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Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5229	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:11:00 - [1] - Quote Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4677	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:17:00 - [2] - Quote Yeah, the HMG should be nerfed 5%, damage wise. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 755	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:19:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. Nope you are not...
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 11267	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:19:00 - [4] - Quote I predict Heavy514 with a some scouts hiding under every other rock for 1.8. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 214	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:20:00 - [5] - Quote If you look into the barrels of an HMG, you're supposed to die... It will finally be as it's supposed. If you want to get that heavie on the node, engage from a distance if possible, and for those CQC situations, grenades will still help, you just need some hives. Massdrivers will see a comeback for those situations. But mostly, CQC is heavy and sneaky scout territory. But there are enough places on the maps where mediums will still be the suits to use.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 823	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:22:00 - [6] - Quote My eyes will light up whenever i see a minmatar heavy and mow him down with his pathetic resists and hp These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1055	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:24:00 - [7] - Quote well considering before the 10% dmg buff to the HMG, the HMG was just a giant BB gun that tickles the enemies armor. so technically the HMG is fine where it is now. unless of course everyone just wants a broken HMG so they can kill the heavies more easier. then you'll just see a surge of RR/CR/SCR heavies once the HMG is dead. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 274	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:25:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. AR is not a counter for the hmg that would be ******, HMG is supposed to counter medium suits at close range. shotgun on a fast suit is a great counter for a heavy. the idea that you are supposed to counter a heavy by going toe to toe is ******, I cant take a heavy suit and go toe to toe face to face with a veh now can i? ARs are supposed to be meant at countering other light weapons in its optimum range as well as having a much larger jack of all trades use. really they should keep the ar dmg where it is and up its effective ranges by about 25%
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 11267	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:26:00 - [9] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: My eyes will light up whenever i see a minmatar heavy and mow him down with his pathetic resists and hp Considering a minimally tanked one will have 1200 EHP, you have fun with that. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5231	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:26:00 - [10] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: If you look into the barrels of an HMG, you're supposed to die... It will finally be as it's supposed. If you want to get that heavie on the node, engage from a distance if possible, and for those CQC situations, grenades will still help, you just need some hives. Massdrivers will see a comeback for those situations. But mostly, CQC is heavy and sneaky scout territory. But there are enough places on the maps where mediums will still be the suits to use. And the Gallente Assault with the Assault Rifle is where.. in that equation..? Chibi Andy wrote: well considering before the 10% dmg buff to the HMG, the HMG was just a giant BB gun that tickles the enemies armor. so technically the HMG is fine where it is now. unless of course everyone just wants a broken HMG so they can kill the heavies more easier. then you'll just see a surge of RR/CR/SCR heavies once the HMG is dead. Right, it's fine where it is -now- but what about in 1.8..? Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5235	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:31:00 - [11] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. AR is not a counter for the hmg that would be ******, HMG is supposed to counter medium suits at close range. shotgun on a fast suit is a great counter for a heavy. the idea that you are supposed to counter a heavy by going toe to toe is ******, I cant take a heavy suit and go toe to toe face to face with a veh now can i? ARs are supposed to be meant at countering other light weapons in its optimum range as well as having a much larger jack of all trades use. really they should keep the ar dmg where it is and up its effective ranges by about 25% AR isn't a counter for anything in 1.8. Apparently you'd be high to even consider using it when the other rifles out-DPS, out-range and in the case of the ACR, have less fitting costs than the AR. So using the argument that the AR is supposed to counter those is obviously flawed because it doesn't. It has trouble doing that in 1.7 - it's a toss up as to whether or not I'm going to win against any of the other rifles in my own optimal range. If ANY of the rifles should be good for taking out a sentinel with an HMG in CQC, by all rights it -should- be the AR because you're within the same optimal range; I don't like this viewpoint that a Heavy should always 100% win in CQC, hands-down. Maneuverability should trump the Sentinel but since we did away with turn speed caps they can turn just as fast as a Scout, so saying that a Scout with a Shotgun should be their counter is flawed as well, especially since it only has 4m optimal range, 20m max AND it's getting nerfed in 1.8 The thinking that "this should be the best because" is what got Tanks are powerful as they are. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 214	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:36:00 - [12] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: If you look into the barrels of an HMG, you're supposed to die... It will finally be as it's supposed. If you want to get that heavie on the node, engage from a distance if possible, and for those CQC situations, grenades will still help, you just need some hives. Massdrivers will see a comeback for those situations. But mostly, CQC is heavy and sneaky scout territory. But there are enough places on the maps where mediums will still be the suits to use. And the Gallente Assault with the Assault Rifle is where.. in that equation..? The Gallente assault is supposed to die as well, if it looks into an HMG wielded by a Gallente heavy. Medium frames are not the masterrace, that can anihilate everything else on the battlefield. The Gallente assault should be the frame that moves betwheen nodes in city maps to reinforce others. The suit for digging in is the heavy. Assault should be the conquerors, moving fast in packs to overwhelm enemy forces by sheer numbers. As is in real life, standard infantry is the expendeble cannonfodder. Infantry in all wars has been shoved into meatgrinders all over the world. BTW, I think Assault suits should be cheaper than all other suits, by at least 20%.
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1056	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:36:00 - [13] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: If you look into the barrels of an HMG, you're supposed to die... It will finally be as it's supposed. If you want to get that heavie on the node, engage from a distance if possible, and for those CQC situations, grenades will still help, you just need some hives. Massdrivers will see a comeback for those situations. But mostly, CQC is heavy and sneaky scout territory. But there are enough places on the maps where mediums will still be the suits to use. And the Gallente Assault with the Assault Rifle is where.. in that equation..? Chibi Andy wrote: well considering before the 10% dmg buff to the HMG, the HMG was just a giant BB gun that tickles the enemies armor. so technically the HMG is fine where it is now. unless of course everyone just wants a broken HMG so they can kill the heavies more easier. then you'll just see a surge of RR/CR/SCR heavies once the HMG is dead. Right, it's fine where it is -now- but what about in 1.8..? well in 1.8 we'll be having a tonne of heavies and a lot of armor (assuming majority picks GAL heavy), so unless you want the heavies to dance with one another trying to kill each other with a broken HMG that TTK will be a very long one if i remember correctly before the DMG buff to the HMG the proto was doing like 17dmg and that still takes a while to kill a medium frame and even more on a amarr heavy frame YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 11275	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:39:00 - [14] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: if i remember correctly before the DMG buff to the HMG the proto was doing like 17dmg and that still takes a while to kill a medium frame and even more on a amarr heavy frame 17 damage... At 2000 RPM. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
noob cavman Expert Intervention Caldari State 796	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:40:00 - [15] - Quote I hear that my shotgun is the counter to heavies. But if the prof skill is being changed to shield damage and not keeping the rof bonus. I see alot of death on my horizon from not being able to get that 4 shot off... I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK British ninja cowboy scout, logi, heavy
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 216	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:43:00 - [16] - Quote noob cavman wrote: I hear that my shotgun is the counter to heavies. But if the prof skill is being changed to shield damage and not keeping the rof bonus. I see alot of death on my horizon from not being able to get that 4 shot off... If the shotgun isn't good enough to give a sneaky scout the chance to kill that heavy, it needs to be buffed. Sneaky scouts should be able to take down a heavy, but only if undetected... and it still needs to be close (strafing involved and every shot connects).
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 513	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:44:00 - [17] - Quote It will probably be nerfed and then be buffed in a few decades. Unleash the Fogwoggler
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1410	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:45:00 - [18] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. no. scout suit , cloak . proto re on heavy +50 proto knifes on heavy +50 flux ,massdriver magsec to heavy back +50 Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3481	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:47:00 - [19] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: if i remember correctly before the DMG buff to the HMG the proto was doing like 17dmg and that still takes a while to kill a medium frame and even more on a amarr heavy frame 17 damage... At 2000 RPM. WE NEED MOAR DAKKA Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. I've got 3k likes, I'll double post if I want to dammit!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 11275	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:48:00 - [20] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8 Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance). I can't be the only one with this concern. no. scout suit , cloak . proto re on heavy +50 proto knifes on heavy +50 flux ,massdriver magsec to heavy back +50 Heavies can tank REs. Sometimes three, in edge cases. Proto knives are survivable for up to four strikes even if you charge initially. Flux will assist, but the only heavy it'll be really effective against will be the Minmatar one. And they all have a 25% blast resistance, so the mass driver is out the window. All heavies can tank a full magsec clip. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.

xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 1892	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:48:00 - [21] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I predict Heavy514 with a some scouts hiding under every other rock for 1.8. Many people originally left Dust in Uprising 1.0 because it was "slow". Slow movement, slow gameplay, "s"low framerate, "slow" ttk. With heavies (wich are notably slow) and cloaked scouts "waiting" for enemies, gameplay would be even slower than that, much slower for what we're used to. Will it be boring? In my opinion, maybe. >Bastard I : "Cce me ne... futt! XD"
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9973	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:48:00 - [22] - Quote +1 Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1059	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:48:00 - [23] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: if i remember correctly before the DMG buff to the HMG the proto was doing like 17dmg and that still takes a while to kill a medium frame and even more on a amarr heavy frame 17 damage... At 2000 RPM. yes that 17 dmg just tickles the enemies armor. 1 heavy vs 1 medium frame in CQC chances of the heavy losing is pretty high. just saying that by nerfing the HMG the heavy would pretty much lose its fighting ability in CQC, might as well all go with RR/CR/SCR in the end. then everyone will QQ that the heavies are OP with those weapons when the HMG has been nerfed. so nerfing the HMG you'll just push the heavies to use light weapons. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 216	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:53:00 - [24] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Heavies can tank REs. Sometimes three, in edge cases. Proto knives are survivable for up to four strikes even if you charge initially. Flux will assist, but the only heavy it'll be really effective against will be the Minmatar one. And they all have a 25% blast resistance, so the mass driver is out the window. Some heavies can tank a full magsec clip. Direct hits with the MD still do full damage! So you need to aim, and not only spam the floor. In the end, the heavy will need teamwork to take down or a sneaky scout to prepare him...
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5241	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:53:00 - [25] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: If you look into the barrels of an HMG, you're supposed to die... It will finally be as it's supposed. If you want to get that heavie on the node, engage from a distance if possible, and for those CQC situations, grenades will still help, you just need some hives. Massdrivers will see a comeback for those situations. But mostly, CQC is heavy and sneaky scout territory. But there are enough places on the maps where mediums will still be the suits to use. And the Gallente Assault with the Assault Rifle is where.. in that equation..? The Gallente assault is supposed to die as well, if it looks into an HMG wielded by a Gallente heavy. Medium frames are not the masterrace, that can anihilate everything else on the battlefield. The Gallente assault should be the frame that moves betwheen nodes in city maps to reinforce others. The suit for digging in is the heavy. Assault should be the conquerors, moving fast in packs to overwhelm enemy forces by sheer numbers. As is in real life, standard infantry is the expendeble cannonfodder. Infantry in all wars has been shoved into meatgrinders all over the world. BTW, I think Assault suits should be cheaper than all other suits, by at least 20%. And what's to stop Heavies from moving in packs..? Mad Syringe wrote: noob cavman wrote: I hear that my shotgun is the counter to heavies. But if the prof skill is being changed to shield damage and not keeping the rof bonus. I see alot of death on my horizon from not being able to get that 4 shot off... If the shotgun isn't good enough to give a sneaky scout the chance to kill that heavy, it needs to be buffed. Sneaky scouts should be able to take down a heavy, but only if undetected... and it still needs to be close (strafing involved and every shot connects). Same as above. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5241	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:54:00 - [26] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Heavies can tank REs. Sometimes three, in edge cases. Proto knives are survivable for up to four strikes even if you charge initially. Flux will assist, but the only heavy it'll be really effective against will be the Minmatar one. And they all have a 25% blast resistance, so the mass driver is out the window. Some heavies can tank a full magsec clip. Direct hits with the MD still do full damage! So you need to aim, and not only spam the floor. In the end, the heavy will need teamwork to take down or a sneaky scout to prepare him... Oh god another "will need teamwork to take down" argument. Look, game is only 16v16 - this argument didn't work with Tanks and it sure as **** won't work with Heavies unless there's a limit to how many can be fielded and I know for a solid fact no-one wants that. If it takes more than one person to kill any one other person - there's an imbalance. It's the DEFINITION of imbalance. It needs counters. Not -counter-. Plural. Edit: And it should -NOT- under any circumstances be the exact same thing used to counter it. It's terrible game design to have to counter something with what you're countering. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 216	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:55:00 - [27] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: And what's to stop Heavies from moving in packs..? Well if they move in packs, they need to cross open ground, where the mediums can take advantage of their superior range...
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 11278	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:56:00 - [28] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Heavies can tank REs. Sometimes three, in edge cases. Proto knives are survivable for up to four strikes even if you charge initially. Flux will assist, but the only heavy it'll be really effective against will be the Minmatar one. And they all have a 25% blast resistance, so the mass driver is out the window. Some heavies can tank a full magsec clip. Direct hits with the MD still do full damage! So you need to aim, and not only spam the floor. In the end, the heavy will need teamwork to take down or a sneaky scout to prepare him... That's nice. It'll take you a full clip of direct hits to down a heavy, by the way. Out of curiosity, how do you propose dealing with heavies with teamwork when they get spammed? If a lone heavy needs teamwork to kill, then straight away heavies become the most efficient use of clones and of manpower. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1161	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:56:00 - [29] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I predict Heavy514 with a some scouts hiding under every other rock for 1.8. I'm thinkin.... minnie scout, AMD, nova knife, compact hive, cloak, flux grenades. Knife the heavy. If he turns around before you can finish him, he's already in his armor so one MD shot while retreating should do the job. Also, great for sneaking onto roofs to eliminate snipers and rain down destruction from high places. Think about it, a MD capable of hitting you and disappearing only to reappear 15 seconds later behind you! Or a MD on the roof raining hell and disappearing as soon as you go after him just to appear on another roof 30 seconds later! I WILL BE THE MD NINJA! MAG ~ Raven
noob cavman Expert Intervention Caldari State 798	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:57:00 - [30] - Quote The hmg is awesome right now. With in 20 meters against a good heavy face to face your very likely to be abused like a welsh sheep. The counters for heavies have always been range or ambush. With prof skill being likely changed in 1.8 for the shotgun im very worried about them just turning around with me struggling to get my shots off. My rhythm with the shotty is going to drastically changed back to pre rof bonus stats, that makes me feel a little uncomfortable and and wonder why ive put so much sp into it. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK British ninja cowboy scout, logi, heavy



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