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Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3135	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:21:00 - [1] - Quote Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits Intelligence is OP
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 2107	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:24:00 - [2] - Quote Qq Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
jerrmy12 kahoalii 762	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:28:00 - [3] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits I knew it, shield vehicles are worse than useless again. Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 894	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:30:00 - [4] - Quote dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
jerrmy12 kahoalii 762	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:31:00 - [5] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day Nope Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3137	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:32:00 - [6] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not Intelligence is OP
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3137	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:33:00 - [7] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits I knew it, shield vehicles are worse than useless again. Yea it seems to be Armor has the passive going for it which generally cant be stopped where as with shield you do have to wait a few Im still trying to play and muck about but im sorta deleting all my tank fits and remaking again Intelligence is OP
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 894	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:36:00 - [8] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not More then enough to: A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is B)get out of range C)block LOS with cover I see no problem with AV doing it job... Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
jerrmy12 kahoalii 762	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:37:00 - [9] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits I knew it, shield vehicles are worse than useless again. Yea it seems to be Armor has the passive going for it which generally cant be stopped where as with shield you do have to wait a few Im still trying to play and muck about but im sorta deleting all my tank fits and remaking again Yea the whole point in shields is faster regen but now they are useless I havent bothered to use my python aince the hotfix, all they had to do was make it 1 hard per vehicle and 1 armor rep oer vehicle or a penelty... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
jerrmy12 kahoalii 762	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:38:00 - [10] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not More then enough to: A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is B)get out of range C)block LOS with cover I see no problem with AV doing it job... Ok then nerf armor hard and make it so reps dont work under fire Balance If this is gunna go on reduce swarm damage to 200 Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3142	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:39:00 - [11] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not More then enough to: A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is B)get out of range C)block LOS with cover I see no problem with AV doing it job... Maybe be but the main strength of a shield tank is its resistance to explosive weapons, it really no longer has that resistance because it cant stick around to really do anything, it either means a 3/2 hardener fit which infantry still complain about or not much else Where as i could pull out an armor tank and generally stay there all day with a few fits Intelligence is OP
jerrmy12 kahoalii 763	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:41:00 - [12] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not More then enough to: A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is B)get out of range C)block LOS with cover I see no problem with AV doing it job... Maybe be but the main strength of a shield tank is its resistance to explosive weapons, it really no longer has that resistance because it cant stick around to really do anything, it either means a 3/2 hardener fit which infantry still complain about or not much else Where as i could pull out an armor tank and generally stay there all day with a few fits If a blaster stops regen, im running double hards all day Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN 857	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:43:00 - [13] - Quote A hit from an Anti-Vehicle weapon is supposed to stop shield regen on vehicles; it's only Anti-Infantry weapons that aren't supposed to stop it. I don't see any infantry that run Caldari suits complaining about shots from the SMG stopping their shield regen; their suits aren't worthless or worse than useless as Jermy said and they are worse off than tanks to begin with. I'd tell you to HTFU and quit whining but that would something actually less than useless to tell you Taka. Edit Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Maybe be but the main strength of a shield tank is its resistance to explosive weapons, it really no longer has that resistance because it cant stick around to really do anything, it either means a 3/2 hardener fit which infantry still complain about or not much else Where as i could pull out an armor tank and generally stay there all day with a few fits Uhm, that's the point of each tank. The shield tank is meant to be a hit & run tank while the armor tank is supposed to stick around for a little bit; CCP said so themselves. Support Orbital Spawns
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 897	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:44:00 - [14] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not More then enough to: A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is B)get out of range C)block LOS with cover I see no problem with AV doing it job... Ok then nerf armor hard and make it so reps dont work under fire Balance If this is gunna go on reduce swarm damage to 200 I fully agree with you and to be honest the armor reppers on vehicles are f*ckin ridiculous I would LOVE to get that kinda healing percentage on my dropsuit. In my opinion reppers on tanks should like reppers on dropsuit something to help pick you up a bit after a fight but not something that should get you to full in the time it takes to reload a swarm or FG. They should be required to have a logi running with a vehicle repper to get even close to the reps they have now... Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3142	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:44:00 - [15] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits I knew it, shield vehicles are worse than useless again. Yea it seems to be Armor has the passive going for it which generally cant be stopped where as with shield you do have to wait a few Im still trying to play and muck about but im sorta deleting all my tank fits and remaking again Yea the whole point in shields is faster regen but now they are useless I havent bothered to use my python aince the hotfix, all they had to do was make it 1 hard per vehicle and 1 armor rep oer vehicle or a penelty... Python i still like, i just end up hovering at 301m more often I will always disagree with hardener stacking and same with reps, in EVE i can fit how i want but with DUST i feel like im getting pidgeon holed into doing stuff like with logi suits, cant use owt else on a amarr logi because its gimped and the bonus is for uplinks plus your kicking the sand out of my sandbox I would have tiered the mods myself but then again im a fan of copy and pasting everything from EVE to DUST, skills mods the lot Intelligence is OP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6240	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:45:00 - [16] - Quote I'll let Vitharr do the work on this one. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3142	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:45:00 - [17] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not More then enough to: A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is B)get out of range C)block LOS with cover I see no problem with AV doing it job... Maybe be but the main strength of a shield tank is its resistance to explosive weapons, it really no longer has that resistance because it cant stick around to really do anything, it either means a 3/2 hardener fit which infantry still complain about or not much else Where as i could pull out an armor tank and generally stay there all day with a few fits If a blaster stops regen, im running double hards all day Not sure on that one 105 the std blaster its what i use the most, it shouldnt really Intelligence is OP
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2610	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:46:00 - [18] - Quote Oh look another tanker who is upset that his godmode crutch has beeing taken away. How about instead of running 3 hardeners you put a shield extender on your tank? Oh wait you are used to easy mode tanking. Pathetic. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
jerrmy12 kahoalii 763	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:47:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: I'll let Vitharr do the work on this one. Hes already bad I think Shields should rep under fire but not out rep the damage, as its ridiculous shields have low hp and are meant to regen but now they cant... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
jerrmy12 kahoalii 763	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:48:00 - [20] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Oh look another tanker who is upset that his godmode crutch has beeing taken away. How about instead of running 3 hardeners you put a shield extender on your tank? Oh wait you are used to easy mode tanking. Pathetic. You obviously havent read anything Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3143	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:49:00 - [21] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: A hit from an Anti-Vehicle weapon is supposed to stop shield regen on vehicles; it's only Anti-Infantry weapons that aren't supposed to stop it. I don't see any infantry that run Caldari suits complaining about shots from the SMG stopping their shield regen; their suits aren't worthless or worse than useless as Jermy said and they are worse off than tanks to begin with. I'd tell you to HTFU and quit whining but that would something actually less than useless to tell you Taka. Even tho that it is anti vehicle 1 missile never had the power to stop regen and this was because it only does 80% damage and a 60% hardener then added on top So if it did 100dmg the resistance to shield made it do 80dmg then the hardener on top made it do 48 So the question is how can something stop regen if its only doing half of its original damage Come to think of it can a MD stop the regen? Intelligence is OP
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2610	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:50:00 - [22] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Oh look another tanker who is upset that his godmode crutch has beeing taken away. How about instead of running 3 hardeners you put a shield extender on your tank? Oh wait you are used to easy mode tanking. Pathetic. You obviously havent read anything Ive read enough to understand that he doesnt want to get hurt by swarms. Hardeners are supposed to REDUCE damage not neglect 100% of it like it did previously. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
jerrmy12 kahoalii 765	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:51:00 - [23] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Oh look another tanker who is upset that his godmode crutch has beeing taken away. How about instead of running 3 hardeners you put a shield extender on your tank? Oh wait you are used to easy mode tanking. Pathetic. You obviously havent read anything Ive read enough to understand that he doesnt want to get hurt by swarms. Hardeners are supposed to REDUCE damage not neglect 100% of it like it did previously. Shields need to rep under fire but not out rep Now edit your posta Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3143	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:52:00 - [24] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Oh look another tanker who is upset that his godmode crutch has beeing taken away. How about instead of running 3 hardeners you put a shield extender on your tank? Oh wait you are used to easy mode tanking. Pathetic. This coming from a swarm user who used to sit on towers all day Also i dont run 3 hardeners Funny thing is tho after the hotfix i might have to, instead of driving us away from mulitple hardeners you have forced us to use multiple hardeners Go infantry Intelligence is OP
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2286	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:52:00 - [25] - Quote So let me get this straight you are complaing that a single volley of swarms means your tank stop shields regenerating? Lets do a little comparison. Assault Rifle at 10% efficency hits for 2 damage (there about) stops regen on infantry: no problems Swarms hit for upwards of 500 dmg, over 1/10th of your tanks total EHP: why can't I regen through this? Shield Regenration is for BETWEEN engagments not during engagements. The fact that you are annoyed you can't rep through an AV weapon just tells us everything we need to know. I don't want to, die, please, I don't want to die to infantry, anything but infantry. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 900	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:54:00 - [26] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: I'll let Vitharr do the work on this one. Hes already bad I think Shields should rep under fire but not out rep the damage, as its ridiculous shields have low hp and are meant to regen but now they cant... So my dropsuit shield should also rep under fire then? You want something with STAYING POWER get an armor tank... I'm bad eh I'm not the one trying to play a skirmisher like it's a brawler. I understand MY equipment's limitations, do you understand YOURS? Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 607	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:54:00 - [27] - Quote This is the way it should have been from the beginning. It is an anti-vehicle weapon that is dedicated entirely to the act of countering vehicles, there's no reason a hardener should go on to not only decrease damage taken by weaponry but NEGATE it as well. As Judge said, "Waves of Opportunity" does NOT mean god mode, and that's what hardeners represented for this class of anti-vehicle weaponry. Saga v. Methana Balance
jerrmy12 kahoalii 765	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:54:00 - [28] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So let me get this straight you are complaing that a single volley of swarms means your tank stop shields regenerating? Lets do a little comparison. Assault Rifle at 10% efficency hits for 2 damage (there about) stops regen on infantry: no problems Swarms hit for upwards of 500 dmg, over 1/10th of your tanks total EHP: why can't I regen through this? Shield Regenration is for BETWEEN engagments not during engagements. The fact that you are annoyed you can't rep through an AV weapon just tells us everything we need to know. I don't want to, die, please, I don't want to die to infantry, anything but infantry. Exept for vehicles armor always has more reps and shields are low Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2610	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:55:00 - [29] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Oh look another tanker who is upset that his godmode crutch has beeing taken away. How about instead of running 3 hardeners you put a shield extender on your tank? Oh wait you are used to easy mode tanking. Pathetic. This coming from a swarm user who used to sit on towers all day Also i dont run 3 hardeners Funny thing is tho after the hotfix i might have to, instead of driving us away from mulitple hardeners you have forced us to use multiple hardeners Go infantry So what? every 1 did that so lul. These days i run around with a cloaked scout and swarms to ambush tankers. Works fine cause i can evade histile infantry and i start engaging the tank when i want to not the other way around. And if you cant kill a swarmer while having hardeners on then you seriously suck at tanking. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
jerrmy12 kahoalii 765	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:56:00 - [30] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: This is the way it should have been from the beginning. It is an anti-vehicle weapon that is dedicated entirely to the act of countering vehicles, there's no reason a hardener should go on to not only decrease damage taken by weaponry but NEGATE it as well. As Judge said, "Waves of Opportunity" does NOT mean god mode, and that's what hardeners represented for this class of anti-vehicle weaponry. Exept because this fix the shield vehicles can no longer hit and run, niw its get hit, activate hard and run, regening while getting shot by an ANTI ARMOR weapon was the only was shields survived Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3143	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:56:00 - [31] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So let me get this straight you are complaing that a single volley of swarms means your tank stop shields regenerating? Lets do a little comparison. Assault Rifle at 10% efficency hits for 2 damage (there about) stops regen on infantry: no problems Swarms hit for upwards of 500 dmg, over 1/10th of your tanks total EHP: why can't I regen through this? Shield Regenration is for BETWEEN engagments not during engagements. The fact that you are annoyed you can't rep through an AV weapon just tells us everything we need to know. I don't want to, die, please, I don't want to die to infantry, anything but infantry. I play EVE, EVE have vehicles, DUST has vehicles Now i have armor ships in EVE which dont passively rep back armor, they are either buffer or active rep fit we had this in pre 1.7 and even back in chromo Also in EVE any ship has passive shield regen now in DUST this is not the case for whatever reason but also i cant even increase my passive shield rep rate in DUST for my vehicles They have it the wrong way around and the hardener nerf just shows it more when a basic swarm 1 volley instantly stops regen even tho its only just doing over half of its full damage Intelligence is OP
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 903	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:59:00 - [32] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not More then enough to: A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is B)get out of range C)block LOS with cover I see no problem with AV doing it job... Ok then nerf armor hard and make it so reps dont work under fire Balance If this is gunna go on reduce swarm damage to 200 I fully agree with you and to be honest the armor reppers on vehicles are f*ckin ridiculous I would LOVE to get that kinda healing percentage on my dropsuit. In my opinion reppers on tanks should like reppers on dropsuit something to help pick you up a bit after a fight but not something that should get you to full in the time it takes to reload a swarm or FG. They should be required to have a logi running with a vehicle repper to get even close to the reps they have now... Just in case you missed it while angrily spewing you tanker bias Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Bro-metheus Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 80	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:59:00 - [33] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits Pretty sure forgegun does more dmg to armor...
jerrmy12 kahoalii 767	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:00:00 - [34] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not More then enough to: A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is B)get out of range C)block LOS with cover I see no problem with AV doing it job... Ok then nerf armor hard and make it so reps dont work under fire Balance If this is gunna go on reduce swarm damage to 200 I fully agree with you and to be honest the armor reppers on vehicles are f*ckin ridiculous I would LOVE to get that kinda healing percentage on my dropsuit. In my opinion reppers on tanks should like reppers on dropsuit something to help pick you up a bit after a fight but not something that should get you to full in the time it takes to reload a swarm or FG. They should be required to have a logi running with a vehicle repper to get even close to the reps they have now... Just in case you missed it while angrily spewing you tanker bias[/quote] Yes I saw it and im not biased at all Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3145	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:01:00 - [35] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: This is the way it should have been from the beginning. It is an anti-vehicle weapon that is dedicated entirely to the act of countering vehicles, there's no reason a hardener should go on to not only decrease damage taken by weaponry but NEGATE it as well. As Judge said, "Waves of Opportunity" does NOT mean god mode, and that's what hardeners represented for this class of anti-vehicle weaponry. How it really should have been is how it is in EVE tbh In EVE i can create passive fits which do negate the enemies damage, but in DUST thats OP and i cant even do that if i wanted to anyways But now il spend more time running than being in the thick of it for 30seconds for example, but if basic swarms can do what im seeing then the outcome isnt good for every other weapon and turret and it seems that maddys can deal a bit better than logis now Intelligence is OP
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3145	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:02:00 - [36] - Quote Bro-metheus wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits Pretty sure forgegun does more dmg to armor... 90% to shield - 1105 to armor but FG still hurts like hell Intelligence is OP
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 609	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:02:00 - [37] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: This is the way it should have been from the beginning. It is an anti-vehicle weapon that is dedicated entirely to the act of countering vehicles, there's no reason a hardener should go on to not only decrease damage taken by weaponry but NEGATE it as well. As Judge said, "Waves of Opportunity" does NOT mean god mode, and that's what hardeners represented for this class of anti-vehicle weaponry. Exept because this fix the shield vehicles can no longer hit and run, niw its get hit, activate hard and run, regening while getting shot by an ANTI ARMOR weapon was the only was shields survived Have you seen the damage taken by Swarms while hardeners were on? It's a seriously paltry amount, they do significantly less damage to shields from the outset and then do even less when hardeners are added to the equation. Swarms up until Proto still do laughably low damage and you have more than enough time to respond to their being launched - you have audio cues! And remember that this change applies to more than just one class of vehicle, now Swarmers can actually drive away a triple hardened Python that could sit there and absorb all Swarm Launcher damage indefinitely. Saga v. Methana Balance
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 903	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:04:00 - [38] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Yes I saw it and im not biased at all Then instead of trying to get godmode back shouldnt you be trying to bring armor tanks into balance you know because you aren't biased Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
jerrmy12 kahoalii 767	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:05:00 - [39] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: This is the way it should have been from the beginning. It is an anti-vehicle weapon that is dedicated entirely to the act of countering vehicles, there's no reason a hardener should go on to not only decrease damage taken by weaponry but NEGATE it as well. As Judge said, "Waves of Opportunity" does NOT mean god mode, and that's what hardeners represented for this class of anti-vehicle weaponry. Exept because this fix the shield vehicles can no longer hit and run, niw its get hit, activate hard and run, regening while getting shot by an ANTI ARMOR weapon was the only was shields survived Have you seen the damage taken by Swarms while hardeners were on? It's a seriously paltry amount, they do significantly less damage to shields from the outset and then do even less when hardeners are added to the equation. Swarms up until Proto still do laughably low damage and you have more than enough time to respond to their being launched - you have audio cues! And remember that this change applies to more than just one class of vehicle, now Swarmers can actually drive away a triple hardened Python that could sit there and absorb all Swarm Launcher damage indefinitely. Why cant you infantry retards not balance on multiple hardebers, now im running 2 or 3 hards on my python, and good its a pure anti armor it shoukd barely do damage to a hardenered SHIELD vehicle, but hardeners were nerfed, now I use the fotm fit Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
jerrmy12 kahoalii 767	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:06:00 - [40] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Yes I saw it and im not biased at all Then instead of trying to get godmode back shouldnt you be trying to bring armor tanks into balance you know because you aren't biased Not everyone uses bkasters...and tanjs are meant to tank Now the gunlogi is like the cal heavy, basically insta ganked by everything Bye now, im tired of the avers who ruined shields Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears

Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 356	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:06:00 - [41] - Quote I would have hardeners reduce or remove reps for their duration Real heavies use lasers
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 903	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:09:00 - [42] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: This is the way it should have been from the beginning. It is an anti-vehicle weapon that is dedicated entirely to the act of countering vehicles, there's no reason a hardener should go on to not only decrease damage taken by weaponry but NEGATE it as well. As Judge said, "Waves of Opportunity" does NOT mean god mode, and that's what hardeners represented for this class of anti-vehicle weaponry. Exept because this fix the shield vehicles can no longer hit and run, niw its get hit, activate hard and run, regening while getting shot by an ANTI ARMOR weapon was the only was shields survived Have you seen the damage taken by Swarms while hardeners were on? It's a seriously paltry amount, they do significantly less damage to shields from the outset and then do even less when hardeners are added to the equation. Swarms up until Proto still do laughably low damage and you have more than enough time to respond to their being launched - you have audio cues! And remember that this change applies to more than just one class of vehicle, now Swarmers can actually drive away a triple hardened Python that could sit there and absorb all Swarm Launcher damage indefinitely. Why cant you infantry retards not balance on multiple hardebers, now im running 2 or 3 hards on my python, and good its a pure anti armor it shoukd barely do damage to a hardenered SHIELD vehicle, but hardeners were nerfed, now I use the fotm fit you realize its only FOTM because its BROKEN right hence the need to achieve balance god knows how many tanker tears are gonna be shed when we get REAL anti shield AV... Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2286	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:12:00 - [43] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So let me get this straight you are complaing that a single volley of swarms means your tank stop shields regenerating? Lets do a little comparison. Assault Rifle at 10% efficency hits for 2 damage (there about) stops regen on infantry: no problems Swarms hit for upwards of 500 dmg, over 1/10th of your tanks total EHP: why can't I regen through this? Shield Regenration is for BETWEEN engagments not during engagements. The fact that you are annoyed you can't rep through an AV weapon just tells us everything we need to know. I don't want to, die, please, I don't want to die to infantry, anything but infantry. I play EVE, EVE have vehicles, DUST has vehicles Now i have armor ships in EVE which dont passively rep back armor, they are either buffer or active rep fit we had this in pre 1.7 and even back in chromo Also in EVE any ship has passive shield regen now in DUST this is not the case for whatever reason but also i cant even increase my passive shield rep rate in DUST for my vehicles They have it the wrong way around and the hardener nerf just shows it more when a basic swarm 1 volley instantly stops regen even tho its only just doing over half of its full damage You said that DUST vehicles don't follow convention, well here you go. DUST is different deal with the fact your no longer invincible to swarms. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 903	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:13:00 - [44] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Yes I saw it and im not biased at all Then instead of trying to get godmode back shouldnt you be trying to bring armor tanks into balance you know because you aren't biased Not everyone uses bkasters...and tanjs are meant to tank Now the gunlogi is like the cal heavy, basically insta ganked by everything Bye now, im tired of the avers who ruined shields and AV IS MEANT TO AV. A is for ANTI and V is for VEHICLE. Its not anti cloud or tree or even white fluffy bunnies... It's anti vehicle and it stands a chance again... Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 609	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:15:00 - [45] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Why cant you infantry retards not balance on multiple hardebers, now im running 2 or 3 hards on my python, and good its a pure anti armor it shoukd barely do damage to a hardenered SHIELD vehicle, but hardeners were nerfed, now I use the fotm fit Lol, that's the second time in two days I've been called an infantry guy - I've got 14m purely in the vehicle tree and can field any type of vehicle in the game. I'm sitting on an additional 8m unallocated as I await the release of additional turret types / vehicle classes. You don't know anything about me. "barely" doing damage is exactly what Swarms are doing now when Hardeners are activated. There's a difference between doing "barely" any damage and doing no damage at all, which was the case when Swarms didn't break the regen. Saga v. Methana Balance
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3145	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:15:00 - [46] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So let me get this straight you are complaing that a single volley of swarms means your tank stop shields regenerating? Lets do a little comparison. Assault Rifle at 10% efficency hits for 2 damage (there about) stops regen on infantry: no problems Swarms hit for upwards of 500 dmg, over 1/10th of your tanks total EHP: why can't I regen through this? Shield Regenration is for BETWEEN engagments not during engagements. The fact that you are annoyed you can't rep through an AV weapon just tells us everything we need to know. I don't want to, die, please, I don't want to die to infantry, anything but infantry. I play EVE, EVE have vehicles, DUST has vehicles Now i have armor ships in EVE which dont passively rep back armor, they are either buffer or active rep fit we had this in pre 1.7 and even back in chromo Also in EVE any ship has passive shield regen now in DUST this is not the case for whatever reason but also i cant even increase my passive shield rep rate in DUST for my vehicles They have it the wrong way around and the hardener nerf just shows it more when a basic swarm 1 volley instantly stops regen even tho its only just doing over half of its full damage You said that DUST vehicles don't follow convention, well here you go. DUST is different deal with the fact your no longer invincible to swarms. You cant say that, infantry cried about how minnie had the passive armor rep and not gal and how gal were supposed to be the main armor tanker i think due to lore but you cant have lore done right for vehicles Go figure Intelligence is OP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6241	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:27:00 - [47] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Why cant you infantry retards not balance on multiple hardebers, now im running 2 or 3 hards on my python, and good its a pure anti armor it should barely do damage to a hardenered SHIELD vehicle, but hardeners were nerfed, now I use the fotm fit So your not biased at all, yet the opening sentence of your post is "Why can you infantry retards"? I'm pretty sure that expresses your biased. No, it should not "barely do damage". Should it deal reduced damage? Yes, that's one of the drawbacks of the Swarm Launcher. However the Swarm Launcher is an Anti-Vehicle weapon, and as such should do it's role. Anti-Vehicle If an AV weapon not damaging a vehicle based on it's damage type is balanced, then you'd also have to make the following changes: Nerf Small Missile Turrets It is an Explosive weapon, and has a negative damage bias towards Shields. When against a Caldari or Minmatar Sentinel, Missiles should "barely do damage" Nerf Blaster Turrets It's a Hybrid - Blaster weapon, and has a negative damage bias towards Armor. Against an Amarr or Gallente Sentinel, Blasters should "barely do damage" Nerf 20GJ Railguns It is a Hybrid - Railgun weapon, and has a negative bias towards Shields. When against a Minmatar or Caldari Sentinel, 20GJ Railguns "barely do damage" Suddenly completely negating damage based on damage profiles doesn't seem so balanced does it? The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6241	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:31:00 - [48] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You cant say that, infantry cried about how minnie had the passive armor rep and not gal and how gal were supposed to be the main armor tanker i think due to lore but you cant have lore done right for vehicles Go figure Really? I don't remember seeing a thread asking to remove the 1HP/s from the Minmatar Frames. But I do remember seeing countless threads begging for CCP to keep the 1HP/s regen. You cannot assume that the entire infantry playerbase believes one thing just for the actions of few in the same sense that It would be illogical to assume that you and Spkr4TheDead share the views of the entire Pilot community (or majority for that matter). The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
jerrmy12 kahoalii 767	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:40:00 - [49] - Quote Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Why cant you infantry retards not balance on multiple hardebers, now im running 2 or 3 hards on my python, and good its a pure anti armor it should barely do damage to a hardenered SHIELD vehicle, but hardeners were nerfed, now I use the fotm fit So your not biased at all, yet the opening sentence of your post is "Why can you infantry retards"? I'm pretty sure that expresses your biased. No, it should not "barely do damage". Should it deal reduced damage? Yes, that's one of the drawbacks of the Swarm Launcher. However the Swarm Launcher is an Anti-Vehicle weapon, and as such should do it's role. Anti-Vehicle If an AV weapon not damaging a vehicle based on it's damage type is balanced, then you'd also have to make the following changes: Nerf Small Missile Turrets It is an Explosive weapon, and has a negative damage bias towards Shields. When against a Caldari or Minmatar Sentinel, Missiles should "barely do damage" Nerf Blaster Turrets It's a Hybrid - Blaster weapon, and has a negative damage bias towards Armor. Against an Amarr or Gallente Sentinel, Blasters should "barely do damage" Nerf 20GJ Railguns It is a Hybrid - Railgun weapon, and has a negative bias towards Shields. When against a Minmatar or Caldari Sentinel, 20GJ Railguns "barely do damage" Suddenly completely negating damage based on damage profiles doesn't seem so balanced does it? Exept shields have 24s of uptime til they get raped in 3 shots by proto swarms...ive used every vehicle in dust, this just made shields worse Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 160	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:44:00 - [50] - Quote Are you really suggesting that swarms stopping the regen makes shields useless? You guys make me laugh. Its not gonna stop the regen on derpships. Even with the nerf tanks will still only take a small amount of damage anyway. You'd still need about 4 swarmers to kill you. Stop crying about it. We have had to deal with your OP tanks for months and now it has been balanced a little you start complaining. Really?

jerrmy12 kahoalii 767	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:49:00 - [51] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Are you really suggesting that swarms stopping the regen makes shields useless? You guys make me laugh. Its not gonna stop the regen on derpships. Even with the nerf tanks will still only take a small amount of damage anyway. You'd still need about 4 swarmers to kill you. Stop crying about it. We have had to deal with your OP tanks for months and now it has been balanced a little you start complaining. Really? Hardener nerf+low hp+now no regen=bye shueld tank Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 160	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:52:00 - [52] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Why cant you infantry retards not balance on multiple hardebers, now im running 2 or 3 hards on my python, and good its a pure anti armor it should barely do damage to a hardenered SHIELD vehicle, but hardeners were nerfed, now I use the fotm fit So your not biased at all, yet the opening sentence of your post is "Why can you infantry retards"? I'm pretty sure that expresses your biased. No, it should not "barely do damage". Should it deal reduced damage? Yes, that's one of the drawbacks of the Swarm Launcher. However the Swarm Launcher is an Anti-Vehicle weapon, and as such should do it's role. Anti-Vehicle If an AV weapon not damaging a vehicle based on it's damage type is balanced, then you'd also have to make the following changes: Nerf Small Missile Turrets It is an Explosive weapon, and has a negative damage bias towards Shields. When against a Caldari or Minmatar Sentinel, Missiles should "barely do damage" Nerf Blaster Turrets It's a Hybrid - Blaster weapon, and has a negative damage bias towards Armor. Against an Amarr or Gallente Sentinel, Blasters should "barely do damage" Nerf 20GJ Railguns It is a Hybrid - Railgun weapon, and has a negative bias towards Shields. When against a Minmatar or Caldari Sentinel, 20GJ Railguns "barely do damage" Suddenly completely negating damage based on damage profiles doesn't seem so balanced does it? Exept shields have 24s of uptime til they get raped in 3 shots by proto swarms...ive used every vehicle in dust, this just made shields worse So 3 x 1320 = 3980 Shields take 80% of this so take = 1056 per swarm salvo. Add in the 40% hardener and you get = 633.6 damage per swarm salvo. So 3 swarms is gonna do 1900 Dmg. Tell me how that is getting rid of the shields.
Tupni Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 81	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:52:00 - [53] - Quote So, shields, which are naturally 20% resistant to swarms, are so much worse than armor which has, what? Probably a natural 20% weakness to swarms and then a weaker hardener? And don't armor tanks have to waste slots and CPU/PG on recovery? Goodness, shield tanks are actually vulnerable, can LOSE SHIELDS, have drawbacks, and are no longer the immortal bastions of broken gameplay with virtually no risk but from their own kind? How ever will you get by OP? This means you might have to actually think and take on risk when dominating the battlefield right? You have my sincere sympathies.... [/sarcasm] Really, as someone who runs AV, armor isn't a problem. RE's, PEs, Swarms, AV grenades, the majority of AV is against Armor. One forge shot and if it doesn't move fast it's dead; hardeners or no. Heck, you don't even need to forge shot if you're fast enough and the terrain is in your favor. If you think armor tanking is so much better, give it an honest try and so how it goes. There's a reason you don't see as many on the battlefield. Their one real advantage is in AV because rails are so popular and they do have more HP; that's all they've got as far as I can tell.
BrownEye1129 Death In Xcess Corporation 231	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:57:00 - [54] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits I knew it, shield vehicles are worse than useless again. Yea it seems to be Armor has the passive going for it which generally cant be stopped where as with shield you do have to wait a few Im still trying to play and muck about but im sorta deleting all my tank fits and remaking again Yea the whole point in shields is faster regen but now they are useless I havent bothered to use my python aince the hotfix, all they had to do was make it 1 hard per vehicle and 1 armor rep oer vehicle or a penelty... OMG AV actually is useful let's all complain about it again!!!! Shields do have faster regen which means they can come back into the battle quick not be an indestructible force. You had your fun when swarms couldn't even reach the damage threshold to STOP the shield regen. Hardeners/Shield Booster seem like a good choice. Love how people on dust just want to stack the same mod in every slot smh. LOL "Easy Mode" Logi QQ
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2289	Posted - 2014.03.28 23:03:00 - [55] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So let me get this straight you are complaing that a single volley of swarms means your tank stop shields regenerating? Lets do a little comparison. Assault Rifle at 10% efficency hits for 2 damage (there about) stops regen on infantry: no problems Swarms hit for upwards of 500 dmg, over 1/10th of your tanks total EHP: why can't I regen through this? Shield Regenration is for BETWEEN engagments not during engagements. The fact that you are annoyed you can't rep through an AV weapon just tells us everything we need to know. I don't want to, die, please, I don't want to die to infantry, anything but infantry. I play EVE, EVE have vehicles, DUST has vehicles Now i have armor ships in EVE which dont passively rep back armor, they are either buffer or active rep fit we had this in pre 1.7 and even back in chromo Also in EVE any ship has passive shield regen now in DUST this is not the case for whatever reason but also i cant even increase my passive shield rep rate in DUST for my vehicles They have it the wrong way around and the hardener nerf just shows it more when a basic swarm 1 volley instantly stops regen even tho its only just doing over half of its full damage You said that DUST vehicles don't follow convention, well here you go. DUST is different deal with the fact your no longer invincible to swarms. You cant say that, infantry cried about how minnie had the passive armor rep and not gal and how gal were supposed to be the main armor tanker i think due to lore but you cant have lore done right for vehicles Go figure You are aware the people who complained about minnie loosing the innate reps were in the thousands. Go figure indeed. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 39	Posted - 2014.03.28 23:05:00 - [56] - Quote It's called "anti vehicle weaponry" for a reason you know? It's meant to damage and destroy vehicles, all the vehicle drivers and pilots just got to comfy with 1.7 and the AV nerf plus the addition of ridiculously powerful hardeners.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2289	Posted - 2014.03.28 23:08:00 - [57] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Thumb Green wrote: A hit from an Anti-Vehicle weapon is supposed to stop shield regen on vehicles; it's only Anti-Infantry weapons that aren't supposed to stop it. I don't see any infantry that run Caldari suits complaining about shots from the SMG stopping their shield regen; their suits aren't worthless or worse than useless as Jermy said and they are worse off than tanks to begin with. I'd tell you to HTFU and quit whining but that would something actually less than useless to tell you Taka. Even tho that it is anti vehicle 1 missile never had the power to stop regen and this was because it only does 80% damage and a 60% hardener then added on top So if it did 100dmg the resistance to shield made it do 80dmg then the hardener on top made it do 48 So the question is how can something stop regen if its only doing half of its original damage Come to think of it can a MD stop the regen? Yes, because it doesn't recieve the Infantry weapon penalty. its also in the launcher category. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1504	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:15:00 - [58] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: WAAAAAAAAAAAAH! snif WAAAAHHH!!, snif WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Two things to say to you: Shut Up. Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6244	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:28:00 - [59] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Exept shields have 24s of uptime til they get raped in 3 shots by proto swarms...ive used every vehicle in dust, this just made shields worse So.. what's the problem? All vehicles should be easily killed by AV during their hardener's downtime. That's the wave of opportunity. As Vitharr said earlier, if you want a stand and deliver vehicle, use the armored variants. The Shielded vehicles are hit and run, not "hit, hit, hit, and hit" I've used everything in DUST (besides Assault Dropships). What difference does it make? The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2463	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:37:00 - [60] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day I guess you don't know anything about tanks? You know what happens when you pop that booster? If you get hit by a weapon that breaks regen inside 1s of activating, you get no HP. So it's a worthless mod. ak.0 4 LYFE CCP GIB LANCE TURRET PLOX LET ME MELEE PEOPLE WITH MY STEED

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6244	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:39:00 - [61] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: I guess you don't know anything about tanks? You know what happens when you pop that booster? If you get hit by a weapon that breaks regen inside 1s of activating, you get no HP. So it's a worthless mod. It's not worthless. It just means you can't have an I-Win button against AV by instantly boosting your health once your shields die. Perhaps you should learn to use cover? The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 43	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:40:00 - [62] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: I guess you don't know anything about tanks? You know what happens when you pop that booster? If you get hit by a weapon that breaks regen inside 1s of activating, you get no HP. So it's a worthless mod. I use tanks and those modules aren't useless you're just over reacting they work amazingly
WarMachine88 Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:54:00 - [63] - Quote Gotta love shield tankers... they get to fit anything on a Gunnlogi while Maddy users have to struggle fitting any turret that's not a blaster. Pretty sure he was a Gunnlogi with a blaster... : p
Testing Turbo Bragian Order Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2014.03.29 01:04:00 - [64] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits HTFU Learn to Adapt Isn't this what you've been telling AV for 4 months .. No sympathy Tanks should be nerfed even more ... you wanted God Mode and rubbed it in Infantrys faces so you're on your own for vehicle n AV Balance i'll go down the making AV God mode road instead seeing how you Tankers acted
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3146	Posted - 2014.03.29 11:03:00 - [65] - Quote Tupni wrote: So, shields, which are naturally 20% resistant to swarms, are so much worse than armor which has, what? Probably a natural 20% weakness to swarms and then a weaker hardener? And don't armor tanks have to waste slots and CPU/PG on recovery? Goodness, shield tanks are actually vulnerable, can LOSE SHIELDS, have drawbacks, and are no longer the immortal bastions of broken gameplay with virtually no risk but from their own kind? How ever will you get by OP? This means you might have to actually think and take on risk when dominating the battlefield right? You have my sincere sympathies.... [/sarcasm] Really, as someone who runs AV, armor isn't a problem. RE's, PEs, Swarms, AV grenades, the majority of AV is against Armor. One forge shot and if it doesn't move fast it's dead; hardeners or no. Heck, you don't even need to forge shot if you're fast enough and the terrain is in your favor. If you think armor tanking is so much better, give it an honest try and see how it goes. There's a reason you don't see as many on the battlefield. Their one real advantage is in AV because rails are so popular and they do have more HP; that's all they've got as far as I can tell. I mostly use armor tanks Better gun depression and plus the high slots i can stick in a nitro and if i wish 500+hp/s regen where as my gunlogi regen is like 100 or something and thats if im not getting hit Intelligence is OP
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3146	Posted - 2014.03.29 11:06:00 - [66] - Quote Testing Turbo wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on Well back to theorycrafting some fits HTFU Learn to Adapt Isn't this what you've been telling AV for 4 months .. No sympathy Tanks should be nerfed even more ... you wanted God Mode and rubbed it in Infantrys faces so you're on your own for vehicle n AV Balance i'll go down the making AV God mode road instead seeing how you Tankers acted And the 6+months before 1.7 AV players were also saying 'HTFU Learn to adapt' with the OP AV when 1 swarm covered the entire map and dealt 3k per volley Intelligence is OP
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2397	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:37:00 - [67] - Quote Shield boosters are bugged, and really need to be looked at. They are so inconsistent, I would also agree they are pretty much useless atm. I also think shield tanks need a regulator low slot mod, that would help a lot imo with this issue.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6249	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:51:00 - [68] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: And the 6+months before 1.7 AV players were also saying 'HTFU Learn to adapt' with the OP AV when 1 swarm covered the entire map and dealt 3k per volley Yep, and that's also what you've been telling AV, despite overwhelming evidence to support vehicles being overpowered, and you and Spkr4TheDead's failure to provide a valid argument as to why they're not OP. That woman named Karma... She's a real b!tch huh? The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Cinder Integ Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 154	Posted - 2014.03.29 15:34:00 - [69] - Quote I've always preferred shield booster to hardener, and never relied on regen instead of tactics and true "windows of opportunity" shields are not broken, you just can't sit and "tank" the damage without dealing with AV. Tank's are still strong vs AV, stop crying and play better Trading Carrots for Isk! Come and Get em!
Cinder Integ Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 154	Posted - 2014.03.29 15:36:00 - [70] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: And the 6+months before 1.7 AV players were also saying 'HTFU Learn to adapt' with the OP AV when 1 swarm covered the entire map and dealt 3k per volley Yep, and that's also what you've been telling AV, despite overwhelming evidence to support vehicles being overpowered, and you and Spkr4TheDead's failure to provide a valid argument as to why they're not OP. That woman named Karma... She's a real b!tch huh? side note / double post, I personally Sh*t on tanks with forge / swarms / RE's/ Prox... The AV vs tanks is fairly balanced imo... But once again one must stop crying and play better to relise this Trading Carrots for Isk! Come and Get em!

Skihids Bullet Cluster 3206	Posted - 2014.03.29 15:59:00 - [71] - Quote You can: Seperate vehicle and infantry roles Require multi-player crews Remove or severely limit the number of vehicles Balance them one on one with suits Allow the carnage to continue Looks like CCP chose a combination of 3 and 4. All they have to do now is equalize the vehicle and suit prices and they will be done.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4663	Posted - 2014.03.29 16:01:00 - [72] - Quote Being able to perma-harden with triple hardeners on a Gunnlogi and literally pretend Swarm launchers don't exist was broken. This is a FIX, not CCP breaking something. Armour passive regen options are too powerful. That ALSO needs fixing. Vehicles in 1.7 (and coming into 1.8) were OP because of how hardeners worked. This brings them a good way back into line with where they should be. Armour tanks still need some adjustment, though. Shield tanks aren't broken, they're balanced better than they were before. Armour tanks aren't fixed the way they should be though, and still need to be actually fixed.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 722	Posted - 2014.03.29 16:02:00 - [73] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again. ^ This ^ Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 722	Posted - 2014.03.29 16:05:00 - [74] - Quote Cinder Integ wrote: I've always preferred shield booster to hardener, and never relied on regen instead of tactics and true "windows of opportunity" shields are not broken, you just can't sit and "tank" the damage without dealing with AV. Tank's are still strong vs AV, stop crying and play better You do realize the booster is bugged correct? Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3150	Posted - 2014.03.29 16:12:00 - [75] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: And the 6+months before 1.7 AV players were also saying 'HTFU Learn to adapt' with the OP AV when 1 swarm covered the entire map and dealt 3k per volley Yep, and that's also what you've been telling AV, despite overwhelming evidence to support vehicles being overpowered, and you and Spkr4TheDead's failure to provide a valid argument as to why they're not OP. That woman named Karma... She's a real b!tch huh? Nah we have 2 months left to be OP tbh, AV had at least 6months if not more We tried tell AV but AV wouldnt have it so when it came to vehicles we just played the same game back at ya and it was lolworthy and fun while it lasted The saying 'what goes around comes around' is more fitting Intelligence is OP
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3150	Posted - 2014.03.29 16:17:00 - [76] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Being able to perma-harden with triple hardeners on a Gunnlogi and literally pretend Swarm launchers don't exist was broken. This is a FIX, not CCP breaking something. Armour passive regen options are too powerful. That ALSO needs fixing. Vehicles in 1.7 (and coming into 1.8) were OP because of how hardeners worked. This brings them a good way back into line with where they should be. Armour tanks still need some adjustment, though. Shield tanks aren't broken, they're balanced better than they were before. Armour tanks aren't fixed the way they should be though, and still need to be actually fixed. I didnt run 3 hardeners But after the change its pushing me to run 3 hardeners or at least 2 A BASIC swarm volley is able to nullify my COMPLEX hardener and stop my regen, an extender prolongs the pain a booster is a one time thing a scanner can be useless if they are more than 100m out and nitro gives me the speed to run away alot faster Anything else that hits me like a FG or even a rail will just cause alot more damage Armor is able to do what shield should be able to do and it does it alot better Intelligence is OP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6255	Posted - 2014.03.29 18:47:00 - [77] - Quote Cinder Integ wrote: side note / double post, I personally Sht on tanks with forge / swarms / RE's/ Prox... The AV vs tanks is fairly balanced imo... But once again one must stop crying and play better to relise this Yeah, and I had a Madrugar build that made it theoretically impossible to kill with anything other than a Jihad Jeep, Vehicle, or Wyrikomi Breach Forge gun. One must look beyond anecdotes to realize this. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"* [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
jerrmy12 kahoalii 770	Posted - 2014.03.29 19:03:00 - [78] - Quote Atiim wrote: Cinder Integ wrote: side note / double post, I personally Sh*t on tanks with forge / swarms / RE's/ Prox... The AV vs tanks is fairly balanced imo... But once again one must stop crying and play better to relise this Yeah, and I had a Madrugar build that made it theoretically impossible to kill with anything other than a Jihad Jeep, Vehicle, or Wyrikomi Breach Forge gun. One must look beyond anecdotes to realize this. One must look beyond exploiting to realize this Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1987	Posted - 2014.03.29 19:26:00 - [79] - Quote You were never supposed to rep through damage with shields. It is now fixed. Get on with your life dude. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Jagganath88 Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.29 19:45:00 - [80] - Quote Cant wait for someone to say "respect" oops

Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 147	Posted - 2014.03.29 19:50:00 - [81] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Are you seriously complaining that you can't out rep near constant damage anymore? Hardeners were never meant to be a source of constant regen, that's why they offer resistance bonuses, not regen bonuses. All I'm hearing is you aren't happy that you have to use an extra hardener to be invincible to swarms, thus breaking your perma-hardened cycle and introducing the intended "waves of opportunity". Regardless of the swarms' damage bias, shields should not be immune to them. Dropsuit shields aren't immune to explosives, why should yours?
jerrmy12 kahoalii 770	Posted - 2014.03.29 19:58:00 - [82] - Quote Rizlax Yazzax wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Are you seriously complaining that you can't out rep near constant damage anymore? Hardeners were never meant to be a source of constant regen, that's why they offer resistance bonuses, not regen bonuses. All I'm hearing is you aren't happy that you have to use an extra hardener to be invincible to swarms, thus breaking your perma-hardened cycle and introducing the intended "waves of opportunity". Regardless of the swarms' damage bias, shields should not be immune to them. Dropsuit shields aren't immune to explosives, why should yours? We dont want to out rep we just dont want our regen to stop Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 147	Posted - 2014.03.29 20:22:00 - [83] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Rizlax Yazzax wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Are you seriously complaining that you can't out rep near constant damage anymore? Hardeners were never meant to be a source of constant regen, that's why they offer resistance bonuses, not regen bonuses. All I'm hearing is you aren't happy that you have to use an extra hardener to be invincible to swarms, thus breaking your perma-hardened cycle and introducing the intended "waves of opportunity". Regardless of the swarms' damage bias, shields should not be immune to them. Dropsuit shields aren't immune to explosives, why should yours? We dont want to out rep we just dont want our regen to stop If it were introduced to the dropsuits too for the sake of parity then sure. Pretty sure it wouldn't go down well though. Everyone would just hop in and out of cover after every hit, making extremely extended fire-fights with little death occuring. I know dropsuits and tanks are separate entities, but what works for one may not work for the other, especially when trying to keep tech constant across different platforms. Edit: I am aware constant regen is how shields work in EvE, but as of now I don't think it is viable on an infantry/vehicle level.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3155	Posted - 2014.03.30 12:45:00 - [84] - Quote Rizlax Yazzax wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod Are you seriously complaining that you can't out rep near constant damage anymore? Hardeners were never meant to be a source of constant regen, that's why they offer resistance bonuses, not regen bonuses. All I'm hearing is you aren't happy that you have to use an extra hardener to be invincible to swarms, thus breaking your perma-hardened cycle and introducing the intended "waves of opportunity". Regardless of the swarms' damage bias, shields should not be immune to them. Dropsuit shields aren't immune to explosives, why should yours? In EVE my shield on all my ships passively reps, in DUST it doesnt But what does annoy me is that a BASIC swarm just ignores my COMPLEX hardener and the 'wave of opportunity' is all the time with a gunlogi, you have a hardener on doesnt matter damage is caused regen stops, dont have a hardener on damage is caused regen is stopped How can i tank when hardeners do not work? im not able to tank any damage, i need 2 so that my regen isnt stopped by BASIC swarms At least with a maddy i have passive reps, it does what the gunlogi is supposed to do but better Intelligence is OP
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4682	Posted - 2014.03.30 13:01:00 - [85] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In EVE my shield on all my ships passively reps, in DUST it doesnt In DUST, all shields regen. They just don't regen constantly without any interruption no matter what. Quote: But what does annoy me is that a BASIC swarm just ignores my COMPLEX hardener and the 'wave of opportunity' is all the time with a gunlogi, you have a hardener on doesnt matter damage is caused regen stops, dont have a hardener on damage is caused regen is stopped I'm sorry that an ANTI VEHICLE WEAPON that had previously been over-nerfed now works against vehicles again. As a shield tanker myself, I understand your pain. Wait, no, I don't because this is how they SHOULD work. Basic Assault Rifles still kill Protosuits. Basic Forge Guns always used to stop your shield regen and you never complained about that. This is not a problem, it's (finally) working as intended. And you want your waves of opportunity? Guess what? YOU HAVE THEM. Multiple hardeners mean that instead of perma-hardened with no downtime (no waves of opportunity), you have to stack hardeners to avoid damage from swarms, leaving periods of vulnerability LIKE CCP INTENDED TO HAVE HAPPEN. Quote: How can i tank when hardeners do not work? im not able to tank any damage, i need 2 so that my regen isnt stopped by BASIC swarms So bring 2 hardeners, or deal with the fact that your regen gets interrupted for the couple of seconds it takes to kill the Swarm guy. Quote: At least with a maddy i have passive reps, it does what the gunlogi is supposed to do but better Yep. Armour reppers are still OP and need nerfing so they don't give you higher regen than shield tanks can get while ALSO keeping the high HP because that's what armour is good at. Don't complain about your (and my) shield tank being balanced and say we're underpowered. Point out that armour tanks are still OP and need to be brought back into line.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3155	Posted - 2014.03.30 13:27:00 - [86] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In EVE my shield on all my ships passively reps, in DUST it doesnt In DUST, all shields regen. They just don't regen constantly without any interruption no matter what. Quote: But what does annoy me is that a BASIC swarm just ignores my COMPLEX hardener and the 'wave of opportunity' is all the time with a gunlogi, you have a hardener on doesnt matter damage is caused regen stops, dont have a hardener on damage is caused regen is stopped I'm sorry that an ANTI VEHICLE WEAPON that had previously been over-nerfed now works against vehicles again. As a shield tanker myself, I understand your pain. Wait, no, I don't because this is how they SHOULD work. Basic Assault Rifles still kill Protosuits. Basic Forge Guns always used to stop your shield regen and you never complained about that. This is not a problem, it's (finally) working as intended. And you want your waves of opportunity? Guess what? YOU HAVE THEM. Multiple hardeners mean that instead of perma-hardened with no downtime (no waves of opportunity), you have to stack hardeners to avoid damage from swarms, leaving periods of vulnerability LIKE CCP INTENDED TO HAVE HAPPEN. Quote: How can i tank when hardeners do not work? im not able to tank any damage, i need 2 so that my regen isnt stopped by BASIC swarms So bring 2 hardeners, or deal with the fact that your regen gets interrupted for the couple of seconds it takes to kill the Swarm guy. Quote: At least with a maddy i have passive reps, it does what the gunlogi is supposed to do but better Yep. Armour reppers are still OP and need nerfing so they don't give you higher regen than shield tanks can get while ALSO keeping the high HP because that's what armour is good at. Don't complain about your (and my) shield tank being balanced and say we're underpowered. Point out that armour tanks are still OP and need to be brought back into line. We dont have waves of opportunity If i cant tank damage with 1 hardener then its not tanking anything, infantry complained we run 3/2 hardeners on and the kicker is this nerf has lead me to do just that, for me to tank some damage its 2 hardeners on because 1 cannot stop even basic swarms so against a FG or rail is a knife through butter, 30% damage mod on a rail ignore 1 hardener and even armor tanks do have it worse with 25% its just a good job it has passive reps but how is it OP? if it was EVE style armor would need an active rep which we once had but now we dont, but also hopefully shield would have a passive rep which actually works like it should In EVE all my ships have passive shield regen all the time, there is no delay, it reps all the time but in DUST we dont have that now maybe its linked to Capacitors Right now this is the 2nd vehicle overhaul and they dont know what they are doing, they dont know what direction they want to take it and consistantly tweek to many things which end up breaking something Right now we have less vehicles, less mods, less skills, less slots so less variety and the kicker is it costs more SP for next to no improvement I wish we had capacitors and all the mods to go with it, go true EVE style and let me fit it up how i want to fit it up, every things is there in EVE done all that needs changing is a few numbers Intelligence is OP
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 171	Posted - 2014.03.30 17:45:00 - [87] - Quote Tanking damage should not mean you take every little bit of damage and roll off unscathed. Shield tanks are still effective if you cant handle the fact you lost 20% damage resist, even though it was stupidly broken, then you shouldnt be tanking. If you are worried that a dmg mod rail tank comes up behind you and pops you in two shots, dont blame the hardeners, blame the fact that the dmg mod gives 30% extra damage and that its too much. Rather than buff the hardeners nerf the damage mods. Stop acting like tanks are all gimped when swarms cant even take away all the shields from a maddy with the first shot, and by the time the second one is fired the hardener is up and he is driving away. Tanks are still good. try variation on your fits stop thinking that because you have a hardener you shouldnt die.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 331	Posted - 2014.03.30 18:03:00 - [88] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day 1 pulse, x amount, can be 2000 to 900hp regained but cooldown generally is 30-60seconds Once used shield could be full up but the next swarm just knocks out your shield regen again hardener on or not I run a gunlogi with 2 heavy armour reps, a shield hardener, and a shield booster, and a nitrous booster. Oh, and a large rail, a small rail, and a small missile. I have no problem with swarms unless their good, in which I run for cover. I save my shields for when things go bad, then I just hit the booster and the hardener and I'm good. Stop qqing because you die once in a while Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4700	Posted - 2014.03.31 01:09:00 - [89] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: We dont have waves of opportunity I just explained exactly how and why we DO have waves of opportunity. But I'll listen and see why you think I'm wrong. Quote: If i cant tank damage with 1 hardener then its not tanking anything There's a difference between being able to "tank" damage and being able to "ignore" it completely. If you have one hardener, you'll have extra HP from plates/extenders in your other slots. If you CHOOSE to equip something else to buff your damage instead, then you're CHOOSING to make a glass cannon fit that ISN'T MEANT TO TANK. Hardeners reduce the damage you take significantly. This means that while even a single one is active, YES YOU ARE TANKING DAMAGE. Quote: infantry complained we run 3/2 hardeners on and the kicker is this nerf has lead me to do just that, for me to tank some damage its 2 hardeners on because 1 cannot stop even basic swarms So what you're saying is that you DON'T want to "tank" damage, you want to IGNORE it. And because you're fitting multiple hardeners to be able to do so, you're creating waves of opportunity. Now, tanks have a variety of options with benefits and drawbacks. You can equip multiple hardeners for permanent hardened effect and CONSTANTLY increased eHP, or you can stack the hardeners for short-term near-immunity to damage, but with waves of opportunity for enemy fire because when the stacked hardeners are on cooldown you're vulnerable and have minimal passive tank. If you only equip one hardener, you don't get any immunity to damage, only resistance (quite significant resistance at that). The tradeoff is that you can add plates/extenders in those slots for extra passive tanking, giving you higher eHP as a constant advantage like you'd get by cycling multiple hardeners. Quote: so against a FG or rail is a knife through butter, 30% damage mod on a rail ignore 1 hardener and even armor tanks do have it worse with 25% Hardener is an active module. Damage mod is an active module. You're complaining that one active module used by your enemy negates the effectiveness of one active module used on your tank? Yeah, as usual for what you're complaining about, THIS IS WORKING AS INTENDED. Armour hardeners have ALWAYS been weaker than shield hardeners, but with their own advantages )not least of which is the fact that armour tanks have more raw HP to work with AND gain even more still from stacking plates. Quote: its just a good job it has passive reps but how is it OP? if it was EVE style armor would need an active rep which we once had but now we dont, but also hopefully shield would have a passive rep which actually works like it should Shield passive rep works as it should FOR DUST. Armour passive rep DOESN'T. Armour can easily get significantly better passive reps than shield can. This is NOT working as it should. Shields should have lower HP, but better reps and hardening. At the moment, armour gets more raw HP and a HUGE advantage in repair rate, and only loses out by a small margin on hardening.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4700	Posted - 2014.03.31 01:10:00 - [90] - Quote Quote: In EVE all my ships have passive shield regen all the time, there is no delay, it reps all the time but in DUST we dont have that now maybe its linked to Capacitors Or maybe it's linked to different gameplay mechanics being applicable in FPS gameplay. There are a lot of things from EVE which simply don't work in a shooter. Quote: Right now this is the 2nd vehicle overhaul and they dont know what they are doing, they dont know what direction they want to take it and consistantly tweek to many things which end up breaking something This isn't an "overhaul" it's a "hotfix" - a minor tweak to how vehicles behave. It's a SOLUTION to a PROBLEM because Swarm Launchers are ANTI VEHICLE WEAPONS and there were vehicles which IGNORED them. Quote: Right now we have less vehicles, less mods, less skills, less slots so less variety and the kicker is it costs more SP for next to no improvement I'm sorry that you don't have all the toys you want to play with. Infantry don't have webifiers yet. We don't have a whole range of racial weapon options. I don't have my MTACs that I'm looking forward to. Quote: I wish we had capacitors and all the mods to go with it, go true EVE style and let me fit it up how i want to fit it up, every things is there in EVE done all that needs changing is a few numbers I'd be interested in seeing capacitor and SOME of the options from EVE being brought to DUST, but as mentioned, there are certain mechanics which NEED to behave differently between a shooter like DUST and a more automated RPG-style game like EVE.

Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 614	Posted - 2014.03.31 02:03:00 - [91] - Quote I'm going to try and remain neutral on this. For the record, I have proto swarms and have both a Gunni and Maddy build (though my skills are all at basic or less.) The simple question that needs to be asked is, "What reason is there to choose a shield/Gunni tank over an armor/Maddy one?" The Gunni seems to have more acceleration and better handling in my experience, and is able to equip damage mods much more effectively. But do shield tanks have to be glass cannons? Hit-and-run specialists? Honestly, it doesn't seem fair that the shield tanks need to run for cover in order to heal themselves whereas an armor tank can soak up damage while still repping away; is the benefit of a damage mod that significant? What happens if damage mods are nerfed in the future? If you subtract the damage mod from the equation, are better off having Gunni with a rail gun, or a Maddy? In my opinion, I think a fair solution would be to have passive reps for shields...but only if combined with a reduction to the regular regeneration values. Hypothetical example with made-up numbers: Say that a Gunni has a recharge rate of 200hp/s and a delay of 2 seconds. What if that was reduced to 100 or so, and in return you were able to equip passive reps that could give between 50 and 100 healing per second, per module? (The shield reppers would obviously be weaker than the armor versions, due to the recharge bonus.) We could then see similar cost/benefit analysis as with the Maddy--is a hardener more valuable than increased repair rate? Are more base HP more valuable? Am I willing sacrifice rep rate for increased damage? Such a change could make running a blaster/shield tank combo much more practical and add more variety to the game. Thoughts? "Trust and you'll be trusted," says the liar to the fool.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 489	Posted - 2014.03.31 02:13:00 - [92] - Quote Swarms are supposed to stop shield regeneration, hardeners or no hardeners. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )
jerrmy12 kahoalii 785	Posted - 2014.03.31 02:21:00 - [93] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: I'm going to try and remain neutral on this. For the record, I have proto swarms and have both a Gunni and Maddy build (though my skills are all at basic or less.) The simple question that needs to be asked is, "What reason is there to choose a shield/Gunni tank over an armor/Maddy one?" The Gunni seems to have more acceleration and better handling in my experience, and is able to equip damage mods much more effectively. But do shield tanks have to be glass cannons? Hit-and-run specialists? Honestly, it doesn't seem fair that the shield tanks need to run for cover in order to heal themselves whereas an armor tank can soak up damage while still repping away; is the benefit of a damage mod that significant? What happens if damage mods are nerfed in the future? If you subtract the damage mod from the equation, are better off having Gunni with a rail gun, or a Maddy? In my opinion, I think a fair solution would be to have passive reps for shields...but only if combined with a reduction to the regular regeneration values. Hypothetical example with made-up numbers: Say that a Gunni has a recharge rate of 200hp/s and a delay of 2 seconds. What if that was reduced to 100 or so, and in return you were able to equip passive reps that could give between 50 and 100 healing per second, per module? (The shield reppers would obviously be weaker than the armor versions, due to the recharge bonus.) We could then see similar cost/benefit analysis as with the Maddy--is a hardener more valuable than increased repair rate? Are more base HP more valuable? Am I willing sacrifice rep rate for increased damage? Such a change could make running a blaster/shield tank combo much more practical and add more variety to the game. Thoughts? F yea Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4703	Posted - 2014.03.31 02:30:00 - [94] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Thoughts? Honestly, I'd rather see passive armour reps nerfed into the ground, BUT the addition of an active armour repair module with a good repair speed. You COULD set up passive reps on an armour tank, but you won't be keeping up with the regen rate on a shield tank even after considering their regen delay. If you want to repair your armour tank in combat, you should be using an active module. Shields should have their base regen relatively high, and use Shield Boosters for regen during combat.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3173	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:32:00 - [95] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: I'm going to try and remain neutral on this. For the record, I have proto swarms and have both a Gunni and Maddy build (though my skills are all at basic or less.) The simple question that needs to be asked is, "What reason is there to choose a shield/Gunni tank over an armor/Maddy one?" The Gunni seems to have more acceleration and better handling in my experience, and is able to equip damage mods much more effectively. But do shield tanks have to be glass cannons? Hit-and-run specialists? Honestly, it doesn't seem fair that the shield tanks need to run for cover in order to heal themselves whereas an armor tank can soak up damage while still repping away; is the benefit of a damage mod that significant? What happens if damage mods are nerfed in the future? If you subtract the damage mod from the equation, are better off having Gunni with a rail gun, or a Maddy? In my opinion, I think a fair solution would be to have passive reps for shields...but only if combined with a reduction to the regular regeneration values. Hypothetical example with made-up numbers: Say that a Gunni has a recharge rate of 200hp/s and a delay of 2 seconds. What if that was reduced to 100 or so, and in return you were able to equip passive reps that could give between 50 and 100 healing per second, per module? (The shield reppers would obviously be weaker than the armor versions, due to the recharge bonus.) We could then see similar cost/benefit analysis as with the Maddy--is a hardener more valuable than increased repair rate? Are more base HP more valuable? Am I willing sacrifice rep rate for increased damage? Such a change could make running a blaster/shield tank combo much more practical and add more variety to the game. Thoughts? We have mods like this in EVE for shields All we have to do is bring them to DUST Intelligence is OP
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3502	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:38:00 - [96] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day You mean that thing with the 50% failure rate? Yea, we have that. The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game Caldari Scout // specialized tank destroyer
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1299	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:53:00 - [97] - Quote I guess i have to make a Swarm loadout again and see if it works... So far they were meant to be used against Armor... They are also supposed to do more damage to armor, not shields... Interesting... On another note, vehicle users should use proper Teamwork and coordinate with the team to fend of Swarms right ?!


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