No. Grab a militia sica, fit it with two millita damage mods and pop the tanks.... Its so easy I won st least 5 matches today just busting tanks that were trying to slay my blueberrys while they were pressing objective. Even the dumbest of redberrys says " ah hell with it" after the get smoked two or three times then you recall And the match continues in peace.... Have not busted any of the big boys yet but this tactic works wonders on the scrub tankers and makes you a pile of WP and *gasp* your doing something good for your team.

Vehicles belong in this game. They have an entire skill tree and every thing. You want just infantry? Back to COD with you then. I like diversity and for craps sake being killed by a tank is still better than being reapeatedly raped by the damn duevolle AR over and over and over

Agreed, +1.

Other than a lack of anti-shield AV, REs/mines needing a buff and a need to fix draw distance so swarms can get a possible range buff tank/AV is about as balanced as it'll ever be. You rarely see militia tanks getting more thang 10-15 kills and you have to use timing to pop a tank. Basically, they made it harder for both sides to kill eachother.

Also, is something really OP if everyone can use it? I mainly play infantry but always keep a few tanks on hand just in case. This makes the game more dynamic and adds a dimension of combat that used to only be known by a select few. Anyone can tank now, but the ones that invest and practice will do it better.

though i agree to the tank speed being reduced and Armour hardeners should be limits

i do not agree with swarms being set back to 1.6 settings i am an assault/ AV player though yes swarms are a waste of SP right now hell all AV weapons are
i think if they slowed the tanks down and gave us swarms 300 per missile 1800 damage but kept the range of the swarms to 175m i think it will defo even the balance
if it turns out swarms become to OP though this fix drop them down to 250 damage per missile 1500 damage or make the target lock slower

there was talk in a post a few days ago in one of the threads about bringing flaylocks back purely for AV use quicker lock on 300 damage per shot 900 damage before reloading and good rate of fire but only has 100m range
i liked this idea most players do have flaylocks SP i know it wont do much damage but the rate of fire they gave out and with loads of people using them for AV it will defo give the tankers something to worry about

the idea was to make the flaylock shine again


not sure what you think of this?

My tank can passively rep through proto swarms, so I find it hard to believe that a 35% buff to swarm damage would affect the current tanks. But, from my LAV perspective, I agree that I would be wrecked, and of course i don't "want" it to be that way. It's only a level 3 LAV, so I expect some degree of wreckage from proto weapons.

It's hard to argue about flaylocks having some purpose in the game. And it would probably become an essential sidearm to most players if it worked. Again, I think my LAV would suffer horribly, but it seems there is no way to win that fight.

i agree the passive repair is quicker then 1 proto swarm but team of 2 or 3 will defo give it a run for its money with the 35% damage plus the damage mods and proficiency put on each swarm may do over 2k damage

and the reason i brought up the flaylocks is because i think even now more people are speced into them more then a swarm launcher

You have to keep in mind this is a WIP. AV was probably scaled down since we only have standard vehicles and we don't have all the racial AV. Prices are probably lower to get as many tanks out there to collect data faster too. Once we get more content for both sides, we might see a clearer picture in balance. Right now, vehicles are much more accessible than in the past and that's a much needed change.

I suppose that this suggestion may be rather obvious, but here goes. Just because it is there, does not mean it needs to be engaged. If infantry stayed away from the tank the entire match how will it shoot anyone? Boredom is a great motivator to try something different (DS Pilots have fun).

focused av fire works well against tanks. but it requires the one thing most of ppl on this game probably know nothing about "teamwork"


although i havnt had much trouble destroying those mlt tanks u ppl say r op.


since most of them are unskilled drivers to begin with ive had a rather easy time poping them with my better fitted soma.as i went into the core skills for vehicles. although i do kinda regret wasting all that sp just to unlock the std large missile turrets i could have just went into blaster turrets instead and leveled up fitting optimization. and possibly unlocked std havs.

which i intend to do if im ever going to create my special anti tank fitting.


aside from all this it looks like all the ppl who say tanks r op r just focusing on mlt tanks only. right now id say tank vs tank combat is more balanced then ever. if u nerf mlt tanks to being paper thin again what do u think is going to happen?

instead of mlt tanks being spammed u will be dealing with even stronger ad much BETTER fitted maddies and gunlogis without any actual way to take them down for the simple fact that u nerfed the already weakest of the tanks to be even weaker and easier to destroy with the thought that this will make things easier for av.

it would make soloing mlt tanks easier. but it would make killing maddies and gunlogis next to impossible. and possibly more expensive.

and so the crying would get worse in the end.

ive also managed to kill many of those mlt tanks with adv cbr7 swarms and av nades.

its all about positioning then.

although to give tanks an actual weakness since current playstyle seems to be running away with active hardeners we could make hardeners slow the vehicle down or immobilize it for now and see what happens from there.

It's a continuous work in progress, and that's why I post in hopes of changing the current direction the game is going. Militia tanks were always accessible, just expensive. I'm ok with them being cheap. I even like it.

Math time.

Sica has 2650 shield and 1500 armor.

Proto swarms have 220 damage with 6 missiles, for a total of 1320 damage.

add in sica's 20% resistance to missiles, we get 1056 total damage.

x3 swarms is 3168 damage. that's assuming the 20% resistance applies to all damage. After the 2650 shield is gone, the damage gets a 20% bonus to damage. That's assuming no hardeners active on the sica, and no damage mods on the swarm launcher. Gunnlogi has same base stats, and one extra high slot.

I won't run figures with the hardener up, because you aren't supposed to attack when the hardener is up. The balance is actually pretty close to good right now. The issue is damage application. Returning AV to 1.6 levels would ruin vehicles (tanks aren't the only vehicle out there) because they have no chance to get away from swarms. Watch this video for further information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw

The damage nerf was because we only have standard vehicles right now. We can't balance proto weapons against proto vehicles that haven't been released, and won't be released for many months to come. Your swarms can deal killing damage to tanks, but the problem is how easy it is to escape that damage.

We should increase swarm missile speed, so that tanks have less time to find cover before they hit. But upping lock on range or raw damage output screws over LAVs and dropships along with tanks.

Currently, 2 proto swarms are laughable to my tank, unless I'm AFK. 3 can do some damage, but are not a considerable threat. Maybe if they all had proto, level 5 proficiency, stacked damage mods, and increased range, then I might be worried, a little. But I will be shooting back, so not too worried. Either way, that is not an average player that you are describing. And to have 3 of them together focused on a tank, should be OP, in my opinion. Also remember that the tank is unlikely alone. There are 15 other players on the team and they loooove shooting swarmers.

Well, sure. We could also form a circle around the fireplace and sing Kumbaya. But I joined the match to fight, I just want it to be balanced.

I did fly dropships for a while, but the assault dropships don't work with a motion controller, and it's not that much fun to just fly around in circles as target practice for forges.

I just bought 6 new games on Amazon. I would have loved to spend the money on Dust, but hopefully after I'm done with those, Dust will be in a better place. And no, I'm not giving away my stuff. lol. I do have hope that I'll be back.

I agree with some of the OP suggestions and I took it to mean implement one or two and see how it goes. Here's a typical assault. A tank barrels into a scene guns blazing, every one on the other side runs and hides but one or two usually get taken out. If they have a swarm or forge they'll fire a few shots then the hardener comes on. While they're either hopelessly firing at the tank or waiting it out, the infantry roll out from behind the tank and start firing away. If by some miracle they're repelled and the hardener times-out the tank either resumes firing or races away at ludicrous speed just to start the process all over again. Meanwhile a lot of wasted ammo is used up while the tank enjoys unlimited ammo.

1. Slow them down.

2. Reduce the hardener time.

3. No ability to shoot while the hardener is activated.

4. Give tanks an ammo budget that can be reloaded at a vehicle depot.

Cheers

Just some thoughts. Cheers

I like it when math is used, but please use it right.

No one disagree that three swarms WILL kill a tank. If those 3 swarms hit him SIMULTANOUSLY!

And that will never happen in a realistic scenario.

In a real scenario you have time between shoots, ostacles, tank speed and other enemies that are not considered in your math.

range is good but if they ups the damage and kept the range it will defo help granted it may only be an extra 300 damage or so per swarm luancher but thats a lot better without it and with 1% proficency any 3 damage mods u looking at 500 to 600 per swarm

In fairness, after the 1.7 update, #4 on your list was implemented. There is an easy work around though. If there are no available supply depots, they just call in another tank. All good ideas though.

Reduce the rate and damage threshold that the shield/armor can repair for tanks.
create movement penalties for some of the modules damage mods, hardeners, shield extenders etc.( to create a sacrifice to movement)
increase the damage type downfalls for heavy turrets(to buff the turret role status)
Create a redline return to battle/kick system to eliminate rail tanks camping the redline all match.( specific to tanks make it like 4 mins to allow for calling it in, recalling it in the redline, restock in the redline. so like 4mins warning and then a 1-2 min final warning then kick.)

problem solved.

I agree with some of the OP suggestions and I took it to mean implement one or two and see how it goes. Here's a typical assault. A tank barrels into a scene guns blazing, every one on the other side runs and hides but one or two usually get taken out. If they have a swarm or forge they'll fire a few shots then the hardener comes on. While they're either hopelessly firing at the tank or waiting it out, the infantry roll out from behind the tank and start firing away. If by some miracle they're repelled and the hardener times-out the tank either resumes firing or races away at ludicrous speed just to start the process all over again. Meanwhile a lot of wasted ammo is used up while the tank enjoys unlimited ammo.

1. Slow them down.

2. Reduce the hardener time.

3. No ability to shoot while the hardener is activated.

4. Give tanks an ammo budget that can be reloaded at a vehicle depot.

Cheers

Just some thoughts. Cheers

3. All kinds of no. what would be the point of vehicles then?

I guess I was looking at the combo of nearly impenetrable defense, high fire rate and ability to escape at a ridiculously high speed. I as a FG have good firepower against an unhardened tank but will die with 1-2 shots by them and can't run to save my life, literally. Sometimes I want a hover-board slogging around in a heavy suit. As I mentioned though, I've had 2nd thoughts as a team can take down even a hardened tank driver that gets pinned. I think the novelty has worn off as I'm seeing a lot less tanks to destroy. Take it easy.

i thought ccp had already reduced movement speed of them?

they feel much slower now than when i was driving them on day1..

id say our current tanks r fine.. well mlt feels fine any ways...

now since hardeners and other such modules are cycled with if they worked like this u have 3 shield hardeners on a gunlogi.

instead of being able to cycle them. the second u activate 1 of the hardeners the rest activate at the same time. this means no more permanent hardened tanks.

which could mean an end to this tank stomping.


although the only times ive brought out a tank was when i was having an extremely hard time trying to push an objective. or when there was an enemy tank prowling about trying to farm kills...

repping isnt the problem... think of that like an endless light armor repair module that never turns off.. u can still negate the damges easily. although it doesnt feels as great as that temporary active light rep module..

EMP grenades - completely disable a tank for a brief period of time, leaving it vulnerable, unable to attack, and unable to retreat. only effective against vehicles. It sounds awesome, but I wouldn't expect something like that to be added until like version 3.0 or something.

Vulnerable point - maybe a small window to shoot the driver through. Not as bad as the giant open convertible that the poor LAV drivers have to put up with, but something that even non AV infantry have a chance at fighting back.

Uber +1 to those ideas, in all honesty. More so to the vulnerable point, than the EMP greande. Immobilizing a tank entirely as such would probably be a little too much. It'd just make it a fish in a barrel at that point. But as for the vulnerable point, I'm totes for it. Like...the window is a great idea, albeit small, or remote explosives could have a such effect that if they blow up underneath a tank, not only do they deal damage to the tank, but they can also break the tracks that the tanks roll on, therefore immobilizing the movement, but not the turret. And think, most people who use remote explosives drop them on crucial, and vital points in the map, specifically in the middle of the road. So if they immobilize that said tank in the middle of the road, next to an objective, then it turns out, you just made a deployed blaster/railgun/missle installation.
Edit: With that in mind, they can have as many hardeners as they want. If they can't move, I'm okay with a unremoveable speedbump in the middle of the road that can shoot at you.

ahh, finally. I was starting to wonder if anybody read past the first paragraph. lol.

EMP grenades could be too powerful, but they could also be pretty limited. You could limit infantry to carrying one (like thukkers), and make them only last 5 to 10 seconds. I can just imagine the computer voice saying, "system offline.... rebooting..." They could also be very short range, so you have to be up close to use them. So a tanker could either get out and try to shoot the attacker or rely on his own surrounding infantry to help him out. Teamwork is a concept very foreign to most tankers though, so they won't like that. Other than that, I don't feel bad if they get killed quickly because they quickly kill everything else on the map, so why shouldn't they?

The window is actually my favorite. Tanks get a perfect 3rd person birds eye view of everything and no weak spot. It doesn't seem logical to me. A small window would give any infantry a chance, albeit a small one, to fight back. That is the way it should be, in my opinion. It would make tanks think twice about rushing into a hot zone like they do now. I also think they should be forced to see out that window, like a real first person shooter - but the crying would never stop, so devs shouldn't bother.

Tanks would be fine with both of these if they actually played somewhat realistically and kept their distance from the enemy.

Math time.

Sica has 2650 shield and 1500 armor.

Proto swarms have 220 damage with 6 missiles, for a total of 1320 damage.

add in sica's 20% resistance to missiles, we get 1056 total damage.

x3 swarms is 3168 damage. that's assuming the 20% resistance applies to all damage. After the 2650 shield is gone, the damage gets a 20% bonus to damage. That's assuming no hardeners active on the sica, and no damage mods on the swarm launcher. Gunnlogi has same base stats, and one extra high slot.

I won't run figures with the hardener up, because you aren't supposed to attack when the hardener is up. The balance is actually pretty close to good right now. The issue is damage application. Returning AV to 1.6 levels would ruin vehicles (tanks aren't the only vehicle out there) because they have no chance to get away from swarms. Watch this video for further information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw

The damage nerf was because we only have standard vehicles right now. We can't balance proto weapons against proto vehicles that haven't been released, and won't be released for many months to come. Your swarms can deal killing damage to tanks, but the problem is how easy it is to escape that damage.

We should increase swarm missile speed, so that tanks have less time to find cover before they hit. But upping lock on range or raw damage output screws over LAVs and dropships along with tanks.

These are good ideas however implementing all of these would reduce tanks to 1.6 cheese again.

Considering that tanks are weaker then 1.6 when hardeners are off...if you have 1 and it goes off.

Instead of introducing a bunch of new things, we should adjust what is out there to resemble some kind of sanity. CCP balances things with a sledge hammer. Introducing new things to kill tanks will make AV overpowered again and we'll just flip-flop between one or the other being OP forever.

Yes tanks, with hardeners, are god-mode. <--- if this is the problem, this should be addressed.

What exists needs to be balanced without the introduction of new things, which themselves will need to be balanced.

The "wave" idea is stupid. Eve has a decade of experience at vehicle combat/tanking and Dust has learned NOTHING from any of that. The Eve system works...why is it so impossible to say "Hey look, that works really well...maybe we should do that."

Too many radical changes will just take tanks from being OP to being completely useless. We need to look at smaller steps.

1) Reduce tank spam by making Tanks less viable for people who donGÇÖt specialise in tanks.

Nerf vehicle health by 25%, but add the +5% HP for each level of shield and amour skill. This is a 25% nerf to people who donGÇÖt have vehicle skills, while not effecting anyone with Vehicle Armour and Shield skills maxed.

2) Buff Swarm Launcher slightly.
Buff lock range by 25m. 175 + 25 = 200m (was 400m in 1.6)
Buff missel damage by 30. 220 + 30 = 250 (was 330 in 1.6)

Then lets test AV against dedicated tankers without the AV getting swarmed by militia tanks. Once we assess the situation without all the clutter, then we can discuss what else needs to be done. Trying to fix everything in one step is how tanks became OP in the first place.


Also:
- I donGÇÖt like making Militia tanks more expensive. A new merc can invest half a million skill points in vehicles if they want to specialise in tanking, but they donGÇÖt start with a lot of ISK.

- I donGÇÖt like capping the tanks at 2. The first two proto Infantry who spawn will call in militia tanks, and then the 22 million skill point tanker who spawns in after will be forced to run around in a militia starter suit until one of the militia tanks are killed.

Prolonged deployment time for tanks. Make a lead time of some kind, maybe 1 minute after calling in a tank for it to be deployed. This would almost completely eliminate tank spamming without nerfs or buffs. It would give AV players a chance to eliminate 1 tank at a time without having that tank replaced in 10 seconds. It would give ambush players and all infantry a chance to establish themselves before getting dominated by tanks. It also requires the tanker to invest time to be the most OP person on the map.

Symmetric decrease of fire power and defense of tanks. this would allow the same tank v tank battles while making them slightly less effective to everything else and more vulnerable to attacks. This is really just a nerf, but probably badly needed at this point.

You would think, but most don't have the build you speak of. In addition, shields have built in 20% resistance to swarms. So with a hardner on, that's 80% resistance, So with continuous hardners, youre proto swarms are doing about 44 dmg per missile. When a tank passively heals shields at over 200 hp/sec (dont remember the actual number), it heals faster than you can hurt it.

It just seems logical to me that if you're going to make a weapon useless, just remove it from the game. CCP seems to be passive aggressive about it and just turns it into a paperweight for your collection.

Anyway, I'm tired of talking about swarms. I haven't used them in months, so doesn't bother me terribly. I do think it's a little unfair to the light suit AV players though.

i'm gonna keep saying nerfing tanks or buffing AV untill there is a standing dedicated AV force will only break tanks again.

large blasters could use a pass(too powerful against infantry),
swarms need a dumb fire(with av nade trigger)
and wp for damage needs to return.

but until those things are done tanks and av should be left be they will find balance and if it is still skewed after 3 months then tiny changes can be made, The main issue right now is that no one wants to do something other then what they have been doing right now, they are used to tanks not being relevant and so they behave in way that do not make sense in a game with functional tanks and then blame it on the tanks while refusing to adapt. I'm not saying get gud, i'm saying try something other then assualt type suit with assualt type gun, for once.

as for tankers who are complaining I can help but feel that you miss feeling like the only power house on the feild, I mean I can die 30 times in a match against 3 tanks but because I keep fielding tanks they will often win, I mean ground force stop being harassed as long as their is a threat on the field. Same goes with AV threats don't present your self to tanks cuase then they are done with you and move on make them work for it untill the are forced to leave then find where they ran to and do it again. eventually they will get so fed up with you they will stick around a little too long you will kill them, or they will recall their tank. ooohhhhhh wait you don care if your team wins you care bout your KDR......

Read the last line in the first post. And fyi, im a vehicle driver.

Go play World of Tanks Stinker Butt

i'm gonna keep saying nerfing tanks or buffing AV untill there is a standing dedicated AV force will only break tanks again...

that does some what make sense but what if they up the damage on swarm luachers say 250 per missile thats 1000 for basic swarms and prototype has 1500

then put the shields on tanks like what you out of suits put a delay on them but say 30 seconds and then restrict the hardeners you have down to 1 hardener per tank i know a few people put 2 or 3 on when one runs out they switch to anther one and wait for first one to cool down then restrict the speed of the tank down so its not faster then an LAV

i read a post a few days ago i liked the idea of where tanks LAVs and drop ships will have swarms on them

tanks have anti air craft but will need to give up a slot for an extra player to use the AA gun and drop ships have anti vehicle on them i was thinking maybe an extra turret that comes out the bottom of the drop ship to give it best possible chance

People seem generally against the idea of buffing swarms. I guess tankers don't feel it's fair that they should have to die to swarms. I don't really get it, but I give up.

I like the idea you mentioned - anti aircraft on tanks and vice versa. something for LAVs too. good idea

I am not very sure what you guys mean by the "window", but this is what I think

A tank should be the sum of its parts, its not like the entire tank is one **** of metal.
A window should be like the door in which you enter a tank, maybe from behind.
A well placed RE or missile file should be able to blow up the window/door.
Even if the tank repairs to full health the door would remain open.
Maybe I am asking for too much as this game's engine is supposedly outdated.
I believe a PS3 game should be able to do this.

Also no matter what anyone says, TANKS ARE TOO FAST.
They should be like Heavys
They move like they are paperweight.
I said this before but tanks are doing ballet after their speed nerf
I saw two tanks on my team forming a triangle

First and most importantly, the number one balancing factor--period--is map design.

I've read the post about maps, and while I agree that the maps need major reworking, I do have a couple of problems. First, I've been playing this game since early in closed beta, and we average a new map about every 4-5 months. So waiting for new maps to be made and old to be redesigned is extremely unlikely. And second, making maps where you don't really need to deal with the problem, doesn't really solve the problem.

The problem is, when I get in my tank, I'm able to destroy everything in sight. There is nothing that can stop me, short of another tank. I usually go multiple matches back to back before I find one match that there is a group of people working together that can beat me. And I'm solo. I don't even have that much sp invested in tanks. I don't consider myself a tanker, but I think I'm over-powered. I usually get 250k to 450k isk per match, and lose nothing. If you make maps that I only have access to some of the infantry, I may have lower kills, but I'm still OP.

Some people seem to want to buff swarms to fight tanks, others seem to think they are only meant for LAVs. i'm ok either way, but they are currently very effective against LAVs. with proto swarms, cheap LAV's go down in 2 shots, and the best LAV's go down in 3. that seems reasonable to me, because they are extremely hard to escape if you stop for more than 1 second. But if you are going to buff swarm damage for tanks, I think LAVs need a buff to compensate. 1 shot to kill LAVs is a little ridiculous. if it still takes 2-3 shots after the buff, then no big deal.

I still like the delayed spawn time for tanks. 1 minute isn't that long to wait to instantly become the most OP person on the map. Maybe I'm just used to it. I've been playing competitive fps since Doom was on a dial up modem. First time I played with tanks was "Unreal Tournament" and even then you had to wait patiently for the tank. It seemed to work perfectly well, and we never just sat and did nothing while waited. You defend the point until it gets there - unless you call it into the safe zone, but that's your choice. If 1 minute is really too long, then make it 45 seconds. It's not carved in stone. but there should be some kind of sacrifice made to bring in the tank.

i would like to see different types of maps like 1 very dusty or foggy raining heavy snow grass maps would be nice maybe some trees i find it hard to believe the only maps CCP can come up with are deserts

I've been playing this game since early in closed beta, and we average a new map about every 4-5 months. So waiting for new maps to be made and old to be redesigned is extremely unlikely.

And second, making maps where you don't really need to deal with the problem, doesn't really solve the problem.

1 minute isn't that long to wait to instantly become the most OP person on the map.

Ooooh, one like vietnam. Heavy brush so you can barely see through it and BAM enemy. Well actually more like 'scan' there you are, but still, jungle would be a fun mash up too.

Wouldn't adding more cover and more CQC areas to the map solve the problem of the ostensibly OP sniper, without having to nerf the sniper's weapon?

There shouldn't be a minimum wait time to become the most OP person on the map.

but they havent made any maps all they down in take some old buildings off and put new ones on and cover it in snow thats not new that cheap

i would like to see different types of maps like 1 very dusty or foggy raining heavy snow grass maps would be nice maybe some trees i find it hard to believe the only maps CCP can come up with are deserts

anyone who thinks that two players running anti-vehicle fits should not be able to take out a tank being operated by one player In it Is obviously a tanker. Its obvious that you have no interest in a balanced and fair game, you just want your kill death ratio to be higher than other players, and you should just stop commenting now. on the same token if a player with a full skill tree for a swarm launcher goes against a tanker with little to no skills invested in his skill tree, its obvious that the swarm launcher should have no problem taking the him out. if you had it your way and tanks ruled this game from here on just like they do now, this game's player base would decrease just to tankers, and then you could play all by yourselfs. I personally have quit this game until this vehicle problem is fixed, which sucks because I really enjoyed it. I guess everything comes to an end sooner or later. On to PS4.

With all the drama here, I debated for days whether I should even bother posting, but the recent HMG buff actually gave me some hope for this game again. So I'll give it one more go.

It's enough evidence for me to know that tanks are OP because of the insane amount of spamming them on the battlefield. But I know that isn't enough for everyone, so let me explain further. Even mercs that are terrible team players, have little to no gun game, and no situational awareness are still extremely successful in a tank. Now put that tank in the hands of a player who is good at all of those things, and you have something that's beyond OP.

Why is it OP? You have created something that is technically able to withstand enemy attacks from an entire team at times (since most aren't even AV). It also has the ability to flee the scene at a high rate of speed at the first sign of danger. And it has the highest killing power of anything on the map. Any one of these is enough to consider it OP by some standards, but you have given tanks all 3. Imagine if an infantryman could run 10x faster than a tank, shoot it down in less than a second, all while being attacked by 3 other tanks and just shrugging them off. That is exactly how infantry feel right now, and that is why so many people are quitting. This is a competitive fps, and it should be played like one.

There are some good suggestions out there, and here are a few:

Return AV weapons to 1.6 stats. As a vehicle driver myself, I know how ineffective all of these weapons are at there current state. They've been nerfed to the point that they are just wasted skill points. Any tanker will tell you that Proto AV weapons with level 5 proficiency and stacked damage mods should be ineffective to a tank, but you need to use common sense and do what you know is right for this game.

Slow tanks down.... way down. Who decided tanks should be so fast anyway? In what world do tanks charge around the battlefield into the middle of every dangerous situation? Thrusters on a tank?! Did someone put NOS on that thing? I know this game isn't real, but there should be at least some small sense of realism.

EMP grenades - completely disable a tank for a brief period of time, leaving it vulnerable, unable to attack, and unable to retreat. only effective against vehicles. It sounds awesome, but I wouldn't expect something like that to be added until like version 3.0 or something.

Vulnerable point - maybe a small window to shoot the driver through. Not as bad as the giant open convertible that the poor LAV drivers have to put up with, but something that even non AV infantry have a chance at fighting back.

Stacking hardners - I understand that the active hardner should make a tank almost invulnerable for a short period of time, but my gunnlogi has 3 stacked and I can run them continuously with no cool down to worry about. This is clearly not as intended and the tank should be limited to 1.

Limit tanks to 1 or 2 per side at a time. During 1.6 and before, 2 tanks on a battlefield working together made an extremely difficult fight. Now that they are OP, 7 tanks per side is not uncommon and is beyond ridiculous. I personally would go even farther to say that you should only be allowed to spawn 1 tank yourself during a match. So if you lose it, you will have to wait until the next match to spawn another and it gives others on your team a chance to call in their own. Tank spamming should not be allowed.

Raise the price of tanks. I don't like this one. it's obvious, but it doesn't solve anything. And it just gives tankers an excuse to justify being OP. I personally like the low isk cost and sp requirements as it gives even new players a chance to try things out without a huge investment.

Increase the spread of all large turrets. This would essentially make them less useful against infantry, but still useful against other tanks, vehicles, installations, etc. The turrets are currently dead on accurate even from across the map. I've been hit many times by a rail turret from so far away that I could barely see it. You can literally shoot a rail turret tank from the blue side red zone and hit LAVs on the red side red zone in most of these maps.

Infantry only battle options. It would work, but I'm certain no infantry would join the regular battles unless they were running with tankers.

Edit - added 2 more ideas:
Prolonged deployment time for tanks. Make a lead time of some kind, maybe 1 minute after calling in a tank for it to be deployed. This would almost completely eliminate tank spamming without nerfs or buffs. It would give AV players a chance to eliminate 1 tank at a time without having that tank replaced in 10 seconds. It would give ambush players and all infantry a chance to establish themselves before getting dominated by tanks. It also requires the tanker to invest time to be the most OP person on the map.



And FYI, calling in another tank to deal with a tank still leaves an OP tank either way and is not really an appropriate solution, despite what tankers seem to believe.

just to clarify, tanks in real life are extremely fast - some faster than they are in this game, but thats why real life tanks are OP

tanks in video games should be EXTREMELY slow but have MUCH more health, coinciding with AV dmg getting a buff and ammo capacity increasing

Tanks are not OP, they are being spammed because they are actually useful and fixed and bad pilots will get easily whacked

Tanks are made to survive an AR shooting at it, if the enemy doesnt use AV then whos fault is it?

Tanks are fast, they can go fast in RL ya know

Proto AV is fine, it can easily kill tanks, stop shooting when the tank is glowing unless you have a FG which can cause enough damage to stop regen

Asking for realism in a game? okay then FG shouldnt exist because lolrealism, lolno tanks speed are fine and to use realism they can go pretty fast in RL, ask for webs or EWAR instead of nerf

lolno, in a tank in a pod i dont need a window, also there is a weak point on the tank already

Will you limit infantry with only 1 plate or repper or dmg mod? you taking sand out of my sandbox

lolno unless you limit infantry to only 2 assault/logi/heavy and the remain slots are filled with scouts/commandos, once again taking sand out of the sandbox

Im rich doesnt matter

Increase spread? why i have to aim more with a large turret than an AR because i dont get the benefits of Auto Aim

Give me a tank only mode

Another pointless nerf idea, lolno


So OP writes a post of bad ideas mainly and just asks for nerfs to a balanced class now

Wrong! Tanks are being spammed because they are an exploit now not because they are fixed/balanced.
If you want realism you shouldnt be able to repair damage to inorganic matter like tank shields and armor either.
Make better arguments please, you seem more interested in pointing out that the original poster is wrong.
The game is supposed to be futuristic, not fantasy. So realism is a must.
Future soldiers should not be get mowed down by tanks.
When tanks were first introduced decades ago you can understand why people would get mowed over.
But in the future that shouldnt be the case. Even right now a 14 year old kid can deal significant damage to a tank with a rocket launcher( I am just guessing).
Anyways don't just say OP is wrong make sound arguments.
The basic idea of the forge fun is very realistic.

This is a game, if something is spammed its not because its good its because its an exploit

Wrong

Realism lol this is sci fi futuristic stuff, it can repair itself because nanomachines

OP is wrong tho

Realism is not a must

Yes they should, my gun is bigger than you goo bag

No they cant, current MBT can survive mulitple RPG attacks

I did and OP is wrong

No its not

Proto AV is fine, it can easily kill tanks, stop shooting when the tank is glowing unless you have a FG which can cause enough damage to stop regen

Asking for realism in a game? okay then FG shouldnt exist because lolrealism, lolno tanks speed are fine and to use realism they can go pretty fast in RL, ask for webs or EWAR instead of nerf

You're entitled to your opinion. I respect that. Luckily you are in a minority.

Games don't need to be real, but there needs to be some sense of realism to keep it interesting. If you shot your weapon and your bullets went in the opposite direction, you probably wouldn't play very long.

Here is a video of a real tank driver and their view from inside the tank: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyPgHwB82xY

FYI, it takes one hidden mine, or one well placed remote explosive, or one person with an RPG to disable a real tank. One grenade down the barrel of a tank will likely ruin it and make it un-fireable. I'm not asking for this game to be realistic. But God mode tanks are not fun for anyone unless they are in the tank.

Here is a video of a small hand made explosive destroying a tank: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C7Ec77YCkg

You want your easy win god-mode tank to be left alone. You even want FG removed because it's likely the only real threat you have (except other tanks).

I get it man. I have a kid. I hate taking away his favorite toy. But when he uses it to abuse his friends, well, sometimes a good parent has to make everyone play nice. Takahiro, you need a spanking. I hope CCP leaves some welts on your ass.

Wrong

Realism lol this is sci fi futuristic stuff, it can repair itself because nanomachines

OP is wrong tho

Realism is not a must

Yes they should, my gun is bigger than you goo bag

No they cant, current MBT can survive mulitple RPG attacks

I did and OP is wrong

No its not

With all the drama here, I debated for days whether I should even bother posting, but the recent HMG buff actually gave me some hope for this game again. So I'll give it one more go.

It's enough evidence for me to know that tanks are OP because of the insane amount of spamming them on the battlefield. But I know that isn't enough for everyone, so let me explain further. Even mercs that are terrible team players, have little to no gun game, and no situational awareness are still extremely successful in a tank. Now put that tank in the hands of a player who is good at all of those things, and you have something that's beyond OP.

Why is it OP? You have created something that is technically able to withstand enemy attacks from an entire team at times (since most aren't even AV). It also has the ability to flee the scene at a high rate of speed at the first sign of danger. And it has the highest killing power of anything on the map. Any one of these is enough to consider it OP by some standards, but you have given tanks all 3. Imagine if an infantryman could run 10x faster than a tank, shoot it down in less than a second, all while being attacked by 3 other tanks and just shrugging them off. That is exactly how infantry feel right now, and that is why so many people are quitting. This is a competitive fps, and it should be played like one.

There are some good suggestions out there, and here are a few:

Return AV weapons to 1.6 stats. As a vehicle driver myself, I know how ineffective all of these weapons are at there current state. They've been nerfed to the point that they are just wasted skill points. Any tanker will tell you that Proto AV weapons with level 5 proficiency and stacked damage mods should be ineffective to a tank, but you need to use common sense and do what you know is right for this game.

Slow tanks down.... way down. Who decided tanks should be so fast anyway? In what world do tanks charge around the battlefield into the middle of every dangerous situation? Thrusters on a tank?! Did someone put NOS on that thing? I know this game isn't real, but there should be at least some small sense of realism.

EMP grenades - completely disable a tank for a brief period of time, leaving it vulnerable, unable to attack, and unable to retreat. only effective against vehicles. It sounds awesome, but I wouldn't expect something like that to be added until like version 3.0 or something.

Vulnerable point - maybe a small window to shoot the driver through. Not as bad as the giant open convertible that the poor LAV drivers have to put up with, but something that even non AV infantry have a chance at fighting back.

Stacking hardners - I understand that the active hardner should make a tank almost invulnerable for a short period of time, but my gunnlogi has 3 stacked and I can run them continuously with no cool down to worry about. This is clearly not as intended and the tank should be limited to 1.

Limit tanks to 1 or 2 per side at a time. During 1.6 and before, 2 tanks on a battlefield working together made an extremely difficult fight. Now that they are OP, 7 tanks per side is not uncommon and is beyond ridiculous. I personally would go even farther to say that you should only be allowed to spawn 1 tank yourself during a match. So if you lose it, you will have to wait until the next match to spawn another and it gives others on your team a chance to call in their own. Tank spamming should not be allowed.

Raise the price of tanks. I don't like this one. it's obvious, but it doesn't solve anything. And it just gives tankers an excuse to justify being OP. I personally like the low isk cost and sp requirements as it gives even new players a chance to try things out without a huge investment.

Increase the spread of all large turrets. This would essentially make them less useful against infantry, but still useful against other tanks, vehicles, installations, etc. The turrets are currently dead on accurate even from across the map. I've been hit many times by a rail turret from so far away that I could barely see it. You can literally shoot a rail turret tank from the blue side red zone and hit LAVs on the red side red zone in most of these maps.

Infantry only battle options. It would work, but I'm certain no infantry would join the regular battles unless they were running with tankers.

Edit - added 2 more ideas:
Prolonged deployment time for tanks. Make a lead time of some kind, maybe 1 minute after calling in a tank for it to be deployed. This would almost completely eliminate tank spamming without nerfs or buffs. It would give AV players a chance to eliminate 1 tank at a time without having that tank replaced in 10 seconds. It would give ambush players and all infantry a chance to establish themselves before getting dominated by tanks. It also requires the tanker to invest time to be the most OP person on the map.

Symmetric decrease of fire power and defense of tanks. this would allow the same tank v tank battles while making them slightly less effective to everything else and more vulnerable to attacks. This is really just a nerf, but probably badly needed at this point.

And FYI, calling in another tank to deal with a tank still leaves an OP tank either way and is not really an appropriate solution, despite what tankers seem to believe.

Its not easy mode

AV is no longer easy mode

Its balanced mode

Well if you look at reality, the M1 Abrams that has been in use since just before the first gulf war is able to cruise at 60 mph over bumps and hills and can shoot VERY accurately while going at max speed... This post sounds like your just mad a 50 ton piece of equipment that is doing what it is supposed to do.... I suggest you find a good quiet corner and cryhard there for a while ok... Just saying....

It's balanced? lol. looks like about 4% so far agree with you. http://strawpoll.me/971802/