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Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 198	Posted - 2014.01.04 20:54:00 - [1] - Quote CCP wrote: Tanks still feel too strong in 1.7 and AV is not strong enough to stop them - Thread \| Thread WeGÇÖll need to do something about MLT tanks. We will see to rebalance some PG/CPU for equipment and more. More details will come in a dev blog/forum post. This is just wrong. Standard tanks are already MUCH better than militia. This idea that the"problem" is just with militia tanks is not correct. OH and to go from militia tanks to standard tanks cost what, 100k sp? The problem is the av balance with tanks.
N1ck Comeau Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 1741	Posted - 2014.01.04 20:59:00 - [2] - Quote Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. Minmatar Assault. Confused on what weapons i should use :/
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1445	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:11:00 - [3] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. Great so when it comes to that match where a tanker with 20MIL SP comes along on their side and has an overpowered tank, not only can I not beat without nearly 8 peopel doggedly following this one guy, I can't even afford to get a tank in to deal with him either brilliant. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 199	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:13:00 - [4] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. So I guess since we are balancing around isk... the commando ak.o SHOULD be the best suit in the game, seeing as it cost 80% more than any other suit? No, cheap tanks are good, it means that we have a more diverse battlefield and that people with unlimited isk can't just have an i-win mode. Tanks need to be more vulnerable from AV, or MUCH less effective against infantry. ISK is not a balancing factor.
Eurydice Itzhak Providence Guard Templis CALSF 279	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:23:00 - [5] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: CCP LogiBro wrote: Tanks still feel too strong in 1.7 and AV is not strong enough to stop them - Thread \| Thread WeGÇÖll need to do something about MLT tanks. We will see to rebalance some PG/CPU for equipment and more. More details will come in a dev blog/forum post. This is just wrong. Standard tanks are already MUCH better than militia. This idea that the"problem" is just with militia tanks is not correct. OH and to go from militia tanks to standard tanks cost what, 100k sp? The problem is the av balance with tanks. They said in the post you quoted that their either buffing av or nerfing all tanks and mlt tanks on top of that. Reading comprehension.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2050	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:26:00 - [6] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. Great so when it comes to that match where a tanker with 20MIL SP comes along on their side and has an overpowered tank, not only can I not beat without nearly 8 peopel doggedly following this one guy, I can't even afford to get a tank in to deal with him either brilliant. As it is now, instead you'll pop him, but he'll deploy 50 more. I do it all the time. It doesn't matter how much I die. Usually, a group of MLTs will pop my AP HAV. Then I pull out my AV HAV and pop all of them, redeploy as AP HAV, go on my merry way. My current asset level is still 3m higher than last week including alts and tank stocks. Either way, everyone is screwed, because the price is not the only problem. MLT tanks are also not the only problem in terms of strength; I pop them all day long. A good AV tank can wipe 3-4 MLTs in minutes. Sure, I get killed by them occasionally. I still pop five times more of them than they do of me. I 2HKO Sicas before than can even harden and Somas are a 3HKO with my cheap AV Madrugar. One FW, two MLTs are going around to flank, I catch them at the side, blow them up in a 2v1, continue and pop another on a hill, pop 3 more throughout the match. However, once the Ion Cannons are deployed, you're screwed. Those things shred infantry 200m out along with the majority of HAVs that aren't other Ion Cannons or specially tailored for burst defense and offense. With the sheer power of current tanks, tanks needs to be cheap enough just to shred other tanks, otherwise everyone goes negative because one guy pulled out a Madrugar. The price needs to rise and then, in addition, Swarm Launchers and AV Grenades need to be buffed in damage so that you need less tanks to fight tanks. EDIT: Also, obviously, certain things such as stacked hardeners and blaster range need to be looked at. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 200	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:27:00 - [7] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: CCP LogiBro wrote: Tanks still feel too strong in 1.7 and AV is not strong enough to stop them - Thread \| Thread WeGÇÖll need to do something about MLT tanks. We will see to rebalance some PG/CPU for equipment and more. More details will come in a dev blog/forum post. This is just wrong. Standard tanks are already MUCH better than militia. This idea that the"problem" is just with militia tanks is not correct. OH and to go from militia tanks to standard tanks cost what, 100k sp? The problem is the av balance with tanks. They said in the post you quoted that their either buffing av or nerfing all tanks and mlt tanks on top of that. Reading comprehension. I did read, he mentions only militia tanks in that post ergo he was talking about militia tanks and not standard tanks. He did not mention AV. The italic phrase is the issue at hand, the normal font implies CCP logibro response.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5326	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:32:00 - [8] - Quote Tanks are a major force on the battlefield. Be honest, a tank can sway the battlefield alone FAAAAAAAAR more than a single dropsuit can. It forces people to switch to AV, it displaces people, it DESTROYS people, it can take out turrets and other tanks. That kind of force should be expensive. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 205	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:34:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Tanks are a major force on the battlefield. Be honest, a tank can sway the battlefield alone FAAAAAAAAR more than a single dropsuit can. It forces people to switch to AV, it displaces people, it DESTROYS people, it can take out turrets and other tanks. That kind of force should be expensive. No, that kind of force should have a counter. AV should be that counter. Otherwise you get the situation like now where 1 tank >>>> anything else. AV is an annoyance now, not a counter.
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 263	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:44:00 - [10] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Tanks are a major force on the battlefield. Be honest, a tank can sway the battlefield alone FAAAAAAAAR more than a single dropsuit can. It forces people to switch to AV, it displaces people, it DESTROYS people, it can take out turrets and other tanks. That kind of force should be expensive. No, that kind of force should have a counter. AV should be that counter. Otherwise you get the situation like now where 1 tank >>>> anything else. AV is an annoyance now, not a counter. But a tank should not be a solo takedown like it was , then infantery was running towards the tank to get there furst to kill it, no one was affraid of it, it should take some team effort to kill it.

echo47 Minmatar Republic 164	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:45:00 - [11] - Quote I can't see cost as the issue, the problem is the hardners. There should be some sort of drawback other than cool down and overheating. Maybe they should slow down when the hardner is running or not be ablet o fire and only escape. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 986	Posted - 2014.01.04 22:05:00 - [12] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. Some ppl don't hardcore this game enough to make isk. Stop preaching price as a basis for fielding a tank. I shouldn't be restricted in fielding another tank due to isk vs. someone who either plays regularly enough to make isk or has a sugar daddy leet proto corp to fund their tank wh*ring. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 207	Posted - 2014.01.04 22:06:00 - [13] - Quote lordjanuz wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Tanks are a major force on the battlefield. Be honest, a tank can sway the battlefield alone FAAAAAAAAR more than a single dropsuit can. It forces people to switch to AV, it displaces people, it DESTROYS people, it can take out turrets and other tanks. That kind of force should be expensive. No, that kind of force should have a counter. AV should be that counter. Otherwise you get the situation like now where 1 tank >>>> anything else. AV is an annoyance now, not a counter. But a tank should not be a solo takedown like it was , then infantery was running towards the tank to get there first to kill it, no one was affraid of it, it should take some team effort to kill it. So the commando ak.0 should not be a solo take down because it cost as much as a tank (3k isk less) and requires about 2.1 million more sp just to use it. No, a tank should not require teamwork to kill if it does not require teamwork to use. Anything that can be used solo should also be able to be taken out solo. That is the very basis of balance. EDIT: my fault, it requires 2.5 mil more sp just to use it.
Eurydice Itzhak Providence Guard Templis CALSF 281	Posted - 2014.01.04 22:13:00 - [14] - Quote Tanks should require multiple av or another tank to counter. Or dropships. Or jets. Or mtacs. But dust is a bad game. If 1 infantry can solo tanks what is the point of a tank? You gain killing power and lose the ability to fight in cities and cap points. It's a trade off.
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 649	Posted - 2014.01.04 22:36:00 - [15] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. Great so when it comes to that match where a tanker with 20MIL SP comes along on their side and has an overpowered tank, not only can I not beat without nearly 8 peopel doggedly following this one guy, I can't even afford to get a tank in to deal with him either brilliant. Then give us back our swarm launcher. Its caldari weapon it is supposed to have a lot of range and damage. If you dont like that then the price of your vehicles MUST go up.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1404	Posted - 2014.01.04 22:43:00 - [16] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. So I guess since we are balancing around isk... the commando ak.o SHOULD be the best suit in the game, seeing as it cost 80% more than any other suit? No, cheap tanks are good, it means that we have a more diverse battlefield and that people with unlimited isk can't just have an i-win mode. Tanks need to be more vulnerable from AV, or MUCH less effective against infantry. ISK is not a balancing factor. LOL ISK IS A BALANCING FACTOR why do you think people spam them? why do you think when you destroy one they just bring another one in. Isk is a balancing factor now whether it is a major one or not is a different story, but it still is one. If tanks were free and AV cost what it does now, would you say the same. So yes isk does balance. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Shooty Dangerman One Bad Dude 7	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:04:00 - [17] - Quote Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 209	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:05:00 - [18] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tanks should require multiple av or another tank to counter. Or dropships. Or jets. Or mtacs. But dust is a bad game. If 1 infantry can solo tanks what is the point of a tank? You gain killing power and lose the ability to fight in cities and cap points. It's a trade off. The only way that would be even remotely acceptable (gameplay wise) is if tanks had an incredibly hard time killing infantry. You sacrifice hacking (not really, you can always hop out for a second) and city mobility (about 5% of all maps in dust) for invulnerability to over half of the weapons in the game, the ability to solo without any teamwork, and to take out entire squads in mere seconds. The AV'er sacrifices effectiveness against infantry for effectiveness against vehicles, only not really.Not only is a solo AV'er not very effective against vehicles, it is not effective against infantry either. Here let me ask you a question: If ANY tank in the game can kill mountains of infantry.... what is the point of infantry? (need to hack hop out for 5 seconds then resume god mode) If one AV'er is ineffective, what is the point of being an AV'er?
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3392	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:15:00 - [19] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. Price should never go past a certain point. I would explain it here, but I think I'll just make a certain thread about it. We used to have a time machine
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 210	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:18:00 - [20] - Quote Shooty Dangerman wrote: Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need. High prices only makes it so people with unlimited isk are OP, instead of everyone. I have like 500 mil isk, I could run expensive tanks for a VERY long time. I am broke compared to the top 10% in this game.

BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1404	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:22:00 - [21] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Shooty Dangerman wrote: Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need. High prices only makes it so people with unlimited isk are OP, instead of everyone. I have like 500 mil isk, I could run expensive tanks for a VERY long time. I am broke compared to the top 10% in this game. high prices also make it less spamable and make u take a risk. sort of like a titan in EVE not everyone can buy it but it sure is powerful and still can be destroyed by other sources. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 1011	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:22:00 - [22] - Quote Here's the problem. Militia tanks/modules, large railguns, and tiericide for modules. Want something in which you'll be nearly unkillable but bring death to infantry with zero investment? Soma. Want something in which you'll be able to take out any vehicle with zero investment? Sica. Want something that can kill vehicles at any range and still be effective against infantry? Railgun tank. Blasters are not the problem. STD tanks are not the problem. Complex modules are not the problem. But everything above is. Bring tiers back! "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1448	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:22:00 - [23] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. Great so when it comes to that match where a tanker with 20MIL SP comes along on their side and has an overpowered tank, not only can I not beat without nearly 8 peopel doggedly following this one guy, I can't even afford to get a tank in to deal with him either brilliant. As it is now, instead you'll pop him, but he'll deploy 50 more. I do it all the time. It doesn't matter how much I die. Usually, a group of MLTs will pop my AP HAV. Then I pull out my AV HAV and pop all of them, redeploy as AP HAV, go on my merry way. My current asset level is still 3m higher than last week including alts and tank stocks. Either way, everyone is screwed, because the price is not the only problem. MLT tanks are also not the only problem in terms of strength; I pop them all day long. A good AV tank can wipe 3-4 MLTs in minutes. Sure, I get killed by them occasionally. I still pop five times more of them than they do of me. I 2HKO Sicas before than can even harden and Somas are a 3HKO with my cheap AV Madrugar. One FW, two MLTs are going around to flank, I catch them at the side, blow them up in a 2v1, continue and pop another on a hill, pop 3 more throughout the match. However, once the Ion Cannons are deployed, you're screwed. Those things shred infantry 200m out along with the majority of HAVs that aren't other Ion Cannons or specially tailored for burst defense and offense. With the sheer power of current tanks, tanks needs to be cheap enough just to shred other tanks, otherwise everyone goes negative because one guy pulled out a Madrugar. The price needs to rise and then, in addition, Swarm Launchers and AV Grenades need to be buffed in damage so that you need less tanks to fight tanks. EDIT: Also, obviously, certain things such as stacked hardeners and blaster range need to be looked at. I disagree, you want more tanks to fight tanks, BUT you need other methods. If you need to you can use AV, but a tank has better suitability and impacts less on your squad makeup. Thus it is more beneficial but not necessary. Tanks need to remain cheap, enough that there will always be tanks activem not a 2min scrap at the begiining followed by 1 side dominating the rest of the match. This is meant to be all out war. The thing is a lot of people believe a tank should last you a couple of matches. I thourghly disagree, I believe a couple of mlt tanks should last you a match. A well fitted HAV at around 110k means you can be blown up twice then survive to make money. Which is plenty fair. The problem with tanks at the moment is the inability for Infantry Units to effectively engage Tanks when required. I'm not talking about alph ering a tank in under 10secs. But you should at least make a tanker retreat EARLIER than usual, upon penalty of death. A std tank with adv Mods should see someone with Proto AV and soil his undies, because that tanker knows that he isn't gonna be able to stick around long with Proto AV on the field. That doesn't mean the AV can kill him, but he will certainly be capable of making the tanker run back to the redline with his tail between his legs. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:26:00 - [24] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Shooty Dangerman wrote: Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need. High prices only makes it so people with unlimited isk are OP, instead of everyone. I have like 500 mil isk, I could run expensive tanks for a VERY long time. I am broke compared to the top 10% in this game. high prices also make it less spamable and make u take a risk. sort of like a titan in EVE not everyone can buy it but it sure is powerful and still can be destroyed by other sources. There is a reason why titans were nerfed pretty hard, because people like you thought the isk amount would prevent spammage. Do you know what happened? BoB just spammed doomsdays leveling entire fleets, and built tones of them. Then the titan got nerfed and the supercarrier became the new FotM. Everyone and their mother got supercarriers as well because they were solopwn mobiles. Supercarriers got nerfed too. I think everyone, including most tankers, want tanks in the game and I like that there are between 4-8 tanks per match. I just don't like how they have no hard counter. 1 player should ALWAYS be counterable by 1 player. This is the basis of balance.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:28:00 - [25] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Here's the problem. Militia tanks/modules, large railguns, and tiericide for modules. Want something in which you'll be nearly unkillable but bring death to infantry with zero investment? Soma. Want something in which you'll be able to take out any vehicle with zero investment? Sica. Want something that can kill vehicles at any range and still be effective against infantry? Railgun tank. Blasters are not the problem. STD tanks are not the problem. Complex modules are not the problem. But everything above is. Bring tiers back! 330k sp to run a madrugar and gunnlogi... might as well be 0.
Rusty Shallows 679	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:29:00 - [26] - Quote lordjanuz wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Tanks are a major force on the battlefield. Be honest, a tank can sway the battlefield alone FAAAAAAAAR more than a single dropsuit can. It forces people to switch to AV, it displaces people, it DESTROYS people, it can take out turrets and other tanks. That kind of force should be expensive. No, that kind of force should have a counter. AV should be that counter. Otherwise you get the situation like now where 1 tank >>>> anything else. AV is an annoyance now, not a counter. But a tank should not be a solo takedown like it was , then infantery was running towards the tank to get there first to kill it, no one was affraid of it, it should take some team effort to kill it. That only works when the HAV also requires same number of people doing teamwork. Otherwise we end up with one option for God-Mode and the other a waste of time. MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3290	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:29:00 - [27] - Quote Why does no one complain when some dude goes 40/0 every single game with his super proto medframe/rifle combo? Lack of content makes stuff broken... Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2056	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:30:00 - [28] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: Tanks prices are the problem. There too good for there cost. Increase prices so when i work to kill one, he can't afford to call in 3 more. Great so when it comes to that match where a tanker with 20MIL SP comes along on their side and has an overpowered tank, not only can I not beat without nearly 8 peopel doggedly following this one guy, I can't even afford to get a tank in to deal with him either brilliant. As it is now, instead you'll pop him, but he'll deploy 50 more. I do it all the time. It doesn't matter how much I die. Usually, a group of MLTs will pop my AP HAV. Then I pull out my AV HAV and pop all of them, redeploy as AP HAV, go on my merry way. My current asset level is still 3m higher than last week including alts and tank stocks. Either way, everyone is screwed, because the price is not the only problem. MLT tanks are also not the only problem in terms of strength; I pop them all day long. A good AV tank can wipe 3-4 MLTs in minutes. Sure, I get killed by them occasionally. I still pop five times more of them than they do of me. I 2HKO Sicas before than can even harden and Somas are a 3HKO with my cheap AV Madrugar. One FW, two MLTs are going around to flank, I catch them at the side, blow them up in a 2v1, continue and pop another on a hill, pop 3 more throughout the match. However, once the Ion Cannons are deployed, you're screwed. Those things shred infantry 200m out along with the majority of HAVs that aren't other Ion Cannons or specially tailored for burst defense and offense. With the sheer power of current tanks, tanks needs to be cheap enough just to shred other tanks, otherwise everyone goes negative because one guy pulled out a Madrugar. The price needs to rise and then, in addition, Swarm Launchers and AV Grenades need to be buffed in damage so that you need less tanks to fight tanks. EDIT: Also, obviously, certain things such as stacked hardeners and blaster range need to be looked at. I disagree, you want more tanks to fight tanks, BUT you need other methods. If you need to you can use AV, but a tank has better suitability and impacts less on your squad makeup. Thus it is more beneficial but not necessary. Tanks need to remain cheap, enough that there will always be tanks activem not a 2min scrap at the begiining followed by 1 side dominating the rest of the match. This is meant to be all out war. The thing is a lot of people believe a tank should last you a couple of matches. I thourghly disagree, I believe a couple of mlt tanks should last you a match. A well fitted HAV at around 110k means you can be blown up twice then survive to make money. Which is plenty fair. The problem with tanks at the moment is the inability for Infantry Units to effectively engage Tanks when required. I'm not talking about alph ering a tank in under 10secs. But you should at least make a tanker retreat EARLIER than usual, upon penalty of death. A std tank with adv Mods should see someone with Proto AV and soil his undies, because that tanker knows that he isn't gonna be able to stick around long with Proto AV on the field. That doesn't mean the AV can kill him, but he will certainly be capable of making the tanker run back to the redline with his tail between his legs. I want less tanks to be required to fight tanks, which is what I wrote at the end of the post. I also want more expensive tanks because the pricing makes no sense. Even with better AV, cheap tanks can still be spammed. There needs to be a dent in the wallet, otherwise popping a tank just means another is deployed immediately after, which has little satisfaction. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 213	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:31:00 - [29] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Shooty Dangerman wrote: Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need. High prices only makes it so people with unlimited isk are OP, instead of everyone. I have like 500 mil isk, I could run expensive tanks for a VERY long time. I am broke compared to the top 10% in this game. high prices also make it less spamable and make u take a risk. sort of like a titan in EVE not everyone can buy it but it sure is powerful and still can be destroyed by other sources. There is a reason why titans were nerfed pretty hard, because people like you thought the isk amount would prevent spammage. Do you know what happened? BoB just spammed doomsdays leveling entire fleets, and built tones of them. Then the titan got nerfed and the supercarrier became the new FotM. Everyone and their mother got supercarriers as well because they were solopwn mobiles. Supercarriers got nerfed too. I think everyone, including most tankers, want tanks in the game and I like that there are between 4-8 tanks per match. I just don't like how they have no hard counter. 1 player should ALWAYS be counterable by 1 player. This is the basis of balance. EDIT: High prices do not make something less spammable, it only makes it so some of the playerbase can spam, not all of it. Like I said, I could spam for a VERY LONG time and I am broke compared to quite a few in this game.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 213	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:32:00 - [30] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Why does no one complain when some dude goes 40/0 every single game with his super proto medframe/rifle combo? Because you can kill him very easily with a free starter fit.

Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2056	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:33:00 - [31] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Shooty Dangerman wrote: Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need. High prices only makes it so people with unlimited isk are OP, instead of everyone. I have like 500 mil isk, I could run expensive tanks for a VERY long time. I am broke compared to the top 10% in this game. high prices also make it less spamable and make u take a risk. sort of like a titan in EVE not everyone can buy it but it sure is powerful and still can be destroyed by other sources. There is a reason why titans were nerfed pretty hard, because people like you thought the isk amount would prevent spammage. Do you know what happened? BoB just spammed doomsdays leveling entire fleets, and built tones of them. Then the titan got nerfed and the supercarrier became the new FotM. Everyone and their mother got supercarriers as well because they were solopwn mobiles. Supercarriers got nerfed too. I think everyone, including most tankers, want tanks in the game and I like that there are between 4-8 tanks per match. I just don't like how they have no hard counter. 1 player should ALWAYS be counterable by 1 player. This is the basis of balance. EDIT: High prices do not make something less spammable, it only makes it so some of the playerbase can spam, not all of it. Like I said, I could spam for a VERY LONG time and I am broke compared to quite a few in this game. It makes it less spammable for the majority of the population. Other changes also need to be made to balance things out. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1404	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:35:00 - [32] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Shooty Dangerman wrote: Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need. High prices only makes it so people with unlimited isk are OP, instead of everyone. I have like 500 mil isk, I could run expensive tanks for a VERY long time. I am broke compared to the top 10% in this game. high prices also make it less spamable and make u take a risk. sort of like a titan in EVE not everyone can buy it but it sure is powerful and still can be destroyed by other sources. There is a reason why titans were nerfed pretty hard, because people like you thought the isk amount would prevent spammage. Do you know what happened? BoB just spammed doomsdays leveling entire fleets, and built tones of them. Then the titan got nerfed and the supercarrier became the new FotM. Everyone and their mother got supercarriers as well because they were solopwn mobiles. Supercarriers got nerfed too. I think everyone, including most tankers, want tanks in the game and I like that there are between 4-8 tanks per match. I just don't like how they have no hard counter. 1 player should ALWAYS be counterable by 1 player. This is the basis of balance. I hate tank spam more than anyone. tht's why u need to increase the price. because no matter what u do to a tank it will kill infantry. u want to know why. because it's a tank. and tanks can be soloed by heavy AV easily. a forge destroys tanks and if u can't kill a tank with one your just bad. Light AV which is meant for Light vehicles - medium vehicles works good at tht. Even light AV does decent damage to tanks. i don't know what all the QQ over swarms is. i got hit by swarms tht did 2.5k damage per volley. obviously swarms are working as intended. a breach forge with damage mods and hitng a crit spot on a tank can one shot it. yes it takes 1 shot to kill a tank with a breach forge. i confirmed it and tested it in a FW. tanks are to cheap as of now. i mean 1 tank cost me 450k isk. with all proto on it. a milita tank cost 80k isk and is just as effective. Litearlly as all active mods are the same. at the very least full proto tanks should be a mil. theres a reason it's called proto you shouldn't be able to afford it every match. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 213	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:35:00 - [33] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: It makes it less spammable for the majority of the population. Other changes also need to be made to balance things out. So your argument is that only some people should have god mode?
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 1011	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:37:00 - [34] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Shooty Dangerman wrote: Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need. High prices only makes it so people with unlimited isk are OP, instead of everyone. I have like 500 mil isk, I could run expensive tanks for a VERY long time. I am broke compared to the top 10% in this game. high prices also make it less spamable and make u take a risk. sort of like a titan in EVE not everyone can buy it but it sure is powerful and still can be destroyed by other sources. There is a reason why titans were nerfed pretty hard, because people like you thought the isk amount would prevent spammage. Do you know what happened? BoB just spammed doomsdays leveling entire fleets, and built tones of them. Then the titan got nerfed and the supercarrier became the new FotM. Everyone and their mother got supercarriers as well because they were solopwn mobiles. Supercarriers got nerfed too. I think everyone, including most tankers, want tanks in the game and I like that there are between 4-8 tanks per match. I just don't like how they have no hard counter. 1 player should ALWAYS be counterable by 1 player. This is the basis of balance. So you're implying that a heavy should always be counterable by 1 player at any given time? Good job, you just ****** up the heavy's role now. What's next? Everyone running around in the same suit because where's the incentive to deviate when what can kill you doesn't matter? A single person in EVE can't kill a titan by themselves. "Oh but you're not limited to player count." Don't give me that bullshit. I wish my fleet could instantly double in size during an engagement. But you can't do that. You have to fight with what you have brought into the field. If your team only has one AVer and the enemy team has multiple tankers. Then sorry, but I think you should be screwed. People need to stop thinking about balance on a 1v1 basis because it's never a fair fight in reality. Think about it, you never go into battle when the fight is fair. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 266	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:39:00 - [35] - Quote If tanks require teamwork to take down, they should require teamwork to drive or survive. As it is, I think a massive speed/mobility nerf will effectively fix tanks vs av(except swarms, they suck bad). Tanks should be tough, but they should be punished for that high health with low speed. Stop this lolnitrous bull crap that allows tankers to escape their own stupidity. When a tank's hardeners go down after a firefight, the enemy should be dead or the tanker should be forced to except the consequences of failing to neutralize the enemy. Tanks should be the lumbering death machines of Dust. Right now their over gunned race cars.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 1012	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:42:00 - [36] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Harpyja wrote: Here's the problem. Militia tanks/modules, large railguns, and tiericide for modules. Want something in which you'll be nearly unkillable but bring death to infantry with zero investment? Soma. Want something in which you'll be able to take out any vehicle with zero investment? Sica. Want something that can kill vehicles at any range and still be effective against infantry? Railgun tank. Blasters are not the problem. STD tanks are not the problem. Complex modules are not the problem. But everything above is. Bring tiers back! 330k sp to run a madrugar and gunnlogi... might as well be 0. I mentioned the tiericide of modules as being a problem. You'd need to spend a lot more SP to become effective. Complex modules should remain as they are, and reduce the attributes on the remaining modules. Complex should be 50% more effective than MLT/STD. Why? Because PRO swarms and forges (and I believe AV grenades as well) deal 50% more damage than their STD versions. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1404	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:43:00 - [37] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: If tanks require teamwork to take down, they should require teamwork to drive or survive. As it is, I think a massive speed/mobility nerf will effectively fix tanks vs av(except swarms, they suck bad). Tanks should be tough, but they should be punished for that high health with low speed. Stop this lolnitrous bull crap that allows tankers to escape their own stupidity. When a tank's hardeners go down after a firefight, the enemy should be dead or the tanker should be forced to except the consequences of failing to neutralize the enemy. Tanks should be the lumbering death machines of Dust. Right now their over gunned race cars. a heavy AV weapon can solo a tank. light AV requires more than one because it is light. what's the point of light AV if it is just as strong or stronger than heavy AV. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 213	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:43:00 - [38] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Shooty Dangerman wrote: Tank prices should be doubled across the board. The fact that you can call in two militia tanks per ambush, lose both of them, and still break even, is the main reason for tank spam. The duration of all hardeners should be halved. Force the pilots to use them sparingly and strategically instead of turning them on whenever they take an ounce of damage. Both these changes would also force tanks to retreat more often making harassing AV a more effective role. Coming from an AV guy, these are the only two changes tanks really need. High prices only makes it so people with unlimited isk are OP, instead of everyone. I have like 500 mil isk, I could run expensive tanks for a VERY long time. I am broke compared to the top 10% in this game. high prices also make it less spamable and make u take a risk. sort of like a titan in EVE not everyone can buy it but it sure is powerful and still can be destroyed by other sources. There is a reason why titans were nerfed pretty hard, because people like you thought the isk amount would prevent spammage. Do you know what happened? BoB just spammed doomsdays leveling entire fleets, and built tones of them. Then the titan got nerfed and the supercarrier became the new FotM. Everyone and their mother got supercarriers as well because they were solopwn mobiles. Supercarriers got nerfed too. I think everyone, including most tankers, want tanks in the game and I like that there are between 4-8 tanks per match. I just don't like how they have no hard counter. 1 player should ALWAYS be counterable by 1 player. This is the basis of balance. I hate tank spam more than anyone. tht's why u need to increase the price. because no matter what u do to a tank it will kill infantry. u want to know why. because it's a tank. and tanks can be soloed by heavy AV easily. a forge destroys tanks and if u can't kill a tank with one your just bad. Light AV which is meant for Light vehicles - medium vehicles works good at tht. Even light AV does decent damage to tanks. i don't know what all the QQ over swarms is. i got hit by swarms tht did 2.5k damage per volley. obviously swarms are working as intended. a breach forge with damage mods and hitng a crit spot on a tank can one shot it. yes it takes 1 shot to kill a tank with a breach forge. i confirmed it and tested it in a FW. tanks are to cheap as of now. i mean 1 tank cost me 450k isk. with all proto on it. a milita tank cost 80k isk and is just as effective. Litearlly as all active mods are the same. at the very least full proto tanks should be a mil. theres a reason it's called proto you shouldn't be able to afford it every match. So much BS... I don't know where to start. A tank should kill tons of infantry while being immune to infantry because it is a tank is circular reasoning. Forges do not easily solo tanks, if you can prove otherwise there is a post on here offering you 50 mil isk (requires video proof). Light AV is not a distinction made by developers, and never has been. Max swarm damage with prof 5 and 2 dmg mods is 313 dmg per missile, max of 6 missiles. Thats does not work out to 2500 damage, is is 1882 damage. 3 damage mods is 1976 dmg. (thats 576 dmg to shields with 1 hardener on or 1477 dmg to armor with 1 hardner on) The proto breach forge gun with max dmg (prof 5 and 2 dmg mods) does 2994 dmg, about 55% of the HP of a tank. There is no way in the world you can 1 shot any tank with a breach FG. This is before innate resistances or hardners. ISK doesn't work for balancing, ask eve or CCP. Is there anything else you want to be wrong about or just plain lie about?
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2056	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:44:00 - [39] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: It makes it less spammable for the majority of the population. Other changes also need to be made to balance things out. So your argument is that only some people should have god mode? ISK needs to be part of the solution. You are using a strawman argument to defend keeping prices low. Yes, there are some players that can still afford spamming more expensive vehicles. Let me extend the line for you. Tanks are now all free and fully fitted, placed in every player's fittings. Has spam improved? Just because some players can afford to do it anyway doesn't mean everyone should be able to spam them. No ****. There are players with enough money to spam anything. There will always be some aspects of Dust that are pay to win. If prototype gear was free, you'd say it shouldn't be made expensive because there would still be players spamming it. If you don't like the resource management in Dust 514, then it's not the game for you, plain and simple. Some degree of accessibility needs to be removed, because the ultimate accessibility is free which leads to endless spam with no repercussions for ANYONE. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1404	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:50:00 - [40] - Quote U CAN ONE SHOT A TANK WITH A PROTO BREACH FORGE. I HAVE TESTED IT. I have never lied and i won't start now. i had my friend with a proto breach forge gun shoot my weak spot no hards on a soma 4 k armor 1.2k shields. i let him hit my weak spot and i died in one HIT. you want to know how i know it was one hit because after he hit me once i died and he got kicked from FW. and i have been hit by swarms to do tht damage. THT's why they are called CRITICAL spots on tanks.and damage bonuses to armor and such and i kill tanks with my forge solo all the time. want proof just squad with me and i will show you how easy it is. it takes 3-4 shots to kill a tank with an isokone forge gun. 1 with a breach when hiting a crit spot, because of 160 % damage boost plus another 10% from extra damage to armor. 3 k damage with a 170% damage boost does one shot a tank. theres ur math. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.

Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 213	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:50:00 - [41] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: It makes it less spammable for the majority of the population. Other changes also need to be made to balance things out. So your argument is that only some people should have god mode? ISK needs to be part of the solution. You are using a strawman argument to defend keeping prices low. Yes, there are some players that can still afford spamming more expensive vehicles. Let me extend the line for you. Tanks are now all free and fully fitted, placed in every player's fittings. Has spam improved? Just because some players can afford to do it anyway doesn't mean everyone should be able to spam them. No ****. There are players with enough money to spam anything. There will always be some aspects of Dust that are pay to win. If prototype gear was free, you'd say it shouldn't be made expensive because there would still be players spamming it. If you don't like the resource management in Dust 514, then it's not the game for you, plain and simple. Some degree of accessibility needs to be removed, because the ultimate accessibility is free which leads to endless spam with no repercussions for ANYONE. I paraphrased your argument, I did not set up a strawman. You argument is that by increasing the cost it is ok to have god-mode tanks. My argument that no matter the cost of something, no one should have god mode. CCP tried your way of doing things with titans and suppercarriers in eve, they learned this does not work. They have since stopped doing that. Do you know why they stopped doing that? Because it doesn't work.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2056	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:52:00 - [42] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: It makes it less spammable for the majority of the population. Other changes also need to be made to balance things out. So your argument is that only some people should have god mode? ISK needs to be part of the solution. You are using a strawman argument to defend keeping prices low. Yes, there are some players that can still afford spamming more expensive vehicles. Let me extend the line for you. Tanks are now all free and fully fitted, placed in every player's fittings. Has spam improved? Just because some players can afford to do it anyway doesn't mean everyone should be able to spam them. No ****. There are players with enough money to spam anything. There will always be some aspects of Dust that are pay to win. If prototype gear was free, you'd say it shouldn't be made expensive because there would still be players spamming it. If you don't like the resource management in Dust 514, then it's not the game for you, plain and simple. Some degree of accessibility needs to be removed, because the ultimate accessibility is free which leads to endless spam with no repercussions for ANYONE. I paraphrased your argument, I did not set up a strawman. You argument is that by increasing the cost it is ok to have god-mode tanks. My argument that no matter the cost of something, no one should have god mode. CCP tried your way of doing things with titans and suppercarriers in eve, they learned this does not work. They have since stopped doing that. Do you know why they stopped doing that? Because it doesn't work. There were two lines to my post. One was to increase prices, the other was to make other balancing changes. Apparently, you paraphrased a single line. It is not OK to have god-mode tanks. They should be less effective while also costing a bit more. I can more easily run a profit in MLT HAVs than on the ground in ADV gear and that it really, really stupid. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Eurydice Itzhak Providence Guard Templis CALSF 284	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:52:00 - [43] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tanks should require multiple av or another tank to counter. Or dropships. Or jets. Or mtacs. But dust is a bad game. If 1 infantry can solo tanks what is the point of a tank? You gain killing power and lose the ability to fight in cities and cap points. It's a trade off. The only way that would be even remotely acceptable (gameplay wise) is if tanks had an incredibly hard time killing infantry. You sacrifice hacking (not really, you can always hop out for a second) and city mobility (about 5% of all maps in dust) for invulnerability to over half of the weapons in the game, the ability to solo without any teamwork, and to take out entire squads in mere seconds. The AV'er sacrifices effectiveness against infantry for effectiveness against vehicles, only not really.Not only is a solo AV'er not very effective against vehicles, it is not effective against infantry either. Here let me ask you a question: If ANY tank in the game can kill mountains of infantry.... what is the point of infantry? (need to hack hop out for 5 seconds then resume god mode) If one AV'er is ineffective, what is the point of being an AV'er? What is pc compromised of? Uplink spam to force power on points. When tanks were soloable you saw one tank per pc match and everyone just ignored it. Now? You'll see two tanks each side. On for killing infantry and one for killing enemy tanks. Uplink spam is still king. Infantry still win games.
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 266	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:53:00 - [44] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: If tanks require teamwork to take down, they should require teamwork to drive or survive. As it is, I think a massive speed/mobility nerf will effectively fix tanks vs av(except swarms, they suck bad). Tanks should be tough, but they should be punished for that high health with low speed. Stop this lolnitrous bull crap that allows tankers to escape their own stupidity. When a tank's hardeners go down after a firefight, the enemy should be dead or the tanker should be forced to except the consequences of failing to neutralize the enemy. Tanks should be the lumbering death machines of Dust. Right now their over gunned race cars. a heavy AV weapon can solo a tank. light AV requires more than one because it is light. what's the point of light AV if it is just as strong or stronger than heavy AV. You may be the only person denying the under powered nature of swarms. They lost damage AND range. Also this Light weapon BS is a rumor created and perpetuated by the playerbase(tankers actually). Not the developers. Finally, you really quoted my post to talk about a small parenthesis I added about a neutered weapon? I don't use the swarm. I don't have a single point in them, but I can at least acknowledge they suck right now.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1404	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:55:00 - [45] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: If tanks require teamwork to take down, they should require teamwork to drive or survive. As it is, I think a massive speed/mobility nerf will effectively fix tanks vs av(except swarms, they suck bad). Tanks should be tough, but they should be punished for that high health with low speed. Stop this lolnitrous bull crap that allows tankers to escape their own stupidity. When a tank's hardeners go down after a firefight, the enemy should be dead or the tanker should be forced to except the consequences of failing to neutralize the enemy. Tanks should be the lumbering death machines of Dust. Right now their over gunned race cars. a heavy AV weapon can solo a tank. light AV requires more than one because it is light. what's the point of light AV if it is just as strong or stronger than heavy AV. You may be the only person denying the under powered nature of swarms. They lost damage AND range. Also this Light weapon BS is a rumor created and perpetuated by the playerbase(tankers actually). Not the developers. Finally, you really quoted my post to talk about a small parenthesis I added about a neutered weapon? I don't use the swarm. I don't have a single point in them, but I can at least acknowledge they suck right now. i know the nerf and before they were raping me. they needed one. now whether u believe the swarms did 2.5 k damage to me or not is a different story. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 214	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:01:00 - [46] - Quote Right now, as it is I believe dropships/AV balance is perfect. They do not go down instantly, but you can take them down. They are not god-mode against infantry either. Basically if they removed/changed the blaster turrets on tanks so that they are about 1/10th as effective against infatry, I would probably not be abywhere near as pissed off.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2056	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:02:00 - [47] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: If tanks require teamwork to take down, they should require teamwork to drive or survive. As it is, I think a massive speed/mobility nerf will effectively fix tanks vs av(except swarms, they suck bad). Tanks should be tough, but they should be punished for that high health with low speed. Stop this lolnitrous bull crap that allows tankers to escape their own stupidity. When a tank's hardeners go down after a firefight, the enemy should be dead or the tanker should be forced to except the consequences of failing to neutralize the enemy. Tanks should be the lumbering death machines of Dust. Right now their over gunned race cars. a heavy AV weapon can solo a tank. light AV requires more than one because it is light. what's the point of light AV if it is just as strong or stronger than heavy AV. You may be the only person denying the under powered nature of swarms. They lost damage AND range. Also this Light weapon BS is a rumor created and perpetuated by the playerbase(tankers actually). Not the developers. Finally, you really quoted my post to talk about a small parenthesis I added about a neutered weapon? I don't use the swarm. I don't have a single point in them, but I can at least acknowledge they suck right now. i know the nerf and before they were raping me. they needed one. now whether u believe the swarms did 2.5 k damage to me or not is a different story. Swarms with 3-4 complex modifiers, proficiency 5 against armor can do about that much. The majority of the player base is stuck in shitfits doing half of that, though, plus shield tanks can still tank through proto swarms easily enough. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS Zero-Day 2212	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:06:00 - [48] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: CCP LogiBro wrote: Tanks still feel too strong in 1.7 and AV is not strong enough to stop them - Thread \| Thread WeGÇÖll need to do something about MLT tanks. We will see to rebalance some PG/CPU for equipment and more. More details will come in a dev blog/forum post. This is just wrong. Standard tanks are already MUCH better than militia. This idea that the"problem" is just with militia tanks is not correct. OH and to go from militia tanks to standard tanks cost what, 100k sp? The problem is the av balance with tanks. STD is only 1 more slot and and a miniscule amount more pg/cpu than MLT and you callz it "MUCH" better Try A Sica... Then A Gunlogi bud. ¶GûàcGùÅGûäGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê\|\|GûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûàGûà\|\|Gûê~ ~:~:~ :~:GûêGû¦ GûäGûêGûê this tank approve GûêGûêGûàGûäGûâGûé GùÑGÿ+Gû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖ*-UJELLY?*
Rusty Shallows 680	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:12:00 - [49] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: If tanks require teamwork to take down, they should require teamwork to drive or survive. As it is, I think a massive speed/mobility nerf will effectively fix tanks vs av(except swarms, they suck bad). Tanks should be tough, but they should be punished for that high health with low speed. Stop this lolnitrous bull crap that allows tankers to escape their own stupidity. When a tank's hardeners go down after a firefight, the enemy should be dead or the tanker should be forced to except the consequences of failing to neutralize the enemy. Tanks should be the lumbering death machines of Dust. Right now their over gunned race cars. a heavy AV weapon can solo a tank. light AV requires more than one because it is light. what's the point of light AV if it is just as strong or stronger than heavy AV. Theory and practice are two different things. Successfully pulling something off on a novice doesn't set a standard either. If you want an advantage there has to be some kind of balancing factor for it. SP and ISK have been ruled out, as evident from late Chromosome. So either buff the wolves, nerf the tank, or balance out how the game dynamics work. Something has to be done or this game is screwed. MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2056	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:16:00 - [50] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: CCP LogiBro wrote: Tanks still feel too strong in 1.7 and AV is not strong enough to stop them - Thread \| Thread WeGÇÖll need to do something about MLT tanks. We will see to rebalance some PG/CPU for equipment and more. More details will come in a dev blog/forum post. This is just wrong. Standard tanks are already MUCH better than militia. This idea that the"problem" is just with militia tanks is not correct. OH and to go from militia tanks to standard tanks cost what, 100k sp? The problem is the av balance with tanks. STD is only 1 more slot and and a miniscule amount more pg/cpu than MLT and you callz it "MUCH" better Try A Sica... Then A Gunlogi bud. Somas are more balanced. The 2 slots means they need 1 repper, thus have 1 slot left. If this is a hardener, their reps are too low so you can pop them even through hardeners easily enough. If they have 2 reppers, anything but light AV will shred them. Madrugars don't have enough additional CPU/PG over Somas, though, to make full use of that additional slot. Somas have enough CPU to fit a rail, amp, hardener, repper and nitrous no problem, which is nutty. Sicas are touchier. That 3rd slot, if put towards a hardener or boosters, has definite advantages. It's harder to gauge because 2 slots is enough to gain enormous burst defense of offense for a short period of time, plus the native reps mean that a slot doesn't need to be wasted on that. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.

BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1404	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:18:00 - [51] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: If tanks require teamwork to take down, they should require teamwork to drive or survive. As it is, I think a massive speed/mobility nerf will effectively fix tanks vs av(except swarms, they suck bad). Tanks should be tough, but they should be punished for that high health with low speed. Stop this lolnitrous bull crap that allows tankers to escape their own stupidity. When a tank's hardeners go down after a firefight, the enemy should be dead or the tanker should be forced to except the consequences of failing to neutralize the enemy. Tanks should be the lumbering death machines of Dust. Right now their over gunned race cars. a heavy AV weapon can solo a tank. light AV requires more than one because it is light. what's the point of light AV if it is just as strong or stronger than heavy AV. Theory and practice are two different things. Successfully pulling something off on a novice doesn't set a standard either. If you want an advantage there has to be some kind of balancing factor for it. SP and ISK have been ruled out, as evident from late Chromosome. So either buff the wolves, nerf the tank, or balance out how the game dynamics work. Something has to be done or this game is screwed. excuse me but if someone is a master at something even with infantry it normally takes more than one person to kill him no? if i brought and elite AR user in here do you think u could Solo him? no so then it would require more than one, which makes by default his gear he's using OP too right? no.... just no. skill does not balance and i've learned this through the years. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2056	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:19:00 - [52] - Quote Also, as for being "much" better, what can you expect for a 50k increase in cost? Most of the price of the tank comes from the turret. If you use low level turrets like me, you can build some very cheap STD tanks. When someone's STD tank costs 500k it's because they fitted a proto turret, not because they used a STD hull. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1449	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:30:00 - [53] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: If tanks require teamwork to take down, they should require teamwork to drive or survive. As it is, I think a massive speed/mobility nerf will effectively fix tanks vs av(except swarms, they suck bad). Tanks should be tough, but they should be punished for that high health with low speed. Stop this lolnitrous bull crap that allows tankers to escape their own stupidity. When a tank's hardeners go down after a firefight, the enemy should be dead or the tanker should be forced to except the consequences of failing to neutralize the enemy. Tanks should be the lumbering death machines of Dust. Right now their over gunned race cars. a heavy AV weapon can solo a tank. light AV requires more than one because it is light. what's the point of light AV if it is just as strong or stronger than heavy AV. Theory and practice are two different things. Successfully pulling something off on a novice doesn't set a standard either. If you want an advantage there has to be some kind of balancing factor for it. SP and ISK have been ruled out, as evident from late Chromosome. So either buff the wolves, nerf the tank, or balance out how the game dynamics work. Something has to be done or this game is screwed. excuse me but if someone is a master at something even with infantry it normally takes more than one person to kill him no? if i brought and elite AR user in here do you think u could Solo him? no so then it would require more than one, which makes by default his gear he's using OP too right? no.... just no. skill does not balance and i've learned this through the years. If I got your elite AR user down a stair well, he would die to my mass driver and flux 85% of the time, s kill doss not determine how good you are in your comfort zone it determines how well you do out of it. What would be OP is if the only way I could kill him was to either swamp him, or use what he is using. Hence Tanks. Also do you not think an AV weapon would designated a ALV weapon. A light AV weapon doesn't mean its an AV weapon only useful on Light Vehicles, it means it is an AV weapon that is considered more portable than its heavier counterpart. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1


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