Thanks for the information Saberwing. This is the kind of thing DUST seriously needs more of; just flat out "this is our current idea on X thing." A little too often it seems as if the DUST community is left in the dark on important changes that seriously affect them. It seems that by doing so you have kinda derailed the "Welcome back, Kotter" bit of this thread though, to which I am not going to help get back on track (but seriously, glad to have you back!)

I understand not wanting to have any bit of buff that is going to reduce TTK any farther. I assume this is why the Rate of Fire proposal thing is going away. Time to Kill IS incredibly short in this game; my advanced Rail Rifle kills people almost as fast as my basic 80 gj Blaster so not including more ROF is probably a decent idea. However I, like many of my fellow Immortals, do have some criticisms about these bonuses.

First, the blanket Assault bit. It is a fairly minor change in PG/CPU. For the Caldari using both a Prototype Rail Rifle and Prototype Magsec SMG, it amounts to 21/15.5 CPU reduction and 4.25/2 PG reduction totaling 36.5 CPU and 6.25 PG. It doesn't seem to add that much overall other than being able to possibly use higher level modules. I am unsure how much this will help but it is just a blanket bonus so it doesn't need to be overly great. Of course, for weapons that are already easy to fit like if the person isn't running prototype, it is kinda worthless.

Now for the racial variants. First things first: I am glad that the bonuses are not overly large. Not using a Rail Rifle as a Caldari assault should be 95% effective rather than 100%. A bonus that is too important that effectively says "makes the weapon finally viable" is kinda lame as it means ONLY X race could ever use Y weapon. A Caldari with a Rail Rifle should be better than a Gallente period (death to to the Federation) but should only be just a little better with a Rail Rifle than the Gallente assault.

Caldari bonus: This seems rather lacking and is more definitely boring. Reload speed is almost impossible to notice. The Rail Rifle has a 3.2 second reload speed. Reducing it by 25% makes it 2.4. A blink of the eye, apparently, takes between 300 to 400 milliseconds. So blink twice. That is the reduced time for the Rail Rifle. It also does nothing in the moment of a fight unlike all the other bonuses.

Gallente bonus: It should give a bonus for killing unarmed civilians on Caldari Prime and make it easier by which to have carnal relations with their sisters. Speaking seriously, it will go a decent way in making the Assault Rifle (please consider changing the name...) better at close combat and at greater distances. I am actually wondering if it could be a detriment though for those that use Aim Assist. The biggest problem I see is that it only helps two weapons; the Assault Rifle (please change the name) and the Shotgun. Assaults rarely use the Shotgun so it seems to only be for the AR. It actively helps in a fight though.

Minmatar bonus: Having tried the Combat Rifle, ammo is definitely a problem. Having watched videos of the ACR burning through a clip in the time it takes for a good belch to finish, this is useful. This gives the weapons more staying power. One extra explosive round per level might, maybe, possibly, be a bit much. 8 Flaylock rounds and 10+ rounds for the Mass Driver is going to lead to a lot of "spam thy explosives." Will be interesting to see. Anyway, the bonus helps the Minmatar in a fight.

Amarr bonus: The bonus that the Amarr were all choked up about losing. It is a decent bonus and is easy to see how it helps. Being able to see how much the bonus helps is a quite attractive; having a smaller scan radius is hard to visualize/notice but seeing your run speed increase is nice, makes the SP invested seem powerful. Again, helps in a fight.

What I don't understand is that Commandos seems to now be the damage dealers. What is the role the Assault class is meant to fill?
Sentinel: Tank
Logistics: Support
Scout: Umm, Scouting/being sneaky.
Commando: Heavy damage dealing, strong defenses.
Assault: What is the design intent?

NO NO NO!

Why does Minmitar gear always get the short straw?! Specifically, the 'bonus' to Minmatar logistics is useless to the vast majority of min logistics players. I specced into the suit because I wanted a fast logi that could set up uplinks, scan the objective, and get a quick hack in. The previous bonus (hack speed) specifically catered to that playstyle. And now you're giving a bonus that is for the exact opposite playstyle - someone who's walking along with his rep tool locked on a heavy. I have NO interest in rep tools and had no reason to expect the most lightly armoured, fastest logi with a hacking bonus to suddenly become the designated chubby chaser.

You better be planning a skill refund or you will lose a LOT of players with these ridiculously specific, and previously unadvertised, bonuses.

I think I should stop commenting on the MD...but I will make one last argument. Would you rather they buff the splash damage/radius or increase the clip size. A weapon that takes less time to kill you in a few splashes or trying to a avoid a weapon that needs several more splashes of damage than it would normally take.

oh boy yessss reload speeeed aweeesome....makes a huge difference in balancing....not. useless skill ever imo..i barely even use a railrifle...

oh boy yessss reload speeeed aweeesome....makes a huge difference in balancing....not. useless skill ever imo..i barely even use a railrifle...

Nyain San and you don't use a Rail Rifle

Fatal absolution not bashing on a nyain san post? never

Well played.

OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking.

Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons]
- Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level.
- Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level.
- Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level.
- Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.

Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment]
- Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
- Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
- Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
- Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.

Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.

Well I'll tell ya, I like this better than the RoF idea; that was going to make for some crazy imbalances in the game. But with these changes I kind of feel like each race is being pigeonholed into using their races weaponry. It doesn't make for good customization. What if I like Gal suits but Cal weaponry. Then I'm just getting screwed.



Is it true that the cloak will not apply to the PG/CPU bonus? What do you guys have against making the logistics class also potentially simi-viable cloak users? It makes no since the bonus should also affect the cloak.

Obviously more shots as TTK is supposed to be lessened. I just envision two Minmatar Assaults blanketing an entire area with near continuous explosions with a nanohive or two. However, I wasn't taking a hard line stance on any of the bonuses other than the Caldari and that was mostly because of the imperceptibility of the reload difference and for the fact that it does nothing to help you when you are fighting someone. I have only used the Mass Driver once and that was back in beta. I just didn't like the weapon, way to specific of a scenario where it was effective; IE, being above someone or them against a wall so the splash is easier.

I just really don't like the Caldari one and I am really curious what the Dev Team would say is the role of the Assault compared to the other suits. I don't mean this as an insult or a "buff assaults!!!", I am just curious what their design decision for the suit is.

The problem is making some weapons only viable to certain racial assault suits and making other suits have pointless skills like reload time. The Heavies, sentinel and commando there is consistency in their racial bonuses because they have specialty but the assault class is needs to be versatile and restricting any of them to having one racial weapon be viable for that racial suit hurts that sense. I would rather have the racial bonuses tied to their armor and shields and give the assault class bonus something more interesting...just not a pgu/cpu reduction...(edit: oops)...yea something else.

- Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level.

Excuse me, but...



+5 to projectile light/sidearm WHAT???

The problem is making some weapons only viable to certain racial assault suits and making other suits have pointless skills like reload time. The Heavies, sentinel and commando there is consistency in their racial bonuses because they have specialty but the assault class is needs to be versatile and restricting any of them to having one racial weapon be viable for that racial suit hurts that sense. I would rather have the racial bonuses tied to their armor and shields and give the assault class bonus something more interesting...just not a pgu/cpu reduction...(edit: oops)...yea something else.

This basically means a full on respec to come on 1.8. Yes so excited

OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking.

Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons]
- Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level.
- Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level.
- Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level.
- Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.

Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment]
- Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
- Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
- Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
- Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.

Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.

The way I read it is that the regular projectile weapons (hitscan) are getting 5% clip size increase per level, and Minmatar explosive weapons are getting +1 per level (which will be much more significant for those weapons).

Excuse me, but...



+5 to projectile light/sidearm WHAT???

Holy ****? 95 bullets in my ACR clip? YES PLEASE!

Dear GODS. Please no. We do not need more of this. The AR with Sharpshooter 5 is already more accurate than the laser rifle and that thing is a laser pointer... Why would you think this is a good idea?
Unless the SMG, Combat Rifle, and Assault Rifle are losing the Sharpshooter skill and they are going to the have dispersion of the shotgun this is a terrible idea

He only obviously wants the MD to be effective for his class, the logi. The MD still needs to have a general increase per clip and ammo capacity, it is a better alternative to messing with splash damage or splash radius which are notoriously hated about this weapon rather than how many shells it can fire out.

I believe in 1.8 they said weapons will do damage mostly to what it inherently is good at hurting I.E explosives doing less damage to shields as it should be. This becomes a obvious problem for the MD in 1.8, overcoming that is to increase the clip size and the ammo size rather than the damage. I saw that a increased clip size works well instead of damage first hand back in the closed beta when it was increased from 4 to 6, giving that available to all classes allows some flexibility with it. I understand putting that damage increase on the Minmatar commando because of how specialized the suit is but the Minmatar assault does not need to back into solely running the weapon to have that effectiveness with it, I would rather see a ROF or Radius increase relegated to the Minmatar Assault or something else.

The only issue that I wonder about is if the Minmatar bonus stacks with itself on Mass Drivers and Flaylocks, for the Mass Driver that is the difference between 11 shots in the clip or 12.5-13.75 (depends on rounding and order of operations).

I'm going to miss the flat boost to sidearm clip size, it made for some fun dual sidearm suits :)

Really appreciate the info on the assault and logi suits...

Quick feedback - the Caldari bonus is poor at best. The other racial bonuses fit nicely with their racial weapons and contribute directly to effectiveness on the battlefield. I strongly recommend a 7% reduction in spool time for rail weapons per level.

Edit: I bumped up the recommended rail tech spool reduction to 7% after doing some quick math and seeing how little 5% helped out.