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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1048
   |
Posted - 2014.02.04 22:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Scalesdini wrote:Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as **** light weapons they're using.
This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending.
WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players.
Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable.
Go back and read my responses to the same argument
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Scalesdini
BlackWater Liquidations
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
312
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Posted - 2014.02.04 22:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Scalesdini wrote:Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as **** light weapons they're using.
This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending.
WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players.
Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable. I have no valid counterpoint, so I'm going to imply you didn't read the thread already
FTFY |
Termin8ter
The Enclave Syndicate
Dark Taboo
0
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Posted - 2014.02.04 22:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
Seriously try something before you hate on it because you think heavies are overpowered but they are not. All i run is heavy and i can tell you that you are SO slow any open space against any other suit is death. Try using a militia heavy with a complex damage mod, complex rep and WHAT EVER gun you want . You will see why i say they are not op. Not to mention a heavy cant hold an equipment. Also do not try to say comandos are the threat because at the moment comandos are a joke. You can make a light weapon on a heavy work but you have to stay right next to cover btw. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
8927
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 22:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Scalesdini wrote:Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as **** light weapons they're using.
This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending.
WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players.
Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable.
This is not about heavies 'not being outclassed by everything else in every single situation'. They were almost like that once, but with 1.8 levels of toughness heavies will be incredibly durable. That's as it should be. However, if you combine that with good range, and excellent DPS, why would you not run a heavy? It simply becomes the superior option.
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
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ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
915
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Posted - 2014.02.04 22:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
This entirely hypothetical scenario depends on one squad bringing nothing but heavies with light weapons.
What happens when they bring even minimal logistics support with them?
I thought that was what the OP was about, Heavies wolfpacking with light weapons?  Assuming your squad is of the "dynamic" variety you will have a heavy or two of your own, running HMG's perhaps? logi them with some strategically placed repper hives and keep the enemy heavies at bay while the rest of your squad flanks. Medium suits can still flank correct? Or perhaps bring a dampened scout/shotgun, a solid counter to a pack of heavies, no? I cant justify arguing this point if the hard counters are being ignored and people are saying speed, flanking, hitbox, equipment, everything I said "don't matter".. that's bollocks.
Quote:
To clarify my own views - I do not see heavies with light weapon as a massive problem. However, with 1.8 heavies which will be tough as hell, if new heavy weapons were to equal light weapons in range and beat them in DPS there would be a problem.
Lets see what happens when 1.8 goes live, until then its conjecture. Cant really ask for nerfs/buffs or game changes based on expectations of what might happen. |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1830
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 22:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Termin8ter wrote:Seriously try something before you hate on it because you think heavies are overpowered but they are not. All i run is heavy and i can tell you that you are SO slow any open space against any other suit is death. Try using a militia heavy with a complex damage mod, complex rep and WHAT EVER gun you want . You will see why i say they are not op. Not to mention a heavy cant hold an equipment. Also do not try to say comandos are the threat because at the moment comandos are a joke. You can make a light weapon on a heavy work but you have to stay right next to cover btw.
Yeah but peoples experience differ.
I walk round with a scrambler pistol, I just stand there don't move and mow down Assault Suits.
They think they have me because my main is a forge, but it's quite the opposite.
Heavies are gonna have places they will be awsome, but they still need counters like any other suit.
I saw a heavy with logi support go 67-1 the other day, using a HMG, I killed him with a shotgun, after jumping over his head, headshotting his logi and headshotting him twoce. At point blank.
Do you not think if a Scout Managed to get that close, that prehaps a breach shotgun should capable of dispatching them with ease?
Heavies can now survive Direct Forge Gun hits, without logi support. They can take as much as 2 RE charges (3 by 1.8).
The heavies are very quickly heading towards being buffed to oblivion, like the tanks were, unless CCP makes the Breach Shotgun the HardCounter, any map with Sockets will end up as a Heavies Playground.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Scalesdini
BlackWater Liquidations
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
313
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Posted - 2014.02.04 23:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Scalesdini wrote:Clearly it's the heavy suit that's the problem, not the OP as **** light weapons they're using.
This reminds me of what happened to heavies after the E3 build. The heavy suit was fine, but the HMG was ridiculous. So CCP nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the heavy suit while leaving the HMG alone basically, then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and nerfed the HMG, then nerfed it more for good measure. Heavies are finally getting back to where they're not outclassed by everything else in every single situation, and people are crying like the world is ending.
WAAH, WAAH. I CAN'T 1V1 A HEAVY WHILE STANDING IN HIS LINE OF FIRE WITH MY ASSAULT SUIT. This is why Dust is such an awful game that panders to AA using 360yoloscannerswag type players.
Hell, we haven't even seen 1.8 heavies yet and people are whining about how OP they're going to be. It's adorable. This is not about heavies 'not being outclassed by everything else in every single situation'. They were almost like that once, but with 1.8 levels of toughness heavies will be incredibly durable. That's as it should be. However, if you combine that with good range, and excellent DPS, why would you not run a heavy? It simply becomes the superior option.
With 1.8 levels of toughness heavies will live through all of two to three extra bullets if they happen to be going against a weapon they have resistance towards. Truly it will be a difference maker. Let's cancel adding the new heavy suits and remove the Amarr heavy from the game, clearly they're going to be game-breakingly OP.
Heavies with light weapons are not the problem. The light weapons they're using because they outclass our heavy weapon options are the problem. The people running brick tank proto logis expecting to be able to roflstomp finding themselves on an even playing field with low SP players and crying about it are the problem. Heavies with light weapons are free kills to heavies with HMG's or any type of intelligent scout inside of 30m, if you can't figure out how to kill them, sucks to be you.
Scouts and heavies have had to adapt to being nerfed into oblivion for over a year now. Now it's the medium suit/AR user's turn to have to adapt, except you're just being forced to adapt to not being the king of every situation. You people have no idea how hilarious your crying about this crap sounds. |
CrotchGrab 360
The Men In The Mirror
1413
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 23:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Viziam, Prof 5, 2x complex damage mods, charge shot, heavy won't last long.
DUST VIDEOS
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
1816
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Posted - 2014.02.04 23:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
1.8 heavies will be sporting 1500-1800 HP at proto with a DPS of over 600 and a range of just over 30 meters. And to top it off they get 15% damage resistances to certain types of weapons, which in some cases is a 15% HP buff to their main HP. Heavies will be very hard to take down and will pack one hell of a punch.
In 1.8 a assault suit will sport just around 1000 HP at proto level and this is only if they are fully brick tanked, full plates and shields, but they suffer from lower DPS and no damage resistance. They only way to deal with a heavy in 1.8 is to engage them with a proto rail rifle at range. But if the heavy is using a rail also your screwed.
They only suits that won't suffer much from heavies are cloaked scouts, but everything else is going to get their ass handed to them on a gold plated platter (amarr >) )
Not saying heavies are going to be super OP but they will be pretty darn close, specially the LAV heavy. On a side note a armor heavy might be able to survive an RE if he has more than 500 shield HP and a lot of armor :0
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1830
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 23:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:1.8 heavies will be sporting 1500-1800 HP at proto with a DPS of over 600 and a range of just over 30 meters. And to top it off they get 15% damage resistances to certain types of weapons, which in some cases is a 15% HP buff to their main HP. Heavies will be very hard to take down and will pack one hell of a punch.
In 1.8 a assault suit will sport just around 1000 HP at proto level and this is only if they are fully brick tanked, full plates and shields, but they suffer from lower DPS and no damage resistance. They only way to deal with a heavy in 1.8 is to engage them with a proto rail rifle at range. But if the heavy is using a rail also your screwed.
They only suits that won't suffer much from heavies are cloaked scouts, but everything else is going to get their ass handed to them on a gold plated platter (amarr >) )
Not saying heavies are going to be super OP but they will be pretty darn close, specially the LAV heavy. On a side note a armor heavy might be able to survive an RE if he has more than 500 shield HP and a lot of armor :0
I forsee Cloaked Scouts with Breach Shotguns becoming a very nice counter.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN
105
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Posted - 2014.02.05 00:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lol everyone complaining put a heavy suit on go ahead if you truly think its OP then do it yourself. It's the only easy way to safely determine if its OP, did this with the scrambler rail and combat rifles I will be laughing as everybody runs back to their medium suits. Try it please have fun getting slaughtered. |
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
251
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 00:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. I'd agree but there's plenty of instances where using mobility can be futile. If it was as easy as being mobile and strafing, then I wouldn't be getting my high mobility Gallente suit put to shame lately, like it has been. It only works if you can successfully flank. If they know where you are or going and are essentially going head to head with you, you're screwed. With that said, players can be smart and make sure they never get put into a situation where they'll be easily flanked...I mean they are heavies after all and their low mobility would teach them the hard way to keep a good position.
In my amarr logi I win most my heavy 1v1's
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1048
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 01:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
ER-Bullitt wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
This entirely hypothetical scenario depends on one squad bringing nothing but heavies with light weapons.
What happens when they bring even minimal logistics support with them?
I thought that was what the OP was about, Heavies wolfpacking with light weapons? Assuming your squad is of the "dynamic" variety you will have a heavy or two of your own, running HMG's perhaps? logi them with some strategically placed repper hives and keep the enemy heavies at bay while the rest of your squad flanks. Medium suits can still flank correct? Or perhaps bring a dampened scout/shotgun, a solid counter to a pack of heavies, no? I cant justify arguing this point if the hard counters are being ignored and people are saying speed, flanking, hitbox, equipment, everything I said "don't matter".. that's bollocks. Quote:
To clarify my own views - I do not see heavies with light weapon as a massive problem. However, with 1.8 heavies which will be tough as hell, if new heavy weapons were to equal light weapons in range and beat them in DPS there would be a problem.
Lets see what happens when 1.8 goes live, until then its conjecture. Cant really ask for nerfs/buffs or game changes based on expectations of what might happen.
>.>
When you're dealing with a good squad of heavies with support from their teammates their weaknesses get minimized... Their speed doesn't have to be an issue as they can slowly but surely break through your perimeters. Again. I have seen this happen several times with different squads and even on decent teams.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1048
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 01:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. I'd agree but there's plenty of instances where using mobility can be futile. If it was as easy as being mobile and strafing, then I wouldn't be getting my high mobility Gallente suit put to shame lately, like it has been. It only works if you can successfully flank. If they know where you are or going and are essentially going head to head with you, you're screwed. With that said, players can be smart and make sure they never get put into a situation where they'll be easily flanked...I mean they are heavies after all and their low mobility would teach them the hard way to keep a good position. In my amarr logi I win most my heavy 1v1's
Now that I'm thinking about it. The Scrambler Rifle is probably the best offense. Heavies can't strafe well so with a long distance, high alpha weapon like the Amarr's Scrambler rifle you stand a better chance.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
253
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 01:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:NK Scout wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Speed. People underestimate its application. Yes, it can be annoying dealing with a heavy that has the same range as you, but he wont have the mobilty. Hit and run, and if all else fails RE. I'd agree but there's plenty of instances where using mobility can be futile. If it was as easy as being mobile and strafing, then I wouldn't be getting my high mobility Gallente suit put to shame lately, like it has been. It only works if you can successfully flank. If they know where you are or going and are essentially going head to head with you, you're screwed. With that said, players can be smart and make sure they never get put into a situation where they'll be easily flanked...I mean they are heavies after all and their low mobility would teach them the hard way to keep a good position. In my amarr logi I win most my heavy 1v1's Now that I'm thinking about it. The Scrambler Rifle is probably the best offense. Heavies can't strafe well so with a long distance, high alpha weapon like the Amarr's Scrambler rifle you stand a better chance.
Its actually a ar/rr/cr
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
6633
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 01:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Seriously...  Why am I even working with Medium Frame Dropsuits, such as the assault, if the Heavy Frame Dropsuits do assaulting much better than me? I know you guys are going to respond with, "stop QQing" but honestly if you face a squad full of them or a team that has around 6 of them roaming around in a blob, you'd be singing the same tune. They're going 20/0 without much trouble and working outside of their intended roles better than the class whose roles they are performing. Oh. And let's not forget it's WAY cheaper to go this route compared to using a Medium Frame. We would have to stack a good amount of plates just to come close to their base eHP with a higher price. They can do this for way less at a base price and add on a few plates and out do us by 300+ eHp STILL at a cheaper cost. It makes me feel inadequate because my suit doesn't seem viable for the job it's supposed to be doing. Makes me think I should join in on the fun and go Heavy with a rifle but I know that's this, the ability to outperform assault units for assaulting as a sentinel unit, isn't right. I'm really asking the community here, what is the point of using Assault Dropsuits right now?
Heavy Suits don't assault better. They assault in a different manner. This comes from a proto Assault and Proto Commando player.
Assaults can afford to be more aggressive with their speed, fast regeneration capacity, and weapons geared abilities. I find that assaults like to get up close and personal as quickly as possible and out DPS their enemies.
Commando's on the other hand have to play more conservatively. They have lower speed, lower regenerative capacity, but far more fire power. They have to rely on longer range fire power to best enemies, using their better HP values to outlast their foes.
Heavies are even slower. Less mobile, often slower regenerative capacity but the capacity to fit the highest buffers and largest guns.
Heavy assaults are slower but hit harder, assault suit rushes can be over quickly, but a decent assault suit user can dart in and out of danger, regen if possible, and constantly be mobile, making lighting assaults wherever and whenever possible. Neither is better of worse.
I've seen either heavy squads crumble under concentrated ScR fire, assault mobs mown down by a single heavy, or where a 4 man mob appears to be everywhere at once.....
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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Shiruba Ryou
202
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Posted - 2014.02.05 01:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Will there be squads of heavies? ( I have never seen one).
Warriors INC. back in chromosome did Full Heavy squads. Back when the HMG could shred you at 60-70m. So glad I never have to go through those Corp matches again *shiver*
"Not to worry. The cards say you loved it."
- Ryoutoshi
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
6633
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 01:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
Shiruba Ryou wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Will there be squads of heavies? ( I have never seen one). Warriors INC. back in chromosome did Full Heavy squads. Back when the HMG could shred you at 60-70m. So glad I never have to go through those Corp matches again *shiver*
You haven't seen the 900% increase in 6 man Commando teams have you?
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
675
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:ER-Bullitt wrote:equipment, speed, hitbox.
Say it with me now
equipment, speed, hitbox
equipment, speed, hitbox
.... Equipment. Speed. Hitbox. Equipment doesn't matter. They hold points with their standard equipment. While they can work with a logi to stack more eHP, they can essentially just use Complex Repair to boost their defenses when alone. The only other issue I'd imagine they would have is ammo but then everyone has that issue and it's not fair to use as an excuse. Speed doesn't mean much either. They're meant to absorb damage. If they can get into a range that allows good enough DPS they're more likely to win. Hitbox doesn't matter much because again, they're meant to absorb damage.
So because sentinels are finally doing their job and some people are abusing that in pubs, we should cripple- err 'rebalance' it correct?
That's like saying an Assault has an equipment, and can throw an uplink down. So to fix this equipment usage we need to remove their Pg/cpu.
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
Selling SP: 10k SP per 100k ISK.
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thomas mak
STRONG-ARMED BANDITS
30
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
heavy should be slower in turning speed, so scout can run faster and don't need to take shots from them,
BTW, heavys are not op, I kill sentinels suits with a mit AR and mit SP( I put many Skill Point in it lol)
Real tanker dies with their tanks!
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1049
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
._. I'm not here to QQ about the heavy suit. Only thing I QQ about how weak the AR is in comparison to other rifles lol... No seriously.
My goal for this thread was to hear responses. I legitimately think that because of TTK differences and then some the suit is outperforming the assault at its job. It's to my belief that 1.8 could fix it with assaults being given hp bonuses but I'm not sure of course. Better to argue about this pre patch then after and so.
What I believe could assist in actually making a difference outside of the 1.8 updates? Weapon potential. Rail Rifles are the most popular combination because it shoots at long distance and can hurt even in CQC. Combat Rifle is effective but not as versatile as the RR is. A combination of Hp buffs for Assaults and rifle balances and it would work.
I don't argue for a Heavy nerf. That wouldn't make sense. My OP wasn't bias towards that but instead it questioned why should I use an assault over a heavy. I've been advocating for heavies when they needed their most recent buff. I'm still happy to hear about resistance modules. People are being too quick and emotional about my post when I'm merely trying to have a reasonable discussion. Now with that being said, I'm at least happy this thread has people talking.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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WolfeXXVII
NECROM0NGERS
3
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Seriously... Why am I even working with Medium Frame Dropsuits, such as the assault, if the Heavy Frame Dropsuits do assaulting much better than me? I know you guys are going to respond with, "stop QQing" but honestly if you face a squad full of them or a team that has around 6 of them roaming around in a blob, you'd be singing the same tune. They're going 20/0 without much trouble and working outside of their intended roles better than the class whose roles they are performing. Oh. And let's not forget it's WAY cheaper to go this route compared to using a Medium Frame. We would have to stack a good amount of plates just to come close to their base eHP with a higher price. They can do this for way less at a base price and add on a few plates and out do us by 300+ eHp STILL at a cheaper cost. It makes me feel inadequate because my suit doesn't seem viable for the job it's supposed to be doing. Makes me think I should join in on the fun and go Heavy with a rifle but I know that's this, the ability to outperform assault units for assaulting as a sentinel unit, isn't right. I'm really asking the community here, what is the point of using Assault Dropsuits right now?
the real reason assault suits are better is because although they are weaker they are also a lot harder to hit even with aim assist for a heavy I can melt it just as fast as an assault but for the heavy I don't even use iron sights because they are so darn easy to hit. im a proto in every class and assaults in my opinion are way better than heavies simply because they are half as wide as the assault suits against the same people on the same map and I can go from 30/2(sentinel ak.0) to 43/3(assault mk.0) with an a assault suit using the same weapon*the bk42*
gk.0 scout 4 the win
Optimization 5 in 7 weapons and counting,SP from all characters:-113,895,000-
CLOSED BETA VET.
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1049
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:._. I'm not here to QQ about the heavy suit. Only thing I QQ about how weak the AR is in comparison to other rifles lol... No seriously.
My goal for this thread was to hear responses. I legitimately think that because of TTK differences and then some the suit is outperforming the assault at its job. It's to my belief that 1.8 could fix it with assaults being given hp bonuses but I'm not sure of course. Better to argue about this pre patch then after and so.
What I believe could assist in actually making a difference outside of the 1.8 updates? Weapon potential. Rail Rifles are the most popular combination because it shoots at long distance and can hurt even in CQC. Combat Rifle is effective but not as versatile as the RR is. A combination of Hp buffs for Assaults and rifle balances and it would work.
I don't argue for a Heavy nerf. That wouldn't make sense. My OP wasn't bias towards that but instead it questioned why should I use an assault over a heavy. I've been advocating for heavies when they needed their most recent buff. I'm still happy to hear about resistance modules. People are being too quick and emotional about my post when I'm merely trying to have a reasonable discussion. Now with that being said, I'm at least happy this thread has people talking.
Edit: before someone **** posts about me saving face or some crap, realize I have no reason to do so.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1049
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Posted - 2014.02.05 05:10:00 -
[54] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:Seriously... Why am I even working with Medium Frame Dropsuits, such as the assault, if the Heavy Frame Dropsuits do assaulting much better than me? I know you guys are going to respond with, "stop QQing" but honestly if you face a squad full of them or a team that has around 6 of them roaming around in a blob, you'd be singing the same tune. They're going 20/0 without much trouble and working outside of their intended roles better than the class whose roles they are performing. Oh. And let's not forget it's WAY cheaper to go this route compared to using a Medium Frame. We would have to stack a good amount of plates just to come close to their base eHP with a higher price. They can do this for way less at a base price and add on a few plates and out do us by 300+ eHp STILL at a cheaper cost. It makes me feel inadequate because my suit doesn't seem viable for the job it's supposed to be doing. Makes me think I should join in on the fun and go Heavy with a rifle but I know that's this, the ability to outperform assault units for assaulting as a sentinel unit, isn't right. I'm really asking the community here, what is the point of using Assault Dropsuits right now? Heavy Suits don't assault better. They assault in a different manner. This comes from a proto Assault and Proto Commando player. Assaults can afford to be more aggressive with their speed, fast regeneration capacity, and weapons geared abilities. I find that assaults like to get up close and personal as quickly as possible and out DPS their enemies. Commando's on the other hand have to play more conservatively. They have lower speed, lower regenerative capacity, but far more fire power. They have to rely on longer range fire power to best enemies, using their better HP values to outlast their foes. Heavies are even slower. Less mobile, often slower regenerative capacity but the capacity to fit the highest buffers and largest guns. Heavy assaults are slower but hit harder, assault suit rushes can be over quickly, but a decent assault suit user can dart in and out of danger, regen if possible, and constantly be mobile, making lighting assaults wherever and whenever possible. Neither is better of worse. I've seen either heavy squads crumble under concentrated ScR fire, assault mobs mown down by a single heavy, or where a 4 man mob appears to be everywhere at once.....
D: I'm not talking about Commandos though. They have a higher price and stuff, so even if they were as effective as what I'm seeing with these sentinels right now, I'd be okay since you guys put a lot into them.
But overall I agree with you on the Sentinel vs Assault thing. If Mass Drivers came back, imo, there would really be a definite line between the two choices. Heavies wouldn't be able to dodge the splash like Assaults would. As it is now though sentinels with rifles seem like a ripe idea for formation tactics. Having them swarm on small compact areas with rifles and slaying any reds with Logis constantly feeding them ammo and armor repair...Rinse and repeat...Give them transport in the form of dropships or LAVs...
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
484
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Posted - 2014.02.05 05:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mobilitiy and quick responsiveness to objectives and changes situations are what wins battrles,also equipment.heavies cant do that on their own and are very limited in that regard comepared to the other frames.
A strange game.
The only winning move is
not to play.
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1049
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:Mobilitiy and quick responsiveness to objectives and changes situations are what wins battrles,also equipment.heavies cant do that on their own and are very limited in that regard comepared to the other frames.
I can take the first answer but the second doesn't make sense. Heavies rely on Logi's in the first place. More than likely there's a nano hive around an area to assist them and a Logi as well to heal them, at least from my experiences. Of course you can't just run and gun but then you can't do that even with an assault.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2392
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
OP thinks heavys are better at assaulting?
lolno
On open maps at a heavy im point defence and rarely move around because if i move into the open i get mowed down, im not quick enough to move across open ground either and my hitbox is bigger and im an easy target for snipers, i need a LAV to move around
In CQC maps im ideal in corridors but to make the most out of it i need a logi repping me and also laying down nanohives so i can reload
I can use a light weapon but up close is my strong suit and its better to use a HMG to pummel anyone who gets close enough, if i used a duvolle i spend more time reloading but also i have to be away at distance to make the most of it
Assaults move from point to [oint hit and run tactics but also have the ability to stick around if needed and do not have to rely on logis unlike heavys
Intelligence is OP
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1049
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tried it out today.
Confirmed some things and negated others.
You don't need a Logi if you have a complex armor rep. With 500 or so shield, you can easily regenerate enough outside of battle time to build a good defense while your armor reps. Mind you, I'm only using the militia variant.
Scans don't matter as heavies are pretty easy to track and flank in many situations. With that said, a heavy can still absorb damage. The big changer is how you manage your recovery as a heavy, if you took significant damage. If you can manage that well on your own, e.g. Holding good cover, you're in the advantage.
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Heavies mobility is a big issue in the grand scheme of things but they have the ability to push. What confuses the hell outta me is how do the sentinels I play against get to distant objective, i.e. Not in a cluster/center point, with swiftly and continuously. I had trouble getting to a place with no cover without really getting the hurt, as it should be, but I swear it seems as if others can do the impossible.
It's not a single rifle that works well with the suit. It's varies on the user. I suck at Rail Rifles and because so I'm not good at even hitting a barn door. Give me an assault rifle and I'll get to business, which I did. Still doesn't take away the fact that with the assistance of RRs in competent hands, it would be a powerful force.
I also realized how much I suck at low mobility suits, as I'm honestly a scout at heart. That's my personal reason for not using em but honestly, I could still die less with these on. Also, I could die the same amount of times but still have a cheaper fit but that's not really an issue if other things are changed, like what's coming in 1.8.
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Overall I have my reasons to not use the suit but it still seems to be the best suit to use at certain times with the right rifle. 1v1s become extremely easier unless it's another heavy you're going against.
Edit: also... I still need to figure out htf some heavies pull off miraculous feats but meh.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Billi Gene
455
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
apologies, but i didnt read the entire thread:
there seems to be some confusion over the word "assault".
as an example:
I have never been assaulted by a slimy slow moving slug.... demeaned and possibly violated but never assaulted.
if an entire team of heavies were to "assault" an open air objective, i'd think it less an assault and more a siege....if you are able to get my drift?
Heavies attacking interior objectives is a case of forced entry....
Speed is the ability to react meaningfully. It is the greatest differential, in terms of user experience or handling, when comparing the Heavy to any other suit.
feel free to quibble over my quibble.... but lets be honest: the heavy suit is not "doing the Assault suit role better than an Assault suit can!!1!!!!!1!"
Pedant, Ape, Troll.
My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
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TheDarthMa94
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
80
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Posted - 2014.02.05 17:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
The bigger they are the harder they fall.......
........but the bigger they are the easier the target
Sith Apprentice and Director of NAO
"What skills? Its the connection bro!"
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