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Zekain K
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
1110
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not talking about skill, But the play style of an armor tanker in general. People say that they are overpowered because of how everyone occasionally runs into one, or a group of armor tankers that are actually trying to do the one thing we can do naturally. Heal.
If they did not have the healing equipment, they would be easy pickings. Its self evident by how rare it is to actually see an armor tanker sit on a rep hive, or have a logi backing them. theres also a safety factor. Shield tankers can gocamywhere they want, and will never have to worry about their shield recharge failing them. Whereas an armor tanker is screwed out in the open. He would have to leave healing hotspots around to stay alive. We don't have to do that.
CALDARI not so MASTER RACE
Forum Warrior Level: 10
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
6148
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Finally someone who understands.
Healing equipment is unreliable, you just DON'T stack plates on armor suits, you're just crying to lose your suit.
Half of the slots are usually dedicated to armor repairers.
Would also like to note that shield recharge is getting a massive buff in 1.8 on shield suits.
Caldari heavy: 30hp/s
Caldari assault: 40hp/s
Caldari scout: 50hp/s
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8787
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think that the perception of the armour/shield balance is heavily skewed by the current logistics that we have.
Consider the Gallente logistics. 800 armour, triage hives, reps, scanners, inherent regen, the works. That's OP.
Then consider the Gallente assault. Less armour (ranging from 500-600, generally) , no inherent regen, one EQ and therefore unable to use the armour support tools, etc.
I think you have the right of it, though. At brawling, armour does well. At kiting, shield is superior. That's how it should be, hm?
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1297
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
In all honesty, the only reason I don't shield tank is because of my lack of sp to support it because of how necessary complex extenders are.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
334
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
message from Godin: bu but I can stealth tank better than any Caldari or Winmatar suit can, and I'm faster than the Caldari HAV's...... |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1297
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Double post
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8787
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:In all honesty, the only reason I don't shield tank is because of my lack of sp to support it because of how necessary complex extenders are.
This is another point, actually.
The scaling on shield extenders is horrendous, and the lower tier ones really should have a bit more health.
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
6152
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: bu but I can stealth tank better than any Caldari or Winmatar suit can, and I'm faster than the Caldari HAV's......
Uhh... wat
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1297
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: bu but I can stealth tank better than any Caldari or Winmatar suit can, and I'm faster than the Caldari HAV's...... Uhh... wat
Someone spiked the quafe.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1559
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:I'm not talking about skill, But the play style of an armor tanker in general. People say that they are overpowered because of how everyone occasionally runs into one, or a group of armor tankers that are actually trying to do the one thing we can do naturally. Heal.
If they did not have the healing equipment, they would be easy pickings. Its self evident by how rare it is to actually see an armor tanker sit on a rep hive, or have a logi backing them. theres also a safety factor. Shield tankers can gocamywhere they want, and will never have to worry about their shield recharge failing them. Whereas an armor tanker is screwed out in the open. He would have to leave healing hotspots around to stay alive. We don't have to do that.
I like my armor tanked suit as i prefer to brawl it out instead of trying to make a run for it and armor allows me to do that, though in extended firefights vs multiple opponents my suit gets worn down and i need a hive to get repped back up.
Both work pretty well.
Shield tries to wear down an Armor tank by popping in and out of combat.
Armor tries to kill Shield before it tries to retreat into cover.
Shield, if my protection layer is gone, retreat fight another day...
Armor, if my protection layer is gone, ill be dead, so lemme kill you before that happens... :)
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
6152
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Zekain K wrote:I'm not talking about skill, But the play style of an armor tanker in general. People say that they are overpowered because of how everyone occasionally runs into one, or a group of armor tankers that are actually trying to do the one thing we can do naturally. Heal.
If they did not have the healing equipment, they would be easy pickings. Its self evident by how rare it is to actually see an armor tanker sit on a rep hive, or have a logi backing them. theres also a safety factor. Shield tankers can gocamywhere they want, and will never have to worry about their shield recharge failing them. Whereas an armor tanker is screwed out in the open. He would have to leave healing hotspots around to stay alive. We don't have to do that. I like my armor tanked suit as i prefer to brawl it out instead of trying to make a run for it and armor allows me to do that, though in extended firefights vs multiple opponents my suit gets worn down and i need a hive to get repped back up. Both work pretty well. Shield tries to wear down an Armor tank by popping in and out of combat. Armor tries to kill Shield before it tries to retreat into cover. Shield, if my protection layer is gone, retreat fight another day... Armor, if my protection layer is gone, ill be dead, so lemme kill you before that happens... :)
Which fits perfectly with my hyper aggressive play style.
You will NOT run away from me to regenerate, I will take you down.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
290
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
The only thing OP about armor are logi suits.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
589
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
The problem with armor is they have tank and gank. Shields are supposed to be the DPs dealers. Get in, deal damage, get out. Armor is about staying power. They can make up for damage mods it with EWAR.
Move damage mods to the lows, and move everything save fitting mods, regulators, and damage mods to the highs. Shields can shore up their weaknesses with regulators. Armor should be able to shire up their weaknesses (slow) with kincats, plus have codebreakers and all that to get the advantage over shields. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1299
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
The only justification for damage mods going to lows seems to be lore and Eve, saying Shields are meant to dish out more damage (which in most cases compared to the racial equivalent, they do less dps). An actual shield fix needs to happen or the problem just switches hands. Part of the problem comes from damafe mods themselves, they more than triple in affect from basic to complex.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
1793
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:I'm not talking about skill, But the play style of an armor tanker in general. People say that they are overpowered because of how everyone occasionally runs into one, or a group of armor tankers that are actually trying to do the one thing we can do naturally. Heal.
If they did not have the healing equipment, they would be easy pickings. Its self evident by how rare it is to actually see an armor tanker sit on a rep hive, or have a logi backing them. theres also a safety factor. Shield tankers can gocamywhere they want, and will never have to worry about their shield recharge failing them. Whereas an armor tanker is screwed out in the open. He would have to leave healing hotspots around to stay alive. We don't have to do that.
OMG you are probably the only shield tanker/Caldari who not only appreciates his natural repair but also understands how difficult it is to armor tank. +1
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
6154
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem with armor is they have tank and gank. Shields are supposed to be the DPs dealers. Get in, deal damage, get out. Armor is about staying power. They can make up for damage mods it with EWAR.
Move damage mods to the lows, and move everything save fitting mods, regulators, and damage mods to the highs. Shields can shore up their weaknesses with regulators. Armor should be able to shire up their weaknesses (slow) with kincats, plus have codebreakers and all that to get the advantage over shields.
Actually in DUST, armor is supposed to be the DPS dealer in close range...
Unless of course you will agree to have plate HP to increase so that the HP difference actually matters. (The average proto Gallente assault has 500-600 HP max)
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
210
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Zekain K wrote:I'm not talking about skill, But the play style of an armor tanker in general. People say that they are overpowered because of how everyone occasionally runs into one, or a group of armor tankers that are actually trying to do the one thing we can do naturally. Heal.
If they did not have the healing equipment, they would be easy pickings. Its self evident by how rare it is to actually see an armor tanker sit on a rep hive, or have a logi backing them. theres also a safety factor. Shield tankers can gocamywhere they want, and will never have to worry about their shield recharge failing them. Whereas an armor tanker is screwed out in the open. He would have to leave healing hotspots around to stay alive. We don't have to do that. OMG you are probably the only shield tanker/Caldari who not only appreciates his natural repair but also understands how difficult it is to armor tank. +1
i've played ambush without vehicles, i know
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3880
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
SE's could still give a little more health to make up for the increased recharge delay.
I am your scan error.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2143
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yup, we can use 2 plates and 2 reps.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
371
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Finally someone who understands.
Healing equipment is unreliable, you just DON'T stack plates on armor suits, you're just crying to lose your suit.
Half of the slots are usually dedicated to armor repairers.
Would also like to note that shield recharge is getting a massive buff in 1.8 on shield suits.
Caldari heavy: 30hp/s
Caldari assault: 40hp/s
Caldari scout: 50hp/s
what about minmitar? or are they getting ****** over again...
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
372
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:In all honesty, the only reason I don't shield tank is because of my lack of sp to support it because of how necessary complex extenders are. This is another point, actually. The scaling on shield extenders is horrendous, and the lower tier ones really should have a bit more health.
they also need lower pg requirements so that the people who use them can fit biotics in the lows. For armor tankers, you only need adv plates which have very low costs, a low penalty, and a lower sp requirement. For shields to be effective you need complex extenders, which have a huge cpu and pg cost. For armor tankers, stacking adv plates allows for the use of cpu intensive damage mods, but for shield tankers, the high pg cost doesn't allow for the use of biotics in the lows. That is the real imbalance in my opinion. If the costs were reduced and the shield tankers (caldari and minmitar) receive better incentives to stack shields, i.e. more recharge and better recharge delay, the disparity between shields and armor will be fixed.
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
372
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
i made a thread about getting up some number to fix shields and armor disparity, which includes a unique set of ideas for buffs and nerds, ill put it in here.
MODULES
The main modules that need their effectiveness reduced in comparison to other modules are MLT, STD, and ADV armor plates (non-variant), and damage mods. CCP plans on nerfing damage mods, so i will not comment on that
these are some possible buffs to reduce armor and shield disparity-
STD: (75 armor, 3 PG, 10 CPU) vs (33 shields, 2 PG, 15 CPU)
ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU) vs (55 shields, 4 PG, 36 CPU)
PRO: (135 armor, 12 PG, 30 CPU) vs (70 shields, 8 PG, 54 CPU)
if anything, the ludicrous costs of shield extenders need to be lowered especially in the pg departments for 3 reasons-
1. At proto level, (their only useful level), they only cost 1 pg less than proto plates, but 24 more cpu
2. Shield tankers (minmitar/caldari) have very low pg, but high cpu
3. Biotic modules which are supposed to be coupled with shields to create a hit and run style of suit cost the most pg of any module in the game, making them unfittable if the user also wants to stack shields
In addition, Caldari and minmitar suits need an innate buff to shield recharge delay (not depleted) and recharge rate of about 15-25%
ARMOR ALSO NEEDS A BUFF
The penalties for movement speed for all plates are backwards in my opinion, and is part of the reason no one uses anything past ADV plates. A solution for this would be to make the penalty constant across all tiers, possibly a 3-4% penalty depending on common opinion. Also, ferroscales and reactive plates are a joke, and i dont even use armor. I think that ferroscales need a slight buff hp wise (5% ish), but should also have very low fitting costs. Reactive plates should have a lower penalty than other plates (1-2%), and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales. Also, armor repairers should be moved to high slots. I currently think it is unfair to armor tankers that shield tankers are able to use both high and low slots to tank their suit, while armor tankers must only use low slots.
-proposed buff for armor repairers- move to a high slot, or instead just add a high module that bonuses armor regen
-Armor repair, however, should not work while taking fire, in other words, add a 1 sec delay after taking fire to armor repair
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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Izlare Lenix
FREE AGENTS LP
120
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Having to pick between tank and gank makes sense in eve. You pick a high dps glass canon shield tank or a low dps high ehp armor tank. You either kill fast our survive longer.
Yet in Dust you can pick high dps and high ehp armor suits. Shields are out performed in evey way by armor in dust. Armor gets superior dps, superior ehp, armorhives, armor reps, armor repair with a needle stick. Armor tankers can also camp while standing in a triage hive getting immediate repairs.
Shields get crap ehp, lackluster dps, and a bs shield regen that takes 5 seconds of hiding to even activate. With TTK the way it is having high armor ehp and more dps is much better than having less shield ehp that regens faster on its own.
Anyone that thinks armor is not better than shields on dropsuits is a liar or an idiot.
Gun control is not about guns...it's about control.
The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
372
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:Having to pick between tank and gank makes sense in eve. You pick a high dps glass canon shield tank or a low dps high ehp armor tank. You either kill fast or survive longer.
Yet in Dust you can pick high dps and high ehp armor suits. Shields are out performed in evey way by armor in dust. Armor gets superior dps, superior ehp, armorhives, armor reps, armor repair with a needle stick. Armor tankers can also camp while standing in a triage hive getting immediate repairs.
Shields get crap ehp, lackluster dps, and a bs shield regen that takes 5 seconds of hiding to even activate. With TTK the way it is having high armor ehp and more dps is much better than having less shield ehp that regens faster on its own.
Anyone that thinks armor is not better than shields on dropsuits is a liar or an idiot.
i currently like how it works, shields get huge mobility and e-war, armor gets huge EHP and damage. However, currently, shields are underperforming even in their current niche, which is a problem
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
574
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem with armor is they have tank and gank. Shields are supposed to be the DPs dealers. Get in, deal damage, get out. Armor is about staying power. They can make up for damage mods it with EWAR.
Move damage mods to the lows, and move everything save fitting mods, regulators, and damage mods to the highs. Shields can shore up their weaknesses with regulators. Armor should be able to shire up their weaknesses (slow) with kincats, plus have codebreakers and all that to get the advantage over shields. Actually in DUST, armor is supposed to be the DPS dealer in close range... Unless of course you will agree to have plate HP to increase so that the HP difference actually matters. (The average proto Gallente assault has 500-600 HP max)
Plates do have double the hp of extenders. That is significant, but armor tankers have to add reppers and shields tankers do not. Perhaps moving reppers could help, though I'm not sure it would be worth giving up damage mods. But getting other mods like codebreakers and kin cats would make it easier to swallow.
Definitely would like to see development of other mods rather than just moving mods but it would be a start.
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1560
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem with armor is they have tank and gank. Shields are supposed to be the DPs dealers. Get in, deal damage, get out. Armor is about staying power. They can make up for damage mods it with EWAR.
Move damage mods to the lows, and move everything save fitting mods, regulators, and damage mods to the highs. Shields can shore up their weaknesses with regulators. Armor should be able to shire up their weaknesses (slow) with kincats, plus have codebreakers and all that to get the advantage over shields.
No, we have a Buffer that allows a short window to gank, but if we tank we arent gonna be back into the fight in 20 seconds unless we carry proto hives and that only works 3 times.
If you move Damage mods to the Lows, all you have just done is give every shield suit MAX EHP, while they GANK with full damage, pop around a corner and recover 25 EHP a second while having superior Mobility over an Armor suit.
That leaves an Armor suit with what exactly, speed in their high slots, while stacking armor plates? yes that makes sense.....
Basically we will be left with Shield Suits, capable of moving fast, recovering fast and dealing damage really fast vs Fast armor suits that still don't recover their armor any faster then they do now, they don't deal damage but regardless of their armor plates, they can sprint really well, yeah lemme spec into your OP as F*ck Fixed Shield suit next...
Theres so much wrong, ill just stop here...
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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Izlare Lenix
FREE AGENTS LP
120
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem with armor is they have tank and gank. Shields are supposed to be the DPs dealers. Get in, deal damage, get out. Armor is about staying power. They can make up for damage mods it with EWAR.
Move damage mods to the lows, and move everything save fitting mods, regulators, and damage mods to the highs. Shields can shore up their weaknesses with regulators. Armor should be able to shire up their weaknesses (slow) with kincats, plus have codebreakers and all that to get the advantage over shields. Actually in DUST, armor is supposed to be the DPS dealer in close range... Unless of course you will agree to have plate HP to increase so that the HP difference actually matters. (The average proto Gallente assault has 500-600 HP max) Plates do have double the hp of extenders. That is significant, but armor tankers have to add reppers and shields tankers do not. Perhaps moving reppers could help, though I'm not sure it would be worth giving up damage mods. But getting other mods like codebreakers and kin cats would make it easier to swallow. Definitely would like to see development of other mods rather than just moving mods but it would be a start.
With the current meta, armor tanked dont don't HAVE to fit reppers. The amount of logi support repping and dropping triage hives makes up for not having your own rep. And most logi slayers stack plates, use suit natural heal rate and drop their own compact hive when they need reps. When running with a squad with logi support or using a logi suit, stacked plates are better than your own repper. This adds more ehp to armor suits, widening the gap further between armor supremacy and shield shittyness.
Gun control is not about guns...it's about control.
The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8796
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem with armor is they have tank and gank. Shields are supposed to be the DPs dealers. Get in, deal damage, get out. Armor is about staying power. They can make up for damage mods it with EWAR.
Move damage mods to the lows, and move everything save fitting mods, regulators, and damage mods to the highs. Shields can shore up their weaknesses with regulators. Armor should be able to shire up their weaknesses (slow) with kincats, plus have codebreakers and all that to get the advantage over shields. Actually in DUST, armor is supposed to be the DPS dealer in close range... Unless of course you will agree to have plate HP to increase so that the HP difference actually matters. (The average proto Gallente assault has 500-600 HP max) Plates do have double the hp of extenders. That is significant, but armor tankers have to add reppers and shields tankers do not. Perhaps moving reppers could help, though I'm not sure it would be worth giving up damage mods. But getting other mods like codebreakers and kin cats would make it easier to swallow. Definitely would like to see development of other mods rather than just moving mods but it would be a start. With the current meta, armor tanked dont don't HAVE to fit reppers. The amount of logi support repping and dropping triage hives makes up for not having your own rep. And most logi slayers stack plates, use suit natural heal rate and drop their own compact hive when they need reps. When running with a squad with logi support or using a logi suit, stacked plates are better than your own repper. This adds more ehp to armor suits, widening the gap further between armor supremacy and shield shittyness.
So would you agree that the problem is linked more to the logistics than anything else?
Or do you think that even without logistics, armour is the de facto better choice for everything?
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
4284
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:I'm not talking about skill, But the play style of an armor tanker in general. People say that they are overpowered because of how everyone occasionally runs into one, or a group of armor tankers that are actually trying to do the one thing we can do naturally. Heal.
If they did not have the healing equipment, they would be easy pickings. Its self evident by how rare it is to actually see an armor tanker sit on a rep hive, or have a logi backing them. theres also a safety factor. Shield tankers can gocamywhere they want, and will never have to worry about their shield recharge failing them. Whereas an armor tanker is screwed out in the open. He would have to leave healing hotspots around to stay alive. We don't have to do that.
GAL ASSAULT Gk.0 (example)
1 Cx armor rep
3 ENH Armor plates
See?
Sacrificing HP repair (instead of a 20 shield recharge rate per second, 6.25 armor rep per second)
For a big HP advantage (619 armor in 1.7 and 715 as per 1.8)
And you are forgetting armor tankers Have a chance to get to FULL HP back (shield natural rep + armor rep),while a shield tanker would have to waste a slot on a Armor rep or Reactive plate to do this.
So yeah , Armor tankers sacrifice (minimal) speed and rep capacity, to gain bigger numbers in HP values.
They dont suck, they are jsut a different type of soldier.
Armor tankers are not necessarily OP, its armor plates that are broken in comparison to Shield extenders.
AceOfJokers666 [ + ] AimBot / VALOR / MAG | YOU EITHER LOVE BACON OR YOU ARE WRONG
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Tectonic Fusion
1012
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Part of the problem comes from damafe mods themselves, they more than triple in affect from basic to complex.
You're right. Make it 5-7-10. Because let's be honest...basic and advanced damage mods really suck, but so do advanced and basic shields, and shield rechargers. I'm starting to see a trend.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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Tectonic Fusion
1012
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU)
and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales.
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost
First of all........ARE YOU CRAZY? 100 HP armor for advanced would be OP for armor tankers.
But I do agree with the part about the last part.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
415
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
i think it is currently op, they have significantly higher hp values than shields, along with 5hps on logis pluss a complex and their good. the rep tools and hives are just a screw it factor then theirs dmg mods being available to em which makes it erggg
but in the coming upfate i think itlll be a bit more balanced
Proud Christian
one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
415
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem with armor is they have tank and gank. Shields are supposed to be the DPs dealers. Get in, deal damage, get out. Armor is about staying power. They can make up for damage mods it with EWAR.
Move damage mods to the lows, and move everything save fitting mods, regulators, and damage mods to the highs. Shields can shore up their weaknesses with regulators. Armor should be able to shire up their weaknesses (slow) with kincats, plus have codebreakers and all that to get the advantage over shields. No, we have a Buffer that allows a short window to gank, but if we tank we arent gonna be back into the fight in 20 seconds unless we carry proto hives and that only works 3 times. If you move Damage mods to the Lows, all you have just done is give every shield suit MAX EHP, while they GANK with full damage, pop around a corner and recover 25 EHP a second while having superior Mobility over an Armor suit. That leaves an Armor suit with what exactly, speed in their high slots, while stacking armor plates? yes that makes sense..... Basically we will be left with Shield Suits, capable of moving fast, recovering fast and dealing damage really fast vs Fast armor suits that still don't recover their armor any faster then they do now, they don't deal damage but regardless of their armor plates, they can sprint really well, yeah lemme spec into your OP as F*ck Fixed Shield suit next... Theres so much wrong, ill just stop here...
with a delay
Proud Christian
one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
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Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
157
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU)
and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales.
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost First of all........ARE YOU CRAZY? 100 HP armor for advanced would be OP for armor tankers. But I do agree with the part about the last part.
Right now it's like 115hp at ADV
"War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left."
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
374
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ill post it againGǪthis will solve all problems with module imbalance, please comment your opinions
MODULES
The main modules that need their effectiveness reduced in comparison to other modules are MLT, STD, and ADV armor plates (non-variant), and damage mods. CCP plans on nerfing damage mods, so i will not comment on that
these are some possible buffs to reduce armor and shield disparity-
STD: (85 armor, 3 PG, 10 CPU) vs (33 shields, 2 PG, 15 CPU)
ADV: (110 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU) vs (55 shields, 4 PG, 36 CPU)
PRO: (135 armor, 12 PG, 30 CPU) vs (70 shields, 8 PG, 54 CPU)
if anything, the ludicrous costs of shield extenders need to be lowered especially in the pg departments for 3 reasons-
1. At proto level, (their only useful level), they only cost 1 pg less than proto plates, but 24 more cpu
2. Shield tankers (minmitar/caldari) have very low pg, but high cpu
3. Biotic modules which are supposed to be coupled with shields to create a hit and run style of suit cost the most pg of any module in the game, making them unfittable if the user also wants to stack shields. Armor suits are able to easily fit damage mods in the highs and armor in the lows which is good, but shields should be able to fit shields in the highs and biotics in the lows with ease
In addition, Caldari and minmitar suits need an innate buff to shield recharge delay (not depleted) and recharge rate of about 15-25%
ARMOR ALSO NEEDS A BUFF
The penalties for movement speed for all plates are backwards in my opinion, and is part of the reason no one uses anything past ADV plates. A solution for this would be to make the penalty constant across all tiers, possibly a 3-4% penalty depending on common opinion. Also, ferroscales and reactive plates are a joke, and i dont even use armor. I think that ferroscales need a slight buff hp wise (5% ish), but should also have very low fitting costs. Reactive plates should have a lower penalty than other plates (1-2%), and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales. Also, armor repairers should be moved to high slots. I currently think it is unfair to armor tankers that shield tankers are able to use both high and low slots to tank their suit, while armor tankers must only use low slots.
-proposed buff for armor repairers- move to a high slot, or instead just add a high module that bonuses armor regen
-Armor repair, however, should not work while taking fire, in other words, add a 1 sec delay after taking fire to armor repair
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
374
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ronan Elsword wrote:Tectonic Fusion wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU)
and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales.
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost First of all........ARE YOU CRAZY? 100 HP armor for advanced would be OP for armor tankers. But I do agree with the part about the last part. Right now it's like 115hp at ADV
No 100 would not be OP because it also has a constant penalty to movement speed throughout all tiers (3-4%) which would remove the current OPness of armor tanking. currently, nobody runs proto plates because of the movement penalty being too much to be made up for by the minimal increase over ADV plates
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8802
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ronan Elsword wrote:Tectonic Fusion wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU)
and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales.
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost First of all........ARE YOU CRAZY? 100 HP armor for advanced would be OP for armor tankers. But I do agree with the part about the last part. Right now it's like 115hp at ADV No 100 would not be OP because it also has a constant penalty to movement speed throughout all tiers (3-4%) which would remove the current OPness of armor tanking. currently, nobody runs proto plates because of the movement penalty being too much to be made up for by the minimal increase over ADV plates. Armor should have on the order of 1.5-1.75 times as much hp as shield, due to their stand and deliver nature
No.
Nobody runs proto plates because of the fitting requirements.
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
374
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ronan Elsword wrote:Tectonic Fusion wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU)
and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales.
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost First of all........ARE YOU CRAZY? 100 HP armor for advanced would be OP for armor tankers. But I do agree with the part about the last part. Right now it's like 115hp at ADV No 100 would not be OP because it also has a constant penalty to movement speed throughout all tiers (3-4%) which would remove the current OPness of armor tanking. currently, nobody runs proto plates because of the movement penalty being too much to be made up for by the minimal increase over ADV plates. Armor should have on the order of 1.5-1.75 times as much hp as shield, due to their stand and deliver nature No. Nobody runs proto plates because of the fitting requirements.
That too. But do you agree with me?
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1305
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Part of the problem comes from damafe mods themselves, they more than triple in affect from basic to complex. You're right. Make it 4-7-10. Because let's be honest...basic and advanced damage mods really suck, but so do advanced and basic shields, and shield rechargers. I'm starting to see a trend.
Uh no, that's not the direction I was going with that post at all. More along the lines of 3 4 and 5.5
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Izlare Lenix
FREE AGENTS LP
121
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 00:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
Shield regen vs. Armor repair is not the real problem. They are both moot points if you are killed. The problem is an armor suit has more ehp and can stack damage mods. This gives them a huge advantage against shield suits as the armor suit can kill faster and live longer.
Armor suits have many ways to repair after an engadement, and with more damage and health, they have the upper hand. Shield regen is only a factor five seconds after an engagement. And with less ehp and less damage a shield suit is at a disadvantage versus an armor suit and often doesn't survive to regen.
Gun control is not about guns...it's about control.
The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
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Turtle Hermit Roshi
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
59
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:I'm not talking about skill, But the play style of an armor tanker in general. People say that they are overpowered because of how everyone occasionally runs into one, or a group of armor tankers that are actually trying to do the one thing we can do naturally. Heal.
If they did not have the healing equipment, they would be easy pickings. Its self evident by how rare it is to actually see an armor tanker sit on a rep hive, or have a logi backing them. theres also a safety factor. Shield tankers can gocamywhere they want, and will never have to worry about their shield recharge failing them. Whereas an armor tanker is screwed out in the open. He would have to leave healing hotspots around to stay alive. We don't have to do that.
well as a heavy. armor tanking is only natural
oh an OP you are only forum warrior level 1 not 10 dont inflate stats bro
yes i scream KA-ME-HA-MEHAAAAAA when i forge muthafuckas
the Turtle Hermit: Professional Heavy
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
374
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Posted - 2014.02.02 01:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:Shield regen vs. Armor repair is not the real problem. They are both moot points if you are killed. The problem is an armor suit has more ehp and can stack damage mods. This gives them a huge advantage against shield suits as the armor suit can kill faster and live longer.
Armor suits have many ways to repair after an engadement, and with more damage and health, they have the upper hand. Shield regen is only a factor five seconds after an engagement. And with less ehp and less damage a shield suit is at a disadvantage versus an armor suit and often doesn't survive to regen.
thats why shields need lower pg costs for biotics in the lows
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
849
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 01:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
As someones already said before, armor plates are broken compared to shield extenders.
armor is 4x the HP of its shield counterpart at MLT & STD, with EXTREMELY low pg & cpu cost(1pg, 10cpu), 3x HP at ADV with similar yet still superior fitting,and 2x as effective at PRO with similar yet still superior fitting.
Its that simple, you get 400 HP from 5 extenders or 370 or so with 4 on calassault, you get 770 from 5 plates.
with level 5 on both its 155 armor per plate, 75 shield per extender.
of course all tiers are great with plates while protos only useful with extenders, but this COULD be remedied by PG/CPU mods IF pure shield tanking had higher EHP, letting it be viable. Regulators are also completely useless, while reppers are perfectly balanced.
As a result of these stats, all decent armor tankers run 1 complex repper with all other slots plates, or logis use no reppers and all plates, then use a proto weapon, then fit as many complex damage mods as possible with any leftover fitting going to scanners, low level nanohives, or grenades.
Shield suits have to mimic these fits to stand a chance, while callogis sacrifice a low for a CPU mod, and callassaults sacrifice a low for a repper, or have no reps at all.
Minassaults run no reps all extenders 2 plates, Min logis stack 4 plates with 3 damage mods 1 ext or 4 extenders.
Minmatar scouts are just screwed.
That's "MR." Pothead to you.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
374
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Posted - 2014.02.02 01:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:As someones already said before, armor plates are broken compared to shield extenders.
armor is 4x the HP of its shield counterpart at MLT & STD, with EXTREMELY low pg & cpu cost(1pg, 10cpu), 3x HP at ADV with similar yet still superior fitting,and 2x as effective at PRO with similar yet still superior fitting.
Its that simple, you get 400 HP from 5 extenders or 370 or so with 4 on calassault, you get 770 from 5 plates.
with level 5 on both its 155 armor per plate, 75 shield per extender.
of course all tiers are great with plates while protos only useful with extenders, but this COULD be remedied by PG/CPU mods IF pure shield tanking had higher EHP, letting it be viable. Regulators are also completely useless, while reppers are perfectly balanced.
As a result of these stats, all decent armor tankers run 1 complex repper with all other slots plates, or logis use no reppers and all plates, then use a proto weapon, then fit as many complex damage mods as possible with any leftover fitting going to scanners, low level nanohives, or grenades.
Shield suits have to mimic these fits to stand a chance, while callogis sacrifice a low for a CPU mod, and callassaults sacrifice a low for a repper, or have no reps at all.
Minassaults run no reps all extenders 2 plates, Min logis stack 4 plates with 3 damage mods 1 ext or 4 extenders.
Minmatar scouts are just screwed.
couldn't have said it better. To make shields viable, they need to have less cpu/pg costs, and armor needs to be more useful at proto than at ADV, and mid level extenders need to be useful to some extent
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
6165
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:Shield regen vs. Armor repair is not the real problem. They are both moot points if you are killed. The problem is an armor suit has more ehp and can stack damage mods. This gives them a huge advantage against shield suits as the armor suit can kill faster and live longer.
Armor suits have many ways to repair after an engadement, and with more damage and health, they have the upper hand. Shield regen is only a factor five seconds after an engagement. And with less ehp and less damage a shield suit is at a disadvantage versus an armor suit and often doesn't survive to regen.
I'm sorry all I can hear is "WAH I'M GOING TO HAVE 40HP/S WITH MINIMAL DELAY COME 1.8! WHAT A CRUEL WORLD!"
My Caldari suit has 500 HP.
My Gallente suit has 530 HP
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
6165
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:As someones already said before, armor plates are broken compared to shield extenders.
armor is 4x the HP of its shield counterpart at MLT & STD, with EXTREMELY low pg & cpu cost(1pg, 10cpu), 3x HP at ADV with similar yet still superior fitting,and 2x as effective at PRO with similar yet still superior fitting.
Its that simple, you get 400 HP from 5 extenders or 370 or so with 4 on calassault, you get 770 from 5 plates.
with level 5 on both its 155 armor per plate, 75 shield per extender.
of course all tiers are great with plates while protos only useful with extenders, but this COULD be remedied by PG/CPU mods IF pure shield tanking had higher EHP, letting it be viable. Regulators are also completely useless, while reppers are perfectly balanced.
As a result of these stats, all decent armor tankers run 1 complex repper with all other slots plates, or logis use no reppers and all plates, then use a proto weapon, then fit as many complex damage mods as possible with any leftover fitting going to scanners, low level nanohives, or grenades.
Shield suits have to mimic these fits to stand a chance, while callogis sacrifice a low for a CPU mod, and callassaults sacrifice a low for a repper, or have no reps at all.
Minassaults run no reps all extenders 2 plates, Min logis stack 4 plates with 3 damage mods 1 ext or 4 extenders.
Minmatar scouts are just screwed.
The suit you described there is a scrub suit that I will take down with ease.
You are obviously not an armor tanker.
You are also trying to mimic armor using shields.
Do I even need to explain why your comparison is broken?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:15:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Izlare Lenix wrote:Shield regen vs. Armor repair is not the real problem. They are both moot points if you are killed. The problem is an armor suit has more ehp and can stack damage mods. This gives them a huge advantage against shield suits as the armor suit can kill faster and live longer.
Armor suits have many ways to repair after an engadement, and with more damage and health, they have the upper hand. Shield regen is only a factor five seconds after an engagement. And with less ehp and less damage a shield suit is at a disadvantage versus an armor suit and often doesn't survive to regen. I'm sorry all I can hear is "WAH I'M GOING TO HAVE 40HP/S WITH MINIMAL DELAY COME 1.8! WHAT A CRUEL WORLD!" My Caldari suit has 500 HP. My Gallente suit has 530 HP
Have you use a caldari suit? Also galente have shields too so.....
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1152
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Izlare Lenix wrote:Shield regen vs. Armor repair is not the real problem. They are both moot points if you are killed. The problem is an armor suit has more ehp and can stack damage mods. This gives them a huge advantage against shield suits as the armor suit can kill faster and live longer.
Armor suits have many ways to repair after an engadement, and with more damage and health, they have the upper hand. Shield regen is only a factor five seconds after an engagement. And with less ehp and less damage a shield suit is at a disadvantage versus an armor suit and often doesn't survive to regen. I'm sorry all I can hear is "WAH I'M GOING TO HAVE 40HP/S* WITH MINIMAL DELAY COME 1.8! WHAT A CRUEL WORLD!" My Caldari suit has 500 HP. My Gallente suit has 530 HP
*74 shield/s with 1 complex shield recharger on caldari assault.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 10:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Izlare Lenix wrote:Shield regen vs. Armor repair is not the real problem. They are both moot points if you are killed. The problem is an armor suit has more ehp and can stack damage mods. This gives them a huge advantage against shield suits as the armor suit can kill faster and live longer.
Armor suits have many ways to repair after an engadement, and with more damage and health, they have the upper hand. Shield regen is only a factor five seconds after an engagement. And with less ehp and less damage a shield suit is at a disadvantage versus an armor suit and often doesn't survive to regen. I'm sorry all I can hear is "WAH I'M GOING TO HAVE 40HP/S* WITH MINIMAL DELAY COME 1.8! WHAT A CRUEL WORLD!" My Caldari suit has 500 HP. My Gallente suit has 530 HP *74 shield/s with 1 complex shield recharger on caldari assault.
Nope
Max with a complex energiser is 60 or 55
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1153
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 10:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Izlare Lenix wrote:Shield regen vs. Armor repair is not the real problem. They are both moot points if you are killed. The problem is an armor suit has more ehp and can stack damage mods. This gives them a huge advantage against shield suits as the armor suit can kill faster and live longer.
Armor suits have many ways to repair after an engadement, and with more damage and health, they have the upper hand. Shield regen is only a factor five seconds after an engagement. And with less ehp and less damage a shield suit is at a disadvantage versus an armor suit and often doesn't survive to regen. I'm sorry all I can hear is "WAH I'M GOING TO HAVE 40HP/S* WITH MINIMAL DELAY COME 1.8! WHAT A CRUEL WORLD!" My Caldari suit has 500 HP. My Gallente suit has 530 HP *74 shield/s with 1 complex shield recharger on caldari assault. Nope Max with a complex energiser is 60 or 55
40 shield/s on assault (predicted, since scout has 50 and heavy 30)
Complex Energizer multiplier 1.15 (skill bonus)*1.60 (module bonus)
40 * 1.15 * 1.60 = 73.6 shield/s.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2014.02.02 10:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:NK Scout wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Izlare Lenix wrote:Shield regen vs. Armor repair is not the real problem. They are both moot points if you are killed. The problem is an armor suit has more ehp and can stack damage mods. This gives them a huge advantage against shield suits as the armor suit can kill faster and live longer.
Armor suits have many ways to repair after an engadement, and with more damage and health, they have the upper hand. Shield regen is only a factor five seconds after an engagement. And with less ehp and less damage a shield suit is at a disadvantage versus an armor suit and often doesn't survive to regen. I'm sorry all I can hear is "WAH I'M GOING TO HAVE 40HP/S* WITH MINIMAL DELAY COME 1.8! WHAT A CRUEL WORLD!" My Caldari suit has 500 HP. My Gallente suit has 530 HP *74 shield/s with 1 complex shield recharger on caldari assault. Nope Max with a complex energiser is 60 or 55 40 shield/s on assault (predicted, since scout has 50 and heavy 30) Complex Energizer multiplier 1.15 (skill bonus)*1.60 (module bonus) 40 * 1.15 * 1.60 = 73.6 shield/s.
Omg......the base recharge for assault is 25
The assault bonus for recharge is getting removed
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1153
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 10:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ah, but caldari assault is probably getting 40 shield/s in 1.8.
Its like in your signature: Caldari master race.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
|
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2014.02.02 10:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Ah, but caldari assault is probably getting 40 shield/s in 1.8.
Its like in your signature: Caldari master race.
I hope its 40
Plus the bonus is going away
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
560
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 11:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem with armor is they have tank and gank. Shields are supposed to be the DPs dealers. Get in, deal damage, get out. Armor is about staying power. They can make up for damage mods it with EWAR.
Move damage mods to the lows, and move everything save fitting mods, regulators, and damage mods to the highs. Shields can shore up their weaknesses with regulators. Armor should be able to shire up their weaknesses (slow) with kincats, plus have codebreakers and all that to get the advantage over shields.
Well yo have to consider fast suits with high eHP, High damage and super fast regen would be clearly op as hell. currently we hav fast low helth damage dealers and slow high HP damage dealers wich is balanced.
Most people think armor is OP becuse they think the only way to overcome curret low TTK is HP tanking (thats propably teh reason we see sooo many Assault mill/std heavies. But thats simply not the case low Hp speedy suits do very well in the current build (regardless if ist a scout or a heavy shield tanked cal assault) |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
6167
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 12:24:00 -
[55] - Quote
Would just like to clarify.
My Gallente has 530 ARMOR
My Caldari has 500 SHIELDS
This is not total HP.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
4346
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 12:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
Why are there so many scrubs directly comparing armor to shields.
Ok I'll do the same since shields are doing it for armor .
"It's unfair that Shields get massive passive regain and mobility" - excerpt from my short Novel, The plight of Armor Tankers.
You can't run both suits the same way so I'm not seeing an issue.
Just seeing shield tankers not getting their way after being spoiled for 1+ year
still that 22 hp can still let you survive one more round. Example, your suit by itself can take x AR bullets it can almost take x +1 but it's just a few hp underneath it. That 22 hp plate now lets you take that extra bullet. inb4 shield tankers argue that point with armor tactics in mind.
The only issue I'm seeing here is damage mods, and from the looks of all the current Caldari weapons in the games, you guys have your 2 Complex Damage mods built into the gun. Looks like in DUST minmitar are the ones with the damage mods. |
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
214
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 13:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Why are there so many scrubs directly comparing armor to shields.
Ok I'll do the same since shields are doing it for armor .
"It's unfair that Shields get massive passive regain and mobility" - excerpt from my short Novel, The plight of Armor Tankers.
You can't run both suits the same way so I'm not seeing an issue.
Just seeing shield tankers not getting their way after being spoiled for 1+ year
still that 22 hp can still let you survive one more round. Example, your suit by itself can take x AR bullets it can almost take x +1 but it's just a few hp underneath it. That 22 hp plate now lets you take that extra bullet. inb4 shield tankers argue that point with armor tactics in mind.
The only issue I'm seeing here is damage mods, and from the looks of all the current Caldari weapons in the games, you guys have your 2 Complex Damage mods built into the gun.
i got in a shield suit in sep
october for armor
guess which one's better
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
382
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:08:00 -
[58] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Would just like to clarify.
My Gallente has 530 ARMOR
My Caldari has 500 SHIELDS
This is not total HP.
then use a better fitting for your gallente suit. Ive seen plenty with over 900 armor before
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
216
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:09:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Would just like to clarify.
My Gallente has 530 ARMOR
My Caldari has 500 SHIELDS
This is not total HP. then use a better fitting for your gallente suit. Ive seen plenty with over 900 armor before
gal assault cant get 900 armor let alone 800.
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
382
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:10:00 -
[60] - Quote
MODULES
The main modules that need their effectiveness reduced in comparison to other modules are MLT, STD, and ADV armor plates (non-variant), and damage mods. CCP plans on nerfing damage mods, so i will not comment on that
these are some possible buffs to reduce armor and shield disparity-
STD: (75 armor, 3 PG, 10 CPU) vs (33 shields, 2 PG, 15 CPU)
ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU) vs (55 shields, 4 PG, 36 CPU)
PRO: (135 armor, 12 PG, 30 CPU) vs (70 shields, 8 PG, 54 CPU)
if anything, the ludicrous costs of shield extenders need to be lowered especially in the pg departments for 3 reasons-
1. At proto level, (their only useful level), they only cost 1 pg less than proto plates, but 24 more cpu
2. Shield tankers (minmitar/caldari) have very low pg, but high cpu
3. Biotic modules which are supposed to be coupled with shields to create a hit and run style of suit cost the most pg of any module in the game, making them unfittable if the user also wants to stack shields
In addition, Caldari and minmitar suits need an innate buff to shield recharge delay (not depleted) and recharge rate of about 15-25%
ARMOR ALSO NEEDS A BUFF
The penalties for movement speed for all plates are backwards in my opinion, and is part of the reason no one uses anything past ADV plates. A solution for this would be to make the penalty constant across all tiers, possibly a 3-4% penalty depending on common opinion. Also, ferroscales and reactive plates are a joke, and i dont even use armor. I think that ferroscales need a slight buff hp wise (5% ish), but should also have very low fitting costs. Reactive plates should have a lower penalty than other plates (1-2%), and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales. Also, armor repairers should be moved to high slots. I currently think it is unfair to armor tankers that shield tankers are able to use both high and low slots to tank their suit, while armor tankers must only use low slots.
-proposed buff for armor repairers- move to a high slot, or instead just add a high module that bonuses armor regen
-Armor repair, however, should not work while taking fire, in other words, add a 1 sec delay after taking fire to armor repair
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost
here you go. This would theoretically solve a lot of disparity between the viability of utilizing either shield or armor
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
|
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
382
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:14:00 -
[61] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Would just like to clarify.
My Gallente has 530 ARMOR
My Caldari has 500 SHIELDS
This is not total HP. then use a better fitting for your gallente suit. Ive seen plenty with over 900 armor before gal assault cant get 900 armor let alone 800.
I assumed logi.
210x1.25+4x 135x1.1=856.5, unless I'm doing my math wrong. This is for a gallente assault max armor stacking. Also allows for damage mods in the highs. I don't want to make a direct comparison to armor and shield, but if you take all factors considered, armor simply is better to use, for many small reasons, that add up to create a larger disparity. Read my previous post, and tell me what you think. I put a lot of time into it, so please be constructive. 
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
382
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
shields and armor offer 2 entirely different play styles, the one problem is that for fitting, armor allows for damage mods to be easily fitted in the highs and other good modules to be fitted because ADV is simply more effective than proto, and has less fitting cost. Biotics, which are supposed to be coupled with shields, cannot be due to the only useful extenders being proto extenders, which have a very high cpu/pg cost, and this coupled with the pg costs of biotics makes them difficult to fit, making it necessary to fit inferior equipment in the other slots.
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
216
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:MODULES
The main modules that need their effectiveness reduced in comparison to other modules are MLT, STD, and ADV armor plates (non-variant), and damage mods. CCP plans on nerfing damage mods, so i will not comment on that
these are some possible buffs to reduce armor and shield disparity-
STD: (75 armor, 3 PG, 10 CPU) vs (33 shields, 2 PG, 15 CPU)
ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU) vs (55 shields, 4 PG, 36 CPU)
PRO: (135 armor, 12 PG, 30 CPU) vs (70 shields, 8 PG, 54 CPU)
if anything, the ludicrous costs of shield extenders need to be lowered especially in the pg departments for 3 reasons-
1. At proto level, (their only useful level), they only cost 1 pg less than proto plates, but 24 more cpu
2. Shield tankers (minmitar/caldari) have very low pg, but high cpu
3. Biotic modules which are supposed to be coupled with shields to create a hit and run style of suit cost the most pg of any module in the game.
base complex armor reps should be 6 or 7 hp/s with a repair boost in the high
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
897
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:23:00 -
[64] - Quote
Use amarr logi, all complex reppers in lows, be an active armour tanker
Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running.
Delt for CPM1
|
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
216
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Use amarr logi, all complex reports in lows, be an active armour tanker
my amar logi is at 3
3 reps and a plate is far better.
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
382
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:MODULES
The main modules that need their effectiveness reduced in comparison to other modules are MLT, STD, and ADV armor plates (non-variant), and damage mods. CCP plans on nerfing damage mods, so i will not comment on that
these are some possible buffs to reduce armor and shield disparity-
STD: (75 armor, 3 PG, 10 CPU) vs (33 shields, 2 PG, 15 CPU)
ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU) vs (55 shields, 4 PG, 36 CPU)
PRO: (135 armor, 12 PG, 30 CPU) vs (70 shields, 8 PG, 54 CPU)
if anything, the ludicrous costs of shield extenders need to be lowered especially in the pg departments for 3 reasons-
1. At proto level, (their only useful level), they only cost 1 pg less than proto plates, but 24 more cpu
2. Shield tankers (minmitar/caldari) have very low pg, but high cpu
3. Biotic modules which are supposed to be coupled with shields to create a hit and run style of suit cost the most pg of any module in the game. base complex armor reps should be 6 or 7 hp/s with a repair boost in the high
That would result in armor plates being better at repairing than shields. I think you keep reppers where they are and add a rep module in the highs (similar to shields-extenders and rechargers in highs, regulator in lows), and then armor is equal in tanking capabilities to shield from a module accessibility count
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
382
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Use amarr logi, all complex reppers in lows, be an active armour tanker
The idea is there would be a 1 second delay after taking fire so that armor couldn't repair faster than people could deal damage, but in essence the idea of using reppers in the lows and boosters in the highs would be perfect for the gallente assault, as they already have high base HP
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
216
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
i said 6 or 7 hp/s, armor reps (gal assault) TOO slow
it would help 1 rep build a little, make the rep skill bonus better, and made armor viable alone and make shields get a buff
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
382
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:i said 6 or 7 hp/s, armor reps (gal assault) TOO slow
it would help 1 rep build a little, make the rep skill bonus better, and made armor viable alone and make shields get a buff
ill give you 6. I just did the math and 6 seems to be a good number for proto, if the boosters are 25% in the highs, but this in now way helps shields, unless you are saying that you agree with my big post, in which case i say thank you sir for seeing the light
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
2016
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
TO OP:
Just try straight shield tanking in PC and see what happens...
Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset
I Slay, for thy Empress
Do you even PC... Brah
|
|
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shadow drake35
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
35
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:I'm not talking about skill, But the play style of an armor tanker in general. People say that they are overpowered because of how everyone occasionally runs into one, or a group of armor tankers that are actually trying to do the one thing we can do naturally. Heal.
If they did not have the healing equipment, they would be easy pickings. Its self evident by how rare it is to actually see an armor tanker sit on a rep hive, or have a logi backing them. theres also a safety factor. Shield tankers can gocamywhere they want, and will never have to worry about their shield recharge failing them. Whereas an armor tanker is screwed out in the open. He would have to leave healing hotspots around to stay alive. We don't have to do that.
can b if you have proto amror other not big help and if you have a proto sout
The Mercenary Way
Who cares about race as long as the job is done and i get paid.
|
Morathi III
Policeman of the Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:32:00 -
[72] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:TO OP:
Just try straight shield tanking in PC and see what happens...
melted by SCR rifle and pistol lol |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
664
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
Complex extenders are bad on any non-Caldari suit when compared to damage mods. You see Armor tankers more because that's the only tanking option available if you're not Caldari. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
383
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:20:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ill post it again, just for easy reading. This solves everything
MODULES
The main modules that need their effectiveness reduced in comparison to other modules are MLT, STD, and ADV armor plates (non-variant), and damage mods. CCP plans on nerfing damage mods, so i will not comment on that
these are some possible buffs to reduce armor and shield disparity-
STD: (75 armor, 3 PG, 10 CPU) vs (33 shields, 2 PG, 15 CPU)
ADV: (100 armor, 6 PG, 20 CPU) vs (55 shields, 4 PG, 36 CPU)
PRO: (135 armor, 12 PG, 30 CPU) vs (70 shields, 8 PG, 54 CPU)
if anything, the ludicrous costs of shield extenders need to be lowered especially in the pg departments for 3 reasons-
1. At proto level, (their only useful level), they only cost 1 pg less than proto plates, but 24 more cpu
2. Shield tankers (minmitar/caldari) have very low pg, but high cpu
3. Biotic modules which are supposed to be coupled with shields to create a hit and run style of suit cost the most pg of any module in the game, making them unfittable if the user also wants to stack shields
In addition, Caldari and minmitar suits need an innate buff to shield recharge delay (not depleted) and recharge rate of about 15-25%
ARMOR ALSO NEEDS A BUFF
The penalties for movement speed for all plates are backwards in my opinion, and is part of the reason no one uses anything past ADV plates. A solution for this would be to make the penalty constant across all tiers, possibly a 3-4% penalty depending on common opinion. Also, ferroscales and reactive plates are a joke, and i dont even use armor. I think that ferroscales need a slight buff hp wise (5% ish), but should also have very low fitting costs. Reactive plates should have a lower penalty than other plates (1-2%), and have 1/2/3 hp/s respectively for each tier. Also, they are in need of a lower fitting cost by a lot like ferroscales. Also, armor repairers should be moved to high slots. I currently think it is unfair to armor tankers that shield tankers are able to use both high and low slots to tank their suit, while armor tankers must only use low slots.
-proposed buff for armor repairers- move to a high slot, or instead just add a high module that bonuses armor regen
-Armor repair, however, should not work while taking fire, in other words, add a 1 sec delay after taking fire to armor repair
-OTHER MODULES- kincats should affect strafing speed, codebreakers need a lower cpu/pg cost
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
4350
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Why are there so many scrubs directly comparing armor to shields.
Ok I'll do the same since shields are doing it for armor .
"It's unfair that Shields get massive passive regain and mobility" - excerpt from my short Novel, The plight of Armor Tankers.
You can't run both suits the same way so I'm not seeing an issue.
Just seeing shield tankers not getting their way after being spoiled for 1+ year
still that 22 hp can still let you survive one more round. Example, your suit by itself can take x AR bullets it can almost take x +1 but it's just a few hp underneath it. That 22 hp plate now lets you take that extra bullet. inb4 shield tankers argue that point with armor tactics in mind.
The only issue I'm seeing here is damage mods, and from the looks of all the current Caldari weapons in the games, you guys have your 2 Complex Damage mods built into the gun. i got in a shield suit in sep october for armor guess which one's better
what suit then. If you say assault I know youre a joke
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
383
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:NK Scout wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Why are there so many scrubs directly comparing armor to shields.
Ok I'll do the same since shields are doing it for armor .
"It's unfair that Shields get massive passive regain and mobility" - excerpt from my short Novel, The plight of Armor Tankers.
You can't run both suits the same way so I'm not seeing an issue.
Just seeing shield tankers not getting their way after being spoiled for 1+ year
still that 22 hp can still let you survive one more round. Example, your suit by itself can take x AR bullets it can almost take x +1 but it's just a few hp underneath it. That 22 hp plate now lets you take that extra bullet. inb4 shield tankers argue that point with armor tactics in mind.
The only issue I'm seeing here is damage mods, and from the looks of all the current Caldari weapons in the games, you guys have your 2 Complex Damage mods built into the gun. i got in a shield suit in sep october for armor guess which one's better what suit then. If you say assault I know youre a joke
They are 2 different play styles, so one is not necessarily better than the other, it is just that the play style involved with armor has a much larger niche than the play style involved with shields, and can fill shields niche as well with ease, while the inverse is not true
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
HYENAKILLER X
AGGRESSIVE TYPE
539
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
How rediculous can the op get?
Im Gallente. You only can armor tank.
Stop posting on forums.
You are welcome for my leadership.
Proven Aggressive Type
I have spoken.
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
383
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 21:24:00 -
[78] - Quote
he just wants to make the point that armor and shield tanking is different, even if shield tanking is underperforming
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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