DUST Search - Riddle me this - Gallente vs Amarr

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

Let us put the Amarr and Gallente suits under the microscope.

Both suits are "Armor Tanking" suits and are designed to utilize armor to its maximum effectiveness. Now in EVE, Gallente pilots focus on armor tanking but lean towards repairing while the Amarr armor tank but lean towards resistance and hardening (basically making a brick).

In DUST, it seems as if these tanking ideals were thrown out of the window and the tanking styles reversed.

The Amarr Assault has equal stats of 180/180 Shields/Armor while the Gallente get more armor at the start (sorry don't know the Gallente values, someone feel free to throw them up). From the get go this is already incorrect. As stated beforehand, Amarr are armor tankers that rely on hardeners and resistance plates and therefore should have more base armor on the suit. A better value for the Amarr Assault may be something like 130/220 to emphasize the fact that the Amarr rely on plates.

Another area where I feel that these suits have been reversed is slot layout. The Amarr Assault ADV is 2/2 H/L - Proto, 3/3 HL. The Gallente on the other hand I believe either has 3 or 4 lows at ADV and either 4 or 5 at proto. Ok timeout, lets think here. The Gallente Assault already gets a higher armor value and then on top of it gets more low slots than the Amarr which is the pure armor tanking faction. Yep....totally makes sense. Anyone with half a mind would stick plates in all of those lows and make a Gallentean brick of doom instead of reps which leads to higher armor values than the Amarr...yeah you know, the resistance plate/hardener tanking faction.

BUT WAIT AISHA, THE AMARR HAVE MORE SHIELDS LEADING TO MORE EHP!!!

Yes, the Amarr does have a higher base shield value, BUT in the end if you start adding things up, EHP differences are very marginal. Both Amarr and Gallente Proto Assaults can push EHP's in the 800 - 900 ranges. At the ADV tier, the EHP's between all of the racial suits are pretty similar depending on how you fit your suit (brick tank). This goes on to lead me to my final point.....

THE AMARRIAN SPEED PENALTY

Yes, that one stat that no DEV, CPM member, DUST'er, or even Morgan Freeman himself can explain - the Amarrian speed penalty. As stated above, EHP's are marginal between the suits depending on how you set up your tank yet the Amarr is the only suit in the game that gets a speed penalty. Now this would make perfect sense if CCP set up the Amarr to be armor plate tankers in DUST and used my hypothetical value of 130/220, but they didn't. CCP, I already know what you're thinking "but the Amarr have more EHP, their shield and armor values are equal!" CCP, sit down and give it the once over - EHP values between suits if properly tanked come out to around the same values and you slapped a speed penalty on one suit because you "perceived" that they will have more EHP. Meanwhile the Gallente can stack plate upon plate in their plentiful lows (which the Amarr should have) and may move at say 6.57 m/s - if the Amarr stacked the same amount, they would probably sprint at 6.02 m/s or slower. The slower Amarr suits was a mechanic from EVE you tried to port to DUST, but in DUST it just doesn't make sense.

*Yes you smart cookies out there, I'm aware that the Amarr have more base stamina and a faster stamina regen, but that is not a sensible reason as to why they have a speed penalty.*

Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.

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Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2281	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:24:00 - [1] - Quote Let us put the Amarr and Gallente suits under the microscope. Both suits are "Armor Tanking" suits and are designed to utilize armor to its maximum effectiveness. Now in EVE, Gallente pilots focus on armor tanking but lean towards repairing while the Amarr armor tank but lean towards resistance and hardening (basically making a brick). In DUST, it seems as if these tanking ideals were thrown out of the window and the tanking styles reversed. The Amarr Assault has equal stats of 180/180 Shields/Armor while the Gallente get more armor at the start (sorry don't know the Gallente values, someone feel free to throw them up). From the get go this is already incorrect. As stated beforehand, Amarr are armor tankers that rely on hardeners and resistance plates and therefore should have more base armor on the suit. A better value for the Amarr Assault may be something like 130/220 to emphasize the fact that the Amarr rely on plates. Another area where I feel that these suits have been reversed is slot layout. The Amarr Assault ADV is 2/2 H/L - Proto, 3/3 HL. The Gallente on the other hand I believe either has 3 or 4 lows at ADV and either 4 or 5 at proto. Ok timeout, lets think here. The Gallente Assault already gets a higher armor value and then on top of it gets more low slots than the Amarr which is the pure armor tanking faction. Yep....totally makes sense. Anyone with half a mind would stick plates in all of those lows and make a Gallentean brick of doom instead of reps which leads to higher armor values than the Amarr...yeah you know, the resistance plate/hardener tanking faction. BUT WAIT AISHA, THE AMARR HAVE MORE SHIELDS LEADING TO MORE EHP!!! Yes, the Amarr does have a higher base shield value, BUT in the end if you start adding things up, EHP differences are very marginal. Both Amarr and Gallente Proto Assaults can push EHP's in the 800 - 900 ranges. At the ADV tier, the EHP's between all of the racial suits are pretty similar depending on how you fit your suit (brick tank). This goes on to lead me to my final point..... THE AMARRIAN SPEED PENALTY Yes, that one stat that no DEV, CPM member, DUST'er, or even Morgan Freeman himself can explain - the Amarrian speed penalty. As stated above, EHP's are marginal between the suits depending on how you set up your tank yet the Amarr is the only suit in the game that gets a speed penalty. Now this would make perfect sense if CCP set up the Amarr to be armor plate tankers in DUST and used my hypothetical value of 130/220, but they didn't. CCP, I already know what you're thinking "but the Amarr have more EHP, their shield and armor values are equal!" CCP, sit down and give it the once over - EHP values between suits if properly tanked come out to around the same values and you slapped a speed penalty on one suit because you "perceived" that they will have more EHP. Meanwhile the Gallente can stack plate upon plate in their plentiful lows (which the Amarr should have) and may move at say 6.57 m/s - if the Amarr stacked the same amount, they would probably sprint at 6.02 m/s or slower. The slower Amarr suits was a mechanic from EVE you tried to port to DUST, but in DUST it just doesn't make sense. Yes you smart cookies out there, I'm aware that the Amarr have more base stamina and a faster stamina regen, but that is not a sensible reason as to why they have a speed penalty. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 875	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:28:00 - [2] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Let us put the Amarr and Gallente suits under the microscope. Both suits are "Armor Tanking" suits and are designed to utilize armor to its maximum effectiveness. Now in EVE, Gallente pilots focus on armor tanking but lean towards repairing while the Amarr armor tank but lean towards resistance and hardening (basically making a brick). In DUST, it seems as if these tanking ideals were thrown out of the window and the tanking styles reversed. The Amarr Assault has equal stats of 180/180 Shields/Armor while the Gallente get more armor at the start (sorry don't know the Gallente values, someone feel free to throw them up). From the get go this is already incorrect. As stated beforehand, Amarr are armor tankers that rely on hardeners and resistance plates and therefore should have more base armor on the suit. A better value for the Amarr Assault may be something like 130/220 to emphasize the fact that the Amarr rely on plates. Another area where I feel that these suits have been reversed is slot layout. The Amarr Assault ADV is 2/2 H/L - Proto, 3/3 HL. The Gallente on the other hand I believe either has 3 or 4 lows at ADV and either 4 or 5 at proto. Ok timeout, lets think here. The Gallente Assault already gets a higher armor value and then on top of it gets more low slots than the Amarr which is the pure armor tanking faction. Yep....totally makes sense. Anyone with half a mind would stick plates in all of those lows and make a Gallentean brick of doom instead of reps which leads to higher armor values than the Amarr...yeah you know, the resistance plate/hardener tanking faction. BUT WAIT AISHA, THE AMARR HAVE MORE SHIELDS LEADING TO MORE EHP!!! Yes, the Amarr does have a higher base shield value, BUT in the end if you start adding things up, EHP differences are very marginal. Both Amarr and Gallente Proto Assaults can push EHP's in the 800 - 900 ranges. At the ADV tier, the EHP's between all of the racial suits are pretty similar depending on how you fit your suit (brick tank). This goes on to lead me to my final point..... THE AMARRIAN SPEED PENALTY Yes, that one stat that no DEV, CPM member, DUST'er, or even Morgan Freeman himself can explain - the Amarrian speed penalty. As stated above, EHP's are marginal between the suits depending on how you set up your tank yet the Amarr is the only suit in the game that gets a speed penalty. Now this would make perfect sense if CCP set up the Amarr to be armor plate tankers in DUST and used my hypothetical value of 130/220, but they didn't. CCP, I already know what you're thinking "but the Amarr have more EHP, their shield and armor values are equal!" CCP, sit down and give it the once over - EHP values between suits if properly tanked come out to around the same values and you slapped a speed penalty on one suit because you "perceived" that they will have more EHP. Meanwhile the Gallente can stack plate upon plate in their plentiful lows (which the Amarr should have) and may move at say 6.57 m/s - if the Amarr stacked the same amount, they would probably sprint at 6.02 m/s or slower. The slower Amarr suits was a mechanic from EVE you tried to port to DUST, but in DUST it just doesn't make sense. Yes you smart cookies out there, I'm aware that the Amarr have more base stamina and a faster stamina regen, but that is not a sensible reason as to why they have a speed penalty. The Amarr spend many years practicing the art of Jogging. They set a maintainable pace and keep at it, working ever onwards in the glory of their god. They are not slow, but merely persistent. Really, they lose a slot and are slower. But, you can make some impossible fits on them thar suits. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 733	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:30:00 - [3] - Quote When active hardners come in, maybe they will change it. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1085	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:46:00 - [4] - Quote Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. You can't just compare two factionsg technology.You need to compare all 4. Amarr have dual tank and low speed. Minmatar have speed and less dual tank. Gallente have speed but armor dependancy. Caldari have shield dependancy and are slower. That's why Minmatar are CQC, Caldari long range, Gallente mid range, Amarr mid to long range. Its 360 degree balancing. But until all the racial content arrives, its throwing wrenches into the works.
Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2283	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:49:00 - [5] - Quote 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. You can't just compare two factionsg technology.You need to compare all 4. Amarr have dual tank and low speed. Minmatar have speed and less dual tank. Gallente have speed but armor dependancy. Caldari have shield dependancy and are slower. That's why Minmatar are CQC, Caldari long range, Gallente mid range, Amarr mid to long range. Its 360 degree balancing. But until all the racial content arrives, its throwing wrenches into the works. Yes I get that, but did you read where I said all four EHP's come out relatively the same if you properly tank the suits? Amarr get a speed penalty and they have no more EHP than the other three variants. I'm not saying make them as fast as Minmatar suits, but I am saying the speed penalty just appears to be "slapped on," it's just there... "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1928	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:58:00 - [6] - Quote Also you can't just look at the single assault suit. The dualish tank of the Amarr means that it is sort of like having resist armor. If you have to shoot through shield, than the weapons that are good against armor have to go a bit through things with a resistance to shield. Also, the gallente logi has an additional equipment slot at the PRO level, meaning it would be easier for him to carry a repair tool, making them a better logi+assault armor team than an amarr logi+assault. The amarr logi+assault would likely hit a bit harder.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 250	Posted - 2013.12.18 16:04:00 - [7] - Quote Compare the Amarr and Gallente's PG/CPU... Gallente PRO Assault: 60 PG / 300 CPU Amarr PRO Assault: 70 PG / 350 CPU While they are technically able to fit less modules, more of those modules can be prototype due to the extra PG/CPU. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2703	Posted - 2013.12.18 16:30:00 - [8] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Compare the Amarr and Gallente's PG/CPU... Gallente PRO Assault: 60 PG / 300 CPU Amarr PRO Assault: 70 PG / 350 CPU These values are base. With CPU and PG skills maxed: Gallente PRO Assault: 75 PG / 375 CPU Amarr PRO Assault: 87 PG / 437 CPU The Amarr assault suit nets another 12 PG / 62 CPU These values don't include the +5% PG/CPU from Dropsuit Upgrades V... because I am bad at maths. While they are technically able to fit less modules, more of those modules can be prototype due to the extra PG/CPU. The fitting capabilities of the Amarr Assault are phenomenal. Unless most of the stuff I fit is heavy on one or the other, I very rarely run out of CPU or PG. And that stamina is so satisfying. Minmatar might be fast, but once their stamina is out, they may as well be a commando. No.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2703	Posted - 2013.12.18 16:31:00 - [9] - Quote To the OP: EVE is not Dust. Dust is not EVE. No.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:19:00 - [10] - Quote I mostly agree with the OP. To Chunky: You have an extra slot on the other suits, this means you can throw a CPU or PG mod in there. Not only that but amarrian weapons take the most CPU and PG out of the prototype weapons. The gallente may have less fitting but they get a 25% reduction to fitting hybrid weaponry, so after they fit the weaponry they are designed to use. To OP: Actually no matter what type of tanking you do, 1 extra slot > 30 hp. The amarrian suits always have a lower eHP ceiling than a gallente suit, while always being slower, and having less slots. Hell sometimes the amarrain suit has a lower eHP ceiling than the caldari suits. To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 251	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:23:00 - [11] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on Gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because Amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. Amarr ships in Eve get passive bonuses when using weaponry that align with their race's weapon system (Amarr get bonuses with lasers, Gallente with drones and hybrid weapons, etc.) What bonuses, in Dust, force Amarr to use laser weapons? "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 720	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:30:00 - [12] - Quote + 1 to the OP, it does get annoying trying to waddle from place to place at heavy-like speeds in my Amarr logi suit (if a kin cat was a high I would be very happy). My heavy friend I'm repping should be a little easier to follow! @Magnus: +1 for the maths and another +1 for your sig. I have solo'd in Amarr FW and, yeah, I'm not nearly badass enough to do much more than top the board of awoxing blueberries as we maybe get 75% of the opposing MCC shields knocked off before we lose! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5012	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:38:00 - [13] - Quote 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. You can't just compare two factionsg technology.You need to compare all 4. Amarr have dual tank and low speed. Minmatar have speed and less dual tank. Gallente have speed but armor dependancy. Caldari have shield dependancy and are slower. That's why Minmatar are CQC, Caldari long range, Gallente mid range, Amarr mid to long range. Its 360 degree balancing. But until all the racial content arrives, its throwing wrenches into the works. Since when did Amarr dual tank? Never seen a dual tanking apocalypse in my life.... To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:39:00 - [14] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on Gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because Amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. Amarr ships in Eve get passive bonuses when using weaponry that align with their race's weapon system. Amarr get bonuses with lasers, Gallente with drones and hybrid weapons, Minmatar with projectile, Caldari with missile and hybrid. What prevents them from using a combat rifle, rail rifle, plasma cannon, or any other light weapon for that matter? Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust. Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up. Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust. Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor. caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting. As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 251	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:41:00 - [15] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust. Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up. Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust. Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor. caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting. As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings. I realized this shortly after I submitted my contribution. I have since edited my response. Ripley Riley wrote: The difference between the lowest rifle (combat rifle) and the highest rifle (laser rifle) CPU is 11... The Amarr PG/CPU net bonus is 62... that still means Amarr using laser rifles are gaining 51 more CPU than Minmatar dropsuits. We aren't even considering the Light Weapon Operation skill (3% reduction to CPU per level, 15% reduce when maxed) would reduce the CPU cost of high CPU weapons more than low CPU weapons. Also, I am fairly sure that the PRO laser rifle has a PG of 10, not 20. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 556	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:43:00 - [16] - Quote 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. Correction: DUST is currently 'You-better-be-using-this-or-you-are-going-to-have-an-disadvantage'. You know rock, paper, scissors is balanced, dust is not.
Your Absolut End SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 315	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:51:00 - [17] - Quote major problem is you are using an assault suit. Logi is the secret codeword for ++ber-assault. we can start flaming over other suits as soon as assaults are the most used suit for killing. another one bites the Dust... Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2290	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:52:00 - [18] - Quote I really wish that the DEVs would take a look at this at the least. It is a pretty big problem when the Amarr suits are PERCEIVED to have a higher eHP value but really have a lower or around the same eHP cap as the other racial variants of suits and due to that PERCEPTION have an unfair speed penalty. @Your Absolut End Already have you beat - I have both Prototype Amarr Assault and Amarr Logistics. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 252	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:58:00 - [19] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I really wish that the DEVs would take a look at this at the least. I may be playing devil's advocate here, but I actually agree with you: Amarr suits are not competitive compared to the same tier. In Eve, the poor agility and max speed of the Amarr ships is an inconvenience. In Dust, being less mobile is crippling. I hate seeing the rest of my squad speed pass me when we are taking an objective or rushing a front. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2294	Posted - 2013.12.18 19:08:00 - [20] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: I really wish that the DEVs would take a look at this at the least. I may be playing devil's advocate here, but I actually agree with you: Amarr suits are not competitive compared to the same tier. In Eve, the poor agility and max speed of the Amarr ships is an inconvenience. In Dust, being less mobile is crippling. I hate seeing the rest of my squad speed pass me when we are taking an objective or rushing a front. This hits it right on the head. In EVE, as you said, being slow is just a mere inconvenience - the Amarr ships can still dish out some punishing damage. In DUST, being slow just equates to getting your ass kicked no matter if it is close, medium, or long range and it doesn't help that we Amarr actually have a lower eHP cap than all other factions. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor

Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.12.18 19:08:00 - [21] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust. Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up. Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust. Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor. caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting. As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings. I realized this shortly after I submitted my contribution. I have since edited my response. Ripley Riley wrote: The difference between the lowest rifle (combat rifle) and the highest rifle (laser rifle) CPU is 11... The Amarr PG/CPU net bonus is 62... that still means Amarr using laser rifles are gaining 51 more CPU than Minmatar dropsuits. We aren't even considering the Light Weapon Operation skill (3% reduction to CPU per level, 15% reduce when maxed) would reduce the CPU cost of high CPU weapons more than low CPU weapons. Also, I am fairly sure that the PRO laser rifle has a PG of 10, not 20. Right now the ONLY weapon that has racial parity is the normal rifle variants (assault/combat/rail/scrambler) so it is the only reasonable weapon to use as for comparison. The fittings for the proto scrambler rifle is the one I chose to maintain an objective comparison. Proto scrambler rifle has a PG of 20. The minmatar assault has 320 vs 350 for the amarr (CPU wise) which becomes 416 CPU and 455 CPU respectively, meaning the amarrian suit ends up having a 28 CPU advantage when taking racial rifles into account (39 CPU then -11 CPU). ( a 6% CPU advantage for amarr) Of course this argument merits a look at PG aswell when you compare suits, the minmatar having 64 PG (83.2 w/ skills) and the amarr having 70 (91 w/skills). The amarr weapon uses 12 more PG, meaning that the amarrian suit is at a PG DISADVANTAGE (a 5% PG advantage for the minmatar). Now this would look relatively balanced if the minmaatar suit didn't have an extra slot with which it can fit a PG or CPU mod, or whatever. The 50 CPU advantage you quoted must have meant you were using gallente when you said minmatar. The gallente suit is 390 vs 455 CPU (amarr) with max skills, then taking weapons into account it has roughly 24 less CPU (5% advantage amarr) and 11 more PG( 12% advantage gallente). You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1089	Posted - 2013.12.18 19:45:00 - [22] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. You can't just compare two factionsg technology.You need to compare all 4. Amarr have dual tank and low speed. Minmatar have speed and less dual tank. Gallente have speed but armor dependancy. Caldari have shield dependancy and are slower. That's why Minmatar are CQC, Caldari long range, Gallente mid range, Amarr mid to long range. Its 360 degree balancing. But until all the racial content arrives, its throwing wrenches into the works. Yes I get that, but did you read where I said all four EHP's come out relatively the same if you properly tank the suits? Amarr get a speed penalty and they have no more EHP than the other three variants. I'm not saying make them as fast as Minmatar suits, but I am saying the speed penalty just appears to be "slapped on," it's just there... total EHP doesn't matter. Its about where you tank that HP. A Gallente has 900HP, but it's all in armor. Making my SCR work harder, but a hot knife through butter for the CR... get it?
Aisha Ctarl Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2298	Posted - 2013.12.19 04:25:00 - [23] - Quote Bump to keep this alive for devs to see. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Jillian Chastot Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 6	Posted - 2013.12.19 04:38:00 - [24] - Quote "Now in EVE, Gallente pilots focus on armor tanking but lean towards repairing" Real Gallente hull tank
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1298	Posted - 2013.12.19 04:54:00 - [25] - Quote Had the same thought a while back the answer I got was we get to run longer -_- "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Jillian Chastot Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 6	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:06:00 - [26] - Quote ._. what?
Sgt Buttscratch 1183	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:08:00 - [27] - Quote Aw came hear thinking we were getting challenged by the cheese wedge headed scrubs I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1025	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:10:00 - [28] - Quote without the rest of the suits it doesn't even matter what problems exist with the current balance of suits. let's hope someone is paying attention for the next round of suit bonuses. CCP Rise? CCP Fozzy? i'm looking at you.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 267	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:13:00 - [29] - Quote RKKR wrote: 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. Correction: DUST is currently 'You-better-be-using-this-or-you-are-going-to-have-an-disadvantage'. You know rock, paper, scissors is balanced, dust is not. Rock is OP.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 267	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:16:00 - [30] - Quote I don't agree with everything the OP said. What I would like to see is the REASONS for the differences between the suits. WHY did CCP decide that Amarr dual tanks? WHY did CCP decide that Logis should be better than everything else? WHY.... For all we know that got a ******** squirrel (do they have squirrels in Iceland and China?) to decide what suit got what. If they tell us the reasons then we can tell them how kitten stupid they are and maybe we can make some progress towards balance.



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