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Common Sense: Make the Assault class mirror the Logistics class

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DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 197	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:43:00 - [91] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CLARIFICATION: The exact bonuses listed are only to give you the general idea for what I'm talking about, which is making the assault class bonus a fitting reduction for weaponry and the assault racial bonuses improvements to specific types of weaponry. If you don't like one of them, how about make a suggestions for something else that will improve the weapon for assaults in a more balanced way? I mean, it really just makes sense. Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage. Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons. Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 5% more zoom on rail weapons per level So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons. Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. Gallente Assault bonus: +2% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment. Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons. This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A." caldari would be off with a bonus to optimal range on rail rifles. the current zoom is already good enought that we can see things beyond our effective range. bringing the optimal range up would give us more effective use of the zoom and our range.
DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 197	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:47:00 - [92] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: +1 very well thought out, I am assuming you are lumping the scram in with lasers, if so you should clarify, if not well it should be. Also a 25% dps increase to ARs is a bit much Other wise very awesome. This is a much better Idea then turning them in to faster killers when most people think ttk is too low anyways. Also mim dont really benefit form the ROF increase, CR is limited by how fast you can pull unless you use a turbo at which point its already OP, and the ACRs fire rate is too fast for how small its clip is, but a clip bonus would give a negligible bonus to the already powerful CR, and a much needed bonus to the ACR. I like. not really, it makes sense to me. blasters are dps kings in Even but with very short range. this would be the same thing here and make them very effective at short range combat
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1549	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:50:00 - [93] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CLARIFICATION: The exact bonuses listed are only to give you the general idea for what I'm talking about, which is making the assault class bonus a fitting reduction for weaponry and the assault racial bonuses improvements to specific types of weaponry. If you don't like one of them, how about make a suggestions for something else that will improve the weapon for assaults in a more balanced way? I mean, it really just makes sense. Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage. Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons. Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 5% more zoom on rail weapons per level So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons. Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. Gallente Assault bonus: +2% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment. Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons. This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A." Now we are getting somewhere. I was envisioning something more like this I am doing Amarr because I like the Laser Rifle. Amarr is armor and energy weapons. Militia Logi 50% bonus to remote armor repair amount (no per level, just a flat bonus) Assault 37.5% reduction in Heat buildup (no per level, just a flat bonus) Scout 25% Scan profile reduction (no per level, just a flat bonus) Heavy 25% bonus to armor plate effectiveness (no per level, just a flat bonus) Standard Logi 10% bonus to repair tool amount per level of logi Assault 5% Reload Speed for energy weapons per level of assault Assault 2 5% deduction in heat build up and cool down time per level of assault Assault 3 3% bonus to damage for energy weapons per level of assault Scout 1 10% reduction in CPU usage for cloaks per level of scout Scout 2 7.5% bonus to scrambler pistol range per level of scout Heavy 1 5% reduction in Heavy Laser cool down per level of heavy Heavy 2 7.5% bonus to plate effectiveness per level of heavy Advanced Logi 10% bonus to repair tool range and amount per level of logi Assault 5% Reload Speed for energy weapons and armor repair module amount per level of assault Assault 2 5% deduction in heat build up and cool down time per level of assault Assault 3 5% bonus to range and damage for energy weapons per level of assault Scout 1 10% reduction in CPU usage and time to fire delay for cloaks per level of scout Scout 2 7.5% bonus to scrambler pistols range and 5% bonus to armor module effectiveness per level of scout Heavy 1 5% reduction in Heavy Laser cool down and heat build up per level of heavy Heavy 2 7.5% bonus to plate effectiveness and reload speed per level of heavy Prototype Logi 7.5% bonus to repair tool range and amount per level of logi, 15% bonus to armor plate effectiveness Assault 3% bonus to damage for energy weapons per level, 3% reduction in heat build up per level, 10% bonus to armor repair amount Assault 2 3% reduction in cool down time and feedback damage per level, 7.5% bonus to range Scout 7.5% bonus to armor repair module amount and 5% bonus for energy weapon damage per level, 80% reduction in CPU for cloaks Heavy 5% bonus to Heavy Energy weapon fire and heat build up per level and 25% reduction in feedback damage. Militia suits would get a static bonus, Standards would have one per level bonus, Advanced would have two per level bonuses and Prototype would have two per level and one static bonus. Each suit for each tech type would need to have its slots and resources tweaked by professionals but the thrust is that each suit in the game should be different, not better than the lower one, different. Yes, Standard and Advanced are very similar but that is because I wanted them to be a natural stepping stone to the next but prototype should be a different monster all together and be focused on a weapon or play style. Prototypes, to me, should be less flexible and more focused on the job they were developed for where as the Advanced should just be a different and slightly more powerful version of standards. Militia suits are to get a feel for the role and used to the tech of the race, standard suits should allow mercs to start specialization but not be confined to one style. Advanced suits should be the most flexible but heavily bonused toward racial tech. 25 suits for Amarr, that is 100 for the four races and doesn't include specialty suits like Black Eagles. This is what we need in dust. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 3893	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:51:00 - [94] - Quote Just to fix this (It bothers me and I have OCD), it's spool-up time, not "charge up time". :P
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4981	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:02:00 - [95] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Just to fix this (It bothers me and I have OCD), it's spool-up time, not "charge up time". :P Yes, but it's listed as charge up time on the rail rifle stat sheet in game so that's why I wrote that. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4981	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:04:00 - [96] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: +1 very well thought out, I am assuming you are lumping the scram in with lasers, if so you should clarify, if not well it should be. Also a 25% dps increase to ARs is a bit much Other wise very awesome. This is a much better Idea then turning them in to faster killers when most people think ttk is too low anyways. Also mim dont really benefit form the ROF increase, CR is limited by how fast you can pull unless you use a turbo at which point its already OP, and the ACRs fire rate is too fast for how small its clip is, but a clip bonus would give a negligible bonus to the already powerful CR, and a much needed bonus to the ACR. I like. Scrambler rifles are pulse lasers, there is no need to clarify. This is currently how it is listed in game now. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5650	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:08:00 - [97] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: hgghyujh wrote: +1 very well thought out, I am assuming you are lumping the scram in with lasers, if so you should clarify, if not well it should be. Also a 25% dps increase to ARs is a bit much Other wise very awesome. This is a much better Idea then turning them in to faster killers when most people think ttk is too low anyways. Also mim dont really benefit form the ROF increase, CR is limited by how fast you can pull unless you use a turbo at which point its already OP, and the ACRs fire rate is too fast for how small its clip is, but a clip bonus would give a negligible bonus to the already powerful CR, and a much needed bonus to the ACR. I like. Scrambler rifles are pulse lasers, there is no need to clarify. This is currently how it is listed in game now. Indeed the current iterations of the Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifles in Dust reflects the Beam Laser and Pulse Laser, respectively, turret technologies in EVE. "Face the enemy as a solid wall. For faith is your armour and through it, the enemy will find no breach" -Askura 10:3
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1549	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:12:00 - [98] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Just to fix this (It bothers me and I have OCD), it's spool-up time, not "charge up time". :P I haven't read the description, I know the difference in the two times but I don't know what description is for what weapon. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8041	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:18:00 - [99] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot. I don't get this at all? Why for assaults? Yeah it frees up fitting space for modules, but how does it help to set the class apart from the logis? It is an ASSAULT class, not a here, put whatever gun on whatever suit you want because it will cost a little less. You take the Amarr Ak.0 where cpu/pg isn't really a problem, what good does this do? I'm a minmatar, we currently have the weakest assault suit out there and this bonus would be DOGSHIT. I fit the CR, the smallest CPU/PG hog in the game, Why would I want this bonus over a 10% ROF??? Hell, give me back my 100 SmG rnds/clip before you I get a fitting bonus to weapon and sidearm. Look, unless there's something I'm missing where there will be a nerf to all suits' cpu/pg and running proto weaps will be hard to do...this bonus is pointless. If it doesn't help to distinguish the class from the other suits then why have it at all? A 10% ROF increase, and you will know an assault is on the field. It is a different class altogether. And within that class there are subtleties -- insert racial suits here. If you just reduce light weapons fittings we will be right back in square one, watered down logistics suits as assault suits. I thought the whole point of this was to seperate the logi and the assault classes? Not just make a Logi suit with 1 equip slot??? Lowered weapons (which typically eats the most cpu and grid of some of my fits. Allows me to fit heavier modules elsewhere such as damage mods, shields, biotics, and armor and many other things an assault find useful to get to the front lines and kill. This bonus also applies to all light weapons near perfectly useful where as the ROF only applies to full auto weapons which is only about a third of all weapons. Yeah, but only indirectly. By this logic the logistic bonus to fitting equipment is equally an offensive bonus since it helps you save PG/CPU to fit better stuff. I'm not talking about something indirect. I think the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so the racial rifles will be as strong as they currently are in the hands of a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1518	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:33:00 - [100] - Quote Scrambler rifles are lasers, for the guy worried about lumping them in with lasers. Specifically scrams fall under the category of "pulse laser" Laser rifles fall under "beam weapons" Both are lasers.

Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 152	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:40:00 - [101] - Quote So with literally 100 posts before me, I'm sure this was brought up somewhere in there, but I'd like to state for the record that if Assaults and Logis don't have the same (or very nearly the same) base CPU/PG then the fitting bonuses do little-to-nothing. People are using the Logis as Assaults right now because the suits are highly similar in base stats and function, but with the Logis having far more base CPU/PG. To run an example under your proposal, if an Assault suit has a 25% bonus to fitting weapons, but a Logi suit has 33% more base CPU/PG, aren't we still stuck in the same dynamic as we are today? Also, I'm concerned about the weapon specific bonuses being possibly too useful, and thus making optimized fits too strict. If a player is mathematically provably a fool for using any weapon other than the only one receiving the bonus then they will use only that weapon, and thus go from a dozen different viable fits to one (thus losing choice, which isn't fun). And additionally, this runs the risk of that one fit being too powerful (which will turn the four racial suits into four FOTM). I get where you're coming from. There's a lot of core wisdom in your logic. But I'm worried that other factors will make this proposed fix un-viable. :(
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5193	Posted - 2014.01.17 01:05:00 - [102] - Quote Bumping since KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf made another thread stating almost all the same stuff, so double the emphasis! ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 689	Posted - 2014.01.17 05:20:00 - [103] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CLARIFICATION: The exact bonuses listed are only to give you the general idea for what I'm talking about, which is making the assault class bonus a fitting reduction for weaponry and the assault racial bonuses improvements to specific types of weaponry. If you don't like one of them, how about make a suggestions for something else that will improve the weapon for assaults in a more balanced way? I mean, it really just makes sense. Logistics class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all equipment per level Assault class bonus: 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level So the Logistics class is able to fit prototype equipment without sacrificing its module usage, and the Assault class is able to fit prototype weapons without needing to sacrifice its module usage. Amarr Logistics bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Amarr Assault bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat build up per level So the Amarr Logi gets more efficient Amarr equipment, and the Amarr Assault gets more efficient Amarr weapons. Caldari Logistics bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. Caldari Assault bonus: 5% reduction in rail charge up time and 5% more zoom on rail weapons per level So the Caldari Logi gets more efficient Caldari equipment, and the Caldari Assault gets more efficient Caldari weapons. Gallente Logistics bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. Gallente Assault bonus: +2% rate of fire on all hybrid-plasma weapons per level So the Gallente Logi gets more efficient Gallente equipment, and the Gallente Assault gets more efficient Gallente equipment. Minmatar Logistics bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. Minmatar Assault bonus: +2% explosive blast radius and 5% projectile weaponry clip size per level So the Minmatar Logi gets more efficient equipment, and the Minmatar Assault gets more efficient Minmatar weapons. This message was brought to you by Common Sense and the letter "A." Spot on, Aero. +1 I think that's the best role bonus dream sheet i've seen yet. "Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5209	Posted - 2014.01.17 05:26:00 - [104] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Spot on, Aero. +1 I think that's the best role bonus dream sheet i've seen yet. Thank you. It honestly does make a lot more sense than bonuses towards specific modules. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 194	Posted - 2014.01.18 12:49:00 - [105] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot. I don't get this at all? Why for assaults? Yeah it frees up fitting space for modules, but how does it help to set the class apart from the logis? It is an ASSAULT class, not a here, put whatever gun on whatever suit you want because it will cost a little less. You take the Amarr Ak.0 where cpu/pg isn't really a problem, what good does this do? I'm a minmatar, we currently have the weakest assault suit out there and this bonus would be DOGSHIT. I fit the CR, the smallest CPU/PG hog in the game, Why would I want this bonus over a 10% ROF??? Hell, give me back my 100 SmG rnds/clip before you I get a fitting bonus to weapon and sidearm. Look, unless there's something I'm missing where there will be a nerf to all suits' cpu/pg and running proto weaps will be hard to do...this bonus is pointless. If it doesn't help to distinguish the class from the other suits then why have it at all? A 10% ROF increase, and you will know an assault is on the field. It is a different class altogether. And within that class there are subtleties -- insert racial suits here. If you just reduce light weapons fittings we will be right back in square one, watered down logistics suits as assault suits. I thought the whole point of this was to seperate the logi and the assault classes? Not just make a Logi suit with 1 equip slot??? Lowered weapons (which typically eats the most cpu and grid of some of my fits. Allows me to fit heavier modules elsewhere such as damage mods, shields, biotics, and armor and many other things an assault find useful to get to the front lines and kill. This bonus also applies to all light weapons near perfectly useful where as the ROF only applies to full auto weapons which is only about a third of all weapons. Then buff the cpu/pg of the assault suits. The ak.o does not have this problem. The CR suffrs from a reduced benefit. Take the starting EHP of the mk.o, even with reduced fitting reqs you do not free up enough module space to make a meaningful impact on a loadout due to fitting costs of shield enhances and dmg mods. Thes not enough pg to run kincats either. Do you even do math before you toss these bonuses around? Racial suit +racial weapon= reduced module layout from suit bonus on mk.o. That is why you must directly buff the offensive output. Stop trying to build my suit and increase the assault damage. Let me build the suit around offensive capability. If its simply a fitting cost reduction, slayer Logis will still exist. They have nothing requiring them to fill equip slots, still benefit from increased cpu pg and have a favorable slot loadout....where's the separation??


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