You're not.

I also think that the balance for heavies is in a fairly good place right now. Not perfect, but close.

There are two changes in 1.8 that will directly affect this balance.

Rifle nerfs, but no hmg nerf. This increases the hmg's relative power by ~(10% - 15%)
Heavy Resistances. 25% reduction to splash damage and additional 10-15% damage resistances vs specific weapon types. This will make heavies tankier.

Individually neither change seems to much, but I am worried that this will be a classic case of CCP nerfing and buffing simultaneously to produce a larger than intended result. Some of this might be mitigated by the potential assault role 10% rof bonus we saw on sisi, but that has not been confirmed yet afaik.

So im worried. I really do not what to see 1.8 do to heavies what 1.7 did to tanks.

Yeah, the HMG should be nerfed 5%, damage wise.

Most notably because all rifles will have a reduction in damage to accomodate a longer TTK but the HMG will not. IMO, it's already in a pretty good place and it's only intended counters in the CQC environment are the AR and the SG, both of which are getting some pretty hefty nerfs come 1.8

Fairly worried that the HMG will completely replace other CQC options as the new heavies gain in popularity and the subsequent nerfs occur. I kinda feel as though rifles were singled out in the TTK area in this aspect, some were obviously over-powering but there were others that were already falling short here in 1.7 (breach, burst and tactical AR, for instance).

I can't be the only one with this concern.

Yeah, the HMG should be nerfed 5%, damage wise.

If you look into the barrels of an HMG, you're supposed to die... It will finally be as it's supposed.

If you want to get that heavie on the node, engage from a distance if possible, and for those CQC situations, grenades will still help, you just need some hives. Massdrivers will see a comeback for those situations. But mostly, CQC is heavy and sneaky scout territory.

But there are enough places on the maps where mediums will still be the suits to use.

Oh god another "will need teamwork to take down" argument.

Look, game is only 16v16 - this argument didn't work with Tanks and it sure as **** won't work with Heavies unless there's a limit to how many can be fielded and I know for a solid fact no-one wants that. If it takes more than one person to kill any one other person - there's an imbalance. It's the DEFINITION of imbalance.

It needs counters. Not -counter-. Plural.

Edit: And it should -NOT- under any circumstances be the exact same thing used to counter it. It's terrible game design to have to counter something with what you're countering.

You got 1 like WTF? When I said that everybody raged at me.

This is my great concern for 1.8 as well. You get multiple people in sentinel suits camping a primary objective (the pivotal point in skirmish or the sole objective in Dom) and no one is going to be getting in there in any reasonable time because of all the stupid high resistance buffs. Grenade damage is automatically nerfed, if they use all Amarr and Gallente heavies, all RR and CR damage is automatically nerfed, and so are indirect mass driver rounds. You get 4 or 5 of these guys, all in the same suit with most using CRs and RRs, it's going to make for a really ugly time.

hey do me a favor go to an army base or to someone who owns a ( gatling,vulcan,chaingun,ect) and tell me what ttk has to do with it. i mean you cant nerf the death machine bruh, and im a scout. it might suck but there is always a way around it.

If scouts are unable to keep heavies in check the first adjustment should be nerfing their turn speeds. The HMG should be a beast up close, but be countered by range. The other big concern is the heavy in the LAV. This could be addressed by making AV 'nades a viable counter.

Or introduce the much needed enter/exit animations...

Focus fire maybe? Take down 1 sentinel at a time, not just have a team of 16 shoot everywhere.

Focus fire maybe? Take down 1 sentinel at a time, not just have a team of 16 shoot everywhere.

Damage mods are still getting nerfed. And proficiency.
You seriously can't do anything with just a HMG.

I want to say 99% of heavies use damage mods.

Shouldn't be that bad.

Damage mods are still getting nerfed. And proficiency.
You seriously can't do anything with just a HMG.

I want to say 99% of heavies use damage mods.

Shouldn't be that bad.

Heavies and light weapons... Nerf their ability to use the weapons effectively. Problem solved for FOTM heavy scrubs!

Heavies w/HMG need a role and it is CQC king, no they shouldn't 'auto win' in CQC but they should in a 1v1 if both players are equally skilled and it is a straight up shoot out. Why you might ask? Because we suck in every other situation.
Mini Heavies are an exception to this but that is due to their increased speed and therefore more versatile role, the Gal assault can be seen in the same light, they are more versatile than a Heavy. It would make no sense for the Gal Assault to equal the Heavies CQC ability in certain situations AND still have better speed and equipment.

With the nerfs to all other light weapons the HMG should get a reduced range, still king of CQC but really limiting them to only this role which makes the Heavy very situational since the majority of Public maps are large open ground areas. Yes they usually have a compound but quite often it is off to the side with no focus of action going on there. For the true Heavies ,who have spent the vast majority of their SP on the Heavy w HMG/Forge set up, this is really frustrating to have your class made redundant if you decide to stay true with its original intent.

Referring to the problem with not being able to kill Heavies with one RE.... use 2, that is why you have multiple.
Also if a Heavy is hit by an RE and survives + given 5 minutes to rep with without being shot after capturing the point then that means you set up a really bad defense, it doesn't mean the Heavy is OP.
Don't forget Heavies are also getting the Grenade nerf, add that to having no equipment slots means with out regular resupply from teammates Heavies can't effectively clear out areas of RE's and other equipment like every other suit can.

FYI I'm a long time Heavy w/HMG only vet (only scrubs use RR anyways... Regarless of suit ), we've been screwed by CCP long before any assault / light weapon user was and it is nice to see CCP has finally given us some love after many month AR514/Assault514/Logi514 etc but I agree CCP has shown us a bit too much love with 1.8 but this means balancing things not just the lazy way of outright nerfing, look how that turned out for the MD. Too many people don't bother thinking of how to solve a problem and instead just want to make it go away. This mentality is why after so long playing this game we are still dealing with such basic problems.

Because we suck in every other situation.

long ass wall of white text

but us heavies all know that the reason people want our HMG nerfed is so that they can beat us 1vs1, they don't like the fact that our HMG can win in CQC and so wants the dmg nerfed. pretty much the usual pattern, medium frame users keep getting killed by X weapon and so they all band up together wanting the nerf hammer on X weapon.

If you want to believe that that's the way it is, be my guest. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

just saying what im seeing at the moment, and it seems like this is the trend. but hey we all have our differences, you're for the nerf and us heavies are against the nerf. only CCP can decide whether they want to nerf it or not.

Tell someone it should take multiple people to take down a single person in a tank, and everyone losses their minds.

Tell someone they should lose to a single heavy within 20m, and everyone loses their minds.

Fixed.

long ass wall of white text

but us heavies all know that the reason people want our HMG nerfed is so that they can beat us 1vs1, they don't like the fact that our HMG can win in CQC and so wants the dmg nerfed. pretty much the usual pattern, medium frame users keep getting killed by X weapon and so they all band up together wanting the nerf hammer on X weapon.