DUST Search - Riddle me this - Gallente vs Amarr

Ripley Riley wrote:

Magnus Amadeuss wrote:

Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust.

Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements

Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up.

Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust.

Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor.

caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU

amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG

Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting.

As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings.

I realized this shortly after I submitted my contribution. I have since edited my response.

Ripley Riley wrote:

The difference between the lowest rifle (combat rifle) and the highest rifle (laser rifle) CPU is 11... The Amarr PG/CPU net bonus is 62... that still means Amarr using laser rifles are gaining 51 more CPU than Minmatar dropsuits.

We aren't even considering the Light Weapon Operation skill (3% reduction to CPU per level, 15% reduce when maxed) would reduce the CPU cost of high CPU weapons more than low CPU weapons.

Also, I am fairly sure that the PRO laser rifle has a PG of 10, not 20.


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Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:19:00 - [1] - Quote I mostly agree with the OP. To Chunky: You have an extra slot on the other suits, this means you can throw a CPU or PG mod in there. Not only that but amarrian weapons take the most CPU and PG out of the prototype weapons. The gallente may have less fitting but they get a 25% reduction to fitting hybrid weaponry, so after they fit the weaponry they are designed to use. To OP: Actually no matter what type of tanking you do, 1 extra slot > 30 hp. The amarrian suits always have a lower eHP ceiling than a gallente suit, while always being slower, and having less slots. Hell sometimes the amarrain suit has a lower eHP ceiling than the caldari suits. To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:39:00 - [2] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: To Ripley Riley: Amarrian weapons have way higher fitting requirements than any other races, hence the higher fitting. That advantage is nearly fully mitigated when fitting the weapons the suits were designed to use. Proto Amarr Rifle: 92 CPU 20 PG Proto Gallente Rifle: 90 CPU 13 PG (67.5 CPU 9 PG on Gallente assault) Proto Caldari Rifle: 84 CPU 17 PG Proto Minmatar Rifle: 81 CPU 8 PG Amarr have an artificial fitting advantage because Amarrian weapons are hogs and amarrian suits are gimped with one less slot. Amarr ships in Eve get passive bonuses when using weaponry that align with their race's weapon system. Amarr get bonuses with lasers, Gallente with drones and hybrid weapons, Minmatar with projectile, Caldari with missile and hybrid. What prevents them from using a combat rifle, rail rifle, plasma cannon, or any other light weapon for that matter? Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust. Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up. Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust. Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor. caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting. As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.12.18 19:08:00 - [3] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Same for gallente and amarrian assaults in dust. Gall assault = 25% redution to hybrid weapons fitting requirements Amarr assault = 25% reduction in heat build-up. Nothing in eve or dust prevents these suits/ships from using non-bonused weapons, but the suits/ships are DESIGNED with those weapons in mind. Just like how in eve amarrian boats have higher CPU/PG than minmatar boats, so do amarrian assault suits in dust. Obviously this ONLY mainly to assaults, because the difference between fittings for logis is not in amarrian favor. caldari 350 CPU > amarr/gallente/minmatar logi at 390 CPU amarr 72 PG > Gallente/caldari/minmatar 78 PG Of course here the gallente suit has a MAJOR fitting advantage over all the other suits due to it's 25% reduction to equipment fitting. As always, more slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly more fitting, especially when that fitting is equalized through weapon fittings. I realized this shortly after I submitted my contribution. I have since edited my response. Ripley Riley wrote: The difference between the lowest rifle (combat rifle) and the highest rifle (laser rifle) CPU is 11... The Amarr PG/CPU net bonus is 62... that still means Amarr using laser rifles are gaining 51 more CPU than Minmatar dropsuits. We aren't even considering the Light Weapon Operation skill (3% reduction to CPU per level, 15% reduce when maxed) would reduce the CPU cost of high CPU weapons more than low CPU weapons. Also, I am fairly sure that the PRO laser rifle has a PG of 10, not 20. Right now the ONLY weapon that has racial parity is the normal rifle variants (assault/combat/rail/scrambler) so it is the only reasonable weapon to use as for comparison. The fittings for the proto scrambler rifle is the one I chose to maintain an objective comparison. Proto scrambler rifle has a PG of 20. The minmatar assault has 320 vs 350 for the amarr (CPU wise) which becomes 416 CPU and 455 CPU respectively, meaning the amarrian suit ends up having a 28 CPU advantage when taking racial rifles into account (39 CPU then -11 CPU). ( a 6% CPU advantage for amarr) Of course this argument merits a look at PG aswell when you compare suits, the minmatar having 64 PG (83.2 w/ skills) and the amarr having 70 (91 w/skills). The amarr weapon uses 12 more PG, meaning that the amarrian suit is at a PG DISADVANTAGE (a 5% PG advantage for the minmatar). Now this would look relatively balanced if the minmaatar suit didn't have an extra slot with which it can fit a PG or CPU mod, or whatever. The 50 CPU advantage you quoted must have meant you were using gallente when you said minmatar. The gallente suit is 390 vs 455 CPU (amarr) with max skills, then taking weapons into account it has roughly 24 less CPU (5% advantage amarr) and 11 more PG( 12% advantage gallente). You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:20:00 - [4] - Quote So reading in the other forum (CSM one) the team that is involved in this type of stuff (and a ton more) has 4 guys on it...... 4. Yep, battle mechanics, vehicle mechanics, suits, weapons all under just 4 guys. Make of that what you will. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 280	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:41:00 - [5] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Look, these aren't starships these are dropsuits so the whole EVE backstory thing goes out the window because you can't fit hardeners on a dropsuit. The Amarr approach may not seem sensible to you but there are far less sensible things in dust like: Why does the Gallente Scout have 2 highs and 2 lows at ADV So they can't avoid a protoscanner at level 3 scout. Why do the Minmatar have the most infantry gear on the table at the moment? Who the hell knows Why do Assault CR's, RR's, and ScRs compete on par with the Assault RIfle, but the Burst AR, Breach AR, and Tac AR are all hands down lesser than their racial counterparts? I can assure you, although this game is tied to EVE, EVE is not FPS so let's not take this game to a sit and click type thing. BTWs, Amarr have less slots overall but highest CPU/PG why not make something of that? I bolded the part where I can prove you didn't read the thread I agree on the assault rifle (plasma). I think that less range should mean more damage, and that the AR should have the highest DPS followed by the CR, then the SCR, then the rail rifle. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 281	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:01:00 - [6] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Amarr get both higher CPU and PG. A mod will only increase one of those. Amarr: Highest base HP Highest CPU/PG Scout like Stamina Argue HP ceiling all you want but all of my Amarr fits have higher eHP than my Gallente. I simply cannot fit those juicy HP modules. Did I mention my Gallente can't fit a proto weapon, even with the bonus? Please look here and here before you spout the same arguments that have been shot down already. Use something tangable, like facts backed by numbers rather than opinions. Best counter to Tanks? Tanks Best counter to Infantry? Tanks Best counter to Dropships? Tanks
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:08:00 - [7] - Quote Ok so you are basically telling me that you are not going to read the thread at all right? When fitting racial weapons, as these two assault suits are obviously designed to do, the PG/CPU gap becomes much smaller. After fitting a proto SCR for amarr and proto AR for gallente (the only two weapons that have direct comparative value: Amarr has 376 CPU left 76 PG left Gallente has 332 CPU left 71 PG left This means the amarr assault has 44 more CPU and 5 more PG after just fitting weapons, that of course doesn't include a side-arm which gallente will also get a 25% bonus to when CCP gets off it's but and releases the bolt pistol. Amarr weapons are hogs, just like in eve. The amarrian suits get more fitting because our weapons require so much more to fit. So amarr has +slightly more fitting +more stamina/recovery +30 HP -movement speed (there is no module to bring this up, so less strafe/jumping ability is permanent and this is HUGE) -sprint speed -slot (also HUGE) -terrible weapon fitting requirements with that extra slot comes an huge amount of fitting options not available to the amarr, including using two slots on basic armor plates (rather than 1 complex on the amarr) and coming out with + 47 ehp, 3% less movement penalty, and an extra 20CPU/10PG. There is quite literally no way you can fit an amarr assault in a way that a gallente assault can't surpass. This of course glazes over the fact that the gallente logistics has the same CPU as the amarr logi, 7 more PG, an extra slot, and a fitting bonus that even further separates the two. Best counter to Tanks? Tanks Best counter to Infantry? Tanks Best counter to Dropships? Tanks
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 284	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:28:00 - [8] - Quote 1) Assault SCR is horrible (terrible dispersion makes it just horrible beyond 20m). The standard amarr rifle is the SCR, as the standard gallente rifle is the AR. This is a direct comparison of standard rifles. 2)Amarr logi has a sidearm, gallente has +1 equipment slot, I didn't forget it. Gall logi > Amarr logi. 3)I guess you are going to fully disregard the rest of the entire thread, and just pick and choose what to argue about? This has become pointless. I will not be drawn into a debate with a troll. Anyone, and I mean anyone who uses an amarr assault will tell you that the assault is very PG limited, not CPU limited. It comes down to this, amarrian suits have sacrificed 1 entire slot for 30 hp, and that is ridiculous. We sacrifice speed for stamina We sacrifice movement for recovery We have higher CPU/PG based purely around having hard to fit weapons We sacrifice 1 slot for 30 hp I am sure nearly all of my amarrian brother would love to say, "keep the 30 hp, give me my damn slot back." Best counter to Tanks? Tanks Best counter to Infantry? Tanks Best counter to Dropships? Tanks