DUST Search - Riddle me this - Gallente vs Amarr

All Channels

General Discussions

Riddle me this - Gallente vs Amarr

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2281	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:24:00 - [1] - Quote Let us put the Amarr and Gallente suits under the microscope. Both suits are "Armor Tanking" suits and are designed to utilize armor to its maximum effectiveness. Now in EVE, Gallente pilots focus on armor tanking but lean towards repairing while the Amarr armor tank but lean towards resistance and hardening (basically making a brick). In DUST, it seems as if these tanking ideals were thrown out of the window and the tanking styles reversed. The Amarr Assault has equal stats of 180/180 Shields/Armor while the Gallente get more armor at the start (sorry don't know the Gallente values, someone feel free to throw them up). From the get go this is already incorrect. As stated beforehand, Amarr are armor tankers that rely on hardeners and resistance plates and therefore should have more base armor on the suit. A better value for the Amarr Assault may be something like 130/220 to emphasize the fact that the Amarr rely on plates. Another area where I feel that these suits have been reversed is slot layout. The Amarr Assault ADV is 2/2 H/L - Proto, 3/3 HL. The Gallente on the other hand I believe either has 3 or 4 lows at ADV and either 4 or 5 at proto. Ok timeout, lets think here. The Gallente Assault already gets a higher armor value and then on top of it gets more low slots than the Amarr which is the pure armor tanking faction. Yep....totally makes sense. Anyone with half a mind would stick plates in all of those lows and make a Gallentean brick of doom instead of reps which leads to higher armor values than the Amarr...yeah you know, the resistance plate/hardener tanking faction. BUT WAIT AISHA, THE AMARR HAVE MORE SHIELDS LEADING TO MORE EHP!!! Yes, the Amarr does have a higher base shield value, BUT in the end if you start adding things up, EHP differences are very marginal. Both Amarr and Gallente Proto Assaults can push EHP's in the 800 - 900 ranges. At the ADV tier, the EHP's between all of the racial suits are pretty similar depending on how you fit your suit (brick tank). This goes on to lead me to my final point..... THE AMARRIAN SPEED PENALTY Yes, that one stat that no DEV, CPM member, DUST'er, or even Morgan Freeman himself can explain - the Amarrian speed penalty. As stated above, EHP's are marginal between the suits depending on how you set up your tank yet the Amarr is the only suit in the game that gets a speed penalty. Now this would make perfect sense if CCP set up the Amarr to be armor plate tankers in DUST and used my hypothetical value of 130/220, but they didn't. CCP, I already know what you're thinking "but the Amarr have more EHP, their shield and armor values are equal!" CCP, sit down and give it the once over - EHP values between suits if properly tanked come out to around the same values and you slapped a speed penalty on one suit because you "perceived" that they will have more EHP. Meanwhile the Gallente can stack plate upon plate in their plentiful lows (which the Amarr should have) and may move at say 6.57 m/s - if the Amarr stacked the same amount, they would probably sprint at 6.02 m/s or slower. The slower Amarr suits was a mechanic from EVE you tried to port to DUST, but in DUST it just doesn't make sense. Yes you smart cookies out there, I'm aware that the Amarr have more base stamina and a faster stamina regen, but that is not a sensible reason as to why they have a speed penalty. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 875	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:28:00 - [2] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Let us put the Amarr and Gallente suits under the microscope. Both suits are "Armor Tanking" suits and are designed to utilize armor to its maximum effectiveness. Now in EVE, Gallente pilots focus on armor tanking but lean towards repairing while the Amarr armor tank but lean towards resistance and hardening (basically making a brick). In DUST, it seems as if these tanking ideals were thrown out of the window and the tanking styles reversed. The Amarr Assault has equal stats of 180/180 Shields/Armor while the Gallente get more armor at the start (sorry don't know the Gallente values, someone feel free to throw them up). From the get go this is already incorrect. As stated beforehand, Amarr are armor tankers that rely on hardeners and resistance plates and therefore should have more base armor on the suit. A better value for the Amarr Assault may be something like 130/220 to emphasize the fact that the Amarr rely on plates. Another area where I feel that these suits have been reversed is slot layout. The Amarr Assault ADV is 2/2 H/L - Proto, 3/3 HL. The Gallente on the other hand I believe either has 3 or 4 lows at ADV and either 4 or 5 at proto. Ok timeout, lets think here. The Gallente Assault already gets a higher armor value and then on top of it gets more low slots than the Amarr which is the pure armor tanking faction. Yep....totally makes sense. Anyone with half a mind would stick plates in all of those lows and make a Gallentean brick of doom instead of reps which leads to higher armor values than the Amarr...yeah you know, the resistance plate/hardener tanking faction. BUT WAIT AISHA, THE AMARR HAVE MORE SHIELDS LEADING TO MORE EHP!!! Yes, the Amarr does have a higher base shield value, BUT in the end if you start adding things up, EHP differences are very marginal. Both Amarr and Gallente Proto Assaults can push EHP's in the 800 - 900 ranges. At the ADV tier, the EHP's between all of the racial suits are pretty similar depending on how you fit your suit (brick tank). This goes on to lead me to my final point..... THE AMARRIAN SPEED PENALTY Yes, that one stat that no DEV, CPM member, DUST'er, or even Morgan Freeman himself can explain - the Amarrian speed penalty. As stated above, EHP's are marginal between the suits depending on how you set up your tank yet the Amarr is the only suit in the game that gets a speed penalty. Now this would make perfect sense if CCP set up the Amarr to be armor plate tankers in DUST and used my hypothetical value of 130/220, but they didn't. CCP, I already know what you're thinking "but the Amarr have more EHP, their shield and armor values are equal!" CCP, sit down and give it the once over - EHP values between suits if properly tanked come out to around the same values and you slapped a speed penalty on one suit because you "perceived" that they will have more EHP. Meanwhile the Gallente can stack plate upon plate in their plentiful lows (which the Amarr should have) and may move at say 6.57 m/s - if the Amarr stacked the same amount, they would probably sprint at 6.02 m/s or slower. The slower Amarr suits was a mechanic from EVE you tried to port to DUST, but in DUST it just doesn't make sense. Yes you smart cookies out there, I'm aware that the Amarr have more base stamina and a faster stamina regen, but that is not a sensible reason as to why they have a speed penalty. The Amarr spend many years practicing the art of Jogging. They set a maintainable pace and keep at it, working ever onwards in the glory of their god. They are not slow, but merely persistent. Really, they lose a slot and are slower. But, you can make some impossible fits on them thar suits. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 733	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:30:00 - [3] - Quote When active hardners come in, maybe they will change it. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1085	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:46:00 - [4] - Quote Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. You can't just compare two factionsg technology.You need to compare all 4. Amarr have dual tank and low speed. Minmatar have speed and less dual tank. Gallente have speed but armor dependancy. Caldari have shield dependancy and are slower. That's why Minmatar are CQC, Caldari long range, Gallente mid range, Amarr mid to long range. Its 360 degree balancing. But until all the racial content arrives, its throwing wrenches into the works.
Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2283	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:49:00 - [5] - Quote 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. You can't just compare two factionsg technology.You need to compare all 4. Amarr have dual tank and low speed. Minmatar have speed and less dual tank. Gallente have speed but armor dependancy. Caldari have shield dependancy and are slower. That's why Minmatar are CQC, Caldari long range, Gallente mid range, Amarr mid to long range. Its 360 degree balancing. But until all the racial content arrives, its throwing wrenches into the works. Yes I get that, but did you read where I said all four EHP's come out relatively the same if you properly tank the suits? Amarr get a speed penalty and they have no more EHP than the other three variants. I'm not saying make them as fast as Minmatar suits, but I am saying the speed penalty just appears to be "slapped on," it's just there... "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1928	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:58:00 - [6] - Quote Also you can't just look at the single assault suit. The dualish tank of the Amarr means that it is sort of like having resist armor. If you have to shoot through shield, than the weapons that are good against armor have to go a bit through things with a resistance to shield. Also, the gallente logi has an additional equipment slot at the PRO level, meaning it would be easier for him to carry a repair tool, making them a better logi+assault armor team than an amarr logi+assault. The amarr logi+assault would likely hit a bit harder.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 250	Posted - 2013.12.18 16:04:00 - [7] - Quote Compare the Amarr and Gallente's PG/CPU... Gallente PRO Assault: 60 PG / 300 CPU Amarr PRO Assault: 70 PG / 350 CPU While they are technically able to fit less modules, more of those modules can be prototype due to the extra PG/CPU. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2703	Posted - 2013.12.18 16:30:00 - [8] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Compare the Amarr and Gallente's PG/CPU... Gallente PRO Assault: 60 PG / 300 CPU Amarr PRO Assault: 70 PG / 350 CPU These values are base. With CPU and PG skills maxed: Gallente PRO Assault: 75 PG / 375 CPU Amarr PRO Assault: 87 PG / 437 CPU The Amarr assault suit nets another 12 PG / 62 CPU These values don't include the +5% PG/CPU from Dropsuit Upgrades V... because I am bad at maths. While they are technically able to fit less modules, more of those modules can be prototype due to the extra PG/CPU. The fitting capabilities of the Amarr Assault are phenomenal. Unless most of the stuff I fit is heavy on one or the other, I very rarely run out of CPU or PG. And that stamina is so satisfying. Minmatar might be fast, but once their stamina is out, they may as well be a commando. No.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2703	Posted - 2013.12.18 16:31:00 - [9] - Quote To the OP: EVE is not Dust. Dust is not EVE. No.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:19:00 - [10] - Quote I mostly agree with the OP. To Chunky: You have an extra slot on the other suits, this means you can throw a CPU or PG mod in there. Not only that but amarrian weapons take the most CPU and PG out of the prototype weapons. The gallente may have less fitting but they get a 25% reduction to fitting hybrid weaponry, so after they fit the weaponry they are designed to use. To OP: Actually no matter what type of tanking you do, 1 extra slot > 30 hp. The amarrian suits always have a lower eHP ceiling than a gallente suit, while always being slower, and having less slots. Hell sometimes the amarrain suit has a lower eHP ceiling than the caldari suits. To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 251	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:23:00 - [11] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on Gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because Amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. Amarr ships in Eve get passive bonuses when using weaponry that align with their race's weapon system (Amarr get bonuses with lasers, Gallente with drones and hybrid weapons, etc.) What bonuses, in Dust, force Amarr to use laser weapons? "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 720	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:30:00 - [12] - Quote + 1 to the OP, it does get annoying trying to waddle from place to place at heavy-like speeds in my Amarr logi suit (if a kin cat was a high I would be very happy). My heavy friend I'm repping should be a little easier to follow! @Magnus: +1 for the maths and another +1 for your sig. I have solo'd in Amarr FW and, yeah, I'm not nearly badass enough to do much more than top the board of awoxing blueberries as we maybe get 75% of the opposing MCC shields knocked off before we lose! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5012	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:38:00 - [13] - Quote 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. You can't just compare two factionsg technology.You need to compare all 4. Amarr have dual tank and low speed. Minmatar have speed and less dual tank. Gallente have speed but armor dependancy. Caldari have shield dependancy and are slower. That's why Minmatar are CQC, Caldari long range, Gallente mid range, Amarr mid to long range. Its 360 degree balancing. But until all the racial content arrives, its throwing wrenches into the works. Since when did Amarr dual tank? Never seen a dual tanking apocalypse in my life.... To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:39:00 - [14] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on Gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because Amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. Amarr ships in Eve get passive bonuses when using weaponry that align with their race's weapon system. Amarr get bonuses with lasers, Gallente with drones and hybrid weapons, Minmatar with projectile, Caldari with missile and hybrid. What prevents them from using a combat rifle, rail rifle, plasma cannon, or any other light weapon for that matter? Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust. Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up. Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust. Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor. caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting. As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 251	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:41:00 - [15] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust. Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up. Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust. Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor. caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting. As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings. I realized this shortly after I submitted my contribution. I have since edited my response. Ripley Riley wrote: The difference between the lowest rifle (combat rifle) and the highest rifle (laser rifle) CPU is 11... The Amarr PG/CPU net bonus is 62... that still means Amarr using laser rifles are gaining 51 more CPU than Minmatar dropsuits. We aren't even considering the Light Weapon Operation skill (3% reduction to CPU per level, 15% reduce when maxed) would reduce the CPU cost of high CPU weapons more than low CPU weapons. Also, I am fairly sure that the PRO laser rifle has a PG of 10, not 20. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 556	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:43:00 - [16] - Quote 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. Correction: DUST is currently 'You-better-be-using-this-or-you-are-going-to-have-an-disadvantage'. You know rock, paper, scissors is balanced, dust is not.
Your Absolut End SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 315	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:51:00 - [17] - Quote major problem is you are using an assault suit. Logi is the secret codeword for ++ber-assault. we can start flaming over other suits as soon as assaults are the most used suit for killing. another one bites the Dust... Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2290	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:52:00 - [18] - Quote I really wish that the DEVs would take a look at this at the least. It is a pretty big problem when the Amarr suits are PERCEIVED to have a higher eHP value but really have a lower or around the same eHP cap as the other racial variants of suits and due to that PERCEPTION have an unfair speed penalty. @Your Absolut End Already have you beat - I have both Prototype Amarr Assault and Amarr Logistics. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 252	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:58:00 - [19] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I really wish that the DEVs would take a look at this at the least. I may be playing devil's advocate here, but I actually agree with you: Amarr suits are not competitive compared to the same tier. In Eve, the poor agility and max speed of the Amarr ships is an inconvenience. In Dust, being less mobile is crippling. I hate seeing the rest of my squad speed pass me when we are taking an objective or rushing a front. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2294	Posted - 2013.12.18 19:08:00 - [20] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: I really wish that the DEVs would take a look at this at the least. I may be playing devil's advocate here, but I actually agree with you: Amarr suits are not competitive compared to the same tier. In Eve, the poor agility and max speed of the Amarr ships is an inconvenience. In Dust, being less mobile is crippling. I hate seeing the rest of my squad speed pass me when we are taking an objective or rushing a front. This hits it right on the head. In EVE, as you said, being slow is just a mere inconvenience - the Amarr ships can still dish out some punishing damage. In DUST, being slow just equates to getting your ass kicked no matter if it is close, medium, or long range and it doesn't help that we Amarr actually have a lower eHP cap than all other factions. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor

Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.12.18 19:08:00 - [21] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust. Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up. Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust. Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor. caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting. As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings. I realized this shortly after I submitted my contribution. I have since edited my response. Ripley Riley wrote: The difference between the lowest rifle (combat rifle) and the highest rifle (laser rifle) CPU is 11... The Amarr PG/CPU net bonus is 62... that still means Amarr using laser rifles are gaining 51 more CPU than Minmatar dropsuits. We aren't even considering the Light Weapon Operation skill (3% reduction to CPU per level, 15% reduce when maxed) would reduce the CPU cost of high CPU weapons more than low CPU weapons. Also, I am fairly sure that the PRO laser rifle has a PG of 10, not 20. Right now the ONLY weapon that has racial parity is the normal rifle variants (assault/combat/rail/scrambler) so it is the only reasonable weapon to use as for comparison. The fittings for the proto scrambler rifle is the one I chose to maintain an objective comparison. Proto scrambler rifle has a PG of 20. The minmatar assault has 320 vs 350 for the amarr (CPU wise) which becomes 416 CPU and 455 CPU respectively, meaning the amarrian suit ends up having a 28 CPU advantage when taking racial rifles into account (39 CPU then -11 CPU). ( a 6% CPU advantage for amarr) Of course this argument merits a look at PG aswell when you compare suits, the minmatar having 64 PG (83.2 w/ skills) and the amarr having 70 (91 w/skills). The amarr weapon uses 12 more PG, meaning that the amarrian suit is at a PG DISADVANTAGE (a 5% PG advantage for the minmatar). Now this would look relatively balanced if the minmaatar suit didn't have an extra slot with which it can fit a PG or CPU mod, or whatever. The 50 CPU advantage you quoted must have meant you were using gallente when you said minmatar. The gallente suit is 390 vs 455 CPU (amarr) with max skills, then taking weapons into account it has roughly 24 less CPU (5% advantage amarr) and 11 more PG( 12% advantage gallente). You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1089	Posted - 2013.12.18 19:45:00 - [22] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. You can't just compare two factionsg technology.You need to compare all 4. Amarr have dual tank and low speed. Minmatar have speed and less dual tank. Gallente have speed but armor dependancy. Caldari have shield dependancy and are slower. That's why Minmatar are CQC, Caldari long range, Gallente mid range, Amarr mid to long range. Its 360 degree balancing. But until all the racial content arrives, its throwing wrenches into the works. Yes I get that, but did you read where I said all four EHP's come out relatively the same if you properly tank the suits? Amarr get a speed penalty and they have no more EHP than the other three variants. I'm not saying make them as fast as Minmatar suits, but I am saying the speed penalty just appears to be "slapped on," it's just there... total EHP doesn't matter. Its about where you tank that HP. A Gallente has 900HP, but it's all in armor. Making my SCR work harder, but a hot knife through butter for the CR... get it?
Aisha Ctarl Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2298	Posted - 2013.12.19 04:25:00 - [23] - Quote Bump to keep this alive for devs to see. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Jillian Chastot Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 6	Posted - 2013.12.19 04:38:00 - [24] - Quote "Now in EVE, Gallente pilots focus on armor tanking but lean towards repairing" Real Gallente hull tank
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1298	Posted - 2013.12.19 04:54:00 - [25] - Quote Had the same thought a while back the answer I got was we get to run longer -_- "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Jillian Chastot Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 6	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:06:00 - [26] - Quote ._. what?
Sgt Buttscratch 1183	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:08:00 - [27] - Quote Aw came hear thinking we were getting challenged by the cheese wedge headed scrubs I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1025	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:10:00 - [28] - Quote without the rest of the suits it doesn't even matter what problems exist with the current balance of suits. let's hope someone is paying attention for the next round of suit bonuses. CCP Rise? CCP Fozzy? i'm looking at you.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 267	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:13:00 - [29] - Quote RKKR wrote: 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. Correction: DUST is currently 'You-better-be-using-this-or-you-are-going-to-have-an-disadvantage'. You know rock, paper, scissors is balanced, dust is not. Rock is OP.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 267	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:16:00 - [30] - Quote I don't agree with everything the OP said. What I would like to see is the REASONS for the differences between the suits. WHY did CCP decide that Amarr dual tanks? WHY did CCP decide that Logis should be better than everything else? WHY.... For all we know that got a ******** squirrel (do they have squirrels in Iceland and China?) to decide what suit got what. If they tell us the reasons then we can tell them how kitten stupid they are and maybe we can make some progress towards balance.

Llast 326 An Arkhos 906	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:23:00 - [31] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: Edit: r3tarded is censored? Yet Commando is not shrugs KRRROOOOOOM
Seeth Mensch 2Shitz 1Giggle 93	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:32:00 - [32] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: RKKR wrote: 8213 wrote: Whoa there. A lot of people can't see the forest for the trees. DUST is rock, paper, scissors balancing. Correction: DUST is currently 'You-better-be-using-this-or-you-are-going-to-have-an-disadvantage'. You know rock, paper, scissors is balanced, dust is not. Rock is OP. nerf rock! Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:20:00 - [33] - Quote So reading in the other forum (CSM one) the team that is involved in this type of stuff (and a ton more) has 4 guys on it...... 4. Yep, battle mechanics, vehicle mechanics, suits, weapons all under just 4 guys. Make of that what you will. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2425	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:36:00 - [34] - Quote Look, these aren't starships these are dropsuits so the whole EVE backstory thing goes out the window because you can't fit hardeners on a dropsuit. The Amarr approach may not seem sensible to you but there are far less sensible things in dust like: Why does the Gallente Scout have 2 highs and 2 lows at ADV So they can't avoid a protoscanner at level 3 scout. Why do the Minmatar have the most infantry gear on the table at the moment? Who the hell knows Why do Assault CR's, RR's, and ScRs compete on par with the Assault RIfle, but the Burst AR, Breach AR, and Tac AR are all hands down lesser than their racial counterparts? I can assure you, although this game is tied to EVE, EVE is not FPS so let's not take this game to a sit and click type thing. BTWs, Amarr have less slots overall but highest CPU/PG why not make something of that? I Buy Officer Weapons and IA5 Pistols Contact me for arrangements; 200k-500k a pop Lentarr Legionaire
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 280	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:41:00 - [35] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Look, these aren't starships these are dropsuits so the whole EVE backstory thing goes out the window because you can't fit hardeners on a dropsuit. The Amarr approach may not seem sensible to you but there are far less sensible things in dust like: Why does the Gallente Scout have 2 highs and 2 lows at ADV So they can't avoid a protoscanner at level 3 scout. Why do the Minmatar have the most infantry gear on the table at the moment? Who the hell knows Why do Assault CR's, RR's, and ScRs compete on par with the Assault RIfle, but the Burst AR, Breach AR, and Tac AR are all hands down lesser than their racial counterparts? I can assure you, although this game is tied to EVE, EVE is not FPS so let's not take this game to a sit and click type thing. BTWs, Amarr have less slots overall but highest CPU/PG why not make something of that? I bolded the part where I can prove you didn't read the thread I agree on the assault rifle (plasma). I think that less range should mean more damage, and that the AR should have the highest DPS followed by the CR, then the SCR, then the rail rifle. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4817	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:55:00 - [36] - Quote Amarr get both higher CPU and PG. A mod will only increase one of those. Amarr: Highest base HP Highest CPU/PG Scout like Stamina Argue HP ceiling all you want but all of my Amarr fits have higher eHP than my Gallente. I simply cannot fit those juicy HP modules. Did I mention my Gallente can't fit a proto weapon, even with the bonus? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1973	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:57:00 - [37] - Quote Forget everything you think you know from Eve and stop trying to apply it to Dust514 because things are different here. Here Amarr are slow eHP tankers and Gallente are the only real armour tankers. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4817	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:58:00 - [38] - Quote Amarr is actually one of the best Assaults. Saying It's underpowered will earn you a slap from my imperial Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 281	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:01:00 - [39] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Amarr get both higher CPU and PG. A mod will only increase one of those. Amarr: Highest base HP Highest CPU/PG Scout like Stamina Argue HP ceiling all you want but all of my Amarr fits have higher eHP than my Gallente. I simply cannot fit those juicy HP modules. Did I mention my Gallente can't fit a proto weapon, even with the bonus? Please look here and here before you spout the same arguments that have been shot down already. Use something tangable, like facts backed by numbers rather than opinions. Best counter to Tanks? Tanks Best counter to Infantry? Tanks Best counter to Dropships? Tanks
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1973	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:01:00 - [40] - Quote low genius wrote: without the rest of the suits it doesn't even matter what problems exist with the current balance of suits. let's hope someone is paying attention for the next round of suit bonuses. CCP Rise? CCP Fozzy? i'm looking at you. Aren't Fozzy and Rise only Eve devs? Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4817	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:47:00 - [41] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Amarr get both higher CPU and PG. A mod will only increase one of those. Amarr: Highest base HP Highest CPU/PG Scout like Stamina Argue HP ceiling all you want but all of my Amarr fits have higher eHP than my Gallente. I simply cannot fit those juicy HP modules. Did I mention my Gallente can't fit a proto weapon, even with the bonus? Please look here and here before you spout the same arguments that have been shot down already. Use something tangable, like facts backed by numbers rather than opinions. My arguments are completely valid. To have both CPU AND PG you will need two slots. HP ceiling us invalid if the fitting around it sucks arse and isn't viable. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4817	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:52:00 - [42] - Quote Do not use logis as an example. They're all overpowered in their own way. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:08:00 - [43] - Quote Ok so you are basically telling me that you are not going to read the thread at all right? When fitting racial weapons, as these two assault suits are obviously designed to do, the PG/CPU gap becomes much smaller. After fitting a proto SCR for amarr and proto AR for gallente (the only two weapons that have direct comparative value: Amarr has 376 CPU left 76 PG left Gallente has 332 CPU left 71 PG left This means the amarr assault has 44 more CPU and 5 more PG after just fitting weapons, that of course doesn't include a side-arm which gallente will also get a 25% bonus to when CCP gets off it's but and releases the bolt pistol. Amarr weapons are hogs, just like in eve. The amarrian suits get more fitting because our weapons require so much more to fit. So amarr has +slightly more fitting +more stamina/recovery +30 HP -movement speed (there is no module to bring this up, so less strafe/jumping ability is permanent and this is HUGE) -sprint speed -slot (also HUGE) -terrible weapon fitting requirements with that extra slot comes an huge amount of fitting options not available to the amarr, including using two slots on basic armor plates (rather than 1 complex on the amarr) and coming out with + 47 ehp, 3% less movement penalty, and an extra 20CPU/10PG. There is quite literally no way you can fit an amarr assault in a way that a gallente assault can't surpass. This of course glazes over the fact that the gallente logistics has the same CPU as the amarr logi, 7 more PG, an extra slot, and a fitting bonus that even further separates the two. Best counter to Tanks? Tanks Best counter to Infantry? Tanks Best counter to Dropships? Tanks
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4817	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:11:00 - [44] - Quote Try assault SCR. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4817	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:12:00 - [45] - Quote And you're forgetting the Amarr Logi has a sidearm. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4817	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:14:00 - [46] - Quote Also, your math is wrong somewhere My Gal Ass has 394/79 CPU/PG. Edit: Nvm, read it wrong. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 284	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:28:00 - [47] - Quote 1) Assault SCR is horrible (terrible dispersion makes it just horrible beyond 20m). The standard amarr rifle is the SCR, as the standard gallente rifle is the AR. This is a direct comparison of standard rifles. 2)Amarr logi has a sidearm, gallente has +1 equipment slot, I didn't forget it. Gall logi > Amarr logi. 3)I guess you are going to fully disregard the rest of the entire thread, and just pick and choose what to argue about? This has become pointless. I will not be drawn into a debate with a troll. Anyone, and I mean anyone who uses an amarr assault will tell you that the assault is very PG limited, not CPU limited. It comes down to this, amarrian suits have sacrificed 1 entire slot for 30 hp, and that is ridiculous. We sacrifice speed for stamina We sacrifice movement for recovery We have higher CPU/PG based purely around having hard to fit weapons We sacrifice 1 slot for 30 hp I am sure nearly all of my amarrian brother would love to say, "keep the 30 hp, give me my damn slot back." Best counter to Tanks? Tanks Best counter to Infantry? Tanks Best counter to Dropships? Tanks
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4817	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:36:00 - [48] - Quote LOL, I'm a troll? I ******* use the suit, it's my favorite. Also, ASCR is monsterous, the dispersion is visual, bullets still hit where you aim. It also has no recoil, larger clip, more range. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 86	Posted - 2013.12.19 11:00:00 - [49] - Quote Sadly the amarr suits are underpowered. Logi as an example. Minmatar has 4 high 4 low and 4 equipment. The amarr have 3 high 4 low with a side arm. Are the amarr supposed to be fighting minmatar because minmatar seems to have an unfair advantage. If the amarr gets 4 high 4 low it would be a perfect balance
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1973	Posted - 2013.12.19 12:46:00 - [50] - Quote Before you go telling us all that the speed difference is an important factor, talk to a scout and find out how amazingly the extra speed helps - hint: it doesn't. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.

Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2715	Posted - 2013.12.19 14:38:00 - [51] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I mostly agree with the OP. To Chunky: You have an extra slot on the other suits, this means you can throw a CPU or PG mod in there. Not only that but amarrian weapons take the most CPU and PG out of the prototype weapons. The gallente may have less fitting but they get a 25% reduction to fitting hybrid weaponry, so after they fit the weaponry they are designed to use. To OP: Actually no matter what type of tanking you do, 1 extra slot > 30 hp. The amarrian suits always have a lower eHP ceiling than a gallente suit, while always being slower, and having less slots. Hell sometimes the amarrain suit has a lower eHP ceiling than the caldari suits. To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. You can't argue that one more slot = more HP when in the very same post you say that one more slot = more fitting space. Which is it? It can't be both, and it is most likely neither. You won't get the same HP out of a Gallente suit if you're effectively limited to the same slot layout, and neither can you run the required modules to beat the Amarr suit if you dom't have the fitting space. No.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2715	Posted - 2013.12.19 14:39:00 - [52] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Sadly the amarr suits are underpowered. Logi as an example. Minmatar has 4 high 4 low and 4 equipment. The amarr have 3 high 4 low with a side arm. Are the amarr supposed to be fighting minmatar because minmatar seems to have an unfair advantage. If the amarr gets 4 high 4 low it would be a perfect balance Compare the base stats. No.
Aisha Ctarl Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2302	Posted - 2013.12.19 15:14:00 - [53] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Sadly the amarr suits are underpowered. Logi as an example. Minmatar has 4 high 4 low and 4 equipment. The amarr have 3 high 4 low with a side arm. Are the amarr supposed to be fighting minmatar because minmatar seems to have an unfair advantage. If the amarr gets 4 high 4 low it would be a perfect balance Compare the base stats. Base stats yes the Amarr have higher eHP, but in the end, the Amarr actually comes out with lower or around the same eHP. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2716	Posted - 2013.12.19 16:12:00 - [54] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Sadly the amarr suits are underpowered. Logi as an example. Minmatar has 4 high 4 low and 4 equipment. The amarr have 3 high 4 low with a side arm. Are the amarr supposed to be fighting minmatar because minmatar seems to have an unfair advantage. If the amarr gets 4 high 4 low it would be a perfect balance Compare the base stats. Base stats yes the Amarr have higher eHP, but in the end, the Amarr actually comes out with lower or around the same eHP. The Amarr Logi vs the Minmatar? Are you serious? No.
Aisha Ctarl Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2310	Posted - 2013.12.19 16:17:00 - [55] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Sadly the amarr suits are underpowered. Logi as an example. Minmatar has 4 high 4 low and 4 equipment. The amarr have 3 high 4 low with a side arm. Are the amarr supposed to be fighting minmatar because minmatar seems to have an unfair advantage. If the amarr gets 4 high 4 low it would be a perfect balance Compare the base stats. Base stats yes the Amarr have higher eHP, but in the end, the Amarr actually comes out with lower or around the same eHP. The Amarr Logi vs the Minmatar? Are you serious? READ THE OP BRO - I'm talking assault suits. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2426	Posted - 2013.12.19 18:37:00 - [56] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I bolded the part where I can prove you didn't read the thread I agree on the assault rifle (plasma). I think that less range should mean more damage, and that the AR should have the highest DPS followed by the CR, then the SCR, then the rail rifle. You're right I didn't read the entire thread, I read the first post and responded to that post because I feel it is unnecessary. If you can prove the OP wrong, you have proven false the entire argument because without all points in an argument being valid, you can't have a valid argument. Now, Aisha was going on about how Gallente suits can armor tank for days and aren't forced to be butt-raped by armor repair modules. I was saying "Hey, the Amarr have more CPU/PG but less slots, therefore all that leftover CPU/PG, which couldn't have possibly gone all into modules because there are so little of them, are meant to go elsewhere. Maybe it was meant for weapons." And honestly what about the fact that the Caldari just as fast as the Gallente at base? According to EVE they should be slower. This is not EVE and I have yet to see an Amarrian Medium frame that was all-that-easy to take down like I see the arguments displaying. They have higher EHP as I observe....in fact let me make a fitting with my Imperial LP and Federal LP I Buy Officer Weapons and IA5 Pistols Contact me for arrangements; 200k-500k a pop Lentarr Legionaire
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 86	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:14:00 - [57] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Sadly the amarr suits are underpowered. Logi as an example. Minmatar has 4 high 4 low and 4 equipment. The amarr have 3 high 4 low with a side arm. Are the amarr supposed to be fighting minmatar because minmatar seems to have an unfair advantage. If the amarr gets 4 high 4 low it would be a perfect balance Compare the base stats. Base stats yes the Amarr have higher eHP, but in the end, the Amarr actually comes out with lower or around the same eHP. The Amarr Logi vs the Minmatar? Are you serious? The amarr would have a bit more armour....that's it. The minmatar are faster....a lot faster. The amarr run slower than brick tanked gallente logi. Minmatar will have more shields with 4 high slots and the almost exact same armour with 4 low slots and 4 equipment. Amarr have a side arm and 3 high slots.....only the side arm and the armour rep bonus makes it decent. Its speed is terrible. And almost every other logi has more ehp. Amarr is supposed to have the most health.... but gallente logis with 900 armour and caldari logis with 600 shield and 500 armour make the amarr almost a joke. All I'm asking for is a 4th high slot to counter minmatar and other logis. Rant over...
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 821	Posted - 2013.12.20 07:32:00 - [58] - Quote Alas, poor Amarr! I knew them. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 877	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:06:00 - [59] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Amarr get both higher CPU and PG. A mod will only increase one of those. Amarr: Highest base HP Highest CPU/PG Scout like Stamina Argue HP ceiling all you want but all of my Amarr fits have higher eHP than my Gallente. I simply cannot fit those juicy HP modules. Did I mention my Gallente can't fit a proto weapon, even with the bonus? Please look here and here before you spout the same arguments that have been shot down already. Use something tangable, like facts backed by numbers rather than opinions. Even 1 CPU can break a fit. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Aisha Ctarl 0uter.Heaven 2460	Posted - 2013.12.25 19:09:00 - [60] - Quote #CCPHatestheAmarr "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor



Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.