Basic swarms which do 80% explosive damage stop the shield regen on all vehicles which has 1 active hardener on at the time of missile impact

That means 2 hardeners are needed to not take any damage and stop the missiles from stopping your regen

Swarms are generally the lowest threat to shield vehicles because of explosive damage and shields natural resist to explosive damage - Before the change 60% did mean that 1 swarm missile did not cause enough damage to break the shield rep on all swarm tiers - Now they all will break the regen threshold

It makes me wonder why i would ever run shield again, the hardeners could have been tiered like MLT/Std - 30% - ADV 40% - Proto 50% with a general knock down of 10% for the top mod

Now we have every single AV weapon and turrets will do more damage to shield even if the hardener is on meaning 2 is going to be the general fit, maybe 3 i wouldnt be suprised and the maddy in general at least has passive reps which nearly consistantly rep even when taking damage so swarms can be brushed off a bit better even tho they cause more damage to armor

Funny thing is vehicles are not sticking to lore and never have done

Armor tanks have passive reps, the shield on all vehicles and if you want even suits should always rep, shield in EVE reps passively at X amount all the time and even when taking damage but in DUST its given to the armor tankers but also little things like adding shield extenders improves your passive regen by x amount hp/s

You may read it as a QQ but i just dont get what im supposed to do now with my gunlogi since everything can dent it and armor can brush it off

I have a shield tank, but i cant increase its passive rep and it only works when im not taking damage which is better for DS but for a tank supposed to be in the thick of it sorta worthless when an armor can do what you are supposed to do and does it better

My python hasnt suffered too much since i can fly away quite easily but even so the swarms which are the DS main enemy since they do track to 400m and knock you about like a leaf in the wind will still stop my shield regen with 1 active hardener on

Well back to theorycrafting some fits

dont you have a module to insta restore your shield thare ya go argument is invalid have a nice day

Yea it seems to be

Armor has the passive going for it which generally cant be stopped where as with shield you do have to wait a few

Im still trying to play and muck about but im sorta deleting all my tank fits and remaking again

More then enough to:
A)kill swarmer or inform squad where swarmer is
B)get out of range
C)block LOS with cover

I see no problem with AV doing it job...

Maybe be but the main strength of a shield tank is its resistance to explosive weapons, it really no longer has that resistance because it cant stick around to really do anything, it either means a 3/2 hardener fit which infantry still complain about or not much else

Where as i could pull out an armor tank and generally stay there all day with a few fits

I'll let Vitharr do the work on this one.

Oh look another tanker who is upset that his godmode crutch has beeing taken away. How about instead of running 3 hardeners you put a shield extender on your tank? Oh wait you are used to easy mode tanking. Pathetic.

Ive read enough to understand that he doesnt want to get hurt by swarms. Hardeners are supposed to REDUCE damage not neglect 100% of it like it did previously.

So let me get this straight you are complaing that a single volley of swarms means your tank stop shields regenerating?

Lets do a little comparison.
Assault Rifle at 10% efficency hits for 2 damage (there about) stops regen on infantry: no problems
Swarms hit for upwards of 500 dmg, over 1/10th of your tanks total EHP: why can't I regen through this?

Shield Regenration is for BETWEEN engagments not during engagements.
The fact that you are annoyed you can't rep through an AV weapon just tells us everything we need to know.
I don't want to, die, please, I don't want to die to infantry, anything but infantry.

This is the way it should have been from the beginning. It is an anti-vehicle weapon that is dedicated entirely to the act of countering vehicles, there's no reason a hardener should go on to not only decrease damage taken by weaponry but NEGATE it as well.

As Judge said, "Waves of Opportunity" does NOT mean god mode, and that's what hardeners represented for this class of anti-vehicle weaponry.

I fully agree with you and to be honest the armor reppers on vehicles are f*ckin ridiculous I would LOVE to get that kinda healing percentage on my dropsuit. In my opinion reppers on tanks should like reppers on dropsuit something to help pick you up a bit after a fight but not something that should get you to full in the time it takes to reload a swarm or FG. They should be required to have a logi running with a vehicle repper to get even close to the reps they have now...

Have you seen the damage taken by Swarms while hardeners were on? It's a seriously paltry amount, they do significantly less damage to shields from the outset and then do even less when hardeners are added to the equation. Swarms up until Proto still do laughably low damage and you have more than enough time to respond to their being launched - you have audio cues! And remember that this change applies to more than just one class of vehicle, now Swarmers can actually drive away a triple hardened Python that could sit there and absorb all Swarm Launcher damage indefinitely.

Then instead of trying to get godmode back shouldnt you be trying to bring armor tanks into balance you know because you aren't biased

So your not biased at all, yet the opening sentence of your post is "Why can you infantry retards"? I'm pretty sure that expresses your biased.

No, it should not "barely do damage". Should it deal reduced damage? Yes, that's one of the drawbacks of the Swarm Launcher. However the Swarm Launcher is an Anti-Vehicle weapon, and as such should do it's role. Anti-Vehicle

If an AV weapon not damaging a vehicle based on it's damage type is balanced, then you'd also have to make the following changes:

Nerf Small Missile Turrets

It is an Explosive weapon, and has a negative damage bias towards Shields. When against a Caldari or Minmatar Sentinel, Missiles should "barely do damage"

Nerf Blaster Turrets

It's a Hybrid - Blaster weapon, and has a negative damage bias towards Armor. Against an Amarr or Gallente Sentinel, Blasters should "barely do damage"

Nerf 20GJ Railguns

It is a Hybrid - Railgun weapon, and has a negative bias towards Shields. When against a Minmatar or Caldari Sentinel, 20GJ Railguns "barely do damage"

---

Suddenly completely negating damage based on damage profiles doesn't seem so balanced does it?

Are you really suggesting that swarms stopping the regen makes shields useless? You guys make me laugh. Its not gonna stop the regen on derpships. Even with the nerf tanks will still only take a small amount of damage anyway. You'd still need about 4 swarmers to kill you. Stop crying about it. We have had to deal with your OP tanks for months and now it has been balanced a little you start complaining. Really?

Yeah, and I had a Madrugar build that made it theoretically impossible to kill with anything other than a Jihad Jeep, Vehicle, or Wyrikomi Breach Forge gun.

One must look beyond anecdotes to realize this.

Are you seriously complaining that you can't out rep near constant damage anymore? Hardeners were never meant to be a source of constant regen, that's why they offer resistance bonuses, not regen bonuses.

All I'm hearing is you aren't happy that you have to use an extra hardener to be invincible to swarms, thus breaking your perma-hardened cycle and introducing the intended "waves of opportunity". Regardless of the swarms' damage bias, shields should not be immune to them. Dropsuit shields aren't immune to explosives, why should yours?

I'm going to try and remain neutral on this. For the record, I have proto swarms and have both a Gunni and Maddy build (though my skills are all at basic or less.) The simple question that needs to be asked is, "What reason is there to choose a shield/Gunni tank over an armor/Maddy one?" The Gunni seems to have more acceleration and better handling in my experience, and is able to equip damage mods much more effectively. But do shield tanks have to be glass cannons? Hit-and-run specialists? Honestly, it doesn't seem fair that the shield tanks need to run for cover in order to heal themselves whereas an armor tank can soak up damage while still repping away; is the benefit of a damage mod that significant? What happens if damage mods are nerfed in the future? If you subtract the damage mod from the equation, are better off having Gunni with a rail gun, or a Maddy?

In my opinion, I think a fair solution would be to have passive reps for shields...but only if combined with a reduction to the regular regeneration values.
Hypothetical example with made-up numbers:
Say that a Gunni has a recharge rate of 200hp/s and a delay of 2 seconds. What if that was reduced to 100 or so, and in return you were able to equip passive reps that could give between 50 and 100 healing per second, per module? (The shield reppers would obviously be weaker than the armor versions, due to the recharge bonus.) We could then see similar cost/benefit analysis as with the Maddy--is a hardener more valuable than increased repair rate? Are more base HP more valuable? Am I willing sacrifice rep rate for increased damage? Such a change could make running a blaster/shield tank combo much more practical and add more variety to the game.

Thoughts?