DUST Search - The Reason This Is Happening .

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:

JLAV's are one v.s. one if done right and that method was not used until 1.7 .

HAV's should not be required to have multiple operators unless that is required for LAV's and Drop ships .

Not having to fit turrets was one of the best things that CCP could have done in their revamp of vehicles for 1.7 . I was a big opponent of that suggestion but now I see the light . I drove tanks that had PRO turrets during 1.6 and those who manned turrets were some of the problems of HAV users . Shooting at everything except other HAV's and threats , also they would bail in the middle of tank battles and troop engagements .... not knowing the outcome , knowing what mods were fitted and not trusting that said knowledge or experience of the HAV operator . Why hop in , for the ride ??? Or maybe it's the chance to ride off with the vehicle if the user hops out to deal with opposing troops .

Having turrets shoot at friendly troops , buildings or the MCC more than the enemies was a big problem and actually it still is .. even with ammo exceptions . I hop out from time to time to deal with A.V. while driving and if HAV's are forced to have multiple users then vehicle robberies will become more of a problem , hell ... I fly I drop hives and uplinks , when I do I frequently have to worry about someone flying off with my Dropships and that's a problem that shouldn't be while trying to help that same team to victory .

You have selfish players who care nothing about winning ... why reward them and that's what would happen . It seems like most people that play this game make suggestions that are not well thought out in regards of others and that's no surprise when you have team killers in FW , players who hop in someone's vehicle .. waiting for them to jump out , so they can ride off leaving it's owner . These are known issues of vehicle users .

If I'm not a logi , then I shouldn't have to use my skill points to build up someone else's playing experience .

People who suggest such are not vehicle users because vehicle users know the problems that they face .

Why are players crossing lines trying to influence changes to roles that they do not play ?


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 240	Posted - 2014.03.21 18:49:00 - [1] - Quote There's currently one effective way to destroy a tank at the moment that isn't bringing in another tank, and that way is RE's. Good luck doing that when there are five tanks on the field. Forge guns have gotten too much of a nerf, even soloing a militia tank with a proto forge gun is nearly impossible unless that pilot is exceptionally bad. There's just not much point in trying to AV at this point. Tanks are far more effective than any AV you can pull out short of RE's, and if you're actually trying to use proto, you're risking way more than most tankers trying to kill what is likely a militia tank. At the same time, going with AV makes you nearly useless against infantry, while that tank you're shooting at has no problem tearing apart vehicles and infantry alike. Fix AV and you fix the problem. Tanks won't be spammed as much because people will be able to kill all those pesky militia tanks with the proto fits they invested in instead of just starting another game of tank spam. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 242	Posted - 2014.03.21 20:04:00 - [2] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Squagga wrote: It's not so much that tanks are OP it's that tanks are so cheap to not only aquire but be able to purchase over and over again. One big problem I have with AV is having to fight off the entire enemy team while I'm fighting off a tank. The only weapon I've never used to take down a tank is plasma launcher cause that weapon is fuuuuuucken broken. Not to mention it's Gallente. Also I have to put more points into AV when I'm already skilling into other things, most importantly assault, for me. Again the biggest problem, in my eyes, is the cost. It costs more for a dropsuit loadout than most tanks? The fucks up with that? I can agree with that . But militia tanks are cheep and a price increase needs to be in order also a change to the performance of militia vehicle mods . I don't wan't militia tanks to be glass cannons but they should not be able to compete if that same person has not invested a single skill point into vehicles , now that's just wrong . A zero investment shouldn't be able to compete with a player who has invested millions and much less thousands of skill points into vehicle usage . Gotta point out the flaw here, even if I "partially" agree with the argument. While SP investment is good, making militia tanks weak like they were before isn't necessarily the answer. Just because I'm using a militia starter frame doesn't mean proto suits should be invincible to my gunfire. Granted, I'll have to play tactically to kill them, a straight up fight is just going to leave me dead, but just because they have more invested doesn't mean they should be invincible to anything below them on the SP tier. The same should go for dropsuits as it goes for tanks. Right now, militia tanks are a bit much for their effectiveness, but they're no where near what an upgraded tank is. Double damage modded rail tanks are about the only argument otherwise, and those are mostly a problem because of the redline. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 255	Posted - 2014.03.22 15:16:00 - [3] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Beeeees wrote: Your tinfoil hat may be a bit tight man. The reason nobody switches to AV because its safer to ignore and avoid. I was running a militia forgegun fit today, and one thing I learned was that while proper assault derpships were at least managable in an area denial sort of way, a properly fit HAV ate the shots and asked for more. HAVs really are OP, in that you would need multiple dedicated AVs vs a single dedicated tanker. When 4 tanks roam the map on one team, you simply cant have the manpower to keep them in check. If vehicles were capped by type, this **** wouldnt happen. 2 LAVs, 2 HAVs, 2 DS max per team, problem solved. Then HAVs are okay as they are, because in that case they arent spammable to kingdom come. Safer to avoid and ignore but you would like something done . You don't want to put up an effort but you would just like CCP to kill the role of vehicle users , while you sit back and laugh because you had a role killed with no effort on your part to combat the " problem " . This is the problem and most feel this way and that's a even bigger problem . Cap a role ??? So I could suggest that , no more than 2 logi's per match , 3 heavies and 2 scouts while the rest have to be assault's . Does that help ??? I don't think so . If your using a militia FG then that's part of the problem right there . Some of you people just " fear monger " to the best of your abilities . How would limiting the number of tanks possible in a match kill the roll? It certainly didn't kill it in Battlefield. Tanks are deadly there, even with the limited number, they're still a force to be reckoned with. To get more than two or three on most maps though, you have to steal one from the enemy team. Is it the best fix... no. Would it work and solve most of the issues? Probably. All this would mean would be that those two tanks on the field have a lot more to do on their own, just like a pair of logi suits would if they were the only ones to heal on the field. In other words, more WP for them. And that problem with running a militia forge fun... it doesn't really matter if you're alone. I've got a proto forge with maxed out proficiency and more often than not, I put three or four shots into tanks, only to watch them speed away into the sunset... or on city maps, just go around the next corner while their HP fills up. Dropships on the other hand usually just shoot away after the first shot or two, far our of my maximum range. Most of the complaints on tanks are far from "fear mongering" There's just currently no way to effectively deal with tank spam short of hiding and hoping everyone on the enemy team who's not running a tank is a horrible player. Now, say, if the battles were larger (Perhaps 32vs32) a bit of tank spam might not be a problem, but with the tiny matches we have now, you have to take into account that not everyone has enough points into AV to effective deal with even a single tank. The amount of militia swarms I see fired at vehicles on a daily basis is hilarious. Even if half a team consisted of competent AV'ers, that leaves eight guys to defend those AV's against a larger infantry force, who, more likely than not, are not gimping their effectiveness against other infantry in order to kill a load of tanks that just got called in. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 263	Posted - 2014.03.23 04:09:00 - [4] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Also a cap might do more harm than good as well seeing as how , the enemies might spawn tanks ... while the team your on is calling for militia drop ships and LAV's . Can you tell me that would seem interesting to you , seeing as how a lot of players choose not to combat " tank spam " with A.V. also , like what was stated before .. some just don't have the skill points to speck or they just read the forums and decide that specking into SL's would be a waste . You would just be stuck with no way out . I see where you're coming from. I know I've had a few games where I wanted to call in a LAV or dropship to get to the objective or set up a few drop uplinks around the map, but the quota had already been reached and I had to run all the way to the objective. It's annoying, to say the least. As for the cap, it would obviously need to be set on something like two or three tanks max per game, with dropships and LAV's sharing a different pool to avoid a bunch of LAV's being called in and completely disabling a team's tanking ability. As for the militia bit, if they're that bad, they won't last long and you can then call in your vehicle after they die. Or be a douche and find a way to get them killed quicker In the end though, CCP will likely go overboard like they usually do and nerf or buff things into oblivion. They really should take some tips from Dice when it comes to balancing, because as is, they can never seem to get it right (Though 1.6 was definitely better in terms of vehicles, assuming of course you had your fitting all worked out) Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 265	Posted - 2014.03.23 08:57:00 - [5] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: JLAV's are one v.s. one if done right and that method was not used until 1.7 . HAV's should not be required to have multiple operators unless that is required for LAV's and Drop ships . Not having to fit turrets was one of the best things that CCP could have done in their revamp of vehicles for 1.7 . I was a big opponent of that suggestion but now I see the light . I drove tanks that had PRO turrets during 1.6 and those who manned turrets were some of the problems of HAV users . Shooting at everything except other HAV's and threats , also they would bail in the middle of tank battles and troop engagements .... not knowing the outcome , knowing what mods were fitted and not trusting that said knowledge or experience of the HAV operator . Why hop in , for the ride ??? Or maybe it's the chance to ride off with the vehicle if the user hops out to deal with opposing troops . Having turrets shoot at friendly troops , buildings or the MCC more than the enemies was a big problem and actually it still is .. even with ammo exceptions . I hop out from time to time to deal with A.V. while driving and if HAV's are forced to have multiple users then vehicle robberies will become more of a problem , hell ... I fly I drop hives and uplinks , when I do I frequently have to worry about someone flying off with my Dropships and that's a problem that shouldn't be while trying to help that same team to victory . You have selfish players who care nothing about winning ... why reward them and that's what would happen . It seems like most people that play this game make suggestions that are not well thought out in regards of others and that's no surprise when you have team killers in FW , players who hop in someone's vehicle .. waiting for them to jump out , so they can ride off leaving it's owner . These are known issues of vehicle users . If I'm not a logi , then I shouldn't have to use my skill points to build up someone else's playing experience . People who suggest such are not vehicle users because vehicle users know the problems that they face . Why are players crossing lines trying to influence changes to roles that they do not play ? I'm not entirely sure whether you wanted this directed at a single person or everyone here, but eh... There are always going to be selfish players in games, it's the internet (Poor excuse perhaps, but true) no matter what game you play, you're going to come across trolls and people who's who goal in the game is to try and ruin the experience of others. CCP knew it would happen when they introduced friendly fire in factional warfare. Heck, I had a tank try to run over a LAV I'd stolen earlier today in an attempt to kill me. He nearly succeeded too, and I've had a few cases of teamkillers (attempted and otherwise) in factional warfare. I've never intentionally shot someone there, but I have attempted to troll a few players, and I've gotten teamkills (accidental, like running over someone with a tank) as well as a few intentional road kills against friendly LAV's during moments of boredom. That can't be stopped, no matter how hard you try, it's going to happen, you can either rage or let it slide away, retaliate perhaps if that's your thing (Teamkilling works both ways) The vehicle thefts are annoying too, but until we get vehicle locks, that's going to remain as well, unfortunately... So far in this thread alone, I've seen a few decent suggestions, and quite a few more as a whole among the community. Some good, some bad, but there have definitely been suggestions that could fix the current problem. The only thing left to do is see if CCP does the right thing and finds a way to balance things so both sides can enjoy themselves. People are going to complain no matter what though. Take 1.8 for example, everyone wants a respec, they get a dropsuit respec, now more complaints are going out for a full respec. You simply can't please everyone. And, as for that last bit... I don't personally know how many people have spent time with HAV's (fighting them or otherwise) but I started tanking a few months before Uprising. I fell in love with it. When the respec hit, I still loved it, but I was always broke. Tanks were expensive and AV was powerful. A single person with a proto swarm or forge gun could send me running. On the other hand though, even though I didn't use hardeners, I could sit there and tank half the team if they were running militia swarms. Even advanced swarms didn't really phase me that much. It was only when the proto came out that I got worried, which technically made sense as I only had an advanced vehicle (Real shame that proto tanks weren't better or I would have invested in them) So, long story short, I've got a fair bit of experience with tanks. I specced out of them when 1.7 hit and haven't had an interest since, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to be balanced, just like the majority of players on here. P.S. I believe CCP said that the JLAV thing was a mistake and I think they may be removing it come 1.8, though I'm not entirely certain. It's currently one of those things that I think should stay unless the prices of tanks go back up, but I doubt it will and I just hope things will be balanced before they remove it. Until then... Primes flux grenades and checks RE's I'll see all you lovely rolling death machines on the battlefield. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 268	Posted - 2014.03.23 15:04:00 - [6] - Quote Quote: I personally am not mad that I can't solo a tank. I'm mad that over multiple lives of nothing but dedicated attacks on a single tank. It WILL NOT DIE. There is no single piece of AV tech that can reliably kill a tank without millions of SP invested, which to a new player trying to get core upgrades finished, is impossible. Hell I managed to stick 3 REs on an oblivious tanker, all right on the weak point. 1/3rd of his health left. Just drove away. I had specifically wasted SP on getting into demolitions for this purpose. It is still a waste of time. For some unknown reason militia HAVs are the only counter CCP feels the need to put into the game for new players right now. Top it all off it is only going to get worse come 1.8. That it was they are everywhere. People aren't going to roll over and let you stomp them forever. Just gonna toss this out there, seeing as you brought up RE's. This is the one effective AV method at the moment, but you need to get a routine going when you do it. RE's don't do quite enough damage, even at the weak point on a tank (Which is kinda silly) to kill them with three alone. Next time you're going out, grab some flux grenades or packed AV (Lv 1 or 2 is grenadier is all you need, that's only a few thousand extra SP) and hit the vehicle with a grenade after you get your RE's. Make sure you've still got them out, and immediately after the grenade hits, detonate the RE's. Assuming you got all three on the weak point, a single flux will ensure that only two things survive (A hardened tank and a Gunlogi with a shield extender) and since most people run Madrugers and Somas, this is a cheap and nearly 100% effective way of dealing with tanks. Note that all this works best in a scout suit, but if you're not using a scout, I'd recommend a pair of complex dampeners to ensure they can't get you with their scanners. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 269	Posted - 2014.03.23 15:15:00 - [7] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Altus Nox wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Delta 749 wrote: I like how you rant about people not using AV when AV is broken and I dont mean UP I mean some of it is fundamentally broken and then you whine about people using militia tanks instead of AV when tanks are better for tank busting and cheaper as well But hey, blame everyone else, its not you using something broken as a crutch And it seems like your mad that you can't solo a tank anymore . Now does this sound like children arguing or can the adults come out to have a discussion? There is no single piece of AV tech that can reliably kill a tank without millions of SP invested, which to a new player trying to get core upgrades finished, is impossible. As a newer player you are always going to play catch up , just face it . There's no need in even stating that . I'm in the same boat but I love it because it's a challenge and I know with hard work I will overcome that . Vehicle user have many more skill points invested and before 1.7 , it took ... so it seems , a lot more only to have some one with a militia swarm and some basic A.V. grenades to come and kill that investment and role . Be happy that your not fighting to have your role nerfed . Players just started using PM's and RE's on a regular , except for those dedicated to A.V. which like now .. are very few . Hell before 1.7.. I can't recall seeing some die in the kill feed by a RE or PM . RE's, sadly, didn't stick before, so they were essentially only good for guarding an installation or two. I've gotta wonder though, what kind of tank were you using, dying to militia swarms? I only had about 4 million invested in tanks (Didn't even have hardeners) and I could tank militia swarms all day long. Two heavy reppers usually kept me going long enough to clear out any infantry. It was only when the advanced and prototype started coming along that I got worried... though... I did have at least one time where two people with militia swarms kept strafing in and out of cover behind a supply depot. I sat there too long like an idiot and they actually managed to wear me down and kill me. Probably one of the only times I ever died to anything that wasn't advanced or proto, but it really was my own fault in that case. I could have just driven away and waited for them to come after me instead of sitting there trying to hit a few strafers. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 269	Posted - 2014.03.23 15:18:00 - [8] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Another thing that I have a problem with is the fact that the map and passive scanners have a problem with picking up tanks at times , also looking with my eye .. it seems like they have a invisible mode , like the swarms pre 1.7 . Now I don't know if that has something to do with rendering , which has gotten much better but this needs to be addressed and has been brought up on several occasions . I believe someone stated this had to do to vehicles having their suit's scan profile. It's something that I don't think CCP is even going to bother to address, but from what I've heard, every vehicle has the scan profile of the suit that's piloting it instead of its' own profile, so most suits can't detect them. I can see them fine on my scanning scout's passive radar, so I'm pretty sure this isn't a rumor. Why it hasn't been fixed yet, I have no idea. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!