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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
8951
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Posted - 2014.02.08 08:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
Not all hybrid weapons, only hybrid-railguns, hybrid-blaster/plasma weapons are Gallente.
The initially proposed ROF bonus was for all assaults, not a Caldari specific racial bonus. It would have been useless for many weapons, so a PG/CPU reduction bonus is better overall (lets you save PG/CPU for more damage mods, etc).
As for making that ROF bonus a Caldari racial bonus, sounds pretty OP; perhaps the state of the RR after the nerf may convince me it will be balanced, but not other bonus increases DPS in such a direct way. The Minmatar and Amarr bonuses for example would only allow you to keep shooting for a longer period of time (before reloading or overheating).
The other racial suit perks directly address the preferred racial weapon drawbacks (Amarr and Minmatar) or highlight it's key attributes (Gallente)...the Caldari is the outlier. To keep it in line with the other bonuses go with a reduction in spool time and if they are really generous they will add a mild recoil reduction as well.
Spool up time reduction would be great, but would be pretty crappy for the vast majority of sniper rifles; only one light weapon would benefit from it (RR), and some sidearms. If sniper rifles had spool up by default (and more damage or magazine size to make up for it, or something) then I would be in favor of a spool up reduction bonus.
Like I said before, I know the reload bonus on its own is not very attractive, and sucks compared to the others, which is why I think it should be bundled with other bonuses like kick reduction and reserve ammo increase (to cut the need for nanohives), similar to how the Minmatar scout will have both the knife bonus and the hacking bonus.
The Gallente one is the absolute WORST one in my opinion, it only helps the AR, and its nowhere near a useful as a magazine size or heat reduction. Perhaps a 3% per level effective range bonus would be good?... a range doesn't feel very Gallente, but it is covering the same way the Amarr and Minmatar bonus are covering weaknesses, and would also benefit the ion pistol and shotgun.
Perhaps Caldari could get the effective range one (though might be overkill without a base effective range reduction), and the Gallente could get a ROF one. A ROF bonus would make the AR the CQC king among the rifles, like it is meant to be.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Jackof All-Trades
The Black Renaissance
449
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
Well that's ****. How is my plasma cannon to make use of that Gallente bonus?
Just to be clear, I love you Saberwing. But I utterly hate that bonus.
"Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
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Omni-Specialist
/ Focus: Gallente
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
6777
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
Not all hybrid weapons, only hybrid-railguns, hybrid-blaster/plasma weapons are Gallente.
The initially proposed ROF bonus was for all assaults, not a Caldari specific racial bonus. It would have been useless for many weapons, so a PG/CPU reduction bonus is better overall (lets you save PG/CPU for more damage mods, etc).
As for making that ROF bonus a Caldari racial bonus, sounds pretty OP; perhaps the state of the RR after the nerf may convince me it will be balanced, but not other bonus increases DPS in such a direct way. The Minmatar and Amarr bonuses for example would only allow you to keep shooting for a longer period of time (before reloading or overheating).
The other racial suit perks directly address the preferred racial weapon drawbacks (Amarr and Minmatar) or highlight it's key attributes (Gallente)...the Caldari is the outlier. To keep it in line with the other bonuses go with a reduction in spool time and if they are really generous they will add a mild recoil reduction as well. Spool up time reduction would be great, but would be pretty crappy for the vast majority of sniper rifles; only one light weapon would benefit from it (RR), and some sidearms. If sniper rifles had spool up by default (and more damage or magazine size to make up for it, or something) then I would be in favor of a spool up reduction bonus.
If spool up times actually were meaningfully long....and currently they are not.... this spool bonus would be worth it, otherwise it just takes an already potent gun mitigating the only minor drawback of the fire arm.
Personally I think an increase to rail rifle spool is necessary when balancing the gun against all others.
"Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
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0000 00096
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jackof All-Trades wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too. Well that's ****. How is my plasma cannon to make use of that Gallente bonus? Just to be clear, I love you Saberwing. But I utterly hate that bonus.
the dispersion and kick already have a skill attributed to them. How about 5% to range? |
Slen Kaleth
BlackWater Liquidations
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
96
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
Swap Gallente Assault and Caldari Assault Bonus. Then make Caldari bonus when ADS.
Reason, Gallente with AR would be up close and difficult to hide/get away when out of ammo so rapid reload would fit more into the role of medium to CQC that the AR is suppose to be.
For Caldari, RR is a long range weapon so less kick when ADS allows for more percise shots. Fits more into the long range role of the RR.
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McFurious
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
612
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:22:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mad Syringe wrote:As a dedicated Masshole, I don't like the minmatar bonuses.
It will only lead to explosive spam, which in the end will get the MD and Flaylock nerfed again. We don't need that!
I'd rather have something like a ammo pool buff, instead of a clip buff (seriously, you want a 11 shot Freedom MD?).
The MD might be ok, after the rifle nerf that is coming with 1.8. I'd increase the clip size of all MD's to 8, but not 11...
Endless (assault) MD spam without reload interruption will make the rifle users cry for nerf again.
Same with the flaylock, 7-8 rockets per cllip, will make it the perfect explosions spam weapon... please don't do that...
Also the MD will be severely underpowered for the native user, the logi!
Cheers
Mad
Gonna have to agree with this. When MD was FOTM it was unbearable for everyone and lead to unnecessary nerfs. I don't want to see either happen again.
You can increase the clip size to 8 or 10 for assaults or just leave them as is but the bonus should be for the ammo pool which the MD desperately needs.
Half Irish. Often angry.
Closed Beta Masshole
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Oswald Rehnquist
1224
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
McFurious wrote:
Gonna have to agree with this. When MD was FOTM it was unbearable for everyone and lead to unnecessary nerfs. I don't want to see either happen again.
You can increase the clip size to 8 or 10 for assaults or just leave them as is but the bonus should be for the ammo pool which the MD desperately needs.
This is just a sustained dps for the md, its current issue is that its the time it takes to take out a hostile is like 2 to 3 shots in which case any rifle can take you down if they have a direct line.
Below 28 dB
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
697
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
As much as i would love a 8 shot flaylock, i'm starting to agree(somewhat)
Keep the current bonuses, but ready up backup bonuses to be hotfixed in 1 week after patch day.
If you can't do that, then hold off on rewriting things until we hear the new weapon stats- hell, flaylocks might get damage of 250 direct/68 splash, with 3m splash range.
If that happened i would keep current bonus- but if things like Md stays as same splash damage over full splash range, then lose it(these are examples)
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
Selling SP: 10k SP per 100k ISK.
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Foo Fighting
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
59
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
Caldari Assault bonus is a joke surely!
For a long range suit dispersion, kick, zoom, scan range or movement speed are relavent not reload speed. Think again please. |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
888
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
The caldari bonus is garbage as everyone has said, but the overall assault bonus is also garbage.
As it is now even a ScR would only get 5pg 20 cpu discounted so thats not even a free module(like the ROF wouldve been a free damage mod), its simply the ability to swap an enhanced module for a complex.
If proto weapons have their fitting requirements changed and raised then so be it however.
Probably the ROF bonus was wayyy better but for now its looking like caldaris getting the mega shaft and minmatars will be either useless or WAY OP.
How to get likes: post QQ reply to every thread where a PC corps players post claiming they only win cus "FOTM"
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Neo Rinzler
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:really? so according to you, 15%(tree) is equal to 25%(suit)? a 66% increase is the same as 0%?
You have the slowest reload. you should be happy they're giving your FOTM crutch something to make up for it's only weakness in cqc(longest reload of any rifle) that even stacks with it's tree skill.
3.2 seconds for a reload. tree skill(5) puts that to 2.72
add the new skill to that(which, with current mechanics means taking the new base of 2.72 and then multiplying by .75) and you get 2.04 seconds spent reloading. .04 seconds slower than the scrambler rifle, which, for reference is the fastest rifle reload.
so you go from dead worst to imperceptibly slower than the absolute best in class.
so, you'll have enough time to charge and put 3 bullets into someone with just the tree skill.
and it even works for sniper rifles.
7.7 bullets per second. .68 seconds .25 second charge. .43 of shooting or 3.3 bullets. standard type rifle, more from an assault.
EDIT: MATH DROPPED!
2.04 seconds reloading compared to 3.2 seconds ... when it takes my shields longer than 3.2 seconds to regen ...
Reload bonus on long range weapons is a Non Issue and you are trying to flog a dead horse as this bonus is NOT staying .. no way jose ..
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
70
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:04:00 -
[72] - Quote
Like many I like to think of the MD as a support weapon. That means you use it without line of sight, or from second row past the frontline guys. The Minmatar assault bonus is only good for roof spammers. Which is pathetic.
The Commando already gets the good Minmatar bonus (damage buff) so find something less spam intensive for the Assault plz...
cheers
Mad |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
70
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's not the native user, it was just addopted 
Well, however you look at it, the MD is the perfect weapon for the guys in the second row! So making it a spam weapon for Assault scrubs will get it nerfed to oblivion again!
The MD needs careful adjustments, to get it on par with the rifles, but not OP!
I posted a possible modification (no short term solution) in this thread:
A Mass Driver secondary effect.
which would help the MD to become a versatile tool for the support logis...
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MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
267
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:31:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
Would there be any thoughts ever of playing with say +10% armor repairer efficacy on gallente assault?
It would fit their close quarters doctrine really well and be in line with how the race functions in eve. A dual repper triple plate bild could have something like 550+ hp and 18hp/s which could make running around with a shotgun useful on a non-scout.
The way I see assaults is that they should be the most self-sufficient low equipment killers out there, either by being bullet hoses like the minmatar and amarr (which are perfect with these bonuses) or by virtue of being able to play dust like its a cover shooter (how the gallente and caldari should work).
In addition every level of the dropsuit skill should make every suit tied to it tangibly better at what they want to be doing. In the case of scouts it's currently being hard to detect and either gathering information or doing some damage, in the case of future logis its making their equipment function better, in the case of heavies its Nanking them take less damage. For assaults it should be about keeping them in the fight either through more shots, or making them very capable of hit and recover. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4428
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:32:00 -
[75] - Quote
So why exactly is the Caldari bonus something that's likely to only be moderately useful in CQC and mostly useless at long range, while the Gallente bonus is one which makes their suits more effective at longer ranges?
It would be beneficial to swap the bonuses AND to give the Gallente an additional (small) bonus to help them in CQC along with the reload bonus. |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1875
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:32:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
Ok, the Assault Bonuses are much better, while I don't necessarily agree with tailoring them to the races weapons (yet), they are pretty good, however the caldari do seem a little gimped. The 2 big ones will be gallante and amarr, unless you plan to replace the operation skill and REMOVE the sharpshooter, its gonna end up wherevthe AR can do long range again.
As for amarr I have made it perfectly I do not agree with the bonus before, however if ScR users insist upon something like this, make a bonus to cooldown as opposed build-up, reducing build-up means they can f7re for lkng periods of time. Something the ScR is not meant to allow.
As for logistics I still don't agree with them and have provided alternative solutions.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Necandi Brasil
DUST BRASIL S.A
Covert Intervention
725
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Necandi Brasil wrote:Saberwing, I know it's a long way of... but how long until we see epic P2Pmarket, 48 player battles ?
I'm getting excited with DUST again this year! Both of these have been repeatedly mentioned as things we want to do. Particularly in the case of the Secondary Market we want to make sure that we get it right. While I can't give you an ETA, please know that it's something that is definitely a priority.
Saberwing,
If you guys need help from the community, don't hesitate to ask for it.... Many good ideas around.
Thank you for your answer ! I'm glad to see Dev's interacting so close with us. 
Tanks 514! Cheap, fast, Indestructible and you see tankers telling it's balanced...
Just makes you want to quit this BS
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1875
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mad Syringe wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's not the native user, it was just addopted Well, however you look at it, the MD is the perfect weapon for the guys in the second row! So making it a spam weapon for Assault scrubs will get it nerfed to oblivion again! The MD needs careful adjustments, to get it on par with the rifles, but not OP! I posted a possible modification (no short term solution) in this thread: A Mass Driver secondary effect.which would help the MD to become a versatile tool for the support logis...
The MD isn't just a Support logi weapon, its designated as short range breaching and area denial. Its designed to suppress the enemy, cause discord among the troops and ultimately lay down intense firepower, giving the MD more rounds a clip will allow the MD to keep up its barrage for longer, making it king of tight spaces, like it should be.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
1644
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:41:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
And...how are assault supposed to fight a heavy with these kind of bonuses?
I really liked old bonuses, where you had an edge over heavies in damage output, but now....you guys already know heavies (especially Gallente, Caldari and Amarr) are going to be fotm and will need rebalance, right?
But, well, always better than nowadays skills....
Tank 514.
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1875
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Curious if that clip size applies to the swarm launcher? Said specifically Minmatar explosives, so no. Swarms are Caldari.
But if a minmatar AV weapon is ever released you can bet you bottom dollar that'll be effected.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1141
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Posted - 2014.02.08 11:17:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.
Well I'll tell ya, I like this better than the RoF idea; that was going to make for some crazy imbalances in the game. But with these changes I kind of feel like each race is being pigeonholed into using their races weaponry. It doesn't make for good customization. What if I like Gal suits but Cal weaponry. Then I'm just getting screwed.
CCP Saberwing wrote:Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment]
- Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
- Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
- Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
- Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Is it true that the cloak will not apply to the PG/CPU bonus? What do you guys have against making the logistics class also potentially simi-viable cloak users? It makes no since the bonus should also affect the cloak.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
952
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Posted - 2014.02.08 11:25:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking.
-- snip latest CCP/Shanghai gank list -- Why did it take this long for this to come out?
I was told repeatedly that the Logi Gank was not confirmed, don't worry your little Logi head about it yet - here it is.
My heavy suit is ganked, my logi functions are ganked, equipment is ganked, 15 months on this character are wasted.
And CCP/Shanghai wont give any SP back at all! Wow, sucks to be a Merc down in the Dust.
Now we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that your leaks were indeed fact. So why the month of more of denial?
Is there some type of bonus for you guys if you can drive the Beta players out? That is the only thing that makes sense to me. There will be no freedom in this game at all. Pick one suit, pick two weapons, pick a few functions. Do not do anything else, cause CCP/Shanghai will gank you. I enjoyed being able to pick and choose my play style, but those days are gone.
Dreary days ahead down in the Dust.
And so it goes.
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
186
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Posted - 2014.02.08 11:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
I love those!
Amarr and Minmatar are definitely fluffy. For Caldari, I agree that overall ammo capacity increase might be a nice addition to this skill, considering that long-ranged weapons aren't supposed to be used in the heat of battle (where reload speed is important), anyway.
As a Gallente, I'm not sure if I like the bonus. As someone else said, it doesn't help with PLC and shotgun. And, as we've seen with the HMG, too much dispersion reduction for a close combat weapon is actually counterproductive.
Edit:
Have you accidentally switched Caldari and Gallente bonuses for assaults?
They would make more sense that way. I actually think that a reload speed bonus alone is totally worth it in close combat. Only for long-ranged role does it become pointless.
Though I'd love to have a melee attack bonus when a hybrid blaster is equipped, to make the close combat role perfect. (Note that this line isn't serious)
Edit 2:
Maybe mag the clip size increase for Minmatar explosives +0.5 or something. It seems like +1 would break things. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4429
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 11:34:00 -
[84] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Is it true that the cloak will not apply to the PG/CPU bonus? What do you guys have against making the logistics class also potentially simi-viable cloak users? It makes no since the bonus should also affect the cloak.
You can safely use slightly lower-tier gear in order to fit a cloak, or use one less equipment slot, or drop a high/low slot from your fitting, or otherwise make some form of relatively minor COMPROMISE in order to make a viable cloaking suit.
You aren't MEANT to be able to fit a cloak without some form of cost involved. Whether that cost is having to run a low-HP Scout suit, or compromising other aspects on some other kind of suit is up to you. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
2002
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Posted - 2014.02.08 11:35:00 -
[85] - Quote
0000 00096 wrote:Jackof All-Trades wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too. Well that's ****. How is my plasma cannon to make use of that Gallente bonus? Just to be clear, I love you Saberwing. But I utterly hate that bonus. the dispersion and kick already have a skill attributed to them. How about 5% to range?
nope.
NOPE.
N-O-P-E
N
O
P
E
Nonono
Never.
Not gonna happen.
Your insane.
Sharpshooter was OP
Were you even here for Chromosome?
Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II
MAG ~ Seryi Volk Executive Response
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4429
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 11:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
0000 00096 wrote:the dispersion and kick already have a skill attributed to them. How about 5% to range?
Because the race which is meant to be most CQC-oriented need better range... 
Also, no. Sharpshooter range increase broke the game horribly before, doing it again is a terrible idea.
If anyone should get a range bonus (and they shouldn't), it would definitely NOT be Gallente. And as mentioned, nobody should get increased range. Even if they did, 2% would be too much. |
Kaughst
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 12:01:00 -
[87] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Mad Syringe wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's not the native user, it was just addopted Well, however you look at it, the MD is the perfect weapon for the guys in the second row! So making it a spam weapon for Assault scrubs will get it nerfed to oblivion again! The MD needs careful adjustments, to get it on par with the rifles, but not OP! I posted a possible modification (no short term solution) in this thread: A Mass Driver secondary effect.which would help the MD to become a versatile tool for the support logis... The MD isn't just a Support logi weapon, its designated as short range breaching and area denial. Its designed to suppress the enemy, cause discord among the troops and ultimately lay down intense firepower, giving the MD more rounds a clip will allow the MD to keep up its barrage for longer, making it king of tight spaces, like it should be.
He only obviously wants the MD to be effective for his class, the logi. The MD still needs to have a general increase per clip and ammo capacity, it is a better alternative to messing with splash damage or splash radius which are notoriously hated about this weapon rather than how many shells it can fire out.
I believe in 1.8 they said weapons will do damage mostly to what it inherently is good at hurting I.E explosives doing less damage to shields as it should be. This becomes a obvious problem for the MD in 1.8, overcoming that is to increase the clip size and the ammo size rather than the damage. I saw that a increased clip size works well instead of damage first hand back in the closed beta when it was increased from 4 to 6, giving that available to all classes allows some flexibility with it. I understand putting that damage increase on the Minmatar commando because of how specialized the suit is but the Minmatar assault does not need to back into solely running the weapon to have that effectiveness with it, I would rather see a ROF or Radius increase relegated to the Minmatar Assault or something else.
"That is not how you say my name."
"How do you say your name?"
"I don't know but that is not how you say it."
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
League of Infamy
461
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 12:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:
OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking.
Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons]
- Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level.
- Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level.
- Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level.
- Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.
Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment]
- Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
- Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
- Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
- Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
Thanks for the information Saberwing. This is the kind of thing DUST seriously needs more of; just flat out "this is our current idea on X thing." A little too often it seems as if the DUST community is left in the dark on important changes that seriously affect them. It seems that by doing so you have kinda derailed the "Welcome back, Kotter" bit of this thread though, to which I am not going to help get back on track (but seriously, glad to have you back!)
I understand not wanting to have any bit of buff that is going to reduce TTK any farther. I assume this is why the Rate of Fire proposal thing is going away. Time to Kill IS incredibly short in this game; my advanced Rail Rifle kills people almost as fast as my basic 80 gj Blaster so not including more ROF is probably a decent idea. However I, like many of my fellow Immortals, do have some criticisms about these bonuses.
First, the blanket Assault bit. It is a fairly minor change in PG/CPU. For the Caldari using both a Prototype Rail Rifle and Prototype Magsec SMG, it amounts to 21/15.5 CPU reduction and 4.25/2 PG reduction totaling 36.5 CPU and 6.25 PG. It doesn't seem to add that much overall other than being able to possibly use higher level modules. I am unsure how much this will help but it is just a blanket bonus so it doesn't need to be overly great. Of course, for weapons that are already easy to fit like if the person isn't running prototype, it is kinda worthless.
Now for the racial variants. First things first: I am glad that the bonuses are not overly large. Not using a Rail Rifle as a Caldari assault should be 95% effective rather than 100%. A bonus that is too important that effectively says "makes the weapon finally viable" is kinda lame as it means ONLY X race could ever use Y weapon. A Caldari with a Rail Rifle should be better than a Gallente period (death to to the Federation) but should only be just a little better with a Rail Rifle than the Gallente assault.
Caldari bonus: This seems rather lacking and is more definitely boring. Reload speed is almost impossible to notice. The Rail Rifle has a 3.2 second reload speed. Reducing it by 25% makes it 2.4. A blink of the eye, apparently, takes between 300 to 400 milliseconds. So blink twice. That is the reduced time for the Rail Rifle. It also does nothing in the moment of a fight unlike all the other bonuses.
Gallente bonus: It should give a bonus for killing unarmed civilians on Caldari Prime and make it easier by which to have carnal relations with their sisters. Speaking seriously, it will go a decent way in making the Assault Rifle (please consider changing the name...) better at close combat and at greater distances. I am actually wondering if it could be a detriment though for those that use Aim Assist. The biggest problem I see is that it only helps two weapons; the Assault Rifle (please change the name) and the Shotgun. Assaults rarely use the Shotgun so it seems to only be for the AR. It actively helps in a fight though.
Minmatar bonus: Having tried the Combat Rifle, ammo is definitely a problem. Having watched videos of the ACR burning through a clip in the time it takes for a good belch to finish, this is useful. This gives the weapons more staying power. One extra explosive round per level might, maybe, possibly, be a bit much. 8 Flaylock rounds and 10+ rounds for the Mass Driver is going to lead to a lot of "spam thy explosives." Will be interesting to see. Anyway, the bonus helps the Minmatar in a fight.
Amarr bonus: The bonus that the Amarr were all choked up about losing. It is a decent bonus and is easy to see how it helps. Being able to see how much the bonus helps is a quite attractive; having a smaller scan radius is hard to visualize/notice but seeing your run speed increase is nice, makes the SP invested seem powerful. Again, helps in a fight.
What I don't understand is that Commandos seems to now be the damage dealers. What is the role the Assault class is meant to fill?
Sentinel: Tank
Logistics: Support
Scout: Umm, Scouting/being sneaky.
Commando: Heavy damage dealing, strong defenses.
Assault: What is the design intent? |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
647
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 12:08:00 -
[89] - Quote
+1 to suggestions that caldari should get +zoom when scoped.
Selling dust codes!
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Ryme Intrinseca
603
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Posted - 2014.02.08 12:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
NO NO NO!
Why does Minmitar gear always get the short end of the straw?! Specifically, the 'bonus' to Minmatar logistics is useless to the vast majority of min logistics players. I specced into the suit because I wanted a fast logi that could set up uplinks, scan the objective, and get a quick hack in. The previous bonus (hack speed) specifically catered to that playstyle. And now you're giving a bonus that is for the exact opposite playstyle - someone who's walking along with his rep tool locked on a heavy. I have NO interest in rep tools and had no reason to expect the most lightly armoured, fastest logi with a hacking bonus to suddenly become the designated chubby chaser.
You better be planning a skill refund or you will lose a LOT of players with these ridiculously specific, and previously unadvertised, bonuses. |
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