Also a cap might do more harm than good as well seeing as how , the enemies might spawn tanks ... while the team your on is calling for militia drop ships and LAV's . Can you tell me that would seem interesting to you , seeing as how a lot of players choose not to combat " tank spam " with A.V. also , like what was stated before .. some just don't have the skill points to speck or they just read the forums and decide that specking into SL's would be a waste .

You would just be stuck with no way out .

And it seems like your mad that you can't solo a tank anymore . Now does this sound like children arguing or can the adults come out to have a discussion?

JLAV's are one v.s. one if done right and that method was not used until 1.7 .

HAV's should not be required to have multiple operators unless that is required for LAV's and Drop ships .

Not having to fit turrets was one of the best things that CCP could have done in their revamp of vehicles for 1.7 . I was a big opponent of that suggestion but now I see the light . I drove tanks that had PRO turrets during 1.6 and those who manned turrets were some of the problems of HAV users . Shooting at everything except other HAV's and threats , also they would bail in the middle of tank battles and troop engagements .... not knowing the outcome , knowing what mods were fitted and not trusting that said knowledge or experience of the HAV operator . Why hop in , for the ride ??? Or maybe it's the chance to ride off with the vehicle if the user hops out to deal with opposing troops .

Having turrets shoot at friendly troops , buildings or the MCC more than the enemies was a big problem and actually it still is .. even with ammo exceptions . I hop out from time to time to deal with A.V. while driving and if HAV's are forced to have multiple users then vehicle robberies will become more of a problem , hell ... I fly I drop hives and uplinks , when I do I frequently have to worry about someone flying off with my Dropships and that's a problem that shouldn't be while trying to help that same team to victory .

You have selfish players who care nothing about winning ... why reward them and that's what would happen . It seems like most people that play this game make suggestions that are not well thought out in regards of others and that's no surprise when you have team killers in FW , players who hop in someone's vehicle .. waiting for them to jump out , so they can ride off leaving it's owner . These are known issues of vehicle users .

If I'm not a logi , then I shouldn't have to use my skill points to build up someone else's playing experience .

People who suggest such are not vehicle users because vehicle users know the problems that they face .

Why are players crossing lines trying to influence changes to roles that they do not play ?

And it seems like your mad that you can't solo a tank anymore . Now does this sound like children arguing or can the adults come out to have a discussion?

I personally am not mad that I can't solo a tank. I'm mad that over multiple lives of nothing but dedicated attacks on a single tank. It WILL NOT DIE. There is no single piece of AV tech that can reliably kill a tank without millions of SP invested, which to a new player trying to get core upgrades finished, is impossible. Hell I managed to stick 3 REs on an oblivious tanker, all right on the weak point. 1/3rd of his health left. Just drove away. I had specifically wasted SP on getting into demolitions for this purpose. It is still a waste of time.

For some unknown reason militia HAVs are the only counter CCP feels the need to put into the game for new players right now. Top it all off it is only going to get worse come 1.8. That it was they are everywhere. People aren't going to roll over and let you stomp them forever.

There is no single piece of AV tech that can reliably kill a tank without millions of SP invested, which to a new player trying to get core upgrades finished, is impossible.

Just gonna toss this out there, seeing as you brought up RE's. This is the one effective AV method at the moment, but you need to get a routine going when you do it. RE's don't do quite enough damage, even at the weak point on a tank (Which is kinda silly) to kill them with three alone. Next time you're going out, grab some flux grenades or packed AV (Lv 1 or 2 is grenadier is all you need, that's only a few thousand extra SP) and hit the vehicle with a grenade after you get your RE's. Make sure you've still got them out, and immediately after the grenade hits, detonate the RE's. Assuming you got all three on the weak point, a single flux will ensure that only two things survive (A hardened tank and a Gunlogi with a shield extender) and since most people run Madrugers and Somas, this is a cheap and nearly 100% effective way of dealing with tanks. Note that all this works best in a scout suit, but if you're not using a scout, I'd recommend a pair of complex dampeners to ensure they can't get you with their scanners.

As a newer player you are always going to play catch up , just face it . There's no need in even stating that .
I'm in the same boat but I love it because it's a challenge and I know with hard work I will overcome that .

Vehicle user have many more skill points invested and before 1.7 , it took ... so it seems , a lot more only to have some one with a militia swarm and some basic A.V. grenades to come and kill that investment and role . Be happy that your not fighting to have your role nerfed . Players just started using PM's and RE's on a regular , except for those dedicated to A.V. which like now .. are very few . Hell before 1.7.. I can't recall seeing some die in the kill feed by a RE or PM .

Another thing that I have a problem with is the fact that the map and passive scanners have a problem with picking up tanks at times , also looking with my eye .. it seems like they have a invisible mode , like the swarms pre 1.7 . Now I don't know if that has something to do with rendering , which has gotten much better but this needs to be addressed and has been brought up on several occasions .

RE's, sadly, didn't stick before, so they were essentially only good for guarding an installation or two.

I've gotta wonder though, what kind of tank were you using, dying to militia swarms? I only had about 4 million invested in tanks (Didn't even have hardeners) and I could tank militia swarms all day long. Two heavy reppers usually kept me going long enough to clear out any infantry. It was only when the advanced and prototype started coming along that I got worried... though... I did have at least one time where two people with militia swarms kept strafing in and out of cover behind a supply depot. I sat there too long like an idiot and they actually managed to wear me down and kill me. Probably one of the only times I ever died to anything that wasn't advanced or proto, but it really was my own fault in that case. I could have just driven away and waited for them to come after me instead of sitting there trying to hit a few strafers.

I believe someone stated this had to do to vehicles having their suit's scan profile. It's something that I don't think CCP is even going to bother to address, but from what I've heard, every vehicle has the scan profile of the suit that's piloting it instead of its' own profile, so most suits can't detect them. I can see them fine on my scanning scout's passive radar, so I'm pretty sure this isn't a rumor. Why it hasn't been fixed yet, I have no idea.

And it seems like your mad that you can't solo a tank anymore . Now does this sound like children arguing or can the adults come out to have a discussion?

My Suggestion, make Large turrets pretty ineffective against infantry forcing the use of small turrets as anti infantry and here's how it can be done.

Large Missle Turret: Lower splash damage to 1 meter making near direct hits mandatory, that combined with a slow rotation it already has means it can direct hit other vehicles but be rough at taking out infantry.

Rail Turret: Lower splash to 1 meter as well making direct hits where it's useful for taking out vehicles.

Blaster Turrets: Give them a massive spread on their shots while upping their damage so that they can compete for damage on large targets like vehicles but again be fairly ineffective when trying to mow down infantry.

Rail Turret could do even less than 1m splash and still be useful for its role.

Missile Turrets I STRONGLY disagree with nerfing splash radius on, but I wouldn't object to the splash DAMAGE being reduced (not the radius). Make it so that Large Missiles deal high direct damage and a small amount of splash damage, but that splash still hits a wide radius.

And Blasters are MEANT to be anti-infantry. There are two ways Blaster Turrets can be balanced. The first option is to define them into the anti-infantry role they seem to be filling at the moment by treating them the same way as any other anti-infantry weapons. Nerf them against vehicles, give them a damage reduction effect. It might not be as harsh as what Assault Rifles get, but they shouldn't be hitting full force on another tank if they're meant to be anti-infantry. The other option is to make them the close-range specialist weapons that Gallente are famous for. Let them remain powerful, but only within an EXTREMELY limited range.

Does it take teamwork to kill a heavy in most cases ??? Will it take teamwork to kill heavies and sentinels in 1.8 ??? Unless your a heavy I would think so for the most part , even more so the fact that damage mods will be changing .

But I guess come Monday we will see .

You need to infantry more bro, it doesn't take heavies or groups to kill heavies, if you blindside them they are dead before they can turn around, which is likely as they are slow moving and slow turning. Tanks though? I can blind side one of those with my proto forge gun and there's still a good chance that they can mow me down or one shot me before I kill them in the 20 seconds it takes with their hardeners up. You have to try to fail (IE sit there and not retreat or shoot them) in a tank to die to a solo av.

But you see that's why people hate tanks, because you guys are so disillusioned that you actually think a scout/assualt suit fighting a heavy is in the same ballpark as a swarm/plc/forge fighting a tank. Many weapons can insta gib a heavy and you can outrun them. You can't outrun tanks and the one weapon that can insta gib, the remote mine field, is immobile or requires the tank to sit there and let you stick explosives to them. In your analogy terms, that would be like a heavy suit letting an assault suit rifle butt them to death. You can jihad jeep but they are removing stickies in 1.8 because CCP won't stop listening to bad advice, because all it took was seeing the target and shooting it to blow them up. If jihad jeeps were OP then so are scouts with shotguns.

No one is saying, and I mean no one, that CCP doesn't make mistakes so it's moot to say what a blaster turret is meant for.

Like I said and will say again, it has to be 1 to 1. If someone has an anti tank weapon it shouldn't require teamwork unless the tank requires teamwork. Making the Turrets Anti-vehicle was my suggestion to doing this but there are many others including making the large turret a weapon used by another occupant kind of like how the main guns in borderlands are not operated by the driver.

Teamwork for Teamwork or no teamwork requirement, pick one and quit being douche bags.

Edit: I know that last statement is harsh but it's true, there isn't a day that goes by where the major arguement for anti balance is the "The pendulum swung the other way give us our imbalance time nows!" Wreaks of douche bag and is universally used as a defense in this game for bad mechanics. This community is hands down why this game sucks so much and CCP can't get it together. It's full of selfish pricks that would rather the game die in obscurity then flourish without their exploits.

Can you defeat a heavy alone ... in a suit that's not bricked out or as a scout with a maxed out shotgun ??? If not then you have your answer and whatever you write truly has no merit .

Tanks use to have higher sp sinks, but with overpowered militia tanks, there is no incentive to skill into them. With tanks having a higher sp sink, they should require at least two people to destroy it relatively easily. Tanks potentially cost more than AV, but again, with overpowered militia tanks, this is severely clouded. For a tank to be truly effective, they require higher sp investments, but again, militia offers no incentive due to being far to effective and efficient. The problem is, the moment vehicles are EASILY susceptible to AV again, the moment a vehicle appears, you'll see 3-4 AV players looking for easy points, destroy it, and go back to killing infantry. I know this a pilot. ADS were not that effective pre 1.7, yet you'd see 4 forge guns or swarmers after you, even though you haven't done anything to really provoke them, and get shot down within seconds of entering their air space. So I'm not for getting killed by 3 assault forges hunting me down... again.

Well like I said my suggestion is to change the large turrets to force the use of the smaller turrets for anti infantry and therefor force teamwork. SP sinks alone should not justify a force multiplier. And no one is talking about dropships here, dropships are fine. Can they be soloed? Yes if the pilot doesn't disengage, which dropships are the most capable of disengaging from anything other than a rail turret which leads back to the OP nature of tanks. You have a vehicle that can zip around the map and literally drop squads on any target. Begging to be a killing machine is the same as Logis begging to be a killing machine. You are fully capable of killing especially in an ADS. You also are the best support vehicle available when utilized properly. Also, none of anything going on in this thread had anything to do with dropships so not sure why you brought them up.

Edit: Also it sounds like you literally want to be able to fly around and kill all the infantry without them responding? You're in a flying ship harassing players, you are going to be a target. I don't whine when I'm in a dropship mowing people down and they respond. I feel bad when they don't, as obviously there team is very bad if they don't respond to threats. That's what you do in team based shooters. You shoot each other.

Well like I said, I don't advocate soloing tanks I advocate 1 to 1. If tanks require teamwork to kill they should require teamwork to operate effectively.

So your advocating soloing because you can't have it both ways .

Do you ever read the posts you quote? This is the third time you quoted something from me where I distinctly said the opposite of what you claim.