What about laser rifles? Where is the non effective agaisnt armor part? You get melted in a few seconds.

Why punish rail rifles? They are specificaly used for range.

RR is better. AR is easier to use. There is a difference.
The RR does need a nerf however. So does the CR.

Lol Shield v Armor doesn't matter to Rifles. Scrambler Rifle is supposedly weak against Armor, yet it melts Armor tankers all the same.

I agree with you on the nerf my scouts cry :(

I'm of the opinion that all Rifles need an overheat mechanism or a clip size reduction to put a cap on the DPS it is able to achieve. It would make them more reliant on side-arms, and prevent them from being able to take down X amount of people alone. This would also help fix the "slayer Logi"; they would be without a sidearm and extremely vulnerable alone.

Math time everyone!
Everyone seems to think higher ROF = easier to use because of higher margin of error.
This is true in most cases, however n the great RR vs AR debate it isn't, in fact the rail rifles lower rate of fire gives it the edge. I use the basic RR and AR for this comparison.

The damage per clip is the primary number to keep in mind for your ease of use, as well as hose time (amount of time firing with full auto)

Ar stats: 435 DPS, damage per clip: 2040 , 12.5 rounds per second, 60 rounds per magazine, hose time 4.8
RR stats: 432 DPS, damage per clip: 2400, 6.66 rounds per second, 42 rounds per magazine, hose time 5.6

At the start of an engagement if an RR and AR pull the trigger at the same time, the AR inflicts 108 damage while the RR spools up
At the 4.8 second mark {when AR must reload} the damage output stands at AR: 2040, RR 1932. For an additional 1.05 seconds past this mark, the RR outputs an additional 468 DPS. (Still assuming both started firing at the same time). This means it is easier-áto use in a spray and pray capacity, which is easiest way to use a weapon.

Then, this is the important part, there is the effect missed bullets have, which is the main reason the rail rifles rate of fire makes it easier vs the AR high rate of fire.

For every 1 second off target, when bullets hit nothing, the AR loses 21.3% of its total posible damage from its magazine.
The RR, in contrast, loses only 18% of its total possible damage per magazine in 1 second.
This gives the rail or rifle roughly a 3.3% higher degree of error over one second, meaning it can afford to miss more (yet has higher hip fire accuracy)


Over a 4.8 second engagement, a rail rifle can afforrd to miss 15.8% (roughly 6 shots} more of the Tim then AR, and still inflict the roughly the same damage(less 108 damage from spool up lag, if you factor that in the rail rifle still can miss roughly 10.6% more of the time}. It then inflicts more damage after this point, while the AR reloads.

So in the ease of use, though AR and rail rifle are close, the rail wins.

Now an AR can beat it, since it doesn't have to keep firing unlike the rail rifle, it can fire in bursts. But in spray and pray conditions, the easiest way to use any weapon, the Rail rifle has the edge. Then let's add on the range, etc etc. Making rails the "easier" weapon to use. They don't have to get within 37m to do max damage, have a higher degree of error, and allow them to output more DPS. As a lot of people don't factor in reloads, but a rail rifles sustained DPS actually outclasses the AR as well.

I apologize for the math, but I'm so tired of everyone saying its ROF is a negative for the rail rifle vs other rifles, when really, it isn't.

For those interested in the sustained DPS here it is. Sustained DPS means its damage output with reload factored in. Using the above stats and the additional reload spoad stats AR: 3 seconds RR 3.2 leaving a difference of .2 however the RR gains an additional .8 seconds of fire over the AR before reloading. Subtract the .2 difference in reload speed and you are left with .6. So the RR receives an extra .6 seconds per firing cycle

Example: rail rifle firing continuously over 60 second. Would have to reload 6 times. Total time firing: 40.8 seconds= 17625 damager per minute

Assault rifle firing continuously for 1 minute. Reloads 7 times: total time firing= 39 seconds. 16956 damage per minute

16956/17625

And yes I know, neither weapon has enough base ammunition capacity to sustain fire for a minute. I'll be factoring ammunition capacity in my own mega thread I'm about to start eventually.

Take the CR, ScR, put them aside. They're ok. Maybe OP compared to anything but the other 2 rifles but that's another discussion.

AR: Make it shorter range with a higher ROF/DPS/whatever than currently. It's a gallente weapon.

RR: Arck stop trying to protect your weapon with that outdated argument. Smart players have figured out by now that the RR is good in CQC, they aren't vastly underestimating it and rushing people blindly. The spool-up time needs to be increased, at the very least it should spool up more slowly with hipfire. DPS maybe can stay the same, I think the spool up time is more important.

(btw, everyone consider this: The RR originally had a 25% SHORTER spool time).

A while back I was having a discussion with someone about the ScR and I proposed that if the spam was seen as the issue you could decrease the damage of the uncharged shots but increase the multiplier so charged shots would still be devastating and it would promote the use of tactical firing and give more room for the AScR to be the genuine alternative.

u just drop down from tree RR wit 1.5 sec charge this is not a Sniper rifle

1.5 is a bit much. I was thinking more like 0.3-0.35, unless you were to go down the same spool up with ADS but higher with hipfire argument, then 0.5 or higher might work for hipfire only.

still funny how exactly the same guys who defended the op-ar in the last months now cry all over the forums how sadly badly its supposed to be underpowered. just grab another gun, same advice you spread out like crazy back in the day