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CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1058	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:58:00 - [31] - Quote The heavy and the HMG will still be fine in 1.8. The heavy is in a good place now and it certainly does not need further nerfs. However Aeon has a very good point about some of the weapons, specifically the AR and its lol-nerfed-to-the-ground variants. I'm not saying the AR`s should own heavies in CQC but they should still be great in CQC as Gallente blaster tech is meant to be the highest DPS lowest range. Then again I'm going from how it is in EVE, the Devs seem to pick and choose the bits they like to stick to cannon on. Investigate 9/11
xSivartx D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 33	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:02:00 - [32] - Quote I'll state this again. With the HMG prof being changed to only buff armor damage and damage mods being reduced, this will keep the HMG in line. However, I think the heavy suits and weapons need an ISK increase. Back in beta a full proto heavy would cost me near 400K That would surely deter spam of the suit.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3295	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:04:00 - [33] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. In CQC the heavy needs to be absolutely undisputed. He moves slow and has no other application whatsoever. Not "in a good place". The absolute best and always winning. Other CQC options should be inferior to the heavy's, because they come with the benefit of increased mobility, the ability to cloak and set up kills, and better scan precision for situational awareness. The heavy is a gigantic flashing "Here I am, *******" beacon with a giant gun attached to it. He has to be absolutely dominant in direct combat. The heavy will be fine in 1.8, leave him alone.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1163	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:11:00 - [34] - Quote xSivartx wrote: I'll state this again. With the HMG prof being changed to only buff armor damage and damage mods being reduced, this will keep the HMG in line. However, I think the heavy suits and weapons need an ISK increase. Back in beta a full proto heavy would cost me near 400K That would surely deter spam of the suit. I think all proto gear needs to be majorly bumped up in price, from the suits and weapons all the way down to the modules. Less people would run it in pub matches and those who do would loose much more. You'd have to refund all ISK items at current market value first though and make people rebuy items at the new prices to make it work, but it would make protosuits a "special occasion" suit again instead of the spam suit it is right now. It should cost 2-3 games worth of ISK so if you loose one you have to think long and hard about risking another one, like back in Chromosome.. MAG ~ Raven
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3297	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:12:00 - [35] - Quote xSivartx wrote: I'll state this again. With the HMG prof being changed to only buff armor damage and damage mods being reduced, this will keep the HMG in line. However, I think the heavy suits and weapons need an ISK increase. Back in beta a full proto heavy would cost me near 400K That would surely deter spam of the suit. Remove light weapons from heavies and logis. Problem solved. Now people are playing their roles correctly. And those roles are not altogether appealing to as many people as you'd think.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5242	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:13:00 - [36] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. In CQC the heavy needs to be absolutely undisputed. He moves slow and has no other application whatsoever. Not "in a good place". The absolute best and always winning. Other CQC options should be inferior to the heavy's, because they come with the benefit of increased mobility, the ability to cloak and set up kills, and better scan precision for situational awareness. The heavy is a gigantic flashing "Here I am, *******" beacon with a giant gun attached to it. He has to be absolutely dominant in direct combat. The heavy will be fine in 1.8, leave him alone. Than I'd like to throw in my hat for Gallente Assault + Assault Rifle to be the absolute king of CQC outside of that. Gallente Assault should require teamwork to kill and it's only counter should be a Heavy with an HMG because it's slow, like the Gallente Assault and it's armor. It should take -at least- five people to kill a Gallente Assault. I'm thinking bonuses like: +10% Blaster Weapon damage and +10% reduction to incoming Light Weapon Damage. Absolutely undisputed. EDIT: Absolute best and always winning is a surefire sign for bad balance brosef. There needs to be counters to things like this. NOTHING should be 'always winning'. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
noob cavman Expert Intervention Caldari State 799	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:13:00 - [37] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. In CQC the heavy needs to be absolutely undisputed. He moves slow and has no other application whatsoever. Not "in a good place". The absolute best and always winning. Other CQC options should be inferior to the heavy's, because they come with the benefit of increased mobility, the ability to cloak and set up kills, and better scan precision for situational awareness. The heavy is a gigantic flashing "Here I am, *******" beacon with a giant gun attached to it. He has to be absolutely dominant in direct combat. The heavy will be fine in 1.8, leave him alone. Il be honest I don't want to touch the heavy in any way. I just want my shotgun prof bonus to stay they way it is. I am your counter, I am your shadowy bane raptor jumping to pump your spine full of lead. I need that rof bonus to do my job of killing you from behind. I will not even begin to talk on heavy vs med combat. Il leave that to fellow metal friend amadi with his big words XD I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK British ninja cowboy scout, logi, heavy
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1410	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:15:00 - [38] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I predict Heavy514 with a some scouts hiding under every other rock for 1.8. I'm thinkin.... minnie scout, AMD, nova knife, compact hive, cloak, flux grenades. Knife the heavy. If he turns around before you can finish him, he's already in his armor so one MD shot while retreating should do the job. Also, great for sneaking onto roofs to eliminate snipers and rain down destruction from high places. Think about it, a MD capable of hitting you and disappearing only to reappear 15 seconds later behind you! Or a MD on the roof raining hell and disappearing as soon as you go after him just to appear on another roof 30 seconds later! I WILL BE THE MD NINJA! Edit: sentinals @ PRO will have a 25% resistance to blast damage, but with the MD buff plus combining it with flux grenades, they will still do some damage. I estimate 5-6 shots for the heaviest armor heavies as long as they have no reps and the flux drops all of their shields. three basic re, four advanced re, five proto re, ammar logi boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, ........ hey folks those heavies we re killed sent hatemail....lol. Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3297	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:18:00 - [39] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. In CQC the heavy needs to be absolutely undisputed. He moves slow and has no other application whatsoever. Not "in a good place". The absolute best and always winning. Other CQC options should be inferior to the heavy's, because they come with the benefit of increased mobility, the ability to cloak and set up kills, and better scan precision for situational awareness. The heavy is a gigantic flashing "Here I am, *******" beacon with a giant gun attached to it. He has to be absolutely dominant in direct combat. The heavy will be fine in 1.8, leave him alone. Than I'd like to throw in my hat for Gallente Assault + Assault Rifle to be the absolute king of CQC outside of that. Gallente Assault should require teamwork to kill and it's only counter should be a Heavy with an HMG because it's slow, like the Gallente Assault and it's armor. It should take -at least- five people to kill a Gallente Assault. I'm thinking bonuses like: +10% Blaster Weapon damage and +10% reduction to incoming Light Weapon Damage. Absolutely undisputed. The AR needs a buff to its damage, and a decrease to its accuracy. It needs to work in the same way that the AR from Halo works. All other stereotypes have been filled.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7473	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:21:00 - [40] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: well considering before the 10% dmg buff to the HMG, the HMG was just a giant BB gun that tickles the enemies armor. so technically the HMG is fine where it is now. unless of course everyone just wants a broken HMG so they can kill the heavies more easier. then you'll just see a surge of RR/CR/SCR heavies once the HMG is dead. They also decreased the accuracy, which was a major reason why the HMG was underperforming, it was too accurate. Remove that ROF buff and it would still be god mode. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514

Rusty Shallows 1140	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:32:00 - [41] - Quote The current Big-Four Rifles are still better, including inside any HMG optimal. The December patch just closed the difference so they aren't easy +50s anymore. If the HMG was in such a good place people still wouldn't be flocking to rifles instead using a heavy weapon as the Sentinel Frame was intended. It is really annoying to hear someone who just stopped using an HMG to brag on the headset about his new rising kill-board scores. I am concerned on the buffer somewhat. I am concerned whenever buffing and nerfing are done at the same time. In the case of the stacking damage mod nerf and the groundbreaking changes to what was this game's Sacred Cows the original hit-point total might have been better. It is hard to tease out an answer since foot work is about to become far more important for everyone. People who can already shield skirmish against HMG Sentinels are getting a big buff. If the HMG does need a change for once in CCP's history I pray it is a rebalance. Nerfing a terrible design approach, rarely fixes anything, makes the game developers look lazy and incompetent regardless of the facts. Outright nerfing should be a last resort not a knee-jerk reaction. That being said I'm not sure what tweaks could be done for a close-quarters bullet-hose. Maybe lower damage and remove overheat with a magazine increase to make it a suppression weapon? Lower damage and increase range for better area denial? If there are any perceived issues with the HMGs I'm seriously begging people to think on how the weapon is supposed to viably fit into this game. My concerns right now are for shotguns which may end up being indirectly nerfed into weak-sauce come Uprising 1.8 the reckoning. I haven't even touched them since Chrome so there isn't any self-interest involved. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1064	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:34:00 - [42] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: well considering before the 10% dmg buff to the HMG, the HMG was just a giant BB gun that tickles the enemies armor. so technically the HMG is fine where it is now. unless of course everyone just wants a broken HMG so they can kill the heavies more easier. then you'll just see a surge of RR/CR/SCR heavies once the HMG is dead. They also decreased the accuracy, which was a major reason why the HMG was underperforming, it was too accurate. Remove that ROF buff and it would still be god mode. well we never asked for a ROF buff just a dmg buff but you know how CCP is, always doing things their way YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Rusty Shallows 1140	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:45:00 - [43] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: well we never asked for a ROF buff just a dmg buff but you know how CCP is, always doing things their way However it did make sense for the change to the HMG Operation skill. Which originally was a harsh and pointless nerf that left allot of us scratching our heads. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 974	Posted - 2014.03.17 20:54:00 - [44] - Quote I love this attitude of the Sentinel users. Well I'm a heavy so I should be able to kill anything and everything I see. It should take multiple assaults to take me down, just engage at range, etc..etc... Now where have I heard these sort of arguments before?...hmmmmm...oh yeah. that's right, it was tank drivers. And that has worked out really well for game balance hasn't it. I just wish for once people would look past their own selfish desires to be the most powerful badass in new Eden and actually critically look at imbalances.\ By the way, if you spec into the Sentinel for the first time in 1.8 don't start crying for a respec when the suits get nerfed in 1.9. Ask a Sentinel vet about the cycle of heavy buffs and nerfs. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 627	Posted - 2014.03.17 21:05:00 - [45] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: I love this attitude of the Sentinel users. Well I'm a heavy so I should be able to kill anything and everything I see. It should take multiple assaults to take me down, just engage at range, etc..etc... Now where have I heard these sort of arguments before?...hmmmmm...oh yeah. that's right, it was tank drivers. And that has worked out really well for game balance hasn't it. I just wish for once people would look past their own selfish desires to be the most powerful badass in new Eden and actually critically look at imbalances.\ By the way, if you spec into the Sentinel for the first time in 1.8 don't start crying for a respec when the suits get nerfed in 1.9. Ask a Sentinel vet about the cycle of heavy buffs and nerfs. Bullshit. What WE heavy players have always asked is a PLACE on the battlefield, A GODDAMN ROLE that non other can do better than US. for all that matter to me CCP can make us do the AV-Patrol or something else. i only e simply want a ROLE.CCP said that we are for point defense, so in point defense we MUST shine. IF a bricktanked LOgi or ass can kill an Heavy in cqc with ease, whats the point in bringing an heavy? Just bring a medium, you will have an equip too. 'Till now people only use BrickLOGIS and DMG-ASS with the most OP weapon they can find and just jump in front of an heavy and kill him. Now this don't work anymore. Amarr SCR user. Believe in the FORGE, young padawans C'èSoloDoloreSuCharlie
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 484	Posted - 2014.03.17 21:05:00 - [46] - Quote Tell someone it should take multiple people to take down a single person in a tank, and nobody bats an eye. Tell someone they should lose to a single heavy within 20m, and everyone loses their minds.
Oxskull Duncarino 0uter.Heaven 493	Posted - 2014.03.17 21:11:00 - [47] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: well considering before the 10% dmg buff to the HMG, the HMG was just a giant BB gun that tickles the enemies armor. so technically the HMG is fine where it is now. unless of course everyone just wants a broken HMG so they can kill the heavies more easier. then you'll just see a surge of RR/CR/SCR heavies once the HMG is dead. They also decreased the accuracy, which was a major reason why the HMG was underperforming, it was too accurate. Remove that ROF buff and it would still be god mode. Ya might want to stop smoking whatever you're smoking if ya really think that removing a fifth of the HMG's rate of fire would leave the HMG with "god mode" Until the patch notes come out, or a Dev posts in the meantime, we don't know if the shotgun is getting its proficiency changed. All that I've seen so far is that weapons that had both damage types increased due to proficiency were having that be changed to damage type specific. Lets hold our horses before seeing where we stand.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2417	Posted - 2014.03.17 21:11:00 - [48] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. In CQC the heavy needs to be absolutely undisputed. He moves slow and has no other application whatsoever. Not "in a good place". The absolute best and always winning. Other CQC options should be inferior to the heavy's, because they come with the benefit of increased mobility, the ability to cloak and set up kills, and better scan precision for situational awareness. The heavy is a gigantic flashing "Here I am, *****" beacon with a giant gun attached to it. He has to be absolutely dominant in direct combat. The heavy will be fine in 1.8, leave him alone. The smart money is usually on Aeon's analysis of things, but I'd have to agree that if even a gallente assault with a properly balanced AR (which is not what we will have in 1.8) meets up with a sentinel with an HMG within 20-30 meters, skill and meta level being equal, the sentinel should win. Pretty much every time. Double the range, the assault should win. Is that what we will have in 1.8? No, of course not. But it is nonetheless a fairly well balanced scenario. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5248	Posted - 2014.03.17 21:29:00 - [49] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. In CQC the heavy needs to be absolutely undisputed. He moves slow and has no other application whatsoever. Not "in a good place". The absolute best and always winning. Other CQC options should be inferior to the heavy's, because they come with the benefit of increased mobility, the ability to cloak and set up kills, and better scan precision for situational awareness. The heavy is a gigantic flashing "Here I am, *******" beacon with a giant gun attached to it. He has to be absolutely dominant in direct combat. The heavy will be fine in 1.8, leave him alone. The smart money is usually on Aeon's analysis of things, but I'd have to agree that if even a gallente assault with a properly balanced AR (which is not what we will have in 1.8) meets up with a sentinel with an HMG within 20-30 meters, skill and meta level being equal, the sentinel should win. Pretty much every time. Double the range, the assault should win. Is that what we will have in 1.8? No, of course not. But it is nonetheless a fairly well balanced scenario. I'm not saying that the Gal Assault should win, hands down - I'm just saying that it should be a toss up. CQC in a hallway where the Assault can't move, should definitely be in the Sentinel's favor. Have a bit of leeway for the Gal Assault to move around? He should definitely have the upper hand. Unfortunately, this isn't the case as long as turn speeds remain the same across all tiers of suits. A Heavy can turn just as fast as a Scout. In CQC, there's no downside to using a Sentinel - that's my primary complaint. Range is a good counter to the Sentinel, but it's also a good counter to the Gal Assault + AR. I want Sentinel's to have a role (though I'd argue they're the best if not the only long range AV available) but at the same time, Gallente Assault has to have a role too. If CQC isn't in his field, then it needs to be good at something else. EDIT: Crucial grammar error has been fixed. Also, an addition: I don't think that nerfs/buffs should be praised because "Logi's have been slayers for too long" - there's an innate flaw of bias when praising balance changes based on revenge Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 975	Posted - 2014.03.17 21:33:00 - [50] - Quote If point defense is all Sentinels could do...fine, but lets face the facts people have been using LAVs and other means to get around the heavy role forever and make it basically the most powerful infantry suit off an on since closed beta. Thus we have the cycle of heavy nerfs and buffs. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5249	Posted - 2014.03.17 21:41:00 - [51] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: If point defense is all Sentinels could do...fine, but lets face the facts people have been using LAVs and other means to get around the heavy role forever and make it basically the most powerful infantry suit off an on since closed beta. Thus we have the cycle of heavy nerfs and buffs. There's also Kin Cat Heavies which move faster than some Logi's =P Minmatar Sentinel with those is going to be beast just because of the built in passive defense on the suit. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 217	Posted - 2014.03.17 21:54:00 - [52] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: If point defense is all Sentinels could do...fine, but lets face the facts people have been using LAVs and other means to get around the heavy role forever and make it basically the most powerful infantry suit off an on since closed beta. Thus we have the cycle of heavy nerfs and buffs. There's also Kin Cat Heavies which move faster than some Logi's =P Minmatar Sentinel with those is going to be beast just because of the built in passive defense on the suit. Yepp, but with much less HP! I've been a logi so far. I tried to speed stamina tank most of my career. Then the new rifles hit and I had no choice, but to do the 1.7 credo: damage on the left and armor on the right. With the nerfed rifles, it will hopefully be possible to go towards speed/stamina again. And I plan to use the weakest heavy with an HMG and speed tank it. This means, that it will still be prey to the rifle users if they see me from afar. But if I get a jump on them they are easy prey hopefully. In the end we will see. If heavys are completely broken after the patch they will be nerfed again. If not they will be nerfed anyway, since the medium frame masterrace can't stand anything that kills it!
ARF 1049 The Phoenix Federation 62	Posted - 2014.03.17 22:02:00 - [53] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: If you look into the barrels of an HMG, you're supposed to die... It will finally be as it's supposed. If you want to get that heavie on the node, engage from a distance if possible, and for those CQC situations, grenades will still help, you just need some hives. Massdrivers will see a comeback for those situations. But mostly, CQC is heavy and sneaky scout territory. But there are enough places on the maps where mediums will still be the suits to use. But at 40m away the HMG shouldn't be effective, if you want to reduce TTK on everything else they have to edit the HMG just reduce it's ROF and optimal range... Sure the heavies will b**** but let them suffer like every other suit! heavies sipping around and back pedaling to get out of my shotguns 6 foot range and they are fine, same with RR buff the shotty or nerf the HMG then they can truly be skill matched not just the heavy back pedaling and winning. "You will never see me coming, as that of a shadow, invisible to your scanner and your eyes. Prepare your anus."
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 977	Posted - 2014.03.17 22:05:00 - [54] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: If point defense is all Sentinels could do...fine, but lets face the facts people have been using LAVs and other means to get around the heavy role forever and make it basically the most powerful infantry suit off an on since closed beta. Thus we have the cycle of heavy nerfs and buffs. There's also Kin Cat Heavies which move faster than some Logi's =P Minmatar Sentinel with those is going to be beast just because of the built in passive defense on the suit. Yepp, but with much less HP! I've been a logi so far. I tried to speed stamina tank most of my career. Then the new rifles hit and I had no choice, but to do the 1.7 credo: damage on the left and armor on the right. With the nerfed rifles, it will hopefully be possible to go towards speed/stamina again. And I plan to use the weakest heavy with an HMG and speed tank it. This means, that it will still be prey to the rifle users if they see me from afar. But if I get a jump on them they are easy prey hopefully. In the end we will see. If heavys are completely broken after the patch they will be nerfed again. If not they will be nerfed anyway, since the medium frame masterrace can't stand anything that kills it! Sadly, you are probably right. I want the Sentinel to be useful, even if I don't run them I have friends that do, and heck I run support logi so fat guys are my bread and butter. Yet I also don't think a game where Sentinels are only kill able by other Sentinels is good either. We'll see what happens in 1.8 but here's what I think need to be the "nerfs" to heavy: 1. Reduce the resistance from (at proto) 15% to racial enemy and 10% to racial ally to just the 15% to racial enemy 2. Give the HMG a damage nerf consistent with the reduced damage of rifles (so in the area of 10%) That's it, hardly role killing IMO Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 217	Posted - 2014.03.17 22:08:00 - [55] - Quote ARF 1049 wrote: But at 40m away the HMG shouldn't be effective, if you want to reduce TTK on everything else they have to edit the HMG just reduce it's ROF and optimal range... Sure the heavies will b**** but let them suffer like every other suit! heavies sipping around and back pedaling to get out of my shotguns 6 foot range and they are fine, same with RR buff the shotty or nerf the HMG then they can truly be skill matched not just the heavy back pedaling and winning. That's exactly it, at 40m in the hands of a caldari assault, the HMG will probably still be beat by the RR. The shotgun definitely needs to be powerful enough to give a scout the chance for a successfull surprise attack (in skilled hands).
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1708	Posted - 2014.03.17 22:19:00 - [56] - Quote shrug 90% of the heavies i face are utter trash, and they all die the same to my shotgun and soon to be CreoDron Ion Pistol. Anime > EVERYTHING
Oxskull Duncarino 0uter.Heaven 493	Posted - 2014.03.17 22:20:00 - [57] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: If point defense is all Sentinels could do...fine, but lets face the facts people have been using LAVs and other means to get around the heavy role forever and make it basically the most powerful infantry suit off an on since closed beta. Thus we have the cycle of heavy nerfs and buffs. There's also Kin Cat Heavies which move faster than some Logi's =P Minmatar Sentinel with those is going to be beast just because of the built in passive defense on the suit. Yepp, but with much less HP! I've been a logi so far. I tried to speed stamina tank most of my career. Then the new rifles hit and I had no choice, but to do the 1.7 credo: damage on the left and armor on the right. With the nerfed rifles, it will hopefully be possible to go towards speed/stamina again. And I plan to use the weakest heavy with an HMG and speed tank it. This means, that it will still be prey to the rifle users if they see me from afar. But if I get a jump on them they are easy prey hopefully. In the end we will see. If heavys are completely broken after the patch they will be nerfed again. If not they will be nerfed anyway, since the medium frame masterrace can't stand anything that kills it! Sadly, you are probably right. I want the Sentinel to be useful, even if I don't run them I have friends that do, and heck I run support logi so fat guys are my bread and butter. Yet I also don't think a game where Sentinels are only kill able by other Sentinels is good either. We'll see what happens in 1.8 but here's what I think need to be the "nerfs" to heavy: 1. Reduce the resistance from (at proto) 15% to racial enemy and 10% to racial ally to just the 15% to racial enemy 2. Give the HMG a damage nerf consistent with the reduced damage of rifles (so in the area of 10%) That's it, hardly role killing IMO Until all heavy AP weapons are in the game, no single heavy suit should be the only one that has a resistance to the only presently ingame heavy AP weapon, the HMG. Once they're all ingame, then I'd be well happy with reduction to just a single resistance. Truth be told, I don't think there should have been all the weapon specific damage resistance introduced. It's to much to fast without seeing how a few tweaks work. All that should have been brought in for 1.8 was the splash resistance. I've been a heavy for a long time, but even though I benefit from the changes I'm uncomfortable with them for the general game balance
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 293	Posted - 2014.03.18 00:03:00 - [58] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. You're not. I also think that the balance for heavies is in a fairly good place right now. Not perfect, but close. There are two changes in 1.8 that will directly affect this balance. Rifle nerfs, but no hmg nerf. This increases the hmg's relative power by ~(10% - 15%) Heavy Resistances. 25% reduction to splash damage and additional 10-15% damage resistances vs specific weapon types. This will make heavies tankier. Individually neither change seems to much, but I am worried that this will be a classic case of CCP nerfing and buffing simultaneously to produce a larger than intended result. Some of this might be mitigated by the potential assault role 10% rof bonus we saw on sisi, but that has not been confirmed yet afaik. So im worried. I really do not what to see 1.8 do to heavies what 1.7 did to tanks. EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 150	Posted - 2014.03.18 00:05:00 - [59] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: If you look into the barrels of an HMG, you're supposed to die... It will finally be as it's supposed. If you want to get that heavie on the node, engage from a distance if possible, and for those CQC situations, grenades will still help, you just need some hives. Massdrivers will see a comeback for those situations. But mostly, CQC is heavy and sneaky scout territory. But there are enough places on the maps where mediums will still be the suits to use. No. Open places-Tanks Cities/CQC hotspots-HMG Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 755	Posted - 2014.03.18 00:19:00 - [60] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. AR is not a counter for the hmg that would be ******, HMG is supposed to counter medium suits at close range. shotgun on a fast suit is a great counter for a heavy. the idea that you are supposed to counter a heavy by going toe to toe is ******, I cant take a heavy suit and go toe to toe face to face with a veh now can i? ARs are supposed to be meant at countering other light weapons in its optimum range as well as having a much larger jack of all trades use. really they should keep the ar dmg where it is and up its effective ranges by about 25% Honestly any heavy that is not capable to kill a scout by the time the scout needs to land 3 or 4 SG shots is just bad. Especially now that the RoF bonus will change to a shield damage bonus...the SG is NOT a counter to sentinals. If at all LR and RR will be counters to setinal as those weapons can keep them at distance and still delivers enough damage. The AR will be mostly dead in 1.8 (gets beaten by the Magsec ). I guess we will have a similar situation with sentinals like with vehicles: some good ones from the old days will come back but we will mostly see new heavies that will use the heavy as assault suit (mainly those who think hp tanking is the only way to play dust)



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