DUST Search - The art of AV was lost after Chrome

Atiim wrote:

You like to, but are you required to? No. So should AV be required to? No.

Stubborn? How? By calling pilot's BS when they try to BS people about how vehicles (bar Dropships) require teamwork? I believe you are stubborn in the sense that none of that stuff you nor anyone else on this entire forum (since the time of my first post) have ever once even came close to mentioning how any vehicle in this game (bar Dropships) require any form of anything that would even remotely resemble or constitute teamwork in any fashion, condition, shape or form.

You still could have destroyed the Madrugar without using your squad's Warbarge Strike. You couldn't have possible ever been 100% certain that you would be destroyed by the Madrugar simply because it is a Madrugar. You have no idea the pilot's fittings, nor ability. Also, since you were using a Falchion, I'm going to assume that you were either using a Railgun or a Missile Turret. Both would have easily given you the edge over that Madrugar.

Your cowardice does not count as a reason as to why vehicles require teamwork. Nor does simply deciding to use teamwork.

Good tanker? There is no such thing. To be a "good" tanker would imply that tanks require skill beyond the activation of hardners and rotating the joysticks to control the camera and turret. Along with firing R1. Assault Rifles require more skill than tanks.

Unless by skill, you are referring to actual Skill Points. In which case, yes I would agree that piloting a tank requires immense amounts of "skill"


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Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 925	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:51:00 - [1] - Quote 8213 wrote: Atiim wrote: 8213 wrote: The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7 There was an art? Yes actually. Good tankers really did exist. It took investment and gameskill... now my grandma can do it... ^^^ I was running a Falchion with a fusion accelerator before 1.7 dropped. I'd just bounce between objectives, staying no more than half a minute at any single objective. I was even able to take out some Madrugars by speeding around to flank them from behind with proto missiles. My largest cause of death was actually from OBs because I'd sit at an objective for too long killing infantry as they continued to spawn. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 925	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:55:00 - [2] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Atiim wrote: 8213 wrote: The art of Tanking was lost after Uprising 1.7 There was an art? Yes. Maybe you weren't around for it, but in Chrome, there were only 20 tankers in the game who could do the whole 50:0 thing ppl QQd about so much. it was hard to do it. You had to know everything at once and most of us had guys in our tank watching the map so we could never get ambushed. The balance was perfect. Now, tanking is too easy and I don't like it. AV buff isn't the answer, but a mlt tank nerf in one form or another would help. Yeah, I still remember that one time I spotted a blaster Madrugar from across half the map attempting to swing around from behind my ground spawn on Manus Peak while I was railgunning from the hills. I asked my gunner to watch the tactical map for the tank and report its position. With his help, I got the jump on the Madrugar, he ended up on top of me (literally) and my railgun fired into his underside while he couldn't even hit me because he was on top of me. My gunner was closing the tactical map and when he returned, all he saw was a tank on top of us that was exploding "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 925	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:02:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically your upset because people finally realized that they shouldn't be forced to use tactics to defeat you when you yourself aren't forced to in any way, condition, shape, or form? so you're going back on what you said prior to 1.7? Apparently you were fine with AV not needing teamwork and now that tanks do well on their own, they're OP...but AV wasn't. As expected. Vehicles are OP simply because they require teamwork to destroy, yet require no teamwork to operate whatsoever. I was perfectly fine with AV not needing teamwork because HAVs also didn't need teamwork either. Going back on what I said? How? What I said was "AV shouldn't be required to use teamwork because HAVs aren't". Heck, I even made a thread about why it's a bad idea. I also said that if AV should require teamwork, then HAVs should as well. Which is far from what we have as of current. Please tell me Char. Why should AV be forced to use teamwork, when HAVs aren't? Why should I be able to hop into a tank as a single unit and require 3-6 people to destroy me? Why should 1>3? Please also refrain from spew BS about vehicles requiring teamwork. As with me spending 7 months piloting tanks and having an end total of around 7mil invested (pre 1.7), you cannot tell me that they require teamwork, as they clearly don't. But I'd love to see you try.... I'd even pay AUR for the delight. See my above post. Sure, we can run solo, but so can the common infantryman. But of course, we like to use teamwork to make us better off. So does the common infantryman when they team up with a heavy, a logi, and an assault. You are stubborn when you keep failing to realize the good tankers use teamwork. I will always have at least one small turret on my tank for a squad member, or even a blueberry, because it helps with anti-infantry duties. Sure some blueberries are annoying, but I've recently only been coming across decent gunners. I always prefer to be in a squad, and I always rely on them to give me enemy positions. I've taken out many vehicles because I had my squad members point out their position and movement so I could get the jump on them from behind. I've even had cases where I knew I was going to lose a battle against a Madrugar if it was only me, but I had the squad commander drop an OB on the Madrugar while we were engaged. I was basically using myself as a lure to bait the Madrugar into a trap. In fact, I was an expensive lure because I was with my Falchion, so of course he'd bite, only to get barraged by proto missiles and bombarded from orbit. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 926	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:50:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: You like to, but are you required to? No. So should AV be required to? No. Stubborn? How? By calling pilot's BS when they try to BS people about how vehicles (bar Dropships) require teamwork? I believe you are stubborn in the sense that none of that stuff you nor anyone else on this entire forum (since the time of my first post) have ever once even came close to mentioning how any vehicle in this game (bar Dropships) require any form of anything that would even remotely resemble or constitute teamwork in any fashion, condition, shape or form. You still could have destroyed the Madrugar without using your squad's Warbarge Strike. You couldn't have possible ever been 100% certain that you would be destroyed by the Madrugar simply because it is a Madrugar. You have no idea the pilot's fittings, nor ability. Also, since you were using a Falchion, I'm going to assume that you were either using a Railgun or a Missile Turret. Both would have easily given you the edge over that Madrugar. Your cowardice does not count as a reason as to why vehicles require teamwork. Nor does simply deciding to use teamwork. Good tanker? There is no such thing. To be a "good" tanker would imply that tanks require skill beyond the activation of hardners and rotating the joysticks to control the camera and turret. Along with firing R1. Assault Rifles require more skill than tanks. Unless by skill, you are referring to actual Skill Points. In which case, yes I would agree that piloting a tank requires immense amounts of "skill" You should stop talking so much about something you know so little about. Every decent tanker knew that a blaster Maddy would win any head-on 1v1 tank battle with a heavy rep and an active resistance, and that's exactly what I engaged in to bait them into the trap. I escaped with a bare minimum of my shields left. Hell, you should even know that a blaster Maddy could still win if it engages a shield tank within a few seconds after even an ambush from the rear (pre 1.7). I was up against a very good and competent tanker friend of mine and I was able to sneak up on his Madrugar from the rear with missiles. He just turned around and blew me to bits before he even got to half armor. It wasn't until I had Caldari Enforcer at level 4 that missiles were effective vs armor, but even then I had Madrugars able to withstand proto missiles and wreck me with a blaster. I've been tanking for far longer than you have, so I suggest that you stop acting as if you know more than I do. You neglect the fact that skilled pilots use teamwork. You refuse to accept this and you try to prove your own false point. You can't always see teamwork. Just because some guy in a tank you think is alone is wrecking you doesn't mean that he isn't using teamwork to accomplish whatever he's doing. Like my previous example, the guy in the Madrugar that ended up exploding on top of me may have thought that my tank was OP allowing me to quickly confront him while in reality I had my gunner observing his every move the whole time allowing me to get the jump on him before he could ambush me You refuse to acknowledge the skilled pilots that use teamwork. Every single post of yours that I have read demonstrates how ignorant you are of all the pilots that use teamwork to accomplish their feats. I'm not saying that HAVs are not broken. They are broken, but just the militia ones. You are seeing all of the tank spam and you are attributing it to the lack of a teamwork requirement. The real problem is that you can get an effective tank with 0 SP which is drawing all of the FOTMers into tanks. Stop crying for a nerf that will affect the skilled and dedicated tankers in addition to the FOTMers. Think about what's at the core of the problem and go on from there. There is a solution to this madness, but you are far from it. There is a way to discourage the FOTMers from getting militia tanks with 0 SP. But you are too stubborn and want every tanker to get the same fate as the FOTMer. Also, let me suggest to you one final thing: stop fantasizing a world where HAVs are soloable by AV. They never were meant to be, nor will they ever be soloable again. A titan in EVE could never be brought down by a single frigate, but a swarm of frigates would kill a titan. But you're going to argue that in EVE you're not limited to player numbers, while in Dust you are limited to 16. That's true, but when you take fleet battles, you are still limited to what you could bring. You have to delegate a certain portion of your fleet for ECM, another portion of your fleet for logistics, yet another portion of your fleet E-warfare, etc. Although your fleet size is not limited, your limiting factor is how you can divide up your fleet to fill these roles. And the same concept applies to Dust. You have two teams, each with a 16 member count. Both teams have their roles filled out differently. One team can have more heavies than the other, or can have more vehicles than the other. This is no different than one fleet having more supercapitals than the other fleet. Fleet member count is actually very difficult to change at a moment's notice, so you are more or less stuck with what you have brought into battle. If the other fleet brought more supercapitals, well then sorry, you're screwed. In Dust, if the other team brought more vehicles than your AV can handle, sorry, you're screwed as well. Welcome to New Eden, Atiim, where engagements don't have to be fair and balanced on a 1v1 basis. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 927	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:08:00 - [5] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I used to solo marauders in. Chromosome. Doing so was rewarding because. It was hard. Tanks versus AV was in a good place if you were a forge gunner because you had to leaen to exploit the weakness of the vehiclesto win. In chromo killing a marauder tank solo was instant bragging rights. Consistently gutting madrugars and gunnlogi was a genuine bragging right. I miss the days when it was possible but not trivial to kill a tank. But not easy.enough.to be trivial. I want the old fights back when tanks and AV were solidly matched. A militia tank should be gankable with militia av. Not trivially, it should be.anyones game and the odds should be slltacked in the tanks favor unless the gunner.exploits the tanks weaknesses. Advanced should match madrugar/gunnlogi Proto should match marauders and enforcers. Nobody wants the Enforcers back. They were MLT tanks with worse stats, and the price range of the Sagaris and Surya that could each have about 9000 base HP. The only thing I want back from the Falchion is the skin and the name A black and white hull with a black proto missile turret would have been a sight to fear if it had a stronger tank "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32