People complaining about tanks have started a mass wave of militia HAV deployment in a effort to have HAV's reduced in their place on the battlefield . Every other post is about tanks and now there are people who just start a " Rant " post ( which is not spotted by CCP for some reason ) just for the simple fact of " forcing the hand " of CCP in an attempt at killing HAV's so they won't provide any opposition on the battlefield .

I'm even noticing " Tankers " making comments , suggesting to nerf their own roles .. which to me is counterproductive . Asking to change the performance of mods is foolish and would effect a change in the vehicle core of the skill tree , seeing as how ... the more skill points placed in the core the better the results of mods , i.e. better functionality of vehicles . Notice I say vehicles and not just HAV's because mods effect more than just HAV's , they effect LAV's , Drop ships and what ever else CCP has plans for which probably would include Mech's , Fighter Ships and such .

Yes , something needs to be done but like CCP , it's a work in progress and writing twenty pieces a day about it will not make them work fast enough because it's safe to say that , they probably will not want to go threw this again .

I don't see to many people switching to A.V. to combat " tank spam " , in match after match I notice this but also notice the posts full of complaints about tank use . Most of these said people who flood the forum with post after post , instead of just placing all of their " issues " on one post and that mimic's propaganda . I play matches and notice not too many people breaking their necks to dedicate themselves to A.V. , much less switching if it's a noticeable problem during the match and if there are enough tanks to cause a distraction , wouldn't one believe that players would make such an effort because that's untold WP's to be had and also it really only takes a few times of destroying some of these players HAV's ( except those who are dedicated to HAV usage ) to make these same people swap out to something less taxing , even if militia HAV's are " dirt cheep " they would not want to risk isk's or clones .

The problem is not HAV users it's the wave of players using militia tanks to gank WP's , isk's and the fact that they know that players " DO NOT SWITCH FITS TO COUNTER TANKS " most of the time ... so they go unchecked and the QQ's rain down in the forums . That coupled with the fact that you have players who just hate to see others " out perform " them , even more so the fact that they believe that CCP has a " bullseye " on nerfing their role and you get the hate spam that is " en mass " in the forums .

Something can be done but blurting out ignorant , role and skill point killing proposals just waste time . The best way to solve a problem is to act seriously about it and " come to the table " with some substantial fixes in mind and not just some , " You killed me now I'm going to kill your role " attitude because that's what the forum has been flooded with so far .

If serious discussions are undertaken then I'm sure that will bring about serious results .

Many players have AV set ups, they just aren't effective against a 3x hardener tank. Furthermore, there's is no 7x tank who are running x3 hardeners AV tactic. This will only get worst when higher tier tanks are released and elite players gain more SP and are able to cap out their tank fittings. Add in a brutal auto spawn system and it leads to a brutal tank spawn trapping system. But elite players don't want this to go, so unless the community pushes hard for it then it won't happen. Tanks in 1.7 were broken yet 1.8 AV was neef'd that makes no sense at all, but when you consider the elite are mostly using the tactic then you can see why nothing constructive gets accomplished (it doesnt favor the elite).

Hey OP, you wrote all those words just to say

"My tank isn't OP, you guys just aren't playing it right lmao lol git good haha"

I like how you rant about people not using AV when AV is broken and I dont mean UP I mean some of it is fundamentally broken and then you whine about people using militia tanks instead of AV when tanks are better for tank busting and cheaper as well

But hey, blame everyone else, its not you using something broken as a crutch

People complaining about tanks have started a mass wave of militia HAV deployment in a effort to have HAV's reduced in their place on the battlefield . Every other post is about tanks and now there are people who just start a " Rant " post ( which is not spotted by CCP for some reason ) just for the simple fact of " forcing the hand " of CCP in an attempt at killing HAV's so they won't provide any opposition on the battlefield .

I'm even noticing " Tankers " making comments , suggesting to nerf their own roles .. which to me is counterproductive . Asking to change the performance of mods is foolish and would effect a change in the vehicle core of the skill tree , seeing as how ... the more skill points placed in the core the better the results of mods , i.e. better functionality of vehicles . Notice I say vehicles and not just HAV's because mods effect more than just HAV's , they effect LAV's , Drop ships and what ever else CCP has plans for which probably would include Mech's , Fighter Ships and such .

Yes , something needs to be done but like CCP , it's a work in progress and writing twenty pieces a day about it will not make them work fast enough because it's safe to say that , they probably will not want to go threw this again .

I don't see to many people switching to A.V. to combat " tank spam " , in match after match I notice this but also notice the posts full of complaints about tank use . Most of these said people who flood the forum with post after post , instead of just placing all of their " issues " on one post and that mimic's propaganda . I play matches and notice not too many people breaking their necks to dedicate themselves to A.V. , much less switching if it's a noticeable problem during the match and if there are enough tanks to cause a distraction , wouldn't one believe that players would make such an effort because that's untold WP's to be had and also it really only takes a few times of destroying some of these players HAV's ( except those who are dedicated to HAV usage ) to make these same people swap out to something less taxing , even if militia HAV's are " dirt cheep " they would not want to risk isk's or clones .

The problem is not HAV users it's the wave of players using militia tanks to gank WP's , isk's and the fact that they know that players " DO NOT SWITCH FITS TO COUNTER TANKS " most of the time ... so they go unchecked and the QQ's rain down in the forums . That coupled with the fact that you have players who just hate to see others " out perform " them , even more so the fact that they believe that CCP has a " bullseye " on nerfing their role and you get the hate spam that is " en mass " in the forums .

Something can be done but blurting out ignorant , role and skill point killing proposals just waste time . The best way to solve a problem is to act seriously about it and " come to the table " with some substantial fixes in mind and not just some , " You killed me now I'm going to kill your role " attitude because that's what the forum has been flooded with so far .

If serious discussions are undertaken then I'm sure that will bring about serious results .

And it seems like your mad that you can't solo a tank anymore . Now does this sound like children arguing or can the adults come out to have a discussion?

Tankers who contribute to this debate with more than "Tanks are fine, quit crying and use coordinated AV" are very helpful to this ongoing discussion. They realize that tanks are OP right now and they try to suggest changes to tanks and/or AV that will make things more balanced without actually making tank too UP like they were previous to 1.7.

As an infantry player I actually want the same thing, I want tankers to be viable but I don't want them to be as strong as they are now. Maybe it is just rebuff and fix the swarm launcher, maybe its just a matter of fixing the modules. I don't know but I do know I would do one and then the other, but chances are CCP will do both at once and swing the imbalance the other way.

There have been many discussions and the consensus is: swarms are broken, the PC is gimped, forges are good as is, tanks are too fast and hardeners last too long and are too powerful. Your post does seem to be summarized by if only more people ran AV there would be no tank problems. I believe this is at least a partial answer and look forward to the damage points being awarded and seeing how that changes things.

Frankly, i think there has been lots of discussion and you simply haven't noticed it because you are one of those in the HTFU-get gud camp.

And it seems like your mad that you can't solo a tank anymore . Now does this sound like children arguing or can the adults come out to have a discussion?

Swarms are broken, judge proves it in this video: https://youtu.be/ls7hOEdNgXE

As for forge guns, yeah, I can take out a single tank just fine by myself if their hardeners are down. Having another forge gunner makes it rather easy to take out a single tank...

But look, if there are 4+ tanks on the field with 12 infantry, that means that if we're not supposed to be able to solo tanks then our side has to have at least 8 of our 16 players running forge guns. That's almost impossible unless you have a dedicated squad of heavies that can all use forge guns.

The most I ever see is maybe 1-3 forges (one of them being me), and most of the time there's only one of us that is actually decent with a forge gun and smart enough to wait for hardeners.
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The bigger issue is regenerationn of tanks. Before the tank update you could slowly chew at a tank's health (especially armor tanks) if they had already used their booster. Even if it took 10 shots, each hit was a small decrease to their health until you either killed them or they ran away to go heal.

But now armor tanks can sit there, hardened, with 200+ reps going every second, nullifying damage from swarms and out-repping forge gun hits. This is WRONG. The fact that an armor tank can rep faster than a forge can do damage is stupid.

I really want to see tanks have this "window of opportunity" where they are invincible for a short duration, and then must run away when unhardened. But as it stands right now there are ways to have hardeners cycle constantly where it's no longer a window, but instead a constant invulnerability.

I personally feel that tank vs tank is actually in a pretty good situation right now. Maybe a few issues with missiles and redline railtanking, but that's about it. It's hard to balance AV vs tanks because you can't offset the balance of tank v tank.

As a side note, why should a tank be able to solo an entire team instead of relying on infantry support and/or gunners, when an AV player MUST rely on other players to take on a solo tank? Also, why does it cost almost 70-80k per suit to take on a tank whereas that same militia tank costs the same amount? If multiple of these suits are required, shouldn't the isk value be relatively the same?

My last point: the main disadvantage of being in a tank is that you can't access the high-traffic areas of the maps like inside buildings and objectives. Further, you can't hack objectives while in a tank. On skirmish and domination this means that a tank is only useful as support to the infantry. The only other huge disadvantage a tank has is the inability to be sneaky. The problem is that passive scan range is only 10 meters, so as long as you're not in LOS (line of sight) you are completely invisible to radar except by scanners.

In ambush there are no objectives, and rarely do players fight in an area where there is no accessibility to tanks. The advantages are far greater for tanks...Larger passive scan, damage resists, insane repair, fast movement speed, 3rd person view (ability to see what's directly behind you, over walls out of LOS), guns that can shoot across the map...all for a very inexpensive cost. I never play ambush, but there seriously isn't any reason for tanks to be in that game mode

Insisting that you shouldn't be soloed is childish as well, simply because you belive that you should be better than anyone who's not like you.

That's also racism (in a sense).

You've also yet to supply a solid reason as to why you shouldn't be soloed.

And it seems like your mad that you can't solo a tank anymore . Now does this sound like children arguing or can the adults come out to have a discussion?

Explain how requiring more than one player to kill one other player is good game balance
Also I love the irony of you acting like a child with your replies in this thread but saying its other peoples problem

Sounds about right . I had to like the thought and feed back Zahle .

It's not so much that tanks are OP it's that tanks are so cheap to not only aquire but be able to purchase over and over again. One big problem I have with AV is having to fight off the entire enemy team while I'm fighting off a tank. The only weapon I've never used to take down a tank is plasma launcher cause that weapon is fuuuuuucken broken. Not to mention it's Gallente. Also I have to put more points into AV when I'm already skilling into other things, most importantly assault, for me. Again the biggest problem, in my eyes, is the cost. It costs more for a dropsuit loadout than most tanks? The fucks up with that?

Thanks man, we all sometimes become too self focused on our playstyles and what we run and then we post rage filled butt hurt posts in threads and it all becomes unproductive. We all do it sometimes, but I have friends who are tankers or heavies and while I'll argue on these forums about what is OP. I never want to see something nerfed to useless just so I can have my game easier or my KDR go up. Ideally all vehicles, suits, and weapons would be viable and everyone could play the role they want to play and have fun

Yeesh I am such a hippy today and I haven't even gotten high yet!

Hey OP, you wrote all those words just to say

"My tank isn't OP, you guys just aren't playing it right lmao lol git good haha"

Actually, many people really don't know how take out vehicles properly with AV. I'm not saying "git good", but many people expect things to be hand fed to them. I'm an ADS pilot, the occasional tanker (to kill the bastard that 1-2-3 shots me out of the sky), and forger. Some tanks are laughably easy to kill, especially when they're arrogant. ADS missiles are avoidable as a heavy, if you know the perspective of the pilot and where they are shooting from (angle, rate of fire, and etc). It's not that difficult... but I'm not denying that militia tanks are OP and need to be nerfed, while regular tanks could use a few adjustments and not necessarily a nerf.

I'm even noticing " Tankers " making comments , suggesting to nerf their own roles .. which to me is counterproductive . Asking to change the performance of mods is foolish...