Reduce the rate and damage threshold that the shield/armor can repair for tanks.
create movement penalties for some of the modules damage mods, hardeners, shield extenders etc.( to create a sacrifice to movement)
increase the damage type downfalls for heavy turrets(to buff the turret role status)
Create a redline return to battle/kick system to eliminate rail tanks camping the redline all match.( specific to tanks make it like 4 mins to allow for calling it in, recalling it in the redline, restock in the redline. so like 4mins warning and then a 1-2 min final warning then kick.)

problem solved.

I agree with some of the OP suggestions and I took it to mean implement one or two and see how it goes. Here's a typical assault. A tank barrels into a scene guns blazing, every one on the other side runs and hides but one or two usually get taken out. If they have a swarm or forge they'll fire a few shots then the hardener comes on. While they're either hopelessly firing at the tank or waiting it out, the infantry roll out from behind the tank and start firing away. If by some miracle they're repelled and the hardener times-out the tank either resumes firing or races away at ludicrous speed just to start the process all over again. Meanwhile a lot of wasted ammo is used up while the tank enjoys unlimited ammo.

1. Slow them down.

2. Reduce the hardener time.

3. No ability to shoot while the hardener is activated.

4. Give tanks an ammo budget that can be reloaded at a vehicle depot.

Cheers

Just some thoughts. Cheers

3. All kinds of no. what would be the point of vehicles then?

I guess I was looking at the combo of nearly impenetrable defense, high fire rate and ability to escape at a ridiculously high speed. I as a FG have good firepower against an unhardened tank but will die with 1-2 shots by them and can't run to save my life, literally. Sometimes I want a hover-board slogging around in a heavy suit. As I mentioned though, I've had 2nd thoughts as a team can take down even a hardened tank driver that gets pinned. I think the novelty has worn off as I'm seeing a lot less tanks to destroy. Take it easy.

i thought ccp had already reduced movement speed of them?

they feel much slower now than when i was driving them on day1..

id say our current tanks r fine.. well mlt feels fine any ways...

now since hardeners and other such modules are cycled with if they worked like this u have 3 shield hardeners on a gunlogi.

instead of being able to cycle them. the second u activate 1 of the hardeners the rest activate at the same time. this means no more permanent hardened tanks.

which could mean an end to this tank stomping.


although the only times ive brought out a tank was when i was having an extremely hard time trying to push an objective. or when there was an enemy tank prowling about trying to farm kills...

repping isnt the problem... think of that like an endless light armor repair module that never turns off.. u can still negate the damges easily. although it doesnt feels as great as that temporary active light rep module..

EMP grenades - completely disable a tank for a brief period of time, leaving it vulnerable, unable to attack, and unable to retreat. only effective against vehicles. It sounds awesome, but I wouldn't expect something like that to be added until like version 3.0 or something.

Vulnerable point - maybe a small window to shoot the driver through. Not as bad as the giant open convertible that the poor LAV drivers have to put up with, but something that even non AV infantry have a chance at fighting back.

Uber +1 to those ideas, in all honesty. More so to the vulnerable point, than the EMP greande. Immobilizing a tank entirely as such would probably be a little too much. It'd just make it a fish in a barrel at that point. But as for the vulnerable point, I'm totes for it. Like...the window is a great idea, albeit small, or remote explosives could have a such effect that if they blow up underneath a tank, not only do they deal damage to the tank, but they can also break the tracks that the tanks roll on, therefore immobilizing the movement, but not the turret. And think, most people who use remote explosives drop them on crucial, and vital points in the map, specifically in the middle of the road. So if they immobilize that said tank in the middle of the road, next to an objective, then it turns out, you just made a deployed blaster/railgun/missle installation.
Edit: With that in mind, they can have as many hardeners as they want. If they can't move, I'm okay with a unremoveable speedbump in the middle of the road that can shoot at you.

ahh, finally. I was starting to wonder if anybody read past the first paragraph. lol.

EMP grenades could be too powerful, but they could also be pretty limited. You could limit infantry to carrying one (like thukkers), and make them only last 5 to 10 seconds. I can just imagine the computer voice saying, "system offline.... rebooting..." They could also be very short range, so you have to be up close to use them. So a tanker could either get out and try to shoot the attacker or rely on his own surrounding infantry to help him out. Teamwork is a concept very foreign to most tankers though, so they won't like that. Other than that, I don't feel bad if they get killed quickly because they quickly kill everything else on the map, so why shouldn't they?

The window is actually my favorite. Tanks get a perfect 3rd person birds eye view of everything and no weak spot. It doesn't seem logical to me. A small window would give any infantry a chance, albeit a small one, to fight back. That is the way it should be, in my opinion. It would make tanks think twice about rushing into a hot zone like they do now. I also think they should be forced to see out that window, like a real first person shooter - but the crying would never stop, so devs shouldn't bother.

Tanks would be fine with both of these if they actually played somewhat realistically and kept their distance from the enemy.

Math time.

Sica has 2650 shield and 1500 armor.

Proto swarms have 220 damage with 6 missiles, for a total of 1320 damage.

add in sica's 20% resistance to missiles, we get 1056 total damage.

x3 swarms is 3168 damage. that's assuming the 20% resistance applies to all damage. After the 2650 shield is gone, the damage gets a 20% bonus to damage. That's assuming no hardeners active on the sica, and no damage mods on the swarm launcher. Gunnlogi has same base stats, and one extra high slot.

I won't run figures with the hardener up, because you aren't supposed to attack when the hardener is up. The balance is actually pretty close to good right now. The issue is damage application. Returning AV to 1.6 levels would ruin vehicles (tanks aren't the only vehicle out there) because they have no chance to get away from swarms. Watch this video for further information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw

The damage nerf was because we only have standard vehicles right now. We can't balance proto weapons against proto vehicles that haven't been released, and won't be released for many months to come. Your swarms can deal killing damage to tanks, but the problem is how easy it is to escape that damage.

We should increase swarm missile speed, so that tanks have less time to find cover before they hit. But upping lock on range or raw damage output screws over LAVs and dropships along with tanks.

These are good ideas however implementing all of these would reduce tanks to 1.6 cheese again.

Considering that tanks are weaker then 1.6 when hardeners are off...if you have 1 and it goes off.

Instead of introducing a bunch of new things, we should adjust what is out there to resemble some kind of sanity. CCP balances things with a sledge hammer. Introducing new things to kill tanks will make AV overpowered again and we'll just flip-flop between one or the other being OP forever.

Yes tanks, with hardeners, are god-mode. <--- if this is the problem, this should be addressed.

What exists needs to be balanced without the introduction of new things, which themselves will need to be balanced.

The "wave" idea is stupid. Eve has a decade of experience at vehicle combat/tanking and Dust has learned NOTHING from any of that. The Eve system works...why is it so impossible to say "Hey look, that works really well...maybe we should do that."

Too many radical changes will just take tanks from being OP to being completely useless. We need to look at smaller steps.

1) Reduce tank spam by making Tanks less viable for people who donGÇÖt specialise in tanks.

Nerf vehicle health by 25%, but add the +5% HP for each level of shield and amour skill. This is a 25% nerf to people who donGÇÖt have vehicle skills, while not effecting anyone with Vehicle Armour and Shield skills maxed.

2) Buff Swarm Launcher slightly.
Buff lock range by 25m. 175 + 25 = 200m (was 400m in 1.6)
Buff missel damage by 30. 220 + 30 = 250 (was 330 in 1.6)

Then lets test AV against dedicated tankers without the AV getting swarmed by militia tanks. Once we assess the situation without all the clutter, then we can discuss what else needs to be done. Trying to fix everything in one step is how tanks became OP in the first place.


Also:
- I donGÇÖt like making Militia tanks more expensive. A new merc can invest half a million skill points in vehicles if they want to specialise in tanking, but they donGÇÖt start with a lot of ISK.

- I donGÇÖt like capping the tanks at 2. The first two proto Infantry who spawn will call in militia tanks, and then the 22 million skill point tanker who spawns in after will be forced to run around in a militia starter suit until one of the militia tanks are killed.

Prolonged deployment time for tanks. Make a lead time of some kind, maybe 1 minute after calling in a tank for it to be deployed. This would almost completely eliminate tank spamming without nerfs or buffs. It would give AV players a chance to eliminate 1 tank at a time without having that tank replaced in 10 seconds. It would give ambush players and all infantry a chance to establish themselves before getting dominated by tanks. It also requires the tanker to invest time to be the most OP person on the map.

Symmetric decrease of fire power and defense of tanks. this would allow the same tank v tank battles while making them slightly less effective to everything else and more vulnerable to attacks. This is really just a nerf, but probably badly needed at this point.

You would think, but most don't have the build you speak of. In addition, shields have built in 20% resistance to swarms. So with a hardner on, that's 80% resistance, So with continuous hardners, youre proto swarms are doing about 44 dmg per missile. When a tank passively heals shields at over 200 hp/sec (dont remember the actual number), it heals faster than you can hurt it.

It just seems logical to me that if you're going to make a weapon useless, just remove it from the game. CCP seems to be passive aggressive about it and just turns it into a paperweight for your collection.

Anyway, I'm tired of talking about swarms. I haven't used them in months, so doesn't bother me terribly. I do think it's a little unfair to the light suit AV players though.

i'm gonna keep saying nerfing tanks or buffing AV untill there is a standing dedicated AV force will only break tanks again.

large blasters could use a pass(too powerful against infantry),
swarms need a dumb fire(with av nade trigger)
and wp for damage needs to return.

but until those things are done tanks and av should be left be they will find balance and if it is still skewed after 3 months then tiny changes can be made, The main issue right now is that no one wants to do something other then what they have been doing right now, they are used to tanks not being relevant and so they behave in way that do not make sense in a game with functional tanks and then blame it on the tanks while refusing to adapt. I'm not saying get gud, i'm saying try something other then assualt type suit with assualt type gun, for once.

as for tankers who are complaining I can help but feel that you miss feeling like the only power house on the feild, I mean I can die 30 times in a match against 3 tanks but because I keep fielding tanks they will often win, I mean ground force stop being harassed as long as their is a threat on the field. Same goes with AV threats don't present your self to tanks cuase then they are done with you and move on make them work for it untill the are forced to leave then find where they ran to and do it again. eventually they will get so fed up with you they will stick around a little too long you will kill them, or they will recall their tank. ooohhhhhh wait you don care if your team wins you care bout your KDR......

Read the last line in the first post. And fyi, im a vehicle driver.

Go play World of Tanks Stinker Butt

i'm gonna keep saying nerfing tanks or buffing AV untill there is a standing dedicated AV force will only break tanks again...

that does some what make sense but what if they up the damage on swarm luachers say 250 per missile thats 1000 for basic swarms and prototype has 1500

then put the shields on tanks like what you out of suits put a delay on them but say 30 seconds and then restrict the hardeners you have down to 1 hardener per tank i know a few people put 2 or 3 on when one runs out they switch to anther one and wait for first one to cool down then restrict the speed of the tank down so its not faster then an LAV

i read a post a few days ago i liked the idea of where tanks LAVs and drop ships will have swarms on them

tanks have anti air craft but will need to give up a slot for an extra player to use the AA gun and drop ships have anti vehicle on them i was thinking maybe an extra turret that comes out the bottom of the drop ship to give it best possible chance

People seem generally against the idea of buffing swarms. I guess tankers don't feel it's fair that they should have to die to swarms. I don't really get it, but I give up.

I like the idea you mentioned - anti aircraft on tanks and vice versa. something for LAVs too. good idea

I am not very sure what you guys mean by the "window", but this is what I think

A tank should be the sum of its parts, its not like the entire tank is one **** of metal.
A window should be like the door in which you enter a tank, maybe from behind.
A well placed RE or missile file should be able to blow up the window/door.
Even if the tank repairs to full health the door would remain open.
Maybe I am asking for too much as this game's engine is supposedly outdated.
I believe a PS3 game should be able to do this.

Also no matter what anyone says, TANKS ARE TOO FAST.
They should be like Heavys
They move like they are paperweight.
I said this before but tanks are doing ballet after their speed nerf
I saw two tanks on my team forming a triangle