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Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4430
   |
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I mean, it really just makes sense.
Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level
Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level
So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage.
Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons.
Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level
So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons.
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +5% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment.
Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons.
This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A."
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1589
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would love this to hell.
My min assault would be able to fit my Proto ACR and Flaylock, and be good with both of them!
I LIKE IT.
IT MAKES SENSE.
CCP WILL NEVER DO IT.
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
|
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4430
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:I would love this to hell.
My min assault would be able to fit my Proto ACR and Flaylock, and be good with both of them!
I LIKE IT.
IT MAKES SENSE.
CCP WILL NEVER DO IT.
That's what I'm afraid of. It makes too much sense for CCP.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Omareth Nasadra
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
237
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:I mean, it really just makes sense.
Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level
Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level
So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage.
Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons.
Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level
So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons.
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +5% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment.
Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons.
This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A."
not a bad idea, altough i'd trade that explosive radius for min anytime for my good ol' smg clip size, and i'm a MD user since chrome btw, i am a 100% with ya the overheat bonus for laser weaponry removal on amarr assault is bs
Minmatar, In rust we trust!!!
Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes
|
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4430
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Omareth Nasadra wrote:
not a bad idea, altough i'd trade that explosive radius for min anytime for my good ol' smg clip size, and i'm a MD user since chrome btw, i am a 100% with ya the overheat bonus for laser weaponry removal on amarr assault is bs
That's why for the Minmatar Assault bonus I included explosive radius AND projectile clip size, because all Minmatar weaponry is either an explosive (flaylock, mass driver) or a projectile (SMG, combat rifle) so you have to provide a bonus for both.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1590
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Omareth Nasadra wrote:
not a bad idea, altough i'd trade that explosive radius for min anytime for my good ol' smg clip size, and i'm a MD user since chrome btw, i am a 100% with ya the overheat bonus for laser weaponry removal on amarr assault is bs
That's why for the Minmatar Assault bonus I included explosive radius AND projectile clip size, because all Minmatar weaponry is either an explosive (flaylock, mass driver) or a projectile (SMG, combat rifle) so you have to provide a bonus for both.
Yup. My flaylock would be very happy. Still needs a damage buff though. You have to get proficiency for it to be decent. Got Pro 3 for it a while ago, and my core shreds though armor now. I can two shot almost any suit with it's shields down.
The bonus to clip size would be godsend to the CR. ACR would get an 85 round clip. Flaylock would get it's glorious 2.0m splash back. Combine with flux grenades, and you have a kit that will decimate any group you want to flank.
I really hope this happens, in conjunction with a full respec. I'll fully spec out the CR and Flaylock. No regrets.
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
|
Jebus McKing
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
223
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
yup, this makes more sense than most things I've read here in the last couple of months.
+1
@JebusMcKing // Rifle stats comparison spreadsheet.
ò_Ô
|
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4431
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:
I really hope this happens, in conjunction with a full respec. I'll fully spec out the CR and Flaylock. No regrets.
What do you think about the Caldari and Gallente bonuses? I mean, clearly the Amarr players will love to keep their heat reduction and Minmatar players would love more explosive radius and clip size, but I'm not too sure what to say for the other two.
Caldari I gave a reduction to the charge up time of the rail rifle (and Magsec SMG will probably have a charge up time so that too), but then I didn't want to ignore their sniper rifle or anything so figured why not give all rail weapons a little more zoom, since they are the long range weapons? And for Gallente, I figure since they're all about being up close and in your face being able to fire your gun faster would really help them. Your thoughts?
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1591
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:
I really hope this happens, in conjunction with a full respec. I'll fully spec out the CR and Flaylock. No regrets.
What do you think about the Caldari and Gallente bonuses? I mean, clearly the Amarr players will love to keep their heat reduction and Minmatar players would love more explosive radius and clip size, but I'm not too sure what to say for the other two. Caldari I gave a reduction to the charge up time of the rail rifle (and Magsec SMG will probably have a charge up time so that too), but then I didn't want to ignore their sniper rifle or anything so figured why not give all rail weapons a little more zoom, since they are the long range weapons? And for Gallente, I figure since they're all about being up close and in your face being able to fire your gun faster would really help them. Your thoughts?
Hm. I'll try to be as unbiased as possible.
Caldari:
Charge Time: Reduction to Charge time can only be a good thing. The charge up time limits the total DPS of the weapon, and by reducing it, you can more effectively engage targets in a shorter timespan. However, percentage based bonuses lose their appeal with low numbers. At proto, this bonus will reduce charge up time on a Rail Rifle by a whopping *drumroll* 0.0625 seconds. That's 6/100th's of a second. If they increase the spool up time to 0.5 (which has been rumored on the forums to reduce CQC viability) than this would be very helpful.
This might be of more use to the Charge sniper, but I'm not sure how long the charge time is. Could be helpful.
Zoom: Would really help emphasize the long range aspects of the weapon. Rail Rifles would really start to shine as long range weapons. Snipers would love this to DEATH. So long as they fix the stupid draw distance.
Solid ideas, but could use some tweaking. I'm a minny, so we need a Caldari in here to judge these truly.
Gallente:
ROF: Yes yes and yes. DPS is good. More DPS is great. This will really help emphasize the power of plasma weapons in CQC. That Plasma rifle would become a CQC powerhouse, which would make up for it's shortcomings in range. Right now, it shoots at 750 RPM. This bonus would push it to almost 938 RPM. The Balac's would be even nastier. DPS would essentially get a 25% buff. So long as the gun is useless past 40m I am perfectly fine with this. In eve, blasters RUIN YOUR DAY if they get close. Should be the same here.
Once again though, I'm diehard Matari. We need a Gallente Specialist in here.
Hope this helps Aero 
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
|
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4434
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Once again though, I'm diehard Matari. We need a Gallente Specialist in here. Hope this helps Aero
And I'm a diehard Amarrian so yeah, need Gallente and Caldari specialists to chime in.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1591
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Also, in light of what you wrote in KingBabar's post about how the bonuses are kept similar across the classes.
How do you think the heavies and scouts should get their bonuses?
Give scouts a naturally low profile? And instead, give them a bonus to cloak modules and eWar modules?
Heavies get fitting reductions to Heavy weapons? This would let them use their other slots to tank eHP and Damage if need be right?
Just curious.
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
|
Omareth Nasadra
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
238
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Omareth Nasadra wrote:
not a bad idea, altough i'd trade that explosive radius for min anytime for my good ol' smg clip size, and i'm a MD user since chrome btw, i am a 100% with ya the overheat bonus for laser weaponry removal on amarr assault is bs
That's why for the Minmatar Assault bonus I included explosive radius AND projectile clip size, because all Minmatar weaponry is either an explosive (flaylock, mass driver) or a projectile (SMG, combat rifle) so you have to provide a bonus for both.
if i can play with my toys, you can play with yours, we got an agreement 
Minmatar, In rust we trust!!!
Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes
|
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4434
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Also, in light of what you wrote in KingBabar's post about how the bonuses are kept similar across the classes.
How do you think the heavies and scouts should get their bonuses?
Give scouts a naturally low profile? And instead, give them a bonus to cloak modules and eWar modules?
Heavies get fitting reductions to Heavy weapons? This would let them use their other slots to tank eHP and Damage if need be right?
Just curious.
Hmm, are you suggesting for all the class and racial bonuses to mirror each other? I'm not too sure, especially because there's not too much symmetry between all classes as you start throwing scouts, sentinels, commandos, and eventually pilots into the mix. The main reason I am suggesting the Assault mirror the Logistics is because they are both medium frames and have a lot of symmetry between roles on the battlefield.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1591
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Also, in light of what you wrote in KingBabar's post about how the bonuses are kept similar across the classes.
How do you think the heavies and scouts should get their bonuses?
Give scouts a naturally low profile? And instead, give them a bonus to cloak modules and eWar modules?
Heavies get fitting reductions to Heavy weapons? This would let them use their other slots to tank eHP and Damage if need be right?
Just curious. Hmm, are you suggesting for all the class and racial bonuses to mirror each other? I'm not too sure, especially because there's not too much symmetry between all classes as you start throwing scouts, sentinels, commandos, and eventually pilots into the mix. The main reason I am suggesting the Assault mirror the Logistics is because they are both medium frames and have a lot of symmetry between roles on the battlefield.
Okay then.
I was just wondering how far you wanted to take the class mirroring. I agree with you by the way. It would be possible for all specializations to have similar bonuses to their suits, but it wouldn't be the best answer.
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
|
Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1591
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Omareth Nasadra wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Omareth Nasadra wrote:
not a bad idea, altough i'd trade that explosive radius for min anytime for my good ol' smg clip size, and i'm a MD user since chrome btw, i am a 100% with ya the overheat bonus for laser weaponry removal on amarr assault is bs
That's why for the Minmatar Assault bonus I included explosive radius AND projectile clip size, because all Minmatar weaponry is either an explosive (flaylock, mass driver) or a projectile (SMG, combat rifle) so you have to provide a bonus for both. if i can play with my toys, you can play with yours, we got an agreement
We are all happy!
Winmatar party in the FW warbarge.
Or probably in the FW MCC as well. We could probably have half the team in there messing around and still win in FW.
Poor Amarr, I almost feel bad.
Almost.
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
9071
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
It makes so much sense that it'll never happen...
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Omareth Nasadra
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
239
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Omareth Nasadra wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Omareth Nasadra wrote:
not a bad idea, altough i'd trade that explosive radius for min anytime for my good ol' smg clip size, and i'm a MD user since chrome btw, i am a 100% with ya the overheat bonus for laser weaponry removal on amarr assault is bs
That's why for the Minmatar Assault bonus I included explosive radius AND projectile clip size, because all Minmatar weaponry is either an explosive (flaylock, mass driver) or a projectile (SMG, combat rifle) so you have to provide a bonus for both. if i can play with my toys, you can play with yours, we got an agreement We are all happy! Winmatar party in the FW warbarge. Or probably in the FW MCC as well. We could probably have half the team in there messing around and still win in FW. Poor Amarr, I almost feel bad. Almost.
i wish i could play a whole qsync squad of real PIE like aero, true adamance, aisha and the likes, that would be a real competitive fw match, not cubs and is lagbomb qsync buddies, maybe it's just a tz issue, i never seems to face them, maybe something we could plan
Minmatar, In rust we trust!!!
Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes
|
Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
69
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
What's up with the indirect Caldari nerf?
It's bad enough we lose shield recharge rate with the proposed change but we at least get dps back for it.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level
vs
Gallente Assault bonus: +5% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
Everyone gets a dps in some form but Caldari gets...zoom? wth, wouldn't trade my shield tank for what it's worth in for that. |
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4438
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 08:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Omareth Nasadra wrote:i wish i could play a whole squad a real PIE like aero, true adamance, aisha and the likes, that would be a real competitive fw match, not cubs and is lagbomb qsync buddies, maybe it's just a tz issue, i never seems to face them, maybe something we could plan
Well actually not all of those people you listed are still in PIE, though I will be returning there very soon. As for Cubs, I'm honestly not the biggest fan and agree with you. He hangs around in our channel to use the orbital support we provide, which is fine, and he always wins for our faction, which is nice, but he's not really in it for the Amarr nor does he really understand and support the embodiment of Amarr like me or True Adamance does.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4438
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 09:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:What's up with the indirect Caldari nerf?
It's bad enough we lose shield recharge rate with the proposed change but we at least get dps back for it.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level
vs
Gallente Assault bonus: +5% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
Everyone gets a dps in some form but Caldari gets...zoom? wth, wouldn't trade my shield tank for what it's worth in for that.
Thank you for the feedback. I'm not a primary Caldari user so I'm not quite sure what the best bonuses would be, but you raise a good point. Do you have any suggestions for a better Caldari bonus? Keeping with the theme of improving the efficiency of Caldari weaponry?
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
506
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 09:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
The proposed bonuses seem better... Except the Caldari.
Charge time on the Rail Rifle is negligible. Zoom is already fine, as I can constantly kill at ranges that exceed 90m.
Honestly, I'd prefer the bonus to shields. The tentative 'crystal ball' shield bonus would make a purely shield tanked Caldari Assault viable/competative again (possibly). |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
505
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 09:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
It's very similar to the commando bonus but it is well thought out.
Thinking you could do this with heavies as well. PG/CPU bonus to heavy weapons OR tanking mods. Have to add more heavy weapons to flesh out the weapon bonuses but you could do it. Or just keep the resistances, those are cool too.
Scouts are harder because dampening is so important to them, you can't take that away. Plus cloaks are an issue. But if you changed Db ratings enough and dealt with cloaking you could make it PG/CPU bonus to biotics. Maybe 1 gets range or module effectiveness on range amps, 1 gets bonus to kin cats or module effectiveness, 1 gets hacking bonus, not sure on the other. |
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4440
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 09:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:The proposed bonuses seem better... Except the Caldari.
Charge time on the Rail Rifle is negligible. Zoom is already fine, as I can constantly kill at ranges that exceed 90m.
Honestly, I'd prefer the bonus to shields. The tentative 'crystal ball' shield bonus would make a purely shield tanked Caldari Assault viable/competative again (possibly).
But to match all the Assault bonuses, it'd have to be some sort of bonus to Caldari weaponry. Do you have any idea? Perhaps extra range? Again, I'm not a primary Caldari user so I'm not too sure what the best bonus would be. To all Caldari users, what bonus would you want to make Caldari weapons better besides a straight up increased damage?
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Jebus McKing
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
225
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 09:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:The proposed bonuses seem better... Except the Caldari.
Charge time on the Rail Rifle is negligible. Zoom is already fine, as I can constantly kill at ranges that exceed 90m.
Honestly, I'd prefer the bonus to shields. The tentative 'crystal ball' shield bonus would make a purely shield tanked Caldari Assault viable/competative again (possibly). But to match all the Assault bonuses, it'd have to be some sort of bonus to Caldari weaponry. Do you have any idea? Perhaps extra range? Again, I'm not a primary Caldari user so I'm not too sure what the best bonus would be. To all Caldari users, what bonus would you want to make Caldari weapons better besides a straight up increased damage?
Not a Caldari but maybe a kick-reduction would work?
Kick-reduction for Rail Rifle, zoom for Snipers.
@JebusMcKing // Rifle stats comparison spreadsheet.
ò_Ô
|
Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
506
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 09:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Out of any potential buff to caldari weaponry, I'd much prefer a bonus to clip size. Perhaps some recoil reduction could also work.
My caldari alt usually fails to kill either because I can't put enough 'lead' down range, or because recoil causes too many of my shots to miss. Of course, these two issues do have some overlap. |
HYENAKILLER X
AGGRESSIVE TYPE
469
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 10:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Federation duvolle is half of what the regular duvolle in the store is in pg/cpu usage. They are intwining and validating game modes with fit reduction.
Its good to be Gallente.
You are welcome for my leadership
*Proven Aggressive Type
|
pagl1u M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
183
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 10:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
+25% rof for Gallente, are You high or something? Why not give them a 100 % dmg bonus on all weapon and 100% dmg reduction? |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1820
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 12:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Yeah, the current bonuses are way too focused on surviability for assault suits.
They honestly sound more like heavy bonuses, but resistances are much better than extra health.
Links:
List of Most Important Threads
I make logistics videos!
|
Lea Silencio
0uter.Heaven
1018
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 12:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:I mean, it really just makes sense.
Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level
Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level
So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage.
Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons.
Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level
So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons.
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +5% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment.
Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons.
This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A."
Most completely logical and simplistic recommendation thus far. I will say I am NOT happy with our Amarr assault bonus possibly being removed. I will give it a try should it actually happen but this might force my hand to put the game down for good. It is a completely unnecessary, unwarranted and unwanted change.
PurificationGäó
It's what I do.
Amarr Victor
|
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
339
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 12:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:I mean, it really just makes sense.
Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level
Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level
So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage.
Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons.
Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level
So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons.
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +5% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment.
Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons.
This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A."
VOTE Aero Yassavi for CCP CEO!!!
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Lea Silencio
0uter.Heaven
1018
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 13:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
^ This tbh.
PurificationGäó
It's what I do.
Amarr Victor
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5411
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 13:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why are we limited to two skills per suit for fucks sake?
Pretty much all of the ships in EVE have multiple skills, and they're BIG one's, like 100% damage increase on blasters.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
4468
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
pagl1u M wrote:+25% rof for Gallente, are You high or something? Why not give them a 100 % dmg bonus on all weapon and 100% dmg reduction?
The bonuses and numbers are only example to get my point across: The class bonus should be weapons fitting reduction and the racial bonuses should be improvements to your races weapons. The Gallente ROF bonus could easily be replaced with a number of things and still fit the mold of what would be better assault bonuses. Do you have any suggestions?
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Zekain K
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
993
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
The extra zoom is useless for the rail rifle, that bonus would probably only affect snipers.
CALDARI not so MASTER RACE
Forum Warrior Level: 10
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7919
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
They really really really should have. I'm not a fan of your proposed Caldari assault bonus, seems kind of useless.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
741
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
fitting bonus to easily abuses fitting a brick tanked out assault with proto weapons.
Better to leave the balance with brick tank = adv/basic weapons. easier to control
And just give us a blanket DPS bonus... after all Assault's are DPS based not tanky, jack of all trades or weapons(Thats a comando)based. |
Zekain K
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
993
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:The proposed bonuses seem better... Except the Caldari.
Charge time on the Rail Rifle is negligible. Zoom is already fine, as I can constantly kill at ranges that exceed 90m.
Honestly, I'd prefer the bonus to shields. The tentative 'crystal ball' shield bonus would make a purely shield tanked Caldari Assault viable/competative again (possibly). But to match all the Assault bonuses, it'd have to be some sort of bonus to Caldari weaponry. Do you have any idea? Perhaps extra range? Again, I'm not a primary Caldari user so I'm not too sure what the best bonus would be. To all Caldari users, what bonus would you want to make Caldari weapons better besides a straight up increased damage? Not a Caldari but maybe a kick-reduction would work? Kick-reduction for Rail Rifle, zoom for Snipers.
Nope, still useless. The kick for the isn't great enough to war rent a bonus.
CALDARI not so MASTER RACE
Forum Warrior Level: 10
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Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
4475
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:The extra zoom is useless for the rail rifle, that bonus would probably only affect snipers.
Well that's why I was thinking also remove a good portion of the RR charge up time, but again these were only ideas and really anything that will increase rail weaponry efficiency besides straight up extra bullet damage would work and be better fitted than the currently planned bonus. Do you have any suggestions?
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7919
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
They could nerf the base effective range of rail weapons, but make the Caldari assault bonus increase the effective range of rail weapons.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
|
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1453
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Why are we limited to two skills per suit for fucks sake?
Pretty much all of the ships in EVE have multiple skills, and they're BIG one's, like 100% damage increase on blasters.
I'm thinking the same way - really like Aero's take on things, maybe with modifications to Caldar Assault bonuses.
But what i'd really like to see is three or four synergistic bonuses per suit, but smaller bonuses, so that by the time a merc had made it to level 5 the combined effects resulted in a significant role/race based advantage on the battlefield, but not neccesarily a flat-out dps advantage.
I support SP rollover.
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Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
4480
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 18:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:They could nerf the base effective range of rail weapons, but make the Caldari assault bonus increase the effective range of rail weapons.
My original suggestion was going to be +2% effective range of rail weaponry per level, but I had a feeling that wouldn't go over well with the community. If you nerf the range, and then let the assault gain it back, maybe it'd work.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1320
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 18:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
I understand what you're getting at but I don't exactly agree on all fronts. The proposed 10% increase to rate of fire boosts the DPS by the same amount. Because the difference between weapon tiers is generally 5% DPS, the assault skill takes a STD weapon and pushes it to PRO damage output levels. Now obviously I know there are some additional benefits to Proto such as longer effective range, but there is also the higher cost involved. In addition, I dont have the game with me right now so I cant check, but Im fairly certain the difference in PG/CPU of Proto weapon is more than 25% more than Standard. With that said, you're actually better off with a skill giving the flat dps bonus and using a lower weapon, than using a proto weapon with PG/CPU reduction.
As for secondary support skills, they really should work to counter the weaknesses of that weapon class...unfortunately weaknesses are not very high, so skills would have little effect. Regardless, I outline many of these in my ADS Report Chapter 2.
Caldari - Reduction to Recoil (Kick) per level
Gallente - Reduction to Dispursion
Amarr - Increased Cooldown Rate or Decreased Heat Buildup
Minmatar - Increase Magazine Size
We are kinda on the same page with Minmatar/Amarr
ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
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Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
4484
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 18:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I understand what you're getting at but I don't exactly agree on all fronts. The proposed 10% increase to rate of fire boosts the DPS by the same amount. Because the difference between weapon tiers is generally 5% DPS, the assault skill takes a STD weapon and pushes it to PRO damage output levels. Now obviously I know there are some additional benefits to Proto such as longer effective range, but there is also the higher cost involved. In addition, I dont have the game with me right now so I cant check, but Im fairly certain the difference in PG/CPU of Proto weapon is more than 25% more than Standard. With that said, you're actually better off with a skill giving the flat dps bonus and using a lower weapon, than using a proto weapon with PG/CPU reduction.
As for secondary support skills, they really should work to counter the weaknesses of that weapon class...unfortunately weaknesses are not very high, so skills would have little effect. Regardless, I outline many of these in my ADS Report Chapter 2.
Caldari - Reduction to Recoil (Kick) per level
Gallente - Reduction to Dispursion
Amarr - Increased Cooldown Rate or Decreased Heat Buildup
Minmatar - Increase Magazine Size
We are kinda on the same page with Minmatar/Amarr
But the ROF bonus doesn't effect all weapons typically used by assault players. Examples include the Scrambler Rifle, Tactical Assault Rifle, and Laser Rifle.
By giving the assault class a CPU/PG reduction, it guarantees that it will affect all weaponry to roughly the same degree and allows Assaults to carry top end weapons while still being able to fit good modules for better survivability or more damage from damage mods.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
|
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
797
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 18:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Why are we limited to two skills per suit for fucks sake?
Pretty much all of the ships in EVE have multiple skills, and they're BIG one's, like 100% damage increase on blasters.
Nope, EVE ships have only have (or in the case of T2 and Faction, two) skills that uniquely affect any specific ship - the rest is much like Dust with skills that improve all ships, specific module classes or specific weapon classes.
However it now occurs to me that you probably meant more bonuses per skill, in which case Malcanis's Law applies - if skilling a suit up to proto gave you even more of an advantage, it would totally screw over the lower SP guys |
zibathy numbertwo
Nox Aeterna Security
331
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 18:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +5% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
B-but what about the plasma cannon that only has one shot per clip? :(
Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
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Zimander
Tickle My Null-Sac
24
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 18:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:CLARIFICATION: The exact bonuses listed are only to give you the general idea for what I'm talking about, which is making the assault class bonus a fitting reduction for weaponry and the assault racial bonuses improvements to specific types of weaponry. If you don't like one of them, how about make a suggestions for something else that will improve the weapon for assaults in a more balanced way?
I mean, it really just makes sense.
Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level
Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level
So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage.
Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons.
Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level
So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons.
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +5% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment.
Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons.
This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A."
That is a good idea but for logi I would left the rep bonus why u ask
I running true logi in game Uplink Nano Rep Injector witch is most Pro and I cant put much armor plates and shield to survive long
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Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
99
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 19:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
Caldari Assault/Rail Rifle user here. As others have mentioned, increasing the zoom doesn't really help us. I actually kind of like your idea of reducing charge up time, as it would make the Rail rifle much more viable in close quarters, but it would need to be significant enough to make a difference.
I think the RR's kick and recoil are pretty minimized once the weapon has been fully skilled into, so overlapping with the weapon's skills isn't really needed. Proficiency also makes it hit like a freight train even without damage mods, so a damage increase isn't needed either.
Personally, I would like an increased magazine size over anything else; even with the slower rate of fire, I feel like I spend more time reloading than I did with an Assault rifle. Combining this with an increased RoF (by way of a shorter charge time) would help Caldari assaults with Caldari weapons actually assault instead of just trading shots at range. |
Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
4642
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:Caldari Assault/Rail Rifle user here. As others have mentioned, increasing the zoom doesn't really help us. I actually kind of like your idea of reducing charge up time, as it would make the Rail rifle much more viable in close quarters, but it would need to be significant enough to make a difference.
I think the RR's kick and recoil are pretty minimized once the weapon has been fully skilled into, so overlapping with the weapon's skills isn't really needed. Proficiency also makes it hit like a freight train even without damage mods, so a damage increase isn't needed either.
Personally, I would like an increased magazine size over anything else; even with the slower rate of fire, I feel like I spend more time reloading than I did with an Assault rifle. Combining this with an increased RoF (by way of a shorter charge time) would help Caldari assaults with Caldari weapons actually assault instead of just trading shots at range.
Edit: For the record, I actually like current idea of Cal Assaults increasing shield extender HP, but giving assaults bonuses to their racial weapons across the board really does make more sense. I agree that it would be bad to overlap skills. Rail rifles already have a kick bonus, no need to give it a further one.
I am thinking the best alternative for the Caldari Assault bonus would be similar to the Minmatar bonus but altered for rail weaponry.
+5% rail weaponry clip size per level.
Amarr Victor!
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
470
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
...
I LIKE IT!! |
straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
160
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
My only concern is it forces you into a particular weapon. I run exclusively Caldari suits but use the combat rifle. If i run a FW with all Caldari bro's and the inevitable CQC nerf for the RR comes along, then we are all stuck with long rang weapons that are relatively ineffective in closer range.
I like the idea in principle but believe the bonus to weaponry should be more vanilla to allow varied weapons to be used.
That's why i guess I'm more in favour of defensive based bonuses i.e. Caldari shield etc...
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Oswald Rehnquist
1050
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Theoretically,
If you increase the RR spool up to say .5 and give it a + 30 M to effective and optimal, then all you would need is the spool up time. IT's a buff and a nerf at the same time enforcing its range role.
Below 28 dB
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Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
4646
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
straya fox wrote:My only concern is it forces you into a particular weapon. I run exclusively Caldari suits but use the combat rifle. If i run a FW with all Caldari bro's and the inevitable CQC nerf for the RR comes along, then we are all stuck with long rang weapons that are relatively ineffective in closer range.
I like the idea in principle but believe the bonus to weaponry should be more vanilla to allow varied weapons to be used.
That's why i guess I'm more in favour of defensive based bonuses i.e. Caldari shield etc...
Is it not the same thing with the Logistics then? With their racial bonuses being for specific equipment? Or the Commandos' racial bonuses?
I don't see this as forcing you to do anything, as no matter what weapon you choose you are going to get up to a 25% reduction in CPU/PG making it the ideal suit to carry strong firearms either way. However, the racial bonus applying to a playstyle a little more specific to that race just makes sense to me. Each suit will be ideal for a certain set of weapons if you really want to specialize, but even if you don't and want to mix and match you are still getting a strong bonus for those weapons.
Amarr Victor!
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
echo47
Minmatar Republic
166
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level. NO.
I would rather see a range bonus than this.
This bonus along with the rate of fire bonus for Gal give too much of an edge to proto users with modded controllers.
I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
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Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
4647
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
echo47 wrote:Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level. NO.
I would rather see a range bonus than this.
This bonus along with the rate of fire bonus for Gal give too much of an edge to proto users with modded controllers.
Do you have any evidence to this? I mean, this is the current Amarr Assault bonus and from my experience there is no problem with modded controllers among the player base (though I have been accused of using one myself).
Amarr Victor!
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
echo47
Minmatar Republic
166
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 06:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:echo47 wrote:Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level. NO.
I would rather see a range bonus than this.
This bonus along with the rate of fire bonus for Gal give too much of an edge to proto users with modded controllers.
Do you have any evidence to this? I mean, this is the current Amarr Assault bonus and from my experience there is no problem with modded controllers among the player base (though I have been accused of using one myself).
I never liked this bonus for that reason. I tried a friends without an Amarr suit no bonus. The SR basically shot like a like laser 4 to 5 burst with one tap. If CCP can't or will not code to negate modded controllers they should at least not have bonuses that benefit them.
I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
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Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
440
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 12:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Great idea Aero! The best alternative I've seen so far!
+1
Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó
Trained Skills
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1327
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 13:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
The Racial Logi bonuses are bad. It's the equivalent of this.
Assault bonus: -5% PG/CPU useage for weapons... Great, this is actually quite fitting. Then the fun starts...
Amarr Assault: -5% heat buildup for Scrambler Rifles per level
Caldari Assault: +5% range for Rail Rifles Rifles per level
Gallente Assault: +5% Blaster Rifle damage per level
Minmatar Assault: +5% magazine size for Combat Rifles per level
They create 2 problems.
1. Some of these weapons would be downright OP with bonuses like these
(Some of the Equipment(Scanners for Gallogi, and Hives for Callogi) would be too damn strong)
2. They force roles upon a player, and if a player wants to make use of their bonus, they are forced to use a specific weapon
(Not every Gallogi signed up to be a walking radar dish, not every Amarr Logi signed up tobe an uplink carrier, ect. )
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
|
Ripley Riley
319
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 13:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level[/b]
I think the rail spool-up time is intentionally meant to be a set amount of time. That is the trade-off for using rails. I'm not sure if decreasing it is something CCP ever plans on doing.
The zoom bonus is pretty nice. At V that would be a 10% increase in zoom, so that would take a x3 zoom to x3.3. Not sure most players would notice that. 4% more zoom might be more appropriate, but we'll start with 2% and see how it goes.
Good post.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4667
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 17:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:
2. They force roles upon a player, and if a player wants to make use of their bonus, they are forced to use a specific weapon
(Not every Gallogi signed up to be a walking radar dish, not every Amarr Logi signed up tobe an uplink carrier, ect. )
That is why they call them SPECIALIZATIONS. They are for people who want to specialize into a more defined playstyle. You aren't forced to specialize.
Ripley Riley wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 2% more zoom on rail weapons per level[/b] I think the rail spool-up time is intentionally meant to be a set amount of time. That is the trade-off for using rails. I'm not sure if decreasing it is something CCP ever plans on doing. The zoom bonus is pretty nice. At V that would be a 10% increase in zoom, so that would take a x3 zoom to x3.3. Not sure most players would notice that. 4% more zoom might be more appropriate, but we'll start with 2% and see how it goes. Good post.
Well again, the actual bonus I listed doesn't necessarily be the one to go with, but anything related to improving rail weaponry.
Amarr Victor!
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
100
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 17:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:
...The zoom bonus is pretty nice. At V that would be a 10% increase in zoom, so that would take a x3 zoom to x3.3. Not sure most players would notice that. 4% more zoom might be more appropriate, but we'll start with 2% and see how it goes.
This statement contradicts itself. I agree that most players probably wouldn't even notice 10% increase in zoom, and even if they did, why would they want it?
Sniper rifles are poor weapons inside of 100m because of the zoom on their scopes; your vision is so narrowed when aiming through the scope you can't maintain view of a target strafing off of your line of sight. You can't use the scope if you want to keep track of your target, and if you are close enough to get hits with a sniper rifle without using the scope, your close enough for a sidearm weapon to be a better choice.
Drastically increasing the zoom of the rail rifle would make it even less usable in close quarters then it already is; slightly increasing the zoom is won't have any benefit to the user, if they even notice the difference.
A zoom bonus for rail weapons would at best be worthless and at worst be an actual detriment to the user.
As for the spool up time, a racial bonus to help counter a specific handicap makes perfect sense. As of right now, Amarr assaults have a bonus to keep scrambler and rail rifles from overheating. The weapons have a very specific weakness and the suits help mitigate that fact. Caldari suits reducing the spool time for Caldari weapons follows the same logic. |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4835
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 17:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
I was going to say 5% zoom per level but thought 25% zoom might be too much, but in retrospect I suppose not. either way, there are better bonuses for rail weaponry
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4835
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 07:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
Giving this a bump since CCP Remnant is doing a lot of discussion about scout bonuses, so if devs are up to discussing suit bonuses . . .
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
Happy Violentime
L0ST PR0FITS
174
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 08:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:I would love this to hell.
My min assault would be able to fit my Proto ACR and Flaylock, and be good with both of them!
I LIKE IT.
IT MAKES SENSE.
CCP WILL NEVER DO IT.
Your mini assault is CPU crippled and would need to fit a CPU extender in a low.
Whereas op is giving CPU bonuses to suits with more than 2 lows giving them wildly more fitting options. |
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CCP Remnant
C C P
C C P Alliance
603
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 08:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
|
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The-Errorist
458
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 09:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won! |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5514
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 09:43:00 -
[66] - Quote
I support this thread just because I get to keep my fire rate.
I don't want to lose the Assault fire rate bonus because I want to hear a duvolle fire at an extreme RPM higher than a balac 
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
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CCP Remnant
C C P
C C P Alliance
613
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 09:46:00 -
[67] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won!
Common sense is a harsh mistress. |
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The-Errorist
458
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 09:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I support this thread just because I get to keep my fire rate. I don't want to lose the Assault fire rate bonus because I want to hear a duvolle fire at an extreme RPM higher than a balac
A balac will have an insane RoF then and sound even better. |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4858
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 09:48:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:The-Errorist wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won! Common sense is a harsh mistress.
Glad you like the Assault role bonus. What do you think of the racial bonuses? Not necessarily the exact ones listed, but the idea that they should be bonuses aimed at making certain weapons operate better.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5518
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 10:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:The-Errorist wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won! Common sense is a harsh mistress.
Remnant, keep the 10% ROF for Gallente Assault please, I want to hear the Duvolle ROAR :3
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4871
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Posted - 2014.01.13 10:15:00 -
[71] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:The-Errorist wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won! Common sense is a harsh mistress. Remnant, keep the 10% ROF for Gallente Assault please, I want to hear the Duvolle ROAR :3
I see what you did there, but you're not fooling anyone. The bonus was 5% per level.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5520
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 10:18:00 -
[72] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:The-Errorist wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won! Common sense is a harsh mistress. Remnant, keep the 10% ROF for Gallente Assault please, I want to hear the Duvolle ROAR :3 I see what you did there, but you're not fooling anyone. The bonus was 5% per level.
2% per level, 10% at max level.
But if you want to buff it to 5% per level be my guest 
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4875
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Posted - 2014.01.13 10:19:00 -
[73] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
Remnant, keep the 10% ROF for Gallente Assault please, I want to hear the Duvolle ROAR :3
I see what you did there, but you're not fooling anyone. The bonus was 5% per level. 2% per level, 10% at max level. But if you want to buff it to 5% per level be my guest
D'oh, I've been up for too long
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
7834
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Posted - 2014.01.13 11:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
Remnant, keep the 10% ROF for Gallente Assault please, I want to hear the Duvolle ROAR :3
I see what you did there, but you're not fooling anyone. The bonus was 5% per level. 2% per level, 10% at max level. But if you want to buff it to 5% per level be my guest D'oh, I've been up for too long
This seems like a good time to chime in on the Gallente bonus.
25% RoF is -ridiculously- powerful as a bonus. It probably shouldn't come in that high, as much as I'd love it.
But more RoF would do wonders for the plasma rifle. Although once it was king due to being the only rifle the new ranges and rifles have relegated it to being one of the worst rifles. Any assault weapon can compete with it or outperform it in most ways, with the possible exception of the ARR.
This bonus would change things. RoF is important in CQC and it would also give the plasma rifle the DPS it needs to actually outperform other rifles at CQC, as it should. As a blaster it should completely destroy things in close range.
So the RoF bonus is something I would absolutely love to see on the PR. The numbers are something to quibble ove, of course, but that would be an excellent bonus for the PR that would give it some life.
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Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
904
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Posted - 2014.01.13 14:33:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Please go for this, the RoF bonus cancels out the bonuses that the Sentinels and Commandos will soon have.
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1837
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Posted - 2014.01.13 14:35:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
\O/
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Maximus Stryker
Who Are Those Guys
772
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Posted - 2014.01.13 14:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
this is great and I like a lot.
What are your thoughts on Sentinel, Commando and Scout? (same a purposed in other threads from data dump or did you have something else in mind?)
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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
181
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:03:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
I don't get this at all? Why for assaults? Yeah it frees up fitting space for modules, but how does it help to set the class apart from the logis? It is an ASSAULT class, not a here, put whatever gun on whatever suit you want because it will cost a little less.
You take the Amarr Ak.0 where cpu/pg isn't really a problem, what good does this do? I'm a minmatar, we currently have the weakest assault suit out there and this bonus would be DOGSHIT. I fit the CR, the smallest CPU/PG hog in the game, Why would I want this bonus over a 10% ROF??? Hell, give me back my 100 SmG rnds/clip before you I get a fitting bonus to weapon and sidearm.
Look, unless there's something I'm missing where there will be a nerf to all suits' cpu/pg and running proto weaps will be hard to do...this bonus is pointless. If it doesn't help to distinguish the class from the other suits then why have it at all? A 10% ROF increase, and you will know an assault is on the field. It is a different class altogether. And within that class there are subtleties -- insert racial suits here.
If you just reduce light weapons fittings we will be right back in square one, watered down logistics suits as assault suits. I thought the whole point of this was to seperate the logi and the assault classes? Not just make a Logi suit with 1 equip slot??? |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4912
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:23:00 -
[79] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
I don't get this at all? Why for assaults? Yeah it frees up fitting space for modules, but how does it help to set the class apart from the logis? It is an ASSAULT class, not a here, put whatever gun on whatever suit you want because it will cost a little less. You take the Amarr Ak.0 where cpu/pg isn't really a problem, what good does this do? I'm a minmatar, we currently have the weakest assault suit out there and this bonus would be DOGSHIT. I fit the CR, the smallest CPU/PG hog in the game, Why would I want this bonus over a 10% ROF??? Hell, give me back my 100 SmG rnds/clip before you I get a fitting bonus to weapon and sidearm. Look, unless there's something I'm missing where there will be a nerf to all suits' cpu/pg and running proto weaps will be hard to do...this bonus is pointless. If it doesn't help to distinguish the class from the other suits then why have it at all? A 10% ROF increase, and you will know an assault is on the field. It is a different class altogether. And within that class there are subtleties -- insert racial suits here. If you just reduce light weapons fittings we will be right back in square one, watered down logistics suits as assault suits. I thought the whole point of this was to seperate the logi and the assault classes? Not just make a Logi suit with 1 equip slot??? You wouldn't go with the same stats as assault suits now, you would adjust them appropriately. And having a weaponry fitting reduction would help assaults the same way a fitting reduction for euipment helps logis. If done properly, Assaults would be the only role capable of running two prototype weapons without making sacrifices
10% ROF increase and it fails to account for quite a bit of frontline weaponry like the scrambler rifle.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Kaughst
WarRavens
League of Infamy
172
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
I came on the forums for the first time in a while to Like and say that I support a direction like this with suit bonuses.
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Minmatar Republic
1009
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:42:00 -
[81] - Quote
Seems commonsense to me that logis would mirror the heavy class and assaults would be some where in between.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
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8020
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Posted - 2014.01.13 16:32:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:The-Errorist wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won! Common sense is a harsh mistress.
I would strongly suggest having the assaults have bonuses that enhance their weapons. Assaults are about offense, the bonuses should reflect that.
If you have a bonus like CPU/PG reduction that doesn't increase weapon performance, then I STRONGLY suggest having racial bonuses that do increase effectiveness of racial weapon.
I would be fine with a crappy badly thought out role bonus, the more serious issue are the role bonuses you guys are thinking of implementing. I cannt emphasize enough that assaults should have bonuses to enhance their race's weapons (magazine size, heat buildup reduction, etc).
Basically the racial bonuses are a much much bigger issue than the role bonus.
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Critical-Impact
1872
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Posted - 2014.01.13 16:36:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Give me back my laser heat build reduction, please i beg of you. I love my Amarr Ass suit with scram rifle but i just do not see a reason to stick with the amarr assault suit without this bonus.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12011
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Posted - 2014.01.13 16:58:00 -
[84] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
I don't get this at all? Why for assaults? Yeah it frees up fitting space for modules, but how does it help to set the class apart from the logis? It is an ASSAULT class, not a here, put whatever gun on whatever suit you want because it will cost a little less. You take the Amarr Ak.0 where cpu/pg isn't really a problem, what good does this do? I'm a minmatar, we currently have the weakest assault suit out there and this bonus would be DOGSHIT. I fit the CR, the smallest CPU/PG hog in the game, Why would I want this bonus over a 10% ROF??? Hell, give me back my 100 SmG rnds/clip before you I get a fitting bonus to weapon and sidearm. Look, unless there's something I'm missing where there will be a nerf to all suits' cpu/pg and running proto weaps will be hard to do...this bonus is pointless. If it doesn't help to distinguish the class from the other suits then why have it at all? A 10% ROF increase, and you will know an assault is on the field. It is a different class altogether. And within that class there are subtleties -- insert racial suits here. If you just reduce light weapons fittings we will be right back in square one, watered down logistics suits as assault suits. I thought the whole point of this was to seperate the logi and the assault classes? Not just make a Logi suit with 1 equip slot???
Lowered weapons (which typically eats the most cpu and grid of some of my fits. Allows me to fit heavier modules elsewhere such as damage mods, shields, biotics, and armor and many other things an assault find useful to get to the front lines and kill. This bonus also applies to all light weapons near perfectly useful where as the ROF only applies to full auto weapons which is only about a third of all weapons.
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
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4922
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Posted - 2014.01.13 17:43:00 -
[85] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:The-Errorist wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won! Common sense is a harsh mistress. I would strongly suggest having the assaults have bonuses that enhance their weapons. Assaults are about offense, the bonuses should reflect that. If you have a bonus like CPU/PG reduction that doesn't increase weapon performance, then I STRONGLY suggest having racial bonuses that do increase effectiveness of racial weapon. I would be fine with a crappy badly thought out role bonus, the more serious issue are the role bonuses you guys are thinking of implementing. I cannt emphasize enough that assaults should have bonuses to enhance their race's weapons (magazine size, heat buildup reduction, etc). Basically the racial bonuses are a much much bigger issue than the role bonus.
A CPU/PG reduction weaponry bonus is a bonus for offensive capabilities as it allows you to fit better weapons (without needing to make sacrifices). Definitely agree that the racial bonuses should also be bonuses aimed towards the effectiveness of racial weapons.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1843
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:05:00 -
[86] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:The-Errorist wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
Common sense won! Common sense is a harsh mistress. I would strongly suggest having the assaults have bonuses that enhance their weapons. Assaults are about offense, the bonuses should reflect that. If you have a bonus like CPU/PG reduction that doesn't increase weapon performance, then I STRONGLY suggest having racial bonuses that do increase effectiveness of racial weapon. I would be fine with a crappy badly thought out role bonus, the more serious issue are the role bonuses you guys are thinking of implementing. I cannt emphasize enough that assaults should have bonuses to enhance their race's weapons (magazine size, heat buildup reduction, etc). Basically the racial bonuses are a much much bigger issue than the role bonus. A CPU/PG reduction weaponry bonus is a bonus for offensive capabilities as it allows you to fit better weapons (without needing to make sacrifices). Definitely agree that the racial bonuses should also be bonuses aimed towards the effectiveness of racial weapons.
Yup Yup!
I want my Minnie Assault to have bonuses toward it's racial weapons: The CR, MD, Flaylock, and MD. I would love to go full Winmatar, and trash anyone who dares use my weapons on another suit.
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
217
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 00:32:00 -
[87] - Quote
+1 very well thought out, I am assuming you are lumping the scram in with lasers, if so you should clarify, if not well it should be.
Also a 25% dps increase to ARs is a bit much
Other wise very awesome. This is a much better Idea then turning them in to faster killers when most people think ttk is too low anyways. |
Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
2857
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Posted - 2014.01.14 00:36:00 -
[88] - Quote
+all of the likes that have been given on this forum and any other forum in the history of forums
That is pure genius!!!!!
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1418
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Posted - 2014.01.14 01:02:00 -
[89] - Quote
The Gallente and Caldari ones are pretty bad. The Minmatar one is also kinda iffy on a racial standpoint.
The Gallente one is a direct increase to Damage Per Second, and also makes the recoil checks happen faster. If the Gallente weapons ever GET a decent recoil, that would make skilling into them detrimental as your sustained accuracy would decrease.
The Caldari one is a tiny, tiny buff to the already miniscule charge period on RR, or a iffy buff on the balanced-to-it's-charge Charge Rifle. The only Rail weapons with charge times big enough to really feel are on the Heavy and vehicles, so it feels like a bit of a waste. The zoom is also iffy, because if you cannot manually adjust the zoom then getting a more powerful scope can screw over as often as help. It would force Caldari players to battle from farther and farther away, or to adjust their ADS sensitivity whenever they switched to Caldari.
As for the Minmatar, explosives are NOT the Minmatar's thing, or not JUST their thing. Rockets and Missiles are more of a Caldari weapon, as evidenced by the Swarm Launcher. They manifest as a Minmatar weapon here because it was the only way to make a man-portable Artillery Turret was to make it a mortar/grenade launcher. As for the grenades and remote explosives, they are not only not 'weapons' on a slot-minded sense, but they are more of a racial checklist, handing out the initial equipment in a cycle to keep each race 'equal.'
Also, the main point of the thread has a glaring issue. If you make the Assault suit equal to the Logistics suit, you make them equal. It sounds mental that way, but let me explain. If the suits are the same sans bonuses, with the only difference being an equipment slot or a sidearm slot, what's the difference? A 5% reduction to the fitting of a gun is about equal to the 5% reduction from equipment, so the two suits would be almost identical. Unlike EVE there isn't a huge role distinction because of huge competition for slots. I can't fire my sidearm and main weapon at the same time, so having two guns being able to fit on me isn't nearly as important as it would be on a Hurricane. Also, I don't have to chose 'weapon OR repair' for my high slots because of the differentiation of Weapon and Equip slots. Also, you can't really have a noncombat role in an FPS like you can in EVE, everyone is going to have as big a gun as they can get.
So in short, why would you go Logi if a squad of Assaults can carry the equipment between themselves and have combat bonuses? Logi would need HUGE bonuses to the OUTPUT of their tools, as would Assaults. Maybe compensate by weakening the weapons or upping HP so that Assaults kill noticeably faster, and that other classes have a lower output with the same weaponry. Scouts compensate with their speed and closing power, so they can use more powerful weapons like Shotty or knives. Heavies have tons of HP and the strictly more powerful Heavy class of weapons. The Logi would end up being the weakest in combat because it would then share the same weapons as an Assault, but without any bonuses. This would make Logi players either use their tools to their fullest, with the huge role bonuses, or swap to Assault because it is the best Light weapon user.
Anyway, I ramble.
Shields as Weapons
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Auris Lionesse
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
55
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Posted - 2014.01.14 01:08:00 -
[90] - Quote
Why does gallente get a useless bonus? |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE SPADES
197
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Posted - 2014.01.14 01:43:00 -
[91] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:CLARIFICATION: The exact bonuses listed are only to give you the general idea for what I'm talking about, which is making the assault class bonus a fitting reduction for weaponry and the assault racial bonuses improvements to specific types of weaponry. If you don't like one of them, how about make a suggestions for something else that will improve the weapon for assaults in a more balanced way?
I mean, it really just makes sense.
Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level
Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level
So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage.
Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons.
Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 5% more zoom on rail weapons per level
So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons.
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +2% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment.
Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons.
This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A."
caldari would be off with a bonus to optimal range on rail rifles. the current zoom is already good enought that we can see things beyond our effective range. bringing the optimal range up would give us more effective use of the zoom and our range.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE SPADES
197
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 01:47:00 -
[92] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:+1 very well thought out, I am assuming you are lumping the scram in with lasers, if so you should clarify, if not well it should be.
Also a 25% dps increase to ARs is a bit much
Other wise very awesome. This is a much better Idea then turning them in to faster killers when most people think ttk is too low anyways. Also mim dont really benefit form the ROF increase, CR is limited by how fast you can pull unless you use a turbo at which point its already OP, and the ACRs fire rate is too fast for how small its clip is, but a clip bonus would give a negligible bonus to the already powerful CR, and a much needed bonus to the ACR. I like.
not really, it makes sense to me. blasters are dps kings in Even but with very short range. this would be the same thing here and make them very effective at short range combat |
The Robot Devil
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
1549
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Posted - 2014.01.14 01:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:CLARIFICATION: The exact bonuses listed are only to give you the general idea for what I'm talking about, which is making the assault class bonus a fitting reduction for weaponry and the assault racial bonuses improvements to specific types of weaponry. If you don't like one of them, how about make a suggestions for something else that will improve the weapon for assaults in a more balanced way?
I mean, it really just makes sense.
Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level
Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level
So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage.
Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons.
Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 5% more zoom on rail weapons per level
So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons.
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +2% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment.
Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons.
This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A."
Now we are getting somewhere. I was envisioning something more like this
I am doing Amarr because I like the Laser Rifle. Amarr is armor and energy weapons.
Militia
Logi 50% bonus to remote armor repair amount (no per level, just a flat bonus)
Assault 37.5% reduction in Heat buildup (no per level, just a flat bonus)
Scout 25% Scan profile reduction (no per level, just a flat bonus)
Heavy 25% bonus to armor plate effectiveness (no per level, just a flat bonus)
Standard
Logi 10% bonus to repair tool amount per level of logi
Assault 5% Reload Speed for energy weapons per level of assault
Assault 2 5% deduction in heat build up and cool down time per level of assault
Assault 3 3% bonus to damage for energy weapons per level of assault
Scout 1 10% reduction in CPU usage for cloaks per level of scout
Scout 2 7.5% bonus to scrambler pistol range per level of scout
Heavy 1 5% reduction in Heavy Laser cool down per level of heavy
Heavy 2 7.5% bonus to plate effectiveness per level of heavy
Advanced
Logi 10% bonus to repair tool range and amount per level of logi
Assault 5% Reload Speed for energy weapons and armor repair module amount per level of assault
Assault 2 5% deduction in heat build up and cool down time per level of assault
Assault 3 5% bonus to range and damage for energy weapons per level of assault
Scout 1 10% reduction in CPU usage and time to fire delay for cloaks per level of scout
Scout 2 7.5% bonus to scrambler pistols range and 5% bonus to armor module effectiveness per level of scout
Heavy 1 5% reduction in Heavy Laser cool down and heat build up per level of heavy
Heavy 2 7.5% bonus to plate effectiveness and reload speed per level of heavy
Prototype
Logi 7.5% bonus to repair tool range and amount per level of logi, 15% bonus to armor plate effectiveness
Assault 3% bonus to damage for energy weapons per level, 3% reduction in heat build up per level, 10% bonus to armor repair amount
Assault 2 3% reduction in cool down time and feedback damage per level, 7.5% bonus to range
Scout 7.5% bonus to armor repair module amount and 5% bonus for energy weapon damage per level, 80% reduction in CPU for cloaks
Heavy 5% bonus to Heavy Energy weapon fire and heat build up per level and 25% reduction in feedback damage.
Militia suits would get a static bonus, Standards would have one per level bonus, Advanced would have two per level bonuses and Prototype would have two per level and one static bonus. Each suit for each tech type would need to have its slots and resources tweaked by professionals but the thrust is that each suit in the game should be different, not better than the lower one, different. Yes, Standard and Advanced are very similar but that is because I wanted them to be a natural stepping stone to the next but prototype should be a different monster all together and be focused on a weapon or play style.
Prototypes, to me, should be less flexible and more focused on the job they were developed for where as the Advanced should just be a different and slightly more powerful version of standards. Militia suits are to get a feel for the role and used to the tech of the race, standard suits should allow mercs to start specialization but not be confined to one style. Advanced suits should be the most flexible but heavily bonused toward racial tech.
25 suits for Amarr, that is 100 for the four races and doesn't include specialty suits like Black Eagles. This is what we need in dust.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
3893
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Posted - 2014.01.14 01:51:00 -
[94] - Quote
Just to fix this (It bothers me and I have OCD), it's spool-up time, not "charge up time". :P |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4981
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:02:00 -
[95] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Just to fix this (It bothers me and I have OCD), it's spool-up time, not "charge up time". :P
Yes, but it's listed as charge up time on the rail rifle stat sheet in game so that's why I wrote that.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4981
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:04:00 -
[96] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:+1 very well thought out, I am assuming you are lumping the scram in with lasers, if so you should clarify, if not well it should be.
Also a 25% dps increase to ARs is a bit much
Other wise very awesome. This is a much better Idea then turning them in to faster killers when most people think ttk is too low anyways. Also mim dont really benefit form the ROF increase, CR is limited by how fast you can pull unless you use a turbo at which point its already OP, and the ACRs fire rate is too fast for how small its clip is, but a clip bonus would give a negligible bonus to the already powerful CR, and a much needed bonus to the ACR. I like.
Scrambler rifles are pulse lasers, there is no need to clarify. This is currently how it is listed in game now.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5650
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:08:00 -
[97] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:hgghyujh wrote:+1 very well thought out, I am assuming you are lumping the scram in with lasers, if so you should clarify, if not well it should be.
Also a 25% dps increase to ARs is a bit much
Other wise very awesome. This is a much better Idea then turning them in to faster killers when most people think ttk is too low anyways. Also mim dont really benefit form the ROF increase, CR is limited by how fast you can pull unless you use a turbo at which point its already OP, and the ACRs fire rate is too fast for how small its clip is, but a clip bonus would give a negligible bonus to the already powerful CR, and a much needed bonus to the ACR. I like. Scrambler rifles are pulse lasers, there is no need to clarify. This is currently how it is listed in game now.
Indeed the current iterations of the Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifles in Dust reflects the Beam Laser and Pulse Laser, respectively, turret technologies in EVE.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall.
For faith is your armour and through it, the enemy will find no breach"
-Askura 10:3
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The Robot Devil
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
1549
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Just to fix this (It bothers me and I have OCD), it's spool-up time, not "charge up time". :P
I haven't read the description, I know the difference in the two times but I don't know what description is for what weapon.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
8041
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
I don't get this at all? Why for assaults? Yeah it frees up fitting space for modules, but how does it help to set the class apart from the logis? It is an ASSAULT class, not a here, put whatever gun on whatever suit you want because it will cost a little less. You take the Amarr Ak.0 where cpu/pg isn't really a problem, what good does this do? I'm a minmatar, we currently have the weakest assault suit out there and this bonus would be DOGSHIT. I fit the CR, the smallest CPU/PG hog in the game, Why would I want this bonus over a 10% ROF??? Hell, give me back my 100 SmG rnds/clip before you I get a fitting bonus to weapon and sidearm. Look, unless there's something I'm missing where there will be a nerf to all suits' cpu/pg and running proto weaps will be hard to do...this bonus is pointless. If it doesn't help to distinguish the class from the other suits then why have it at all? A 10% ROF increase, and you will know an assault is on the field. It is a different class altogether. And within that class there are subtleties -- insert racial suits here. If you just reduce light weapons fittings we will be right back in square one, watered down logistics suits as assault suits. I thought the whole point of this was to seperate the logi and the assault classes? Not just make a Logi suit with 1 equip slot??? Lowered weapons (which typically eats the most cpu and grid of some of my fits. Allows me to fit heavier modules elsewhere such as damage mods, shields, biotics, and armor and many other things an assault find useful to get to the front lines and kill. This bonus also applies to all light weapons near perfectly useful where as the ROF only applies to full auto weapons which is only about a third of all weapons.
Yeah, but only indirectly. By this logic the logistic bonus to fitting equipment is equally an offensive bonus since it helps you save PG/CPU to fit better stuff.
I'm not talking about something indirect.
I think the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so the racial rifles will be as strong as they currently are in the hands of a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1518
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
Scrambler rifles are lasers, for the guy worried about lumping them in with lasers.
Specifically scrams fall under the category of "pulse laser"
Laser rifles fall under "beam weapons"
Both are lasers. |
Celus Ivara
DUST University
Ivy League
152
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Posted - 2014.01.15 04:40:00 -
[101] - Quote
So with literally 100 posts before me, I'm sure this was brought up somewhere in there, but I'd like to state for the record that if Assaults and Logis don't have the same (or very nearly the same) base CPU/PG then the fitting bonuses do little-to-nothing.
People are using the Logis as Assaults right now because the suits are highly similar in base stats and function, but with the Logis having far more base CPU/PG.
To run an example under your proposal, if an Assault suit has a 25% bonus to fitting weapons, but a Logi suit has 33% more base CPU/PG, aren't we still stuck in the same dynamic as we are today?
Also, I'm concerned about the weapon specific bonuses being possibly too useful, and thus making optimized fits too strict. If a player is mathematically provably a fool for using any weapon other than the only one receiving the bonus then they will use only that weapon, and thus go from a dozen different viable fits to one (thus losing choice, which isn't fun). And additionally, this runs the risk of that one fit being too powerful (which will turn the four racial suits into four FOTM).
I get where you're coming from.
There's a lot of core wisdom in your logic.
But I'm worried that other factors will make this proposed fix un-viable. :( |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5193
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Posted - 2014.01.17 01:05:00 -
[102] - Quote
Bumping since KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf made another thread stating almost all the same stuff, so double the emphasis!
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
689
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Posted - 2014.01.17 05:20:00 -
[103] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:CLARIFICATION: The exact bonuses listed are only to give you the general idea for what I'm talking about, which is making the assault class bonus a fitting reduction for weaponry and the assault racial bonuses improvements to specific types of weaponry. If you don't like one of them, how about make a suggestions for something else that will improve the weapon for assaults in a more balanced way?
I mean, it really just makes sense.
Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level
Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level
So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage.
Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level
So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons.
Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 5% more zoom on rail weapons per level
So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons.
Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
Gallente Assault bonus: +2% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level
So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment.
Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level
So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons.
This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A."
Spot on, Aero. +1
I think that's the best role bonus dream sheet i've seen yet.
"Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5209
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Posted - 2014.01.17 05:26:00 -
[104] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
Spot on, Aero. +1
I think that's the best role bonus dream sheet i've seen yet.
Thank you. It honestly does make a lot more sense than bonuses towards specific modules.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
194
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Posted - 2014.01.18 12:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot.
I don't get this at all? Why for assaults? Yeah it frees up fitting space for modules, but how does it help to set the class apart from the logis? It is an ASSAULT class, not a here, put whatever gun on whatever suit you want because it will cost a little less. You take the Amarr Ak.0 where cpu/pg isn't really a problem, what good does this do? I'm a minmatar, we currently have the weakest assault suit out there and this bonus would be DOGSHIT. I fit the CR, the smallest CPU/PG hog in the game, Why would I want this bonus over a 10% ROF??? Hell, give me back my 100 SmG rnds/clip before you I get a fitting bonus to weapon and sidearm. Look, unless there's something I'm missing where there will be a nerf to all suits' cpu/pg and running proto weaps will be hard to do...this bonus is pointless. If it doesn't help to distinguish the class from the other suits then why have it at all? A 10% ROF increase, and you will know an assault is on the field. It is a different class altogether. And within that class there are subtleties -- insert racial suits here. If you just reduce light weapons fittings we will be right back in square one, watered down logistics suits as assault suits. I thought the whole point of this was to seperate the logi and the assault classes? Not just make a Logi suit with 1 equip slot??? Lowered weapons (which typically eats the most cpu and grid of some of my fits. Allows me to fit heavier modules elsewhere such as damage mods, shields, biotics, and armor and many other things an assault find useful to get to the front lines and kill. This bonus also applies to all light weapons near perfectly useful where as the ROF only applies to full auto weapons which is only about a third of all weapons.
Then buff the cpu/pg of the assault suits. The ak.o does not have this problem. The CR suffrs from a reduced benefit. Take the starting EHP of the mk.o, even with reduced fitting reqs you do not free up enough module space to make a meaningful impact on a loadout due to fitting costs of shield enhances and dmg mods. Thes not enough pg to run kincats either. Do you even do math before you toss these bonuses around? Racial suit +racial weapon= reduced module layout from suit bonus on mk.o. That is why you must directly buff the offensive output. Stop trying to build my suit and increase the assault damage. Let me build the suit around offensive capability. If its simply a fitting cost reduction, slayer Logis will still exist. They have nothing requiring them to fill equip slots, still benefit from increased cpu pg and have a favorable slot loadout....where's the separation??
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