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Why the HMG WON'T be OP in 1.8

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Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1452	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:33:00 - [1] - Quote The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 16	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:34:00 - [2] - Quote Ow, my face! Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2265	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:34:00 - [3] - Quote Why do you make these threads? Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
NotWhoYou ThinkEyeAm Expert Intervention Caldari State 33	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:35:00 - [4] - Quote The HMG may not be as OP, but the suit carrying it definitely will be. 45 player match I'm obviously not who you think I am
jhon hartigan Maphia Clan Corporation 186	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:35:00 - [5] - Quote The 3 stupidest reasons ever.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 1868	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:37:00 - [6] - Quote omg >Bastard I : "Cce me ne... futt! XD"
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3231	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:37:00 - [7] - Quote Heavies won't be so easily eaten by mass drivers with their resistance to splash damage. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
William HBonney Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 393	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:38:00 - [8] - Quote .....yes, if a heavy is an idiot running around in the open where the MD and LR can be threat....and the HMG is good out to 30-40 meters...it has more then double the DPS of all the other weapons, and the Heavies carrying them are getting a pretty good buff as well, so to recap, less dmg from everyone else and still the same killing potential, no no not OP just going to be absolutely annoying when you a full mag of MD won't kill a heavy.....full mag of CR will just barely kill one, lets hope we don't miss!
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 16	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:41:00 - [9] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1453	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:53:00 - [10] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Heavies won't be so easily eaten by mass drivers with their resistance to splash damage. Heavies are slow. You can easily hit them directly with an MD. This is pretty much what the Breach Mass Driver was made for. People don't seem to care about that though, they just want to whine. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1453	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:57:00 - [11] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced 1. Clown Cars are already broken. You can't assume that every Heavy will be using them, nor can you give up hope that CCP will fix them eventually. That hope is pretty much all we have. 2. So it'll be more OP because they won't do as much damage? 3. Yea, those non-aim assisted weapons that are getting buffed, and will do huge amounts of damage to a slow target that can't evade them. You will actually have to aim in order to kill Heavies. What a novel concept. They get blown up by direct hits, they get sniped, they get knived, they get vehiclepwned, and they get eaten at range. AKA Balanced. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 17	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:10:00 - [12] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced 1. Clown Cars are already broken. You can't assume that every Heavy will be using them, nor can you give up hope that CCP will fix them eventually. That hope is pretty much all we have. 2. So it'll be more OP because they won't do as much damage? 3. Yea, those non-aim assisted weapons that are getting buffed, and will do huge amounts of damage to a slow target that can't evade them. You will actually have to aim in order to kill Heavies. What a novel concept. They get blown up by direct hits, they get sniped, they get knived, they get vehiclepwned, and they get eaten at range. AKA Balanced. 1. No, not every heavy. Just the ones that aren't scrubs, or ones that want to get easy kills. The ones who don't will be raking in kills in their invinci-suits inside complexes where they reign absolutely supreme 2. The difference in damage between HMG and light weapons will be even greater in 1.8 than it is now 3. Yeah, while the HMG has the highest DPS, best aim assist, and is hitscan? WAH, i can't evade a mass driver that i have a 25% RESISTANCE TO!!!!!! Also, it takes a lot more aim to bring down a heavy than it takes for a heavy to bring down you You won't get blown up by direct hits of anything, even a large railgun in 1.8, LOL you don't get sniped because snipers know its a hopeless cause unless your really really really dumb and try to run between objectives. The reason scouts/non tanked med-frames die so much to snipers is because they are easy targets that are killable. Heavies are not. They will be knifed in 1.8, but consider it from the knifers PoV. He ran across half the map in a gimped suit that dies from one militia sniper round or a sudden gust of wind, has to fully charge his knives twice, hit both times, while you can easily bunny hop out of range and spray with your HMG to rip apart this scout with ease. They get vehiclepwned? what? Every other suit suffers just as much. My scout dies to ONE L blaster round on a damage modded tank. For range-hint, use the assault HMG, it works wonders. Or just stay in the city and move outside only in an LAV. AKA imbalanced Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 423	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:12:00 - [13] - Quote Heavies will be GOLEMS OF NEW EDEN Here my dear children, we can see "Heavy" or heavy drop suit introduced by CCP in one of the oldest pacthes in our beautiful game DUST 514 it was 1.8 Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator BHD since MAG
J0hlss0n Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 116	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:14:00 - [14] - Quote NotWhoYou ThinkEyeAm wrote: The HMG may not be as OP, but the suit carrying it definitely will be. Then they better "fix" the op suit (if there will be one) and leave the HMG alone, it has finally found its place and theres no need to mess with it. It will be slightly nerfed if they change the damage mods, that is enough of a change for the weapon itself, the suits however I will leave alone until they are tested out in battle... not that Im worried I will be using a "op" heavy as Im gonna go all out Minmatar...
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 315	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:20:00 - [15] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced 1. Clown Cars are already broken. You can't assume that every Heavy will be using them, nor can you give up hope that CCP will fix them eventually. That hope is pretty much all we have. 2. So it'll be more OP because they won't do as much damage? 3. Yea, those non-aim assisted weapons that are getting buffed, and will do huge amounts of damage to a slow target that can't evade them. You will actually have to aim in order to kill Heavies. What a novel concept. They get blown up by direct hits, they get sniped, they get knived, they get vehiclepwned, and they get eaten at range. AKA Balanced. Good, you tell me the same thing then when it becomes almost impossible to take over the objective in a domination match because the other team is scrubs primarily camping the objective with catsuit sentinels (or even in a skirmish, you're trying to defend an objective and three heavies roll up in a LAV or two with HMGs). Then you'll have the ones using light weapons like the RR along with the rest using HMGs so you can't really get in at any moderate range. Only way you'll be able to get in there is through a battle of attrition requiring at least 5-6 people minimum and maybe even a vehicle or two depending on the map. Only other way you're going to get in there is if a bunch of scouts can sneak in and plant a ton of REs or do a lot of knifing. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:20:00 - [16] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Why do you make these threads? Why should't I? It's a public forum, and almost everyone seems to be lamenting the death of the Rifle. It's fun to play Devil's Advocate, and even more fun to irritate Rifle lovers. So the Heavy+HMG combo will actually be effective, and will be powerful in the close quarters enviroments it was designed for. Heavy is still to slow to be able to move efficiently, still has to rely on other players and vehicles, and still suffers horribly at range. Its sad that noone sees these points, and even sadder that they think that the Heavy weapon class should be equivalent to the Light Weapons with similar functions. Give me one good reason to stop 'making these threads.' Besides, better than making another 'HMG OP 1.8' thread. I don't even use Heavies, but it doesn't seem right to screw them over again. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 597	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:21:00 - [17] - Quote I thought the answer to the title of this thread was going to be that heavies dont run HMGs, they run light weapons and side arms. Pretty sure thats the correct answer. Edit: Doesnt seem right to screw heavies over again? When was the last time they got screwed over? 1.3? Are you talking about how they got screwed over by having the same turn speed as every other suit or the time they got screwed over by getting a base hp buff? 'bout the dumbest statement ive seen on these forums in a good while. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2493	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:22:00 - [18] - Quote The only valid point is damage mods. That's all you needed to say. The only reason HMGs are so "OP" or whatever as everyone says they are is because of damage mods. Two damage mods and a boundless and your face is melted faster than you can react. Can't wait for 1.8 :P Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 315	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:24:00 - [19] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The only valid point is damage mods. That's all you needed to say. The only reason HMGs are so "OP" or whatever as everyone says they are is because of damage mods. Two damage mods and a boundless and your face is melted faster than you can react. Can't wait for 1.8 :P I've always liked what Fox Gaden said in another post quite awhile ago. The other reason HMGs are OP is that stupid "sloth" effect when you get hit by them. There's no way you can even get to cover or around a corner fast enough. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:25:00 - [20] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced 1. Clown Cars are already broken. You can't assume that every Heavy will be using them, nor can you give up hope that CCP will fix them eventually. That hope is pretty much all we have. 2. So it'll be more OP because they won't do as much damage? 3. Yea, those non-aim assisted weapons that are getting buffed, and will do huge amounts of damage to a slow target that can't evade them. You will actually have to aim in order to kill Heavies. What a novel concept. They get blown up by direct hits, they get sniped, they get knived, they get vehiclepwned, and they get eaten at range. AKA Balanced. Good, you tell me the same thing then when it becomes almost impossible to take over the objective in a domination match because the other team is scrubs primarily camping the objective with fatsuit sentinels. Then you'll have the ones using light weapons like the RR along with the rest using HMGs so you can't really get in at any moderate range. Only way you'll be able to get in there is through a battle of attrition requiring at least 5-6 people minimum and maybe even a vehicle or two depending on the map. Only other way you're going to get in there is if a bunch of scouts can sneak in and plant a ton of REs or do a lot of knifing. You mean an organized defense will have the advantage? In a mode where the entire point of the 25 minute battle is a single big defense/siege? Using the suit tailor-made for defense? With the weapon tailor-made for close quarters, defensive combat? Perish the thought. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 20	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:25:00 - [21] - Quote personally, HMG's versus light weapons is in a good place right now Maybe remove the slow glitch, but thats about it that makes the HMG OP versus scouts and assaults who flank Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 144	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:41:00 - [22] - Quote William HBonney wrote: .....yes, if a heavy is an idiot running around in the open where the MD and LR can be threat....and the HMG is good out to 30-40 meters...it has more then double the DPS of all the other weapons, and the Heavies carrying them are getting a pretty good buff as well, so to recap, less dmg from everyone else and still the same killing potential, no no not OP just going to be absolutely annoying when you a full mag of MD won't kill a heavy.....full mag of CR will just barely kill one, lets hope we don't miss! 30-40m ! What game are you playing, for the last year I've been a heavy and 20m is pretty tops after that dispersion makes you miss half your rounds easy. Double dps, check scrambler rifle, check pro scrambler pistols, check shotgun dps, not to mention most maps are open killing fields and are not at all cqc. REs will still almost kill heavies from full health, scouts will be rampant. A heavy is blind, unaware, slow, encumbered, dependent on another player and practical in movement patterns. You could wait behind a corner he'd never know you were there and they are quite susceptible to grenade spam. Right now I can have full armor~1050 (without shields) and get one shorted by a core grenade, so in 1.8 throw that core then shoot me 6-7 times and I'm down, I probably can't evade it or know where it's thrown from. G0DS AM0NG MEN Director Preferred fit 1 complex damage mod, 2 mlt kin cats, basic HMG, flux grenade on a std sentinel
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 599	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:49:00 - [23] - Quote The above post makes soloing as a heavy sound kinda difficult. Poor guys. What other ways can we buff the f*ck out of heavies so people dont die as much when running them? Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2035	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:57:00 - [24] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1) Does this account for the AR and the CR? No... The DPS for the AR should be lower but the ARs DPS shouldn't be that freaking low. Compared to the Boundless HMG a proto AR has 5 more meters of range and half the DPS of the HMG. The boundless HMG does 792 DPS duvolle AR does 412. There are also no penalties to using the HMG like slower turn speed or spool time therefore the extreme DPS just means if you want to be a cqc player either use an HMG or use nothing at all. 2) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent 3) No the mass driver will do 25% less damage on a heavy, and 50% less damage to Amarr and Gallente heavies if the MD counts as projectile. For the Federation!
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 910	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:58:00 - [25] - Quote J0hlss0n wrote: NotWhoYou ThinkEyeAm wrote: The HMG may not be as OP, but the suit carrying it definitely will be. Then they better "fix" the op suit (if there will be one) and leave the HMG alone, it has finally found its place and theres no need to mess with it. It will be slightly nerfed if they change the damage mods, that is enough of a change for the weapon itself, the suits however I will leave alone until they are tested out in battle... not that Im worried I will be using a "op" heavy as Im gonna go all out Minmatar... You just said it yourself "It has finally found it's place" thuis implying it is currently balanced against other weapons. Now if it is currently balanced and the weapons it is balanced against are getting nerfed while it isn't that makes it............ UNBALANCED Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:58:00 - [26] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: The above post makes soloing as a heavy sound kinda difficult. Poor guys. What other ways can we buff the f*ck out of heavies so people dont die as much when running them? It's less about making the Heavy a one-man army, more about making them a bastion for their team. The Heavy can take a lot of hits and can defend well, but he can carry no equipment and has no real 'speed' to speak of. This leaves him wanting for offensive options. He can't really Assault, especially not on his own, but can siege and breach with support. He has no staying power without either facilities or allies, but he can free up manpower for offensives by being a powerful... let's say goalie. He's still easily killed by too many foes, but he isn't nearly as vulnerable in his domain. He can still be easily flanked, and he can't heal on his own, but when he has support he shines the brightest. That's the idea anyway. I don't want Heavies to be one man armies, but this update feels like it might finally bring parity to his role as 'Heavy' as opposed to the lighter suits. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 196	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:01:00 - [27] - Quote Wow another OP thread! The HMG is supposed to be the best weapon within 30 meters! Why can't people understand that? If any other weapon could out dps a HMG in CQC then that is a problem. Nervermind, the CR already does...
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 109	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:04:00 - [28] - Quote The Terminator T-1000 wrote: Wow another OP thread! The HMG is supposed to be the best weapon within 30 meters! Why can't people understand that? If any other weapon could out dps a HMG in CQC then that is a problem. Nervermind, the CR already does... The CR does not in fact, out DPS the HMG in 30 meters, the ScR does though. G0DS AM0NG MEN Director - Fully Support a Respec for 1.8 My 1.8 fit
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 181	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:05:00 - [29] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. NO ONES EVEN QQING ABOUT THIS ***!!!! KEEPS RANTING ON ABOUT HOW STUPID THIS THREAD IS!!* Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:06:00 - [30] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1) Does this account for the AR and the CR? No... The DPS for the AR should be lower but the ARs DPS shouldn't be that freaking low. Compared to the Boundless HMG a proto AR has 5 more meters of range and half the DPS of the HMG. The boundless HMG does 792 DPS duvolle AR does 412. There are also no penalties to using the HMG like slower turn speed or spool time therefore the extreme DPS just means if you want to be a cqc player either use an HMG or use nothing at all. 2) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent 3) No the mass driver will do 25% less damage on a heavy, and 50% less damage to Amarr and Gallente heavies if the MD counts as projectile. 1. The AR and CR are Light weapons. They aren't supposed to be as powerful as a Heavy weapon, just like a Sidearm isn't supposed to be as powerful as a Light weapon. If the Heavy weapons were equally powerful to their Light counterparts, there would be no reason to use them or even the Heavy unless you wanted the bigger HP buffer. 2. Ah, Logical Fallacies, the defense of every ******* with a wikipedia connection and no counterargument. It isn't even accurate to the situation. I stated that the HMG is also getting a nerf in the same form as the Light weapons are. I could have also stated that the Commando suit reverses the Rifle DPS decrease and makes them about the same as they are now, but that is thought to be understood. It is simply a fact that the damage mods are getting a downgrade. 3. The Mass Driver will do less damage if you use the splash. If you hit DIRECTLY, the new damage buff, and possibly even the Commando buff, and especially the Breach Mass Driver's power will make the Heavy melt. It isn't that hard to hit a Heavy, especially one revving/charging. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.

Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 599	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:06:00 - [31] - Quote This is all bull puckey. The damn heavy suit has been buffed so much its freakin unbelievable. This attitude of the hard luck heavy and his struggle to survive is offensive to listen to and makes me sick. Im pretty sure we were all here for the mauler event. Post 1.8- My heavy cant kill tanks quick enough, my heavy cant kill those pesky ships in orbit, my heavy is still UP. The sh*t is old. Just run the OP crap you have and stop acting like your a damn pre 1.8 scout. Jesus christ. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:08:00 - [32] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: The Terminator T-1000 wrote: Wow another OP thread! The HMG is supposed to be the best weapon within 30 meters! Why can't people understand that? If any other weapon could out dps a HMG in CQC then that is a problem. Nervermind, the CR already does... The CR does not in fact, out DPS the HMG in 30 meters, the ScR does though. The CR might, it all depends on the spread of each player. Its a roll of the dice, basically. The RR definitely does, at it's better ranges, and for the ScR I'll take your word for it. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:09:00 - [33] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: This is all bull puckey. The damn heavy suit has been buffed so much its freakin unbelievable. This attitude of the hard luck heavy and his struggle to survive is offensive to listen to and makes me sick. Im pretty sure we were all here for the mauler event. Post 1.8- My heavy cant kill tanks quick enough, my heavy cant kill those pesky ships in orbit, my heavy is still UP. The sh*t is old. Just run the OP crap you have and stop acting like your a damn pre 1.8 scout. Jesus christ. I'm not a Heavy tho. Nice assuming tho. Makes me feel like I'm being pretty impartial if you think I'm trying to defend a role I'm not playing :3 Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 752	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:10:00 - [34] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: This is all bull puckey. The damn ASSault suit has been buffed so much its freakin unbelievable. This attitude of the hard luck ASSault and his struggle to survive is offensive to listen to and makes me sick. Im pretty sure we were all here for the entirety of Dust. Post 1.8- My ASSault cant kill tanks quick enough, my ASSault cant kill those pesky ships in orbit, my heavy is still UP. The sh*t is old. Just run the OP crap you have and stop acting like your a damn pre 1.8 scout. Jesus christ. Fixed Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:11:00 - [35] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: This is all bull puckey. The damn ASSault suit has been buffed so much its freakin unbelievable. This attitude of the hard luck ASSault and his struggle to survive is offensive to listen to and makes me sick. Im pretty sure we were all here for the entirety of Dust. Post 1.8- My ASSault cant kill tanks quick enough, my ASSault cant kill those pesky ships in orbit, my heavy is still UP. The sh*t is old. Just run the OP crap you have and stop acting like your a damn pre 1.8 scout. Jesus christ. Fixed I luv you Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 292	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:13:00 - [36] - Quote My prediction: A lot of players will bail out of assault and logi suits with only the truly dedicated remaining. Many players will flock to sentinel and maybe commando suits for raw eHP power that medium suits won't be able to match. Speed isn't a problem when you have the same range as everyone else so light weapon + heavy suit > medium suit + light weapon. The HMG Sentinel suit will reign as the CQC king. The AR, shotgun, and any other weapon who doesn't have a longer range will be inferior, only to be used by die hard users. Many people will try out the new scout suits. They will excel at being very difficult to detect, however it may not matter. Already a well tanked sentinel suit with an HMG has enough eHP to tank AR DPS, turn around, and kill said scout before dying. Therefore with the decrease in rifle weapon DPS, nerf of complex damage mods, and increase to sentinel resistances it could very well be possible that surprise won't be a powerful enough factor to kill a heavy in a 1v1 situation. Due to the previous prediction people will complain loudly about how heavy suits are so powerful, particularly sentinel suits with light weapons or a HMG. They will start calling it Heavy514 or Fatsuit514 and there will be much forum raging. Six months from now when CCP does it's next update, the might address it. Otherwise it will go on till the next update (ex: tanks are currently stronger than they need to be, however CCP does not seem to address this issue in 1.8 and likely will in the next update).
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 911	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:13:00 - [37] - Quote 1.8 Sentinel (especially Gallente and Amarr) is going to be easy mode, plain and simple. Anyone who will argue otherwise is lying to themselves to protect their video game ego. You want to play on easy mode and think your awesome for being able to do so, fine, have fun. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:15:00 - [38] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: J0hlss0n wrote: NotWhoYou ThinkEyeAm wrote: The HMG may not be as OP, but the suit carrying it definitely will be. Then they better "fix" the op suit (if there will be one) and leave the HMG alone, it has finally found its place and theres no need to mess with it. It will be slightly nerfed if they change the damage mods, that is enough of a change for the weapon itself, the suits however I will leave alone until they are tested out in battle... not that Im worried I will be using a "op" heavy as Im gonna go all out Minmatar... You just said it yourself "It has finally found it's place" thuis implying it is currently balanced against other weapons. Now if it is currently balanced and the weapons it is balanced against are getting nerfed while it isn't that makes it............ UNBALANCED The Assaults and Commandoes are getting buff to their DPS/DPM, the Assault in interesting ways (less heat, faster reload, bigger clip) and the Commando in pure ways (straight damage buff). The Heavy gets a bonus to his defenses to even it out, while the HMG remains untouched because the Assaults aren't getting any tankier. Makes sense. In English. Assaults get more ATK(if they match), Heavies get more DEF(if they match) Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 752	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:17:00 - [39] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My prediction: A lot of players will bail out of assault and logi suits with only the truly dedicated remaining. Many players will flock to sentinel and maybe commando suits for raw eHP power that medium suits won't be able to match. Speed isn't a problem when you have the same range as everyone else so light weapon + heavy suit > medium suit + light weapon. The HMG Sentinel suit will reign as the CQC king. The AR, shotgun, and any other weapon who doesn't have a longer range will be inferior, only to be used by die hard users. Many people will try out the new scout suits. They will excel at being very difficult to detect, however it may not matter. Already a well tanked sentinel suit with an HMG has enough eHP to tank AR DPS, turn around, and kill said scout before dying. Therefore with the decrease in rifle weapon DPS, nerf of complex damage mods, and increase to sentinel resistances it could very well be possible that surprise won't be a powerful enough factor to kill a heavy in a 1v1 situation. Due to the previous prediction people will complain loudly about how heavy suits are so powerful, particularly sentinel suits with light weapons or a HMG. They will start calling it Heavy514 or Fatsuit514 and there will be much forum raging. Six months from now when CCP does it's next update, the might address it. Otherwise it will go on till the next update (ex: tanks are currently stronger than they need to be, however CCP does not seem to address this issue in 1.8 and likely will in the next update). Or CCP could put it @ss in gear release all heavy weapons lock the slot to heavy only. This way the whinny little ASSaults cant complain about a fcking suit DOING IT'S GOD DMN ROLE Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 911	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:17:00 - [40] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My prediction: A lot of players will bail out of assault and logi suits with only the truly dedicated remaining. Many players will flock to sentinel and maybe commando suits for raw eHP power that medium suits won't be able to match. Speed isn't a problem when you have the same range as everyone else so light weapon + heavy suit > medium suit + light weapon. The HMG Sentinel suit will reign as the CQC king. The AR, shotgun, and any other weapon who doesn't have a longer range will be inferior, only to be used by die hard users. Many people will try out the new scout suits. They will excel at being very difficult to detect, however it may not matter. Already a well tanked sentinel suit with an HMG has enough eHP to tank AR DPS, turn around, and kill said scout before dying. Therefore with the decrease in rifle weapon DPS, nerf of complex damage mods, and increase to sentinel resistances it could very well be possible that surprise won't be a powerful enough factor to kill a heavy in a 1v1 situation. Due to the previous prediction people will complain loudly about how heavy suits are so powerful, particularly sentinel suits with light weapons or a HMG. They will start calling it Heavy514 or Fatsuit514 and there will be much forum raging. Six months from now when CCP does it's next update, the might address it. Otherwise it will go on till the next update (ex: tanks are currently stronger than they need to be, however CCP does not seem to address this issue in 1.8 and likely will in the next update). You forgot the last part, when the OP killing machines are nerfed the FotM scrubs who went into them will cry and say how they are balanced and didn't need to be nerfed. At the same time vets of the Sentinel will shrug, say they knew it was OP and still kick ass in the now balanced sentinel suits as they always have done. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:18:00 - [41] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: 1.8 Sentinel (especially Gallente and Amarr) is going to be easy mode, plain and simple. Anyone who will argue otherwise is lying to themselves to protect their video game ego. You want to play on easy mode and think your awesome for being able to do so, fine, have fun. Once again, I'm not a Heavy, nor do I intend on swapping to Heavy after 1.8. It's funny to hear someone phrase it that way though. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Temias Mercurial ANGEL FLEET 5	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:18:00 - [42] - Quote I wonder when people will find out what the Minmatar Heavy will be capable of... math shall serves you well. It's inbetween an assault and heavy...
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:19:00 - [43] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: This is all bull puckey. The damn ASSault suit has been buffed so much its freakin unbelievable. This attitude of the hard luck ASSault and his struggle to survive is offensive to listen to and makes me sick. Im pretty sure we were all here for the entirety of Dust. Post 1.8- My ASSault cant kill tanks quick enough, my ASSault cant kill those pesky ships in orbit, my heavy is still UP. The sh*t is old. Just run the OP crap you have and stop acting like your a damn pre 1.8 scout. Jesus christ. Fixed That is some quality crack your smoking son. Oh, Zero doesnt run a heavy, darn. I guess that somehow invalidates everything i said. Zero, i dont care if you run around in board shorts and a tank top, the last thing that needs to happen is people acting like the heavy is somehow UP. And for not running a heavy, you sure seem to have alot of their balls in your mouth atm. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 913	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:24:00 - [44] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: J0hlss0n wrote: NotWhoYou ThinkEyeAm wrote: The HMG may not be as OP, but the suit carrying it definitely will be. Then they better "fix" the op suit (if there will be one) and leave the HMG alone, it has finally found its place and theres no need to mess with it. It will be slightly nerfed if they change the damage mods, that is enough of a change for the weapon itself, the suits however I will leave alone until they are tested out in battle... not that Im worried I will be using a "op" heavy as Im gonna go all out Minmatar... You just said it yourself "It has finally found it's place" thuis implying it is currently balanced against other weapons. Now if it is currently balanced and the weapons it is balanced against are getting nerfed while it isn't that makes it............ UNBALANCED The Assaults and Commandoes are getting buff to their DPS/DPM, the Assault in interesting ways (less heat, faster reload, bigger clip) and the Commando in pure ways (straight damage buff). The Heavy gets a bonus to his defenses to even it out, while the HMG remains untouched because the Assaults aren't getting any tankier. Makes sense. In English. Assaults get more ATK(if they match), Heavies get more DEF(if they match) Your math intrigues me. So a nerf to weapon damage with an indirect buff to DPS is equal to a buff to defense without the corresponding nerf to damage. Or in math terms: to you 1 -1 and 1 - 0 equals the same number? Facts are this HMG is currently balanced against rifles, rifles are getting a damage reduction and HMG is not. That is a net gain for the HMG. TTK is going up for everyone. TTK is going up tons more for the Sentinel. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 752	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:27:00 - [45] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: This is all bull puckey. The damn ASSault suit has been buffed so much its freakin unbelievable. This attitude of the hard luck ASSault and his struggle to survive is offensive to listen to and makes me sick. Im pretty sure we were all here for the entirety of Dust. Post 1.8- My ASSault cant kill tanks quick enough, my ASSault cant kill those pesky ships in orbit, my heavy is still UP. The sht is old. Just run the OP crap you have and stop acting like your a damn pre 1.8 scout. Jesus christ. Fixed That is some quality crack your smoking son. Oh, Zero doesnt run a heavy, darn. I guess that somehow invalidates everything i said. Zero, i dont care if you run around in board shorts and a tank top, the last thing that needs to happen is people acting like the heavy is somehow UP. And for not running a heavy, you sure seem to have alot of their balls in your mouth atm. You ever play a heavy? You know... the suit with the largest hitbox, lowest speed, biggest head, the inability use equipment, the inability to scan anything smaller then a tank? You ever use the HMG when it was broke? In those days a militia light with a militia SMG could man fight anything short of the Officer HMG and win 80% of the time. NO...??! THEN SHUT THE FCK UP AS YOUR WORDS FALL ON DEAF EARS. P.S. I bet you are a GalLogi with a RR and afraid of anything resembling a fair fight Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:28:00 - [46] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: This is all bull puckey. The damn ASSault suit has been buffed so much its freakin unbelievable. This attitude of the hard luck ASSault and his struggle to survive is offensive to listen to and makes me sick. Im pretty sure we were all here for the entirety of Dust. Post 1.8- My ASSault cant kill tanks quick enough, my ASSault cant kill those pesky ships in orbit, my heavy is still UP. The sh*t is old. Just run the OP crap you have and stop acting like your a damn pre 1.8 scout. Jesus christ. Fixed That is some quality crack your smoking son. Oh, Zero doesnt run a heavy, darn. I guess that somehow invalidates everything i said. Zero, i dont care if you run around in board shorts and a tank top, the last thing that needs to happen is people acting like the heavy is somehow UP. And for not running a heavy, you sure seem to have alot of their balls in your mouth atm. Some nice insults you are flinging son, I think they show a rather mature manner of addressing your peers. The Heavies will be fine, they aren't the only suits getting buffed. I'll be as happy as I ever was in my Minmatar and Amarr Medium suits. I'll be even happier when Clown Cars are fixed and we can see where Heavy stands without the gimmick, and at the peak of happy when they decide to release more Laser weapons. As for why I'm taking the Heavy's side, have you ever looked at a heavy in this build? It was so hard to find those that didn't just use a Light weapon before Mauler, and even now they are still getting eaten by REs and RRs. Scouts are getting cloaking, so I'm not going to beat the 'scout UP' drum any more until cloaking can be evaluated. So yea, Heavy deserves this. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:29:00 - [47] - Quote The assault is OP? Lmfao, Vitharr and Zero you two have got to be about the 2 dumbest bastards on thesr forums right now. Vitharr to Zero- hey im gonna type ASSault since i have no argument. Zero to Vitharr- huuuhuhuuhhhuu....ASSault.... Vitharr to Zero- but really im scared one day CCP will take away my crutch. Zero to Vitharr- dont worry, CCP moves at a snails pace, and they arent that smart when it comes to balance. That is very true Zero. That is very true. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:32:00 - [48] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: J0hlss0n wrote: NotWhoYou ThinkEyeAm wrote: The HMG may not be as OP, but the suit carrying it definitely will be. Then they better "fix" the op suit (if there will be one) and leave the HMG alone, it has finally found its place and theres no need to mess with it. It will be slightly nerfed if they change the damage mods, that is enough of a change for the weapon itself, the suits however I will leave alone until they are tested out in battle... not that Im worried I will be using a "op" heavy as Im gonna go all out Minmatar... You just said it yourself "It has finally found it's place" thuis implying it is currently balanced against other weapons. Now if it is currently balanced and the weapons it is balanced against are getting nerfed while it isn't that makes it............ UNBALANCED The Assaults and Commandoes are getting buff to their DPS/DPM, the Assault in interesting ways (less heat, faster reload, bigger clip) and the Commando in pure ways (straight damage buff). The Heavy gets a bonus to his defenses to even it out, while the HMG remains untouched because the Assaults aren't getting any tankier. Makes sense. In English. Assaults get more ATK(if they match), Heavies get more DEF(if they match) Your math intrigues me. So a nerf to weapon damage with an indirect buff to DPS is equal to a buff to defense without the corresponding nerf to damage. Or in math terms: to you 1 -1 and 1 - 0 equals the same number? Facts are this HMG is currently balanced against rifles, rifles are getting a damage reduction and HMG is not. That is a net gain for the HMG. TTK is going up for everyone. TTK is going up tons more for the Sentinel. The HMG is not balanced against Rifles at time of posting. If it were, then you would never see any Heavy using a Light weapon. The Heavy is also only getting a defensive buff to specific weapon types, dependent on the Heavy. Some even get rather useless ones. If you are using the wrong gun on the Heavy and he gets a defense bonus, then woot. Good for him. In New Eden, we call that Resistances. No one cares about resistances in this game, we all jsut fire our primary until the target dies. It'll be nice to actually have to have varied weapons for varied situations. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:33:00 - [49] - Quote P.S. Im a Min Assault with an AR, have always been, so yea, take another crack at theory crafting there ace. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Temias Mercurial ANGEL FLEET 6	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:33:00 - [50] - Quote Is it really that difficult to eliminate a Heavy outside its optimal range, which is very short? I really don't see why HMGs are considered OP as of now. Assault shouldn't be the only ones to partake in a killing spree. Just because you got shredded doesn't mean it's necessarily OP.

Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 752	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:35:00 - [51] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: The assault is OP? Lmfao, Vitharr and Zero you two have got to be about the 2 dumbest bastards on thesr forums right now. Vitharr to Zero- hey im gonna type ASSault since i have no argument. Zero to Vitharr- huuuhuhuuhhhuu....ASSault.... Vitharr to Zero- but really im scared one day CCP will take away my crutch. Zero to Vitharr- dont worry, CCP moves at a snails pace, and they arent that smart when it comes to balance. That is very true Zero. That is very true. Im dumb eh? LOL this is coming from the genius who claims that a weapon that is out ranged by everything but a shotgun, ion pistol, or nova knife is OP Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1455	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:37:00 - [52] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: The assault is OP? Lmfao, Vitharr and Zero you two have got to be about the 2 dumbest bastards on thesr forums right now. Vitharr to Zero- hey im gonna type ASSault since i have no argument. Zero to Vitharr- huuuhuhuuhhhuu....ASSault.... Vitharr to Zero- but really im scared one day CCP will take away my crutch. Zero to Vitharr- dont worry, CCP moves at a snails pace, and they arent that smart when it comes to balance. That is very true Zero. That is very true. So the suit with the best mix of speed, power, maneuverability, and slots is the ugly duckling? We can all agree that the Scout is on the bottom of the suit totem pole, and that the Commando is currently a novelty. The Logistics and Assault suits are barely distinguishable from one another. The Heavy is slower and has more HP. In the new build, the Commando will be viable, the Assault gets combat buffs, the Logistics gets equipment buffs and has its combat role lessened, the Scout gets cloaking, and the Heavy gets more defense. I really don't see why the Heavy is OP in thsi scenario. He sounds pretty balanced. But go on, keep insulting me. It won't get anything done, and I'm sure your classmates will enjoy your sharp wit. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 752	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:38:00 - [53] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: Is it really that difficult to eliminate a Heavy outside its optimal range, which is very short? I really don't see why HMGs are considered OP as of now. Assault shouldn't be the only ones to partake in a killing spree. Just because you got shredded doesn't mean it's necessarily OP. The HMG is getting called OP because it is be coming competitive and the racial rifle users can't allow anything that is a niche weapon to out perform the racial rifles. Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 24	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:38:00 - [54] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is not balanced against Rifles at time of posting. If it were, then you would never see any Heavy using a Light weapon. The Heavy is also only getting a defensive buff to specific weapon types, dependent on the Heavy. Some even get rather useless ones. If you are using the wrong gun on the Heavy and he gets a defense bonus, then woot. Good for him. In New Eden, we call that Resistances. No one cares about resistances in this game, we all jsut fire our primary until the target dies. It'll be nice to actually have to have varied weapons for varied situations. If it were balanced, you would technically see a 50/50 divide between rifles and HMG, which is what it is nowGÇª.just saying. If the HMG were BETTER than the rifles by a lot, then your hypothetical situation holds true Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1456	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:39:00 - [55] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: P.S. Im a Min Assault with an AR, have always been, so yea, take another crack at theory crafting there ace. Oh, a Minmatar with an AR? I Hope you mean CR, those clashing racials will cost you in 1.8. Also, an AR is never going to beat an HMG within its optimal. If that is your only basis for 'Heavy is OP' then I weep for your grey matter, as it is wasted here. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:40:00 - [56] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: The assault is OP? Lmfao, Vitharr and Zero you two have got to be about the 2 dumbest bastards on thesr forums right now. Vitharr to Zero- hey im gonna type ASSault since i have no argument. Zero to Vitharr- huuuhuhuuhhhuu....ASSault.... Vitharr to Zero- but really im scared one day CCP will take away my crutch. Zero to Vitharr- dont worry, CCP moves at a snails pace, and they arent that smart when it comes to balance. That is very true Zero. That is very true. Im dumb eh? LOL this is coming from the genius who claims that a weapon that is out ranged by everything but a shotgun, ion pistol, or nova knife is OP Yeah, you are the dumb one. I would suggest reading the whole thread before jumping head first into an argument that didnt involve you. THE HEAVY has been consistantly buffed and hasnt been UP for a damn half a year. These tall tales of heavies having it so rough are annoying and stupid. Go ahead and find the post where i said the HMG is OP. Dont worry, ill wait. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:41:00 - [57] - Quote Look at that Vitharr, you even got your boyfriend Zero off topic. Focus Zero, youve been in the argument since the begining. Try and keep track of what its actually about. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2036	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:43:00 - [58] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1) Does this account for the AR and the CR? No... The DPS for the AR should be lower but the ARs DPS shouldn't be that freaking low. Compared to the Boundless HMG a proto AR has 5 more meters of range and half the DPS of the HMG. The boundless HMG does 792 DPS duvolle AR does 412. There are also no penalties to using the HMG like slower turn speed or spool time therefore the extreme DPS just means if you want to be a cqc player either use an HMG or use nothing at all. 2) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent 3) No the mass driver will do 25% less damage on a heavy, and 50% less damage to Amarr and Gallente heavies if the MD counts as projectile. 1. The AR and CR are Light weapons. They aren't supposed to be as powerful as a Heavy weapon, just like a Sidearm isn't supposed to be as powerful as a Light weapon. If the Heavy weapons were equally powerful to their Light counterparts, there would be no reason to use them or even the Heavy unless you wanted the bigger HP buffer. 2. Ah, Logical Fallacies, the defense of every ******* with a wikipedia connection and no counterargument. It isn't even accurate to the situation. I stated that the HMG is also getting a nerf in the same form as the Light weapons are. I could have also stated that the Commando suit reverses the Rifle DPS decrease and makes them about the same as they are now, but that is thought to be understood. It is simply a fact that the damage mods are getting a downgrade. 3. The Mass Driver will do less damage if you use the splash. If you hit DIRECTLY, the new damage buff, and possibly even the Commando buff, and especially the Breach Mass Driver's power will make the Heavy melt. It isn't that hard to hit a Heavy, especially one revving/charging. Sidearm does anywhere from 5%-25% less damage than a light weapon. The damage mod nerf is a situational nerf so it either affects you or it doesn't not everybody ran damage mods therefore they are 100% unaffected. This is true but most shots from the MD aren't going to hit now are they? The MD also has a ROF of 1 so before they can land 3 shots you would have killed the enemy by then... For the Federation!
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1456	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:43:00 - [59] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is not balanced against Rifles at time of posting. If it were, then you would never see any Heavy using a Light weapon. The Heavy is also only getting a defensive buff to specific weapon types, dependent on the Heavy. Some even get rather useless ones. If you are using the wrong gun on the Heavy and he gets a defense bonus, then woot. Good for him. In New Eden, we call that Resistances. No one cares about resistances in this game, we all jsut fire our primary until the target dies. It'll be nice to actually have to have varied weapons for varied situations. If it were balanced, you would technically see a 50/50 divide between rifles and HMG, which is what it is nowGÇª.just saying. If the HMG were BETTER than the rifles by a lot, then your hypothetical situation holds true The HMG is a Heavy weapon. If you skill into Heavy, it should be for the Heavy weapons slot. If the HMG is not as powerful compared to the Rifle as the Rifle when compared to the SMG, then there isn't balance. There is no reason to use the Heavy slot. Therefore, the Heavy just becomes an HP buffer suit, and would be outmoded by, say, the Commando, if the Commando had decent HP. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Temias Mercurial ANGEL FLEET 6	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:44:00 - [60] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Is it really that difficult to eliminate a Heavy outside its optimal range, which is very short? I really don't see why HMGs are considered OP as of now. Assault shouldn't be the only ones to partake in a killing spree. Just because you got shredded doesn't mean it's necessarily OP. The HMG is getting called OP because it is be coming competitive and the racial rifle users can't allow anything that is a niche weapon to out perform the racial rifles. It's boring to die to the same weapons again and again. It would be nice to make room for a few more that are not considered "OP". Variety is what makes things fun, and not stale.

Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 754	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:44:00 - [61] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: The assault is OP? Lmfao, Vitharr and Zero you two have got to be about the 2 dumbest bastards on thesr forums right now. Vitharr to Zero- hey im gonna type ASSault since i have no argument. Zero to Vitharr- huuuhuhuuhhhuu....ASSault.... Vitharr to Zero- but really im scared one day CCP will take away my crutch. Zero to Vitharr- dont worry, CCP moves at a snails pace, and they arent that smart when it comes to balance. That is very true Zero. That is very true. Im dumb eh? LOL this is coming from the genius who claims that a weapon that is out ranged by everything but a shotgun, ion pistol, or nova knife is OP Yeah, you are the dumb one. I would suggest reading the whole thread before jumping head first into an argument that didnt involve you. THE HEAVY has been consistantly buffed and hasnt been UP for a damn half a year. These tall tales of heavies having it so rough are annoying and stupid. Go ahead and find the post where i said the HMG is OP. Dont worry, ill wait. The suit is only as good as it's weapon. Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 623	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:45:00 - [62] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Heavies won't be so easily eaten by mass drivers with their resistance to splash damage. As far as I understand, a direct hit with a Mass Driver or Plasma Cannon will not have its damage reduced by the Sentinel's splash damage resistance. Because it's direct damage. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:46:00 - [63] - Quote Lmao, thats right, stick that foot in your mouth. You talked a little to much smack to just drop the argument. A suit is only as good as its weapon. Is that really your final answer? Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
safura trotsky Kill Mode Activated Galactic Skyfleet Empire 39	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:52:00 - [64] - Quote jhon hartigan wrote: The 3 stupidest reasons ever. Nocturnal Soul wrote: Why do you make these threads? yeah^ Thanks for picking me up blueberry!...and again...and again...STAHP!!!
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:52:00 - [65] - Quote So the HMG is weak, and by proxy this makes the heavy suit weak? Is that what we are going with? Really? Y'all were pretty excited jerking each other off a second ago. And now what, you struggle through actually reading and........silence. Back to the hard luck heavy stories. Keep them crutches coming. Maybe in 1.9 y'all will get heavy only jetpacks so you can murder taxi dropships without needing your forge guns. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 754	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:53:00 - [66] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Lmao, thats right, stick that foot in your mouth. You talked a little to much smack to just drop the argument. A suit is only as good as its weapon. Is that really your final answer? Fine... I'll indulge you bit longer i guess Take the GalLogi(current FOTM suit) give it a militia Flaylock tell me how well that would work out? You and I both know what the results of that venture would be. Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3234	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:54:00 - [67] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Heavies won't be so easily eaten by mass drivers with their resistance to splash damage. As far as I understand, a direct hit with a Mass Driver or Plasma Cannon will not have its damage reduced by the Sentinel's splash damage resistance. Because it's direct damage. Personally, I'm not interested in hunting heavies with a weapon with slow, non-hit scan projectiles and even slower reload. Go right ahead if that's your thing. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:55:00 - [68] - Quote What the f*ck are you talking about. Stay on topic. Did you find the elusive post where I said the HMG is OP? Edit: this isnt directed at you Reav, your post slid in between mine and hard luck heavy guy. What happened to your buddy Zero, Vitharr? Better yet, where is Attim? Hes got a good head on his shoulders, im sure he could explain all this to you nice and slow like. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 755	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:59:00 - [69] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: What the fck are you talking about. Stay on topic. Did you find the elusive post where I said the HMG is OP? Do you even bother reading the posts Allow me to REPEAT* myself THE SUIT(that thing you fit with stuff) IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE GUN(that thing you pewpew with) Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:03:00 - [70] - Quote No, no. You just tried to switch gears and talk about a gal logi and a flaylock. Did you not read that either? I mean, you wrote it but at this point im not putting anything past you. And since a heavy can run anything, there is a touch of truth there. Now go ahead and explain how assaults are OP and heavies are UP. Pretty sure everyone is waiting for that explaination, lord knows i am. Or areyou still dreaming about posts i never made? Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama

Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 601	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:05:00 - [71] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: Lmao, thats right, stick that foot in your mouth. You talked a little to much smack to just drop the argument. A suit is only as good as its weapon. Is that really your final answer? Fine... I'll indulge you bit longer i guess Take the GalLogi(current FOTM suit) give it a militia Flaylock tell me how well that would work out? You and I both know what the results of that venture would be. For clarification thats the one im wondering about. Ive read all your posts and they are all equally ignorant. What do you want to talk about next? The effectivness of the flower in mario world? Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1066	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:12:00 - [72] - Quote I'm thinking scouts may be very good at keeping heavies in check. If they end up OP, the first adjustment CCP should make is nerfing the turn speed back to how it was, and then re-evaluate. Heavies should be slow and tough but dependent on support. My biggest fear regarding heavies is the nerf to AV nades will make heavies in LAVs a major problem. If they're packing in tight on an objective the MD will be an excellent counter tactic (even with the resistance bonus). Scouts will also work well in that situation (main force distracts, scout sneaks up on group and REs/NKs them to pieces). Best PvE idea ever!
Balamob SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 17	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:13:00 - [73] - Quote jhon hartigan wrote: The 3 stupidest reasons ever. Agree
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1458	Posted - 2014.03.14 04:02:00 - [74] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Heavies won't be so easily eaten by mass drivers with their resistance to splash damage. As far as I understand, a direct hit with a Mass Driver or Plasma Cannon will not have its damage reduced by the Sentinel's splash damage resistance. Because it's direct damage. Personally, I'm not interested in hunting heavies with a weapon with slow, non-hit scan projectiles and even slower reload. Go right ahead if that's your thing. Then hunting Heavies will not be your job in 1.8. There will still be plenty on Non-Heavies to shoot, and two out of four heavies won't have any resistances to your favored hit-scan weapons. Minmatar Heavies, for example, will be weak to the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle. So there is no real problem, as far as I can see. I know you aren't a bad player, but that's simply how it is going to be: Grab a weapon that does alot of damage but has to be carefully aimed, or pick your Heavies as well as you pick your Rifles. Or just gang up on them like we already do. Concentrated fire will melt them as well as it does anything. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1028	Posted - 2014.03.14 04:02:00 - [75] - Quote Wow this thread is full of whining. I think half of the reason for this is because of CCP`s track record. In every patch or every other patch that comes out for DUST, the game can totally change and almost feel like a totally new game. (That is not necessarily good by the way) Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB ZERG EVENT 1MILLION CLONES! LETS DO THIS
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1458	Posted - 2014.03.14 04:22:00 - [76] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: Lmao, thats right, stick that foot in your mouth. You talked a little to much smack to just drop the argument. A suit is only as good as its weapon. Is that really your final answer? Fine... I'll indulge you bit longer i guess Take the GalLogi(current FOTM suit) give it a militia Flaylock tell me how well that would work out? You and I both know what the results of that venture would be. For clarification thats the one im wondering about. Ive read all your posts and they are all equally ignorant. What do you want to talk about next? The effectivness of the flower in mario world? He is saying that the suit is only as good as what you can equip to it. For example, the Commando is widely thought to be useless because it has no slots. The suit in and of itself is nice, but the inability to add anything to it makes it horribly under-perform. Giving the Heavy a weapon that requires closing, like the Shotgun, Nova Knives, or HMG, will also prove bad if you can't counter the Heavy's innate slowness by, for example, defending a facility. On the other hand, the Heavy has the Heavy Weapon Slot as its claim to fame, but if the Heavy Weapon Slot is useless because there is nothing good to fit in it, then what is the point of the Heavy suit, bonuses or not? Our only Heavy Weapons are the HMG and Forge Gun, one anti-infantry and one anti-vehicle. The Forge Gun is far and away the best anti-vehicular weapon for infantry, as long as they can cope with the charge and free-aim. The HMG on the other hand under-performs at any range past 20-30 meters, and seems lackluster in comparison to the only other Heavy Weapon we can compare it to. Rail Rifles in particular devour the Heavy, as the Armor focused Amarr take serious damage from Railgun-type damage (luckily addressed somewhat in the 1.8 Amarr Heavy bonus). In fact, almost all Rifles can use their range to crush the Heavy when he uses the HMG, with the exception of the Gallente Blaster Assault Rifle, as the AR has the wrong damage profile (a shield bias) and a range profile in direct competition with the HMG. The AR sucks at fighting HMG wielding Amarr Heavies. So in short, the suit is only as good as the weapon on it. When the suit's purpose is to use a particular weapon type, that makes the suit as good as that weapon type. Ergo, if Heavy Weapons suck, the Heavy will suck. People will still use the Heavy however, in conjunction with Light Weapons, if the Heavy weapons do not perform optimally. So if they prefer Light Weapons to Heavy Weapons, then the Heavy Weapons are Underpowered, and therefore must be addressed. (Not BUFFED, just ALTERED.) Just imagine how silly it would be if an HAV used a Light Turret instead of a Heavy Turret. Ask yourself why he would do that when the Heavy Turret is supposed to be strictly more powerful than its Light Turret counterpart? Also, the gay jokes. Not cool bro. I'm not offended personally, but I'm sure homosexual people don't enjoy 'gay' being an insult. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1458	Posted - 2014.03.14 04:26:00 - [77] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Wow this thread is full of whining. I think half of the reason for this is because of CCP`s track record. In every patch or every other patch that comes out for DUST, the game can totally change and almost feel like a totally new game. (That is not necessarily good by the way) Its hilarious how many people are already up in arms over the theoretical HMG of 1.8. Try to say that it won't be so bad, and all this happens. Gotta love being the optimist. Your point has merit though. The difference between 1.6 and 1.7 is astonishing, and closed beta is nearly indistinguishable from current gameplay. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 2610	Posted - 2014.03.14 04:57:00 - [78] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. I didn't read the read the rest of this thread but I hoped everyone facepalmed after reading this OP. weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 316	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:03:00 - [79] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced 1. Clown Cars are already broken. You can't assume that every Heavy will be using them, nor can you give up hope that CCP will fix them eventually. That hope is pretty much all we have. 2. So it'll be more OP because they won't do as much damage? 3. Yea, those non-aim assisted weapons that are getting buffed, and will do huge amounts of damage to a slow target that can't evade them. You will actually have to aim in order to kill Heavies. What a novel concept. They get blown up by direct hits, they get sniped, they get knived, they get vehiclepwned, and they get eaten at range. AKA Balanced. Good, you tell me the same thing then when it becomes almost impossible to take over the objective in a domination match because the other team is scrubs primarily camping the objective with fatsuit sentinels. Then you'll have the ones using light weapons like the RR along with the rest using HMGs so you can't really get in at any moderate range. Only way you'll be able to get in there is through a battle of attrition requiring at least 5-6 people minimum and maybe even a vehicle or two depending on the map. Only other way you're going to get in there is if a bunch of scouts can sneak in and plant a ton of REs or do a lot of knifing. You mean an organized defense will have the advantage? In a mode where the entire point of the 25 minute battle is a single big defense/siege? Using the suit tailor-made for defense? With the weapon tailor-made for close quarters, defensive combat? Perish the thought. There's a difference between an organized defense plan versus something that cannot be brought down because everybody all uses the same exact thing due to there being very little real counters to it. The issue I still take is that I could buy your argument if it was a close quarters defense with these suits. However there are going to be tons of people that are going to use RR and people in some maps are not even going to be able to get anywhere even near these places if the other side does a full camping layout. People thought the Gallente research facility map city before was bad in domination with the supply depot? Wait until these new sentinels just decide to move outwards from the silo and camp those exterior pillbox areas with RRs. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 446	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:06:00 - [80] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP?. Not really concerned about the HMG. More worried about the heavy suits having too much survivability, especially sentinels. Zero Harpuia wrote: 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones.. You should not have mentioned this because all infantry weapons will be effected by damage mod nerfs. Add on the fact that your weapon, the HMG, isn't getting its base stats nerfed while other's weapons are makes you sound disingenuous. I personally am happy with the all the nerfs CCP is introducing to raise TTK. But I do have my concerns regarding heavies. Zero Harpuia wrote: 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle.. Laser rifle is a hit-scan weapon. Zero Harpuia wrote: Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. Your assuming too much here. Outcomes will vary depending on the situation. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )

Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 606	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:09:00 - [81] - Quote Zero if you want to quote me to try and continue an argument with me, I would suggest you do it at the time of the argument, not run off and show back up hours later trying to quote me to support your opinion. I've said all I need to say, and you should probably go about your business and not pull me back into this nonsense. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 318	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:13:00 - [82] - Quote I think it's time for me to bring in the numbers again as I grow tired of people with these "heavies are fine" arguments. Bringing in from my post from before: "Here's my issue with these new heavies. First of all, like some other guys said in here already, HMG is taking no nerfs at all. That may eventually cause a problem a long the lines with being able to get into and take over objectives in skirmishes. Get a couple heavies camping a letter (particularly in a dom) and you aren't going to be getting in there any time soon most likely without some sort of vehicle or a ton of people. HMGs already cut down people pretty good the way it is. You can have a TTK increase all you want, it still will equal out in the end back to what we have now, but this isn't the main problem. The main problem with HMGs currently is that slowdown or "sloth" effect when hit by continuous streams of bullets, completely stopping any player's ability to get behind cover once they get fired upon by an HMG. Second, we're all taking a grenade nerf, both actively through a reduction in the number we can carry and also subtly through heavy explosive resistances. I like to use core nades at times. They especially are helpful when you have heavies that spawn in around an objective you're hacking and try to get the jump on you. Bring down their shields with a CR or ScR while jumping around while cooking a core nade, toss that sucker and a lot of times you can then finish them off. No longer possible with the explosive resistances. I'll just use the base damage for a rough estimate, take 25% off of 600 and you're already down to 450. You get a sentinel that is using brick tank with around 1300 armor, you aren't even going to get through half his HP. Then you combine that with rifle nerfs, proficiency nerfs, and damage mod nerfs, and things are gonna get ugly. I can say the same with REs. Take 25% off of 1500 and you're down to 1,125. Fully tanked Amarr sentinels will easily resist RE blasts without an issue, and if their shields full to begin with, more than one RE. Then if we look at the Gallente sentinel with a comparable armor HP level, we find that he will be able to resist at least one RE. If the RE was placed merely to guard an objective against hacking, that Gallente sentinel can absorb the RE blast (if he has full shields possibly more than one RE even), hack the objective and then automatically start repping from his passive armor repair. Yes these bonuses may be small, but if no one can get back to that objective immediately, he can simply camp it, while his passive armor repair (even though it is only 1 hp/sec and very small) would let him hold that area combined with his shield reserves until a logi or someone with a rep tool or hive arrived. Even if he had to "hold out" briefly, within around 5 minutes his entire base suit armor level would be almost fully repaired. Lastly we have the resistance bonuses. I'll use Gallente and Amarr as those have the rail/projectile resistance. For any engagements at any range, most people are going to be still using RR or CR as an armor counter weapon (although we'll see somewhat of a return of MD I'm sure). If people using these Amarr/Gallente sentinels hold true to the heavy idea and use HMGs, then this whole ordeal will not even be an issue, however as this last event has shown, we now have plenty of scrubs that use sentinel fatsuits with RR. Taking this resistance bonus into account, that's 10 to 15% for projectile and rail weapons. This means that any medium suit, even a tanked logi suit with RR with the max out of around 1000 eHP still will fail miserably in a standard engagement with a sentinel suit. It's plain mathematics. If they notice each other at around the same time (fighting even at the longest optimal range available), or even if the logi suit gets a slight jump on the Amarr sentinel from a flank, he is still going to loose. 1000 eHP is not going to outdo around 2000 eHP. It's as simple as that. That is just from what we have now already pre 1.8 Now you factor in that extra 10 or 15% resistance and that Amarr or Gallente sentinel will trump that logi or other medium suit every single time. Like the OP said above, that 15% makes for an extra 210 more HP. Does not seem like much, but when we are dealing with these high of numbers, that is a ton. That sentinel will be afforded at least an extra few seconds (with the new reduced TTK) due to that bonus while the other medium suits have none. If these new heavies were only to use HMGs, forges, or sidearms, then I could easily buy into the argument that they aren't overpowered as the argument of "well fight them from outside of their optimal and you'll have no trouble" would be true. However, I know full well, with these new bonuses, light weapon heavies, particularly the RR heavies will become even more prevalent than they are now and it will be much worse than currently. TL;DR 1.Heavy resistances to explosives will cause huge problems when using REs and grenades to counter their armor 2. Simple numerics combined with new bonuses means in an equal situation and even a slight disadvantage, light weapon heavies will prevail every single time against scout and medium suits. 3. If heavies only functioned optimally at CQC - lower mid ranges (like they are designed to) none of these issues would even present a problem. 4. I feel that one bonus or the other should have been used for heavies. Either they gain a resistance to certain weapon types based upon race, OR resistance to explosives. Getting both at once I feel leads to a huge discrepancy for other suit users, heavies will reign supreme, particularly light weapon sentinels." It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1070	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:27:00 - [83] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: 2. Simple numerics combined with new bonuses means in an equal situation and even a slight disadvantage, light weapon heavies will prevail every single time against scout and medium suits. I think you're underestimating the scouts. A cloak + NKs will cut a heavy open like a can opener. I'm withholding judgment on this one until 1.8 goes live. Best PvE idea ever!
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 320	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:30:00 - [84] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: 2. Simple numerics combined with new bonuses means in an equal situation and even a slight disadvantage, light weapon heavies will prevail every single time against scout and medium suits. I think you're underestimating the scouts. A cloak + NKs will cut a heavy open like a can opener. I'm withholding judgment on this one until 1.8 goes live. I probably should have noted that NKs might have been the possible exception (as I did not take those into account and was only basing my writing off of other weapons). However, given those huge HP reserves they have now, we'll have to wait and see like you said about what's going to happen for scout effectiveness. I'm going to be using a scout suit myself in 1.8, so I'll be able to evaluate the situation as well. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 919	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:34:00 - [85] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: 4. I feel that one bonus or the other should have been used for heavies. Either they gain a resistance to certain weapon types based upon race, OR resistance to explosives. Getting both at once I feel leads to a huge discrepancy for other suit users, heavies will reign supreme, particularly light weapon sentinels." I can't agree more. If Sentinels were getting a 15% bonus to a single racial damage type and some sort of bonus to like fitting of heavy weapons or ammo to heavy weapons or reload speed of heavy weapons. We wouldn't be having all these debates. As it is every heavy suit is getting 3 resistances. The bonuses are out of whack with everyone else's and the HMG is the only other automatic weapon in the game not getting damage reduced for TTK. The math isn't lying, as it is right now a heavy noob like me who was never used the HMG popped a standard one on a Dren sentinel last week and it was instant 3 KDR dumbass scrub style. Range, range, range...yeah and at range I'll probably tear your sentinel @ss up with my rail rifle, until you jump your butt in a free LAV you can't kill with 2 AV grenades and Dukes of hazard yourself into my face with 1.5 times the HP and your resistances. EZ mode Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 321	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:39:00 - [86] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: 4. I feel that one bonus or the other should have been used for heavies. Either they gain a resistance to certain weapon types based upon race, OR resistance to explosives. Getting both at once I feel leads to a huge discrepancy for other suit users, heavies will reign supreme, particularly light weapon sentinels." I can't agree more. If Sentinels were getting a 15% bonus to a single racial damage type and some sort of bonus to like fitting of heavy weapons or ammo to heavy weapons or reload speed of heavy weapons. We wouldn't be having all these debates. As it is every heavy suit is getting 3 resistances. The bonuses are out of whack with everyone else's and the HMG is the only other automatic weapon in the game not getting damage reduced for TTK. The math isn't lying, as it is right now a heavy noob like me who was never used the HMG popped a standard one on a Dren sentinel last week and it was instant 3 KDR dumbass scrub style. Range, range, range...yeah and at range I'll probably tear your sentinel @ss up with my rail rifle, until you jump your butt in a free LAV you can't kill with 2 AV grenades and Dukes of hazard yourself into my face with 1.5 times the HP and your resistances. EZ mode That's what I keep trying to get across to people. i've run heavy suits before, both HMG and forge guns, so I know how heavies operate. One match just a few weeks ago I also decided to put on a Kaalakota RR onto just a regular heavy with a couple plates. Went into an ambush and fought on a bridge. I was EASILY able to take on three guys at once from a significant distance without ever having to go back behind cover. Even though they all were trying to engage me, my huge HP reserves just allowed me to tank all their bullets while I picked them all off with RR headshots. It just infuriated me more about all these heavy RR scrubs. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
STEALTH HUNTER ZERO D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 171	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:55:00 - [87] - Quote I too am worried about them getting too many resistance bonuses, we'll see how bad it is once 1.8 arrives. If it does turn out to be too much then they need to tone them down a little ASAP. Also, I figure in the near future when we get at least 2 or 3 more heavy weapons (some for ranged fighting) then they need to lock the heavy weapon slot to Only heavy weapons and if people want to use light weapons they can use a commando for the extra damage.
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 513	Posted - 2014.03.14 06:22:00 - [88] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Ow, my face! Man, I have a huge, red, hand shaped mark covering my face! Lololol Most fights are cqc though. Closed beta vet Logi, Heavy, Python, Scout.
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 265	Posted - 2014.03.14 06:46:00 - [89] - Quote heavies will be were they should be in 1.8, sure there are many HMG going around but that just lack of heavy weapons, people complaining about heavies being op are, how to put it...., weak players, since they dont know how to exploit heavies weakness We speak the Dragon's language of flame and rage. Together we shall weave a tale of destruction without equal...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 727	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:01:00 - [90] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The only valid point is damage mods. That's all you needed to say. The only reason HMGs are so "OP" or whatever as everyone says they are is because of damage mods. Two damage mods and a boundless and your face is melted faster than you can react. Can't wait for 1.8 :P Currently I think heavies are pretty well balanced, I have messed a around quite a bit with them by now. The HMG currently is really devastating as long as you know your range (something most heavies that claim how UP the HMG is don seem to know). In its optimal range it can cut through a whole squad without reloading and in 1.8 it will become really bad. Just on a side side note in 1.8 the HMG will deal roughly double the DPS of an AR while acting in a similar optimal range the Assault variant will have at least the same range with still ~45% more DPS... So AR users will have a really hard time to kill Heavies. And now the best part is they get resistances as well so in general the Sentinel gets a double buff while his counters gets a nerf. CCP tried this with vehicles and we all know how well this worked out. The SG will be barely able to kill anything in 1.8 as the SG gets a nerf as well the only weapon that my be dangerous for a sentinel could be the the new buffed LR. But the LR will be more dangerous to shield tanked suits than for armor suits...

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2190	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:22:00 - [91] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Heavies won't be so easily eaten by mass drivers with their resistance to splash damage. 280 Direct Damage Per Shot on the Standard, 300+ on the breach, heaviies wont be a problem. ALSO Shotguns. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1030	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:29:00 - [92] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: ~SNIP~ TL;DR 1.Heavy resistances to explosives will cause huge problems when using REs and grenades to counter their armor 2. Simple numerics combined with new bonuses means in an equal situation and even a slight disadvantage, light weapon heavies will prevail every single time against scout and medium suits. 3. If heavies only functioned optimally at CQC - lower mid ranges (like they are designed to) none of these issues would even present a problem. 4. I feel that one bonus or the other should have been used for heavies. Either they gain a resistance to certain weapon types based upon race, OR resistance to explosives. Getting both at once I feel leads to a huge discrepancy for other suit users, heavies will reign supreme, particularly light weapon sentinels." You know we never had these issues back in the chromosome build. Speed was not just an accessory to a merc, it could actively be used as a method of defence. AA / Bullet magnetism / Sloth slow down making this game worse than it needs to be again? Just saying. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB ZERG EVENT 1MILLION CLONES! LETS DO THIS
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5081	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:38:00 - [93] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: ~SNIP~ TL;DR 1.Heavy resistances to explosives will cause huge problems when using REs and grenades to counter their armor 2. Simple numerics combined with new bonuses means in an equal situation and even a slight disadvantage, light weapon heavies will prevail every single time against scout and medium suits. 3. If heavies only functioned optimally at CQC - lower mid ranges (like they are designed to) none of these issues would even present a problem. 4. I feel that one bonus or the other should have been used for heavies. Either they gain a resistance to certain weapon types based upon race, OR resistance to explosives. Getting both at once I feel leads to a huge discrepancy for other suit users, heavies will reign supreme, particularly light weapon sentinels." You know we never had these issues back in the chromosome build. Speed was not just an accessory to a merc, it could actively be used as a method of defence. AA / Bullet magnetism / Sloth slow down making this game worse than it needs to be again? Just saying. Not to mention the whole 'tun speed flattening' they did a while ago. (BS) Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1031	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:43:00 - [94] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: ~SNIP~ TL;DR 1.Heavy resistances to explosives will cause huge problems when using REs and grenades to counter their armor 2. Simple numerics combined with new bonuses means in an equal situation and even a slight disadvantage, light weapon heavies will prevail every single time against scout and medium suits. 3. If heavies only functioned optimally at CQC - lower mid ranges (like they are designed to) none of these issues would even present a problem. 4. I feel that one bonus or the other should have been used for heavies. Either they gain a resistance to certain weapon types based upon race, OR resistance to explosives. Getting both at once I feel leads to a huge discrepancy for other suit users, heavies will reign supreme, particularly light weapon sentinels." You know we never had these issues back in the chromosome build. Speed was not just an accessory to a merc, it could actively be used as a method of defence. AA / Bullet magnetism / Sloth slow down making this game worse than it needs to be again? Just saying. Not to mention the whole 'tun speed flattening' they did a while ago. (BS) Yea. While I do see what CCP was trying to achieve, the turn speed possible with a HMG certainly hurt shotgun scouts for sure. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB ZERG EVENT 1MILLION CLONES! LETS DO THIS
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 729	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:43:00 - [95] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Heavies won't be so easily eaten by mass drivers with their resistance to splash damage. 280 Direct Damage Per Shot on the Standard, 300+ on the breach, heaviies wont be a problem. ALSO Shotguns. with 300 damage how many shots does it take to bring a heavy down and how long would it take? The MD may work if you have a better position aka roof camping . But regarding the SG this weapon will be useless against all but the crappiest sentinels. currently a std SG will need 3 shots to bring down a fully specced heavy without any modules. If you consider that you need to get close to the Sentinel I would assume that most will simply turn around to kill you with your SG once fired your first shot. In 1.8 things will be worse there will be sentinels with resistance to hybrid plasma damage and the SG will get a nerf as the RoF increase will be changed to more shield damage.
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 188	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:58:00 - [96] - Quote The heavy needs to be the toughest suit to bring down! 1.8 will bring it where it belongs! The only problem is the use of light weapons on sentinels! Nerf those weapons on sentinel suits, problem solved. If a node is camped with heavies, explosives will still be the key, you need to bring nades hives and massdrivers to flush them out. I only see a problem in domination matches with covered nodes (in buildings), in all other cases you have enough possibillities to kill those heavies at range. But seriously sentinels need a light weapon nerf, say 10% less effectiveness with light weapons and all is good.
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2570	Posted - 2014.03.14 10:33:00 - [97] - Quote Oh man closed beta peeps are going to eat you guys alive this whole thread is a live example on how most of you just cant think outside the box...or well form any plan other than charge the enemy "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 189	Posted - 2014.03.14 10:36:00 - [98] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Oh man closed beta peeps are going to eat you guys alive this whole thread is a live example on how most of you just cant think outside the box...or well form any plan other than charge the enemy +1
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 113	Posted - 2014.03.14 10:46:00 - [99] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced LOL the shotlgun is still an effective weapon against thsm, in the right suit (Scout) and in the right hands. just seak up behind them and as they turn, keep moving the direction they are and you will stay behind them. add shooting at them to this equation and TA-DA! you have made a heavy eat the dust! Assault Gk.0 Gallente Federation Patriot General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 730	Posted - 2014.03.14 10:58:00 - [100] - Quote General12912 wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced LOL the shotlgun is still an effective weapon against thsm, in the right suit (Scout) and in the right hands. just seak up behind them and as they turn, keep moving the direction they are and you will stay behind them. add shooting at them to this equation and TA-DA! you have made a heavy eat the dust! Really the only times I ever get beaten by a SG in my current heavy was because I was either distracted and reacted too late or the other guy was simply a better player...in both cases I deserved to die. But there were sooo many situation where smart scouts outplayed me and simply died as they could not kill me fast enough. Withe the removal of the turn speed limit the Heavy can turn fast enough to keep up with most scout players.... AND the SG gets a nerf as well as proficiency changes from RoF boost to shield damage boost sooo a heavy will have even more time to kill you.

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1460	Posted - 2014.03.15 16:16:00 - [101] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: General12912 wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced LOL the shotlgun is still an effective weapon against thsm, in the right suit (Scout) and in the right hands. just seak up behind them and as they turn, keep moving the direction they are and you will stay behind them. add shooting at them to this equation and TA-DA! you have made a heavy eat the dust! Really the only times I ever get beaten by a SG in my current heavy was because I was either distracted and reacted too late or the other guy was simply a better player...in both cases I deserved to die. But there were sooo many situation where smart scouts outplayed me and simply died as they could not kill me fast enough. Withe the removal of the turn speed limit the Heavy can turn fast enough to keep up with most scout players.... AND the SG gets a nerf as well as proficiency changes from RoF boost to shield damage boost sooo a heavy will have even more time to kill you. A few points. Actually, the Shotgun getting a bonus to Shield Damage will even out the loss of RoF, if not be better. It would nullify the Caldari Heavy's Blaster resistance, and tear through the other race's shields. Also, fighting a Heavy while distracted is one of the best tactics you can use. Try it out some time, it is invaluable here and in other games, like TF2. Lastly, they never removed the turn speed limit. They just raised the Heavy to be on par with the Medium, while Lights still have an advantage. Pre-Buff, the Heavy could barely keep up with a Medium suit in CQC, when CQC is supposed to be the Heavy's domain. Finally Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1655	Posted - 2014.03.15 17:04:00 - [102] - Quote If HMG is keeping the 1 sec TTK and the other weapons are getting nerfed, I can see why people complain. As a shotty scout user, I know it won't affect me much, but just letting you guys know why people think it's OP.
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 206	Posted - 2014.03.15 17:50:00 - [103] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced maybe std knives but you pull out some proto and adv knives you can carve yourself a proto heavy right thru those resistances scout suit 300 > ehp : G£ö cal fw "terrible blueberries" : G£ö stacked red team : G£ö "still too easy - knives only"
PLAYSTTION GamersForChrist 69	Posted - 2014.03.15 18:26:00 - [104] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. Assault scrambler isn't either -Open Beta Vet-15.5 mil sp- Laser+Flaylock Dust 514 recruitment link here
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 72	Posted - 2014.03.15 18:58:00 - [105] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: General12912 wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The HMG is the only automatic weapon not to be nerfed in 1.8. We all know this because people won't shut the hell up about it. So why is it NOT going to be OP? 1. The RIFLES (and SMG) are all that are getting nerfed. Small 'caliber' weapons. And they still have much better range than the HMG 2. The HMG is ALSO getting nerfed. ALL Damage Modifiers are nerfed, including Heavy ones. 3. Non-Hitscan weapons are getting BUFFED. A revving Heavy will get eaten by a Mass Driver or Laser Rifle. Its a sensitive balance. HMGs are the king of close quarters automatic weapons. They beat Rifles, but special weapons beat them HARD. A Heavy cannot feasably get away from a Laser or MD. Think outside the Rifle box people. 1. This just disproves your point, and what does range matter if you have an invincible vehicle to drive you around every time you need to get somewhere? 2. GÇªGÇªyou just pointed out why the heavy/HMG combo will be even more OP in 1.8 3. Yeah those OP non aim assisted weapons that you have a paltry 25% resistance to They beat out rifles, they beat out knives, they beat out mass drivers, they beat out PLC's, they beat out shotguns. AKA balanced LOL the shotlgun is still an effective weapon against thsm, in the right suit (Scout) and in the right hands. just seak up behind them and as they turn, keep moving the direction they are and you will stay behind them. add shooting at them to this equation and TA-DA! you have made a heavy eat the dust! Really the only times I ever get beaten by a SG in my current heavy was because I was either distracted and reacted too late or the other guy was simply a better player...in both cases I deserved to die. But there were sooo many situation where smart scouts outplayed me and simply died as they could not kill me fast enough. Withe the removal of the turn speed limit the Heavy can turn fast enough to keep up with most scout players.... AND the SG gets a nerf as well as proficiency changes from RoF boost to shield damage boost sooo a heavy will have even more time to kill you. A few points. Actually, the Shotgun getting a bonus to Shield Damage will even out the loss of RoF, if not be better. It would nullify the Caldari Heavy's Blaster resistance, and tear through the other race's shields. Also, fighting a Heavy while distracted is one of the best tactics you can use. Try it out some time, it is invaluable here and in other games, like TF2. Lastly, they never removed the turn speed limit. They just raised the Heavy to be on par with the Medium, while Lights still have an advantage. Pre-Buff, the Heavy could barely keep up with a Medium suit in CQC, when CQC is supposed to be the Heavy's domain. Finally if you think the proficiency change is a buff, you obviously have never used a shotgun scout Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 229	Posted - 2014.03.15 19:14:00 - [106] - Quote The only thing a laser rifle user is going to be beating hard is his own **** when I turn my HMG on him and kill him, even at range. Amarr Sentinels won't be afraid of anything but RR, RE, MD, knives and maybe shotguns. hackable ladders ftw


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