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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4663
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Posted - 2014.03.29 16:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Being able to perma-harden with triple hardeners on a Gunnlogi and literally pretend Swarm launchers don't exist was broken.
This is a FIX, not CCP breaking something.
Armour passive regen options are too powerful. That ALSO needs fixing.
Vehicles in 1.7 (and coming into 1.8) were OP because of how hardeners worked. This brings them a good way back into line with where they should be. Armour tanks still need some adjustment, though.
Shield tanks aren't broken, they're balanced better than they were before. Armour tanks aren't fixed the way they should be though, and still need to be actually fixed. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4682
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Posted - 2014.03.30 13:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:In EVE my shield on all my ships passively reps, in DUST it doesnt
In DUST, all shields regen. They just don't regen constantly without any interruption no matter what.
Quote:But what does annoy me is that a BASIC swarm just ignores my COMPLEX hardener and the 'wave of opportunity' is all the time with a gunlogi, you have a hardener on doesnt matter damage is caused regen stops, dont have a hardener on damage is caused regen is stopped
I'm sorry that an ANTI VEHICLE WEAPON that had previously been over-nerfed now works against vehicles again. As a shield tanker myself, I understand your pain. Wait, no, I don't because this is how they SHOULD work. Basic Assault Rifles still kill Protosuits. Basic Forge Guns always used to stop your shield regen and you never complained about that. This is not a problem, it's (finally) working as intended.
And you want your waves of opportunity? Guess what? YOU HAVE THEM. Multiple hardeners mean that instead of perma-hardened with no downtime (no waves of opportunity), you have to stack hardeners to avoid damage from swarms, leaving periods of vulnerability LIKE CCP INTENDED TO HAVE HAPPEN.
Quote:How can i tank when hardeners do not work? im not able to tank any damage, i need 2 so that my regen isnt stopped by BASIC swarms
So bring 2 hardeners, or deal with the fact that your regen gets interrupted for the couple of seconds it takes to kill the Swarm guy.
Quote:At least with a maddy i have passive reps, it does what the gunlogi is supposed to do but better
Yep. Armour reppers are still OP and need nerfing so they don't give you higher regen than shield tanks can get while ALSO keeping the high HP because that's what armour is good at.
Don't complain about your (and my) shield tank being balanced and say we're underpowered. Point out that armour tanks are still OP and need to be brought back into line. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4700
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Posted - 2014.03.31 01:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:We dont have waves of opportunity
I just explained exactly how and why we DO have waves of opportunity. But I'll listen and see why you think I'm wrong.
Quote:If i cant tank damage with 1 hardener then its not tanking anything
There's a difference between being able to "tank" damage and being able to "ignore" it completely. If you have one hardener, you'll have extra HP from plates/extenders in your other slots. If you CHOOSE to equip something else to buff your damage instead, then you're CHOOSING to make a glass cannon fit that ISN'T MEANT TO TANK. Hardeners reduce the damage you take significantly. This means that while even a single one is active, YES YOU ARE TANKING DAMAGE.
Quote:infantry complained we run 3/2 hardeners on and the kicker is this nerf has lead me to do just that, for me to tank some damage its 2 hardeners on because 1 cannot stop even basic swarms
So what you're saying is that you DON'T want to "tank" damage, you want to IGNORE it. And because you're fitting multiple hardeners to be able to do so, you're creating waves of opportunity. Now, tanks have a variety of options with benefits and drawbacks. You can equip multiple hardeners for permanent hardened effect and CONSTANTLY increased eHP, or you can stack the hardeners for short-term near-immunity to damage, but with waves of opportunity for enemy fire because when the stacked hardeners are on cooldown you're vulnerable and have minimal passive tank. If you only equip one hardener, you don't get any immunity to damage, only resistance (quite significant resistance at that). The tradeoff is that you can add plates/extenders in those slots for extra passive tanking, giving you higher eHP as a constant advantage like you'd get by cycling multiple hardeners.
Quote:so against a FG or rail is a knife through butter, 30% damage mod on a rail ignore 1 hardener and even armor tanks do have it worse with 25%
Hardener is an active module. Damage mod is an active module. You're complaining that one active module used by your enemy negates the effectiveness of one active module used on your tank? Yeah, as usual for what you're complaining about, THIS IS WORKING AS INTENDED. Armour hardeners have ALWAYS been weaker than shield hardeners, but with their own advantages )not least of which is the fact that armour tanks have more raw HP to work with AND gain even more still from stacking plates.
Quote:its just a good job it has passive reps but how is it OP? if it was EVE style armor would need an active rep which we once had but now we dont, but also hopefully shield would have a passive rep which actually works like it should
Shield passive rep works as it should FOR DUST. Armour passive rep DOESN'T. Armour can easily get significantly better passive reps than shield can. This is NOT working as it should. Shields should have lower HP, but better reps and hardening. At the moment, armour gets more raw HP and a HUGE advantage in repair rate, and only loses out by a small margin on hardening. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4700
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Posted - 2014.03.31 01:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:In EVE all my ships have passive shield regen all the time, there is no delay, it reps all the time but in DUST we dont have that now maybe its linked to Capacitors
Or maybe it's linked to different gameplay mechanics being applicable in FPS gameplay. There are a lot of things from EVE which simply don't work in a shooter.
Quote:Right now this is the 2nd vehicle overhaul and they dont know what they are doing, they dont know what direction they want to take it and consistantly tweek to many things which end up breaking something
This isn't an "overhaul" it's a "hotfix" - a minor tweak to how vehicles behave. It's a SOLUTION to a PROBLEM because Swarm Launchers are ANTI VEHICLE WEAPONS and there were vehicles which IGNORED them.
Quote:Right now we have less vehicles, less mods, less skills, less slots so less variety and the kicker is it costs more SP for next to no improvement
I'm sorry that you don't have all the toys you want to play with. Infantry don't have webifiers yet. We don't have a whole range of racial weapon options. I don't have my MTACs that I'm looking forward to.
Quote:I wish we had capacitors and all the mods to go with it, go true EVE style and let me fit it up how i want to fit it up, every things is there in EVE done all that needs changing is a few numbers
I'd be interested in seeing capacitor and SOME of the options from EVE being brought to DUST, but as mentioned, there are certain mechanics which NEED to behave differently between a shooter like DUST and a more automated RPG-style game like EVE. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4703
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Posted - 2014.03.31 02:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Thoughts?
Honestly, I'd rather see passive armour reps nerfed into the ground, BUT the addition of an active armour repair module with a good repair speed.
You COULD set up passive reps on an armour tank, but you won't be keeping up with the regen rate on a shield tank even after considering their regen delay. If you want to repair your armour tank in combat, you should be using an active module. Shields should have their base regen relatively high, and use Shield Boosters for regen during combat. |
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