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Rinzler XVIII
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2014.02.25 03:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL;DR Just want to get a few things off my chest, I don't expect anyone to care or even read it all .. or even respond
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-We have an autocracy using the facade of a democracy. Those in positions of 'power' will always cater to the interests of those who put them in that position in the 1st place hence the CCP love in I see from prominent members in the community despite all of the mistakes that have been made and keep being made.
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
-The Tank 100% Nitrous mistake is absolutely horrific for a company of CCPs stature, being added at 100% n the 1st place is a minor mistake that is completely understandable but for that to then be added into the game is a total shambles .. did no-one check the changes before the patch was implemented ? These are absolute basics .. you add a change and you check it to make sure it's correct and then you confirm that it is right and patch it into the game. I'm not even talking about it actually being game tested either and whilst I think not game testing new content or changes is a fail I can understand they are restricted somewhat by Sony QA.
-Balance will never be achieved until core fundamentals and mechanics are set in place. CCP need to decide on what they want this game to be and then stick with it, with the addition of AA and improved hit detection TTK dropped drastically and speed tanking died to be replaced with Dual Tanking and high eHP Armor suits.1.8 damage is being reduced and with certain suits gaining resistances to certain weapon types this will increase TTK, by how much ? No-one will know, not even CCP until 1.8 drops and we get to 'test' the game for them and this is the curse of not play testing updates and patches before release. What if TTK is increased by too much and it takes a minute of 3 people firing to kill someone ? Does that mean 1.9 will see damage increased and resistances reduced to reduce TTK again ? Changes introduced that improve the game are great, repeated changes to the same thing because you can't balance it due to a lack of testing isn't and is one of the most frustrating things a game developer can do to it's player base !
-The decisions matter argument, I'm tired of listening to the flawed logic of mad men so I'm going to end this once and for all ... If the only changes to the game are the addition of new content then your decisions matter however when sweeping changes are made to existing content that fundamentally change the playstyle of that suit/weapon/vehicle then your decisions DON'T matter because what you end up with is something you skilled into for X Y Z reason and now that reason is no longer applicable and therefore a previously informed decision that you made has been rendered pointless as the information that you based that decision on has been changed.
EG If you were to invest into a business based on market trends, research, economics, accounts, share prices that specialised in producing electronic goods and then 1 year down the line they suddenly switched to selling soil which renders all the previous information you based the decision on meaningless you'd expect the option to pull your investment out of that business before they switched what the core of the business actually does. If you were told that you couldn't get your investment back because 'Your decisions matter' you'd shoot that argument down right there and then and maybe even the person telling you 'Your decisions matter' as well.
If your for or against an SP Refund then thats your prerogative but try and use a real reason that your against it rather than this argument, it doesn't cut the mustard anymore
Phew that's all for now
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Vegetation Monster
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
193
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Posted - 2014.02.25 03:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
swig.
B
Double O
T
Y
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Rinzler XVIII
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2014.02.25 03:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:swig.
'Passes a fresh beer'
Sorry I guess I got carried away there |
Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1221
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Posted - 2014.02.25 03:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
CPM - With the elections coming up, now is your time to vote to elect the CPM candidate that best represents your views. I highly recommend to everyone to visit the council's chambers to see what they have to say and watch out for any new candidates that might be to your liking.
QA Testing - Might as well not bother here. Sony wont allow CCP to create a test server that players can use and CCP doesnt play the game enough themselves to have any understanding of what works and what doesnt.
Communication - Same as QA. People have been crying for better communication for the past year and all we got were a couple of trolls and a team that states "we are aware of the problem and are looking into it". The CPM is handcuffed by a NDA so they arent allowed to say anything that isnt vetted by CCP.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Rinzler XVIII
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2014.02.25 04:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:CPM - With the elections coming up, now is your time to vote to elect the CPM candidate that best represents your views. I highly recommend to everyone to visit the council's chambers to see what they have to say and watch out for any new candidates that might be to your liking.
QA Testing - Might as well not bother here. Sony wont allow CCP to create a test server that players can use and CCP doesnt play the game enough themselves to have any understanding of what works and what doesnt.
Communication - Same as QA. People have been crying for better communication for the past year and all we got were a couple of trolls and a team that states "we are aware of the problem and are looking into it". The CPM is handcuffed by a NDA so they arent allowed to say anything that isnt vetted by CCP.
Elections are popularity contests not indicators of competency and the person that best represents my views is myself which is probably true for everyone.
I know which is why I didn't say anything about RR/CR balance issues or Tank v AV balance issues but mistakes like 100% nitrous boost didn't need to be game tested to see that it was broken as a simple 2nd look would have rectified the problem and they are things that shouldn't happen in any company.
Communications between CCP and the players is my concern, I'm completely discounting the CPMs due to the NDA and the NDA is one of the reasons I feel that we really don't need a CPM at all. CCP are the ones that need to engage with us more and they are the ones who can actually give us answers or feedback.
BTW I'm not having a go at you, I realise that I didn't explain my points in the OP in great depth so I'm just trying to add some clarity to my points in relation to the points you brought up so thanks for the response |
Sgt Buttscratch
KILL-EM-QUICK
1810
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Posted - 2014.02.25 04:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
I personally don't think we shouldn't have a CPM.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Cotsy
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.02.25 05:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
It seems everyone is missing the point. There aren't problems with gameplay that are more pressing than matchmaking, sure... There are problems with weapon balance, sure. Heck, there are even problems with the lack of CCP activity in the forum...etc... But the real problem has to do with matchmaking system. The dust community is controlled by a few elite members of elite corps who don't see the unbalanced matchmaking system as a significant problem. Frankly, the think they deserve the right to do what 'I report you' Moody video shows.
Matching players based on skill level (say SP tiers or average WP) is the only logical answer to so many questions: how do we grow the game, how do we get new players to stay, how do we create an enjoyable gameplay, how do we avoid epic Proto stomps, how do we avoid the ever growing gap between elite and middle of the road players.
But here lies the problem, the elite don't like to or want to play each other. They leave lobbies when they see the other team composition of elite squads and prefer to stomp on lower tier players instead of risking a competitive match. Until the elite members of the community stop complaining about useless aspects of the game like redline hiding when they are Proto stomping or rail gun tank shooting them from inside the redline to 1m outside the redline where they are waiting to stomp this game we all play will never grow. Players will leave, noobs won't play more than a few matches. Lower tier players will give up and eventually middle of the road guys will just walk away from the game because the gap is too wide to be competitive.
There is no problems bigger or that should be address with more pressing concerns than having a match where both parties have equal shot at winning and everyone in the match has a good chance at killing each other based on their SP and their skill level.
Do what I did, create a character (mine wasn't placed in battleground for noobs) and join a match. It's nearly impossible to compete at any level below elite vs. elite corps.
Dust 514 is two games, one played by the elite and one played by everyone else, it's just that we are in the same matches.
So complain that you want this or that, but before you even worry about what tactics or OP or what weapon is OP etc... Worry about the matchmaking system, because it's not fun to be on either end of the stomp.
- Cots |
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CCP Saberwing
C C P
C C P Alliance
1965
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Posted - 2014.02.25 05:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points -
- Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature.
- There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it.
On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :)
- We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day.
I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1287
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
owned. |
CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
800
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
low genius wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have. owned.
That word must mean something else where you come from. He was not owned lol silly guy.
Join our public channel - A great place to hang out / find squads.
ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
3287
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Posted - 2014.02.25 05:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
well, there you have it...
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
11551
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Posted - 2014.02.25 05:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
Quoted for win
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9550
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
But barometers don't measure temperature, they measure atmospheric pressure. I smell a conspiracy.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1288
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:low genius wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have. owned. That word must mean something else where you come from. He was not owned lol silly guy.
in popular parlance... insta-blapped. |
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CCP Saberwing
C C P
C C P Alliance
1970
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Posted - 2014.02.25 06:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:[
But barometers don't measure temperature, they measure atmospheric pressure. I smell a conspiracy.
There's always one... :)
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
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COVERT SUBTERFUGE
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
DARKSTAR ARMY
372
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Posted - 2014.02.25 06:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote: It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it.
I alluded to this in another thread. If I were a dev I wouldn't exactly be foaming at the mouth to interact with a playerbase that continuously belittled and berated me and what I was doing with an onslaught of negativity and pessimism while not really offering anything constructive. I'd rather just knuckle down and do my job. Many in the community lack empathy and forget that the devs are people too and that they are doing a job just like everyone else and if these people claim that they would be fine with visiting a community full of hatred and vile on a regular basis for their job, I call BS.
Seriously, "CCP sucks...CCP fail, DUST is dead, what a joke,.......errr...CCP come talk to me!"  Yeah Ok...
Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making
Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL
Love the Art of War
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CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
802
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Posted - 2014.02.25 06:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
low genius wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:low genius wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have. owned. That word must mean something else where you come from. He was not owned lol silly guy. in popular parlance... insta-blapped.
Just to clarify - It was just more typical CCP rhetoric. "We do hear you, blah blah soon". "Still undecided" "CCP Rouge is Jesus"
I will believe it all when I see a difference. Right now its the same old same.
Join our public channel - A great place to hang out / find squads.
ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB
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Titus Stryker
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
201
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Posted - 2014.02.25 06:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think the Dev Hangout channel is great, I asked Saber every time I see him if he has any updates on Battle Arenas as they are the number one thing I want to see in this game.
Think of things from a dev perspective, there truly is a lot of noise out there and it is probably quite difficult to figure out what is hype, overreaction, wrong, right, misquided, hyperbole, extreme, fair, balanced etc. Anyone who frequents the forums knows that opinions vary vastly around here, not to mention that an opinion can be very popular and still bad for the game.
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
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Michael Pack
Metalites
5
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Posted - 2014.02.25 06:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sooo, Saberwing any news on any CCP game that may or may not be in development for the PS4? *wink wink* |
VALCORE72
NECROM0NGERS
The CORVOS
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
saber i loved what you had to say and im glad but you all to understand most of us are losen hope and the char connections . It is the player /char connection that keeps ppl in game . we had 3 game modes ,pc is broken cause it feels to much like a board game , tank spam is off the charts, new player growth is low cause ccp wont do gear based matchs,ccp maps are very bad since 80% are open range king of the hill vs tanks 'railrifles and scramlers.
I still have a little faith left ,there was a time when i played 16 hrs a day now im lucky to stand 4 or less . when ccp does any for this game the very frist question that should be asked is how some nuckle head will imbalance it . pc should not give isk , we should mine rare ore for eve ships and corps . to much to put down but so you know my 2cents for what its worth and am sleepy |
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1720
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Posted - 2014.02.25 06:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
What did we expect to get? No offense but CCP is on par with how they work and if they did it any differently we would probably **** and moan about that. Just let them work. They do read the forums, they do interact with players, they do test and they do work hard. Just relax and play another game for a while, it does help. Deep breaths and we'll all get through it.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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Eberk Baldek
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2014.02.25 07:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. ... We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread ..
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. ... There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. ... On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) ... - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. ... The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!)....
I've been reading the forums for some time now and I see quite a bit of repetition of the same points, complaints and questions. It's a bit chaotic and disorganized and it's easy to see how someone could miss the fact that their complaints and questions have already been addressed, albeit not definitively. So many threads are published so fast that many of these just quickly disappear on to page 3 or 4. If you're only looking at the forums once a week, you could easily miss them.
CCP has answered these questions several times in different places, there has been no decision on the respec/refund yet and we'll get an answer by mid-march. And no one should have to answer the same questions over and over. Have pity on them for f@ck sake! You can either be patient or move on, your choice. They have a list of problems a mile long and they're prioritising and handling them as fast as they can with all the resources they can muster. And, what's worse, they have to do everything as a group/team. No one can do anything alone in a company as there's a hierarchy there and these things take time.
COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:I alluded to this in another thread. If I were a dev I wouldn't exactly be foaming at the mouth to interact with a playerbase that continuously belittled and berated me and what I was doing with an onslaught of negativity and pessimism while not really offering anything constructive. I'd rather just knuckle down and do my job. Many in the community lack empathy and forget that the devs are people too and that they are doing a job just like everyone else and if these people claim that they would be fine with visiting a community full of hatred and vile on a regular basis for their job, I call BS. Seriously, "CCP sucks...CCP fail, DUST is dead, what a joke,.......errr...CCP come talk to me!" Yeah Ok...
A lot of us here have anger issues, myself included, and although I myself have been angered, disappointed and disillusioned at times about various aspects of DUST 514, I do think that they're on the ball now, but the sheer scale and magnitude of the problems they're facing on this megaproject is the equivalent of opening up a ten-ton can of worms. They must be saying something like: "Where the hell do we start?" It's going to take them some time to clean this mess up and make something really worthwhile with it.
Be patient, we'll probably get the notes for 1.8 within a couple of weeks and Fanfest in a few months will give us even more. |
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1401
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. But barometers don't measure temperature, they measure atmospheric pressure. I smell a conspiracy.
*Talks like Adam from Mythbusters*
.......Well, there-¦s your problem!
*grins*
<3 Saberwing
You troll us, we troll you. It-¦s a love-hate relationship.
Drop it like its hat.
CCP - Working hard on the (d)evolution of Dust 514 since 2013.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
2351
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:The dust community is controlled by a few elite members of elite corps who don't see the unbalanced matchmaking system as a significant problem. Frankly, the think they deserve the right to do what 'I report you' Moody video shows.
Matching players based on skill level (say SP tiers or average WP) is the only logical answer to so many questions: how do we grow the game, how do we get new players to stay, how do we create an enjoyable gameplay, how do we avoid epic Proto stomps, how do we avoid the ever growing gap between elite and middle of the road players.
But here lies the problem, the elite don't like to or want to play each other. They leave lobbies when they see the other team composition of elite squads and prefer to stomp on lower tier players instead of risking a competitive match. Until the elite members of the community stop complaining about useless aspects of the game like redline hiding when they are Proto stomping or rail gun tank shooting them from inside the redline to 1m outside the redline where they are waiting to stomp this game we all play will never grow. Players will leave, noobs won't play more than a few matches. Lower tier players will give up and eventually middle of the road guys will just walk away from the game because the gap is too wide to be competitive.
There is no problems bigger or that should be address with more pressing concerns than having a match where both parties have equal shot at winning and everyone in the match has a good chance at killing each other based on their SP and their skill level.
- Cots
Hi Cotsy, you may not read this but i'll respond anyways:
I'm the CEO of a small corp called Fatal Absolution. We have about 65 active players that are very active.
those 65 active players average about 60k kills a week...which is good enough to be in the top 3 this week among all corporations. We play PC, and probably fit the criteria of what you might claim as 'elite' (a pompous term i'd much prefer 'vet')
As the CEO and having hand picked all but about 5 of the members in the corp, I fee like I can speak authoritatively in saying that you are incorrect about some of your assertions and assessments, insofar as FA represents a small portion of that 'vet' population. (and not all our guys are vets but most have been playing for 5+ months and about 20 of the 65 have been playing for over a year now, including myself)
"the elite don't like to or want to play each other."
I don't know why you think this but it's untrue. I LOVE playing competitively, it's a ton of fun. It's why i deal with the imperfections of PC to continue playing it. Because it's the only game mode where you can place 16 people on the same page vs your 16.
"They leave lobbies when they see the other team composition of elite squads and prefer to stomp on lower tier players instead of risking a competitive match."
The only time I leave a lobby is if I d/c or if I am solo, my team has no squads, and the enemy team has more than 6 players who share tags as someone else in the match, and i look at our team chat and notice the only people in a squad have like 2 people in NPC corps. This is because of my VAST experience playing public matches where as one player..vs an organized other side...you simply watch in horror as you strive to win despite the odds and the enemy team sends you gg's after you go 7/17 with 1800 wp's. I play the game to have fun...not get redlined by the opposing team because my team never had a chance. I leave hoping next game I find a better match, or i go join a squad and hope I see that same team.
Whenever our guys see another squad on the other side I tell my guys "alright cats let's go hard" and we stop playing a pub like a pub and everyone puts game faces on...but you're right in the sentiment that this doesn't happen often.
In actuality everyday I play a pub (not often because if you knew the first thing about me you'd know I only play pubs when I can't cap out by solely playing PC matches..or when i'm drunk running plasma cannons and scr pistols on militia scouts) I start out squadless...inevitably get beaten and sent volatile mail by some squad...so i go get a squad hoping to see other squads and smack them.
I don't think i'm in the minority. I think if you knew a majority of the players you have opinions about you'd know a lot of us don't even like wearing proto full time (except logi's cause we like our shiny 4 proto equips) because advanced suits or lower help make us better for when we DO compete competitively vs full proto teams.
Regardless of the misallocated frustration with a portion of the playerbase you really don't understand..matchmaking is difficult.
I can tell you that if my squad doesn't mind I ask them if we can leave battles if i'm in a full squad of my own corpmates and try to reque up a few times hoping we DO find a squad of homies on the other team...but oftimes we get frustrated and end up playing w/e we are playing.
Anyways:
TL;DR 'vets' want gud fights. promise. matchmaking is broken.
CEO Fatal Absolution
B3RT > PFBHz > TP > MHPD > IMP > F4TAL
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
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G Torq
ALTA B2O
442
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Posted - 2014.02.25 08:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:[...]and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page.
People use facebook ?!?
Google Plus Community
Team Fairy DUST
HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
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Venerable Phage
Red Shirts Away Team
63
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Posted - 2014.02.25 08:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:[
But barometers don't measure temperature, they measure atmospheric pressure. I smell a conspiracy.
Well if you are measuring pressure changes for something to smell... Just stand near Godin when he sees a JLAV
Message from Godin: brrrrpppp 'I just shart myself' |
Drud Green
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
234
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Posted - 2014.02.25 08:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lol ccp saberwing, what an absolute load of pr guff.
Haven't decided on respecs yet? Hahahaha yea right, what is so ******* complicated?
If you lie and steal you should expect 'noise' lol.
Poor amateurish ccpee. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
1581
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
....
did Op just notice a problem with elections?
Oh the huge manatee... think of the Chaos
*edit - sorry whoevers cleaning the thread
The answer is "ForgeGun"... doesnt matter what the question is...
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CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
805
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Posted - 2014.02.25 08:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Drud Green wrote:Lol ccp saberwing, what an absolute load of pr guff.
Haven't decided on respecs yet? Hahahaha yea right, what is so ******* complicated?
If you lie and steal you should expect 'noise' lol.
Poor amateurish ccpee.
Thats exactly it isnt it. Its the same story, the same party line told over and over.
We understand that you may not be decided on for instance "Respecs" but what would make us feel a whole lot better is your reasons.
You could say - "We dislike the idea of respecs for this reason and that reason... we have been talking with the CPM and we are internally trying to find an area we can all agree on"
or - "We are not giving any respecs because that breaks our core tennants for the eve universe, we understand this will upset players so in turn we will create more 3x sp events (For example) as a show of good will"
We just want reasoning and what is being discussed.
The fact that you reply to facebook or other bulls**t sites instead of your own forums is evident that you only do it for publicity sake.
I may sound harsh but guys, there are many other games out there. MANY other games that are progressing so much faster. For instance Warframe. The devs say they want to do feature X and feature Y .... a month or two later there it is! A tangible thing in the game.
I'm fed up of CCP talking about grand ideas but then getting no where. DUST 514 does have its merits, it could also be a really awesome game. However DUST is not the game CCP sold to us in ideas they pitched a year or two ago. Either show us you mean business by ACTUALLY showing change and interaction or **** it, people will stop playing.
So many mistakes have been made. Granted you are only human but if you cannot learn from your mistakes in the past then you are DOOMED to failure.
Join our public channel - A great place to hang out / find squads.
ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB
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ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
1581
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Drud Green wrote:Lol ccp saberwing, what an absolute load of pr guff.
Haven't decided on respecs yet? Hahahaha yea right, what is so ******* complicated?
If you lie and steal you should expect 'noise' lol.
Poor amateurish ccpee. Thats exactly it isnt it. Its the same story, the same party line told over and over. We understand that you may not be decided on for instance "Respecs" but what would make us feel a whole lot better is your reasons. You could say - "We dislike the idea of respecs for this reason and that reason... we have been talking with the CPM and we are internally trying to find an area we can all agree on" or - "We are not giving any respecs because that breaks our core tennants for the eve universe, we understand this will upset players so in turn we will create more 3x sp events (For example) as a show of good will" We just want reasoning and what is being discussed. The fact that you reply to facebook or other bulls**t sites instead of your own forums is evident that you only do it for publicity sake. I may sound harsh but guys, there are many other games out there. MANY other games that are progressing so much faster. For instance Warframe. The devs say they want to do feature X and feature Y .... a month or two later there it is! A tangible thing in the game. I'm fed up of CCP talking about grand ideas but then getting no where. DUST 514 does have its merits, it could also be a really awesome game. However DUST is not the game CCP sold to us in ideas they pitched a year or two ago. Either show us you mean business by ACTUALLY showing change and interaction or **** it, people will stop playing. So many mistakes have been made. Granted you are only human but if you cannot learn from your mistakes in the past then you are DOOMED to failure.
If you cant see the downsides of a full respec then 'narrow minded' may be a bit difficult for you to comprehend.
Not saying it might not be the lesser of 2 evils, but its definetly not as clear cut as you seem to think lol
The answer is "ForgeGun"... doesnt matter what the question is...
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
2
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Posted - 2014.02.25 09:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
I have started to use the forums a bit more in recent weeks and have noticed that these nasty replys/posts/threads usually come after a match that has gone poorly, or the game has bugged out. I have done it myself a couple times.
In regards to matchmaking, CCP did try fixing it. I think it was the first week of 1.4 or 1.5
Unfortunately the algorithms they used for matchmaking were too picky and you would end up with 12 new players against 5 'vets'.
They have been working on it, and as frustrating as it is, we will have to wait a little longer.
The skills come with time, teamwork is what we want.
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CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
805
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Posted - 2014.02.25 09:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:Drud Green wrote:Lol ccp saberwing, what an absolute load of pr guff.
Haven't decided on respecs yet? Hahahaha yea right, what is so ******* complicated?
If you lie and steal you should expect 'noise' lol.
Poor amateurish ccpee. Thats exactly it isnt it. Its the same story, the same party line told over and over. We understand that you may not be decided on for instance "Respecs" but what would make us feel a whole lot better is your reasons. You could say - "We dislike the idea of respecs for this reason and that reason... we have been talking with the CPM and we are internally trying to find an area we can all agree on" or - "We are not giving any respecs because that breaks our core tennants for the eve universe, we understand this will upset players so in turn we will create more 3x sp events (For example) as a show of good will" We just want reasoning and what is being discussed. The fact that you reply to facebook or other bulls**t sites instead of your own forums is evident that you only do it for publicity sake. I may sound harsh but guys, there are many other games out there. MANY other games that are progressing so much faster. For instance Warframe. The devs say they want to do feature X and feature Y .... a month or two later there it is! A tangible thing in the game. I'm fed up of CCP talking about grand ideas but then getting no where. DUST 514 does have its merits, it could also be a really awesome game. However DUST is not the game CCP sold to us in ideas they pitched a year or two ago. Either show us you mean business by ACTUALLY showing change and interaction or **** it, people will stop playing. So many mistakes have been made. Granted you are only human but if you cannot learn from your mistakes in the past then you are DOOMED to failure. If you cant see the downsides of a full respec then 'narrow minded' may be a bit difficult for you to comprehend. Not saying it might not be the lesser of 2 evils, but its definetly not as clear cut as you seem to think lol Considering the devs have recently had a major restructuring and been through the most hevily holiday'd part of the year you would think there would be some understanding around here. Also please note we dont know what all the devs have been doing, fanfest is the big reveal date so please park your high horse 
I never said I wanted a full respec. On the contrary, I understand why CCP would not want to give one. However with the huge sweeping changes coming in it would be prudent to give a Dropsuit SP respec. Do you not agree?
Anyway I go through ups and downs with this game. I just took a look at reviews from both critics as well as player reviews. They all echo the same thing. Great idea, poor execution.
I keep dragging myself back here because I do love the ideas, but the reality is, nothing is changing as far as I can see. I'm on the verge of just being "done with it." Hell I wanted to spend some money on the game but there is nothing worth getting!
Join our public channel - A great place to hang out / find squads.
ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
2
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Posted - 2014.02.25 09:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Full Respec = More Protostomping
however there is still too much ISK in the dust realm, and that needs to be burned somehow, so this might be the way to do it.
The skills come with time, teamwork is what we want.
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ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
1582
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Posted - 2014.02.25 09:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:
I never said I wanted a full respec. On the contrary, I understand why CCP would not want to give one. However with the huge sweeping changes coming in it would be prudent to give a Dropsuit SP respec. Do you not agree?
Anyway I go through ups and downs with this game. I just took a look at reviews from both critics as well as player reviews. They all echo the same thing. Great idea, poor execution. (Most reviews were lucky to give this game a 5/10. If that doesn't give CCP a kick in the rear end then I dont think anything ever will)
I keep dragging myself back here because I do love the ideas, but the reality is, nothing is changing as far as I can see. I'm on the verge of just being "done with it." Hell I wanted to spend some money on the game but there is nothing worth getting!
Sorry that was really for the origionally quoted guy lol. I think partial respecs are a better idea than full for sure, but to what extent and to what i can understand could take a bit of thought.
Im an ol bitter beta vet, i know the ups n downs too and thats why i am still here. CCP has always come through and like you said the idea is epic.
The answer is "ForgeGun"... doesnt matter what the question is...
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steadyhand amarr
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
2366
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
While understand your points it does remove the distrust and complete lack of faith players have in ccp right now. For the last two years its been the same story over and over again why should this time be any different.
What would go a long way to fix this i feel is for someone to draw up a where we went wrong and lessions learned dev blog. The communty needs to see proof ccp has got it together before any vet or newcommer buy into Dust514 again . I myself honstaly dont think ccp gets the shooter market and will keep spriling for years.
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
312
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Posted - 2014.02.25 11:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote: It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it.
I alluded to this in another thread. If I were a dev I wouldn't exactly be foaming at the mouth to interact with a playerbase that continuously belittled and berated me and what I was doing with an onslaught of negativity and pessimism while not really offering anything constructive. I'd rather just knuckle down and do my job. Many in the community lack empathy and forget that the devs are people too and that they are doing a job just like everyone else and if these people claim that they would be fine with visiting a community full of hatred and vile on a regular basis for their job, I call BS. Seriously, "CCP sucks...CCP fail, DUST is dead, what a joke,.......errr...CCP come talk to me!" Yeah Ok...
And that's why community managers are literally ****ing amazing people, they're like Mother Teresa crossed with the patience and enlightenment of Buddha. |
Corbina Ninja
Maphia Clan Corporation
643
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Posted - 2014.02.25 12:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
remove NDA! NOW!!!
> Test Signature Please Ignore
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Shadow Archeus
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
297
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Posted - 2014.02.25 12:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
OK here's my problem with part of what u said saber wing
The sheer level of noise???? From who?....dust doesn't have a huge player base.....if you throw eve players in I guess that makes sense but here another point
What would have been done about this SHEER LEVEL OF NOISE if the game had been MASSIVELY popular.....
Impo having cpms is like having a congress of sorts.....the thing is that most of the time the congress starts feeding their OWN interests and not the PLAYER BASES
Real heavies use lasers
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MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
313
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Posted - 2014.02.25 12:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Shadow Archeus wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have. OK here's my problem with part of what u said saber wing The sheer level of noise???? From who?....dust doesn't have a huge player base.....if you throw eve players in I guess that makes sense but here another point What would have been done about this SHEER LEVEL OF NOISE if the game had been MASSIVELY popular..... Impo having cpms is like having a congress of sorts.....the thing is that most of the time the congress starts feeding their OWN interests and not the PLAYER BASES
4000+ people who don't even have a good grasp on their own oppinions is a lot of noise. "This game sucks, this game is dead, give us a respec so were happy and continue to play" |
Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
5096
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 12:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:
Just to clarify - It was just more typical CCP rhetoric. "We do hear you, blah blah soon". "Still undecided" "CCP Rouge is Jesus"
I will believe it all when I see a difference. Right now its the same old same.
I understand that a lot of people in the community are very tired and have long since grown impatient but when you come off like this, you can't turn around and accuse CCP of not listening or being active with the community, wanting them to be the "Better Man" when everyday the forums are chalk full of acid spewing negativity and general cynicism. Apart from some very, very thick skinned individuals like CCP Sabrewing, all this really does is chase people away. If you can't even give them the opportunity to do the right thing than what are we left with?
Sure, you want results. Everyone does. Results, however, take time and considering that CCP Shanghai is hiring for so many positions, rest assured they're taking this seriously (why else would they dish out that kinda money if they're only interested in extorting you  ?). Not to mention the fact that these guys have been on the grind releasing monthly patches up until the recent holidays. Might not have what you want in the patches, but they are doing something, contrary to popular belief.
So, you can say it's just more typical CCP rhetoric, and you can say 'I've given them plenty of opportunities to do 'x'" but keep in mind that your words do affect people. First and foremost, understand that each developer works on something different so getting angry at the guy who has no control over the issue that bothers you most doesn't accomplish much. Put yourself in that developer's shoes. Think to yourself, "How would I react to a bunch of angry people who are made at me simply because of where I work, even though I can literally do nothing about it besides pass it along?"
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Takron Nistrom
Tinfoil Hatz
229
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Posted - 2014.02.25 12:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote: It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it.
I alluded to this in another thread. If I were a dev I wouldn't exactly be foaming at the mouth to interact with a playerbase that continuously belittled and berated me and what I was doing with an onslaught of negativity and pessimism while not really offering anything constructive. I'd rather just knuckle down and do my job. Many in the community lack empathy and forget that the devs are people too and that they are doing a job just like everyone else and if these people claim that they would be fine with visiting a community full of hatred and vile on a regular basis for their job, I call BS. Seriously, "CCP sucks...CCP fail, DUST is dead, what a joke,.......errr...CCP come talk to me!" Yeah Ok...
Yes....but....if CCP fixed glaring issues faster than once a year and told us things or allowed devs or the CPM to tell us things, then we wouldnt be so angry and bitter. It helps to see ur at least trying and the current way they do things makes a lot of ppl upset. If it wasnt for the loyal fans of this game that have foresight, this game would be dead. Something CCP needs to really realize because not even us loyalists are going to stick around for many more ballkicks, in exchange for a promise of paradise.
GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥
GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
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Alternate Insano
SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD
170
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Posted - 2014.02.25 12:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Saberwing should run for politics. He gave a long response that answered nothing, and a pack of ass kissing fanboys immediately jumped in to defend him and attack the author of the OP.
What a surprise!
DUST 514 Super Scrub
Level 262 Forum Troll
Play, or play not. There is no balance.
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Leonid Tybalt
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
268
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Posted - 2014.02.25 12:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I personally don't think we shouldn't have a CPM.
Agreed.
Everyone living in a representative democracy should know what a bullshit system it is.
And the so called "cpm" has even less accountability than real world politicians do, so why the hell should the "community" trust them any more than the next idiot?
Also do bear in mind that the cpm is just a way for ccp to avoid having to spend actual money on sufficient playtesting and the like. They are letting us consumers do the legwork but we get no financial compnsation for it what so ever. But people who support the cpm are either too blind or too ignorant to actually realize it. -.- |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1322
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Posted - 2014.02.25 12:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rinzler XVIII wrote:TL;DR Just want to get a few things off my chest, I don't expect anyone to care or even read it all .. or even respond
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-We have an autocracy using the facade of a democracy. Those in positions of 'power' will always cater to the interests of those who put them in that position in the 1st place hence the CCP love in I see from prominent members in the community despite all of the mistakes that have been made and keep being made.
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
-The Tank 100% Nitrous mistake is absolutely horrific for a company of CCPs stature, being added at 100% n the 1st place is a minor mistake that is completely understandable but for that to then be added into the game is a total shambles .. did no-one check the changes before the patch was implemented ? These are absolute basics .. you add a change and you check it to make sure it's correct and then you confirm that it is right and patch it into the game. I'm not even talking about it actually being game tested either and whilst I think not game testing new content or changes is a fail I can understand they are restricted somewhat by Sony QA.
-Balance will never be achieved until core fundamentals and mechanics are set in place. CCP need to decide on what they want this game to be and then stick with it, with the addition of AA and improved hit detection TTK dropped drastically and speed tanking died to be replaced with Dual Tanking and high eHP Armor suits.1.8 damage is being reduced and with certain suits gaining resistances to certain weapon types this will increase TTK, by how much ? No-one will know, not even CCP until 1.8 drops and we get to 'test' the game for them and this is the curse of not play testing updates and patches before release. What if TTK is increased by too much and it takes a minute of 3 people firing to kill someone ? Does that mean 1.9 will see damage increased and resistances reduced to reduce TTK again ? Changes introduced that improve the game are great, repeated changes to the same thing because you can't balance it due to a lack of testing isn't and is one of the most frustrating things a game developer can do to it's player base !
-The decisions matter argument, I'm tired of listening to the flawed logic of mad men so I'm going to end this once and for all ... If the only changes to the game are the addition of new content then your decisions matter however when sweeping changes are made to existing content that fundamentally change the playstyle of that suit/weapon/vehicle then your decisions DON'T matter because what you end up with is something you skilled into for X Y Z reason and now that reason is no longer applicable and therefore a previously informed decision that you made has been rendered pointless as the information that you based that decision on has been changed.
EG If you were to invest into a business based on market trends, research, economics, accounts, share prices that specialised in producing electronic goods and then 1 year down the line they suddenly switched to selling soil which renders all the previous information you based the decision on meaningless you'd expect the option to pull your investment out of that business before they switched what the core of the business actually does. If you were told that you couldn't get your investment back because 'Your decisions matter' you'd shoot that argument down right there and then and maybe even the person telling you 'Your decisions matter' as well.
If your for or against an SP Refund then thats your prerogative but try and use a real reason that your against it rather than this argument, it doesn't cut the mustard anymore
Phew that's all for now
I hear ya Bro.
In 1.6 I posted a thread saying the range nerf to swarms was too much and got NOTHING as far as a CCP response.
And I was right.
In 1.6 I asked why the rail rifles had such high damage and long range and extremely good hipfire makeing them another flavor of the then op tac ar.
NOTHING as far as a CCP response and the response from CPM Iron Wolf Saber was a basic STFU...lol.
In 1.6 I posted a thread saying tanks were outrunning jeeps and got called a liar and NOTHING as far as a CCP response.
How about something as simple as the date a Dev Blog is going to be posted?
The CCP response is to quote NDA.
Excuse me? EXCUSE ME?? are we in Closed Beta? no, then are we in Open Beta? NO! then whats the point of saying NDA as a way to tell folks to shut up about a simple request for information??
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Aisha Ctarl
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3559
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
Barometers measure atmospheric pressure, not temperature.
I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
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COVERT SUBTERFUGE
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
DARKSTAR ARMY
380
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
Takron Nistrom wrote:COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote: It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it.
I alluded to this in another thread. If I were a dev I wouldn't exactly be foaming at the mouth to interact with a playerbase that continuously belittled and berated me and what I was doing with an onslaught of negativity and pessimism while not really offering anything constructive. I'd rather just knuckle down and do my job. Many in the community lack empathy and forget that the devs are people too and that they are doing a job just like everyone else and if these people claim that they would be fine with visiting a community full of hatred and vile on a regular basis for their job, I call BS. Seriously, "CCP sucks...CCP fail, DUST is dead, what a joke,.......errr...CCP come talk to me!" Yeah Ok... Yes....but....if CCP fixed glaring issues faster than once a year and told us things or allowed devs or the CPM to tell us things, then we wouldnt be so angry and bitter. It helps to see ur at least trying and the current way they do things makes a lot of ppl upset. If it wasnt for the loyal fans of this game that have foresight, this game would be dead. Something CCP needs to really realize because not even us loyalists are going to stick around for many more ballkicks, in exchange for a promise of paradise.
Seriously, CCP's interaction with its community is the best I've seen in the industry. While they're not here every single day whispering sweet nothings into the community's ear, they drop by and give updates from time to time and CCP Logibro and Saberwing do a fantastic job of being the link. And really, it's only been over the past 3 months that info's been super scarce and I imagine that's attributed to much of what Saberwing mentioned, namely the appointment of a new EP and clustered holidays.
There's work to be done communication wise; CPM1 needs to be developed into more of an analytical conduit of well thought out community feedback and opinion and the info/feedback loop needs to be refined but spitting acid and being a grumpy ******* full of scorn just isn't productive. Anyone who is being honest with themselves and puts themselves in that position where all they are getting for their efforts is vitriol should be able to see this. As I said, if I were a CCP dev I certainly wouldn't be motivated to come into these forums.
Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making
Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL
Love the Art of War
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1322
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
The question I had in 1.6 was why rail rifles had such good damage, long range and extremely good hipfire for CQC makeing them another flavor of the op tac ar.
The only response I got was from CPM Iron Wolf Saber makeing fun of my points and saying that how did I know since 1.7 had yet to be deployed and that the best thing to do was be quiet and wait for 1.7 deployment.
Excuse me?, EXCUSE ME? the least that we ask is when an imbalance is spotted(before content lock) is to take note and at least double check those numbers.
Not have a CPM saying a basic STFU about a problem that was spotted.
I have been helping test this game close to two years but with "responses" like that it just makes me look real good at the upcomeing list of PS4 games.
Not angry or anything just sad that once Planetside 2 is here that perhaps its time to move on to the PS4.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1322
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:Takron Nistrom wrote:COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote: It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it.
I alluded to this in another thread. If I were a dev I wouldn't exactly be foaming at the mouth to interact with a playerbase that continuously belittled and berated me and what I was doing with an onslaught of negativity and pessimism while not really offering anything constructive. I'd rather just knuckle down and do my job. Many in the community lack empathy and forget that the devs are people too and that they are doing a job just like everyone else and if these people claim that they would be fine with visiting a community full of hatred and vile on a regular basis for their job, I call BS. Seriously, "CCP sucks...CCP fail, DUST is dead, what a joke,.......errr...CCP come talk to me!" Yeah Ok... Yes....but....if CCP fixed glaring issues faster than once a year and told us things or allowed devs or the CPM to tell us things, then we wouldnt be so angry and bitter. It helps to see ur at least trying and the current way they do things makes a lot of ppl upset. If it wasnt for the loyal fans of this game that have foresight, this game would be dead. Something CCP needs to really realize because not even us loyalists are going to stick around for many more ballkicks, in exchange for a promise of paradise. Seriously, CCP's interaction with its community is the best I've seen in the industry. While they're not here every single day whispering sweet nothings into the community's ear, they drop by and give updates from time to time and CCP Logibro and Saberwing do a fantastic job of being the link. And really, it's only been over the past 3 months that info's been super scarce and I imagine that's attributed to much of what Saberwing mentioned, namely the appointment of a new EP and clustered holidays. There's work to be done communication wise; CPM1 needs to be developed into more of an analytical conduit of well thought out community feedback and opinion and the info/feedback loop needs to be refined but spitting acid and being a grumpy ******* full of scorn just isn't productive. Anyone who is being honest with themselves and puts themselves in that position where all they are getting for their efforts is vitriol should be able to see this. As I said, if I were a CCP dev I certainly wouldn't be motivated to come into these forums.
Feedback drives a project be it a movie, product or game.
Several MONTHS ago I posted why not have the feedback forums better organized instead of a jumble let there be:
Feedback forum:
Weapons
Vehicles.
Suits.
Suit/vehicle/weapon mods
New game modes.
And so far?
Devs said it was a good idea!!!
And??
Waiting and waiting and waiting.
Feedback forums are still the same.
Not mad just dissapointed.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
203
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
You know there is 6,000 people logging into this game CCP, I don't understand why you can't take the time to answer my questions. I come to the forums and spend my precious time asking questions and voicing my concerns. I log into the chat rooms and try to get in the special dev contracts. Most of the vocal CPM I don't agree with and I see the threads of constant crying of people don't that understand range, evasion, or tactical maneuvers. You need a program for us loyal mercs, say that log in for consecutive 365 days get to ask 5 questions to the Devs for answers.
All sarcasm aside, I think you guys do a good job working with what you have here. Coming from a development background I can see how hard it is to produce quality products. As much thinking you do to make the game something, planning spreedsheets and it just takes one piece of debug jetcan code to throw everything you spent years planing out the window. In turn moving the game unchangable into a new direction for better or worse.
Our community is a horrible storm for the devs, navigating the seas of development with rockey waters, thunderstorms, and a million and one things trying to sink your ship. While you have your destination clear in your mind a course correction is needed almost every hour. All sailing ships are always a bit off course. I envy the challenge of the develoment process, getting to a uncharted game successful is no small undertaking. Good luck /ccp and answer me damn it. :p
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Original ROF needs to return!
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1349
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:
- We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!).
I Hope CCP Rouge and the Dev team at CCP Shanghai... are Willing to share that confidence with the community soon. Because the sorry state of DUST at the moment is literally causing a crisis of faith amoungst peer's and they are leaving the game finally after a year+
Dust You-tuber wrote:DUST is in a sorry State at the moment.. A Laggy, Glitchy, Crashing, 10 FPS, Unbalanced Lobby shooter on the PS3.n++
We need that confidence that you have that this is going to change... because CCP Shanghai's Words haven't met their actions often... So yes... not much confidence left in the community... We need a State of the union address to rally people and pull the community together. |
|
|
Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
3480
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
My signature...
The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game.
Scout // Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
|
NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
203
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:My signature...
so true
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Original ROF needs to return!
|
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
473
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points -
- Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature.
- There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it.
On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :)
- We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day.
I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
I feel what Rinzler is talking about though. While you claim to interact with your players, you tell us "put it on the forums", "moved to features/ideas section" etc....Not send me a message on facebook if you'd like a better explanation.
I feel like some of the 'private' chats through IRC and Facebook/twitter/etc contain some very viable information that we as a community should hear about from CCP firsthand. Not some vet coming in and creating a topic "Last night's IRC chat w/ Saberwing" where we find out the latest news only to have a DEVtag come in later and confirm it.
I have no doubt that CCP Rouge is working his @$$ off to make this game better. You guys are constantly revamping things in an EFFORT to satisfy your rabid player base (myself on of them). We do appreciate this, though you don't always get the recognition you deserve.
However, when there are simple, basic mistakes like 100% nitrous instead of 10.0% nitrous it makes us wonder how thorough you guys are being. It takes 1 game played by you guys in the new stuff to figure out something went wrong and that didn't happen. Those mistakes, repeated over and over again (confirmed through the endless buff/nerf cycle) help to undermine our confidence in the development of a game that has SO MUCH POTENTIAL.
We ask for simple things like the BPO statistics or an official statement with evidence that illustrates why you feel they are potentially harmful to the economy. And if they are, then what is the stance on the PC locking that generates passive ISK? A simple "mechanics are working as intended" would suffice or "We are investigating the Corporations who are farming passive ISK and will take action against this as it is an exploit".
The laser buff that was supposed to come out "in the next week or so" from about 4 weeks ago?
You've released stats for suits then said basically none are official, so go speculate. Then when the community cries about changes and respecs, all of the sudden we are the ones who are so volatile you need "thick skin" to deal with us? I mean you gave us bogus information(unconfirmed), why even release it? I'm pretty sure trolling is against the forum rules :)
There are plenty more cases like the aforementioned, I'm just chiming in with what's fresh off the top of my head. Telling us if we want to communicate ideas to you, to do so over facebook or twitter is a bit absurd when there is an Official place to do that here in the forums.
Also, in regards to CPM, what a terrible idea. Let's take a bitter vet (we all are) with vested 3rd party interests (we all have them) and give them sensitive information and TRUST they'll keep secrets (in New Eden? seriously?). As the moderators, how you even see this as a good idea is well beyond my comprehension.
Pro-fit Prophet
"Gimme yo lunch money"
|
Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
131
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
Good Vent Op and solid reply Saberwing.
What we need now though is proof. This is the final week of February.
If 1.8 is going to be out mid to late March I would like to see (starting this week or at latest next week) a definitive list of all that is being implemented, suits weapons etc. That should be followed up by finalized stats for said content as you have had enough time for discussion and should be confident by now. That should then be followed up by the decision (the week before implementation) on the Infantry respec / refund.
Coming out of 1.8 we should then see the plan of action for 2014.
You dont have to give away all details as we understand you have FanFest and like to keep treats quiet to surprise us but we would like to see stuff along the lines of where you want to take the game in near future, how CCP thinks mechanics are playing out and if certain systems are working as intended; any new in-game features which can enhance the meta game and also more connectivity with EVE etc.
"Shine bright like a diamond"
|
Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
1885
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
What we need is a Brometer.
My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Cat Merc, Darken-Soul, Long Evity and DeadlyAztec11.
|
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4741
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:
On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more.
I like how it seems like we're asking for a Billion ISK each, or something unreasonable like asking to get back SP for investing in something you didn't have a choice about, like I don't know, the heavy class? 2 years it took for any racial suits to get here, and now there's a debate over at CCP about if people should be given a respec? lol
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
|
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4741
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dust You-tuber wrote:DUST is in a sorry State at the moment.. A Laggy, Glitchy, Crashing, 10 FPS, Unbalanced Lobby shooter on the PS3.n++
but... this has ALWAYS been DUST... this isn't a "at the moment" thing.
I've been here since closed beta, and while the game has come a long way, it's still sub par. After all the pipe dreams and big talk nothing much has changed. Frames are still a mess, balance in the game is STILL poor since beta, the game is STILL a lobby shooter, and content is STILL leaking through the cracks slower than people realize.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
|
Ankbar Latrommi
S.e.V.e.N.
General Tso's Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Dust You-tuber wrote:DUST is in a sorry State at the moment.. A Laggy, Glitchy, Crashing, 10 FPS, Unbalanced Lobby shooter on the PS3.n++ but... this has ALWAYS been DUST... this isn't a "at the moment" thing.
I could not describe DUST this way and be truthful. I have no idea what you're talking about.
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
|
commando biffle
Shadow Company HQ
Lokun Listamenn
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:[
But barometers don't measure temperature, they measure atmospheric pressure. I smell a conspiracy. There's always one... :)
STFU you troll take your jod for real this game is in a bad place and you trolling is not helping your jod is to make us buy stuff and you trolling is not helping at all |
COVERT SUBTERFUGE
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
DARKSTAR ARMY
388
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
^ as I was saying. Don't listen to him, you're doing a great jod. 
Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making
Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL
Love the Art of War
|
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Rinzler XVIII
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
98
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
Thanks for the response although I do still have some responses to the points you made
-Without being responded too the only way players know that they are being heard is when their ideas are implemented but this very rarely happens and is why to most of the player base, it feels like we are constantly ignored. You could add a little marker on the forums for each topic that gets a tick next to it when a DEV has visited it so at least the players know it has been looked at.
I can accept that you may be too busy to make a response or indeed can't make a response due to vetting and NDA restrictions but knowing that it has at least been looked at would ease peoples minds, right now we have nothing but your word and with the current problems with the game like broken PC perma locking or matchmaking which have been around for a while and have been discussed in great detail by the community and still nothing has been done about them, it gives the impression that it is't being dealt with.
When you add into that Soon TM and a history of taking months to get round to simple fixes the players start losing faith and we end up with the general disdain for 'We are looking into it' and as a result the community makes alot of noise and makes alot of complaints. This isn't due to the community being awful or horrible it is purely due to the frustration they feel when they see the same mistakes being repeated and is why we'd like more engagement between CCP and the players.
Let's be frank here .. the players want this game to succeed just as much as CCP and is why the community is so vocal .. if they didn't care and wanted the game to fail they simply wouldn't play it. CCP need to stop treating us like fools and realise that as people who play this game (Alot more than CCP do) we can help them make this game into a success and maybe realise the pre BETA potential that got me playing this game in the 1st place. Afterall we are your target market and who better to improve the game than the very people your trying to 'sell' it too.
- In regards to CCP Rouge we really will have to wait and see, 1.7 has been horrible .. (I'm infantry so yeah .. OP Tanks for 3 months was never going to make me go crazy for the game but thats a side issue) and we have had to deal with it for nearly 3 months and I haven't noticed anything different since CCP Rouge began his role. We have no idea what his intentions for the game are or what the roadmap is, we still aren't being informed on a regular basis about anything game related, we are still seeing glaring balance issues being made time and time again, we are still being told Soon TM. Actions speak louder than words and CCP haven't done anything different with CCP Rouge than they did previously.
|
NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
203
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:
On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more.
I like how it seems like we're asking for a Billion ISK each, or something unreasonable like asking to get back SP for investing in something you didn't have a choice about, like I don't know, the heavy class? 2 years it took for any racial suits to get here, and now there's a debate over at CCP about if people should be given a respec? lol
You did have a choice.. I made the choice to not spec into dropsuits. 35m SP here.. only 1.6m in DS command. If there is a respec there is going to be hell to pay about Contacts and AUR reimbursement.
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Original ROF needs to return!
|
Rinzler XVIII
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
100
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:03:00 -
[63] - Quote
Continued
- That is just a standard Soon TM response which I am immune to, If you can't answer how and when then it's a waste of your time and my time.
The point I was making wasn't about whether we should or shouldn't get an infantry SP refund it was saying that you clearly have some issues with granting one so it would be far better if these doubts or issues were expressed to the community. All it would take would be a 10 minute meeting where your doubts were noted down and then posted on the forums so we know why your finding it so hard to make a decision about it and it could be discussed amongst the players/CPMs/DEVS to reach a general consensus of possible alternatives or solutions. Right now we have no idea what is holding CCP back from making what a majority of the community thinks is a pretty easy decision.
It isn't the lack of a definitive conclusion about yes or no to an SP refund it is the lack of communication about how the decision being reached.
Anyway thanks for the response, even if we may not necessarily agree on certain issues it is better to know that your concerns have been noted than feel like your being ignored.
Really the solution to all your problems would be to make Rinzler a DEV but sadly for CCP .. I fight for the User
o7 |
The legend345
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
4424
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:22:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
Players do get heard! "we just don't do **** after we hear them out"
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Uprising God of Tanking Oculus Rift
|
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4745
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:
On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more.
I like how it seems like we're asking for a Billion ISK each, or something unreasonable like asking to get back SP for investing in something you didn't have a choice about, like I don't know, the heavy class? 2 years it took for any racial suits to get here, and now there's a debate over at CCP about if people should be given a respec? lol You did have a choice.. I made the choice to not spec into dropsuits. 35m SP here.. only 1.6m in DS command. If there is a respec there is going to be hell to pay about Contacts and AUR reimbursement.
you obviously didn't see the point.
There was only one (1) heavy race for 2 years. If you wanted to play as a heavy, for 2 years you had no choice but to invest in the Amarr heavy suit. So no, there was no choice given to people who wanted to play the heavy.
i have no idea how DS command ended up in this or AUR... or even "Contacts" 
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
|
Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
2372
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
Oh **** Lance still patrols this ****. I thought you were retired you old scalawag!
CEO: FA
B3RT > PFBHz > TP > IMP > FA
@ZataraRought Skype: Zatara.Rought
|
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4747
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Oh **** Lance still patrols this ****. I thought you were retired you old scalawag!
i still pop up here and there in hopes that a miracle hit CCP and DUST becomes more than it currently is
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
|
Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
133
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:you obviously didn't see the point. There was only one (1) heavy race for 2 years. If you wanted to play as a heavy, for 2 years you had no choice but to invest in the Amarr heavy suit. So no, there was no choice given to people who wanted to play the heavy. i have no idea how DS command ended up in this or AUR... or even "Contacts"
I always love when people use that logic... you dont have to spec into that, you can just wait
Yes, CCP created a game where the purpose is dont play if your basic content isnt available, check back periodically while your SP accumulates /s
"Shine bright like a diamond"
|
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4748
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:you obviously didn't see the point. There was only one (1) heavy race for 2 years. If you wanted to play as a heavy, for 2 years you had no choice but to invest in the Amarr heavy suit. So no, there was no choice given to people who wanted to play the heavy. i have no idea how DS command ended up in this or AUR... or even "Contacts" I always love when people use that logic... you dont have to spec into that, you can just wait Yes, CCP created a game where the purpose is dont play if your basic content isnt available, check back periodically while your SP accumulates /s
wait 2+ years to play heavy in DUST... like a boss 
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
|
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
204
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
Go Saber go Saber go! Go Saber go Saber go!
FAME
Click for Vehicle Support
Click for Recruitment
|
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lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
Zero-Day
143
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:00:00 -
[71] - Quote
Honestly right now I feel like I am a fan of Rinzler XVIII, his ideas make sense to me, I have felt the same frustrations as he has. I also feel that certain members of CPM are abusive and just down right insulting to people basically telling them to shut up that their ideas do not matter. I am not sure if even having elections will matter or change this. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1775
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:17:00 -
[72] - Quote
I just want to say that I don't want to see dev responses in General Discussion, but in Feedback and Requests (now Features and Ideas). For example why aren't the devs creating and/or participating in the relevant threads about respecs, vehicle balance and medium suit stats just to name a few examples?
When I say devs I also don't mean the community managers, as it should be the actual devs in charge of the specific stuff that comes in and, for example in the case of medium suit stats, explains what they plan to do with it. They're still being worked on, so they can't give final numbers, but they can tell us what they plan to do. Then we have a place to discuss these ideas with the devs because they should certainly stay in the discussion and reply.
When I look at the forum section now I have to search for a good while to find any dev responses at all, even in the stickied threads there are practically none. That's simply disappointing.
And yeah, Saberwing's response is just the same old stuff we heard 2 years ago.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4755
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:I just want to say that I don't want to see dev responses in General Discussion, but in Feedback and Requests (now Features and Ideas). For example why aren't the devs creating and/or participating in the relevant threads about respecs, vehicle balance and medium suit stats just to name a few examples?
When I say devs I also don't mean the community managers, as it should be the actual devs in charge of the specific stuff that comes in and, for example in the case of medium suit stats, explains what they plan to do with it. They're still being worked on, so they can't give final numbers, but they can tell us what they plan to do. Then we have a place to discuss these ideas with the devs because they should certainly stay in the discussion and reply.
When I look at the forum section now I have to search for a good while to find any dev responses at all, even in the stickied threads there are practically none. That's simply disappointing.
And yeah, Saberwing's response is just the same old stuff we heard 2 years ago.
You see where he replied? In a thread basically calling them out. It's a joke, and CCP continues to not care what people have to say... oh, maybe after someone calls them out on it.
Countless re spec / sp refund threads, NOT A SINGLE REPLY... but when this OP say a couple things that might hurt some feelings, instant blue tag and a half baked answer at that.
Devs don't care what people have to "suggest" about their game. Do people not realize DUST has been CCPs way or no way??? Only thing the community has any say on is nerfs and buffs, and even then it's usually because CCP messed up on a number. DUST has been in a steady state of mess since Uprising, when they decided that feedback wasn't their concern.
I hope I get a dev reply to me, because I'm calling them out. In Chromosome they listened... since Uprising they don't care. I don't care what a dev comes and tells me, this is how it looks, and is the reason so many players left DUST, because the game failed, and the devs failed to listen.
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
|
Rusty Shallows
1036
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote: It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. I alluded to this in another thread. If I were a dev I wouldn't exactly be foaming at the mouth to interact with a playerbase that continuously belittled and berated me and what I was doing with an onslaught of negativity and pessimism while not really offering anything constructive. I'd rather just knuckle down and do my job. Many in the community lack empathy and forget that the devs are people too and that they are doing a job just like everyone else and if these people claim that they would be fine with visiting a community full of hatred and vile on a regular basis for their job, I call BS. Seriously, "CCP sucks...CCP fail, DUST is dead, what a joke,.......errr...CCP come talk to me!" Yeah Ok...
That is the problem. A bunch of us were constructive in the old Feedback/Suggestions forum and it didn't have any appreciable effect. 2013 could be pretty much summed up with political nerfing and neglecting problems. To be fair their staff is probably dealing with so many things only so much can be done. They had to suspend PVE just to improvement general mechanics like hit-detection. That is a pretty big clue right there to their workload.
With Uprising 1.7 it showed CCP essentially ignored those of us who were constructive and simply applied every nerf request made on the forums and IRC. It is hard if not impossible to be respectful or even courteous when the same isn't being applied to you. In my case it didn't help that every time I stuck up for them that year the changes always ended with a solid nerfing instead of a rebalance.
I've run out of second, third, or fourth chances to pass out. CCP is going to have to earn it now. Good luck Devs, those are some serious complex problems you have to deal with.
Kudos to CCP Saberwing for taking the OPs questions on in a professional manner. Both of them handled this well.
PS a shout out to CCP Remnant. He informed us as to why the original Mass Driver erroneous nerfing happened at Uprising 1.0. Otherwise we'd still be in the dark and be reduced to cynical sarcasm. It takes strong character to step-up like that. As much as I despise CCP right now CCP Remnant still has my utmost respect and admiration.
Here, have some candy and a Like. :-)
Forums > Game
|
R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1222
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process
Hi Saberwing
I would really, really like to see a dev blog expanding on this.
Pretty please with Morphite on top?
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1776
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:45:00 -
[76] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:You see where he replied? In a thread basically calling them out. It's a joke, and CCP continues to not care what people have to say... oh, maybe after someone calls them out on it.
Countless re spec / sp refund threads, NOT A SINGLE REPLY... but when this OP say a couple things that might hurt some feelings, instant blue tag and a half baked answer at that.
Devs don't care what people have to "suggest" about their game. Do people not realize DUST has been CCPs way or no way??? Only thing the community has any say on is nerfs and buffs, and even then it's usually because CCP messed up on a number. DUST has been in a steady state of mess since Uprising, when they decided that feedback wasn't their concern.
I hope I get a dev reply to me, because I'm calling them out. In Chromosome they listened... since Uprising they don't care. I don't care what a dev comes and tells me, this is how it looks, and is the reason so many players left DUST, because the game failed, and the devs failed to listen.
Oh I know. Their "Your feedback on Dust 514 matters!" newsletter amused me a great deal.
Although I do disagree about them listening in Chromosome, as I don't believe they've ever listened. Chromosome wasn't really all that great either.
But yeah, there's practically zero non-community managers dev responses on these forums (or anywhere for that matter).
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
|
NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
204
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:There was only one (1) heavy race for 2 years. If you wanted to play as a heavy, for 2 years you had no choice but to invest in the Amarr heavy suit. So no, there was no choice given to people who wanted to play the heavy. i have no idea how DS command ended up in this or AUR... or even "Contacts"
I play heavy.. ask anyone in my corp. I'll eve post some video if you like which is my main play-style. I have max skills in Forge Gun and have been having tons of fun with the heavy event using a HMG which I have no skills in beside level 3. You have to use your skillpoints wisely.
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Original ROF needs to return!
|
Rinzler XVIII
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
118
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
BTW I just want to thank everyone who spent anytime reading the OP, I know it was alot of text and honestly I wasn't expecting anyone to respond/read it and was braced for being trolled.
So thank you for considering my points seriously and responding in due diligence its much appreciated !!
o7 |
Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
708
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:15:00 -
[79] - Quote
Rinzler XVIII wrote:BTW I just want to thank everyone who spent anytime reading the OP, I know it was alot of text and honestly I wasn't expecting anyone to respond/read it and was braced for being trolled.
So thank you for considering my points seriously and responding in due diligence its much appreciated !!
o7
well thought out arguments Rinzler. Fastest way to clear up all the negativity would be a rapid improvement of the game but I'm not expecting miracles.
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
|
Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
537
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:22:00 -
[80] - Quote
/sigh
This is one of the worst communities I've ever seen in any game.
The only thing that comes to mind for comparison is the Asura, Bakasura.
No matter what it receives, it still wants more to cram into it's face. Nothing ever satiates it.
CCP can continue to keep adding content, and it's not good enough. More needs to be added NAOW.
CCP can try to fix matchmaking, and then while it's slightly better then before...no, it then claims matchmaking is as bad as it was in closed beta and nothings changed.
CCP can attempt to provide more communication then they previously did, succeed at it...then get thrashed by the forums saying they are never around and ignoring us.
CCP can respond to a few threads about a specific topic, but it's not good enough, they have to respond to EVERY thread and repeat the same thing over and over again just to fill it's stomach.
I would actually be satisfied if CCP just canned the entire game. Many of you don't deserve to play any game with your unquenchable thirsts and self entitled attitudes.
CCP may have dug the hole they are currently in, but this community keeps piling on dirt to make sure it stays that way.
/sigh
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|
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4762
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:30:00 -
[81] - Quote
lol fanboy alert.
The reason people are here is because they are / were passionate about the game, and people that are passionate tend to get angry / disappointed / frustrated when things fail to meet expectations.
To be honest, most expectations here aren't even that high.
Oh wow we're getting new heavy suits... after 2 years of playing the game they NOW bringing them. Yea congrats CCP, new content. Forgive people for not praising and bowing down to CCP for giving them something they've wanted for a long time.
"Satisfaction is the death of desire"
When people are satisfied with this game, they'll get bored and move on. In other cases, the lack of content, and the lack of a game that isn't a sub par lobby shooter will chase or already chase the majority of its fans away.
So you feel free to give CCP a pat on the back, and a "good job" speech. I don't even play this game anymore, but i want this game to be good when it reaches PS4 2023 (when the PS5 coming out), so I'll continue my cynical tirades.
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
|
Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
537
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:39:00 -
[82] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:lol fanboy alert.
The reason people are here is because they are / were passionate about the game, and people that are passionate tend to get angry / disappointed / frustrated when things fail to meet expectations.
To be honest, most expectations here aren't even that high.
Oh wow we're getting new heavy suits... after 2 years of playing the game they NOW bringing them. Yea congrats CCP, new content. Forgive people for not praising and bowing down to CCP for giving them something they've wanted for a long time.
"Satisfaction is the death of desire"
When people are satisfied with this game, they'll get bored and move on. In other cases, the lack of content, and the lack of a game that isn't a sub par lobby shooter will chase or already chase the majority of its fans away.
So you feel free to give CCP a pat on the back, and a "good job" speech. I don't even play this game anymore, but i want this game to be good when it reaches PS4 2023 (when the PS5 coming out).
I've been waiting on new Heavy Suits and Heavy weapons for a half a year less then you. I don't like what's happened in many builds. After dealing with godmode tanks pre chrome, then having to deal with slightly weaker versions now, I've taken a break from Dust until HAV's are once again playing inside the mortal realm.
I've had to deal with months of having my HMG be ****, then way too powerful, then **** again, then for some reason ground into the ground where an SMG provided better DPS, and enjoyed it staying that way for a few more months before finding out the HMG wasn't even working as intended from the very beginning. Now I get the only other weapon i used turned into a water balloon who's only reliable job is to make the HAV's so damn wet they finally leave for 30 seconds to get a change of clothing.
I dislike many of CCP's practices and what they've currently done throughout my year and a half of playing, and have gotten extremely annoyed and frustrated...but it doesn't change the fact this is one of the worst communities in any game I've ever played. So how about you try and twist that **** into fanboyism.
Edit - Oh yea, and i forgot to mention prior to my FG being nerfed, i was using it for over a year with hit detection problems on the client/server side that was so bad, every shot had a 50% chance of dealing only splash damage, or no damage at all. You aren't the only person who has suffered playing this game, but damn are you delusional if you don't see the community as being a huge part of the problem, and the progress CCP has made since launc, regardless of it's snails pace. |
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
364
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have. Im glad there was a Dev response. But this merc is absolutely correct about this "your decisions matter" bullshit, ive been saying this for a long time, constant re balancing means our decisions mean ****. Every time you have changed my suit role bonus, changed my cpu, nerfed the weapon I picked for my suit, YOU CCP made a decision thst superseded my own, my choice was pointless..
. As for matchmaking the frustrating part about matchmaking is that its never been fixed and patch after patch they tell us it is, and thats why we put up with scotty, fatal errors, hard freezes, news flash ccp when your **** breaks my **** my new **** will have a 4 on it not a 3.
This stuff NEVER gets fixed... RDV are still ******* up all the time, fatal errors are happening more, theres some new crazy stupid lag in the servers everyone knows it, its not framerate drop, terrain terrain terrain same horrible glitches that have been here from the get go, FIX THE DAMN TERRAIN, they say every patch improvements to matchmaking... How? When? I **** you not I was inma server last week with 2 full qsync squads against my team of 0 squads, thats a mistake? 2 stats need to go into the matchmaking algorithm wp per game and kills per game,, try that **** out, its worked for other shooters since THEY EXISTED....
How long are we going to have to deal with rdvs rubber banding? Staying in place after they drop my lav? Glitched links that spawn you underground in green **** on IRON DELTA? Friendly rail tanks shooting my dropship on takeoff to knock me into something? I could go on and on, the point is this game is as full of ****** glitches as it ever was, PLUS you keep changing my choices, damn can we focus on one and get that 100 percent and then move on, not 75 until we change this and then come back blah blah blah
|
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1302
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 04:17:00 -
[84] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have. Im glad there was a Dev response. But this merc is absolutely correct about this "your decisions matter" bullshit, ive been saying this for a long time, constant re balancing means our decisions mean ****. Every time you have changed my suit role bonus, changed my cpu, nerfed the weapon I picked for my suit, YOU CCP made a decision thst superseded my own, my choice was pointless.. . As for matchmaking the frustrating part about matchmaking is that its never been fixed and patch after patch they tell us it is, and thats why we put up with scotty, fatal errors, hard freezes, news flash ccp when your **** breaks my **** my new **** will have a 4 on it not a 3. This stuff NEVER gets fixed... RDV are still ******* up all the time, fatal errors are happening more, theres some new crazy stupid lag in the servers everyone knows it, its not framerate drop, terrain terrain terrain same horrible glitches that have been here from the get go, FIX THE DAMN TERRAIN, they say every patch improvements to matchmaking... How? When? I **** you not I was inma server last week with 2 full qsync squads against my team of 0 squads, thats a mistake? 2 stats need to go into the matchmaking algorithm wp per game and kills per game,, try that **** out, its worked for other shooters since THEY EXISTED.... How long are we going to have to deal with rdvs rubber banding? Staying in place after they drop my lav? Glitched links that spawn you underground in green **** on IRON DELTA? Friendly rail tanks shooting my dropship on takeoff to knock me into something? I could go on and on, the point is this game is as full of ****** glitches as it ever was, PLUS you keep changing my choices, damn can we focus on one and get that 100 percent and then move on, not 75 until we change this and then come back blah blah blah
as if they haven't been fixing stuff non stop due to forum qq for the last year... |
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
364
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 04:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
low genius wrote:INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have. Im glad there was a Dev response. But this merc is absolutely correct about this "your decisions matter" bullshit, ive been saying this for a long time, constant re balancing means our decisions mean ****. Every time you have changed my suit role bonus, changed my cpu, nerfed the weapon I picked for my suit, YOU CCP made a decision thst superseded my own, my choice was pointless.. . As for matchmaking the frustrating part about matchmaking is that its never been fixed and patch after patch they tell us it is, and thats why we put up with scotty, fatal errors, hard freezes, news flash ccp when your **** breaks my **** my new **** will have a 4 on it not a 3. This stuff NEVER gets fixed... RDV are still ******* up all the time, fatal errors are happening more, theres some new crazy stupid lag in the servers everyone knows it, its not framerate drop, terrain terrain terrain same horrible glitches that have been here from the get go, FIX THE DAMN TERRAIN, they say every patch improvements to matchmaking... How? When? I **** you not I was inma server last week with 2 full qsync squads against my team of 0 squads, thats a mistake? 2 stats need to go into the matchmaking algorithm wp per game and kills per game,, try that **** out, its worked for other shooters since THEY EXISTED.... How long are we going to have to deal with rdvs rubber banding? Staying in place after they drop my lav? Glitched links that spawn you underground in green **** on IRON DELTA? Friendly rail tanks shooting my dropship on takeoff to knock me into something? I could go on and on, the point is this game is as full of ****** glitches as it ever was, PLUS you keep changing my choices, damn can we focus on one and get that 100 percent and then move on, not 75 until we change this and then come back blah blah blah as if they haven't been fixing stuff non stop due to forum qq for the last year... Really, name it noob? Cant speak for the sound of sluts, but IDIC has been here for this year you speak of so you tell me what the **** has been fixed? This cute little ccp f u c k boy, whered you get this dude saberwing? Pull him off your sack? |
Bradric Banewolf
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
The Umbra Combine
148
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 04:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Balance, PVE, and redline removal.
"Anybody order chaos?"
|
Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 04:59:00 -
[87] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:low genius wrote:INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have. Im glad there was a Dev response. But this merc is absolutely correct about this "your decisions matter" bullshit, ive been saying this for a long time, constant re balancing means our decisions mean ****. Every time you have changed my suit role bonus, changed my cpu, nerfed the weapon I picked for my suit, YOU CCP made a decision thst superseded my own, my choice was pointless.. . As for matchmaking the frustrating part about matchmaking is that its never been fixed and patch after patch they tell us it is, and thats why we put up with scotty, fatal errors, hard freezes, news flash ccp when your **** breaks my **** my new **** will have a 4 on it not a 3. This stuff NEVER gets fixed... RDV are still ******* up all the time, fatal errors are happening more, theres some new crazy stupid lag in the servers everyone knows it, its not framerate drop, terrain terrain terrain same horrible glitches that have been here from the get go, FIX THE DAMN TERRAIN, they say every patch improvements to matchmaking... How? When? I **** you not I was inma server last week with 2 full qsync squads against my team of 0 squads, thats a mistake? 2 stats need to go into the matchmaking algorithm wp per game and kills per game,, try that **** out, its worked for other shooters since THEY EXISTED.... How long are we going to have to deal with rdvs rubber banding? Staying in place after they drop my lav? Glitched links that spawn you underground in green **** on IRON DELTA? Friendly rail tanks shooting my dropship on takeoff to knock me into something? I could go on and on, the point is this game is as full of ****** glitches as it ever was, PLUS you keep changing my choices, damn can we focus on one and get that 100 percent and then move on, not 75 until we change this and then come back blah blah blah as if they haven't been fixing stuff non stop due to forum qq for the last year... Really, name it noob? Cant speak for the sound of sluts, but IDIC has been here for this year you speak of so you tell me what the **** has been fixed? This cute little ccp f u c k boy, whered you get this dude saberwing? Pull him off your sack?
Marvin Gaye would say you need sexual healing |
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
367
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:03:00 -
[88] - Quote
Marvin was the man and hed be right....  |
Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
540
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Marvin was the man and hed be right....
Weren't you in another thread asking why you weren't able to use an OB after getting 2500 WPs?
I don't think you've been around long enough to know of anything thats been fixed in this game. |
Bradric Banewolf
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
The Umbra Combine
148
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:23:00 -
[90] - Quote
I'm sorry, but something about the rail rifle should've screamed OP?! Most of the games mega powerful weapons are short range, long range but low rate of fire, or both. The rail is everything good, and nothing bad.
How does one manage to keep making weapons that they have to nerf? Every single new weapon has to be nerfed in this game?! You mean to tell me that hasn't been figured out yet? I call bs! I swear if the next new weapon is OP after all these post about the rr and cr I'm throwing in the towel! You can't keep giving players the "I win button" in hopes that proto bears don't notice and exploit it. It doesn't help new players stay. It gets them stomped worst!
My frustration is with them saying "use tactics and strategy", but we all know that it won't work on elite corps because they'll just rr you to death! Or get 6 blaster tanks, and camp the only point you have lol! Yes I'm sure by now, before someone plays captain obvious, that you know that I know how to counter this bs. But at what cost? You've seen the battles with one squad going absolutely loco, but still loosing because their blues gave up when they saw proto suits?! 6 guys got 1500+ wp's a piece while the other 9 are below 400?! Opposite team has a full house with over 1,000 wp's a piece, but matchmaking is better right? Whole team of ancient exiles, outer heaven, and teamplayers vs. A full team of players with less than 5 mil sp is not even close to fair?!
Not gone start on tanks because if you don't see it by now you're blind! For the sake of argument let's all agree that things aren't going exactly as CCP planned, but since were all still here. That means we are willing to wait for it to get better. Emphasis on "better" CCP. I started back using my shotgun because I'm sick of being outgunned by rr and cr in every engagement. I don't like them enough to spec into em solid. Sorry?! And I like how the shotgun dispatches protos making all that strafing to dodge bullets like the matrix irrelevant! BANG! One shot and I'm hacking the point! No rail chewing through 700 armor and 200 shield in .005 seconds. I don't have time to play bully vs midget with the ridiculous range of that weapon. And the thought of how much that proto suit cost when my shotgun opens them up like a can of tuna is satisfying as hell!!! Fotm didn't save you that time lol!
Now I'm ranting, but CCP please were rooting for you!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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McFurious
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
646
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:33:00 -
[91] - Quote
^ He's got a point.
It isn't fair but CCP hasn't gotten around to SP-based matchmaking. We'll have to wait and see what CCP Rogue's plans are going forward.
In the meantime, what new players need to do is join a corp. Most of the big corps have public chat channels. Join chat, start squadding up, and if you're good they might let you join. Even if you don't get to join it's still better than soloing.
Half Irish. Often angry.
Closed Beta Masshole
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Rinzler XVIII
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
121
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 07:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
Duran Lex wrote: /sigh
This is one of the worst communities I've ever seen in any game.
The only thing that comes to mind for comparison is the Asura, Bakasura.
No matter what it receives, it still wants more to cram into it's face. Nothing ever satiates it.
CCP can continue to keep adding content, and it's not good enough. More needs to be added NAOW.
CCP can try to fix matchmaking, and then while it's slightly better then before...no, it then claims matchmaking is as bad as it was in closed beta and nothings changed.
CCP can attempt to provide more communication then they previously did, succeed at it...then get thrashed by the forums saying they are never around and ignoring us.
CCP can respond to a few threads about a specific topic, but it's not good enough, they have to respond to EVERY thread and repeat the same thing over and over again just to fill it's stomach.
I would actually be satisfied if CCP just canned the entire game. Many of you don't deserve to play any game with your unquenchable thirsts and self entitled attitudes.
CCP may have dug the hole they are currently in, but this community keeps piling on dirt to make sure it stays that way.
/sigh
This is one of the most unpolished games I've ever played so it isn't surprising that the forums have alot more complaints about the game than other game forums out there ! That isn't a community issue that's a development issue .. no mistakes no QQ it really is that simple !
What have we had since Jan 2013 ? What were we promised or shown would be in the game by now ? No racial parity, no PVE, no player Market, no meaningful DUST-Eve link .. what about bubble shields ? There was a DEV Blog on them and we still don't have them 6 months later !
Telling a starving man to stop asking for food as he ate 2 weeks ago isn't the same as telling a man who has just eaten a 10 course meal to stop asking for food.
Fixing something and making it slightly better than before aren't the same thing. If I told you I was going to fix a gas leak and then came back to you saying 'well I have made it slightly better than before as it isn't leaking as much' .. you wouldn't say that I had fixed it and would tell me to 'go back and finish the job properly'.
CCP barely used to communicate with us at all so it isn't much of an achievement to improve on that.
I did clarify that no one expects DEVs to respond to every thread but adding something similar to the dev post sign to be like a tick to show that a dev has looked at the thread is all thats needed so players know that the devs are actively checking the forums because right now we only have their word for it.
The community would like a game they play to succeed and be balanced and fun .. what is the problem with that ?
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ONE-I-BANDIT
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
14
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Posted - 2014.02.26 08:45:00 -
[93] - Quote
If you cant keep an promise. Then come out and say you cant keep that promise this way people will not cont. to look for that promise and move on.
Wait till they get al load of me
Proto Logi /Big Bad Tanker
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
374
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 09:40:00 -
[94] - Quote
Duran Lex wrote:INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Marvin was the man and hed be right.... Weren't you in another thread asking why you weren't able to use an OB after getting 2500 WPs? I don't think you've been around long enough to know of anything thats been fixed in this game.
37 mil sp, been here since March its long enough, besides my gun speaks for what I have the right to say, and your welcome to answer for him then, enlighten us all as to what has been fixed |
Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
2389
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 09:41:00 -
[95] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Duran Lex wrote:INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Marvin was the man and hed be right.... Weren't you in another thread asking why you weren't able to use an OB after getting 2500 WPs? I don't think you've been around long enough to know of anything thats been fixed in this game. 37 mil sp, been here since March its long enough, besides my gun speaks for what I have the right to say
Loser. I been begging dis dude to come shoot for me for 2 months now. 
CEO of FA
B3RT>PFBHz>TP>IMP>FA
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
374
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 09:43:00 -
[96] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Duran Lex wrote:INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Marvin was the man and hed be right.... Weren't you in another thread asking why you weren't able to use an OB after getting 2500 WPs? I don't think you've been around long enough to know of anything thats been fixed in this game. 37 mil sp, been here since March its long enough, besides my gun speaks for what I have the right to say Loser. I been begging dis dude to come shoot for me for 2 months now.
Im also lazy?  |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13201
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 11:47:00 -
[97] - Quote
Rinzler XVIII wrote: The OP;
*Cracks neck a bit. Warning wall of text was constructed on sheep jumping fences.
Sorry been off the forums lately and didn't get to this sooner and lack of sleep right now.
As for what the CPM exactly does when it comes to communism is to take a tuning fork to the community and find the tone of it. Striking the fork in one place can leave a sour note, striking it in others gives it a sweet note. It is then the CPM"s responsibility to find out why and that is why some of the more effective cpm pushes are based on the subjects where it has been struck everywhere near and far.
True we do cherry pick some voices but the point about the voices we generally pick is they're the voices that quite a bit of the community IS already listening too. Much so more those who never speak cannot be represented as easily; I still run into players who don't know what a CPM is. Regardless; In this echo chamber its pretty amazing how often you get a chorus and how infrequent individual voices are. There are plenty of variety of tones but once you split the hairs they're hard to distinguish anymore.
Which leads to the first unfairness; CPM are players too, and by that extension, Human. We're entitled to our own opinions, ideas thoughts and the like. Why do you think I got rather upset that my Dust 2.0 project got onto CCP's radar in a big way? (thanks alot twitter verse) It's because I really didn't want them to see it that early in the process, a project that may just fall out because I simply do not have the time these days. It was eventually going to wind up on their radar but it got there far too prematurely for my liking; and now I have to deal with it with CCP. As for our own opinions there are times to raise them up as your own and honestly speak for oneself to ccp about how you feel about said subject; and there is time where you need to swallow your own pride and admit.
The other unfairness of the whole deals is the simple fact as much as the CPM is held to a NDA so are the Developers are required to adhere to that NDA as well; and after months and months of doing this behind closed doors the NDA's purpose becomes rather clear in its use. One wrong message can burn the entire community to cinders. While there have been mistakes in the past just imagine how much worse they could have been had they been blathered out at first thought of the developers? The only difference between CPM NDA and Dev NDA is their loop on permissible lifts are much shorter than the CPMs (and is almost always reliant on the developers making the first move anyways)
As for the auto-cracity comments, I can recall about 13 incidents (the most recent of which was yesterday) where the CPM pissed off or hurt, or agitated CCP in some form shape or manner that made members of the company rather uncomfortable. A couple of them have been made public if you been keeping up. If you think we're a bunch of yes men then you're sorely mistaken; currently we're more of a 'we told you so' sort of folks though there are plenty of times CPM didn't see it coming (commonly attributed processing quite a bit of information all at once) or CCP listened and responded with the positive change.
As for CCP employees and the mistakes and successes they're having; being able to talk with them near weekly; pick their brains and understand how all the madness works makes the CPM feel sorry for the most likely to be targets of community ire. Some employees will deserve it; some really don't. Case in point the last 5 paragraphs involves a single hard working developer footwork.
As for the decisions matter argument; most other people in the new eden imply it to the things you do outside your character's shields. A wrong post on the forums, a spat on IRC, a friend request on face book leading to wars, year long grudges, and corp heists.
And if you're going to bring real world thinking into this. Eve is in a constant flux of constant technological developments. Your plasma rifle magnetic frequency was found out and fully countered with a simple algorithm change in the shielding and armor resonance. Technology kill off rate in new eden is vastly astounding and highly competitive. You don't take a WW2 Sherman and pit it against a modern Abrams. Similar in respects you don't take a Circa 2004 eve online battleship against a 2014 version either (and this is just by plain raw stats the old battleships would be nearly 40:1 power ratio meaning you would need nearly 40 to sink a current one; implied power gains are astronomical.) So what may be a totally awesome Rail Rifle today someone is already out there developing a counter to kill it's effectiveness and the Rail Rifle manufacturer wants to retain its dominance in selling that weapon and will have to make sacrifices and adjustments to keep on par with everyone else. I mean can you imagine that less than two years ago personal shielding on infantry didn't exist? Not even on the tanks?
As for balance, this game WILL never achieve 'perfect' balance. It's not in its nature to ever too. Also most unfortunately Marketing and players proven time after time after time again. A new gun is ALWAYS more preferable to balance; and you know what is worse about that? A new gun can be voted with a wallet waving and throwing money at the computer screen; perfect balance is usually voted by turning around and walking out the door. Which is sad because thats how really crappy games are hot sellers while truly great games are in bargain bins and the studio that made them is completely empty.
Also I already made it known I am totally against respecs (as a service) until a long list of conditions are met; but I am still pushing for one in 1.8.
I have an open door policy and I am sorry if I rejected your skype requests been getting trolled there lately. Twitter and eve mail or the forums are some of the better places to find me.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13201
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 11:55:00 -
[98] - Quote
In addium of balance, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325209&find=unread
Third time this year these ships have been altered and they're among the FIRST ships brought into the game when it launched and I would probably say this is the 20th time they been balanced AGAIN.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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ONE-I-BANDIT
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 12:02:00 -
[99] - Quote
So its like an spin the wheel kinda deal for all the items well thats good to know
alway have to be on your toes
Wait till they get al load of me
Proto Logi /Big Bad Tanker
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13202
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 14:46:00 -
[100] - Quote
ONE-I-BANDIT wrote:So its like an spin the wheel kinda deal for all the items well thats good to know
alway have to be on your toes
I hate the blind side spins from either side, for the record on blindsiding CCP is winning that score easily.
CPM (as a whole) has accurately guessed most of the community reactions.
Its CCP doing most of the wrench throwing.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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RKKR
The Southern Legion
760
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:08:00 -
[101] - Quote
This is how I read the blue-tagged post:
- CCP reads the forums but don't act on the tuff they read.
- CCP rationalizes that it's OK to have crap communication on the official forums (which everyone can see at a given time) because they got other lines of communication.
(LOL you still have to think about respecs after all this time? I hope you guys are discussing a whole complete new system because this is just getting whack).
- CCP is accountable...but we had to hire a new guy first. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1680
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:22:00 -
[102] - Quote
RKKR wrote:This is how I read the blue-tagged post:
- CCP reads the forums but don't act on the tuff they read.
- CCP rationalizes that it's OK to have crap communication on the official forums (which everyone can see at a given time) because they got other lines of communication.
(LOL you still have to think about respecs after all this time? I hope you guys are discussing a whole complete new system because this is just getting whack).
- CCP is accountable...but we had to hire a new guy first.
This is bitter, true, but is also absolutely fair. +1 RKKR.
I support SP rollover.
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steadyhand amarr
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
2379
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:27:00 -
[103] - Quote
ONE-I-BANDIT wrote:So its like an spin the wheel kinda deal for all the items well thats good to know
alway have to be on your toes
Tbh i would ok with that if it was expected for and promoted part of the game play as it would encourage people to constantly review their fittings.
It is idea that i think should be looked into. And could even have fluff behind.
Fresh off the line new improved amour plates to deal with those pesky amour plates.
Following month
Brick tanks getting you down try out are new line of explosive mass drivers :-P
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Dalmont Legrand
277
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:34:00 -
[104] - Quote
I got my eyes on you... humanz.
The best is yet to come
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BattleCry1791
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
435
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:42:00 -
[105] - Quote
Hey Rinzler, nice post
A couple of things regarding this thread.
1) Yes, it's the Dropsuits that we need the respec for. I'll meet you half way CCP. You want us to not spec out of weapons to punish the FOTM crowd after 1.7. That's cool. But you are going to invalidate my playstyle on my main account with this patch. I spec'd into min logi for the hack speed. I run solo a lot, so I carry scanners, drop links, and hives. But thanks to your changes to the suits, the min logi suit does nothing for me. And that's not the only instance. There's all kinds of players out there that are going to experience this problem.
If I had known you were changing the racial bonuses, then I would have made a different choice. But you didn't tell me and the rest of the player base did you? This isn't a "tweak" or a "minor change", you're making massive wide sweeping changes to the game. Which you'll likely screw up based on historical evidence. Which leads me to my next point.
2) To the rest of the community...yes, we have massive problems with hit detection, frames, getting stuck on 3 inch protrusions from the ground...there are core game mechanics that are simply broken (like minute side strafing). But I offer this;
We still won't have all the content after this patch. Pilot and tanker dropsuits, installations, other heavy guns, the remaining racial vehicles...there;s a lot left. You all know, just as well as I do, that every time they release new material they're going to screw something up. So why slowly remove the band-aid. Let's just rip it off. GIVE US EVERYTHING CCP. It doesn't matter how broken it is, because by breaking it off piecemeal you keep hosing the balance to the game. So let's just get everything out there.
THEN you fully respec. Go 60 days (and during this phase you create a WP based matchmaking system). Do ninja tweaks, then comes the BIG.FAT.PATCH (Sin City anyone?), one last respec and then it's off to mechanics now that all the content is out. Then it's off to PVE land and a player market. By Christmas you have a fully released game.
It would take a total of 4 or 5 months to do this if you put your nose to the grindstone. With the current pace it will be over a year.
However, I know this won't happen. Why? Because it's the best way to go. Go ahead and ignore me and those that follow the same gaming philosophy that I do. Zipper did this quite well. Anything that we ever supported...they went running and screaming from in the opposite direction as fast as they could. Go ahead and hold your breath for that MAG 2 release date. Will never happen unless I win the lottery.
I don't make my assertions based on my personal wants or needs, never, have, I just want what's best for the playerbase. What's best for the playerbase is what's best for the game. Best for the playerbase is what's best for the game because it means more players. More players means MOAR AURUM. Got that CCP? You want to get the cash flow going, you respec this time round. You rip off the band aid, and it will happen. Go at this half-assed like you have been and you will not grow.
They'd ban me, but I'm too funny and more importantly, I'm right.
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
380
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:46:00 -
[106] - Quote
While I am sure that most of what IWS said is true the problem is that the mentality of ccp and some cpm members is to accept the practices used in EVE, we will at some point achieve racial parity no? And when we have all the suits and all the main weapons how can we not then say ok balance this and then leave it alone? Is that to much to ask? No, and until then when you make huge changes give an sp refund......
Thats really not asking that much.. If true balance ever exists then FOTM wont.... And thats the deal..... Either way our choices dont matter when your changing SUIT ROLE BONUSES, I mean damn those are essential parts of why we choose a suit or weapon.... So if ccp wants to balance all weapon stats against each other, and not against cry babys thats one thing, but if they introduce 5 new suits, and change the weapons, and change role bonuses, and add new weapons, then yes we needmto demand it, I think we have done a good job this time around, though as a community we havent demanded it enough in the past.....
Relying to much on the cpm or defering to the traditions of eve as SOME cpm members like to do. F u c k eve this is dust, we aint flying ships in space we are shooters and unlike eve very small changes here make a big deal. Our skill is in our thumbs and our reflexes and its real and tangible skill in eve its all spreadsheets and numbers and your shooting skill means d I c k ? Ya...... |
Bradric Banewolf
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
The Umbra Combine
150
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 16:00:00 -
[107] - Quote
Ok. Giving CCP a clean slate. Yep, I'm gonna personally let CCP off the hook because they do atleast acknowledge that they do have to fix things. I understand some of these things sneaking up on them. OP weapons don't get a pass though. Thet need to stop that?! Focus more on it being unique and effective against a certain aspect of the game. Not everything it touchs turns to dust?! No more OP weapons, and I'll let that ride ok CCP.
The tanks can be stopped to be fair, but they also don't have weaknesses like the rail rifle. Whole teams are hitting them with the whole of their AV capabilities just to watch it ride off to the redline. Only to come back 30 seconds later ready to go! So lets just say you didn't see that coming. Now that we've thoroughly explained the obvious, I'm sure CCP is all over it!
Matchmaking is apparently tough. If it wasn't CCP would have it in the bag already. So lets just say it's a work in progress, and they need more time to work out kinks. In another 6 months can we see some sort of balance to some degree? Great!
Can't speak for everyone else, but I'm giving CCP til the end of the year, and 2.0 to make this much better. Is that fair?
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13203
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 16:38:00 -
[108] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:While I am sure that most of what IWS said is true the problem is that the mentality of ccp and some cpm members is to accept the practices used in EVE, we will at some point achieve racial parity no? And when we have all the suits and all the main weapons how can we not then say ok balance this and then leave it alone? Is that to much to ask? No, and until then when you make huge changes give an sp refund......
Thats really not asking that much.. If true balance ever exists then FOTM wont.... And thats the deal..... Either way our choices dont matter when your changing SUIT ROLE BONUSES, I mean damn those are essential parts of why we choose a suit or weapon.... So if ccp wants to balance all weapon stats against each other, and not against cry babys thats one thing, but if they introduce 5 new suits, and change the weapons, and change role bonuses, and add new weapons, then yes we needmto demand it, I think we have done a good job this time around, though as a community we havent demanded it enough in the past.....
Relying to much on the cpm or defering to the traditions of eve as SOME cpm members like to do. F u c k eve this is dust, we aint flying ships in space we are shooters and unlike eve very small changes here make a big deal. Our skill is in our thumbs and our reflexes and its real and tangible skill in eve its all spreadsheets and numbers and your shooting skill means d I c k ? Ya......
possible patch notes wrote:
CARACAL:
+0.01 inertia
Small change leads to quite a bit of meta in eve as they do in dust.
Also piloting in pvp small scale is typically the height of hand eye mind coordination in eve. True you may not need reliance on your ability to point and click. But you do need excessive reliance on being able to know your own ship's abilities are and what the target list and what the potential abilities are, as well as extra spacial awareness being most useful Like who just popped in local and the like. This is where spreadsheets begin to fail in eve. I mean I watched a video where numerically two ishtar cruisers shouldn't have done what they did but they did anyways taking on a fleet much larger than themselves and winning despite being in quarter hull.
I mean numerically a rookie ship has no chance against a missile cruiser right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3i2AftCl-o
The reason why there is such a reliance on eve. is because dust 514 IS eve, its a special client of eve and it in the same universe as eve.
What sense would it make if amarrians used bullets? Minmatar used photon cannons? Gallente using deflector dish to solve their plot holes? Or Caldari being generous?
There is a basis for which to deflect off of the parent universe for on many grounds in terms of both numbers and game design. Knowing what works well in an FPS and what doesn't should not require eve online though.
Ture balance will never be achieved in dust because of the constantly changing meta, measuring the turn around time on FOTM cycling unadulterated is about 3 months in Dust 514. That means without patches interfering with the numbers involved it takes the player base to counter the FOTM and adopt it widely.
Also true balance is a complete falsehood from what I have seen so far in every other game. In every true balance game I ever seen it consistently boiled down to one number and
DPS.
Not HP.
Not speed.
DPS and the application or Insurance of
Rather horrible concept to be honest where everyone is a glass cannon but who cares? your dps is so freakishly high that your attacks will chew through their defenses before they can respond.
TTK in dust low? At least I can survive a half of a magazine of a rail rifle attempted hits and still kill the guy that shotting me.
Other 'perfect balance' games its death on sight if you're statistically inferior. There is no out skilling, there is no out thinking there is really no outplaying. Because in a perfect balance games you might as well delete all numbers.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
290
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Posted - 2014.02.26 16:43:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
A long winded say of saying 'we're still talking without any real substance'.
Give us blogs, data sheets, and an actual Q&A session this new 'process' and maybe you'll get more credit. Until then, I'm seeing nothing to get my hopes up over, just more rhetoric. |
SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
7
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Posted - 2014.02.27 01:16:00 -
[110] - Quote
All I am seeing at this point is bltch, bltch, bltch, whine, whine, whine. Can the Devs lock this already.
The skills come with time, teamwork is what we want.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
7644
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Posted - 2014.02.27 01:29:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:
The players just don't get an opportunity to get their voices heard which is why I hate the CPMs and their roles within the community. They basically give CCP an excuse to not talk to the players directly and instead converse with people they cherry picked to be our voices and often alot of player concerns are overlooked or not fought for strongly enough because certain CPMs may not feel the same way as the community.
We desperately need better lines of communication between the players and the DEVs, look at the respec discussion thread .. why hasn't a DEV come out and said we are dragging our feet about giving an infantry respec because of X Y Z or we aren't giving one because of X Y Z so the players and DEVs can actually talk it through and make sure if it was given that it was done properley ? The player base are the real testers of this game so why do CCP ignore us and not engage with us ?
-Right now there is no-one actively holding CCP to account or making them question how they are doing things and personally I feel that they are getting let off way to lightly. This game has fantastic potential, if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't still be playing this game which is why when I see the same mistakes being repeated and still people are praising them it's extremely disappointing because no one prominent is actively criticising them for all the bad things that they've done.
Hi Rinzler. Let me address some of your points - - Players do get heard. We patrol our forums continuously (even if every thread doesn't necessarily have a response!) What is difficult to understand on the flip side is the sheer level of noise out there - and that's why the CPM serve as a fantastic barometer for overall Community temperature. - There are several lines of communication between players and Developers - to say otherwise is simply not true. Many of us go out of our way to interact with players across numerous channels. I've recently set up the in-game DevHangout channel (and frequent it several times per week), spend time in the #DUST514 IRC, and personally reply to almost every Facebook message to the DUST 514 page. Many of us even use our personal Twitter/social media accounts to interact with players. It's important to remember that not everyone has the thick skin required to interact with players, but those of us that do really enjoy it. On the topic of respecs, I have mentioned in numerous threads that a decision has not yet been reached and that I'll provide you with an update when I know more. For the record - the CPM are also pushing on this. :) - We are absolutely holding ourselves accountable and question everything we are doing. The arrival of CCP Rouge has completely revamped our Development Process and I've never felt more confident in the future of DUST (even though I've only been here for about 6 months!). To say that we do not face criticism is again not only untrue but also unfair, because the Developers that take the time to interact with players face more than their fair share every day. I hope that answers some of the questions you have.
Yeah we are ass holes.
But we luv ya.
"War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine."
- Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
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Seeth Mensch
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
143
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Posted - 2014.02.27 01:39:00 -
[112] - Quote
BattleCry1791 wrote:Hey Rinzler, nice post
A couple of things regarding this thread.
1) Yes, it's the Dropsuits that we need the respec for. I'll meet you half way CCP. You want us to not spec out of weapons to punish the FOTM crowd after 1.7. That's cool. But you are going to invalidate my playstyle on my main account with this patch. I spec'd into min logi for the hack speed. I run solo a lot, so I carry scanners, drop links, and hives. But thanks to your changes to the suits, the min logi suit does nothing for me. And that's not the only instance. There's all kinds of players out there that are going to experience this problem.
If I had known you were changing the racial bonuses, then I would have made a different choice. But you didn't tell me and the rest of the player base did you? This isn't a "tweak" or a "minor change", you're making massive wide sweeping changes to the game. Which you'll likely screw up based on historical evidence. Which leads me to my next point.
2) To the rest of the community...yes, we have massive problems with hit detection, frames, getting stuck on 3 inch protrusions from the ground...there are core game mechanics that are simply broken (like minute side strafing). But I offer this;
We still won't have all the content after this patch. Pilot and tanker dropsuits, installations, other heavy guns, the remaining racial vehicles...there;s a lot left. You all know, just as well as I do, that every time they release new material they're going to screw something up. So why slowly remove the band-aid. Let's just rip it off. GIVE US EVERYTHING CCP. It doesn't matter how broken it is, because by breaking it off piecemeal you keep hosing the balance to the game. So let's just get everything out there.
THEN you fully respec. Go 60 days (and during this phase you create a WP based matchmaking system). Do ninja tweaks, then comes the BIG.FAT.PATCH (Sin City anyone?), one last respec and then it's off to mechanics now that all the content is out. Then it's off to PVE land and a player market. By Christmas you have a fully released game.
It would take a total of 4 or 5 months to do this if you put your nose to the grindstone. With the current pace it will be over a year.
However, I know this won't happen. Why? Because it's the best way to go. Go ahead and ignore me and those that follow the same gaming philosophy that I do. Zipper did this quite well. Anything that we ever supported...they went running and screaming from in the opposite direction as fast as they could. Go ahead and hold your breath for that MAG 2 release date. Will never happen unless I win the lottery.
I don't make my assertions based on my personal wants or needs, never, have, I just want what's best for the playerbase. What's best for the playerbase is what's best for the game. Best for the playerbase is what's best for the game because it means more players. More players means MOAR AURUM. Got that CCP? You want to get the cash flow going, you respec this time round. You rip off the band aid, and it will happen. Go at this half-assed like you have been and you will not grow.
It's a lot, but worth quoting for being a good idea.
GIVE IT TO ME! The whole shebang. Then do the fixes. It's not elegant, but neither is dragging this along. I wanna love this game, but it's like a girlfriend that you gotta apologize for...it's never quite good enough!
Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
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