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The art of AV was lost after Chrome

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CharCharOdell 1768	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:56:00 - [1] - Quote Tanks were actually harder to kill in chrome. Tanks would cycle 2-3 hardeners and a booster. There was no period of weakness. It took teams of AV working together to kill a tank and those who knew what they were doing, did it regularly. I remember being in a 2.25mil tank chasing down a helpless grunt...into an ambush. All around me F-45s, proximines, swarms, and forges started ripping my 20,000 ehp tank to shreds. I had all my hardness on and got away with 500 armor. I thought I was safe, then a yolo nade hit me and I lost 2.25mil. AV understood that tankers who know their art follow a set doctrine developed over time. By understanding their prey, they could exploit its weakness. I'm starting to see people do this now. Yesterday, I was killed by two people. One with a mlt swarm and the other with a wiki swarm. The mlt guy shot me and I activated my hardeners. When my hardeners cut off, the proto swarm killed my in 0.6 seconds with two volleys from 50m because he knew I couldn't run away at that range. It was beautiful, honestly. I did my best and he knew what I would do, so he won. It was tactics on both of our sides. People need to learn how to read the battlefield. Tanks are easier to kill than ever, but one must wait for their hardeners to shut down. It's really that simple. Stop the QQ and adapt just like the true tankers did every patch. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9177	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:59:00 - [2] - Quote Why weren't you running before your hardener was down? MUDFLAPS says it best: Good tankers never ever stop moving. Vids / O7
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1253	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:00:00 - [3] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Why weren't you running before your hardener was down? MUDFLAPS says it best: Good tankers never ever stop moving. Its true, staying in one spot gives the enemy time to set up an attack. Keep moving and vary movement patterns. It's the reason I get the jump on nearly 90% of my Tank vs Tank battles. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
CharCharOdell 1769	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:04:00 - [4] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Why weren't you running before your hardener was down? MUDFLAPS says it best: Good tankers never ever stop moving. Because I saw red. Red must be dead. Don't lie and say you never chased a tank into the redline to kill it. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 223	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:20:00 - [5] - Quote I like sticking REs on tanks, watching them go "oh squid," turn their hardeners on while trying to kill my scout, and then just give up. Then, i detonate. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 877	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:26:00 - [6] - Quote Every time you explain the lengths that infantry goes through to kill your tank, while infantry know how easily your tank kills them, you undermine your own position. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
CharCharOdell 1776	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:29:00 - [7] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Every time you explain the lengths that infantry goes through to kill your tank, while infantry know how easily your tank kills them, you undermine your own position. I put 10+ mil in my tank. It better stomp. But these mlt tanks are too good for being 0 sp and 80k isk Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2286	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:32:00 - [8] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Every time you explain the lengths that infantry goes through to kill your tank, while infantry know how easily your tank kills them, you undermine your own position. I put 10+ mil in my tank. It better stomp. But these mlt tanks are too good for being 0 sp and 80k isk I put 4-6+ mil into AV. Should I "stomp" Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2286	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:34:00 - [9] - Quote So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 337	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:38:00 - [10] - Quote If it takes having 9-12 seconds of unobstructed LOS to Kill you if your hardeners are already down and you don't have reppers, how is that balanced? Generally good tank fits require me to reload my tier 4 prof 4 double complex modded AFG to kill them with hardeners down, and with hardeners up it is futile to even attack at all. I don't know, maybe easy for us has different meanings. It's easy for you to kill infantry, AV in under two seconds, or one direct rail hit. You can attack infantry and installations and even jump on other tanks without modules active. I have to wait for your weak period (If you have one and aren't running 2-3 hardeners) and take upwards of 6 times as long to kill you as it takes you to kill me. And I can't flee at near LAV speeds at low health. Dunno, I am not crying major nerf or tanks are god mode, but it certainly is not balanced.

R F Gyro Clones 4u 880	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:39:00 - [11] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Every time you explain the lengths that infantry goes through to kill your tank, while infantry know how easily your tank kills them, you undermine your own position. I put 10+ mil in my tank. It better stomp. But these mlt tanks are too good for being 0 sp and 80k isk So should fight between you and an AV player with 10+ mill SP be an even match then? Its not just milita tanks that are too powerful. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1125	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:47:00 - [12] - Quote The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2291	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:51:00 - [13] - Quote 8213 wrote: The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7 There was an art? Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1127	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:54:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: 8213 wrote: The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7 There was an art? Yes actually. Good tankers really did exist. It took investment and gameskill... now my grandma can do it...
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 316	Posted - 2013.12.19 22:00:00 - [15] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Tanks were actually harder to kill in chrome. Tanks would cycle 2-3 hardeners and a booster. There was no period of weakness. It took teams of AV working together to kill a tank and those who knew what they were doing, did it regularly. I remember being in a 2.25mil tank chasing down a helpless grunt...into an ambush. All around me F-45s, proximines, swarms, and forges started ripping my 20,000 ehp tank to shreds. I had all my hardness on and got away with 500 armor. I thought I was safe, then a yolo nade hit me and I lost 2.25mil. AV understood that tankers who know their art follow a set doctrine developed over time. By understanding their prey, they could exploit its weakness. Post 1.0 and before 1.7, people got used to soloing tanks. It was extremely easy. So much so that all it did was breed the best tankers Dust has ever seen and likely ever will. The weak links have been washed out and all that remains are <20 fierce death machines who, in a duel, are the only people cape able of killing eachother. That aside, tanks seem OP because everyone was used to being able to solo them. Now it isn't possible if the tank is running hardeners and can smash through anything for <1min. Then it's glass. The infantry make the mistake of engaging during the strong periods and thus, seem like the tank is invincible. Even tanks have trouble smashing through nearly 95% resistance that gunlogis get with 2 hardeners. Tankers...the good ones...exploring this by causing their enemy to prematurely activate their hardeners and then lure them into an ambush or per sue them when they're weak. It's very possible for a gunlogi rail to solo a blaster Maddy at <15m this way. Also take into account that tanks charge when they see red because they know that they can win. This is just too easy to exploit. I'm starting to see people do this now. Yesterday, I was killed by two people. One with a mlt swarm and the other with a wiki swarm. The mlt guy shot me and I activated my hardeners. When my hardeners cut off, the proto swarm killed my in 0.6 seconds with two volleys from 50m because he knew I couldn't run away at that range. It was beautiful, honestly. I did my best and he knew what I would do, so he won. It was tactics on both of our sides. People need to learn how to read the battlefield. Tanks are easier to kill than ever, but one must wait for their hardeners to shut down. It's really that simple. Stop the QQ and adapt just like the true tankers did every patch. Oo Yeah some AV have wised up. Even myself, if I'm facing another gunnlogi and am running missiles, will WAIT for the hardener to drop. As soon as that thing drops, they are toast. I like that AV tactic. Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 316	Posted - 2013.12.19 22:02:00 - [16] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: If it takes having 9-12 seconds of unobstructed LOS to Kill you if your hardeners are already down and you don't have reppers, how is that balanced? Generally good tank fits require me to reload my tier 4 prof 4 double complex modded AFG to kill them with hardeners down, and with hardeners up it is futile to even attack at all. I don't know, maybe easy for us has different meanings. It's easy for you to kill infantry, AV in under two seconds, or one direct rail hit. You can attack infantry and installations and even jump on other tanks without modules active. I have to wait for your weak period (If you have one and aren't running 2-3 hardeners) and take upwards of 6 times as long to kill you as it takes you to kill me. And I can't flee at near LAV speeds at low health. Dunno, I am not crying major nerf or tanks are god mode, but it certainly is not balanced. Whatttt?? Forge guns HURT without hardeners. Nuff Said
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 118	Posted - 2013.12.19 22:08:00 - [17] - Quote I enjoyed reading your story....kinda breaks my heart though MmMmMm TanKs....delicious TanKs
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2587	Posted - 2013.12.19 22:08:00 - [18] - Quote Of course there are skilled and unskilled tankers just as there are skilled and unskilled infantry. New drivers make plenty of mistakes and lose their rides as a result. A skilled driver in a MLT can outplay an unskilled in a STD just as can occur with suits. I'm just learning myself, and it takes time to gain the skill. Reading the forums helps, but there's no substitute for tracks on the ground.
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 118	Posted - 2013.12.19 22:11:00 - [19] - Quote Skihids wrote: Of course there are skilled and unskilled tankers just as there are skilled and unskilled infantry. New drivers make plenty of mistakes and lose their rides as a result. A skilled driver in a MLT can outplay an unskilled in a STD just as can occur with suits. I'm just learning myself, and it takes time to gain the skill. Reading the forums helps, but there's no substitute for tracks on the ground. well said sir. MmMmMm TanKs....delicious TanKs
CharCharOdell 1797	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:34:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? so you're going back on what you said prior to 1.7? Apparently you were fine with AV not needing teamwork and now that tanks do well on their own, they're OP...but AV wasn't. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition

CharCharOdell 1800	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:37:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: 8213 wrote: The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7 There was an art? Yes. Maybe you weren't around for it, but in Chrome, there were only 20 tankers in the game who could do the whole 50:0 thing ppl QQd about so much. it was hard to do it. You had to know everything at once and most of us had guys in our tank watching the map so we could never get ambushed. The balance was perfect. Now, tanking is too easy and I don't like it. AV buff isn't the answer, but a mlt tank nerf in one form or another would help. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó I like railguns.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1695	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:43:00 - [22] - Quote I rail them with or without hardener (no sexual innuendo intended) Going to stay out of AV/V debates, better for my sanity. GÿåTank driverGÿå
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 925	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:51:00 - [23] - Quote 8213 wrote: Atiim wrote: 8213 wrote: The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7 There was an art? Yes actually. Good tankers really did exist. It took investment and gameskill... now my grandma can do it... ^^^ I was running a Falchion with a fusion accelerator before 1.7 dropped. I'd just bounce between objectives, staying no more than half a minute at any single objective. I was even able to take out some Madrugars by speeding around to flank them from behind with proto missiles. My largest cause of death was actually from OBs because I'd sit at an objective for too long killing infantry as they continued to spawn. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2295	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:52:00 - [24] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? so you're going back on what you said prior to 1.7? Apparently you were fine with AV not needing teamwork and now that tanks do well on their own, they're OP...but AV wasn't. As expected. Vehicles are OP simply because they require teamwork to destroy, yet require no teamwork to operate whatsoever. I was perfectly fine with AV not needing teamwork because HAVs also didn't need teamwork either. Going back on what I said? How? What I said was "AV shouldn't be required to use teamwork because HAVs aren't". Heck, I even made a thread about why it's a bad idea. I also said that if AV should require teamwork, then HAVs should as well. Which is far from what we have as of current. Please tell me Char. Why should AV be forced to use teamwork, when HAVs aren't? Why should I be able to hop into a tank as a single unit and require 3-6 people to destroy me? Why should 1>3? Please also refrain from spew BS about vehicles requiring teamwork. As with me spending 7 months piloting tanks and having an end total of around 7mil invested (pre 1.7), you cannot tell me that they require teamwork, as they clearly don't. But I'd love to see you try.... I'd even pay AUR for the delight. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
DeadlyAztec11 2834	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:55:00 - [25] - Quote I was AV all the time in Chromosome. Though, it was A LOT easier back then. No scanners, tanks were easy to sneak up on and you rarely fought any infantry above standard, forget about Proto. AV is just harder now, you have to usually run a well coordinated squad; two AV guys, two Assaults and two Logi's. That's the Dust Dream squad. »We still have our honor!
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 925	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:55:00 - [26] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Atiim wrote: 8213 wrote: The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7 There was an art? Yes. Maybe you weren't around for it, but in Chrome, there were only 20 tankers in the game who could do the whole 50:0 thing ppl QQd about so much. it was hard to do it. You had to know everything at once and most of us had guys in our tank watching the map so we could never get ambushed. The balance was perfect. Now, tanking is too easy and I don't like it. AV buff isn't the answer, but a mlt tank nerf in one form or another would help. Yeah, I still remember that one time I spotted a blaster Madrugar from across half the map attempting to swing around from behind my ground spawn on Manus Peak while I was railgunning from the hills. I asked my gunner to watch the tactical map for the tank and report its position. With his help, I got the jump on the Madrugar, he ended up on top of me (literally) and my railgun fired into his underside while he couldn't even hit me because he was on top of me. My gunner was closing the tactical map and when he returned, all he saw was a tank on top of us that was exploding "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
CharCharOdell 1800	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:57:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? so you're going back on what you said prior to 1.7? Apparently you were fine with AV not needing teamwork and now that tanks do well on their own, they're OP...but AV wasn't. As expected. Vehicles are OP simply because they require teamwork to destroy, yet require no teamwork to operate whatsoever. I was perfectly fine with AV not needing teamwork because HAVs also didn't need teamwork either. Going back on what I said? How? What I said was "AV shouldn't be required to use teamwork because HAVs aren't". Heck, I even made a thread about why it's a bad idea. I also said that if AV should require teamwork, then HAVs should as well. Which is far from what we have as of current. Please tell me Char. Why should AV be forced to use teamwork, when HAVs aren't? Why should I be able to hop into a tank as a single unit and require 3-6 people to destroy me? Why should 1>3? Please also refrain from spew BS about vehicles requiring teamwork. As with me spending 7 months piloting tanks and having an end total of around 7mil invested (pre 1.7), you cannot tell me that they require teamwork, as they clearly don't. But I'd love to see you try.... I'd even pay AUR for the delight. You don't tank, obviously. Also, I always run with a team. Most tanks do. 1 tank isn't an easy target...unless it's me ;) Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó I like railguns.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 925	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:02:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? so you're going back on what you said prior to 1.7? Apparently you were fine with AV not needing teamwork and now that tanks do well on their own, they're OP...but AV wasn't. As expected. Vehicles are OP simply because they require teamwork to destroy, yet require no teamwork to operate whatsoever. I was perfectly fine with AV not needing teamwork because HAVs also didn't need teamwork either. Going back on what I said? How? What I said was "AV shouldn't be required to use teamwork because HAVs aren't". Heck, I even made a thread about why it's a bad idea. I also said that if AV should require teamwork, then HAVs should as well. Which is far from what we have as of current. Please tell me Char. Why should AV be forced to use teamwork, when HAVs aren't? Why should I be able to hop into a tank as a single unit and require 3-6 people to destroy me? Why should 1>3? Please also refrain from spew BS about vehicles requiring teamwork. As with me spending 7 months piloting tanks and having an end total of around 7mil invested (pre 1.7), you cannot tell me that they require teamwork, as they clearly don't. But I'd love to see you try.... I'd even pay AUR for the delight. See my above post. Sure, we can run solo, but so can the common infantryman. But of course, we like to use teamwork to make us better off. So does the common infantryman when they team up with a heavy, a logi, and an assault. You are stubborn when you keep failing to realize the good tankers use teamwork. I will always have at least one small turret on my tank for a squad member, or even a blueberry, because it helps with anti-infantry duties. Sure some blueberries are annoying, but I've recently only been coming across decent gunners. I always prefer to be in a squad, and I always rely on them to give me enemy positions. I've taken out many vehicles because I had my squad members point out their position and movement so I could get the jump on them from behind. I've even had cases where I knew I was going to lose a battle against a Madrugar if it was only me, but I had the squad commander drop an OB on the Madrugar while we were engaged. I was basically using myself as a lure to bait the Madrugar into a trap. In fact, I was an expensive lure because I was with my Falchion, so of course he'd bite, only to get barraged by proto missiles and bombarded from orbit. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 728	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:04:00 - [29] - Quote militia tanks need to be made a bit weaker so those who skill into them feel they are getting something out of their SP investment. I think tanks are OK now, need more time to confirm or QQ *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
CharCharOdell 1802	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:10:00 - [30] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: militia tanks need to be made a bit weaker so those who skill into them feel they are getting something out of their SP investment. I think tanks are OK now, need more time to confirm or QQ me feelings, exactly. if the problem doesnt solve itself in 2 months, id say a tank nerf or av buff is in order. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó I like railguns.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 513	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:12:00 - [31] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Tanks were actually harder to kill in chrome. Tanks would cycle 2-3 hardeners and a booster. There was no period of weakness. It took teams of AV working together to kill a tank and those who knew what they were doing, did it regularly. I remember being in a 2.25mil tank chasing down a helpless grunt...into an ambush. All around me F-45s, proximines, swarms, and forges started ripping my 20,000 ehp tank to shreds. I had all my hardness on and got away with 500 armor. I thought I was safe, then a yolo nade hit me and I lost 2.25mil. AV understood that tankers who know their art follow a set doctrine developed over time. By understanding their prey, they could exploit its weakness. Post 1.0 and before 1.7, people got used to soloing tanks. It was extremely easy. So much so that all it did was breed the best tankers Dust has ever seen and likely ever will. The weak links have been washed out and all that remains are <20 fierce death machines who, in a duel, are the only people cape able of killing eachother. That aside, tanks seem OP because everyone was used to being able to solo them. Now it isn't possible if the tank is running hardeners and can smash through anything for <1min. Then it's glass. The infantry make the mistake of engaging during the strong periods and thus, seem like the tank is invincible. Even tanks have trouble smashing through nearly 95% resistance that gunlogis get with 2 hardeners. Tankers...the good ones...exploring this by causing their enemy to prematurely activate their hardeners and then lure them into an ambush or per sue them when they're weak. It's very possible for a gunlogi rail to solo a blaster Maddy at <15m this way. Also take into account that tanks charge when they see red because they know that they can win. This is just too easy to exploit. I'm starting to see people do this now. Yesterday, I was killed by two people. One with a mlt swarm and the other with a wiki swarm. The mlt guy shot me and I activated my hardeners. When my hardeners cut off, the proto swarm killed my in 0.6 seconds with two volleys from 50m because he knew I couldn't run away at that range. It was beautiful, honestly. I did my best and he knew what I would do, so he won. It was tactics on both of our sides. People need to learn how to read the battlefield. Tanks are easier to kill than ever, but one must wait for their hardeners to shut down. It's really that simple. Stop the QQ and adapt just like the true tankers did every patch. Just need to remove Supply depot's from redlines so the ones on the battlefield stop getting popped... Also a re positioning of the supply depot's so 1 every map is relevant for tanks. Will create contention points... fun? ;_;
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2297	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:18:00 - [32] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: You don't tank, obviously. Also, I always run with a team. Most tanks do. 1 tank isn't an easy target...unless it's me ;) Funny, and yet still expected. The last person who said I don't tank (Anmol Singh) ended up having to swallow a bucket of "I told you so" when I squaded up with him. How does a tank require teamwork? I can (and have) done just as well running my tank solo as I have with a squad. Heck, sometimes I I even perform BETTER when I'm running solo. (Then again, I always do better solo) Now tell me. What part of that are you required to do? Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 863	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:23:00 - [33] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Tanks were actually harder to kill in chrome. Tanks would cycle 2-3 hardeners and a booster. There was no period of weakness. It took teams of AV working together to kill a tank and those who knew what they were doing, did it regularly. I remember being in a 2.25mil tank chasing down a helpless grunt...into an ambush. All around me F-45s, proximines, swarms, and forges started ripping my 20,000 ehp tank to shreds. I had all my hardness on and got away with 500 armor. I thought I was safe, then a yolo nade hit me and I lost 2.25mil. AV understood that tankers who know their art follow a set doctrine developed over time. By understanding their prey, they could exploit its weakness. Post 1.0 and before 1.7, people got used to soloing tanks. It was extremely easy. So much so that all it did was breed the best tankers Dust has ever seen and likely ever will. The weak links have been washed out and all that remains are <20 fierce death machines who, in a duel, are the only people cape able of killing eachother. That aside, tanks seem OP because everyone was used to being able to solo them. Now it isn't possible if the tank is running hardeners and can smash through anything for <1min. Then it's glass. The infantry make the mistake of engaging during the strong periods and thus, seem like the tank is invincible. Even tanks have trouble smashing through nearly 95% resistance that gunlogis get with 2 hardeners. Tankers...the good ones...exploring this by causing their enemy to prematurely activate their hardeners and then lure them into an ambush or per sue them when they're weak. It's very possible for a gunlogi rail to solo a blaster Maddy at <15m this way. Also take into account that tanks charge when they see red because they know that they can win. This is just too easy to exploit. I'm starting to see people do this now. Yesterday, I was killed by two people. One with a mlt swarm and the other with a wiki swarm. The mlt guy shot me and I activated my hardeners. When my hardeners cut off, the proto swarm killed my in 0.6 seconds with two volleys from 50m because he knew I couldn't run away at that range. It was beautiful, honestly. I did my best and he knew what I would do, so he won. It was tactics on both of our sides. People need to learn how to read the battlefield. Tanks are easier to kill than ever, but one must wait for their hardeners to shut down. It's really that simple. Stop the QQ and adapt just like the true tankers did every patch. I was playing vs Bad Furry and others in Skirmish yesterday, I tore apart most of the vehicles and infantry (lol that too) with my forge but I died once at the end for not learning how to use cover. Nobody seems to aim at tank's weak spot these days... Uprising 1.7 - TANKDOMINATION!!1!!1! LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2299	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:37:00 - [34] - Quote Harpyja wrote: See my above post. Sure, we can run solo, but so can the common infantryman. But of course, we like to use teamwork to make us better off. So does the common infantryman when they team up with a heavy, a logi, and an assault. You are stubborn when you keep failing to realize the good tankers use teamwork. I will always have at least one small turret on my tank for a squad member, or even a blueberry, because it helps with anti-infantry duties. Sure some blueberries are annoying, but I've recently only been coming across decent gunners. I always prefer to be in a squad, and I always rely on them to give me enemy positions. I've taken out many vehicles because I had my squad members point out their position and movement so I could get the jump on them from behind. I've even had cases where I knew I was going to lose a battle against a Madrugar if it was only me, but I had the squad commander drop an OB on the Madrugar while we were engaged. I was basically using myself as a lure to bait the Madrugar into a trap. In fact, I was an expensive lure because I was with my Falchion, so of course he'd bite, only to get barraged by proto missiles and bombarded from orbit. You like to, but are you required to? No. So should AV be required to? No. Stubborn? How? By calling pilot's BS when they try to BS people about how vehicles (bar Dropships) require teamwork? I believe you are stubborn in the sense that none of that stuff you nor anyone else on this entire forum (since the time of my first post) have ever once even came close to mentioning how any vehicle in this game (bar Dropships) require any form of anything that would even remotely resemble or constitute teamwork in any fashion, condition, shape or form. You still could have destroyed the Madrugar without using your squad's Warbarge Strike. You couldn't have possible ever been 100% certain that you would be destroyed by the Madrugar simply because it is a Madrugar. You have no idea the pilot's fittings, nor ability. Also, since you were using a Falchion, I'm going to assume that you were either using a Railgun or a Missile Turret. Both would have easily given you the edge over that Madrugar. Your cowardice does not count as a reason as to why vehicles require teamwork. Nor does simply deciding to use teamwork. Good tanker? There is no such thing. To be a "good" tanker would imply that tanks require skill beyond the activation of hardners and rotating the joysticks to control the camera and turret. Along with firing R1. Assault Rifles require more skill than tanks. Unless by skill, you are referring to actual Skill Points. In which case, yes I would agree that piloting a tank requires immense amounts of "skill" Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 4196	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:38:00 - [35] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Why weren't you running before your hardener was down? MUDFLAPS says it best: Good tankers never ever stop moving. Because I saw red. Red must be dead. Don't lie and say you never chased a tank into the redline to kill it. a tank chased my python into the redline once, i was having a little duel with a marauder around the center of the map, he managed to grab some elevation and hit me hard, i flew back to my redline to repair and resupply from a supply depot. then all i see is this red tank come hurtling through the redline and into the ground base trying to get a shot at me, needless to say i burned for the sky the moment i saw him. i've seen tankers determined to kill me before, i've never seen a tanker that determined to kill me before. Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
dustwaffle Xer Cloud Consortium 735	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:39:00 - [36] - Quote Adapting tactics to meet challenges arising from shifts in the metagame... Who woulda thought? While 5 tanks on the other team can be annoying, they're not that hard to avoid most times
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2299	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:40:00 - [37] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: I was playing vs Bad Furry and others in Skirmish yesterday, I tore apart most of the vehicles and infantry (lol that too) with my forge but I died once at the end for not learning how to use cover. Nobody seems to aim at tank's weak spot these days... My Swarms always hit the weak-spot of tanks. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5098	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:41:00 - [38] - Quote Atiim wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: I was playing vs Bad Furry and others in Skirmish yesterday, I tore apart most of the vehicles and infantry (lol that too) with my forge but I died once at the end for not learning how to use cover. Nobody seems to aim at tank's weak spot these days... My Swarms always hit the weak-spot of tanks. If they did you wouldn't be bitching..... To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2299	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:42:00 - [39] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: Adapting tactics to meet challenges arising from shifts in the metagame... Who woulda thought? While 5 tanks on the other team can be annoying, they're not that hard to avoid most times There are only two maps in this entire game that allow you to avoid vehicles while still being able to achieve victory. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
dustwaffle Xer Cloud Consortium 735	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:45:00 - [40] - Quote Atiim wrote: dustwaffle wrote: Adapting tactics to meet challenges arising from shifts in the metagame... Who woulda thought? While 5 tanks on the other team can be annoying, they're not that hard to avoid most times There are only two maps in this entire game that allow you to avoid vehicles while still being able to achieve victory. I like how you tell us what those maps are in your post and why the other maps don't allow you to win. I especially like the detailed reasoning you provided.

CharCharOdell 1809	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:47:00 - [41] - Quote Atiim wrote: Harpyja wrote: See my above post. Sure, we can run solo, but so can the common infantryman. But of course, we like to use teamwork to make us better off. So does the common infantryman when they team up with a heavy, a logi, and an assault. You are stubborn when you keep failing to realize the good tankers use teamwork. I will always have at least one small turret on my tank for a squad member, or even a blueberry, because it helps with anti-infantry duties. Sure some blueberries are annoying, but I've recently only been coming across decent gunners. I always prefer to be in a squad, and I always rely on them to give me enemy positions. I've taken out many vehicles because I had my squad members point out their position and movement so I could get the jump on them from behind. I've even had cases where I knew I was going to lose a battle against a Madrugar if it was only me, but I had the squad commander drop an OB on the Madrugar while we were engaged. I was basically using myself as a lure to bait the Madrugar into a trap. In fact, I was an expensive lure because I was with my Falchion, so of course he'd bite, only to get barraged by proto missiles and bombarded from orbit. You like to, but are you required to? No. So should AV be required to? No. Stubborn? How? By calling pilot's BS when they try to BS people about how vehicles (bar Dropships) require teamwork? I believe you are stubborn in the sense that none of that stuff you nor anyone else on this entire forum (since the time of my first post) have ever once even came close to mentioning how any vehicle in this game (bar Dropships) require any form of anything that would even remotely resemble or constitute teamwork in any fashion, condition, shape or form. You still could have destroyed the Madrugar without using your squad's Warbarge Strike. You couldn't have possible ever been 100% certain that you would be destroyed by the Madrugar simply because it is a Madrugar. You have no idea the pilot's fittings, nor ability. Also, since you were using a Falchion, I'm going to assume that you were either using a Railgun or a Missile Turret. Both would have easily given you the edge over that Madrugar. Your cowardice does not count as a reason as to why vehicles require teamwork. Nor does simply deciding to use teamwork. Good tanker? There is no such thing. To be a "good" tanker would imply that tanks require skill beyond the activation of hardners and rotating the joysticks to control the camera and turret. Along with firing R1. Assault Rifles require more skill than tanks. Unless by skill, you are referring to actual Skill Points. In which case, yes I would agree that piloting a tank requires immense amounts of "skill" No such thing as a good tanker? If you, indeed, tank, then I suppose you think you could take me or any real tanker in a 1 v 1, then? I seriously doubt it. You wouldn't stand a chance. 99% of anyone who has ever called in a tank since 1.7 stand no chance against us even in a 4 v 1. A good tanker is something only a good tanker can understand. A good tanker does not care about his KDR. he cares about his pocketbook and if he helped his team. We work with our infantry in support of taking the objective. I play as heavy artillery. Others play as battering rams. Either way, good tankers are something special and we almost went extinct. Good thing there are still some of us left to tell you what is really happening with tanks: MLT tanks are being spammed because they cost too little for how powerful they are and need a serious nerf. If that doesnt solve the problem in 2 months, then a general pg/cpu nerf to tanks is in order. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó I like railguns.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2299	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:47:00 - [42] - Quote True Adamance wrote: If they did you wouldn't be bitching..... Huh? That word isn't censored? Anyways. Not quite considering how my Swarms are about as useful as an Amarr blueberry. Then again, it's not like the only AV most pilots want to see are Sicas with Particle Cannons. Also, I don't think it would be wise for a tanker to call out "btching" when I could compile all of their "btching" and QQ into a thread longer than even the Scout Registry..... Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2299	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:23:00 - [43] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: Atiim wrote: dustwaffle wrote: Adapting tactics to meet challenges arising from shifts in the metagame... Who woulda thought? While 5 tanks on the other team can be annoying, they're not that hard to avoid most times There are only two maps in this entire game that allow you to avoid vehicles while still being able to achieve victory. I like how you tell us what those maps are in your post and why the other maps don't allow you to win. I especially like the detailed reasoning you provided. I will do so later, as I have already gone far in-depth on this multiple times. Plus, my dogs need to be walked right now. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:41:00 - [44] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Tanks were actually harder to kill in chrome. Tanks would cycle 2-3 hardeners and a booster. There was no period of weakness. It took teams of AV working together to kill a tank and those who knew what they were doing, did it regularly. I remember being in a 2.25mil tank chasing down a helpless grunt...into an ambush. All around me F-45s, proximines, swarms, and forges started ripping my 20,000 ehp tank to shreds. I had all my hardness on and got away with 500 armor. I thought I was safe, then a yolo nade hit me and I lost 2.25mil. AV understood that tankers who know their art follow a set doctrine developed over time. By understanding their prey, they could exploit its weakness. Post 1.0 and before 1.7, people got used to soloing tanks. It was extremely easy. So much so that all it did was breed the best tankers Dust has ever seen and likely ever will. The weak links have been washed out and all that remains are <20 fierce death machines who, in a duel, are the only people cape able of killing eachother. That aside, tanks seem OP because everyone was used to being able to solo them. Now it isn't possible if the tank is running hardeners and can smash through anything for <1min. Then it's glass. The infantry make the mistake of engaging during the strong periods and thus, seem like the tank is invincible. Even tanks have trouble smashing through nearly 95% resistance that gunlogis get with 2 hardeners. Tankers...the good ones...exploring this by causing their enemy to prematurely activate their hardeners and then lure them into an ambush or per sue them when they're weak. It's very possible for a gunlogi rail to solo a blaster Maddy at <15m this way. Also take into account that tanks charge when they see red because they know that they can win. This is just too easy to exploit. I'm starting to see people do this now. Yesterday, I was killed by two people. One with a mlt swarm and the other with a wiki swarm. The mlt guy shot me and I activated my hardeners. When my hardeners cut off, the proto swarm killed my in 0.6 seconds with two volleys from 50m because he knew I couldn't run away at that range. It was beautiful, honestly. I did my best and he knew what I would do, so he won. It was tactics on both of our sides. People need to learn how to read the battlefield. Tanks are easier to kill than ever, but one must wait for their hardeners to shut down. It's really that simple. Stop the QQ and adapt just like the true tankers did every patch. NOOOO IT'S NOT FAIR TO HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK!! I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO SOLO WITH MINIMAL EFFORT, RISK AND INVESTMENT!! - said all infantry, ever. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:43:00 - [45] - Quote Atiim wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Every time you explain the lengths that infantry goes through to kill your tank, while infantry know how easily your tank kills them, you undermine your own position. I put 10+ mil in my tank. It better stomp. But these mlt tanks are too good for being 0 sp and 80k isk I put 4-6+ mil into AV. Should I "stomp" You stomped easily before 1.7. Now it's not easy. That sun has set, and tanks are where they should be. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:45:00 - [46] - Quote Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? Infantry didn't have to do anything difficult from when Uprising first dropped, to Dec. 9th. Now you're all complaining that you can't solo tanks anymore. You call yourself a tanker, yet have been on a crusade against the very thing you were skilled into. Have you destroyed any tanks since 1.7 dropped? Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:47:00 - [47] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: If it takes having 9-12 seconds of unobstructed LOS to Kill you if your hardeners are already down and you don't have reppers, how is that balanced? Generally good tank fits require me to reload my tier 4 prof 4 double complex modded AFG to kill them with hardeners down, and with hardeners up it is futile to even attack at all. I don't know, maybe easy for us has different meanings. It's easy for you to kill infantry, AV in under two seconds, or one direct rail hit. You can attack infantry and installations and even jump on other tanks without modules active. I have to wait for your weak period (If you have one and aren't running 2-3 hardeners) and take upwards of 6 times as long to kill you as it takes you to kill me. And I can't flee at near LAV speeds at low health. Dunno, I am not crying major nerf or tanks are god mode, but it certainly is not balanced. It's not balanced because you're thinking of it as a solo task. If you want it to be a solo task, then HTFU, and get a lot better. I haven't needed to touch a forge since 1.7 dropped, because now tanks are so much better at beating the crap out of other tanks, which is how it should be. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:48:00 - [48] - Quote 8213 wrote: The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7 LOL Do you even tank? Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:50:00 - [49] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Tanks were actually harder to kill in chrome. Tanks would cycle 2-3 hardeners and a booster. There was no period of weakness. It took teams of AV working together to kill a tank and those who knew what they were doing, did it regularly. I remember being in a 2.25mil tank chasing down a helpless grunt...into an ambush. All around me F-45s, proximines, swarms, and forges started ripping my 20,000 ehp tank to shreds. I had all my hardness on and got away with 500 armor. I thought I was safe, then a yolo nade hit me and I lost 2.25mil. AV understood that tankers who know their art follow a set doctrine developed over time. By understanding their prey, they could exploit its weakness. Post 1.0 and before 1.7, people got used to soloing tanks. It was extremely easy. So much so that all it did was breed the best tankers Dust has ever seen and likely ever will. The weak links have been washed out and all that remains are <20 fierce death machines who, in a duel, are the only people cape able of killing eachother. That aside, tanks seem OP because everyone was used to being able to solo them. Now it isn't possible if the tank is running hardeners and can smash through anything for <1min. Then it's glass. The infantry make the mistake of engaging during the strong periods and thus, seem like the tank is invincible. Even tanks have trouble smashing through nearly 95% resistance that gunlogis get with 2 hardeners. Tankers...the good ones...exploring this by causing their enemy to prematurely activate their hardeners and then lure them into an ambush or per sue them when they're weak. It's very possible for a gunlogi rail to solo a blaster Maddy at <15m this way. Also take into account that tanks charge when they see red because they know that they can win. This is just too easy to exploit. I'm starting to see people do this now. Yesterday, I was killed by two people. One with a mlt swarm and the other with a wiki swarm. The mlt guy shot me and I activated my hardeners. When my hardeners cut off, the proto swarm killed my in 0.6 seconds with two volleys from 50m because he knew I couldn't run away at that range. It was beautiful, honestly. I did my best and he knew what I would do, so he won. It was tactics on both of our sides. People need to learn how to read the battlefield. Tanks are easier to kill than ever, but one must wait for their hardeners to shut down. It's really that simple. Stop the QQ and adapt just like the true tankers did every patch. Oo Yeah some AV have wised up. Even myself, if I'm facing another gunnlogi and am running missiles, will WAIT for the hardener to drop. As soon as that thing drops, they are toast. I like that AV tactic. I've destroyed a bunch of tanks by waiting out their hardeners. When they start backing up to their redline, the battle is already lost for them. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2304	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:51:00 - [50] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: NOOOO IT'S NOT FAIR TO HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK!! I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO SOLO WITH MINIMAL EFFORT, RISK AND INVESTMENT!! - said all pilots, ever. FTFY Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:52:00 - [51] - Quote Atiim wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? so you're going back on what you said prior to 1.7? Apparently you were fine with AV not needing teamwork and now that tanks do well on their own, they're OP...but AV wasn't. As expected. Vehicles are OP simply because they require teamwork to destroy, yet require no teamwork to operate whatsoever. I was perfectly fine with AV not needing teamwork because HAVs also didn't need teamwork either. Going back on what I said? How? What I said was "AV shouldn't be required to use teamwork because HAVs aren't". Heck, I even made a thread about why it's a bad idea. I also said that if AV should require teamwork, then HAVs should as well. Which is far from what we have as of current. Please tell me Char. Why should AV be forced to use teamwork, when HAVs aren't? Why should I be able to hop into a tank as a single unit and require 3-6 people to destroy me? Why should 1>3? Please also refrain from spew BS about vehicles requiring teamwork. As with me spending 7 months piloting tanks and having an end total of around 7mil invested (pre 1.7), you cannot tell me that they require teamwork, as they clearly don't. But I'd love to see you try.... I'd even pay AUR for the delight. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL If you spent that long piloting tanks, we all would have run into you many times. I've seen you literally once in a match, and I forged you from a roof. You're not a "tanker." You're a never-was. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:53:00 - [52] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I was AV all the time in Chromosome. Though, it was A LOT easier back then. No scanners, tanks were easy to sneak up on and you rarely fought any infantry above standard, forget about Proto. AV is just harder now, you have to usually run a well coordinated squad; two AV guys, two Assaults and two Logi's. That's the Dust Dream squad. I don't think that's fair. Tanks are force multipliers while AV reduces your overall force. If it takes 3 guys to take down one tank then the team not only added two more players worth of force to their team, but also managed to distract three of your teammates while harassing the rest. You don't think it's fair, yet you don't think to bring your own tanker as a force multiplier. Yet tankers are stupid and use it as a crutch. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:58:00 - [53] - Quote Atiim wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: You don't tank, obviously. Also, I always run with a team. Most tanks do. 1 tank isn't an easy target...unless it's me ;) Funny, and yet still expected. The last person who said I don't tank (Anmol Singh) ended up having to swallow a bucket of "I told you so" when I squaded up with him. How does a tank require teamwork? I can (and have) done just as well running my tank solo as I have with a squad. Heck, sometimes I I even perform BETTER when I'm running solo. (Then again, I always do better solo) Now tell me. What part of that are you required to do? And what did that video result in? You being destroyed by a MLT missile turret. Of course, when on video you chose to do the thing that in some cases is easier, but you still got popped. You're just terrible at vehicles. If you have the capability to record, then do it. I'm a full time tanker. You're just infantry. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:00:00 - [54] - Quote Atiim wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: I was playing vs Bad Furry and others in Skirmish yesterday, I tore apart most of the vehicles and infantry (lol that too) with my forge but I died once at the end for not learning how to use cover. Nobody seems to aim at tank's weak spot these days... My Swarms always hit the weak-spot of tanks. Again, there you are about "your swarms," instead of "I can do this and this in my tank." It's always "my swarms." Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1530	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:02:00 - [55] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: NOOOO IT'S NOT FAIR TO HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK!! I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO SOLO WITH MINIMAL EFFORT, RISK AND INVESTMENT!! - said all pilots, ever. FTFY Now now child, profanity is bad. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2304	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:05:00 - [56] - Quote Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? Spkr4theDead wrote: Infantry didn't have to do anything difficult from when Uprising first dropped, to Dec. 9th. Now you're all complaining that you can't solo tanks anymore. Bro, do you even Scout? or Heavy? or Commando? or Laser Rifle? or anything? (Don't answer that 2nd part. I already saw you camping on that tower with a forge & PRO Heavy once.) Spkr4theDead wrote: You call yourself a tanker, yet have been on a crusade against the very thing you were skilled into. Have you destroyed any tanks since 1.7 dropped? I am not on a crusade against vehicles; And I am a tanker. Dispute it as much as you want but it is FACT. Not Pilot Fiction that people like you and Char like to tell at the dinner table. Have I destroyed tanks? Yes. However I have only destroyed vehicle pilots with my swarms when they were too dumb to activate the hardner(s). For pilots with an IQ greater than 5 (Yes, the term actually exists), I have to resort to one of my old methods. The good old Boundless Proxies next to Boundless REs trick. Idiots fall for it all the time (including you). Now tell me, what happens when I run into a pilot who actually knows what they are doing? What if I don't want to use my tank? What if somebody doesn't have a tanker with them? Tank 514. That's what. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2304	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:08:00 - [57] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: And what did that video result in? You being destroyed by a MLT missile turret. Of course, when on video you chose to do the thing that in some cases is easier, but you still got popped. You're just terrible at vehicles. If you have the capability to record, then do it. I'm a full time tanker. You're just infantry. Yes, while in tandem with an XT-1 Missile Launcher as well. And I've already addressed this so many times that you are literally saying that for the simple sake of saying it. I don't have the capability to record, and I don't plan on getting a Graphics card anytime soon. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2304	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:09:00 - [58] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: NOOOO IT'S NOT FAIR TO HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK!! I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO SOLO WITH MINIMAL EFFORT, RISK AND INVESTMENT!! - said all pilots, ever. FTFY Now now child, profanity is bad. What does the truth hurts? Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2304	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:13:00 - [59] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: I was playing vs Bad Furry and others in Skirmish yesterday, I tore apart most of the vehicles and infantry (lol that too) with my forge but I died once at the end for not learning how to use cover. Nobody seems to aim at tank's weak spot these days... My Swarms always hit the weak-spot of tanks. Again, there you are about "your swarms," instead of "I can do this and this in my tank." It's always "my swarms." That's because I like "my swarms" and I am tired of fielding "my tank". Plus, why brag about what I can do with an 80GJ Particle Cannon? Every pilot and his grandma has (or had) one. But not many carry the Wirykomi Swarm Launcher. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1531	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:13:00 - [60] - Quote Atiim wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? Spkr4theDead wrote: Infantry didn't have to do anything difficult from when Uprising first dropped, to Dec. 9th. Now you're all complaining that you can't solo tanks anymore. Bro, do you even Scout? or Heavy? or Commando? or Laser Rifle? or anything? (Don't answer that 2nd part. I already saw you camping on that tower with a forge & PRO Heavy once.) Spkr4theDead wrote: You call yourself a tanker, yet have been on a crusade against the very thing you were skilled into. Have you destroyed any tanks since 1.7 dropped? I am not on a crusade against vehicles; And I am a tanker. Dispute it as much as you want but it is FACT. Not Pilot Fiction that people like you and Char like to tell at the dinner table. Have I destroyed tanks? Yes. However I have only destroyed vehicle pilots with my swarms when they were too dumb to activate the hardner(s). For pilots with an IQ greater than 5 (Yes, the term actually exists), I have to resort to one of my old methods. The good old Boundless Proxies next to Boundless REs trick. Idiots fall for it all the time (including you). Now tell me, what happens when I run into a pilot who actually knows what they are doing? What if I don't want to use my tank? What if somebody doesn't have a tanker with them? Tank 514. That's what. LOL How can you not say every post of yours relating to vehicles is against them? Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway

Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1628	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:23:00 - [61] - Quote Who knows if the balance was better in Chromosome? Nobody skilled into Forges or Swarms. All you really needed were some OP AV grenades and it was over. Unless the only spawn point was being camped by some **** loaded with OP Blasters. Alyssa Milano.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2304	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:24:00 - [62] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL How can you not say every post of yours relating to vehicles is against them? Not every single post in regards to vehicles are against them. In fact some actually favor a buff. However, a vast majority of my posts are against what I like to call Tank 514. Why people assume that I hate vehicles is well beyond me; but then again I guess they have to have something to use as a personal attack against someone who doesn't believe in the "Be all, end all things" ideal. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 926	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:50:00 - [63] - Quote Atiim wrote: You like to, but are you required to? No. So should AV be required to? No. Stubborn? How? By calling pilot's BS when they try to BS people about how vehicles (bar Dropships) require teamwork? I believe you are stubborn in the sense that none of that stuff you nor anyone else on this entire forum (since the time of my first post) have ever once even came close to mentioning how any vehicle in this game (bar Dropships) require any form of anything that would even remotely resemble or constitute teamwork in any fashion, condition, shape or form. You still could have destroyed the Madrugar without using your squad's Warbarge Strike. You couldn't have possible ever been 100% certain that you would be destroyed by the Madrugar simply because it is a Madrugar. You have no idea the pilot's fittings, nor ability. Also, since you were using a Falchion, I'm going to assume that you were either using a Railgun or a Missile Turret. Both would have easily given you the edge over that Madrugar. Your cowardice does not count as a reason as to why vehicles require teamwork. Nor does simply deciding to use teamwork. Good tanker? There is no such thing. To be a "good" tanker would imply that tanks require skill beyond the activation of hardners and rotating the joysticks to control the camera and turret. Along with firing R1. Assault Rifles require more skill than tanks. Unless by skill, you are referring to actual Skill Points. In which case, yes I would agree that piloting a tank requires immense amounts of "skill" You should stop talking so much about something you know so little about. Every decent tanker knew that a blaster Maddy would win any head-on 1v1 tank battle with a heavy rep and an active resistance, and that's exactly what I engaged in to bait them into the trap. I escaped with a bare minimum of my shields left. Hell, you should even know that a blaster Maddy could still win if it engages a shield tank within a few seconds after even an ambush from the rear (pre 1.7). I was up against a very good and competent tanker friend of mine and I was able to sneak up on his Madrugar from the rear with missiles. He just turned around and blew me to bits before he even got to half armor. It wasn't until I had Caldari Enforcer at level 4 that missiles were effective vs armor, but even then I had Madrugars able to withstand proto missiles and wreck me with a blaster. I've been tanking for far longer than you have, so I suggest that you stop acting as if you know more than I do. You neglect the fact that skilled pilots use teamwork. You refuse to accept this and you try to prove your own false point. You can't always see teamwork. Just because some guy in a tank you think is alone is wrecking you doesn't mean that he isn't using teamwork to accomplish whatever he's doing. Like my previous example, the guy in the Madrugar that ended up exploding on top of me may have thought that my tank was OP allowing me to quickly confront him while in reality I had my gunner observing his every move the whole time allowing me to get the jump on him before he could ambush me You refuse to acknowledge the skilled pilots that use teamwork. Every single post of yours that I have read demonstrates how ignorant you are of all the pilots that use teamwork to accomplish their feats. I'm not saying that HAVs are not broken. They are broken, but just the militia ones. You are seeing all of the tank spam and you are attributing it to the lack of a teamwork requirement. The real problem is that you can get an effective tank with 0 SP which is drawing all of the FOTMers into tanks. Stop crying for a nerf that will affect the skilled and dedicated tankers in addition to the FOTMers. Think about what's at the core of the problem and go on from there. There is a solution to this madness, but you are far from it. There is a way to discourage the FOTMers from getting militia tanks with 0 SP. But you are too stubborn and want every tanker to get the same fate as the FOTMer. Also, let me suggest to you one final thing: stop fantasizing a world where HAVs are soloable by AV. They never were meant to be, nor will they ever be soloable again. A titan in EVE could never be brought down by a single frigate, but a swarm of frigates would kill a titan. But you're going to argue that in EVE you're not limited to player numbers, while in Dust you are limited to 16. That's true, but when you take fleet battles, you are still limited to what you could bring. You have to delegate a certain portion of your fleet for ECM, another portion of your fleet for logistics, yet another portion of your fleet E-warfare, etc. Although your fleet size is not limited, your limiting factor is how you can divide up your fleet to fill these roles. And the same concept applies to Dust. You have two teams, each with a 16 member count. Both teams have their roles filled out differently. One team can have more heavies than the other, or can have more vehicles than the other. This is no different than one fleet having more supercapitals than the other fleet. Fleet member count is actually very difficult to change at a moment's notice, so you are more or less stuck with what you have brought into battle. If the other fleet brought more supercapitals, well then sorry, you're screwed. In Dust, if the other team brought more vehicles than your AV can handle, sorry, you're screwed as well. Welcome to New Eden, Atiim, where engagements don't have to be fair and balanced on a 1v1 basis. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1427	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:55:00 - [64] - Quote I used to solo marauders in. Chromosome. Doing so was rewarding because. It was hard. Tanks versus AV was in a good place if you were a forge gunner because you had to leaen to exploit the weakness of the vehiclesto win. In chromo killing a marauder tank solo was instant bragging rights. Consistently gutting madrugars and gunnlogi was a genuine bragging right. I miss the days when it was possible but not trivial to kill a tank. But not easy.enough.to be trivial. I want the old fights back when tanks and AV were solidly matched. A militia tank should be gankable with militia av. Not trivially, it should be.anyones game and the odds should be slltacked in the tanks favor unless the gunner.exploits the tanks weaknesses. Advanced should match madrugar/gunnlogi Proto should match marauders and enforcers.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1531	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:59:00 - [65] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL How can you not say every post of yours relating to vehicles is against them? Not every single post in regards to vehicles are against them. In fact some actually favor a buff. However, a vast majority of my posts are against what I like to call Tank 514. Why people assume that I hate vehicles is well beyond me; but then again I guess they have to have something to use as a personal attack against someone who doesn't believe in the "Be all, end all things" ideal. The only "buff" I've ever seen you in favor of was a price drop. The price was dropped for everything, and you don't like it. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1531	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:04:00 - [66] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I used to solo marauders in. Chromosome. Doing so was rewarding because. It was hard. Tanks versus AV was in a good place if you were a forge gunner because you had to leaen to exploit the weakness of the vehiclesto win. In chromo killing a marauder tank solo was instant bragging rights. Consistently gutting madrugars and gunnlogi was a genuine bragging right. I miss the days when it was possible but not trivial to kill a tank. But not easy.enough.to be trivial. I want the old fights back when tanks and AV were solidly matched. A militia tank should be gankable with militia av. Not trivially, it should be.anyones game and the odds should be slltacked in the tanks favor unless the gunner.exploits the tanks weaknesses. Advanced should match madrugar/gunnlogi Proto should match marauders and enforcers. Nobody wants the Enforcers back. They were MLT tanks with worse stats, and the price range of the Sagaris and Surya that could each have about 9000 base HP. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 927	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:08:00 - [67] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I used to solo marauders in. Chromosome. Doing so was rewarding because. It was hard. Tanks versus AV was in a good place if you were a forge gunner because you had to leaen to exploit the weakness of the vehiclesto win. In chromo killing a marauder tank solo was instant bragging rights. Consistently gutting madrugars and gunnlogi was a genuine bragging right. I miss the days when it was possible but not trivial to kill a tank. But not easy.enough.to be trivial. I want the old fights back when tanks and AV were solidly matched. A militia tank should be gankable with militia av. Not trivially, it should be.anyones game and the odds should be slltacked in the tanks favor unless the gunner.exploits the tanks weaknesses. Advanced should match madrugar/gunnlogi Proto should match marauders and enforcers. Nobody wants the Enforcers back. They were MLT tanks with worse stats, and the price range of the Sagaris and Surya that could each have about 9000 base HP. The only thing I want back from the Falchion is the skin and the name A black and white hull with a black proto missile turret would have been a sight to fear if it had a stronger tank "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 81	Posted - 2013.12.20 06:30:00 - [68] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: militia tanks need to be made a bit weaker so those who skill into them feel they are getting something out of their SP investment. militia tank - 0 SP's 2 high 2 lows 4 total slots gunnlogi/madruger about 355k? SP in vehicle command and 35k? SP in HAV so for approx. 390kSP you get 1 extra slot. it takes nothing to unlock - why should it be so much better? it already has 25% more slots than the militia version which is a pretty big advantage in itself. where real tankers SP's play off are on the duration of modules and cool downs. through SP's alone the real tanker can stay in combat longer and return to battle quicker than a grunt in a militia tank. on my tanking alt my gunnlogi is as follows. 2 basic harders 1 large shield booster PG upgrade extra ammo on my main the Sica is 1 hardener 1 large shield booster PG upgrade extra ammo both fresh without anything on cool down there should only be one winner.
Martyr Saboteur Amarrtyrs 4	Posted - 2013.12.20 06:50:00 - [69] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Why weren't you running before your hardener was down? MUDFLAPS says it best: Good tankers never ever stop moving. I saw Mudflaps solo three tanks at once today when he was ambushed I'm his. He got 4200 WP that match. Blew me and my squadmates minds... ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQTSTALLION... I AM THE STALLION
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2590	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:41:00 - [70] - Quote I lost three MLT rail tanks on Manus peak last night despite trying to be careful. I never made it very far out of my redline in fact, despite the fact that my team held Bravo and Charlie most of the match. The first was due to a small rail dropship. I activated hardeners after the first or second hit, but it didn't help much. He followed as I ran and continued to pound my tank until it blew. It seemed like maybe ten seconds. I probably just did a bad job driving, but it gives me hope that dropships can be tank killers. DUST Fiend, you were in that match, was it you?

Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 302	Posted - 2013.12.20 15:13:00 - [71] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Every time you explain the lengths that infantry goes through to kill your tank, while infantry know how easily your tank kills them, you undermine your own position. I put 10+ mil in my tank. It better stomp. But these mlt tanks are too good for being 0 sp and 80k isk Ah yes, the fallacy of "My tank costs more so should stomp" or "I have X million SP invested ,so it should be good"... I believe if we read the post correctly we also see "my tank should take two or more people to kill".. I think the debate has moved beyond these arguments. Now we're actually looking how to balance this atrocious mechanic that has crept into the game. If they want this to continue, they should just remove the tank limit, that's a simpler option, since we are into a zero-sum game -> Tank can kill infantry AND tanks. If Tank requires two or more infantry to kill then side with numerically superior tanks will simply dominate since the number of AV infantry is capped to 16, thereby forcing opponent to deploy tank to counter tank, and so you have an uncomfortable side-effect of the patch, whereby you have 7 tanks a side swimming around like sharks in the ocean, with infantry darting from island to island in fear with absolutely no effective counter. I believe now the reasoning should be more on how to fix it - Vehicle capacitors? AV skill tree? more ammo types for AV? More AV weapons? Webifiers???
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2590	Posted - 2013.12.20 17:24:00 - [72] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Every time you explain the lengths that infantry goes through to kill your tank, while infantry know how easily your tank kills them, you undermine your own position. I put 10+ mil in my tank. It better stomp. But these mlt tanks are too good for being 0 sp and 80k isk Ah yes, the fallacy of "My tank costs more so should stomp" or "I have X million SP invested ,so it should be good"... I believe if we read the post correctly we also see "my tank should take two or more people to kill".. I think the debate has moved beyond these arguments. Now we're actually looking how to balance this atrocious mechanic that has crept into the game. If they want this to continue, they should just remove the tank limit, that's a simpler option, since we are into a zero-sum game -> Tank can kill infantry AND tanks. If Tank requires two or more infantry to kill then side with numerically superior tanks will simply dominate since the number of AV infantry is capped to 16, thereby forcing opponent to deploy tank to counter tank, and so you have an uncomfortable side-effect of the patch, whereby you have 7 tanks a side swimming around like sharks in the ocean, with infantry darting from island to island in fear with absolutely no effective counter. I believe now the reasoning should be more on how to fix it - Vehicle capacitors? AV skill tree? more ammo types for AV? More AV weapons? Webifiers??? We definately need more counters than bare DPS to counter vehicles. Even if there were a way to balance on DPS alone (which I am dubious of), it would be flat and boring play. We desperately need more options, more nuanced play, more variety. Let's have webifiers, vehicle caps and the eWar that goes with it. DUST needs more counter play than, "Get a bigger gun"
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 388	Posted - 2013.12.20 17:39:00 - [73] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Tanks were actually harder to kill in chrome. Tanks would cycle 2-3 hardeners and a booster. There was no period of weakness. It took teams of AV working together to kill a tank and those who knew what they were doing, did it regularly. I remember being in a 2.25mil tank chasing down a helpless grunt...into an ambush. All around me F-45s, proximines, swarms, and forges started ripping my 20,000 ehp tank to shreds. I had all my hardness on and got away with 500 armor. I thought I was safe, then a yolo nade hit me and I lost 2.25mil. AV understood that tankers who know their art follow a set doctrine developed over time. By understanding their prey, they could exploit its weakness. Post 1.0 and before 1.7, people got used to soloing tanks. It was extremely easy. So much so that all it did was breed the best tankers Dust has ever seen and likely ever will. The weak links have been washed out and all that remains are <20 fierce death machines who, in a duel, are the only people cape able of killing eachother. That aside, tanks seem OP because everyone was used to being able to solo them. Now it isn't possible if the tank is running hardeners and can smash through anything for <1min. Then it's glass. The infantry make the mistake of engaging during the strong periods and thus, seem like the tank is invincible. Even tanks have trouble smashing through nearly 95% resistance that gunlogis get with 2 hardeners. Tankers...the good ones...exploring this by causing their enemy to prematurely activate their hardeners and then lure them into an ambush or per sue them when they're weak. It's very possible for a gunlogi rail to solo a blaster Maddy at <15m this way. Also take into account that tanks charge when they see red because they know that they can win. This is just too easy to exploit. I'm starting to see people do this now. Yesterday, I was killed by two people. One with a mlt swarm and the other with a wiki swarm. The mlt guy shot me and I activated my hardeners. When my hardeners cut off, the proto swarm killed my in 0.6 seconds with two volleys from 50m because he knew I couldn't run away at that range. It was beautiful, honestly. I did my best and he knew what I would do, so he won. It was tactics on both of our sides. People need to learn how to read the battlefield. Tanks are easier to kill than ever, but one must wait for their hardeners to shut down. It's really that simple. Stop the QQ and adapt just like the true tankers did every patch. Well HAV's in Chromosome where slightly OP thats why they get the nerf in Uprsing leading to a situation where all of a sudden the HAV pilot needed Teamwork and smart play. Now CCP simply reverting things alongside with an AV nerf to make even the dumbest Pilot does not loose his tank to AV (and still they do). But to please even those who really put some effort in loosing their tanks CCP dropped the price tag so these pilots do not need to worry at all...


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