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Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1045	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:41:00 - [1] - Quote Seriously... Why am I even working with Medium Frame Dropsuits, such as the assault, if the Heavy Frame Dropsuits do assaulting much better than me? I know you guys are going to respond with, "stop QQing" but honestly if you face a squad full of them or a team that has around 6 of them roaming around in a blob, you'd be singing the same tune. They're going 20/0 without much trouble and working outside of their intended roles better than the class whose roles they are performing. Oh. And let's not forget it's WAY cheaper to go this route compared to using a Medium Frame. We would have to stack a good amount of plates just to come close to their base eHP with a higher price. They can do this for way less at a base price and add on a few plates and out do us by 300+ eHp STILL at a cheaper cost. It makes me feel inadequate because my suit doesn't seem viable for the job it's supposed to be doing. Makes me think I should join in on the fun and go Heavy with a rifle but I know that's this, the ability to outperform assault units for assaulting as a sentinel unit, isn't right. I'm really asking the community here, what is the point of using Assault Dropsuits right now? "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 8920	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:50:00 - [2] - Quote Assault dropsuits, hated as they are, are generally not amazingly viable - with the exception of dual tanked Calassaults and sufficiently synergised Amarr assaults. They're certainly much better than scouts, and certainly better than the old heavies, but there it ends. Future heavies will eat medframes for breakfast, and scouts are getting their much needed love soon. Luckily, logis will hopefully be nerfed to hell though. You're going to get flamed/raged at a lot for this post, but honestly there is some sense in what you are saying. If heavies become supreme at slaying, tanking, assaulting, etc - what becomes the point of the assault suit? There is no need to run it if its role is completely overshadowed by others. This is one reason I like the idea of heavies being completely dominant in CQC (and also their slower turn speed, making them vulnerable to things such as shotgun scouts). Assault suits should not be able to take heavies head on/CQC unless the heavy is basically staring slack-jawed at their screen doing nothing. But I am not of the belief that heavies should be able to destroy everything in combat, regardless of range. Heavies were crapped on for a long time and logistics have long been supreme, but I am concerned that the situation will reverse completely and there will be no reason to use an assault suit. TBH though I'm more concerned about this uber regen high HP assault scout with cloak + speed I'm looking at... ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
RedZer0 MK1 The Generals General Tso's Alliance 171	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:52:00 - [3] - Quote Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2673	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:56:00 - [4] - Quote Assaults are supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades class. Tougher than light frames, yet weaker than heavies. Faster than heavies, yet slower than lights. More slots allow for more versatility, and balanced stats make them excellent troopers on the battlefield. A good squad of assaults might not be able to have an offensive presence as much as a squad of heavies/commando's, but they will be far more versatile instead, able to do almost anything on the battlefield. TL;DR A good assault will be able to have more variations of their fits. With lots of slots and good all around stats, they can have a fit for everything. Less specialization, but nobody can do as much as they can at a moments notice. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 8920	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:58:00 - [5] - Quote RedZer0 MK1 wrote: Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. Speed will not prevent a group of long range heavy weapon heavies from crushing you off objectives if they can take you in any form of straight combat, regardless of range. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 673	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:59:00 - [6] - Quote Because an assault can stealth tank. They can use scanners, they can throw remotes. Also heavies are terrible at dodging fire. Get caught 20m away from a crate by a RR? Better kill that bastard quick. Heavies also require a Logistics, or run a commando, sacrifice a weapon for a Ishy triage hive. Or yknow... Run Amarr assault/logi and have 20x the range, respectable regen and similar HP cieling. Equipment slots mean you can self supply Ammo, reps, scans, and demolitions. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) Selling SP: 10k SP per 100k ISK.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1045	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:59:00 - [7] - Quote RedZer0 MK1 wrote: Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. I'd agree but there's plenty of instances where using mobility can be futile. If it was as easy as being mobile and strafing, then I wouldn't be getting my high mobility Gallente suit put to shame lately, like it has been. It only works if you can successfully flank. If they know where you are or going and are essentially going head to head with you, you're screwed. With that said, players can be smart and make sure they never get put into a situation where they'll be easily flanked...I mean they are heavies after all and their low mobility would teach them the hard way to keep a good position. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 116	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:00:00 - [8] - Quote Idk heavy assaults do have cons. In open ground they are at a huge disadvantage, on skirmish maps walking is not practical, and they are not as flexible suits. All said, they are tough to put down, but rolling with a squad will change things in your favor. Will there be squads of heavies? ( I have never seen one). Maybe, but then let them come to you over open ground. I think if we could communicate with the whole team natively then we could develop better meta tactics when certain elements are hard to overcome. But who will be the leader? Maybe have a option to have a preference level for it and based on how many times you have had it recently you will have a score. As you play more games and do not act as commander your score goes up. Then after you have been it your score goes back to base preference level. Of course, only squad leads will be selected for the role after the game loads. FAME
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 911	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:00:00 - [9] - Quote equipment, speed, hitbox. Say it with me now equipment, speed, hitbox equipment, speed, hitbox ....
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1219	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:00:00 - [10] - Quote I've rarely felt that to be the case. I really like the commando, but I don't think it's all that great as an assult suit. to be a good and proper assault I think you've gotta be able to duck and weave in the middle of a fight. i'm not sure you can do any of that with a heavy suit.

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1045	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:06:00 - [11] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Because an assault can stealth tank. They can use scanners, they can throw remotes. Also heavies are terrible at dodging fire. Get caught 20m away from a crate by a RR? Better kill that bastard quick. Heavies also require a Logistics, or run a commando, sacrifice a weapon for a Ishy triage hive. Or yknow... Run Amarr assault/logi and have 20x the range, respectable regen and similar HP cieling. Equipment slots mean you can self supply Ammo, reps, scans, and demolitions. Assaults can't stealth tank. :< That's BS. As far as stealth tanking goes Scouts > Logis > Assaults > Sentinels/Commandos. Heavies might be terrible at dodging fire but they are great at absorbing it, that's their intended role. Nothing actually wrong with that because that's what they're all about. With a rifle they can shoot you at a distance while absorbing damage. They don't need a logi if the DPS doesn't kill them and they have Complex Reps. With their 3 low slots, they can stack 18.75 repair rate. Don't need much of a change outside of that. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 911	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:07:00 - [12] - Quote Oh, adding the commando into this? I see Commandos aren't really that beast in terms of hitpoints versus a medium frame, still slow, large hitbox, and crap shield regen. True they have 1 equipment slot.. but.. I guess their beast melee damage is scary Honestly answer this, what do you fear more... assuming equivalent skills... going to fight toe to toe 2 logis (links, reppers, hives, needles), 2 assaults (scanners), 2 heavies (with HMGs) or 3 heavies 3 commandos all running light weapons?
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1045	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:08:00 - [13] - Quote low genius wrote: I've rarely felt that to be the case. I really like the commando, but I don't think it's all that great as an assult suit. to be a good and proper assault I think you've gotta be able to duck and weave in the middle of a fight. i'm not sure you can do any of that with a heavy suit. I should be more clear. I'm talking about the Sentinel(I'm stuck in calling it "The Heavy" because of how long I've been here) not the Commando. Come 1.8, the Commando should be the best DPS with less tanking than a heavy but more than an assault. They'll also be pricier and need more skills to be used to it's best and are the most specialized suit we have so far. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1045	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:10:00 - [14] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Idk heavy assaults do have cons. In open ground they are at a huge disadvantage, on skirmish maps walking is not practical, and they are not as flexible suits. All said, they are tough to put down, but rolling with a squad will change things in your favor. Will there be squads of heavies? ( I have never seen one). Maybe, but then let them come to you over open ground. I think if we could communicate with the whole team natively then we could develop better meta tactics when certain elements are hard to overcome. But who will be the leader? Maybe have a option to have a preference level for it and based on how many times you have had it recently you will have a score. As you play more games and do not act as commander your score goes up. Then after you have been it your score goes back to base preference level. Of course, only squad leads will be selected for the role after the game loads. Certain corps put forth squads of heavies. That's where the flaws really "shine." Also even at a long distance, if they're carrying a Rail Rifle like so many of them do, you're more than likely to be the one on the short end of the stick. They can absorb the damage better and still put out decent DPS. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1045	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:14:00 - [15] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: equipment, speed, hitbox. Say it with me now equipment, speed, hitbox equipment, speed, hitbox .... Equipment. Speed. Hitbox. Equipment doesn't matter. They hold points with their standard equipment. While they can work with a logi to stack more eHP, they can essentially just use Complex Repair to boost their defenses when alone. The only other issue I'd imagine they would have is ammo but then everyone has that issue and it's not fair to use as an excuse. Speed doesn't mean much either. They're meant to absorb damage. If they can get into a range that allows good enough DPS they're more likely to win. Hitbox doesn't matter much because again, they're meant to absorb damage. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 913	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:14:00 - [16] - Quote That's a good situation to analyze. 6 heavies w/ light weapons versus a dynamic squad. Sure, if you try to advance straight into them you will most likely be toast assuming they can dish out equal DPS, and have 75-100% more HP than you. However, your advantage will be in equipment.. you know they cant scan, you know their precision is ****.. so you need to flank. If you cant flank and they are turtled in (say in a domination match or something) then, well, that is what they are good at. Hit them from different angles, drop down some repper hives at choke points, blast them with grenades. If they want to turtle, be a hare... don't try to outdps them, try to out maneuver them. And I know I don't have to tell you this you are a good player.. just saying. This argument, in my opinion, only comes when someone gets beat by a heavy/light weapon. Its a rare sight, and even if it becomes popular I will welcome it as a new challenge :) Not like some people who are actually calling for heavies to only be able to use heavy weapons (lol there are only 2 haha).
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 674	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:14:00 - [17] - Quote None. Speed is irrelevant with RIfle DPS and AA, combined with "mandatory unless you're Caldari" Armor plates reducing speed. Might as well be using Amarr Logistics, since you can carry 3 EQ.
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 913	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:15:00 - [18] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: ER-Bullitt wrote: equipment, speed, hitbox. Say it with me now equipment, speed, hitbox equipment, speed, hitbox .... Equipment. Speed. Hitbox. Equipment doesn't matter. They hold points with their standard equipment. While they can work with a logi to stack more eHP, they can essentially just use Complex Repair to boost their defenses when alone. The only other issue I'd imagine they would have is ammo but then everyone has that issue and it's not fair to use as an excuse. Speed doesn't mean much either. They're meant to absorb damage. If they can get into a range that allows good enough DPS they're more likely to win. Hitbox doesn't matter much because again, they're meant to absorb damage. LOL my bad, forget my comment that you are a good player. This is absolute utter QQ bullshit of a post. smh
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1045	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:16:00 - [19] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: ER-Bullitt wrote: equipment, speed, hitbox. Say it with me now equipment, speed, hitbox equipment, speed, hitbox .... Equipment. Speed. Hitbox. Equipment doesn't matter. They hold points with their standard equipment. While they can work with a logi to stack more eHP, they can essentially just use Complex Repair to boost their defenses when alone. The only other issue I'd imagine they would have is ammo but then everyone has that issue and it's not fair to use as an excuse. Speed doesn't mean much either. They're meant to absorb damage. If they can get into a range that allows good enough DPS they're more likely to win. Hitbox doesn't matter much because again, they're meant to absorb damage. LOL my bad, forget my comment that you are a good player. This is absolute utter QQ bullshit of a post. smh :/ I'm sorry that you feel the need to ***** back and act like I'm not responding appropriately by not giving me the same respect I just gave your sorry ass. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 657	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:18:00 - [20] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Luckily, logis will hopefully be nerfed to hell though. Don't nerf me to hell, I don't want to be a straight up logi slayer, I want to just be a more combat oriented logi, compete with the assaults without out shining them, just so that I can keep the front line supplied with hives, uplinks, scans, and reps. Maybe a few RE's for EXPLOSIONS, because EXPLOSIONS? EXPLOSIONS! "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!

ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 913	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:19:00 - [21] - Quote You need to be scolded for QQ'ing... I really cant believe how people can complain this much about heavies using OP weapons, and somehow its the suits fault. Ive played both heavy and medium frame, and I'm telling you the combat efectivness on both heavy and medium suits is vastly different. If you don't think that speed, strafing, equipment, flanking, or any of that matters then you are dusting wrong. plain and simple.. overcome, adapt, play smarter. and overall.. HAVE FUN!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 8925	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:22:00 - [22] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: That's a good situation to analyze. 6 heavies w/ light weapons versus a dynamic squad. Sure, if you try to advance straight into them you will most likely be toast assuming they can dish out equal DPS, and have 75-100% more HP than you. However, your advantage will be in equipment.. you know they cant scan, you know their precision is ****.. so you need to flank. If you cant flank and they are turtled in (say in a domination match or something) then, well, that is what they are good at. Hit them from different angles, drop down some repper hives at choke points, blast them with grenades. If they want to turtle, be a hare... don't try to outdps them, try to out maneuver them. And I know I don't have to tell you this you are a good player.. just saying. This argument, in my opinion, only comes when someone gets beat by a heavy/light weapon. Its a rare sight, and even if it becomes popular I will welcome it as a new challenge :) Not like some people who are actually calling for heavies to only be able to use heavy weapons (lol there are only 2 haha). This entirely hypothetical scenario depends on one squad bringing nothing but heavies with light weapons. What happens when they bring even minimal logistics support with them? To clarify my own views - I do not see heavies with light weapon as a massive problem. However, with 1.8 heavies which will be tough as hell, if new heavy weapons were to equal light weapons in range and beat them in DPS there would be a problem. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1046	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:25:00 - [23] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: That's a good situation to analyze. 6 heavies w/ light weapons versus a dynamic squad. Sure, if you try to advance straight into them you will most likely be toast assuming they can dish out equal DPS, and have 75-100% more HP than you. However, your advantage will be in equipment.. you know they cant scan, you know their precision is ****.. so you need to flank. If you cant flank and they are turtled in (say in a domination match or something) then, well, that is what they are good at. Hit them from different angles, drop down some repper hives at choke points, blast them with grenades. If they want to turtle, be a hare... don't try to outdps them, try to out maneuver them. And I know I don't have to tell you this you are a good player.. just saying. This argument, in my opinion, only comes when someone gets beat by a heavy/light weapon. Its a rare sight, and even if it becomes popular I will welcome it as a new challenge :) Not like some people who are actually calling for heavies to only be able to use heavy weapons (lol there are only 2 haha). I'd argue I run with a pretty good squad of players and when we do face a squad of sentinels like we have in the past, it can get to the point that it's ridiculous. We keep 1 dedicated logi who constantly scans, at least two-three assaults, including myself, who range from decent to good, and some others who may vary. It's still rough. You see them coming but it's a train wreck in a lot of maps. It's nothing you can really do. You kill 1 you gotta reload when their teammate comes up and unloads into you. Rinse and repeat, over and over and over again. And oddly enough it's not when they're huddled together that's the issue, it's when they're pulling off advanced movements and flanking us, that's the issue. I know, I know "Lol htf do you get flanked by heavies?" but it's easier than it sounds...especially when they use each other as a distraction. I can think of a few situations where I was aiming at one guy and then I turned around, not even finished because of their eHp, and get my skull blasted open. It's not as rare as you think. :< It's been getting popular ever since a month or two ago and certain corps are using this tactic to their advantage. In the last couple of days, I haven't faced a match without seeing at least one of them, and a majority of the time it's quite a few of em. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 572	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:30:00 - [24] - Quote Why not just...get in a heavy suit and fight them? What do you hope to accomplish with your post? There's always going to be disparity between what you have and what your opponent does. It's unlikely CCP will EVER limit Heavy suits to just heavy weapons. It wouldn't make any sense. The game is about choice. Fitting choice. Weapon choice. Suit choice. Etc. Instead of QQing about Heavy squads, have you and your squad deploy in heavy suits. It's not CCP's problem to fix. It's yours to use the tools they have given you to become the problem solver. This issue will likely be somewhat resolved when Assault and Logistic suit changes come in 1.8(?). Assault suits will buff certain weapon types (which is an indirect nerf to Heavies using those same weapons), but Heavy suits will be stronger against certain types. The takeaway, though, is that you should adapt. Change your tactic. Don't come crying to the forums about a Heavy squad with Rail Rifles when you could be doing the same thing. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1220	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:31:00 - [25] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: low genius wrote: I've rarely felt that to be the case. I really like the commando, but I don't think it's all that great as an assult suit. to be a good and proper assault I think you've gotta be able to duck and weave in the middle of a fight. i'm not sure you can do any of that with a heavy suit. I should be more clear. I'm talking about the Sentinel(I'm stuck in calling it "The Heavy" because of how long I've been here) not the Commando. Come 1.8, the Commando should be the best DPS with less tanking than a heavy but more than an assault. They'll also be pricier and need more skills to be used to it's best and are the most specialized suit we have so far. I've always felt like the hitbox on the heavy negates any positive effects you could get from speed-tanking it. if i'm wearing a heavy i'm staying at one objective (unless there's awesome cover)
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1830	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:32:00 - [26] - Quote Heavies wolfpacking is no worse than anyone else wolfpacking. Hell if 6 scout suits wolfpacked they would still own. The problem with Heavies is that in the current iteration doesn't allow for Assaults to make use of the speed. Mass Drivers aren't the Heavy Counter they use to be, which will only get worse in 1.8. Pair this with with the poor performance of shotguns and well, at short range nothing will beat a heavy. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1047	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:33:00 - [27] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: You need to be scolded for QQ'ing... I really cant believe how people can complain this much about heavies using OP weapons, and somehow its the suits fault. Ive played both heavy and medium frame, and I'm telling you the combat efectivness on both heavy and medium suits is vastly different. If you don't think that speed, strafing, equipment, flanking, or any of that matters then you are dusting wrong. plain and simple.. overcome, adapt, play smarter. and overall.. HAVE FUN! Did I say it was only the heavies? I wanted to point to the Rail Rifle but I felt that was a topic meant for another thread. In all honesty, this trend probably started because of TTK and the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle's effectiveness against eHP, no matter the tank. My premise is why should I use assaults over the heavy suits and so far no one has gave a real reason. I use a mobile suit for most of my encounters and it doesn't help. I use a Scanner to scan for them and it doesn't help. I haven't jumped dramatically into this argument about heavies and rifles until now because I've finally decided that it doesn't make sense for me to be using an assault for assaulting. Essentially telling me to HTFU isn't the answer here. It would be like tankers telling AV to harden up because despite their OPness they can still be destroyed by AV if they work together and "adapt." That's a more extreme case than this but my argument still holds water. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 8926	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:33:00 - [28] - Quote Vespasian Andendare wrote: Why not just...get in a heavy suit and fight them? I'm going to stop you there. Are you also of the belief that the Gallogi should not be nerfed because others can 'just get in one and fight them'? Do you think that the TAR nerf was unjustified because people could 'just get one and fight them'? ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1047	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:34:00 - [29] - Quote Vespasian Andendare wrote: Why not just...get in a heavy suit and fight them? What do you hope to accomplish with your post? There's always going to be disparity between what you have and what your opponent does. It's unlikely CCP will EVER limit Heavy suits to just heavy weapons. It wouldn't make any sense. The game is about choice. Fitting choice. Weapon choice. Suit choice. Etc. Instead of QQing about Heavy squads, have you and your squad deploy in heavy suits. It's not CCP's problem to fix. It's yours to use the tools they have given you to become the problem solver. This issue will likely be somewhat resolved when Assault and Logistic suit changes come in 1.8(?). Assault suits will buff certain weapon types (which is an indirect nerf to Heavies using those same weapons), but Heavy suits will be stronger against certain types. The takeaway, though, is that you should adapt. Change your tactic. Don't come crying to the forums about a Heavy squad with Rail Rifles when you could be doing the same thing. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 312	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:38:00 - [30] - Quote Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as **** light weapons they're using. This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending. WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players. Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable.

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1048	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:38:00 - [31] - Quote Scalesdini wrote: Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as **** light weapons they're using. This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending. WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players. Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable. Go back and read my responses to the same argument "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 312	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:43:00 - [32] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Scalesdini wrote: Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as **** light weapons they're using. This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending. WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players. Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable. I have no valid counterpoint, so I'm going to imply you didn't read the thread already FTFY
Termin8ter The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 0	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:47:00 - [33] - Quote Seriously try something before you hate on it because you think heavies are overpowered but they are not. All i run is heavy and i can tell you that you are SO slow any open space against any other suit is death. Try using a militia heavy with a complex damage mod, complex rep and WHAT EVER gun you want . You will see why i say they are not op. Not to mention a heavy cant hold an equipment. Also do not try to say comandos are the threat because at the moment comandos are a joke. You can make a light weapon on a heavy work but you have to stay right next to cover btw.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 8927	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:48:00 - [34] - Quote Scalesdini wrote: Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as **** light weapons they're using. This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending. WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players. Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable. This is not about heavies 'not being outclassed by everything else in every single situation'. They were almost like that once, but with 1.8 levels of toughness heavies will be incredibly durable. That's as it should be. However, if you combine that with good range, and excellent DPS, why would you not run a heavy? It simply becomes the superior option. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 915	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:50:00 - [35] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This entirely hypothetical scenario depends on one squad bringing nothing but heavies with light weapons. What happens when they bring even minimal logistics support with them? I thought that was what the OP was about, Heavies wolfpacking with light weapons? Assuming your squad is of the "dynamic" variety you will have a heavy or two of your own, running HMG's perhaps? logi them with some strategically placed repper hives and keep the enemy heavies at bay while the rest of your squad flanks. Medium suits can still flank correct? Or perhaps bring a dampened scout/shotgun, a solid counter to a pack of heavies, no? I cant justify arguing this point if the hard counters are being ignored and people are saying speed, flanking, hitbox, equipment, everything I said "don't matter".. that's bollocks. Quote: To clarify my own views - I do not see heavies with light weapon as a massive problem. However, with 1.8 heavies which will be tough as hell, if new heavy weapons were to equal light weapons in range and beat them in DPS there would be a problem. Lets see what happens when 1.8 goes live, until then its conjecture. Cant really ask for nerfs/buffs or game changes based on expectations of what might happen.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1830	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:57:00 - [36] - Quote Termin8ter wrote: Seriously try something before you hate on it because you think heavies are overpowered but they are not. All i run is heavy and i can tell you that you are SO slow any open space against any other suit is death. Try using a militia heavy with a complex damage mod, complex rep and WHAT EVER gun you want . You will see why i say they are not op. Not to mention a heavy cant hold an equipment. Also do not try to say comandos are the threat because at the moment comandos are a joke. You can make a light weapon on a heavy work but you have to stay right next to cover btw. Yeah but peoples experience differ. I walk round with a scrambler pistol, I just stand there don't move and mow down Assault Suits. They think they have me because my main is a forge, but it's quite the opposite. Heavies are gonna have places they will be awsome, but they still need counters like any other suit. I saw a heavy with logi support go 67-1 the other day, using a HMG, I killed him with a shotgun, after jumping over his head, headshotting his logi and headshotting him twoce. At point blank. Do you not think if a Scout Managed to get that close, that prehaps a breach shotgun should capable of dispatching them with ease? Heavies can now survive Direct Forge Gun hits, without logi support. They can take as much as 2 RE charges (3 by 1.8). The heavies are very quickly heading towards being buffed to oblivion, like the tanks were, unless CCP makes the Breach Shotgun the HardCounter, any map with Sockets will end up as a Heavies Playground. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 313	Posted - 2014.02.04 23:01:00 - [37] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Scalesdini wrote: Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as ** light weapons they're using. This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending. WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players. Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable. This is not about heavies 'not being outclassed by everything else in every single situation'. They were almost like that once, but with 1.8 levels of toughness heavies will be incredibly durable. That's as it should be. However, if you combine that with good range, and excellent DPS, why would you not run a heavy? It simply becomes the superior option. With 1.8 levels of toughness heavies will live through all of two to three extra bullets if they happen to be going against a weapon they have resistance towards. Truly it will be a difference maker. Let's cancel adding the new heavy suits and remove the Amarr heavy from the game, clearly they're going to be game-breakingly OP. Heavies with light weapons are not the problem. The light weapons they're using because they outclass our heavy weapon options are the problem. The people running brick tank proto logis expecting to be able to roflstomp finding themselves on an even playing field with low SP players and crying about it are the problem. Heavies with light weapons are free kills to heavies with HMG's or any type of intelligent scout inside of 30m, if you can't figure out how to kill them, sucks to be you**. Scouts and heavies have had to adapt to being nerfed into oblivion for over a year now. Now it's the medium suit/AR user's turn to have to adapt, except you're just being forced to adapt to not being the king of every situation. You people have no idea how hilarious your crying about this crap sounds.
CrotchGrab 360 The Men In The Mirror 1413	Posted - 2014.02.04 23:02:00 - [38] - Quote Viziam, Prof 5, 2x complex damage mods, charge shot, heavy won't last long. DUST VIDEOS
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1816	Posted - 2014.02.04 23:31:00 - [39] - Quote 1.8 heavies will be sporting 1500-1800 HP at proto with a DPS of over 600 and a range of just over 30 meters. And to top it off they get 15% damage resistances to certain types of weapons, which in some cases is a 15% HP buff to their main HP. Heavies will be very hard to take down and will pack one hell of a punch. In 1.8 a assault suit will sport just around 1000 HP at proto level and this is only if they are fully brick tanked, full plates and shields, but they suffer from lower DPS and no damage resistance. They only way to deal with a heavy in 1.8 is to engage them with a proto rail rifle at range. But if the heavy is using a rail also your screwed. They only suits that won't suffer much from heavies are cloaked scouts, but everything else is going to get their ass handed to them on a gold plated platter (amarr >) ) Not saying heavies are going to be super OP but they will be pretty darn close, specially the LAV heavy. On a side note a armor heavy might be able to survive an RE if he has more than 500 shield HP and a lot of armor :0 Armor and Shields are not the same!
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1830	Posted - 2014.02.04 23:36:00 - [40] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: 1.8 heavies will be sporting 1500-1800 HP at proto with a DPS of over 600 and a range of just over 30 meters. And to top it off they get 15% damage resistances to certain types of weapons, which in some cases is a 15% HP buff to their main HP. Heavies will be very hard to take down and will pack one hell of a punch. In 1.8 a assault suit will sport just around 1000 HP at proto level and this is only if they are fully brick tanked, full plates and shields, but they suffer from lower DPS and no damage resistance. They only way to deal with a heavy in 1.8 is to engage them with a proto rail rifle at range. But if the heavy is using a rail also your screwed. They only suits that won't suffer much from heavies are cloaked scouts, but everything else is going to get their ass handed to them on a gold plated platter (amarr >) ) Not saying heavies are going to be super OP but they will be pretty darn close, specially the LAV heavy. On a side note a armor heavy might be able to survive an RE if he has more than 500 shield HP and a lot of armor :0 I forsee Cloaked Scouts with Breach Shotguns becoming a very nice counter. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN 105	Posted - 2014.02.05 00:43:00 - [41] - Quote Lol everyone complaining put a heavy suit on go ahead if you truly think its OP then do it yourself. It's the only easy way to safely determine if its OP, did this with the scrambler rail and combat rifles I will be laughing as everybody runs back to their medium suits. Try it please have fun getting slaughtered.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.05 00:47:00 - [42] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: RedZer0 MK1 wrote: Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. I'd agree but there's plenty of instances where using mobility can be futile. If it was as easy as being mobile and strafing, then I wouldn't be getting my high mobility Gallente suit put to shame lately, like it has been. It only works if you can successfully flank. If they know where you are or going and are essentially going head to head with you, you're screwed. With that said, players can be smart and make sure they never get put into a situation where they'll be easily flanked...I mean they are heavies after all and their low mobility would teach them the hard way to keep a good position. In my amarr logi I win most my heavy 1v1's 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1048	Posted - 2014.02.05 01:27:00 - [43] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This entirely hypothetical scenario depends on one squad bringing nothing but heavies with light weapons. What happens when they bring even minimal logistics support with them? I thought that was what the OP was about, Heavies wolfpacking with light weapons? Assuming your squad is of the "dynamic" variety you will have a heavy or two of your own, running HMG's perhaps? logi them with some strategically placed repper hives and keep the enemy heavies at bay while the rest of your squad flanks. Medium suits can still flank correct? Or perhaps bring a dampened scout/shotgun, a solid counter to a pack of heavies, no? I cant justify arguing this point if the hard counters are being ignored and people are saying speed, flanking, hitbox, equipment, everything I said "don't matter".. that's bollocks. Quote: To clarify my own views - I do not see heavies with light weapon as a massive problem. However, with 1.8 heavies which will be tough as hell, if new heavy weapons were to equal light weapons in range and beat them in DPS there would be a problem. Lets see what happens when 1.8 goes live, until then its conjecture. Cant really ask for nerfs/buffs or game changes based on expectations of what might happen. >.> When you're dealing with a good squad of heavies with support from their teammates their weaknesses get minimized... Their speed doesn't have to be an issue as they can slowly but surely break through your perimeters. Again. I have seen this happen several times with different squads and even on decent teams. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1048	Posted - 2014.02.05 01:29:00 - [44] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: RedZer0 MK1 wrote: Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. I'd agree but there's plenty of instances where using mobility can be futile. If it was as easy as being mobile and strafing, then I wouldn't be getting my high mobility Gallente suit put to shame lately, like it has been. It only works if you can successfully flank. If they know where you are or going and are essentially going head to head with you, you're screwed. With that said, players can be smart and make sure they never get put into a situation where they'll be easily flanked...I mean they are heavies after all and their low mobility would teach them the hard way to keep a good position. In my amarr logi I win most my heavy 1v1's Now that I'm thinking about it. The Scrambler Rifle is probably the best offense. Heavies can't strafe well so with a long distance, high alpha weapon like the Amarr's Scrambler rifle you stand a better chance. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 253	Posted - 2014.02.05 01:52:00 - [45] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: NK Scout wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: RedZer0 MK1 wrote: Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. I'd agree but there's plenty of instances where using mobility can be futile. If it was as easy as being mobile and strafing, then I wouldn't be getting my high mobility Gallente suit put to shame lately, like it has been. It only works if you can successfully flank. If they know where you are or going and are essentially going head to head with you, you're screwed. With that said, players can be smart and make sure they never get put into a situation where they'll be easily flanked...I mean they are heavies after all and their low mobility would teach them the hard way to keep a good position. In my amarr logi I win most my heavy 1v1's Now that I'm thinking about it. The Scrambler Rifle is probably the best offense. Heavies can't strafe well so with a long distance, high alpha weapon like the Amarr's Scrambler rifle you stand a better chance. Its actually a ar/rr/cr 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6633	Posted - 2014.02.05 01:53:00 - [46] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Seriously... Why am I even working with Medium Frame Dropsuits, such as the assault, if the Heavy Frame Dropsuits do assaulting much better than me? I know you guys are going to respond with, "stop QQing" but honestly if you face a squad full of them or a team that has around 6 of them roaming around in a blob, you'd be singing the same tune. They're going 20/0 without much trouble and working outside of their intended roles better than the class whose roles they are performing. Oh. And let's not forget it's WAY cheaper to go this route compared to using a Medium Frame. We would have to stack a good amount of plates just to come close to their base eHP with a higher price. They can do this for way less at a base price and add on a few plates and out do us by 300+ eHp STILL at a cheaper cost. It makes me feel inadequate because my suit doesn't seem viable for the job it's supposed to be doing. Makes me think I should join in on the fun and go Heavy with a rifle but I know that's this, the ability to outperform assault units for assaulting as a sentinel unit, isn't right. I'm really asking the community here, what is the point of using Assault Dropsuits right now? Heavy Suits don't assault better. They assault in a different manner. This comes from a proto Assault and Proto Commando player. Assaults can afford to be more aggressive with their speed, fast regeneration capacity, and weapons geared abilities. I find that assaults like to get up close and personal as quickly as possible and out DPS their enemies. Commando's on the other hand have to play more conservatively. They have lower speed, lower regenerative capacity, but far more fire power. They have to rely on longer range fire power to best enemies, using their better HP values to outlast their foes. Heavies are even slower. Less mobile, often slower regenerative capacity but the capacity to fit the highest buffers and largest guns. Heavy assaults are slower but hit harder, assault suit rushes can be over quickly, but a decent assault suit user can dart in and out of danger, regen if possible, and constantly be mobile, making lighting assaults wherever and whenever possible. Neither is better of worse. I've seen either heavy squads crumble under concentrated ScR fire, assault mobs mown down by a single heavy, or where a 4 man mob appears to be everywhere at once..... "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Shiruba Ryou 202	Posted - 2014.02.05 01:55:00 - [47] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Will there be squads of heavies? ( I have never seen one). Warriors INC. back in chromosome did Full Heavy squads. Back when the HMG could shred you at 60-70m. So glad I never have to go through those Corp matches again shiver "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6633	Posted - 2014.02.05 01:58:00 - [48] - Quote Shiruba Ryou wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Will there be squads of heavies? ( I have never seen one). Warriors INC. back in chromosome did Full Heavy squads. Back when the HMG could shred you at 60-70m. So glad I never have to go through those Corp matches again shiver You haven't seen the 900% increase in 6 man Commando teams have you? "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 675	Posted - 2014.02.05 04:10:00 - [49] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: ER-Bullitt wrote: equipment, speed, hitbox. Say it with me now equipment, speed, hitbox equipment, speed, hitbox .... Equipment. Speed. Hitbox. Equipment doesn't matter. They hold points with their standard equipment. While they can work with a logi to stack more eHP, they can essentially just use Complex Repair to boost their defenses when alone. The only other issue I'd imagine they would have is ammo but then everyone has that issue and it's not fair to use as an excuse. Speed doesn't mean much either. They're meant to absorb damage. If they can get into a range that allows good enough DPS they're more likely to win. Hitbox doesn't matter much because again, they're meant to absorb damage. So because sentinels are finally doing their job and some people are abusing that in pubs, we should cripple- err 'rebalance' it correct? That's like saying an Assault has an equipment, and can throw an uplink down. So to fix this equipment usage we need to remove their Pg/cpu. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) Selling SP: 10k SP per 100k ISK.
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS 30	Posted - 2014.02.05 04:21:00 - [50] - Quote heavy should be slower in turning speed, so scout can run faster and don't need to take shots from them, BTW, heavys are not op, I kill sentinels suits with a mit AR and mit SP( I put many Skill Point in it lol) *Real tanker dies with their tanks!*

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.02.05 04:47:00 - [51] - Quote ._. I'm not here to QQ about the heavy suit. Only thing I QQ about how weak the AR is in comparison to other rifles lol... No seriously. My goal for this thread was to hear responses. I legitimately think that because of TTK differences and then some the suit is outperforming the assault at its job. It's to my belief that 1.8 could fix it with assaults being given hp bonuses but I'm not sure of course. Better to argue about this pre patch then after and so. What I believe could assist in actually making a difference outside of the 1.8 updates? Weapon potential. Rail Rifles are the most popular combination because it shoots at long distance and can hurt even in CQC. Combat Rifle is effective but not as versatile as the RR is. A combination of Hp buffs for Assaults and rifle balances and it would work. I don't argue for a Heavy nerf. That wouldn't make sense. My OP wasn't bias towards that but instead it questioned why should I use an assault over a heavy. I've been advocating for heavies when they needed their most recent buff. I'm still happy to hear about resistance modules. People are being too quick and emotional about my post when I'm merely trying to have a reasonable discussion. Now with that being said, I'm at least happy this thread has people talking. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
WolfeXXVII NECROM0NGERS 3	Posted - 2014.02.05 04:50:00 - [52] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Seriously... Why am I even working with Medium Frame Dropsuits, such as the assault, if the Heavy Frame Dropsuits do assaulting much better than me? I know you guys are going to respond with, "stop QQing" but honestly if you face a squad full of them or a team that has around 6 of them roaming around in a blob, you'd be singing the same tune. They're going 20/0 without much trouble and working outside of their intended roles better than the class whose roles they are performing. Oh. And let's not forget it's WAY cheaper to go this route compared to using a Medium Frame. We would have to stack a good amount of plates just to come close to their base eHP with a higher price. They can do this for way less at a base price and add on a few plates and out do us by 300+ eHp STILL at a cheaper cost. It makes me feel inadequate because my suit doesn't seem viable for the job it's supposed to be doing. Makes me think I should join in on the fun and go Heavy with a rifle but I know that's this, the ability to outperform assault units for assaulting as a sentinel unit, isn't right. I'm really asking the community here, what is the point of using Assault Dropsuits right now? the real reason assault suits are better is because although they are weaker they are also a lot harder to hit even with aim assist for a heavy I can melt it just as fast as an assault but for the heavy I don't even use iron sights because they are so darn easy to hit. im a proto in every class and assaults in my opinion are way better than heavies simply because they are half as wide as the assault suits against the same people on the same map and I can go from 30/2(sentinel ak.0) to 43/3(assault mk.0) with an a assault suit using the same weaponthe bk42 gk.0 scout 4 the win Optimization 5 in 7 weapons and counting,SP from all characters:-113,895,000- CLOSED BETA VET.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.02.05 04:55:00 - [53] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: ._. I'm not here to QQ about the heavy suit. Only thing I QQ about how weak the AR is in comparison to other rifles lol... No seriously. My goal for this thread was to hear responses. I legitimately think that because of TTK differences and then some the suit is outperforming the assault at its job. It's to my belief that 1.8 could fix it with assaults being given hp bonuses but I'm not sure of course. Better to argue about this pre patch then after and so. What I believe could assist in actually making a difference outside of the 1.8 updates? Weapon potential. Rail Rifles are the most popular combination because it shoots at long distance and can hurt even in CQC. Combat Rifle is effective but not as versatile as the RR is. A combination of Hp buffs for Assaults and rifle balances and it would work. I don't argue for a Heavy nerf. That wouldn't make sense. My OP wasn't bias towards that but instead it questioned why should I use an assault over a heavy. I've been advocating for heavies when they needed their most recent buff. I'm still happy to hear about resistance modules. People are being too quick and emotional about my post when I'm merely trying to have a reasonable discussion. Now with that being said, I'm at least happy this thread has people talking. Edit: before someone **** posts about me saving face or some crap, realize I have no reason to do so. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.02.05 05:10:00 - [54] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: Seriously... Why am I even working with Medium Frame Dropsuits, such as the assault, if the Heavy Frame Dropsuits do assaulting much better than me? I know you guys are going to respond with, "stop QQing" but honestly if you face a squad full of them or a team that has around 6 of them roaming around in a blob, you'd be singing the same tune. They're going 20/0 without much trouble and working outside of their intended roles better than the class whose roles they are performing. Oh. And let's not forget it's WAY cheaper to go this route compared to using a Medium Frame. We would have to stack a good amount of plates just to come close to their base eHP with a higher price. They can do this for way less at a base price and add on a few plates and out do us by 300+ eHp STILL at a cheaper cost. It makes me feel inadequate because my suit doesn't seem viable for the job it's supposed to be doing. Makes me think I should join in on the fun and go Heavy with a rifle but I know that's this, the ability to outperform assault units for assaulting as a sentinel unit, isn't right. I'm really asking the community here, what is the point of using Assault Dropsuits right now? Heavy Suits don't assault better. They assault in a different manner. This comes from a proto Assault and Proto Commando player. Assaults can afford to be more aggressive with their speed, fast regeneration capacity, and weapons geared abilities. I find that assaults like to get up close and personal as quickly as possible and out DPS their enemies. Commando's on the other hand have to play more conservatively. They have lower speed, lower regenerative capacity, but far more fire power. They have to rely on longer range fire power to best enemies, using their better HP values to outlast their foes. Heavies are even slower. Less mobile, often slower regenerative capacity but the capacity to fit the highest buffers and largest guns. Heavy assaults are slower but hit harder, assault suit rushes can be over quickly, but a decent assault suit user can dart in and out of danger, regen if possible, and constantly be mobile, making lighting assaults wherever and whenever possible. Neither is better of worse. I've seen either heavy squads crumble under concentrated ScR fire, assault mobs mown down by a single heavy, or where a 4 man mob appears to be everywhere at once..... D: I'm not talking about Commandos though. They have a higher price and stuff, so even if they were as effective as what I'm seeing with these sentinels right now, I'd be okay since you guys put a lot into them. But overall I agree with you on the Sentinel vs Assault thing. If Mass Drivers came back, imo, there would really be a definite line between the two choices. Heavies wouldn't be able to dodge the splash like Assaults would. As it is now though sentinels with rifles seem like a ripe idea for formation tactics. Having them swarm on small compact areas with rifles and slaying any reds with Logis constantly feeding them ammo and armor repair...Rinse and repeat...Give them transport in the form of dropships or LAVs... "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 484	Posted - 2014.02.05 05:21:00 - [55] - Quote Mobilitiy and quick responsiveness to objectives and changes situations are what wins battrles,also equipment.heavies cant do that on their own and are very limited in that regard comepared to the other frames. A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.02.05 15:55:00 - [56] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: Mobilitiy and quick responsiveness to objectives and changes situations are what wins battrles,also equipment.heavies cant do that on their own and are very limited in that regard comepared to the other frames. I can take the first answer but the second doesn't make sense. Heavies rely on Logi's in the first place. More than likely there's a nano hive around an area to assist them and a Logi as well to heal them, at least from my experiences. Of course you can't just run and gun but then you can't do that even with an assault. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2392	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:05:00 - [57] - Quote OP thinks heavys are better at assaulting? lolno On open maps at a heavy im point defence and rarely move around because if i move into the open i get mowed down, im not quick enough to move across open ground either and my hitbox is bigger and im an easy target for snipers, i need a LAV to move around In CQC maps im ideal in corridors but to make the most out of it i need a logi repping me and also laying down nanohives so i can reload I can use a light weapon but up close is my strong suit and its better to use a HMG to pummel anyone who gets close enough, if i used a duvolle i spend more time reloading but also i have to be away at distance to make the most of it Assaults move from point to [oint hit and run tactics but also have the ability to stick around if needed and do not have to rely on logis unlike heavys Intelligence is OP
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:09:00 - [58] - Quote Tried it out today. Confirmed some things and negated others. You don't need a Logi if you have a complex armor rep. With 500 or so shield, you can easily regenerate enough outside of battle time to build a good defense while your armor reps. Mind you, I'm only using the militia variant. Scans don't matter as heavies are pretty easy to track and flank in many situations. With that said, a heavy can still absorb damage. The big changer is how you manage your recovery as a heavy, if you took significant damage. If you can manage that well on your own, e.g. Holding good cover, you're in the advantage. - Heavies mobility is a big issue in the grand scheme of things but they have the ability to push. What confuses the hell outta me is how do the sentinels I play against get to distant objective, i.e. Not in a cluster/center point, with swiftly and continuously. I had trouble getting to a place with no cover without really getting the hurt, as it should be, but I swear it seems as if others can do the impossible. It's not a single rifle that works well with the suit. It's varies on the user. I suck at Rail Rifles and because so I'm not good at even hitting a barn door. Give me an assault rifle and I'll get to business, which I did. Still doesn't take away the fact that with the assistance of RRs in competent hands, it would be a powerful force. I also realized how much I suck at low mobility suits, as I'm honestly a scout at heart. That's my personal reason for not using em but honestly, I could still die less with these on. Also, I could die the same amount of times but still have a cheaper fit but that's not really an issue if other things are changed, like what's coming in 1.8. - Overall I have my reasons to not use the suit but it still seems to be the best suit to use at certain times with the right rifle. 1v1s become extremely easier unless it's another heavy you're going against. Edit: also... I still need to figure out htf some heavies pull off miraculous feats but meh. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Billi Gene 455	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:19:00 - [59] - Quote apologies, but i didnt read the entire thread: there seems to be some confusion over the word "assault". as an example: I have never been assaulted by a slimy slow moving slug.... demeaned and possibly violated but never assaulted. if an entire team of heavies were to "assault" an open air objective, i'd think it less an assault and more a siege....if you are able to get my drift? Heavies attacking interior objectives is a case of forced entry.... Speed is the ability to react meaningfully. It is the greatest differential, in terms of user experience or handling, when comparing the Heavy to any other suit. feel free to quibble over my quibble.... but lets be honest: the heavy suit is not "doing the Assault suit role better than an Assault suit can!!1!!!!!1!" Pedant, Ape, Troll. My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
TheDarthMa94 The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 80	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:13:00 - [60] - Quote The bigger they are the harder they fall....... ........but the bigger they are the easier the target Sith Apprentice and Director of NAO "What skills? Its the connection bro!"

D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1463	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:20:00 - [61] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Assaults are supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades class. Tougher than light frames, yet weaker than heavies. Faster than heavies, yet slower than lights. More slots allow for more versatility, and balanced stats make them excellent troopers on the battlefield. A good squad of assaults might not be able to have an offensive presence as much as a squad of heavies/commando's, but they will be far more versatile instead, able to do almost anything on the battlefield. TL;DR A good assault will be able to have more variations of their fits. With lots of slots and good all around stats, they can have a fit for everything. Less specialization, but nobody can do as much as they can at a moments notice. ^^amen. finally someone with good sense. o7 Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1463	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:27:00 - [62] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: RedZer0 MK1 wrote: Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. I'd agree but there's plenty of instances where using mobility can be futile. If it was as easy as being mobile and strafing, then I wouldn't be getting my high mobility Gallente suit put to shame lately, like it has been. It only works if you can successfully flank. If they know where you are or going and are essentially going head to head with you, you're screwed. With that said, players can be smart and make sure they never get put into a situation where they'll be easily flanked...I mean they are heavies after all and their low mobility would teach them the hard way to keep a good position. well if you think thats bad about speed then look at the entire minmatar race. Our medium frames are slightly faster (movement speed is .3m/s higher) than the other frames but significantly weaker. making the who speed tanking philosophy meaningless... I mean galente suits now are pretty much just as fast but with 2x the ehp. heavy frames are good at defending objectives and securing locations anywhere on the map. their primary task however is protectingt he squad they are with. assault suits are great at moving in and assualting objectives. assualting doesnt mean "hey everybody lets all charge through this one door and run for the objective". it means "lets flank these heavies and reposition before they can react". balance between defense and offense. heavies however are vulnerable when moving between locations and through attrition. moving out in the open they cant protect themselves and without logi support they run out of equipment, have no drop uplinks, ammo, etc. Also, dnt forget ARs can still rip through a heavy using an HMG Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1050	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:39:00 - [63] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Assaults are supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades class. Tougher than light frames, yet weaker than heavies. Faster than heavies, yet slower than lights. More slots allow for more versatility, and balanced stats make them excellent troopers on the battlefield. A good squad of assaults might not be able to have an offensive presence as much as a squad of heavies/commando's, but they will be far more versatile instead, able to do almost anything on the battlefield. TL;DR A good assault will be able to have more variations of their fits. With lots of slots and good all around stats, they can have a fit for everything. Less specialization, but nobody can do as much as they can at a moments notice. +1 I didn't even see the post but some of the best logic in the thread going down. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 680	Posted - 2014.02.05 19:58:00 - [64] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Because an assault can stealth tank. They can use scanners, they can throw remotes. Also heavies are terrible at dodging fire. Get caught 20m away from a crate by a RR? Better kill that bastard quick. Heavies also require a Logistics, or run a commando, sacrifice a weapon for a Ishy triage hive. Or yknow... Run Amarr assault/logi and have 20x the range, respectable regen and similar HP cieling. Equipment slots mean you can self supply Ammo, reps, scans, and demolitions. Assaults can't stealth tank. :< That's BS. As far as stealth tanking goes Scouts > Logis > Assaults > Sentinels/Commandos. Heavies might be terrible at dodging fire but they are great at absorbing it, that's their intended role. Nothing actually wrong with that because that's what they're all about. With a rifle they can shoot you at a distance while absorbing damage. They don't need a logi if the DPS doesn't kill them and they have Complex Reps. With their 3 low slots, they can stack 18.75 repair rate. Don't need much of a change outside of that. You do realize that an assault with lv5 dampening dodges a standard scanner(stealth) with 1 complex damp you dodge the enhanced scanner. Add another enhanced and you dodge the 28.(SUPER ******* STEALTH) Speed does matter, as assaults move 2 meters faster. Ever try playing scout and NEVER sprinting? That base movement speed isn't going to save you. The sprint is. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) Selling SP: 10k SP per 100k ISK.


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