Is it true that with the new patch CCP will take the self reps on my suit out of the game? Is it so people stop using logi suits for assaults?

Listen CCP I'm top 40 in warpoints (because I have no life) and I'm most likely top ten logi's in the game. I'm a true logi, I've been playing this GAME a year this is my very first post because I feel this is a big issues (issue?) for logi's.

CCP I'm 34 years old AND ex navy of 15 years.(you know, because I'm obviously of superior intelligence)I have an awesome corp and love this game. CCP listen, no one reps a logi. (cut 'no one') The only time I have reps is in PC, other then that I'm solo. True logi's are hard to find. Now you want me to use a slot to put a rep on so I can rep myself so less armor now on my suit?

The rapid fire or whatever it is u have COMING for ASSAULTS and heavy's and other things should be enough to stop people from using logi suits as ASSAULTS. But to take my reps away from my suit when no one in the game reps me ever? And if they do they suck because they not true logis like myself. (pretentious). True logi's survive because of our suit repping itself. Now what use a slot have less armor? Not cool CCP. Not cool at all.

True logi's (<--he got the ' finally!) are not a dime a dozen AND we are rare. Don't take my logi reps from my suit. I'm a bad ass (even though I'm practically illiterate) but damn I'm not that much invincible. (spend all your time playing Dust, forget how to build sentences?) Am I the only logi that feels this way?

*wipes swear from his brow* Good lord....

Lmao...this is a forum not english class. Im using my phone to type lol. Thanks for editing my post that was awesome of you...now that i gave you some attention hater maybe we can go back to topic

Lmao...this is a forum not english class. Im using my phone to type lol. Thanks for editing my post that was awesome of you...now that i gave you some attention hater maybe we can go back to topic

Yo michael i just wrote another large post can u fix it for me then go back to topic pls thanks bud...i been on a ship 15 years my phone has auto correct wow so cool...is that like spell check on a computer....hummm maybe for another thread right now we talking aboit logi suits and there internal reps...try to stay on topic i know its hard to read and understand what i write but please do yiur best to keep up if it gets to hard for you let me know ill do my best to expain. Oh shoot i wrote expain now he not going to know what im talking about...gosh darn it anywho back to topic

Bro, I can type a novel on my cell phone with all the correct punctuation. Your phone has autocorrect that will AUTOCORRECT words that are spelt incorrectly for you.

I mean seriously....I'm not hating on you. I'm not even hating on you a little bit. You were in the Navy right? If you wrote your EO RTC a letter making a point of something that you object too, and wrote it half-assed...would he/she take it seriously? I doubt it. In fact, I'd imagine someone would come by and be like what is the problem?

I feel the same way. You are on the forum dictating how "bad ass" you are and bitching and pissing and moaning about CCP messing with the logi makeup....DO YOU REALIZE HOW HARD YOUR POST WAS TO READ? I'm sitting in a nice comfy chair in a nice temperature controlled environment staring at a laptop screen and it was tough for me.

I had to crack open a fresh baileys (mm, creamy..creamy beige) and use a napkin to sop the sweat from my brow to even read it. My brain was saying no....it was like NO SIR, STOP RIGHT NOW.

Your lack of literacy is top 40 offensive to me....

Well of course being a top ten logi my view should weigh more then a bb that was stupid. So u think a newbie post should weigh more then a year ood vet in the game that IS in the top ten for logis. So you saying when cubs post and a newbie post that ccp wont look at cubs frist and weigh what he has to say more then a newbie...you a funny guy guy

If you need the self-repairs, fit a local armour rep. Simple.

The fact that 90% of english is bullshit, should be enough to classify you sir, as 95% bullshit.

As he mentioned, first time posting to the forums. And I did this exact same thing with my first post, which used every character available. Imagine reading that.

Someone kindly informed me that my text was hard to read, and suggested using paragraphs. I was like, oh yeah you are right, thanks cool guy.

You on the other hand, I have never seen, are likely a nobody, and jealous of us GOOD at dust. My tank be like wahhht, and you be like blooosh (you ragdolling in the air, once I get done playing with you).

DO YOU REALIZE HOW HARD YOUR POST WAS TO READ? I had to have 3 people, hold me down, one jabbing me with needles to keep me focused, and another kicking me everytime I mispronounced a word. Even then, there wasn't much to be retained, as 100% of it was bullshit.

And it makes sense, considering you are 95% bullshit yourself. (check earlier math, you WILL need someone explain it for you though)

Hey eve whats up bud.....exactly bro giving up armor for a rep hummm...maybe in gall logi since they have 5 low slots

lol...seriously? I'm Michael Epic dude, I'm one of the leading authorities with remote explosives in this game. I am freaking renowned for that mess. I'm hated as a slayer logi, constantly hate mailed for the traps I set.

Bring your tank dude....4 boundless remote explosives and you'll either be dead or running like a dog in heat from a pack of wild animals with a sparkle in their eye.

You don't know me? I don't know you either....jabroni lol

Oh yeah hey, get out of your tank....try to catch me, watch the corners you walk around because paired with proxy, remote explosive and thukker grenades...oh man, OH MAN....bad day for you sir, bad day.

In fact, go ask big bad "8213" about being spawn camped at the CRU and how I took him 16/16 with remote explosives to the point where he was so mad he hate mailed my entire corporation bitching and moaning.

You don't know me ahahahahahaha well you do now....next time I see you in FW or public...oh man, OH MAN haha I'll make sure you NEVER forget my name.

Tebu.......Ahhhhhhh hahahahaha....getem , getem,,,, absorbs swarms, getem. Deflects missles, getem. (How high movie) Orbital what, u still use them on tanks u bb lmao....he is proud of using remotes...dude i really wanted to ignore him amd not get off topic. But really famous for RE's ....lmao im not even going to entertain why that was a stupid statement....proud of RE's wow really....bro my tanker is Cloak Wolf Rider im the Ceo of The Unit the training corp for Gods among Men...go see where my tanker is on the weeklyboards...ill give u a hint. You wont need to scroll...please que sync a factional with us my squad against your squad...please...yes im begging like a little girl cuz i know u will never show....and to be fair i must tell you all my players are from....nah nvm why should i tell you that...doesnt matter where we from either except my challange now or be gone troll...we will even do caldari or amarr u can go on the esier side...20 mill says my squad wins...put up or shut up u decide Mr Epic ....ps i hope he says bring it

Dont get me wrong im an awesome logi i will adapt. I only die 2-3 times a battle if that as it is. Just think that as a logi a yrue logi being abke to rep myself something i skilled into should stay. Im a medic i can stab people i can heal people but i cant heal myself. After you ccp already have me used to this game play for a year now and ohh nvm lets jist take it away now cuz poeple are using them as assualts. I truly think the new suits and perks is enough to get the assualts to go assaults but with this new patch i feel ccp is going to make logis move to assaults since i cant rep myself might as well join the boys and let someone else worry about repping me and also if i have to carry triage hives just to tep myself then more of a reason i shouod switch to assualt thats what they do or is ccp just want everyone to play like nyain san all 60 men throwing down triage hives everywhere and yes i said all 60 men we all know that nyain san has a cheat for ghost squads in game how do you think you always getting shot from every angle possible...lol (yes Michael that was a joke)

Is it true with new patch ccp will take the self reps on my suit out of the game just so people stop using logi suits for assualts. Listen ccp im top 40 in warpoints im most likely top ten logi in the game im a true logi i been playing this gake a year this is my very first post because I feel this is a big issues for logis. Ccp im 34 years old ex navy of 15 years i have an awesome corp and love this game. Ccp listen , no one reps a logi no one. The only time i have reps is in pc other then that im solo. True logis are hard to find. Now you want me to use a slot to put a rep on so i can rep myself so less armor now on my suit. The rapid fire or whatever it is u have comong for assualts and heavys and other thngs should be enough to stop people from using logi suits as assuats but to take my reps away from my suit when no one in the game reps me ever. And if they do they suck because they not true logis like myself. True logis survive because of our suit repping itself now what use a slot have less armor. Not cool ccp not cool at all true logi's are not a dime a dozen we are rare. Dont take my logi reps from my suit. Im a bad ass but damn im not that much invincible. A i the only logi that feels this way

I've said this before but the new bonuses do not actually balance anything. Having an equipment specific (reptard tool, scanner etc) just says that people who picked a suit for the ability to fit all equipment need to actually use the piece of equipment to gain the bonus. It also means that this will theoretically unbalance WP payouts as the Intel Kill Assist a Gallente Suit will earn wil be lower than the bonus for Triage of a Minmatar Logi. Also it means that a Minmatar Logi will actually earn less WP due to an increased rep rate. This is not a balance pass it is a nerf pass and should be rethought.

sure we will just give up 200ehp to fit one, thats perfect balance against every combat class thats getting both an ehp buff and a dps buff

You don't give up 200 EHP to fit a single rep.
Even if you did, I would note that every other class already has to fit a rep. Presently, all logis have an extra low slot to fit a rep over their assault counterparts.

Why do you need as much HP and DPS as the other classes? That is not your role. Your role is to provide repairs, ammo, scans, uplinks, etc. Currently, any logi can out-tank their assault counterpart, easily. They can also typically out-damage them. Losing 5 HP/s as a bonus alone will not change that.

I will still use a Gallogi over a Gallassault simply because it is better in almost every conceivable way even without the bonus.

Or make us VAMPIRES, like in the "evil" mode of infamous. Refill your energy gauge by draining the nearly dead instead of needling them. That would be cool.

+1

What I've seen of the new suit related skill bonuses shows a trend more of sweeping changes than of fine tuning balance.
It's hard to say without numbers but the primary impression so far, if it holds, indicates these changes will be an outright nerf for players who truly adopt a support role. Logistics suits without the change are already slower, have lower eHP, are bright yellow, and are the least likely to receive support (due to their role) they also tend to be on balance more ISK/SP intensive to field a loadout with roughly equivalent stats (to their racial medium frame counterpart).

Assault suits needed some love, especially with regards to some of their skill bonuses (I've been saying this for quite awhile), Logistics suits did not need what amounts to a nerf - certainly not while other changes in the game have diminished the average TTK. Certainly not a nerf that will hamper player innovation and choice by binding optimal equipment use to racial type while making them even more fragile. Further the changes to the logi don't really discourage the creation of non-support fits based on the logi frame, combine a skill bonus to hives with repper hives and you've got something useful for an assault based logi suit, but that same suit is less effective for a support logi who aren't supposed to be on point and who frequently are moving with their squad rather than at their own mandate.

I would very much like to see numbers from CCP regarding the comparative risk vs reward value of medium frames with the new skills applied. Maybe there's a factor (or two) in there which I've overlooked or don't have access too, but so far the changes don't seem to result in a solid, or frankly even an improved, risk vs reward balance between medium frame loadouts and unless there is a clear improvement to the risk vs reward balance of those possible fits I can't help but think this is not an improvement or benefit to balance or game quality.

0.02 ISK
Cross

PS ~ If there are numbers which contradict my assessment please do link them. I'd be more than happy to see solid information which proves my current perception to be incomplete/in error.

Thing is, I wouldn't be too surprised if the base stats for the suits and possibly the slot layouts are also being changed so it's a little premature to say. I do think the self-rep reinforced the defensive role of the class, tbh that's not where the problem lie comparing logi to assault suits but since there is an apparent big time overhaul of the suits across the board we really don't know what logi suits are going to look like at all.

Dont get me wrong im an awesome logi i will adapt. I only die 2-3 times a battle if that as it is. Just think that as a logi a yrue logi being abke to rep myself something i skilled into should stay. Im a medic i can stab people i can heal people but i cant heal myself. After you ccp already have me used to this game play for a year now and ohh nvm lets jist take it away now cuz poeple are using them as assualts. I truly think the new suits and perks is enough to get the assualts to go assaults but with this new patch i feel ccp is going to make logis move to assaults since i cant rep myself might as well join the boys and let someone else worry about repping me and also if i have to carry triage hives just to tep myself then more of a reason i shouod switch to assualt thats what they do or is ccp just want everyone to play like nyain san all 60 men throwing down triage hives everywhere and yes i said all 60 men we all know that nyain san has a cheat for ghost squads in game how do you think you always getting shot from every angle possible...lol (yes Michael that was a joke)

sure we will just give up 200ehp to fit one, thats perfect balance against every combat class thats getting both an ehp buff and a dps buff

No doubt there is going to be a need for a balancing pass not long after 1.8, but I'm thinking more along the lines that they are evening out the slot counts in each class of suit and adjusting things to be more in line with eve (e.g., Amarr now getting more armor than Gallente) racial philosophies. I guess one way to think about it is that the placeholders are now gone, so to not have a big overhaul is virtually impossible.

One of the dark realities of design is that most ideas are usually pretty bad. When people have been brainstorming for a while... pretty much any idea can begin to sound really good, until someone else enters the room and says "That's just freaking terrible.... Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad. - But if you changed them like X, they could be good!" That person entering the room is going to be you as a CPM bro. And the sad truth is.... The people in the room are probably not going to listen to you nearly as often as you think, despite how obvious the flaws in their ideas may seem.

Welcome to the assault suits in 1.5/1.6.

Take your extra slots and stop whining. DPS buff? Please link. Even if it does get buffed, TTK will still be increased so not really a good argument on your end.

TTK is going to increase https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714234#post1714234

Well put, cross. No debate there, 1.8 should have been 1.0, but since they broke the core mechanics of the game, here we are, what, 6-8 months later?

Ultimately that's the problem, these are growing pains we should have gone through a long time ago but didn't. At this point we really have no choice but to go through them and come out the other side with the best game we can.

Also, we don't know that they are taking slots away from the logi suits, it's all speculation right now. They may be adding slots to the assaults, or they may keep the slots the same but decrease the CPU/PG of the suits commensurate to the new bonus such that you can still make a proper support logi fitting but not a killer bee. That's one solution myself and others had suggested as an alternative to the terribad sidearm only nonsense that was floating around a month or so ago.

IMO, that's the ideal solution to this whole logi-assault "war". The self-reps could have stayed, and If you make a big time reduction to equipment fit costs and drop the fitting power of the suits just the right amount (I know, CCP), the ability to make a "real" logistics fitting remains unchanged - I could make the same or better fitting I do now as a support-minded player, but if I were to put all my slots into offense, it wouldn't be as good as it can be now.

EDIT: you snuck another one in there before I could reply.

Welcome to the assault suits in 1.5/1.6.

Take your extra slots and stop whining. DPS buff? Please link. Even if it does get buffed, TTK will still be increased so not really a good argument on your end.

TTK is going to increase https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714234#post1714234

Well put, cross. No debate there, 1.8 should have been 1.0, but since they broke the core mechanics of the game, here we are, what, 6-8 months later?

Ultimately that's the problem, these are growing pains we should have gone through a long time ago but didn't. At this point we really have no choice but to go through them and come out the other side with the best game we can.

Also, we don't know that they are taking slots away from the logi suits, it's all speculation right now. They may be adding slots to the assaults, or they may keep the slots the same but decrease the CPU/PG of the suits commensurate to the new bonus such that you can still make a proper support logi fitting but not a killer bee. That's one solution myself and others had suggested as an alternative to the terribad sidearm only nonsense that was floating around a month or so ago.

IMO, that's the ideal solution to this whole logi-assault "war". The self-reps could have stayed, and If you make a big time reduction to equipment fit costs and drop the fitting power of the suits just the right amount (I know, CCP), the ability to make a "real" logistics fitting remains unchanged - I could make the same or better fitting I do now as a support-minded player, but if I were to put all my slots into offense, it wouldn't be as good as it can be now.

EDIT: you snuck another one in there before I could reply.

Defo, iv been logi for just over a year now. I'm not bothered, I'll slap on a reactive plate. Meh

That's entirely fair and I won't dispute it at all.
That being said I'd still favor a granulated implementation for the sake of proper vetting over a ground up overhaul that will put increased strain on the NPE, the meta game, and frankly the QA teams, before the dust settles and we've started to ferret out all the new bugs and exploits that are virtually inevitable with so much changed all at once. At the minimum holding of on changing things that directly impact eHP until TTK has been fine tuned to meet the threshold CCP wants it at.


While I agree the assaults need some love I've spent months on these forums asking for fittings examples that, sans racial skill buffs, put a "killer bee" above it's racial assault, and I've yet to see one. With the skill bonus included the old CalLogi surly met that mark but no where in that is the whole role let alone suit layout indited by the facts. In current game state the substantive difference between the suits in the medium line is that the logistics have lower base stats in exchange for more fittings flex. This can be used to good effect no question but it also requires a higher SP investment and a higher ISK cost to field as you're fitting more mods per load out than on the assault. It also means that various general skill buff effects provide less for the logistics frame than they give to the assault because the base values of the assault are higher (fittings skills are the notable exception to this trend).

Bluntly put, I've only seen information to support the idea that the assault suits need better racial skill buffs (and maybe a better role bonus so it's not lopsided towards some races). I have yet to see any solid or compelling evidence which supports the contention that any further changes to the medium suit line are called for. I've seen volumes of hyperbole but no meaningful evidence and yet we're still looking at some massive changes and I'm still not hearing any clear and direct statements from CCP regarding why, that combination of massive change and general silence is something I find much less than ideal.


Something like you propose above would be a good sight better as a way to solve the contention. I'm still of a mind that the changes should be almost exclusively to the assault side of the medium line with the only real change to the logistics frames being a minimum two equipment slots filled before the load out is considered valid for deployment. Those two aspects together should do the trick, and if not the values could be fiddled with lightly to find the right balance.
I am honestly still baffled (not directed at you btw) at how often this subject is addressed in a way that completely glosses over the cost aspect of the cost v benefit dynamic, it is rather rare that posters proclaiming this "problem" to be in dire need of redress actually provide comparative SP and ISK investment costs to support their stance. And really if "you pay more ISK to get more effect" isn't the intended foundation of gear balance in Dust then what is? Without the cost aspect clearly included the argument might as well be "proto gear is better than my militia gear, that's not balanced, nerf it" which, while I've seen those posts too, would only serve to flatten the game play and reduce the sandbox excessively.

Cheers,
Cross

PS ~ I'd just like to take a moment here to thank you for keeping the discussion constructive and hostility free, it's appreciated mate

You're welcome. Just like I only snipe red snipers, I only troll other trolls (usually).

Seriously though, the cost of logi stuff is no joke, but there are two problems with using that argument here. One, killer bees aren't using much equipment by definition. Second, the economy is so broken with all the ISK farmers in PC right now that Nyain San can afford to run their maxed out logi gk.0s and lose 10 madrugars a game forever. (I've personally killed 4 of their tanks in one match, with my team killing a total of 11, they didn't bat an eye, just kept spamming us into the Stone Age).

As for the actual fittings, the only real problem arose once brick tanking became the best fit. Just like with all those losers who started running heavy suits with their duvolles, you can tank a Gallente logi pretty hard, stack damage mods in the highs and put in a scanner and compact hive and voila, the Nyain San Standard Protostomping Suit.

I logi most of the time, this is not much of am issue for me, it's usually live or die when I lose my armor, repping isn't that important, if I find it becomes an issue I don't think losing an armor slot or carrying triage hives is a huge sacrifice if in exchange I get to carry better equipment.

I'd like to pop my head back in and say, someone seriously thought I was trolling in my earlier posts? That's the problem with criticisms everyone takes it so personally. I was a logi, am a logi and will be a logi in 1.8. I have had to adjust my play several times since I picked up the game 18 months ago, but that's all it is is an adjustment. I take these changes with a grain of salt and will continue to do what I do. More people should be less ruffled by these things.

*wipes swear from his brow* Good lord....

Those are accurate observations, however they're not direct inditements of the logistics suit or support load outs which means that the problems aren't centered there and thus best solutions won't be either. "Killer bees" aren't shouldering the same burden in fittings, SP, or ISK that a support player is so if the "fix" to mechanics is such that the logistics frames/load outs are nerfed to the point where bees aren't considered a problem anymore then it's guaranteed the actual support players have just been gimped. Hence why I'm so amendment other methods need to be employed, such as giving the assault suits solid enough skill buffs et al to make them a more attractive choice and requiring 1-2 pieces of equipment be part of each logi fit. These may not solve everything but they're smaller more precise steps which improve on the situation and can be fine tuned to address the situation as things develop, rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater as it were.

As to the ISK faucet, well that's clearly a problem with PC and needs to be addressed but we can't simply dismiss the comparative value of ISK throughout the game because of it or we've just eliminated a key aspect of the risk v reward aspect of dust. It would be the same if someone were able to exploit for limitless SP, that exploit would need fixed, not the SP system ignored/scrapped, see what I'm saying? I don't think there's much of a case to be made for the current iteration of PC being balanced and in a good place, but that's PC balance not medium frame balance.


/nods
I can see your point here, however the proposed changes effect the GalLogi suit, and that fit specifically, least out of the field.
Barring changes to the actual suit layout (since my comments have been focused on the skill changes) the net effect on that type of fit will be; a bit less buffer, the same reps, the same dps, and better scans/more WP from scans.
Unlike the rest of the logi frames who are effectively trading 5/HPs for -25% fittings cost on equipment, the GalLogi is trading that 5/HPs for better scans because it already has the discount at present.

Snip

So as it stands the changes on balance put more of a burden on support players than "killer bees" and do so in a way that only minimally addresses the specific example(s), while also not addressing the issues present in damage mods, PC ISK flow, or providing the Assault suit a solid value (just nerfing the logi suit until it's weaker than the assault doesn't mean the assault is now valuable, it simply means the whole medium frame line is now weaker compared to both light and heavy).

Simply put the problem doesn't seem very specifically assessed and what assessment there is doesn't point to the proposed changes being an effective meaningful fix for the issues raised, the changes will however make playing support harder, and more costly for all new players and non-ISK farmers. All in all that seems to me to be a pretty bad call, unless there's new information which I'm still missing.

Cheers,
Cross

I did mention damage mods but I probably should not have because I don't think they are actually a problem, they are more of a convenient bogeyman that people can point at without actually having to give any real thought to the issue like we are here.

I don't want to downplay the 25% reduction to equipment, because as an Amarr logi I have to make compromises I don't necessarily want to. Yes, I have my gun out way more than my rep tool, but I'm Amarr, that's what I do, even as a logi. (My KDR still sux, don't worry about that, lol). But, I'm forced to use a minmatar weapon (the CR) to save fitting costs. I'm hopeful I won't have to do that anymore.

Ultimately I guess what I'm saying is that I'm reserving judgement until we actually see the patch notes or at least more details on slot layouts. Overall I like the direction things are going so I'm gonna wait for more information and give feedback when it's available.

You now get an advantage to equipment PG/CPU, meaning it will be easier to fit that repping hive or an actual repping mod. You may not need that CPU mod to fit all those gadgets/mods.

You also get an advantage to a specific equipment, it doesn't mean any equipment will be any less effective that it is now.

You're going to have to rethink your role as a logi, it's no longer the best suit in the game. If you would rather run the most survivable suit with equipment you can run a commando. Or if you want more flexibility you can run a scout. Or if you'd rather focus on killing and lightly dabble in repping, reviving, or resupplying just go Assault.

The logistics suit will still be the best suit for helping your team/squad. It never should have been the most versatile and best suit in the game. That was a failure by CCP, we've got to make things right.

You don't need personal reps.

Your job is to rep other players.

ITT, walls of text

*wipes swear from his brow* Good lord....

You don't need personal reps.

Your job is to rep other players.

Bro, I can type a novel on my cell phone with all the correct punctuation. Your phone has autocorrect that will AUTOCORRECT words that are spelt incorrectly for you.

I mean seriously....I'm not hating on you. I'm not even hating on you a little bit. You were in the Navy right? If you wrote your EO RTC a letter making a point of something that you object too, and wrote it half-assed...would he/she take it seriously? I doubt it. In fact, I'd imagine someone would come by and be like what is the problem?

I feel the same way. You are on the forum dictating how "bad ass" you are and bitching and pissing and moaning about CCP messing with the logi makeup....DO YOU REALIZE HOW HARD YOUR POST WAS TO READ? I'm sitting in a nice comfy chair in a nice temperature controlled environment staring at a laptop screen and it was tough for me.

I had to crack open a fresh baileys (mm, creamy..creamy beige) and use a napkin to sop the sweat from my brow to even read it. My brain was saying no....it was like NO SIR, STOP RIGHT NOW.

Your lack of literacy is top 40 offensive to me....

Having a tanky bonus on a Healer class doesnt make sense.

Buffing the base health of the suit for survivability does..

Same With Assaults and their shield tanky bonuses, DPS class has to be DPS bonus based.

This is proven balance in classes the "Tri-Star" known for in the RPG genre's.


The more we get away from that the harder it will be to balance it.

*wipes swear from his brow* Good lord....

Rep Tools should have a 'Feedback Loop' while healing another player should also passively, and at a diminished rate rep the Logi. There, you want reps, go heal someone else. CCP should hire me.

Having a tanky bonus on a Healer class doesnt make sense.

Buffing the base health of the suit for survivability does..

Same With Assaults and their shield tanky bonuses, DPS class has to be DPS bonus based.

This is proven balance in classes the "Tri-Star" known for in the RPG genre's.


The more we get away from that the harder it will be to balance it.

Falling back on "holey trinity" style balance ill suits New Eden. This game is not EQ, WoW, et al it is a sandbox rather than a semi-liner 'errand based' quest game. Roles are not equal to classes nor are they supposed to be so limiting and hardline, they are tools in the players kit to be used, the meta game and player flexibility/innovation matter in the sandbox, in standard MMORPGs there is little to no meta/player innovation in the New Eden sense as things are prescribed in nature and progression from character creation on. Those games can be amusing in their own right but they are not what New Eden is about nor should the sandbox be exchanged for them. Proven balance for the rules and play of tennis doesn't apply in a meaningful way to a game of lacrosse, it's apples to oranges just like the example above is when applied to the sandbox of New Eden.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Tebu.......Ahhhhhhh hahahahaha....getem , getem,,,, absorbs swarms, getem. Deflects missles, getem. (How high movie) Orbital what, u still use them on tanks u bb lmao....he is proud of using remotes...dude i really wanted to ignore him amd not get off topic. But really famous for RE's ....lmao im not even going to entertain why that was a stupid statement....proud of RE's wow really....bro my tanker is Cloak Wolf Rider im the Ceo of The Unit the training corp for Gods among Men...go see where my tanker is on the weeklyboards...ill give u a hint. You wont need to scroll...please que sync a factional with us my squad against your squad...please...yes im begging like a little girl cuz i know u will never show....and to be fair i must tell you all my players are from....nah nvm why should i tell you that...doesnt matter where we from either except my challange now or be gone troll...we will even do caldari or amarr u can go on the esier side...20 mill says my squad wins...put up or shut up u decide Mr Epic ....ps i hope he says bring it

*wipes swear from his brow* Good lord....