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Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
565
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
'Understanding the sniper in Dust 514 first requires unlearning everything you have experienced as a sniper in 99 percent of shooters. It was CCPs intention to turn the shooter upside down by replacing casual mechanics with tactical ones in what was first described as 'the most hardcore shooter ever' by the former EP. Most casual shooters that try to implement objective based gameplay find themselves polluted with what we call the 'toxic sniper' simply put, this is the player who is only concerned with his KDR and seeks out the most low risk, high reward gameplay he can find.'
read the rest here: http://tinyurl.com/pblbgj5 |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8146
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 22:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
306
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
if u think 99% of snipers are behind the redline and with the hit detection/render issues its as easy as point/click u have zero opinion about anything relating to snipers. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
301
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline. Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as scope sway, etc.
sorry but this right here means u should stop typing. sawy has been in from the beginning. do u even snipe bro?
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Teilka Darkmist
19
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry.
I agree that redline snipers should all be killed, but saying it's 99% is exaggerating it far too much. Personally when I'm sniping I'm more often found nearer the opposing teams redline than my own.
Bullet drop and target leading are negated by the speed of the bullets. They travel at around 2 kilometers a second. The couple of hundred meters they have to travel are such a small fraction of a second that the target doesn't have chance to move far enough for leading to matter and there's not enough time for drop to be significant.
We already have scope sway, unless you're crouched and therefore bracing the rifle, which would at worst reduce sway at best eliminate it. Personally I think a sniper should go prone rather than crouch, but I since that would affect only players with a single type of weapon I can understand why they haven't added it, there's more important things to work on first.
Also the hit detection on a sniper rifle is appalling. I can have my scope lined up on the head of a target, have it turn red even and then have the system decide I completely missed and there be no damage to my target.
Snipers don't need increased damage, we need better hit detection and a frakking zoom on at least advanced and prototype scopes. Ever tried to hit something that's considerably smaller than what you have to use to aim?
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8147
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:if u think 99% of snipers are behind the redline and with the hit detection/render issues its as easy as point/click u have zero opinion about anything relating to snipers.
99% of snipers ARE behind the redline.
And hit detection and rendering isn't a valid excuse for wanting a buff for a class - just ask for the bugs fixed.
If you think that without the bugs sniping would be any more than point and click you're bigging yourself up far too much.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Beck Weathers
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
357
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Likewise feel that redline isues need worked on before snipers. I have ran into a few snipers that moved around the battle field, and while they are easy to kill when they are in tunnel vision mode I have mad respect for them.
I think If they was some sort of deployable active scanner that sent out a pulse every 10 sec out to 30m snipers would come alittle closer since they would be harder to sneak up on. Also would ahve many other fun uses. |
Tyjus Vacca
Valor Coalition
121
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry.
Bro Im all for making snipers more skilled but if your gonna give it bullet drop a headshots gotta kill no matter what and I dont think that meduim frames and heavies will be to fond of that .......... p.s. the dmg would have to be like 300 at std with 250% headshot bonus
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8147
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry. I agree that redline snipers should all be killed, but saying it's 99% is exaggerating it far too much. Personally when I'm sniping I'm more often found nearer the opposing teams redline than my own. Bullet drop and target leading are negated by the speed of the bullets. They travel at around 2 kilometers a second. The couple of hundred meters they have to travel are such a small fraction of a second that the target doesn't have chance to move far enough for leading to matter and there's not enough time for drop to be significant. We already have scope sway, unless you're crouched and therefore bracing the rifle, which would at worst reduce sway at best eliminate it. Personally I think a sniper should go prone rather than crouch, but I since that would affect only players with a single type of weapon I can understand why they haven't added it, there's more important things to work on first. Also the hit detection on a sniper rifle is appalling. I can have my scope lined up on the head of a target, have it turn red even and then have the system decide I completely missed and there be no damage to my target. Snipers don't need increased damage, we need better hit detection and a frakking zoom on at least advanced and prototype scopes. Ever tried to hit something that's considerably smaller than what you have to use to aim?
Intelligent response.
I suggested bullet drop and target leading because I feel that sniping should be more rewarding for people who can use the weapon skilfully, and that provides a mechanic for them to do so. Although the bullets may travel at 2 km/s, from some distance out that is still a short delay before hitting the target. At a 200m range, it's going to take .1 of a second to hit the target. In that time, the bullet would have dropped a shade under a metre, so in addition to target leading it would be something that good players could compensate for in order to get a high reward (hence a higher damage on the sniper).
As for hit detection, I absolutely agree. Nobody should have bad hit detection. There is no excuse for it, and balancing around bad hit detection is insane.
I'm not sure what you mean by zoom on the scopes though. Do you mean a variable zoom for really long distance sniping? Because I'm afraid I have to disagree there. The justification for being able to sit at a really long range is that you have to aim carefully to hit.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8148
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tyjus Vacca wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry. Bro Im all for making snipers more skilled but if your gonna give it bullet drop a headshots gotta kill no matter what and I dont think that meduim frames and heavies will be to fond of that .......... p.s. the dmg would have to be like 300 at std with 250% headshot bonus
I would have no problem with this. If you've got bullet drop and target leading, scoring a headshot is not exactly easy.
Of course, I imagine others will have a different opinion. But frankly if I get headshotted with bullet drop and target leading that sniper damned well deserved that kill.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
2811
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rails do not have bullet drop.
If they did, they would not be rails.
The sniper rifle is a rail.
Bullet drop on the PRECISION RIFLE would make sense. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8148
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Rails do not have bullet drop.
If they did, they would not be rails.
The sniper rifle is a rail.
Bullet drop on the PRECISION RIFLE would make sense.
Eh?
A railgun uses electromagnetic fields to propel its projectile. It is still a projectile based weapon. It is firing a solid chunk of matter that is affected by gravity and takes time to travel.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Tch Tch
Red Shirts Away Team
170
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Make it you have to be in the war zone to get WP.
Redzone you can move and pad your KDR, but no WP.
Also when the kill feed goes up tag it with an * or different colour to indicate a kill from the redzone.
For KDR rankings do not include redzone kills in or out.
Want to change gameplay, change the rewards.
Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
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Oswald Rehnquist
1137
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Rails do not have bullet drop.
If they did, they would not be rails.
The sniper rifle is a rail.
Bullet drop on the PRECISION RIFLE would make sense. Eh? A railgun uses electromagnetic fields to propel its projectile. It is still a projectile based weapon. It is firing a solid chunk of matter that is affected by gravity and takes time to travel.
Technically everything has a drop rate even light
This might be an unpopular suggestion, but I'd like a weapon class in the 100-300 range with stronger stopping power.
CCP obviously made a point with point of view blocks, recent map designs that they want their snipers to be mobile (there are still a few spots you can camp).
But a class of long range rifles which are closer to the battle which would require more roaming and kiting tactics, that don't have to be proto with full damage mods or officer status to be remoately effective would be nice. Either a new weapon class or a rebranding of the sniper rifle.
Below 28 dB
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Eko Sol
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
64
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't think there is anything wrong with sniping from the red line. I may swear when I see how far back they are but i'll switch to a cheap fit and run an lav in, get out, and kill them if it's that deep and that important to me. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
2811
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Rails do not have bullet drop.
If they did, they would not be rails.
The sniper rifle is a rail.
Bullet drop on the PRECISION RIFLE would make sense. Eh? A railgun uses electromagnetic fields to propel its projectile. It is still a projectile based weapon. It is firing a solid chunk of matter that is affected by gravity and takes time to travel.
Not with the ranges this game uses at that speed a railgun has to fire. Gravity would not have enough time to remotely effect the projectile. That's what makes the kinetic force of a railgun so devastating in the first place. |
Teilka Darkmist
21
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
99% of snipers ARE behind the redline.
And hit detection and rendering isn't a valid excuse for wanting a buff for a class - just ask for the bugs fixed.
If you think that without the bugs sniping would be any more than point and click you're bigging yourself up far too much.
Not in any match I've played in they're not.
Hit detection and rendering are the main things that snipers are calling for again and again along with variable zoom scopes, which is just realistic considering current day snipers have that availability and this is thousands of years in the future.
Sniping is more than point and click even now, and not just because of the bugs. You have to decide where to set up on the battlefield for best effect in support of your team. You then have to not only keep watch of where your target zone is, you have to keep checking around yourself for people sneaking up on you because whilst you're aiming and shooting, you're forced to be stationary unlike with any other weapon choice in the game. Move and you're pretty much guaranteed to miss.
The slow rate of fire means you're probably only going to get one shot at your target which means that you either have to shoot centre mass when there's someone who can take advantage of the target's shields going down, or you have to headshot to have any hope of bringing the target down.
Add in that most of the maps only give you the smallest of windows onto where the majority of the action actually takes place and that you're lucky if you get more than a split second's warning that a target is going to go past a place where you can actually hit them and it becomes even harder to be effective.
Then, your sniper rifle is only effective at long range so you have to spend at least some of your sp on a secondary weapon reducing your possible effectiveness with your primary weapon even further. Next, as you're busy searching for targets and being stationary, you're not getting WP for taking objectives or healing or through dropping nanohives or drop uplinks.
We're not asking for ccp to make us tank killers or to let us massacre the opposing team from across the map with rapid fire, we're asking for things that make us effective in the role we've chosen to play.
Hit detection so that when we are aimed at a target it hits is the biggest one. Scopes with a zoom (my suggestion would be starting at advanced rifles you get a basic zoom and prototypes you get an improved zoom of some type) so that the centre dot doesn't obscure the entire target and you can actually aim accurately, rendering so we can actually see the targets that are in range.
A bonus to headshot damage isn't essential if we can get these first things but it would make sense because this is a piece of metal travelling at thousands of meters per second. If it hits your head, the force alone should be enough to snap your neck, even without penetration.
Those of us who are actually good snipers know that we're a support role primarily. We just want ccp to give us the tools to do our job properly. The redline snipers will stop doing it when they find it's not profitable for them. They're all about k/d ratio. Improving snipers messes that up as one of our most important functions is counter sniping. If I can see an enemy sniper behind the redline, they're likely to be my first target and at worst they'll be forced to move, in which case I'll keep finding them, at best I'll kill them and they'll quickly get to know that hanging out behind the redline isn't risk free.
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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Cpl Foster USMC
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
508
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
cool blog..
cool topic..
yes on your suggested weapon upgrades...those would be sick....
Lolo Jones.
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Teilka Darkmist
21
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Rails do not have bullet drop.
If they did, they would not be rails.
The sniper rifle is a rail.
Bullet drop on the PRECISION RIFLE would make sense. Eh? A railgun uses electromagnetic fields to propel its projectile. It is still a projectile based weapon. It is firing a solid chunk of matter that is affected by gravity and takes time to travel. Technically everything has a drop rate even light This might be an unpopular suggestion, but I'd like a weapon class in the 100-300 range with stronger stopping power. CCP obviously made a point with point of view blocks, recent map designs that they want their snipers to be mobile (there are still a few spots you can camp). But a class of long range rifles which are closer to the battle which would require more roaming and kiting tactics, that don't have to be proto with full damage mods or officer status to be remoately effective would be nice. Either a new weapon class or a rebranding of the sniper rifle.
I think a high damage, low rate of fire, medium range rifle is a good idea. Especially on the maps we have right now. It would add what is essentially a marksman class. It would be in addition to the sniper class and complementary in a way, the snipers would be about area denial a lot more and the marksman would be more about pinpoint accuracy at closer ranges, like a close support as you're trying to take a building with an uplink inside for example, covering the AR/LR/RR members of the team. i say specifically a low rate of fire as that would balance the higher damage.
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
2812
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Also, I guess I should mention the final answer on this.
The netcode simply does not support bullet drop. This was said a long time ago by some dev. If it was localized to regional servers the way pub matches are, it could be done to an extent, but it simply would never work with FW or PC due to the attachments those matches have to tranquility and the rules they have to follow. |
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Krom Ganesh
Nos Nothi
1293
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
@Arkena
distance to hypothetical target = 200 meters
travel time of flechette = (200m) / (2500m/s) = 0.12s
Acceleration due to gravity of Earth* =9.81m/s^2
Distance bullet has dropped = 0.5 * 9.81 * 0.12^2 = 0.031m (1.22 inches)
*Assuming the planets we fight on have the same gravity as Earth
Bullet drop isn't really worth it.
Travel time is though.
1.8 can't get here soon enough.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8154
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Also, I guess I should mention the final answer on this.
The netcode simply does not support bullet drop. This was said a long time ago by some dev. If it was localized to regional servers the way pub matches are, it could be done to an extent, but it simply would never work with FW or PC due to the attachments those matches have to tranquility and the rules they have to follow.
Unfortunately true.
Dust has never been robust, I shouldn't ask for such things tbh.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Teilka Darkmist
21
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:@At Arkena
distance to hypothetical target = 200 meters
travel time of flechette = (200m) / (2500m/s) = 0.12s
Acceleration due to gravity of Earth* =9.81m/s^2
Distance bullet has dropped = 0.5 * 9.81 * 0.12^2 = 0.031m (1.22 inches)
*Assuming the planets we fight on have the same gravity as Earth
Bullet drop isn't really worth it.
Travel time is though.
You have a good point about travel time, now that I've seen the maths, I admit my comment about leading being irrelevant was a mistaken conclusion.
But if they put leading in before hit detection, rendering and scope zooms, they'll have completely broken the sniper class. We won't be able to hit anything, never mind kill them.
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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Kasira Vorrikesh
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
56
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: At a 200m range, it's going to take .1 of a second to hit the target. In that time, the bullet would have dropped a shade under a metre
I don't want to turn this into a whole "thing", but the notion of bullet drop at 200m is laughable when we're talking about the kind of tech found in Dust. Current rifle ballistics for an average round (.30-06) at 200m would have drop measured in inches, not full feet (or centimeters, certainly not close to a meter).
Also, more importantly, there's the issue of CCP having to make new ballistics rules for, essentially, only one weapon. No other ballistic weapon in the game shoots much beyond 100m; these weapons aren't worth complicating with drop and travel time, again, considering the tech levels and distances. I'm sure CCP made sniper rifle mechanics as simple as they are for this reason; it's much less a pain in the ass for them, and it makes a fair amount of sense in the game world.
The challenging part about using sniper rifles is the extremely poor magnification. Even if hit detection and rendering were made perfect (whatever that is), the current zoom levels would still make sniping challenging (albeit less frustrating). For that reason, I believe the zoom should be kept exactly as it is; it's illogical that futuristic scopes would be that weak, but it's a hell of a lot easier to balance rifles that way, then by implementing dubious physics.
One last thing. For all the people who think sniper rifles should be weakened so that they're only really useful to 200-300m: what you're asking for is marksman or sharpshooter rifles. Conventional modern hunting rifles, straight out of a box with no modification, can easily shoot at those ranges. For military-grade futuristic sniper rifles to be limited to those ranges, is, frankly, bullshit. If CCP didn't want long range rifles, they never should have written the sniper rifle's description, and never should have even labeled a starter fit as "sniper". The word "sniper", in modern and presumably futuristic military parlance, implies extreme range with extreme power; the kind of power a Barrett .50 cal has now. It shoots through brick walls, concrete, and steel plate, at ranges exceeding a kilometer. For a future rifle to be called "sniper", and have inferior performance than current military tech, is misleading and should be changed accordingly, if CCP no longer wants true sniping in the game.
One last, last thing. The idea of punishing redline sniping is about as idiotic as punishing assault rifle users for not getting close enough to their targets; you'd be dictating the terms of how a weapon's to be used. What's the point of having a long-range weapon if you're just going to get close enough to the enemy to be scanned or more easily spotted? These people have no understanding of what the modern (post WWII) sniper role is. They want the role gutted and turned into infantry sharpshooting; if CCP also wants this, fine, but at least change the ******* name then.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
2812
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lets be honest.
In the future, bullet drop shouldn't even be a factor even when we're not talking railguns.
I mean why wouldn't our scopes be able to automatically account for the drop and show us where we need to shoot? |
Jotun Izalaru
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
47
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think making aiming a SR harder is a really bad idea in Strafe 514 where strafing and backpedaling constantly does nothing but improve your game and good players are doing it constantly with no pauses or penalty.
If backpedaling and strafing speeds are where they should be it may not be such a bad idea, but as it is long range and alpha damage weapons are already at a disadvantage and the SR is both. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
227
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:if u think 99% of snipers are behind the redline and with the hit detection/render issues its as easy as point/click u have zero opinion about anything relating to snipers.
mmmmmm as a consistent counter sniper yea most snipers are behind the red line and even when targets are running its point and click.
frankly I would like a lot of the thing the OP is suggesting, not all but most. Though I would personally like to see snipers do barely more then rail rifles with a massive headshot bonus(in the 600% range).
I really kinda like what sniping has turned into lately tho, a lot of sniping has taken the form of keeping the high ground from being used or cleared by the enemy. Its turned into a real tactic instead of obnoxious farming that does not help the team.
still red line issues need to be fixed but thats an other discusion. |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
615
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
I always play sniper because it's the most lulzy role in the game.
But not this game. In this game, it's so bad, I held off sniping for AR and shotty.
The only reason why the guns agent balanced are because there are tiers. Militia snipers are trash outside of Academy. Proto snipers are almost decent anywhere but PC if everyone is tanked to their ass.
Maybe I just miss Resistance 2. The Fareye was my gun. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
227
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:Reiki Jubo wrote:if u think 99% of snipers are behind the redline and with the hit detection/render issues its as easy as point/click u have zero opinion about anything relating to snipers. mmmmmm as a consistent counter sniper yea most snipers are behind the red line and even when targets are running its point and click. frankly I would like a lot of the thing the OP is suggesting, not all but most. Though I would personally like to see snipers do barely more then rail rifles with a massive headshot bonus(in the 600% range). I really kinda like what sniping has turned into lately tho, a lot of sniping has taken the form of keeping the high ground from being used or cleared by the enemy. Its turned into a real tactic instead of obnoxious farming that does not help the team. still red line issues need to be fixed but thats an other discusion.
600%??? yikes. |
Outer Raven
WarRavens
League of Infamy
166
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 09:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dusters Blog wrote:'Understanding the sniper in Dust 514 first requires unlearning everything you have experienced as a sniper in 99 percent of shooters. It was CCPs intention to turn the shooter upside down by replacing casual mechanics with tactical ones in what was first described as 'the most hardcore shooter ever' by the former EP. Most casual shooters that try to implement objective based gameplay find themselves polluted with what we call the 'toxic sniper' simply put, this is the player who is only concerned with his KDR and seeks out the most low risk, high reward gameplay he can find.' read the rest here: http://tinyurl.com/pblbgj5
Nice post didn't expect to find myself in it though. Anyway I can agree with everything you posted, but i'm still apprehensive about damage increases to the weapon.
I would rather test the waters first with the head shot bonus increase, variable zoom, etc., first before tweeks that could potentially cause issues with the inevitable dmg mod stacking. Who knows being able to aim accurately at your opponents figure instead of minuscule pixels at range may put the rifle at least were it needs to be before any thing else.
___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________
GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW
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Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
305
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 13:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
tons of people dont like snipers huh? me either but I still dont support bad hit detection or rendering for anybody |
Scar Scrilla
Cobra Kommando
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 15:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry. I agree that redline snipers should all be killed, but saying it's 99% is exaggerating it far too much. Personally when I'm sniping I'm more often found nearer the opposing teams redline than my own. Bullet drop and target leading are negated by the speed of the bullets. They travel at around 2 kilometers a second. The couple of hundred meters they have to travel are such a small fraction of a second that the target doesn't have chance to move far enough for leading to matter and there's not enough time for drop to be significant. We already have scope sway, unless you're crouched and therefore bracing the rifle, which would at worst reduce sway at best eliminate it. Personally I think a sniper should go prone rather than crouch, but I since that would affect only players with a single type of weapon I can understand why they haven't added it, there's more important things to work on first. Also the hit detection on a sniper rifle is appalling. I can have my scope lined up on the head of a target, have it turn red even and then have the system decide I completely missed and there be no damage to my target. Snipers don't need increased damage, we need better hit detection and a frakking zoom on at least advanced and prototype scopes. Ever tried to hit something that's considerably smaller than what you have to use to aim?
+1 for scope/zoom
It's ridiculous that u have plasma weapons, forge guns, shielded dropsuits and all sorts of futuristic stuff but no zoomable scope on a sniper rifle.
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
Scar Scrilla - Proud Commando User & Cobra Kommander
|
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
1658
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 15:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
I thought for a brief moment the devs were actually acknowledging how crappy the snipers are in dust, -1 for getting my hopes up =( |
trollsroyce
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
681
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 15:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sniping from a "slayer-sniper" perspective:
1) Remove KDR, it's an useless stat.
2) As a sniper, base your thinking objectively on how you can most impact the fight. For me it was "being able to kill as much as possible and to bother the enemy overall efficiency". Some snipers play the objective game and provide intel on it, my approach and niche was a sniper-slayer. I found out that in order to kill most as a sniper, you have to endure counter sniping and not have it affect your field control. You had to be on the tallest mountain in order to see the most of the field. Hence, heavy suit or overtanked armor medium suit with as much damage mods as possible. FOr this my suit of choise since closed beta was heavy with damage mods. This could be changing now with the invisibility.
3) Track your impact with statistics you can monitor, that is, kills per match would be a good one for me. I always aimed to have the most kills possible just because that would mean my impact in that match in my own niche role was meaningful.
4) In PC a sniper is probably still very viable as an overall killer. I don't know how well snipers would really work in PC, because I quit uprising without playing this character due to mouse becoming unplayable. I only know I used to whine like a kid about the closed objective maps hurting sniper impact in tactical corp fights. I still think there should be open objective maps in between, which would shift the gameplay more towards field control and snipers (well rail tanks, who am I kidding). |
Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
212
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 16:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Rails do not have bullet drop.
If they did, they would not be rails.
The sniper rifle is a rail.
Bullet drop on the PRECISION RIFLE would make sense. Eh? A railgun uses electromagnetic fields to propel its projectile. It is still a projectile based weapon. It is firing a solid chunk of matter that is affected by gravity and takes time to travel.
Questions: Are we fighting on earth? What makes all the other weapons so special that they aren't affected by bullet drop, with their final muzzle velocities significantly lower than that of a railgun? |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
546
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Rails do not have bullet drop.
If they did, they would not be rails.
The sniper rifle is a rail.
Bullet drop on the PRECISION RIFLE would make sense. Eh? A railgun uses electromagnetic fields to propel its projectile. It is still a projectile based weapon. It is firing a solid chunk of matter that is affected by gravity and takes time to travel. Questions: Are we fighting on earth? What makes all the other weapons so special that they aren't affected by bullet drop, with their final muzzle velocities significantly lower than that of a railgun?
Those weapons are firing at a closer range. Seriously guys we've got to remember this is a game...game balance comes first. Sniping is too easy, with nothing separating a talented sniper from a bad sniper.
There is no reality in games and you simply do not balance around that. Why do people apply real world physics to weapon ranges but never question people just teleporting inside vehicles? |
Arcanamenides Boltzmann
Em' Deviant Toys
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tch Tch wrote:Want to change gameplay, change the rewards.
Simple yet elegant, YOU've got the hang of it
still let's contemplate the QQing, for the rivers of tears sooth the soul of someone who doesn't give that much of a dam
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hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
233
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Prius Vecht wrote:hgghyujh wrote:Reiki Jubo wrote:if u think 99% of snipers are behind the redline and with the hit detection/render issues its as easy as point/click u have zero opinion about anything relating to snipers. mmmmmm as a consistent counter sniper yea most snipers are behind the red line and even when targets are running its point and click. frankly I would like a lot of the thing the OP is suggesting, not all but most. Though I would personally like to see snipers do barely more then rail rifles with a massive headshot bonus(in the 600% range). I really kinda like what sniping has turned into lately tho, a lot of sniping has taken the form of keeping the high ground from being used or cleared by the enemy. Its turned into a real tactic instead of obnoxious farming that does not help the team. still red line issues need to be fixed but thats an other discusion. 600%??? yikes.
it would have to be to be effective with RR level damage |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
233
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Scar Scrilla wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry. I agree that redline snipers should all be killed, but saying it's 99% is exaggerating it far too much. Personally when I'm sniping I'm more often found nearer the opposing teams redline than my own. Bullet drop and target leading are negated by the speed of the bullets. They travel at around 2 kilometers a second. The couple of hundred meters they have to travel are such a small fraction of a second that the target doesn't have chance to move far enough for leading to matter and there's not enough time for drop to be significant. We already have scope sway, unless you're crouched and therefore bracing the rifle, which would at worst reduce sway at best eliminate it. Personally I think a sniper should go prone rather than crouch, but I since that would affect only players with a single type of weapon I can understand why they haven't added it, there's more important things to work on first. Also the hit detection on a sniper rifle is appalling. I can have my scope lined up on the head of a target, have it turn red even and then have the system decide I completely missed and there be no damage to my target. Snipers don't need increased damage, we need better hit detection and a frakking zoom on at least advanced and prototype scopes. Ever tried to hit something that's considerably smaller than what you have to use to aim? +1 for scope/zoom It's ridiculous that u have plasma weapons, forge guns, shielded dropsuits and all sorts of futuristic stuff but no zoomable scope on a sniper rifle.
its the button layout it doesn't support it, and now I'm gonna be a **** and say thats one of my big problems with games made for console to many compromises need to be made on controls. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
233
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Rails do not have bullet drop.
If they did, they would not be rails.
The sniper rifle is a rail.
Bullet drop on the PRECISION RIFLE would make sense. Eh? A railgun uses electromagnetic fields to propel its projectile. It is still a projectile based weapon. It is firing a solid chunk of matter that is affected by gravity and takes time to travel. Questions: Are we fighting on earth? What makes all the other weapons so special that they aren't affected by bullet drop, with their final muzzle velocities significantly lower than that of a railgun?
snipers are rail weapons, and for some reason ccp likes hit scan. |
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Teilka Darkmist
31
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Posted - 2014.01.22 00:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:Scar Scrilla wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry. I agree that redline snipers should all be killed, but saying it's 99% is exaggerating it far too much. Personally when I'm sniping I'm more often found nearer the opposing teams redline than my own. Bullet drop and target leading are negated by the speed of the bullets. They travel at around 2 kilometers a second. The couple of hundred meters they have to travel are such a small fraction of a second that the target doesn't have chance to move far enough for leading to matter and there's not enough time for drop to be significant. We already have scope sway, unless you're crouched and therefore bracing the rifle, which would at worst reduce sway at best eliminate it. Personally I think a sniper should go prone rather than crouch, but I since that would affect only players with a single type of weapon I can understand why they haven't added it, there's more important things to work on first. Also the hit detection on a sniper rifle is appalling. I can have my scope lined up on the head of a target, have it turn red even and then have the system decide I completely missed and there be no damage to my target. Snipers don't need increased damage, we need better hit detection and a frakking zoom on at least advanced and prototype scopes. Ever tried to hit something that's considerably smaller than what you have to use to aim? +1 for scope/zoom It's ridiculous that u have plasma weapons, forge guns, shielded dropsuits and all sorts of futuristic stuff but no zoomable scope on a sniper rifle. its the button layout it doesn't support it, and now I'm gonna be a **** and say thats one of my big problems with games made for console to many compromises need to be made on controls.
Isn't R3 still free? I could be wrong but I don't remember ever using it for anything in Dust.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
|
Teilka Darkmist
31
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:
Questions: Are we fighting on earth? What makes all the other weapons so special that they aren't affected by bullet drop, with their final muzzle velocities significantly lower than that of a railgun?
No, we're not fighting on Earth. In fact Earth is in an entire other galaxy to the worlds we're fighting on. I get what you actually mean though. It's a not unreasonable assumption that all the planets have roughly the same gravitational force to Earth.
I don't think we know enough about the muzzle velocities of weapons that aren't rails or lasers to speculate whether bullet drop should effect them inside their effective ranges.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Krom Ganesh
Nos Nothi
1307
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Isn't R3 still free? I could be wrong but I don't remember ever using it for anything in Dust.
Of course you haven't used it. It's the melee button. 
How about when ADSing with a sniper rifle, L3 becomes a switch zoom level button? That's what shooters normally do, I believe.
1.8 can't get here soon enough.
|
Eko Sol
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Isn't R3 still free? I could be wrong but I don't remember ever using it for anything in Dust. Of course you haven't used it. It's the melee button. How about when ADSing with a sniper rifle, L3 becomes a switch zoom level button? That's what shooters normally do, I believe.
I melee snipers with my weapon when I find them before I finish them off. Wow, sounds kind of dirty when I say it like that. |
Outer Raven
WarRavens
League of Infamy
167
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:Scar Scrilla wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would feel more sympathy for snipers if 99% of them weren't in the redline.
Personally, I have no objection to more damage if you have things such as bullet drop, target leading, scope sway, etc. Because as it stands presently you can sit miles off with a perfectly still scope, point, and click. It's not massively effective, though it can do some damage, unless you're using a Thale's but there is no risk or skill involved in it.
If that were changed, I think the sniper would be in a more satisfying place.
Right now, though, snipers having much more damage would result in even more matches becoming a contest of redline faggotry. I agree that redline snipers should all be killed, but saying it's 99% is exaggerating it far too much. Personally when I'm sniping I'm more often found nearer the opposing teams redline than my own. Bullet drop and target leading are negated by the speed of the bullets. They travel at around 2 kilometers a second. The couple of hundred meters they have to travel are such a small fraction of a second that the target doesn't have chance to move far enough for leading to matter and there's not enough time for drop to be significant. We already have scope sway, unless you're crouched and therefore bracing the rifle, which would at worst reduce sway at best eliminate it. Personally I think a sniper should go prone rather than crouch, but I since that would affect only players with a single type of weapon I can understand why they haven't added it, there's more important things to work on first. Also the hit detection on a sniper rifle is appalling. I can have my scope lined up on the head of a target, have it turn red even and then have the system decide I completely missed and there be no damage to my target. Snipers don't need increased damage, we need better hit detection and a frakking zoom on at least advanced and prototype scopes. Ever tried to hit something that's considerably smaller than what you have to use to aim? +1 for scope/zoom It's ridiculous that u have plasma weapons, forge guns, shielded dropsuits and all sorts of futuristic stuff but no zoomable scope on a sniper rifle. its the button layout it doesn't support it, and now I'm gonna be a **** and say thats one of my big problems with games made for console to many compromises need to be made on controls.
Well button layout can support it in my opinion. We already have a weapons wheel that you can also pull up while looking through the rifles scope.
On the sniper rifle weapons icon for instance can have another tab that opens up once your on its icon with the varying levels of scope zoom. Anyone you pick changes the magnification but would stay at that level until a new option is picked or you switch weapons.
___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________
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¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Rez Montinegro
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:50:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hey Guys,
Saw this thread and became interested. I am new to the game, and am not a casual shooter kind of guy.
I am transitioning from Battlefield 3 on PS3 and was interested in sniping/piloting here. The dynamics of the game are obviously completely different,
As for sniping the sway is intense for the first few seconds but then it settles down quite a bit and the lack of bullet drop makes head shoting a bit easier however there are times I wish bullet drop was in this game for example when people are crouched behind certain objects with drop you can occasionally sneak the shot in there.
Because of Battlefield (and playing to win not focus on KDR) I am a tactical sniper. I look for targets and call them out, spot, issue warnings, designate (which i don't think exists here?), and over all "that eye in the sky, with a gun". Good snipers do not sit entirely outside of range, but tend to hang back or at least be in the rear/center of the moving force or a nicely defended vantage point. I would say a good sniper is as much about surveillance as it is sniping. A lot of the time i will even just weaken targets from a distance to make it easier for the ground forces to mop up. Anyway that said that's my play style as a sniper.
Can anyone point me towards a build? I don't want to waste my points on something I do not need. I am also interested in piloting, will these builds conflict? should I have a separate character for both? |
Teilka Darkmist
31
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Isn't R3 still free? I could be wrong but I don't remember ever using it for anything in Dust. Of course you haven't used it. It's the melee button. How about when ADSing with a sniper rifle, L3 becomes a switch zoom level button? That's what shooters normally do, I believe.
Right, of course it is. I have actually used it it turns out. To destroy enemy nanohives and avoid wasting ammo.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
|
Eko Sol
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Rez Montinegro wrote:Hey Guys,
Saw this thread and became interested. I am new to the game, and am not a casual shooter kind of guy.
I am transitioning from Battlefield 3 on PS3 and was interested in sniping/piloting here. The dynamics of the game are obviously completely different,
As for sniping the sway is intense for the first few seconds but then it settles down quite a bit and the lack of bullet drop makes head shoting a bit easier however there are times I wish bullet drop was in this game for example when people are crouched behind certain objects with drop you can occasionally sneak the shot in there.
Because of Battlefield (and playing to win not focus on KDR) I am a tactical sniper. I look for targets and call them out, spot, issue warnings, designate (which i don't think exists here?), and over all "that eye in the sky, with a gun". Good snipers do not sit entirely outside of range, but tend to hang back or at least be in the rear/center of the moving force or a nicely defended vantage point. I would say a good sniper is as much about surveillance as it is sniping. A lot of the time i will even just weaken targets from a distance to make it easier for the ground forces to mop up. Anyway that said that's my play style as a sniper.
Can anyone point me towards a build? I don't want to waste my points on something I do not need. I am also interested in piloting, will these builds conflict? should I have a separate character for both?
There is a rookie section that has a lot of good stuff:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=899
You can use the search option and type "Sniper Fit"
That being said, if you haven't spent your points yet I recommend going 3 in snipe and 3 in a medium OR light suit depending on what kind of game you play.
Light suits are more agile and harder to see and detect. Medium suits take a bit more damage. Some even snipe in heavy suits.
In addition, pilots and snipers go hand in hand. One of the best snipers I've seen uses a drop ship to get to crazy places and runs amok on people.
There can't technically be bullet drop because the distances aren't far enough. An inch drop isn't helpful. Anything in excess to this doesn't make very much sense.
Always carry a decent sidearm. Don't ever not have one to save CPU/PG because when a scout starts running toward you and you can't hit it then you will have to fight it head on.
Use nanohives in your equipment slot so that you can replenish your ammo. |
Teilka Darkmist
31
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 01:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rez Montinegro wrote:Hey Guys,
Saw this thread and became interested. I am new to the game, and am not a casual shooter kind of guy.
I am transitioning from Battlefield 3 on PS3 and was interested in sniping/piloting here. The dynamics of the game are obviously completely different,
As for sniping the sway is intense for the first few seconds but then it settles down quite a bit and the lack of bullet drop makes head shoting a bit easier however there are times I wish bullet drop was in this game for example when people are crouched behind certain objects with drop you can occasionally sneak the shot in there.
Because of Battlefield (and playing to win not focus on KDR) I am a tactical sniper. I look for targets and call them out, spot, issue warnings, designate (which i don't think exists here?), and over all "that eye in the sky, with a gun". Good snipers do not sit entirely outside of range, but tend to hang back or at least be in the rear/center of the moving force or a nicely defended vantage point. I would say a good sniper is as much about surveillance as it is sniping. A lot of the time i will even just weaken targets from a distance to make it easier for the ground forces to mop up. Anyway that said that's my play style as a sniper.
Can anyone point me towards a build? I don't want to waste my points on something I do not need. I am also interested in piloting, will these builds conflict? should I have a separate character for both?
There are quite a few threads where bullet drop is discussed. One even has the maths to show that it's so negligible with the speed the projectiles are going and the range anywhere on the map is, that it's not really worth them coding it in. Not for the Sniper rifle at least.
Your play style sounds a lot like what I personally think a good sniper should be in this game, you're right that designating targets doesn't really happen in this game, hopefully at least marking where they are when they've been spotted through a scope gets added at some point, but that's up to CCP. I don't think it's unreasonable that if you can see their name and eHP bars in the scope, your rifle could add their position to the tactical net.
As to builds, I'm not the one to advise you. I spent more than a few SP trying out a few play styles, combine that with RL meaning that I haven't been able to log in much at all until recently and you get someone who has to play about with fittings to get something that works.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
|
VEXation Gunn
Reformed Slaves
361
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 01:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
snipers are nothing but the trash of dust. I am glad all the new maps are making it harder for snipers to exist. Nothing like hiding in the redline in proto suits with 3 damage mods and 800+ehp.
There is no excuse you lot are a bunch of ******. Get rid of redline to start so its easier to hunt down the ****** **** that like ***** ****** in their ****** daily. |
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Outer Raven
WarRavens
League of Infamy
167
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 01:14:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rez Montinegro wrote:Hey Guys,
Saw this thread and became interested. I am new to the game, and am not a casual shooter kind of guy.
I am transitioning from Battlefield 3 on PS3 and was interested in sniping/piloting here. The dynamics of the game are obviously completely different,
As for sniping the sway is intense for the first few seconds but then it settles down quite a bit and the lack of bullet drop makes head shoting a bit easier however there are times I wish bullet drop was in this game for example when people are crouched behind certain objects with drop you can occasionally sneak the shot in there.
Because of Battlefield (and playing to win not focus on KDR) I am a tactical sniper. I look for targets and call them out, spot, issue warnings, designate (which i don't think exists here?), and over all "that eye in the sky, with a gun". Good snipers do not sit entirely outside of range, but tend to hang back or at least be in the rear/center of the moving force or a nicely defended vantage point. I would say a good sniper is as much about surveillance as it is sniping. A lot of the time i will even just weaken targets from a distance to make it easier for the ground forces to mop up. Anyway that said that's my play style as a sniper.
Can anyone point me towards a build? I don't want to waste my points on something I do not need. I am also interested in piloting, will these builds conflict? should I have a separate character for both?
Piloting is your own discretion right now, their are many more skilled players in this area that can guide you if you are interested in this path. There is a pilot suit on the horizon but nothing has been heard of it yet but it will be a light suit. For now if your not thinking of doing too much ground work when using vehicles get a cheap suit, maybe with uplinks if you find a good area to place them and a weapon of your choosing to defend your self.
As for snipers, cloaks are coming around the corner and if you want to be fast, invisible, and able to passively scan anyone approaching your position a scout build may be for you. Other wise if you want a high damage suit with tons of ehp so you can take a shot or three, then you can pick from the assault & heavy suit pool. I would spec into something for general use at this point and wait till 1.8 drops before going full boar into anyone thing just yet though, many of the builds that previously did or didn't work are going to be changing in one way or another in the next build.
For now I would say focus on your weapon get your prototype rifle and its damage proficiency to lvl 5, skilling into damage mods never hurts as well, vehicles aren't a bad bet either at this point but both these paths require deep skill point investments so choose wisely.
___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________
GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW
¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Rez Montinegro
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 01:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback, I opened a thread in the rookie section right after this because I wasn't expecting as helpful of responses as I received here. This community is already in the + for me.
It touches on corps a bit so I don't think it was a complete clone of this thread and I don't mean to be an annoying spammer re-posting the same stuff.
I don't think bullet drop should be added due to the SciFi nature of this game. I mean look at our guns to they really look like they should experience drop? The M98B barely has any drop in BF3 and that's a current generation weapon. |
Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
454
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 01:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:@Arkena
distance to hypothetical target = 200 meters
travel time of flechette = (200m) / (2500m/s) = 0.12s
Acceleration due to gravity of Earth* =9.81m/s^2
Distance bullet has dropped = 0.5 * 9.81 * 0.12^2 = 0.031m (1.22 inches)
*Assuming the planets we fight on have the same gravity as Earth
Bullet drop isn't really worth it.
Travel time is though.
The travel time is 0.08s. Fouth-thousands of a second might not sound like much, but when it comes to leading a target, that's quite a bit.
Incidentally, the bullet drop is still the same using your equation. That makes me curious.
Here you can type your bio.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
252
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Posted - 2014.01.22 01:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
Irrelevancy sounds fine to me....
If the sniper rifle were to disappear from Dust tomorrow, I would shed no tears for its loss.
I'm sorry for saying such a thing to those players who enjoy their sniper rifles, but that's how I feel....Leadfoot |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
2822
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Posted - 2014.01.22 02:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:@Arkena
distance to hypothetical target = 200 meters
travel time of flechette = (200m) / (2500m/s) = 0.12s
Acceleration due to gravity of Earth* =9.81m/s^2
Distance bullet has dropped = 0.5 * 9.81 * 0.12^2 = 0.031m (1.22 inches)
*Assuming the planets we fight on have the same gravity as Earth
Bullet drop isn't really worth it.
Travel time is though. The travel time is 0.08s. Fouth-thousands of a second might not sound like much, but when it comes to leading a target, that's quite a bit. Incidentally, the bullet drop is still the same using your equation. That makes me curious.
You already have to lead the target due to the artificial travel time known as "lag".
The mysterious force known as "lag" is actually more prevalent than gravity.
It simply doesn't appear that way on the client until you stay noticing shots that land, but don't actually land. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1201
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:07:00 -
[56] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Irrelevancy sounds fine to me....
If the sniper rifle were to disappear from Dust tomorrow, I would shed no tears for its loss.
I'm sorry for saying such a thing to those players who enjoy their sniper rifles, but that's how I feel....Leadfoot
This is a sad but true fact.
In its current incarnation the sniper class, if you can call it such, is one upped in all of its capacities by other load outs. For example:
1) Area/objective denial: Tank > Forge > Sniper
2) Identifying enemies: Active Scanner <-- what gun you carry doesn't matter at all since everyone but heavies can tote it about and its info is much better than what you get from someone calling stuff out to you.
3) Killing: any assault type rifle (other than the breach or burst AR) > sniper rifle
Sniping needs a total overhaul to become relevant to the game and should be removed until CCP has it worked out. Right now it is just the crutch of the KDR lovers and noobs afraid of loosing suits.
Please note that I do feel that there are some very skilled snipers in this game. I have played with many of them but their impact on a match is truely minimal compared to the impact a similarly skilled player of any other class. Sniping simply doesn't do enough to support the team to make sense in its current implementation.
Fun > Realism
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
2695
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
The sniper role is situational. As a career in sniping in New Eden? Highly laughable
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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Espartoi
Zero-Day Attack
Zero-Day
0
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:32:00 -
[58] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
99% of snipers ARE behind the redline.
And hit detection and rendering isn't a valid excuse for wanting a buff for a class - just ask for the bugs fixed.
If you think that without the bugs sniping would be any more than point and click you're bigging yourself up far too much.
Not in any match I've played in they're not. Hit detection and rendering are the main things that snipers are calling for again and again along with variable zoom scopes, which is just realistic considering current day snipers have that availability and this is thousands of years in the future. Sniping is more than point and click even now, and not just because of the bugs. You have to decide where to set up on the battlefield for best effect in support of your team. You then have to not only keep watch of where your target zone is, you have to keep checking around yourself for people sneaking up on you because whilst you're aiming and shooting, you're forced to be stationary unlike with any other weapon choice in the game. Move and you're pretty much guaranteed to miss. The slow rate of fire means you're probably only going to get one shot at your target which means that you either have to shoot centre mass when there's someone who can take advantage of the target's shields going down, or you have to headshot to have any hope of bringing the target down. Add in that most of the maps only give you the smallest of windows onto where the majority of the action actually takes place and that you're lucky if you get more than a split second's warning that a target is going to go past a place where you can actually hit them and it becomes even harder to be effective. Then, your sniper rifle is only effective at long range so you have to spend at least some of your sp on a secondary weapon reducing your possible effectiveness with your primary weapon even further. Next, as you're busy searching for targets and being stationary, you're not getting WP for taking objectives or healing or through dropping nanohives or drop uplinks. We're not asking for ccp to make us tank killers or to let us massacre the opposing team from across the map with rapid fire, we're asking for things that make us effective in the role we've chosen to play. Hit detection so that when we are aimed at a target it hits is the biggest one. Scopes with a zoom (my suggestion would be starting at advanced rifles you get a basic zoom and prototypes you get an improved zoom of some type) so that the centre dot doesn't obscure the entire target and you can actually aim accurately, rendering so we can actually see the targets that are in range. A bonus to headshot damage isn't essential if we can get these first things but it would make sense because this is a piece of metal travelling at thousands of meters per second. If it hits your head, the force alone should be enough to snap your neck, even without penetration. Those of us who are actually good snipers know that we're a support role primarily. We just want ccp to give us the tools to do our job properly. The redline snipers will stop doing it when they find it's not profitable for them. They're all about k/d ratio. Improving snipers messes that up as one of our most important functions is counter sniping. If I can see an enemy sniper behind the redline, they're likely to be my first target and at worst they'll be forced to move, in which case I'll keep finding them, at best I'll kill them and they'll quickly get to know that hanging out behind the redline isn't risk free.
Totally agreed, sometimes snipers becomes useless against a full team of heavies or just to many enemies with more 800 than Shield/armor the idea is not killing by using like how knows how many shots its like one or at least 3 shots no more than that. It needs more customization to add zoom scopes or at least a camouflage. |
Ventis Gant
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2014.01.22 07:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
Quote:
Intelligent response.
I suggested bullet drop and target leading because I feel that sniping should be more rewarding for people who can use the weapon skilfully, and that provides a mechanic for them to do so. Although the bullets may travel at 2 km/s, from some distance out that is still a short delay before hitting the target. At a 200m range, it's going to take .1 of a second to hit the target. In that time, the bullet would have dropped enough to mess up a headshot, so in addition to target leading it would be something that good players could compensate for in order to get a high reward (hence a higher damage on the sniper).
As for hit detection, I absolutely agree. Nobody should have bad hit detection. There is no excuse for it, and balancing around bad hit detection is insane.
I'm not sure what you mean by zoom on the scopes though. Do you mean a variable zoom for really long distance sniping? Because I'm afraid I have to disagree there. The justification for being able to sit at a really long range is that you have to aim carefully to hit.
At 200m range:
rounds are fired "in excess of 2500 m/s"
change in y = initial V * .5 * a * t^2
initial V = 0, so:
change in y = .5 * a * t^2
a = gravity. I'll go with Earth gravity for calculation purposes.
change in y = .5 * 9.8 * (200m / 2500 m/s)
change in y = .5 * 9.8 * .08 s
change in y = .03136 m, or 3.136 cm, or 1.235 inches.
This is of course not accounting for air resistance increasing the time to target, but even then I doubt you are looking at more than 2 inches of drop at 200m. This is not enough to affect most headshots at this range, and .08s time to target is so short that leading the target is not needed.
Long range is a sniper's friend. I remember early in the closed beta when view distances were VERY short. I got quite used to sniping under those conditions, but my sniping spots were almost always within AR range of the enemy. A sniper that is doing his job should never enter the range of anyone's suit carried weapons except for another sniper. A sniper in range of the enemy tends to be a dead sniper. In order for this to be practical, we need a bit more zoom. I agree, however, that snipers should not be effective from beyond the redline. A sniper should be able to support his team by guarding the approaches to a point, or picking off defenders of a point. |
Teilka Darkmist
34
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Posted - 2014.01.22 07:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
VEXation Gunn wrote:snipers are nothing but the trash of dust. I am glad all the new maps are making it harder for snipers to exist. Nothing like hiding in the redline in proto suits with 3 damage mods and 800+ehp.
There is no excuse you lot are a bunch of ******. Get rid of redline to start so its easier to hunt down the ****** **** that like ***** ****** in their ****** daily.
Not all of us do that, I personally can't use any proto suits or complex damage mods (which is what you're actually referring to here) and there's no way in hell I'm going to make a fit using the 3 thales I've somehow managed to salvage. Plus, as I've said, time and again (so much I've made it my signature), I never hide in the redline. Even when I get proto suits (light, scout most likely) if I use them, I'll be out on the battlefield hunting, not hung back behind the redline where I see fewer enemies anyway, much less are able to aim and shoot in time. Do not lump me in with the relative few who do.
I have seen a response from a CCP dev in one of the many redline threads that states outright they have a fix in the works, if I weren't getting ready to go to work as I typed this, I'd spend the time to find it and link it here. Or you could just go to the search, use the advanced options to find posts by devs and search for redline. The redline is there so that the opposing team can't sweep over the battlefield them just spawncamp the MCC. It's supposed to give the opposing team a chance, however small, to make a comeback.
Snipers should be a usefull part of the entire team. Our speciality is damage from a distance, that's what snipers do. With that we can hunt other snipers, take out targets of opportunity and assist with aerial denial. If you're trying to hack an uplink, for example, having a sniper that can cover you on overwatch could be the difference between taking the objective (and you getting 100 war points, not us) and you dying to enemy fire. You likely haven't seen many snipers complaining that the rest of the classes are getting the majority of the WP's in a match whilst we're usually in the bottom third or so of the table if all we do is snipe.
Most of us also have fits where we can and do come in close when necessary. Why not quit your moaning, make a fairly basic sniper fit and go shoot at the redline snipers on the opposing team if you're that personally offended by them, if sniping is supposedly so easy (an argument I've seen again and again) and you're that personally offended by them. They won't stay in the redline long with protosuits and weapons if they realise they're actually still vulnerable there.
You don't see anywhere near as many people complaining about the medium an heavy all proto fits stomping anyone who doesn't have them in the centre of the battlefield racking up kdr's that a redline sniper could only dream of achieving. You also don't see as many anti-tankherd threads as there are 'remove the redline' and 'nerf the snipers' threads.
Tl:dr if you're so upset about redline snipers, build a sniper fit and shoot them back and quit spreading your hatred and misinformation here in the forums. We're not all redline snipers, stop flat out lying and saying we are. Snipers have a valuable and unique role on the battlefield, you'd be worse off if we weren't there.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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