUNNING towards you you will notice:While switching weapons the cloak already starts to fade, and not only while moving YOU ARE VISIBLE, but while switching weapons parts of your body will reveal BEFORE even being able to shoot.Sure not complete visibility,but still visible. From personal observations, I can say with a 100% certainty that cloaked players can fire a couple of rounds before actually de-cloaking. Two nights ago, I killed a cloaked enemy scout who was firing on me, the scout did not de-cloak until after I killed him. People don't often acknowledge just how big a deal this really is. Combine this broken mechanic with nova knifes, shotguns, plasma cannon, or the OP combat rifle and your opponent is dead before you actually de-cloak. A mechanic needs to be created to hinder cloaks for being spotted and fired upon. This mechanic should not be too harsh in order to avoid punishing the cloaked player for getting hit by a stray bullet. Iron Wolf Saber went over this topic in his own thread. Cloaks are ALMOST perfect. They need a LITTLE more work. And it's funny how people overzealously disagree when told that. I ALSO MUST ADMIT, i've only played 1.8 for two days, all that i say is from experience either ME using the cloak or people trying to use the cloak offensively against me. Now, if you are 100 sure that is the case, then maybe it should be fixed. No arguing there. CLOAKS are Fine, stop the QQ and get your awareness and game , UP.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 501	Posted - 2014.04.03 05:58:00 - [44] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: medomai grey wrote: From personal observations, I can say with a 100% certainty that cloaked players can fire a couple of rounds before completely de-cloaking. Two nights ago, I killed a cloaked enemy scout who was firing on me, the scout did not finish de-cloaking until after I killed him. People don't often acknowledge just how ~~big~~small a deal this really is. Combine this ~~broken~~ mechanic with nova knifes, shotguns, plasma cannon, or the OP combat rifle and your opponent is dead before you ~~actually~~finish de-cloaking. ANo mechanic needs to be created to hinder cloaks for being spotted and fired upon. ~~This mechanic should not be too harsh in order to avoid punishing the cloaked player for getting hit by a stray bullet. Iron Wolf Saber went over this topic in his own thread.~~ There is already the fact that the cloaker is visible and the shield flash effect when taking fire makes them an easier target for anyone else looking in the general direction of having them on-screen. Cloaks are ALMOST perfect. They need a LITTLE more work. And it's funny how people overzealously ~~disagree when told~~try to hard-nerf the cloak even while admitting that. Fixed that for you. Fixed? Really? It looks like you shoved a bunch of words in my mouth; your words to be exact. They taste like rainbows incase you were wondering. munch I don't even understand why your so against the idea of having to actually fully de-cloak before shooting. If you properly snuck up on your target, they wont even notice you anyway. And you claim that it's a small deal for you, so why do you care? The suggestions I shared can hardly be considered a hard-nerf as they don't effect players who are properly sneaking around with cloaks; only the cloaked idiots who rush their targets from the front would be adversely affected.Please explain how cloaks would be ruined forever if my suggestions were implemented? Do go on. Because if you can't, you are the perfect example of someone overzealously disagreeing to the point were you ignore logic and debate. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )*
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4823	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:10:00 - [45] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Fixed? Really? It looks like you shoved a bunch of words in my mouth; your words to be exact. They taste like rainbows incase you were wondering. munch +1 just for the part about rainbows. That was awesome. And when I said I "fixed" it, I wasn't meaning for you to think I was ascribing those words to you, I was using the edits to show the parts where you are factually incorrect. Quote:* I don't even understand why your so against the idea of having to actually fully de-cloak before shooting. If you properly snuck up on your target, they wont even notice you anyway. And you claim that it's a small deal for you, so why do you care? People are making a big deal of claiming that cloaked players are shooting while still FULLY cloaked when that isn't correct. The cloak is already visibly fading - for the victim as well as the user - before the first shot can be fired. You're not fully visible, but you're more visible than you were before you disabled the cloak and started the decloaking animation. The nerf which SHOULD happen is a volume increase on the decloak sound - which ALSO plays before you have your weapon out and ready to fire. What I called a "small deal" was the fact that an enemy who opened fire on your first died before they finished decloaking. It's not actually a problem, so it doesn't need a solution. It's not a big deal and you directly (and erroneously) stated that it was. Quote: The suggestions I shared can hardly be considered a hard-nerf as they don't effect players who are properly sneaking around with cloaks; only the cloaked idiots who rush their targets from the front would be adversely affected.Please explain how cloaks would be ruined forever if my suggestions were implemented? Do go on. Because if you can't, you are the perfect example of someone overzealously disagreeing to the point were you ignore logic and debate. I'm not saying it's a hard nerf in the sense of being game-breaking. I'm saying it's more of a nerf than the cloak really needs, because it's already pretty much balanced as it should be, and reducing its effectiveness as much as you're suggesting would weaken it MORE than needed to fix the problem.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:11:00 - [46] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I ALSO MUST ADMIT, i've only played 1.8 for two days, all that i say is from experience either ME using the cloak or people trying to use the cloak offensively against me. Now, if you are 100 sure that is the case, then maybe it should be fixed. No arguing there. When I first started to notice it, I had my doubts; maybe the game malfunctioned, perhaps I'm getting old and my brain is delaying the information, perhaps I'm butt-hurt, etc.. But after my experience with that cloaked scout I mentioned, I was certain that cloaked players can fire their weapon before de-cloaking. Unfortunately I don't have the recording hardware to prove this is the case. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4823	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:22:00 - [47] - Quote medomai grey wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I ALSO MUST ADMIT, i've only played 1.8 for two days, all that i say is from experience either ME using the cloak or people trying to use the cloak offensively against me. Now, if you are 100 sure that is the case, then maybe it should be fixed. No arguing there. When I first started to notice it, I had my doubts; maybe the game malfunctioned, perhaps I'm getting old and my brain is delaying the information, perhaps I'm butt-hurt, etc.. But after my experience with that cloaked scout I mentioned, I was certain that cloaked players can fire their weapon before de-cloaking. Unfortunately I don't have the recording hardware to prove this is the case. It's possible that what you saw was a glitched cloaker. There are a couple of exploits by which a player can get themselves locked into a cloaked state without a time limit and with their weapon drawn. In that case, firing the weapon will begin the decloak animation. Since this is an already-identified bug and in the process of being corrected, though, I wasn't actually factoring it into the discussion. I consider identified bugs not to be valid in balance arguments, and I sometimes forget about them during balance arguments because of that. Probably should have thought about it earlier and mentioned it as a possible explanation for what you saw.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:29:00 - [48] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: To long to quote. Fair enough. The jury is still deciding on the "facts" for some of us. I have a suspicion that it has to do with the difference in what a player sees and what another player observes about that player in game. Again, I don't have the hardware to prove this. The important thing we both acknowledge that there is a problem and it needs small fixes. Too big of a fix will break cloaks, and we want to avoid this also. And yes, rainbows are awesome. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 209	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:30:00 - [49] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ahhh, no; as cloak would be useless at ~ all levels then; as cloaks wouldn't give you enough time to stalk an enemy or even retreat The problem with cloaks are: 1). "Invisible" firing & NK 2). Effectiveness Simple solutions: 1). Make cloak like in PS2, cant fire till fully uncloaked meaning 100% visible; which is around 1s; but its a instant appearance instead of "gradual" 2). Make the higher tier cloaks not only last long (don't mean increase duration, keep as it); but affect the shimmer. In sense, more shimmer on basic cloaks, etc; so skilling into the cloak is more then just duration. As this may also lessen the potency of miltia bpo shotty fittings w/ a basic cloak Instead of a nerf you propose a good big fix that nerfs only the broken part plus a reasonable buff? +1 like and cookies.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 503	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:31:00 - [50] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: medomai grey wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I ALSO MUST ADMIT, i've only played 1.8 for two days, all that i say is from experience either ME using the cloak or people trying to use the cloak offensively against me. Now, if you are 100 sure that is the case, then maybe it should be fixed. No arguing there. When I first started to notice it, I had my doubts; maybe the game malfunctioned, perhaps I'm getting old and my brain is delaying the information, perhaps I'm butt-hurt, etc.. But after my experience with that cloaked scout I mentioned, I was certain that cloaked players can fire their weapon before de-cloaking. Unfortunately I don't have the recording hardware to prove this is the case. It's possible that what you saw was a glitched cloaker. There are a couple of exploits by which a player can get themselves locked into a cloaked state without a time limit and with their weapon drawn. In that case, firing the weapon will begin the decloak animation. Since this is an already-identified bug and in the process of being corrected, though, I wasn't actually factoring it into the discussion. I consider identified bugs not to be valid in balance arguments, and I sometimes forget about them during balance arguments because of that. Probably should have thought about it earlier and mentioned it as a possible explanation for what you saw. Supposedly CCP just fixed this bug before my engagement with the scout occurred. But there is also the possibility that they did not fix the bug completely. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4824	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:42:00 - [51] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Supposedly CCP just fixed this bug before my engagement with the scout occurred. But there is also the possibility that they did not fix the bug completely. I know they've fixed one method of triggering the bug, but there are a couple of others. CCP have been advised of at least one other that I know for sure.


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