DUST Search - CLOAKS

medomai grey wrote:

From personal observations, I can say with a 100% certainty that cloaked players can fire a couple of rounds before completely de-cloaking. Two nights ago, I killed a cloaked enemy scout who was firing on me, the scout did not finish de-cloaking until after I killed him. People don't often acknowledge just how ~~big~~small a deal this really is. Combine this ~~broken~~ mechanic with nova knifes, shotguns, plasma cannon, or the OP combat rifle and your opponent is dead before you ~~actually~~finish de-cloaking.

ANo mechanic needs to be created to hinder cloaks for being spotted and fired upon. ~~This mechanic should not be too harsh in order to avoid punishing the cloaked player for getting hit by a stray bullet. Iron Wolf Saber went over this topic in his own thread.~~ There is already the fact that the cloaker is visible and the shield flash effect when taking fire makes them an easier target for anyone else looking in the general direction of having them on-screen.

Cloaks are ALMOST perfect. They need a LITTLE more work. And it's funny how people overzealously ~~disagree when told~~try to hard-nerf the cloak even while admitting that. Straight


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4756	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:44:00 - [1] - Quote Cotsy, you're the ONLY ONE saying that Scouts NEED a cloak and arguing that people are claiming they SHOULD need a cloak. Your argument against those imaginary people WOULD be valid if that was actually the counter-argument people were using to your failure at logic when complaining about cloaks. Fortunately for the game though, that ISN'T the argument people are using, and if it WAS being used, it's not the ONLY argument against you. There are plenty of VALID reasons why you're wrong as well. I've already explained them in this thread and many others, and still have yet to see you counter any of the VALID points ANYONE has made when defending the usefulness and the not-broken-ness of cloaks. You're complaining that cloaks let you get away with things you shouldn't - THEY ONLY DO THAT WHEN THE ENEMY SCREWS UP. If the enemy is competent, YOU GET SEEN AND KILLED. It's not that you aren't getting punished for mistakes - a skilled player WILL punish you. The "problem" is that now Scouts can punish OTHER PEOPLE for making mistakes as well. Guess what? THAT ISN'T A PROBLEM, IT'S A SOLUTION.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4816	Posted - 2014.04.03 02:57:00 - [2] - Quote The sound DOES play before the cloaker has their weapon out. The ACTUAL problem is that it's too easily drowned out by pretty much every other sound in the entire game. It's loud enough for the cloaker to hear when they decloak, but it's WAY too quiet for everyone else. It's too easy to miss, and it gets overridden by other sounds when a lot is going on at once. Fix that, and all the other "problems" with the cloak.... aren't really problems and people just need to adapt to them.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4822	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:20:00 - [3] - Quote medomai grey wrote: From personal observations, I can say with a 100% certainty that cloaked players can fire a couple of rounds before completely de-cloaking. Two nights ago, I killed a cloaked enemy scout who was firing on me, the scout did not finish de-cloaking until after I killed him. People don't often acknowledge just how ~~big~~small a deal this really is. Combine this ~~broken~~ mechanic with nova knifes, shotguns, plasma cannon, or the OP combat rifle and your opponent is dead before you ~~actually~~finish de-cloaking. ANo mechanic needs to be created to hinder cloaks for being spotted and fired upon. ~~This mechanic should not be too harsh in order to avoid punishing the cloaked player for getting hit by a stray bullet. Iron Wolf Saber went over this topic in his own thread.~~ There is already the fact that the cloaker is visible and the shield flash effect when taking fire makes them an easier target for anyone else looking in the general direction of having them on-screen. Cloaks are ALMOST perfect. They need a LITTLE more work. And it's funny how people overzealously ~~disagree when told~~try to hard-nerf the cloak even while admitting that. Fixed that for you.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4823	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:10:00 - [4] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Fixed? Really? It looks like you shoved a bunch of words in my mouth; your words to be exact. They taste like rainbows incase you were wondering. munch +1 just for the part about rainbows. That was awesome. And when I said I "fixed" it, I wasn't meaning for you to think I was ascribing those words to you, I was using the edits to show the parts where you are factually incorrect. Quote:* I don't even understand why your so against the idea of having to actually fully de-cloak before shooting. If you properly snuck up on your target, they wont even notice you anyway. And you claim that it's a small deal for you, so why do you care? People are making a big deal of claiming that cloaked players are shooting while still FULLY cloaked when that isn't correct. The cloak is already visibly fading - for the victim as well as the user - before the first shot can be fired. You're not fully visible, but you're more visible than you were before you disabled the cloak and started the decloaking animation. The nerf which SHOULD happen is a volume increase on the decloak sound - which ALSO plays before you have your weapon out and ready to fire. What I called a "small deal" was the fact that an enemy who opened fire on your first died before they finished decloaking. It's not actually a problem, so it doesn't need a solution. It's not a big deal and you directly (and erroneously) stated that it was. Quote: The suggestions I shared can hardly be considered a hard-nerf as they don't effect players who are properly sneaking around with cloaks; only the cloaked idiots who rush their targets from the front would be adversely affected.Please explain how cloaks would be ruined forever if my suggestions were implemented? Do go on. Because if you can't, you are the perfect example of someone overzealously disagreeing to the point were you ignore logic and debate. I'm not saying it's a hard nerf in the sense of being game-breaking. I'm saying it's more of a nerf than the cloak really needs, because it's already pretty much balanced as it should be, and reducing its effectiveness as much as you're suggesting would weaken it MORE than needed to fix the problem.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4823	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:22:00 - [5] - Quote medomai grey wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I ALSO MUST ADMIT, i've only played 1.8 for two days, all that i say is from experience either ME using the cloak or people trying to use the cloak offensively against me. Now, if you are 100 sure that is the case, then maybe it should be fixed. No arguing there. When I first started to notice it, I had my doubts; maybe the game malfunctioned, perhaps I'm getting old and my brain is delaying the information, perhaps I'm butt-hurt, etc.. But after my experience with that cloaked scout I mentioned, I was certain that cloaked players can fire their weapon before de-cloaking. Unfortunately I don't have the recording hardware to prove this is the case. It's possible that what you saw was a glitched cloaker. There are a couple of exploits by which a player can get themselves locked into a cloaked state without a time limit and with their weapon drawn. In that case, firing the weapon will begin the decloak animation. Since this is an already-identified bug and in the process of being corrected, though, I wasn't actually factoring it into the discussion. I consider identified bugs not to be valid in balance arguments, and I sometimes forget about them during balance arguments because of that. Probably should have thought about it earlier and mentioned it as a possible explanation for what you saw.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4824	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:42:00 - [6] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Supposedly CCP just fixed this bug before my engagement with the scout occurred. But there is also the possibility that they did not fix the bug completely. I know they've fixed one method of triggering the bug, but there are a couple of others. CCP have been advised of at least one other that I know for sure.