So...
Assault Rifle: Easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, but the shortest range. Defeats shield tankers.
Scrambler Rifle: Hardest to use. Excels in one on one combat, and has good range. Completely obliterates shields.
Rail Rifle: Second easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, while having the best range. Defeats armor.
Combat Rifle: Second hardest to use. Second best at one on one combat, and has good range. Good against all types.

Is that about right?

Switch AR and RR around in terms as easiest to use.. Then you are prefect

Combat is good against armor hybrid is both so RR is good against shields and armor combat rifle is only good against armor.

AR:
Bigger Magazine (+)
Faster RoF (+)
NO kick (+)

RR:
Small Charge ( - )
Better Hipfire (+)
Slower RoF ( - )

The AR is easier to use. The RR is better overall. These two things are not the same.

No.
AR: +10% shield damage, -10% armor damage
CR: -5% shield damage, +10% armor damage
RR: -10% shield damage, +10% armor damage
ScR: +20% shield damage, -20% armor damage

The Combat Rifle is good against everything.

So...
Assault Rifle: Easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, but the shortest range. Defeats shield tankers.
Scrambler Rifle: Hardest to use. Excels in one on one combat, and has good range. Completely obliterates shields.
Rail Rifle: Second easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, while having the best range. Defeats armor.
Combat Rifle: Second hardest to use. Second best at one on one combat, and has good range. Good against all types.

Is that about right?
EDIT: The combat rifle is the jack of all trades, but the AR needs to have a little more damage in this meta game, or the Rail Rifle needs a 1.5 second charge up time.

What about laser rifles? Where is the non effective agaisnt armor part? You get melted in a few seconds.

So...
Assault Rifle: Easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, but the shortest range. Defeats shield tankers.
Scrambler Rifle: Hardest to use. Excels in one on one combat, and has good range. Completely obliterates shields.
Rail Rifle: Second easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, while having the best range. Defeats armor.
Combat Rifle: Second hardest to use. Second best at one on one combat, and has good range. Good against all types.

Is that about right?
EDIT: The combat rifle is the jack of all trades, but the AR needs to have a little more damage in this meta game, or the Rail Rifle needs a 1.5 second charge up time.

What about laser rifles? Where is the non effective agaisnt armor part? You get melted in a few seconds.

AR:
Bigger Magazine (+)
Faster RoF (+)
NO kick (+)

RR:
Small Charge ( - )
Better Hipfire (+)
Slower RoF ( - )

The AR is easier to use. The RR is better overall. These two things are not the same.

The Laser Rifle is an Amarr specific weapon, and thus doesn't count in terms of these rifle balancing. As for the other thingy, I decided to not put that in.

Take your AR into an all RR fig-... Oh wait... I do that almost everyday..

Why punish rail rifles? They are specificaly used for range.

AR has a bigger mag but RR has more damage per clip. RoF differences don't mean anything because the DPS is the same. The only good thing the AR has is the low kick but because it's not a long range weapons it's kinda useless.

Laser Rifles are capable of insane DPS (like 5000+ DPS) but are only effective in the 65-80m range, and have to heat up to do any real damage.

RR is better. AR is easier to use. There is a difference.
The RR does need a nerf however. So does the CR.

Lol Shield v Armor doesn't matter to Rifles. Scrambler Rifle is supposedly weak against Armor, yet it melts Armor tankers all the same.

Lol Shield v Armor doesn't matter to Rifles. Scrambler Rifle is supposedly weak against Armor, yet it melts Armor tankers all the same.

Lol Shield v Armor doesn't matter to Rifles. Scrambler Rifle is supposedly weak against Armor, yet it melts Armor tankers all the same.

Higher RoF increases your chances to hit the enemy, and generally make for a easier to use weapon. We aren't comparing their stats here(RR is better), we are comparing their ease of use(AR is easier). FPS 101, guy...

In a normal fps a high rof weapon is better than low rof since you "overehelm" the enemy. In a strafe shooter a low rof weapon is better since your harder bullets have a higher chance to hit in between pauses.

I agree with you on the nerf my scouts cry :(

The CQC argument about RRs are nothing more than QQs about them dying to it. And frankly, it's already tiring.

I'm sounding like a broken record here but what people don't understand is that a merc who learns his rifle through and through will optimize its usage and maximize is lethality.

Mercs are going into CQC battles expecting to win against the RR because it isn't supposed to be good. But player skill will help boost its potential in the CQC. The no respect attitude for this most likely probability has drawn people to state that the RR needs a nerf of some sorts

These are the same folks who cried that AR needed a nerf and now they are saying it needs a buff. They are not looking at the picture objectively.

I'm of the opinion that all Rifles need an overheat mechanism or a clip size reduction to put a cap on the DPS it is able to achieve. It would make them more reliant on side-arms, and prevent them from being able to take down X amount of people alone. This would also help fix the "slayer Logi"; they would be without a sidearm and extremely vulnerable alone.

What about laser rifles? Where is the non effective agaisnt armor part? You get melted in a few seconds.

Assault rifle - best of the "assault" varients against shield tankers, struggles in long range like the other "assault" rifles its varients pick up the slack in this area but are the weaker of the longer ranged rifles as well.

Combat rifle - assault varient is king against anything with high amounts of armor, lower range means you have to get in close but if you use a minmatar suit with it thats not really a problem. the regular varient has the range lacking int he assault and excels in hit and run tactics, ducking in and out of cover, struggles in all out firefights against the other rifles if its not able to dodge enough fire to make up for it. the High ROF on the assault varient means your clip and ammo drain REALLY fast, meaning you can oftin catch the CB wielder on a reload or force a switch to a secondary

Rail rifle - worst in CQC the slow ROF means every missed shot is a bigger loss of dps then the rest, the spool up time means every time you let go of the trigger due to the target weaving in and out of cover is a potential opening for the target to get some free shots in. the assault varient mitigates the dps loss of missed shots but not the spool up time. this is the best at long ranges, but it needs to leverage that range at all times to keep its edge.

Scrambler - the power is in the first shot if that shot misses your left with alot of heat build up and nothing to show for it, this rifle cannot deal with sustained fire, it is the best on ammo however and will rarely get caught in a reload, the assault varient is the best anti- shield assaults there is, but against an armored foe it lacks the punch needed to win a strait up fight making the gallante rifle a better choice in most cases.

So...
Assault Rifle: Easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, but the shortest range. Defeats shield tankers.
Scrambler Rifle: Hardest to use. Excels in one on one combat, and has good range. Completely obliterates shields.
Rail Rifle: Second easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, while having the best range. Defeats armor.
Combat Rifle: Second hardest to use. Second best at one on one combat, and has good range. Good against all types.

Is that about right?
EDIT: The combat rifle is the jack of all trades, but the AR needs to have a little more damage in this meta game, or the Rail Rifle needs a 1.5 second charge up time.

AR:
Bigger Magazine (+)
Faster RoF (+)
NO kick (+)

RR:
Small Charge ( - )
Better Hipfire (+)
Slower RoF ( - )

The AR is easier to use. The RR is better overall. These two things are not the same.

strafe shooter. Lol. This is the only game I've seen with hit detection and aiming so poor dancing in front of your enemy is considered a skill.

Define bigger magazine. If by bigger magazine you use damage per magazine, well the RR wins that.
And since when is slower ROF a downside? All that matters is DPS, which the normal rail rifle loses out by 3 DPS vs the assault rifle. The assault rail rifle out DPS es the Ar.

You also have roughly half a second lonet spray and pray time over the Ar. The RR rate of fire would only be an issue if its DPS wasn't so high.
The recharge delay is shorter then the time it takes to say 1 miss when you say 1mississippi.

AR:
Bigger Magazine (+)
Faster RoF (+)
NO kick (+)

RR:
Small Charge ( - )
Better Hipfire (+)
Slower RoF ( - )

The AR is easier to use. The RR is better overall. These two things are not the same.

Well here is my List:
Bigger Magazine (+)
Faster RoF (+)
Range (-)
Damage per shot (-)
Damage per clip (-)
easy to manage kick (+)

RR:
Small Charge ( - )
Better Hipfire (+)
Slower RoF ( - )
Damage per shot (+)
Damage per clip (+)
Range (+)

All in all I would say the RR is easier in more situations...

AR:
Bigger Magazine (+)
Faster RoF (+)
NO kick (+)

RR:
Small Charge ( - )
Better Hipfire (+)
Slower RoF ( - )

The AR is easier to use. The RR is better overall. These two things are not the same.

Should try using the AR before saying it has no kick.

Should try using the AR before saying it has no kick.

You are confusing easier to use with more efficient. Damage per shot has no effect on how easy something is to use, neither does damage per clip. Those two things purely affect its efficacy.
I will admit to forgetting range, but its effects on ease of use are small.

Things that do effect ease of use:
RoF (the more the easier)
Hitscan or not
Magazine Size (bigger magazines are easier, as they promote pray 'n spray)
Reload Speed
Kick
Charge Times
Heat Factors
Range
Projectile Drop
Projectile Speed
Splash Radius
Hipfire Dispersion (not too tight, not too loose)
Strange Qualities (such as the Laser's backwards damage profile)

All of these things also affect efficacy.

Things that purely affect efficacy:

DPS
Damage per Shot
Damage per Reload
Splash Damage

And yet, it was the most funniest shooter I've ever played when you could do that.

Not many look at things objectively. They let their emotions and in game experiences cloud their judgement too much. Balancing items in games is more than just stats, you have to look at how an item will be used, and what it will be used with, rather than how much it is used. High usage of an item usually points to a high ease of use to efficacy ratio, rather than it being OP.

Switch AR and RR around in terms as easiest to use.. Then you are prefect

CR is the easiest to use... Just saying....

So...
Scrambler Rifle: best weapon, complete obliterates eveyrthing despite -20% damage to armor. ability to one shot suits with its charged shot into the head and able to spill out 900dps.

Math time everyone!
Everyone seems to think higher ROF = easier to use because of higher margin of error.
This is true in most cases, however n the great RR vs AR debate it isn't, in fact the rail rifles lower rate of fire gives it the edge. I use the basic RR and AR for this comparison.

The damage per clip is the primary number to keep in mind for your ease of use, as well as hose time (amount of time firing with full auto)

Ar stats: 435 DPS, damage per clip: 2040 , 12.5 rounds per second, 60 rounds per magazine, hose time 4.8
RR stats: 432 DPS, damage per clip: 2400, 6.66 rounds per second, 42 rounds per magazine, hose time 5.6

At the start of an engagement if an RR and AR pull the trigger at the same time, the AR inflicts 108 damage while the RR spools up
At the 4.8 second mark {when AR must reload} the damage output stands at AR: 2040, RR 1932. For an additional 1.05 seconds past this mark, the RR outputs an additional 468 DPS. (Still assuming both started firing at the same time). This means it is easier-áto use in a spray and pray capacity, which is easiest way to use a weapon.

Then, this is the important part, there is the effect missed bullets have, which is the main reason the rail rifles rate of fire makes it easier vs the AR high rate of fire.

For every 1 second off target, when bullets hit nothing, the AR loses 21.3% of its total posible damage from its magazine.
The RR, in contrast, loses only 18% of its total possible damage per magazine in 1 second.
This gives the rail or rifle roughly a 3.3% higher degree of error over one second, meaning it can afford to miss more (yet has higher hip fire accuracy)


Over a 4.8 second engagement, a rail rifle can afforrd to miss 15.8% (roughly 6 shots} more of the Tim then AR, and still inflict the roughly the same damage(less 108 damage from spool up lag, if you factor that in the rail rifle still can miss roughly 10.6% more of the time}. It then inflicts more damage after this point, while the AR reloads.

So in the ease of use, though AR and rail rifle are close, the rail wins.

Now an AR can beat it, since it doesn't have to keep firing unlike the rail rifle, it can fire in bursts. But in spray and pray conditions, the easiest way to use any weapon, the Rail rifle has the edge. Then let's add on the range, etc etc. Making rails the "easier" weapon to use. They don't have to get within 37m to do max damage, have a higher degree of error, and allow them to output more DPS. As a lot of people don't factor in reloads, but a rail rifles sustained DPS actually outclasses the AR as well.

I apologize for the math, but I'm so tired of everyone saying its ROF is a negative for the rail rifle vs other rifles, when really, it isn't.

For those interested in the sustained DPS here it is. Sustained DPS means its damage output with reload factored in. Using the above stats and the additional reload spoad stats AR: 3 seconds RR 3.2 leaving a difference of .2 however the RR gains an additional .8 seconds of fire over the AR before reloading. Subtract the .2 difference in reload speed and you are left with .6. So the RR receives an extra .6 seconds per firing cycle

Example: rail rifle firing continuously over 60 second. Would have to reload 6 times. Total time firing: 40.8 seconds= 17625 damager per minute

Assault rifle firing continuously for 1 minute. Reloads 7 times: total time firing= 39 seconds. 16956 damage per minute

16956/17625

And yes I know, neither weapon has enough base ammunition capacity to sustain fire for a minute. I'll be factoring ammunition capacity in my own mega thread I'm about to start eventually.

Take the CR, ScR, put them aside. They're ok. Maybe OP compared to anything but the other 2 rifles but that's another discussion.

AR: Make it shorter range with a higher ROF/DPS/whatever than currently. It's a gallente weapon.

RR: Arck stop trying to protect your weapon with that outdated argument. Smart players have figured out by now that the RR is good in CQC, they aren't vastly underestimating it and rushing people blindly. The spool-up time needs to be increased, at the very least it should spool up more slowly with hipfire. DPS maybe can stay the same, I think the spool up time is more important.

(btw, everyone consider this: The RR originally had a 25% SHORTER spool time).

I agree 100%. But because people still say the Scrambler Rifle is OP, which it is if you have a lot of skill, decrease the damage by 5%. The reason the RoF needs to stay is because it gives you more freedom when firing. You can fire slowly when if you are managing your heat build up, or fire fast in a tight situation, however you will have to wait to kill somebody else, or switch to a sidearm.

A while back I was having a discussion with someone about the ScR and I proposed that if the spam was seen as the issue you could decrease the damage of the uncharged shots but increase the multiplier so charged shots would still be devastating and it would promote the use of tactical firing and give more room for the AScR to be the genuine alternative.

So...
Assault Rifle: Easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, but the shortest range. Defeats shield tankers.
Scrambler Rifle: Hardest to use. Excels in one on one combat, and has good range. Completely obliterates shields.
Rail Rifle: Second easiest to use. Good against multiple targets, while having the best range. Defeats armor.
Combat Rifle: Second hardest to use. Second best at one on one combat, and has good range. Good against all types.

Is that about right?
EDIT: The combat rifle is the jack of all trades, but the AR needs to have a little more damage in this meta game, or the Rail Rifle needs a 1.5 second charge up time.

u just drop down from tree RR wit 1.5 sec charge this is not a Sniper rifle

I don't see the problem. It wouldn't lose it's long range effectiveness. And hey, people might use the laser again.

1.5 is a bit much. I was thinking more like 0.3-0.35, unless you were to go down the same spool up with ADS but higher with hipfire argument, then 0.5 or higher might work for hipfire only.

0.5 would be fine, but the reason I want it higher is because of the passive skill.

Take the CR, ScR, put them aside. They're ok. Maybe OP compared to anything but the other 2 rifles but that's another discussion.

AR: Make it shorter range with a higher ROF/DPS/whatever than currently. It's a gallente weapon.

RR: Arck stop trying to protect your weapon with that outdated argument. Smart players have figured out by now that the RR is good in CQC, they aren't vastly underestimating it and rushing people blindly. The spool-up time needs to be increased, at the very least it should spool up more slowly with hipfire. DPS maybe can stay the same, I think the spool up time is more important.

(btw, everyone consider this: The RR originally had a 25% SHORTER spool time).

still funny how exactly the same guys who defended the op-ar in the last months now cry all over the forums how sadly badly its supposed to be underpowered. just grab another gun, same advice you spread out like crazy back in the day

The AR is short as is why make it shorter, Nerf all weapons but AR the least, then Scr, then CR, then RR nerfed the most