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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3177
   |
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread
Here is the main thread ^^^^
A it is,im pretty sure that tank vs AV is very balanced.
Good job.
The only problem is you didnt take into account the fact that nerfing AV,while balancing vehicles,making them CHEAPER than dropsuits in many cases and not changing the restrictions would create TANK SPAM.
With your new modules,even a MLT tank can wistand HEAVY prototype Fire from MULTIPLE AV red dots.
If you just glance around the first 5 pages of these forums you'll see that the problem is only getting bigger, and this is just the FIRST WEEK of your new patch.
Here is a viable solution.
as it is vehicles are always an important part of warfare,but at the moment they have become the only part in Dust514 warfare.So far as going into a 10 vs 10 domination match only to fin 6-7 tanks per team and the rest being SNIPERS.
please explain how i am supposed to take the Objective in this scenario.
My opinion is LIMIT vehicles per team depending on their CLASS:
GÖª 2 Tanks / the powerful behemoths that even at MLT level they can prove to be a force to be reckoned with.
GÖª 2 Dropships / Usually used as transport, the low 2 DS limit is so that they cannot be used as Monster counter for Tanks.Everyone knows a good DS pailot can be hell for a tanker, so leaving it a 2 vs 2 to prevent DS abuse seems like a good idea.
GÖª 3 Lavs / Main transort unit. Very important. With 3 LAv limit a team can easily transport up to 9 people to the objectives and for blitzkrieg strategies.
With a team reaching its vehicle quota at 7.Same as now, but without the chance of tank spam.
This would help everyone.
GÖª Infantry vs infantry will be a viable scenario again (Specially in open maps, that are like 80% of them)
GÖª tanks wont get nerfed so tankers happy;even a MLT tankers has a chance to participate
GÖª AV Doesnt get buffed BUT the chance to outnumber a tank is bigger there by creating chance to counter
GÖª Good tankers will never be OUTNUMBERED severely there by making their SP investment more important.
as it is you can be the BEST tanker ever with the best Battle Maddy ever made!
BUT if 6 Somas appear you're gonna get f***d regadless. This would help 2 Good tankers take on whatever numbers of crappy MLT somas the enemy throw at them...
(a Text should appear on everyon'es screen, upper right side, informing you there is a tank spot available, in the case your blue dots called in tanks before you did as soon as one of them looses one you would have the cahnce to deploy one of your own.)
You see, the problem is your vision is flawed in the NUMBER OF PLAYERS.
you can have 6 tanks on the field, but if you have 32+ players in YOUR team. NOT 16.
Maps are to small, we have FEW important objectives and few number of players per team. a Team spamming 6+ tanks can easily maintain advantage over a team not using tanks putting 1 tank on each objective and having one patrol. While the 9 rest infantry just take out AVers easily.
Please consider this a an option. Im 100% sure this is what is resulting in umbalanced and un-fun matches for many players.
here,. a little glint of what people think of your patch:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129001&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129017&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129023&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128949&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129021&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128228&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129013&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128980&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128768&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129006&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128974&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128975&find=unread
TANKS/AV/FW/RIFLES in 1.7? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread
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Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
1650
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'd say 2 tanks in ambush and 3 in skirmish. That would counter spamming pretty well.
But then again I don't want to have to race just to get my gunnlogi before the dude with a mlt tank... That's my only problem, not being able to use what I put nearly all my sp into.
If CCP could find a way to prioritise people that put more sp in vehicles than GO FOR IT cause this is a good idea that doesn't involve NERF/BUFF bullshit!!!
Making AV an actual role
GÿåTank DriverGÿå
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Jason Pearson
3398
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
isn't this your 2nd-3rd thread with pretty much the same content o.O
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3179
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:I'd say 2 tanks in ambush and 3 in skirmish. That would counter spamming pretty well.
But then again I don't want to have to race just to get my gunnlogi before the dude with a mlt tank... That's my only problem, not being able to use what I put nearly all my sp into
Maybe introducing some kind of priority to call in your vehicle if you have higher SP in that said vehicle ?
Im sure something can be thought of. But at the moment this vehicle restriction is a MUST, to not break the balance of AV vs Tank and keep the games fun for EVERYONE ....
3 in Skirmish could be too. It aint TOO bad...
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3179
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:isn't this your 2nd-3rd thread with pretty much the same content o.O
2nd actually
The rest are posts in every single tank related thread, stating the same. I want this implemented.
People will call me a madman, but im sure it'll work.
I'll bet my Templar Scrambler rifle on it.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
243
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
message from Godin: Let me call in my Maddy while in the fittings screen then (through the pilot suit it should let you do so), as I don't feel like waiting 10 minutes for some useless bluedot to drive around in circles.
EDIT: This will be a sad day if this gets put in, as all those free kills will disappear from me  |
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
905
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
.
.
(((SUGGESTING HARDER LIMITS ON VEHICLE TYPES)))
[/i]
It would be a sad day to bring in more artificial limitations. Adding rules to deny eventually creates a black jungle of strange restrictions - often obsolete and harmful to the game.
So no thank you to the harsh demand up there - CCP please don't do it.
I have a suggestion of my own to help with the problem (yes, problem). Linking later.
Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance?
The fix:
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3179
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:
It would be a sad day to bring in more artificial limitations. Adding rules to deny eventually creates a black jungle of strange restrictions - often obsolete and harmful to the game.
So no thank you to the harsh demand up there - CCP please don't do it.
I have a suggestion of my own to help with the problem (yes, problem). Linking later.
Im not saying it should be PERMANENT.
But this is an immediate solution to the problem without nerfing anyone nor breaking anything else.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3179
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: Let me call in my Maddy while in the fittings screen then (through the pilot suit it should let you do so), as I don't feel like waiting 10 minutes for some useless bluedot to drive around in circles. EDIT: This will be a sad day if this gets put in, as all those free kills will disappear from me
Message to Godin: please read all the posts.I already addressed this...in a way XD
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
1650
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Flix Keptick wrote:I'd say 2 tanks in ambush and 3 in skirmish. That would counter spamming pretty well.
But then again I don't want to have to race just to get my gunnlogi before the dude with a mlt tank... That's my only problem, not being able to use what I put nearly all my sp into Maybe introducing some kind of priority to call in your vehicle if you have higher SP in that said vehicle ?
Im sure something can be thought of. But at the moment this vehicle restriction is a MUST, to not break the balance of AV vs Tank and keep the games fun for EVERYONE ....
3 in Skirmish could be too. It aint TOO bad...
Reread my post, sorry I was editing it and didn't notice you replied. I added stuff to it, we got the same idea
Making AV an actual role
GÿåTank DriverGÿå
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3181
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Flix Keptick wrote:I'd say 2 tanks in ambush and 3 in skirmish. That would counter spamming pretty well.
But then again I don't want to have to race just to get my gunnlogi before the dude with a mlt tank... That's my only problem, not being able to use what I put nearly all my sp into Maybe introducing some kind of priority to call in your vehicle if you have higher SP in that said vehicle ?
Im sure something can be thought of. But at the moment this vehicle restriction is a MUST, to not break the balance of AV vs Tank and keep the games fun for EVERYONE ....
3 in Skirmish could be too. It aint TOO bad... Reread my post, sorry I was editing it and didn't notice you replied. I added stuff to it, we got the same idea
Yup the ideas are pretty much the same. IT seems fair to specialized vehicle drivers over scrubbies i think....
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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KenKaniff69
Fatal Absolution
1004
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
King Checkmate, I find it hard to take you seriously with your ranting posts that have everything bolded. I fell like you are shouting at me and anyone else who might listen. Considering you had crutch lolOPswarms before 1.7 and are probably used to taking out vehicles, I can understand where you are coming from with this frustration.
Vehicle Pilots have now had to deal with this 3 times. After about the second nerf to your class, you learn CCP doesn't give a sh!t and you adapt. Vehicles are incredibly easy to kill if you know what you are doing. My assault forge gun does just fine taking care of that tank spam you speak of. High alpha kills tanks these days.
Spamming the forums with endless threads of raging nonsense gets you nowhere. H3ll, not even over 65 pages of constructive feedback got the vehicle community anywhere. CCP sucks at balancing, but vehicles vs AV is just about right. The only balances that need to be adjusted deal with vehicle on vehicle combat-and it is only slight adjustments.
So about those vehicle locks...
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3182
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
KenKaniff69 wrote:King Checkmate, I find it hard to take you seriously with your ranting posts that have everything bolded. I fell like you are shouting at me and anyone else who might listen. Considering you had crutch lolOPswarms before 1.7 and are probably used to taking out vehicles, I can understand where you are coming from with this frustration.
Vehicle Pilots have now had to deal with this 3 times. After about the second nerf to your class, you learn CCP doesn't give a sh!t and you adapt. Vehicles are incredibly easy to kill if you know what you are doing. My assault forge gun does just fine taking care of that tank spam you speak of. High alpha kills tanks these days.
Spamming the forums with endless threads of raging nonsense gets you nowhere. H3ll, not even over 65 pages of constructive feedback got the vehicle community anywhere. CCP sucks at balancing, but vehicles vs AV is just about right. The only balances that need to be adjusted deal with vehicle on vehicle combat-and it is only slight adjustments.
1-I dont care if you dont like bold. I like it and need it. Period.
2-I am known for being a Forge gunner,not a swarm user.
3-Yes im used to taking out vehicles.
4-I started as an AVer when the Murder Logi craze came in, most people who have been around enough time know i've been a SCOUT most of my life.SO I KNOW NERFS.
5-You can do whatever you like with your assault forge gun.But it really depends on team/tanks deployed/maps etc... I want to see how many tanks you can destroy with people like me looking for you with A.Scanners and Rail tanks shooting at you outside your range.Again,situation.
6-I've only made 2 Threads regarding this. Im not spamming anything, and you are not looking any smarter.
7-Agreed vehicels vs AV are right. Their numbers arent thou.
8-Actually , vehicle on vehicle combat is pretty good as it is.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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KenKaniff69
Fatal Absolution
1005
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 04:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:KenKaniff69 wrote:King Checkmate, I find it hard to take you seriously with your ranting posts that have everything bolded. I fell like you are shouting at me and anyone else who might listen. Considering you had crutch lolOPswarms before 1.7 and are probably used to taking out vehicles, I can understand where you are coming from with this frustration.
Vehicle Pilots have now had to deal with this 3 times. After about the second nerf to your class, you learn CCP doesn't give a sh!t and you adapt. Vehicles are incredibly easy to kill if you know what you are doing. My assault forge gun does just fine taking care of that tank spam you speak of. High alpha kills tanks these days.
Spamming the forums with endless threads of raging nonsense gets you nowhere. H3ll, not even over 65 pages of constructive feedback got the vehicle community anywhere. CCP sucks at balancing, but vehicles vs AV is just about right. The only balances that need to be adjusted deal with vehicle on vehicle combat-and it is only slight adjustments. 1-I dont care if you dont like bold. I like it and need it. Period.2-I am known for being a Forge gunner,not a swarm user. 3-Yes im used to taking out vehicles. 4-I started as an AVer when the Murder Logi craze came in, most people who have been around enough time know i've been a SCOUT most of my life.SO I KNOW NERFS. 5-You can do whatever you like with your assault forge gun.But it really depends on team/tanks deployed/maps etc... I want to see how many tanks you can destroy with people like me looking for you with A.Scanners and Rail tanks shooting at you outside your range.Again,situation. 6-I've only made 2 Threads regarding this. Im not spamming anything, and you are not looking any smarter. 7-Agreed vehicels vs AV are right. Their numbers arent thou. 8-Actually , vehicle on vehicle combat is pretty good as it is.
Why do you need bold? I can hear you just fine. Perhaps you need to run a Madrugar or Gunloggi if you are struggling to deal with them OR better yet, just get a tank pilot in your squad. Tanks go away real fast when you have a double damage modded rail on your side.
how is this for bold?
Reported for Duplicated Threads and Spamming
now it is really not even worth my time to do that. However, that is exactly what CCP did to the author of the 45 page tank petition in order to stop it dead in its tracks. makes you wonder, doesn't it?
So about those vehicle locks...
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3185
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 05:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
KenKaniff69 wrote:
Why do you need bold? I can hear you just fine. Perhaps you need to run a Madrugar or Gunloggi if you are struggling to deal with them OR better yet, just get a tank pilot in your squad. Tanks go away real fast when you have a double damage modded rail on your side.
how is this for bold?
Reported for Duplicated Threads and Spamming
now it is really not even worth my time to do that. However, that is exactly what CCP did to the author of the 45 page tank petition in order to stop it dead in its tracks. makes you wonder, doesn't it?
ITs a thing i do.Me being almost BLIND i use BOLD to find my posts easier and look for replies. I shouldnt use it in my OWN threads but i got used to it,as most forum members.
I understand Tanks being great counter to tanks.
You dont understand it shouldn't be the ONLY true/best counter.
That is some pretty good bold you got there
.But it wouldnt make you no good, since both of my threads are different. One talking about 1.7 in general,the other regarding specifically AV-Tanks
It does make me wonder. It doesnt scare me at all either.Im not breaking any rules.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4177
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 06:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
There's one REALLY MASSIVE problem with this proposal.
2 HAVs.
2 Dropships.
3 LAVs.
7 total.
2 + 2 + 3 = 7.
This means you're making allowances for precisely ZERO variety in a team's vehicle complement. Everyone WILL bring the maximum number of HAVs and Dropships into EVERY match.
7 total is good. We already have that.
Max 3 HAVs.
Max 3 Dropships.
Max 5 combined total HAV/Assault Dropship (regular Dropships can ignore this limit)
Max 5 LAVs.
This means that your team vehicle complement can actually vary significantly from one match to the next.
Also, while tanks are MOSTLY balanced, I don't believe they're truly RIGHT yet - HAVs move far too fast (especially armour HAVS), not only in comparison with infantry but also with other vehicles which should be reasonably expected to outpace them a LOT more easily than they do. It's completely ridiculous that - WITHOUT mods - my Sica has a higher movement speed than my Onikuma WITH mods. |
Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
602
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 06:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
I offer a counter proposal, Drop the restrictions on number of vehicles. Remove the Lobby, and let us free roam planets as it is in Eve for the Solar Systems. No there won't be matches but this means that rather than being right there in the enemy's face every time you spawn there is a chance that you will need to travel somewhere to find someone to fight. 1v1, 200v100 and all sorts of other odd sized battles could be waged with impunity, the cost being the only limiting factor, a cost that would be paid by the Eve characters wishing the wars. Just a thought, we have not seen a great deal of change to the mechanics of fights to improve the numbers or the profitability, it might be time to rework some of the main features rather than worry about the details (such as how many tanks the other guy has).
LogiGod earns his pips
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3206
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 21:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:There's one REALLY MASSIVE problem with this proposal.
2 HAVs.
2 Dropships.
3 LAVs.
7 total.
2 + 2 + 3 = 7.
This means you're making allowances for precisely ZERO variety in a team's vehicle complement. Everyone WILL bring the maximum number of HAVs and Dropships into EVERY match.
7 total is good. We already have that.
Max 3 HAVs.
Max 3 Dropships.
Max 5 combined total HAV/Assault Dropship (regular Dropships can ignore this limit)
Max 5 LAVs.
This means that your team vehicle complement can actually vary significantly from one match to the next.
Also, while tanks are MOSTLY balanced, I don't believe they're truly RIGHT yet - HAVs move far too fast (especially armour HAVS), not only in comparison with infantry but also with other vehicles which should be reasonably expected to outpace them a LOT more easily than they do. It's completely ridiculous that - WITHOUT mods - my Sica has a higher movement speed than my Onikuma WITH mods.
Its not a massive problem. You say: ''This means you're making allowances for precisely ZERO variety in a team's vehicle complement.''.As it is there is no variety either. Each team tries to call in as many tanks as possible from the start, so there is STILL no variety. With my proposal at least there would be balance.
''...I don't believe they're truly RIGHT yet'' Its might be that CCP needs to balance them a little further yes. Specially MLT tanks being able to fight mano a mano vs tanks with heavy SP investment. Just yesterday i took down 2 Gunnos at the same time with my Battle sica (2 shield hardeners,1 armor repairer /heavy/ and 1 armor hardener + Blaster MLT).I think MLT tanks might be a big part of the problem too....
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
265
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 01:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: Let me call in my Maddy while in the fittings screen then (through the pilot suit it should let you do so), as I don't feel like waiting 10 minutes for some useless bluedot to drive around in circles. EDIT: This will be a sad day if this gets put in, as all those free kills will disappear from me Message to Godin: please read all the posts.I already addressed this...in a way XD PLUS,its not like 6-7 blue dots dONT call in 6-7 tanks fast enough as it is,leaving you without your maddy anyways.PLUS,this is more about what you want and more about Dust514 Balance. See? Important vs irrelevant.EDIT FROM GODIN: ''This will be a sad day if this gets put in, as all those free kills will disappear from me''AGAIN ,thinking only of yourself.
message from Godin: What would you rather have, an experienced pilot, or a scrub who is absolutely horrible at it? |
KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3220
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 01:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: Let me call in my Maddy while in the fittings screen then (through the pilot suit it should let you do so), as I don't feel like waiting 10 minutes for some useless bluedot to drive around in circles. EDIT: This will be a sad day if this gets put in, as all those free kills will disappear from me Message to Godin: please read all the posts.I already addressed this...in a way XD PLUS,its not like 6-7 blue dots dONT call in 6-7 tanks fast enough as it is,leaving you without your maddy anyways.PLUS,this is more about what you want and more about Dust514 Balance. See? Important vs irrelevant.EDIT FROM GODIN: ''This will be a sad day if this gets put in, as all those free kills will disappear from me''AGAIN ,thinking only of yourself. message from Godin: What would you rather have, an experienced pilot, or a scrub who is absolutely horrible at it?
I'll repeat myself since i know Godin likes to talk but not listen:
some kind of priority to vehicle users wthat actually invested on said vehicle so that the BETTER player can deploy his vehicle. Say True Adamance has 6 mill in vehicles and i have 800k. Then when the game starts True adamance has a good 30 secs to decide if he want to call in a vehicle and if he doesn't then me and every other scrub can call one.(this is an example of how it might work)
(a Text should appear on everyon'es screen, upper right side, informing you there is a tank spot available, in the case your blue dots called in tanks before you did as soon as one of them looses one you would have the cahnce to deploy one of your own.)
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
436
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 01:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. |
KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3220
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too.
I"LL REPEAT MYSELF. this is a temporary solution until full AV-Tank balance is achieved.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
308
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too.
There is already a limit to vehicles. This simply takes it one step further.
I'm in favor of this idea, so I can stop riding around in an HAV and get back to dropship piloting. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
1563
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too.
ccp already sets limits. here's 2 examples.
1 only 16 players on a team.
2. ever get that message when calling in a vehicle that its been denied because your team already has to many on the field...?
yeah setting limits.... do you play dust or do you just defend ccp on the forums?
because I swear every post from you is countering a thread describing a real issue in dust.
you are either #1 fanboi or secretly trying to sabotage the game.
if its the former then I hate you, if its the latter then I love you.
CCp's newest joke, making setting off your own remote explosives in FW FF... awesome job ccp.
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Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
298
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Believe it or not as much as I hate tank spam I don't know that depressing out the current vehicle cap is the solution.
The balance is not way off, a slight reduction in tank speed, and a slight boost of AV (not necessarily to previous levels) would put the scales even I think. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8741
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. I"LL REPEAT MYSELF. this is a temporary solution until full AV-Tank balance is achieved.
Devs said they're collecting data on vehicles. Why limit how many can be fielded? It'd be better to grit and bear it so they can get whatever data they need to get.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3220
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:Believe it or not as much as I hate tank spam I don't know that depressing out the current vehicle cap is the solution.
The balance is not way off, a slight reduction in tank speed, and a slight boost of AV (not necessarily to previous levels) would put the scales even I think.
Yes but thats a ''COULD'' more than a WOULD.
My TEMPORARY fix would help intermediately to control the games and leaving more time for CCP to work on more balance while not throwing this game out the window.
People must understand that the game is loosing players and fans by the second, just so a few vehicle drivers are happy.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3221
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. I"LL REPEAT MYSELF. this is a temporary solution until full AV-Tank balance is achieved. Devs said they're collecting data on vehicles. Why limit how many can be fielded? It'd be better to grit and bear it so they can get whatever data they need to get.
OMG PEOPLE READ THE G0DD4MN3D OP.
Its a temporary fix while ccp further balances the Av-TAnk thingieh so taht TANK spam is avoided,....
Jeezus xrist........
x3
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
849
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Let's let this fall right in with a matchmaking system based on some kind of cap. Everything gets fixed.
In the good ol' days of tabletop wargaming I played Warhammer Fantasy Battle. You had an agreed upon cap of total points you could spend on an army. That was part of the official rules.
You could use however much of anything so long as you were within that cap.
Put gear scores on infantry and a separate one on tanks (other vehicles) and only allow one team to have what the lesser of the two teams can have. That way you don't get more than what the match can handle in lesser skilled players and the protostomping team doesn't get that much additional blueberries helping them.
You could end up with 6 proto to 12 standard or advanced. Quantity vs. quality.
Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn!
BURN DUST 2014
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
437
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. I"LL REPEAT MYSELF. this is a temporary solution until full AV-Tank balance is achieved.
Why bother with limiting vehicles then? Why not just have them continue working on tanks to fix them? I'm very confused now, this post seems counter productive to your goal. |
|
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8742
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. I"LL REPEAT MYSELF. this is a temporary solution until full AV-Tank balance is achieved. Why bother with limiting vehicles then? Why not just have them continue working on tanks to fix them? I'm very confused now, this post seems counter productive to your goal.
I'm trying to figure out his logic too but it's making my head hurt.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3221
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. I"LL REPEAT MYSELF. this is a temporary solution until full AV-Tank balance is achieved. Why bother with limiting vehicles then? Why not just have them continue working on tanks to fix them? I'm very confused now, this post seems counter productive to your goal. I'm trying to figure out his logic too but it's making my head hurt.
''Why bother with limiting vehicles then? ''
Easy.Because the game is UNPLAYABLE now.
TRy going in solo and have a good ol' match of ambush.
Or be winning in a skirmish match only for the enemy to start spamming tanks in order to win.
Or play Domination to fight 7 tanks and the rest of the enemy team being snipers.
Why bother? because the game is broken at the moment and needs an immediate fix.
There is not time for CCP to figure out whats wrong and fix it. Not this time...
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
437
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. ccp already sets limits. here's 2 examples. 1 only 16 players on a team. 2. ever get that message when calling in a vehicle that its been denied because your team already has to many on the field...? yeah setting limits.... do you play dust or do you just defend ccp on the forums? because I swear every post from you is countering a thread describing a real issue in dust. you are either #1 fanboi or secretly trying to sabotage the game. if its the former then I hate you, if its the latter then I love you.
Yes there are limits, but that has more to do with technical limitations. To prevent extreme lag or player drop they limit the number of vehicles that can be called in, however you can call in 6 tanks or dropships or lavs or 3 tanks 2 dropships 1 lav or even 5 labs 1 tank. Point is your saying the solution to tank balance is only allowing two per side, which limits the freedom of players to field whatever vehicle force they want. Would you not say the same if there were only 4 heavies allowed per side? Or 2 scouts?
I do play dust, I really enjoy playing dust. I fly dropships everyday to keep my piloting skills up and have really been enjoying my caldari suit with a rail rifle, feels right to have a caldari weapon in my hands.
Some people go about issues the wrong way on these forums......OK a lot of people do. Doing something like the op suggested would take away a fun aspect of the game. You don't know what they may call in, what combination they will use. With this idea you would know there could only ever be two tanks and two dropships. That also affects my fun in this game because so many people call down vipers to get up high by themselves, so us dedicated pilots have to wait till they recall?
Maybe if you thought of ccp as people you would also be a little less harsh on them over this free game....
I've never been called a fanboi, let alone the king of fanbois, I just like playing dust and flying my python.
Oh and I'm not trying to sabotage the game, I enjoy playing it too much 
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3222
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:
Some people go about issues the wrong way on these forums......OK a lot of people do. Doing something like the op suggested would take away a fun aspect of the game. You don't know what they may call in, what combination they will use.
LOL @ YOU BRO. Of course i do!
7 tanks.
(If they are smart that is)
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Jason Pearson
3455
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:
Some people go about issues the wrong way on these forums......OK a lot of people do. Doing something like the op suggested would take away a fun aspect of the game. You don't know what they may call in, what combination they will use.
LOL @ YOU BRO. Of course i do!
7 tanks.(If they are smart that is)
Hard Cap is 5.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8745
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cosgar wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. I"LL REPEAT MYSELF. this is a temporary solution until full AV-Tank balance is achieved. Why bother with limiting vehicles then? Why not just have them continue working on tanks to fix them? I'm very confused now, this post seems counter productive to your goal. I'm trying to figure out his logic too but it's making my head hurt. ''Why bother with limiting vehicles then? ''Easy.Because the game is UNPLAYABLE now. TRy going in solo and have a good ol' match of ambush.Or be winning in a skirmish match only for the enemy to start spamming tanks in order to win. Or play Domination to fight 7 tanks and the rest of the enemy team being snipers. Why bother? because the game is broken at the moment and needs an immediate fix. There is not time for CCP to figure out whats wrong and fix it. Not this time...
Sounds like it's working as intended. Tanks are force multipliers and the go-to for escalating situations. Been tired of seeing CoD 514 where everyone ran around with nothing but rifles and wondering why the maps are so big. Aside from working out a few kinks in AV balance like WP for damaging vehicles, more heavy AV, and more anti-shield AV, I hope they don't change much. Tanking is finally fun and accessible to anyone willing to try.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1887
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Why not just increase price Tanks are Cheap and rather strong, why not put the price out of range for most but for dedicated tankers it might not be as much of an issue due to their strength especially vs AV.
Level 1 Forum Warrior
I'm a normal person, if I seem like a douche it's because I hate 90% of people on these forums
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3222
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
Sounds like it's working as intended. Tanks are force multipliers and the go-to for escalating situations. Been tired of seeing CoD 514 where everyone ran around with nothing but rifles and wondering why the maps are so big. Aside from working out a few kinks in AV balance like WP for damaging vehicles, more heavy AV, and more anti-shield AV, I hope they don't change much. Tanking is finally fun and accessible to anyone willing to try.
''Tanking is finally fun and accessible to anyone willing to try''
And thats the problem.Is way too accessible. and remember FUN is a point of view, Driving tanks is NOT fun for me, i do it cuz i must.
i want CCP to tell me Tanks are working a intended.
That this TANK spam we have in every game, was as intended.
And i swear i'll shut up about this idea.
If I dont see a blue tag, im calling BS on ''tanks working as intended'' cr4p....
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3222
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Why not just increase price Tanks are Cheap and rather strong, why not put the price out of range for most but for dedicated tankers it might not be as much of an issue due to their strength especially vs AV.
Because tankers would QQ.
Killar, man you have been around for enough time....
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Jason Pearson
3455
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Why not just increase price Tanks are Cheap and rather strong, why not put the price out of range for most but for dedicated tankers it might not be as much of an issue due to their strength especially vs AV. Because tankers would QQ.
Killar, man you have been around for enough time....
Nope, because to quote many AVers (especially when we suggested raising prices for AV back before this build)
ISK is not a balancing factor and should never be treated as such. What a shame.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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|
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
439
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cosgar wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Setting limits to what mercs can field is a bad idea. It takes away the freedom to use what ever the hell you want. CCP please don't do this, next thing you know they will be asking to limit the amount of heavy and light frames too. I"LL REPEAT MYSELF. this is a temporary solution until full AV-Tank balance is achieved. Why bother with limiting vehicles then? Why not just have them continue working on tanks to fix them? I'm very confused now, this post seems counter productive to your goal. I'm trying to figure out his logic too but it's making my head hurt. ''Why bother with limiting vehicles then? ''Easy.Because the game is UNPLAYABLE now. TRy going in solo and have a good ol' match of ambush.Or be winning in a skirmish match only for the enemy to start spamming tanks in order to win. Or play Domination to fight 7 tanks and the rest of the enemy team being snipers. Why bother? because the game is broken at the moment and needs an immediate fix. There is not time for CCP to figure out whats wrong and fix it. Not this time...
I don't know what you are talking about, its playable I'm gonna be getting on at 10 to play some games. Had a buddy I was playing with that had av grenades and scared off all the tanks that came our way, wasn't a problem at all.
If you are winning in a skirmish and the reds call down tanks they aren't very bright, as tanks can't cap points.
I don't play ambush, one protostompers love good ol ambush and I like objects more than team deathmatch, I find it makes the game more interesting.
I feel the same way about domination.
This is just the start of vehicle balancing, ccp is collecting data as we speak. Rushing half baked solutions into the game is only gonna make things worse. They should focus on tanks as that's what everyone is crying about.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8747
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Sounds like it's working as intended. Tanks are force multipliers and the go-to for escalating situations. Been tired of seeing CoD 514 where everyone ran around with nothing but rifles and wondering why the maps are so big. Aside from working out a few kinks in AV balance like WP for damaging vehicles, more heavy AV, and more anti-shield AV, I hope they don't change much. Tanking is finally fun and accessible to anyone willing to try.
''Tanking is finally fun and accessible to anyone willing to try''And thats the problem.Is way too accessible. and remember FUN is a point of view, Driving tanks is NOT fun for me, i do it cuz i must.i want CCP to tell me Tanks are working a intended.That this TANK spam we have in every game, was as intended. And i swear i'll shut up about this idea. If I dont see a blue tag, im calling BS on ''tanks working as intended'' cr4p....
What are you going to do when they add MTACs, speeders, fighter jets, MAV, and carriers? Sounds like you need to HTFU or go hang out in the enclosed sockets if you don't want anything to do with vehicles. Stop trying to ruin everyone else's fun.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3222
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Why not just increase price Tanks are Cheap and rather strong, why not put the price out of range for most but for dedicated tankers it might not be as much of an issue due to their strength especially vs AV. Because tankers would QQ.
Killar, man you have been around for enough time.... Nope, because to quote many AVers (especially when we suggested raising prices for AV back before this build) ISK is not a balancing factor and should never be treated as such. What a shame.
Yeah. True.
Im not saying the cost should be increased!
Im just talking about limits here, chill....
Then again ISK should match the performance of balance would be broken.
Say tomorrow Proto weapons cost 20k intead of current 47+k ?
Balance = Broken.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1481
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread Here is the main thread ^^^^
A it is,im pretty sure that tank vs AV is very balanced.Good job.The only problem is you didnt take into account the fact that nerfing AV,while balancing vehicles,making them CHEAPER than dropsuits in many cases and not changing the restrictions would create TANK SPAM.With your new modules,even a MLT tank can wistand HEAVY prototype Fire from MULTIPLE AV red dots.If you just glance around the first 5 pages of these forums you'll see that the problem is only getting bigger, and this is just the FIRST WEEK of your new patch. Here is a viable solution.as it is vehicles are always an important part of warfare,but at the moment they have become the only part in Dust514 warfare.So far as going into a 10 vs 10 domination match only to fin 6-7 tanks per team and the rest being SNIPERS. please explain how i am supposed to take the Objective in this scenario. My opinion is LIMIT vehicles per team depending on their CLASS:GÖª 2 Tanks / the powerful behemoths that even at MLT level they can prove to be a force to be reckoned with. GÖª 2 Dropships / Usually used as transport, the low 2 DS limit is so that they cannot be used as Monster counter for Tanks.Everyone knows a good DS pailot can be hell for a tanker, so leaving it a 2 vs 2 to prevent DS abuse seems like a good idea. GÖª 3 Lavs / Main transort unit. Very important. With 3 LAv limit a team can easily transport up to 9 people to the objectives and for blitzkrieg strategies. With a team reaching its vehicle quota at 7.Same as now, but without the chance of tank spam. This would help everyone. GÖª Infantry vs infantry will be a viable scenario again (Specially in open maps, that are like 80% of them) GÖª tanks wont get nerfed so tankers happy;even a MLT tankers has a chance to participateGÖª AV Doesnt get buffed BUT the chance to outnumber a tank is bigger there by creating chance to counter GÖª Good tankers will never be OUTNUMBERED severely there by making their SP investment more important. as it is you can be the BEST tanker ever with the best Battle Maddy ever made! BUT if 6 Somas appear you're gonna get f***d regadless. This would help 2 Good tankers take on whatever numbers of crappy MLT somas the enemy throw at them... (a Text should appear on everyon'es screen, upper right side, informing you there is a tank spot available, in the case your blue dots called in tanks before you did as soon as one of them looses one you would have the cahnce to deploy one of your own.) Also , some kind of priority to vehicle users wthat actually invested on said vehicle so that the BETTER player can deploy his vehicle. Say True Adamance has 6 mill in vehicles and i have 800k. Then when the game starts True adamance has a good 30 secs to decide if he want to call in a vehicle and if he doesn't then me and every other scrub can call one.(this is an example of how it might work) You see, the problem is your vision is flawed in the NUMBER OF PLAYERS. you can have 6 tanks on the field, but if you have 32+ players in YOUR team. NOT 16. Maps are to small, we have FEW important objectives and few number of players per team. a Team spamming 6+ tanks can easily maintain advantage over a team not using tanks putting 1 tank on each objective and having one patrol. While the 9 rest infantry just take out AVers easily. Please consider this a an option. Im 100% sure this is what is resulting in umbalanced and un-fun matches for many players. here,. a little glint of what people think of your patch:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129001&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129017&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129023&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128949&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129021&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128228&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129013&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128980&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128768&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129006&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128974&find=unread...
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3222
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:
I don't know what you are talking about, its playable I'm gonna be getting on at 10 to play some games. Had a buddy I was playing with that had av grenades and scared off all the tanks that came our way, wasn't a problem at all.
If you are winning in a skirmish and the reds call down tanks they aren't very bright, as tanks can't cap points.
I don't play ambush, one protostompers love good ol ambush and I like objects more than team deathmatch, I find it makes the game more interesting.
I feel the same way about domination.
This is just the start of vehicle balancing, ccp is collecting data as we speak. Rushing half baked solutions into the game is only gonna make things worse. They should focus on tanks as that's what everyone is crying about.
''Had a buddy I was playing with that had av grenades and scared off all the tanks that came our way, wasn't a problem at all''
SCARED.
What good is ''SCARING'' tanks away? are you getting WP? ISK? NO.You just made him fall back, but when his hardeners are ready he WILL come back an butt plug you, and this time,your AV grenades wont even SCARE him.
''If you are winning in a skirmish and the reds call down tanks they aren't very bright, as tanks can't cap points.''
No they cant, but they sure as hell can cover infantry mobilization. Specially 4+ tanks.
''I don't play ambush, one protostompers love good ol ambush and I like objects more than team deathmatch''
So because you dont like it , its not relevant then? need to get your forum skills up bro.You are saying that because you dont like it it doesnt matter I CANT PLAY AMBUSH because of tanks....? Heh...no wonder...
''I feel the same way about domination.''
Ah ok people im sorry! Pvt Numnutz doesnt play domination nor Ambush so i was wrong the game IS playable after all!
(-.-) You know Ambush and Domination are 50% of the game types dont you? And that thanks to tanks they are unplayable?
''This is just the start of vehicle balancing, ccp is collecting data as we speak. ''
As we speak , players are leaving this ridiculous game because its forcing them to either use tanks or die.
My solution will prevent this from happening any further WHILE CCP collects MORE data.
''. Rushing half baked solutions into the game is only gonna make things worse.''
No it wouldnt. It would make Ambush and DOm playable again, tank spam controlled. And as soon as CCP finds the middle point in balance they remove it.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Lorhak Gannarsein
711
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 02:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:
Some people go about issues the wrong way on these forums......OK a lot of people do. Doing something like the op suggested would take away a fun aspect of the game. You don't know what they may call in, what combination they will use.
LOL @ YOU BRO. Of course i do!
7 tanks.(If they are smart that is) Hard Cap is 5.
Nah, had six blue aside from myself in a pub yesterday. Ambush, I think.
Made it hard to get a kill.
EDIT: And I agree with Checkmate, as long as there's a way to bring mine in at the start.
>Cosgar: You know, tanks are actually paper thin once their modules are in cooldown.
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3227
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 03:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
More of why we need an immediate fix even if its temporal:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129335&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129346&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129323&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129340&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129190&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129334&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129272&find=unread
This is just PAGE ONE.
WE CANNOT wait for CCP to take in ''data'' and wait for 1.8....
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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joe free3
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 04:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread Here is the main thread ^^^^
A it is,im pretty sure that tank vs AV is very balanced.Good job.The only problem is you didnt take into account the fact that nerfing AV,while balancing vehicles,making them CHEAPER than dropsuits in many cases and not changing the restrictions would create TANK SPAM.With your new modules,even a MLT tank can wistand HEAVY prototype Fire from MULTIPLE AV red dots.If you just glance around the first 5 pages of these forums you'll see that the problem is only getting bigger, and this is just the FIRST WEEK of your new patch. Here is a viable solution.as it is vehicles are always an important part of warfare,but at the moment they have become the only part in Dust514 warfare.So far as going into a 10 vs 10 domination match only to fin 6-7 tanks per team and the rest being SNIPERS. please explain how i am supposed to take the Objective in this scenario. My opinion is LIMIT vehicles per team depending on their CLASS:GÖª 2 Tanks / the powerful behemoths that even at MLT level they can prove to be a force to be reckoned with. GÖª 2 Dropships / Usually used as transport, the low 2 DS limit is so that they cannot be used as Monster counter for Tanks.Everyone knows a good DS pailot can be hell for a tanker, so leaving it a 2 vs 2 to prevent DS abuse seems like a good idea. GÖª 3 Lavs / Main transort unit. Very important. With 3 LAv limit a team can easily transport up to 9 people to the objectives and for blitzkrieg strategies. With a team reaching its vehicle quota at 7.Same as now, but without the chance of tank spam. This would help everyone. GÖª Infantry vs infantry will be a viable scenario again (Specially in open maps, that are like 80% of them) GÖª tanks wont get nerfed so tankers happy;even a MLT tankers has a chance to participateGÖª AV Doesnt get buffed BUT the chance to outnumber a tank is bigger there by creating chance to counter GÖª Good tankers will never be OUTNUMBERED severely there by making their SP investment more important. as it is you can be the BEST tanker ever with the best Battle Maddy ever made! BUT if 6 Somas appear you're gonna get f***d regadless. This would help 2 Good tankers take on whatever numbers of crappy MLT somas the enemy throw at them... (a Text should appear on everyon'es screen, upper right side, informing you there is a tank spot available, in the case your blue dots called in tanks before you did as soon as one of them looses one you would have the cahnce to deploy one of your own.) Also , some kind of priority to vehicle users wthat actually invested on said vehicle so that the BETTER player can deploy his vehicle. Say True Adamance has 6 mill in vehicles and i have 800k. Then when the game starts True adamance has a good 30 secs to decide if he want to call in a vehicle and if he doesn't then me and every other scrub can call one.(this is an example of how it might work) You see, the problem is your vision is flawed in the NUMBER OF PLAYERS. you can have 6 tanks on the field, but if you have 32+ players in YOUR team. NOT 16. Maps are to small, we have FEW important objectives and few number of players per team. a Team spamming 6+ tanks can easily maintain advantage over a team not using tanks putting 1 tank on each objective and having one patrol. While the 9 rest infantry just take out AVers easily. Please consider this a an option. Im 100% sure this is what is resulting in umbalanced and un-fun matches for many players. here,. a little glint of what people think of your patch:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129001&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129017&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129023&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128949&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129021&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128228&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129013&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128980&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128768&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129006&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128974&find=unread... |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1277
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Posted - 2013.12.20 00:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
As you are aware I don't agree with this approach.
1) What are you gonna say to mlt tank users for thirty seconds
RDV Request denied - You are a Scrub Get Good
2) So if one team has 2 awesome fully skilled tznkers and the other team is a bunch of randoms, what happens when 1 of them can take on the 2 mlt tanks by himself?
3)What happens when the randoms give up using tanks?
In reality the problem isn't solved its just more concentrated and more likely to play to its ultimatum quicker. In the current situation having enough tanks is why infantry can get by largely unscathed, because they have juicier targets.
Also design oversight if skilled players get a 30 sec headstart do you not think mlt tanks will be redlined before they finish deploying?
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3380
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 00:58:00 -
[50] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:As you are aware I don't agree with this approach.
?
1) It does not need to be necessarily 30 secs. But 15 at least?
RDV request denied - Reserved Tank slot
And maybe add a little timer thingieh.... XD
2)The other team will have ENOUGH infantry to pull off a decent AV attack on the tankers. Not like nowadays , where even with all infantry using AV , 7 tanks can still take them out. the problem is not always the quality,but in the case of tanks the numbers.
Remember 3 tanks are already 16000+ EHP (AT LEAST ) WITH HARDENERS that need to be taken down....
3)What happens when the randoms give up using tanks?
I dont understand why this is a bad thing.
4)In reality the problem isn't solved its just more concentrated and more likely to play to its ultimatum quicker. In the current situation having enough tanks is why infantry can get by largely unscathed, because they have juicier targets.
No.In the current situation having 4+ GOOD tankers on one side makes a game impossible, yup you read right, IMPOSSIBLE to win for infantry.Yesterday,in a pub skirm, we got redlined in Ashland by 5 tanks. There was NOTHING to do, you called in a tank, rail sniped. You took out AV wither a tank killed you because they always had hardeners on OR infantry killed you because you didnt have weaponry appropriate for killing infantry.
Belive me , INFANTRY DOES NOT GET ''UNSCATHED''.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4251
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Posted - 2013.12.20 01:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:4)In reality the problem isn't solved its just more concentrated and more likely to play to its ultimatum quicker. In the current situation having enough tanks is why infantry can get by largely unscathed, because they have juicier targets.
No.In the current situation having 4+ GOOD tankers on one side makes a game impossible, yup you read right, IMPOSSIBLE to win for infantry.Yesterday,in a pub skirm, we got redlined in Ashland by 5 tanks. There was NOTHING to do, you called in a tank, rail sniped. You took out AV wither a tank killed you because they always had hardeners on OR infantry killed you because you didnt have weaponry appropriate for killing infantry.
Belive me , INFANTRY DOES NOT GET ''UNSCATHED''.
That's nice.
I joined a pub match where the enemy team had a wall of tanks redlining us. Guess what I did? I ducked as far back as the redline allowed, went around skirting the edges of the non-lethal area until I was far enough forward to see enemies, then backed up just a little, and dropped an Uplink behind a ridge so my teammates could spawn there.
Then I drew a little fire my way, before falling back and watching as teammates started spawning and drawing enemy fire towards that side of our redline.
I went off towards the other side of it, snuck out past the back end of the tank blockade which was now looking the other way, AND CALLED IN A TANK.
I had a building to cover me against Railgun fire, so their tanks couldn't shoot me down, and I was far enough out of the way not to get murdered on landing. I had time to hop in, get my bearings, then head into combat.
I got lucky rounding the corner into an enemy tank with its hardeners down. BOOM. Next one was an armour tank against my Missiles, and took heavy damage even through its hardener - obviously it had been cycling them for dealing with our infantry and didn't have a second hardener to pop at a moment's notice. That forced them to fall back, breaking the enemy line and letting my team start to move up. Another guy called in his own tank while the enemy blockade was disrupted, and it landed safely, though it took some damage before he could get his actives running. This turned the fight into 2 vs. 5, but that was enough - in conjunction with the couple of AV guys good enough not to have already died - to tip the balance.
No, we didn't wipe out their tanks. No, my tank didn't single-handedly win the day. MY UPLINK DID MORE OF THE WORK THAN MY TANK.
If I had been running my Scout alt instead of my tanker, I'd have used my Uplink fitting, done basically the same thing to start with, but then run around the back of the enemy team and gone to hack the objectives instead of calling in my tank. Obviously, I'd keep an eye out for REs, because they tend not to be too friendly towards Scouts while we hack things. |
CharCharOdell
1800
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 01:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
only if there can only be 5 medium frames, 2 heavies, and 3 scouts. also, no more than 1 forge gun and 1 swarm launcher. everyone else has to use a Frontline starter fit.
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
I like railguns.
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3382
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Posted - 2013.12.20 01:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:only if there can only be 5 medium frames, 2 heavies, and 3 scouts. also, no more than 1 forge gun and 1 swarm launcher. everyone else has to use a Frontline starter fit.
LOL no.
Vehicle =/= infantry.
I know some of you struggle with this but...
@ Garrett Blacknova:Thats nice. cool story bro. The problem is still here.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4251
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 01:53:00 -
[54] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Garrett Blacknova:Thats nice. cool story bro. The problem is still here.
The main problem is stupid people.
Good luck finding a solution with game mechanics that isn't "make CoD in space".
Stupid people will be stupid. Smart people will find ways to exploit their stupidity as long as the game is intelligent enough to allow it.
I've seen multiple games of DUST where a tank-heavy team has either been straight-up dominated by infantry or has had the tides turned by a couple of SMART moves when they were dominating. |
KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3382
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 01:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Garrett Blacknova:Thats nice. cool story bro. The problem is still here. The main problem is stupid people. Good luck finding a solution with game mechanics that isn't "make CoD in space". Stupid people will be stupid. Smart people will find ways to exploit their stupidity as long as the game is intelligent enough to allow it. I've seen multiple games of DUST where a tank-heavy team has either been straight-up dominated by infantry or has had the tides turned by a couple of SMART moves when they were dominating.
You think you are so smart just because they got confident and did not went hunting your butt with Proto scanners?
You just got lucky.. ;)
Whatever you say wont change the fact tanks are too cheap,and tank spam is a problem.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4251
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 02:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:You think you are so smart just because they got confident and did not went hunting your butt with Proto scanners?
You just got lucky.. ;)
Whatever you say wont change the fact tanks are too cheap,and tank spam is a problem.
I think I'm smart because I lured their attention elsewhere USING MY STUPID TEAMMATES before making my move.
It's not luck when it's repeatable and in most matches where the enemy team has tanks and mine doesn't, I see my team taking advantage. Not every time, because there are smart tankers out there, just like there are smart infantry. But more often than not, when my team has no tanks and the enemy has 4+, I'll be seeing a victory screen at the end of the match.
Enemy team has 2 Madrugars, a Soma and a couple of Gunnlogis? I bring a Missile tank and kill 3 of them before dying.
Enemy team is spawn-camping with tanks surrounding our redline? I lure them one way then find a way past on the weaker side.
Enemy team has 4+ tanks patrolling a Domination map covering all ground approaches? I get a friendly Dropship pilot to fly over the objective and bail out in a Scout suit, then set an Uplink on an inaccessible rooftop near the objective.
You don't charge head-first at a tank any more.
I've said elsewhere, and will continue to say it, Militia HAVs are slightly too capable for their price. SLIGHTLY. Restricting vehicles heavily like this thread proposes is NOT a solution. Significant price increases are NOT a solution - it's already easy to double the cost of a full Proto suit when building a decent tank fit. Militia vehicles need a (SLIGHT) nerf, and they'll have performance in line with their price. |
KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3383
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 02:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:4)In reality the problem isn't solved its just more concentrated and more likely to play to its ultimatum quicker. In the current situation having enough tanks is why infantry can get by largely unscathed, because they have juicier targets.
No.In the current situation having 4+ GOOD tankers on one side makes a game impossible, yup you read right, IMPOSSIBLE to win for infantry.Yesterday,in a pub skirm, we got redlined in Ashland by 5 tanks. There was NOTHING to do, you called in a tank, rail sniped. You took out AV wither a tank killed you because they always had hardeners on OR infantry killed you because you didnt have weaponry appropriate for killing infantry.
Belive me , INFANTRY DOES NOT GET ''UNSCATHED''. That's nice. I joined a pub match where the enemy team had a wall of tanks redlining us. Guess what I did? I ducked as far back as the redline allowed, went around skirting the edges of the non-lethal area until I was far enough forward to see enemies, then backed up just a little, and dropped an Uplink behind a ridge so my teammates could spawn there. Then I drew a little fire my way, before falling back and watching as teammates started spawning and drawing enemy fire towards that side of our redline. I went off towards the other side of it, snuck out past the back end of the tank blockade which was now looking the other way, AND CALLED IN A TANK. I had a building to cover me against Railgun fire, so their tanks couldn't shoot me down, and I was far enough out of the way not to get murdered on landing. I had time to hop in, get my bearings, then head into combat. I got lucky rounding the corner into an enemy tank with its hardeners down. BOOM. Next one was an armour tank against my Missiles, and took heavy damage even through its hardener - obviously it had been cycling them for dealing with our infantry and didn't have a second hardener to pop at a moment's notice. That forced them to fall back, breaking the enemy line and letting my team start to move up. Another guy called in his own tank while the enemy blockade was disrupted, and it landed safely, though it took some damage before he could get his actives running. This turned the fight into 2 vs. 5, but that was enough - in conjunction with the couple of AV guys good enough not to have already died - to tip the balance. No, we didn't wipe out their tanks. No, my tank didn't single-handedly win the day. MY UPLINK DID MORE OF THE WORK THAN MY TANK. If I had been running my Scout alt instead of my tanker, I'd have used my Uplink fitting, done basically the same thing to start with, but then run around the back of the enemy team and gone to hack the objectives instead of calling in my tank. Obviously, I'd keep an eye out for REs, because they tend not to be too friendly towards Scouts while we hack things.
Before even considering keeping this argument up:
Question:
DID YOU WIN THAT GAME?
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4251
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 02:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Before even considering keeping this argument up:
Question:
DID YOU WIN THAT GAME?
Yes.
It was a really, REALLY close finish. We were down to 3 clones on my team's side, and our MCC was in critical damage when theirs finally died. As mentioned, when I joined, my team was redlined, and we were pretty far down on clone count, but the enemy only had a small lead on MCC damage and it was early enough to still turn things around (our MCC was a around 1/4 shield strength) |
KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3384
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 03:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:
DID YOU WIN THAT GAME?
Yes. It was a really, REALLY close finish. We were down to 3 clones on my team's side, and our MCC was in critical damage when theirs finally died. As mentioned, when I joined, my team was redlined, and we were pretty far down on clone count, but the enemy only had a small lead on MCC damage and it was early enough to still turn things around (our MCC was a around 1/4 shield strength)
Well i congratulate you on you skills and good strategies. +1
Doesnt change the fact Tank spam is a problem thou.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1530
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 03:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:You think you are so smart just because they got confident and did not went hunting your butt with Proto scanners?
You just got lucky.. ;)
Whatever you say wont change the fact tanks are too cheap,and tank spam is a problem. I think I'm smart because I lured their attention elsewhere USING MY STUPID TEAMMATES before making my move. It's not luck when it's repeatable and in most matches where the enemy team has tanks and mine doesn't, I see my team taking advantage. Not every time, because there are smart tankers out there, just like there are smart infantry. But more often than not, when my team has no tanks and the enemy has 4+, I'll be seeing a victory screen at the end of the match. Enemy team has 2 Madrugars, a Soma and a couple of Gunnlogis? I bring a Missile tank and kill 3 of them before dying. Enemy team is spawn-camping with tanks surrounding our redline? I lure them one way then find a way past on the weaker side. Enemy team has 4+ tanks patrolling a Domination map covering all ground approaches? I get a friendly Dropship pilot to fly over the objective and bail out in a Scout suit, then set an Uplink on an inaccessible rooftop near the objective. You don't charge head-first at a tank any more.
I've said elsewhere, and will continue to say it, Militia HAVs are slightly too capable for their price. SLIGHTLY. Restricting vehicles heavily like this thread proposes is NOT a solution. Significant price increases are NOT a solution - it's already easy to double the cost of a full Proto suit when building a decent tank fit. Militia vehicles need a (SLIGHT) nerf, and they'll have performance in line with their price.
ERRMAGERRD, someone with a brain!? 
Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1278
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Posted - 2013.12.20 11:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:As you are aware I don't agree with this approach.
? 1) It does not need to be necessarily 30 secs. But 15 at least?RDV request denied - Reserved Tank slot And maybe add a little timer thingieh.... XD 2) The other team will have ENOUGH infantry to pull off a decent AV attack on the tankers. Not like nowadays , where even with all infantry using AV , 7 tanks can still take them out. the problem is not always the quality,but in the case of tanks the numbers. Remember 3 tanks are already 16000+ EHP (AT LEAST ) WITH HARDENERS that need to be taken down....3)What happens when the randoms give up using tanks? I dont understand why this is a bad thing.4)In reality the problem isn't solved its just more concentrated and more likely to play to its ultimatum quicker. In the current situation having enough tanks is why infantry can get by largely unscathed, because they have juicier targets. No.In the current situation having 4+ GOOD tankers on one side makes a game impossible, yup you read right, IMPOSSIBLE to win for infantry.Yesterday,in a pub skirm, we got redlined in Ashland by 5 tanks. There was NOTHING to do, you called in a tank, rail sniped. You took out AV wither a tank killed you because they always had hardeners on OR infantry killed you because you didnt have weaponry appropriate for killing infantry. Belive me , INFANTRY DOES NOT GET ''UNSCATHED''.
1) You really think new players are gonna be happy being told they can't deploy a tank because its reserved for someone else?
2)Yes but even now 2 tanks are gonna have you redlined, because most people willmonly have mlt AV y ou could th r ow whole teams of randoms at tanks it won't be enoughl
3)Because when the randoms give up tanks, the tankers start shooting at the infantry
4) 2 good tankers on one side won't make the fight any easier, it will draw out your loss nothing more.
In the current state of play, tanks are pretty much the only thing that will blow up tanks. If you make it harder to field tanks teams have very limited ways of defending themselves from tankers.
It won't make the situation better.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
384
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 12:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread Here is the main thread ^^^^
A it is,im pretty sure that tank vs AV is very balanced.Good job.The only problem is you didnt take into account the fact that nerfing AV,while balancing vehicles,making them CHEAPER than dropsuits in many cases and not changing the restrictions would create TANK SPAM.With your new modules,even a MLT tank can wistand HEAVY prototype Fire from MULTIPLE AV red dots.If you just glance around the first 5 pages of these forums you'll see that the problem is only getting bigger, and this is just the FIRST WEEK of your new patch. Here is a viable solution.as it is vehicles are always an important part of warfare,but at the moment they have become the only part in Dust514 warfare.So far as going into a 10 vs 10 domination match only to fin 6-7 tanks per team and the rest being SNIPERS. please explain how i am supposed to take the Objective in this scenario. My opinion is LIMIT vehicles per team depending on their CLASS:GÖª 2 Tanks / the powerful behemoths that even at MLT level they can prove to be a force to be reckoned with. GÖª 2 Dropships / Usually used as transport, the low 2 DS limit is so that they cannot be used as Monster counter for Tanks.Everyone knows a good DS pailot can be hell for a tanker, so leaving it a 2 vs 2 to prevent DS abuse seems like a good idea. GÖª 3 Lavs / Main transort unit. Very important. With 3 LAv limit a team can easily transport up to 9 people to the objectives and for blitzkrieg strategies. With a team reaching its vehicle quota at 7.Same as now, but without the chance of tank spam. This would help everyone. GÖª Infantry vs infantry will be a viable scenario again (Specially in open maps, that are like 80% of them) GÖª tanks wont get nerfed so tankers happy;even a MLT tankers has a chance to participateGÖª AV Doesnt get buffed BUT the chance to outnumber a tank is bigger there by creating chance to counter GÖª Good tankers will never be OUTNUMBERED severely there by making their SP investment more important. as it is you can be the BEST tanker ever with the best Battle Maddy ever made! BUT if 6 Somas appear you're gonna get f***d regadless. This would help 2 Good tankers take on whatever numbers of crappy MLT somas the enemy throw at them... (a Text should appear on everyon'es screen, upper right side, informing you there is a tank spot available, in the case your blue dots called in tanks before you did as soon as one of them looses one you would have the cahnce to deploy one of your own.) Also , some kind of priority to vehicle users wthat actually invested on said vehicle so that the BETTER player can deploy his vehicle. Say True Adamance has 6 mill in vehicles and i have 800k. Then when the game starts True adamance has a good 30 secs to decide if he want to call in a vehicle and if he doesn't then me and every other scrub can call one.(this is an example of how it might work) You see, the problem is your vision is flawed in the NUMBER OF PLAYERS. you can have 6 tanks on the field, but if you have 32+ players in YOUR team. NOT 16. Maps are to small, we have FEW important objectives and few number of players per team. a Team spamming 6+ tanks can easily maintain advantage over a team not using tanks putting 1 tank on each objective and having one patrol. While the 9 rest infantry just take out AVers easily. Please consider this a an option. Im 100% sure this is what is resulting in umbalanced and un-fun matches for many players. here,. a little glint of what people think of your patch:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129001&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129017&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129023&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128949&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129021&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128228&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129013&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128980&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128768&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129006&find=unreadhttps://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128974&find=unread... |
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
297
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 12:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
Interesting to see the fors and against. I'm guessing there was a limit in place to limit turning into a vehicle based game... and it's half-way there. My guess is if you removed the vehicle restriction entirely , you wouldn't see any infantry any more (if it stays in its current unbalanced state) |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
319
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 13:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Flix Keptick wrote:I'd say 2 tanks in ambush and 3 in skirmish. That would counter spamming pretty well.
But then again I don't want to have to race just to get my gunnlogi before the dude with a mlt tank... That's my only problem, not being able to use what I put nearly all my sp into Maybe introducing some kind of priority to call in your vehicle if you have higher SP in that said vehicle ?
Im sure something can be thought of. But at the moment this vehicle restriction is a MUST, to not break the balance of AV vs Tank and keep the games fun for EVERYONE ....
3 in Skirmish could be too. It aint TOO bad...
Yr text, always hurts my eyes
Nuff Said
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2001
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:09:00 -
[65] - Quote
I have an idea also then
We restrict how many infantry we are allowed also
So only 1 protobear of any suit is allowed in
Only 2 heavys are allowed and also 2 logis with 2 assault frames, the remaining 10spaces are 5 commandos and 5 scouts
Intelligence is OP
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1278
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:11:00 -
[66] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I have an idea also then
We restrict how many infantry we are allowed also
So only 1 protobear of any suit is allowed in
Only 2 heavys are allowed and also 2 logis with 2 assault frames, the remaining 10spaces are 5 commandos and 5 scouts
It would be more akin to saying only 2 heavies per side, don't blow things out of proportion, try actually having a discussion.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2001
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:21:00 -
[67] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I have an idea also then
We restrict how many infantry we are allowed also
So only 1 protobear of any suit is allowed in
Only 2 heavys are allowed and also 2 logis with 2 assault frames, the remaining 10spaces are 5 commandos and 5 scouts It would be more akin to saying only 2 heavies per side, don't blow things out of proportion, try actually having a discussion.
No fair is fair
If you restrict vehicles then we restrict the amount of infantry classes too
Intelligence is OP
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1278
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I have an idea also then
We restrict how many infantry we are allowed also
So only 1 protobear of any suit is allowed in
Only 2 heavys are allowed and also 2 logis with 2 assault frames, the remaining 10spaces are 5 commandos and 5 scouts It would be more akin to saying only 2 heavies per side, don't blow things out of proportion, try actually having a discussion. No fair is fair If you restrict vehicles then we restrict the amount of infantry classes too
Fair is Fair?
Can you really say that? Well Fair is Fair, infantry should be immune to all but rail turrets, Fair is Fair, infantry should be able to restock and heal their suits behind a rock without a supply depot, fair is fair we should be able to have other players join us in our dropsuit and operate ADDITIONAL weapons for us, fair is fair right?
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
1739
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
this would have been a better thread of mine on tanks to include, since is got more likes and attention, and drives home a point many mercs seem to agree with.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128874
stop the lol bans in FW.... instead make teamkillers purple!
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129910&fi
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2001
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I have an idea also then
We restrict how many infantry we are allowed also
So only 1 protobear of any suit is allowed in
Only 2 heavys are allowed and also 2 logis with 2 assault frames, the remaining 10spaces are 5 commandos and 5 scouts It would be more akin to saying only 2 heavies per side, don't blow things out of proportion, try actually having a discussion. No fair is fair If you restrict vehicles then we restrict the amount of infantry classes too Fair is Fair? Can you really say that? Well Fair is Fair, infantry should be immune to all but rail turrets, Fair is Fair, infantry should be able to restock and heal their suits behind a rock without a supply depot, fair is fair we should be able to have other players join us in our dropsuit and operate ADDITIONAL weapons for us, fair is fair right?
Tanks are not immune to everything
Infantry does restock and heal behind a rock, ive done it, nanohive and armor reps
If you want that last option thats fine, you dont get anymore hp for it either and someone has to use the suit and let you get in, also if a bluedot gets in you cant kick em out either, i dont know how ccp will explain it tho, 2 players in 1 suit which is the size of one player
Intelligence is OP
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1278
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I have an idea also then
We restrict how many infantry we are allowed also
So only 1 protobear of any suit is allowed in
Only 2 heavys are allowed and also 2 logis with 2 assault frames, the remaining 10spaces are 5 commandos and 5 scouts It would be more akin to saying only 2 heavies per side, don't blow things out of proportion, try actually having a discussion. No fair is fair If you restrict vehicles then we restrict the amount of infantry classes too Fair is Fair? Can you really say that? Well Fair is Fair, infantry should be immune to all but rail turrets, Fair is Fair, infantry should be able to restock and heal their suits behind a rock without a supply depot, fair is fair we should be able to have other players join us in our dropsuit and operate ADDITIONAL weapons for us, fair is fair right? Tanks are not immune to everything Infantry does restock and heal behind a rock, ive done it, nanohive and armor reps If you want that last option thats fine, you dont get anymore hp for it either and someone has to use the suit and let you get in, also if a bluedot gets in you cant kick em out either, i dont know how ccp will explain it tho, 2 players in 1 suit which is the size of one player
Tanks are pretty much immune to all but three infantry weapons, by percentage wise infantry should be immune to the same percentage of tank weapons.
If your talking about equipment that the same as your active modules, im talking about recalling and redeploying a vehicle.
Who cares fair is fair right, ill just put av weaponry on the additonal people.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2003
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Tanks are pretty much immune to all but three infantry weapons, by percentage wise infantry should be immune to the same percentage of tank weapons.
If your talking about equipment that the same as your active modules, im talking about recalling and redeploying a vehicle.
Who cares fair is fair right, ill just put av weaponry on the additonal people.
PLC/FG/SL/Flux/AV nades/RE/Proxy mines
Infantry has 4k armor?
Equipment is not the same as active modules, also what is a supply depot that i see infantry use to swap stuff?
lol no you wont, you have to be able to fit it on that 1 suit your wearing
Intelligence is OP
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1278
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Posted - 2013.12.20 14:17:00 -
[73] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Tanks are pretty much immune to all but three infantry weapons, by percentage wise infantry should be immune to the same percentage of tank weapons.
If your talking about equipment that the same as your active modules, im talking about recalling and redeploying a vehicle.
Who cares fair is fair right, ill just put av weaponry on the additonal people.
PLC/FG/SL/Flux/AV nades/RE/Proxy mines Infantry has 4k armor? Equipment is not the same as active modules, also what is a supply depot that i see infantry use to swap stuff? lol no you wont, you have to be able to fit it on that 1 suit your wearing
Proxy mines barely do any damage, remote explosives get us aswell
why shouldn't we, fair is fair
equipment isn't EXACTLY the same no, but we get equipment you get active modules
supply depots are fixed locations, fair is fair you either have to go to a supply depot, or we can chamge anywhere
why can't I you can, fair is fair right, so I should be able to fit AV for my passengers and AI for me
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2003
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Posted - 2013.12.20 14:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Tanks are pretty much immune to all but three infantry weapons, by percentage wise infantry should be immune to the same percentage of tank weapons.
If your talking about equipment that the same as your active modules, im talking about recalling and redeploying a vehicle.
Who cares fair is fair right, ill just put av weaponry on the additonal people.
PLC/FG/SL/Flux/AV nades/RE/Proxy mines Infantry has 4k armor? Equipment is not the same as active modules, also what is a supply depot that i see infantry use to swap stuff? lol no you wont, you have to be able to fit it on that 1 suit your wearing Proxy mines barely do any damage, remote explosives get us aswell why shouldn't we, fair is fair equipment isn't EXACTLY the same no, but we get equipment you get active modules supply depots are fixed locations, fair is fair you either have to go to a supply depot, or we can chamge anywhere why can't I you can, fair is fair right, so I should be able to fit AV for my passengers and AI for me
They do damage, stop lying
Okay then 4k armor, problem is you dont have any movement and will take 20mins to move 10m, the dropsuit isnt powerful enough to move
Active modules require more resources than equipment
Okay then, aslong as i dont have to get out or in to swap a tank, it will just instantly swap to whatever tank i choose, so much easier than waiting for a bolas now
Fair is fair, you have to fit the extra weaopns on your suit, your suit will be primary suit and if anyone else gets in they only have access to a weaopn that you cannot use like your secondary, looks like you will using the commando suit then if you want that AV weapon
Intelligence is OP
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1278
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Posted - 2013.12.20 14:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Tanks are pretty much immune to all but three infantry weapons, by percentage wise infantry should be immune to the same percentage of tank weapons.
If your talking about equipment that the same as your active modules, im talking about recalling and redeploying a vehicle.
Who cares fair is fair right, ill just put av weaponry on the additonal people.
PLC/FG/SL/Flux/AV nades/RE/Proxy mines Infantry has 4k armor? Equipment is not the same as active modules, also what is a supply depot that i see infantry use to swap stuff? lol no you wont, you have to be able to fit it on that 1 suit your wearing Proxy mines barely do any damage, remote explosives get us aswell why shouldn't we, fair is fair equipment isn't EXACTLY the same no, but we get equipment you get active modules supply depots are fixed locations, fair is fair you either have to go to a supply depot, or we can chamge anywhere why can't I you can, fair is fair right, so I should be able to fit AV for my passengers and AI for me They do damage, stop lying Okay then 4k armor, problem is you dont have any movement and will take 20mins to move 10m, the dropsuit isnt powerful enough to move Active modules require more resources than equipment Okay then, aslong as i dont have to get out or in to swap a tank, it will just instantly swap to whatever tank i choose, so much easier than waiting for a bolas now Fair is fair, you have to fit the extra weaopns on your suit, your suit will be primary suit and if anyone else gets in they only have access to a weaopn that you cannot use like your secondary, looks like you will using the commando suit then if you want that AV weapon
And this why 'fair is fair' doesn't work, so would you like to get back to the matter at hand or keep going until tanks and dropsuits are the same thing? cause that is where fair is fair takes us, no sp, no isk, no suits, no tactics just COD on bigger maps.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2003
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Posted - 2013.12.20 14:48:00 -
[76] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
And this why 'fair is fair' doesn't work, so would you like to get back to the matter at hand or keep going until tanks and dropsuits are the same thing? cause that is where fair is fair takes us, no sp, no isk, no suits, no tactics just COD on bigger maps.
But it does
By saying only 2 tanks allowed it means i cannot use what im skilled into
So by saying you can only have 2 heavy suits and 2 logi and 2 assault and the rest have to go commando/scout it means i am also preventing you from doing what you primarly skilled into
You restrict me and i restrict you hence why a quota is BS and wont work because its whoever spawns the fastest and gets ther stuff in
Intelligence is OP
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1278
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Posted - 2013.12.20 14:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
And this why 'fair is fair' doesn't work, so would you like to get back to the matter at hand or keep going until tanks and dropsuits are the same thing? cause that is where fair is fair takes us, no sp, no isk, no suits, no tactics just COD on bigger maps.
But it does By saying only 2 tanks allowed it means i cannot use what im skilled into So by saying you can only have 2 heavy suits and 2 logi and 2 assault and the rest have to go commando/scout it means i am also preventing you from doing what you primarly skilled into You restrict me and i restrict you hence why a quota is BS and wont work because its whoever spawns the fastest and gets ther stuff in
wont work because its whoever spawns the fastest and gets ther stuff in
now read my post before I start arguing with you.
Stop using tanker logic, you might find people are more accepting of your points.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4274
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Posted - 2013.12.22 10:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Tanks are pretty much immune to all but three infantry weapons, by percentage wise infantry should be immune to the same percentage of tank weapons.
If your talking about equipment that the same as your active modules, im talking about recalling and redeploying a vehicle.
Who cares fair is fair right, ill just put av weaponry on the additonal people.
OK. Tanks are immune to most infantry weapons. So only the anti-infantry turrets should be particularly effective against infantry. Blasters remain unchanged, because they're already intended as anti-infantry, and they do the job well (even though ARs out-DPS them). Missile turrets are impractical as anti-infantry, but with some luck, you can catch someone in the splash and get an assist - kind of similar to how Flux Grenades can help with a kill but not complete it themselves, or how Plasma Cannons require at least as much blind luck as skill to hit a fast-moving tank, or how Prox Mines don't really hit hard enough to be truly viable AV weapons in their own right (all of which are the excess weapons you ignored on your claim of only 3 AV weapons). Railguns already can't land direct hits on moving infantry without a ridiculous amount of luck, so they need splash hits in order to hurt, particularly at range, and when you get in close, infantry movement is faster than the turn speed of Rail turrets, so they don't need a nerf either. MAYBE a slight reduction in splash radius or damage. MAYBE.
So the same thing as infantry going to a supply depot and swapping suits for instant health regen, except that unlike vehicles, you can't get shot while you're waiting for your suit to respawn, then have it hacked and stolen by the enemy before the automated lock lets your teammates (or even your squadmates) hop in. Maybe you should only be able to recall a vehicle in a designated safe zone - most people fall back behind friendly lines anyway. Maybe you could have to recall your tank from behind the redline, or within X metres of a supply depot or a friendly objective.
And having lots of AV guys is fair. Sometimes a team heavy in infantry with Rifles gets steamrolled by tanks. Sometimes a team with lots of tanks should run into a bunch of AV guys working together and get themselves slaughtered - unfortunately, that doesn't happen too often, because most AV players fail to communicate and work together effectively when fighting against multiple tanks. |
KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3448
|
Posted - 2013.12.22 18:01:00 -
[79] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I have an idea also then
We restrict how many infantry we are allowed also
So only 1 protobear of any suit is allowed in
Only 2 heavys are allowed and also 2 logis with 2 assault frames, the remaining 10spaces are 5 commandos and 5 scouts It would be more akin to saying only 2 heavies per side, don't blow things out of proportion, try actually having a discussion. No fair is fair If you restrict vehicles then we restrict the amount of infantry classes too
PROTO INFANTRY can be taken down by MLT weaponry.
MLT Vehicles,specially tanks,cant be taken down my PROTO Weapons.
Its by no means the same , and you are stupid for implying so.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
893
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Posted - 2013.12.28 22:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Before even considering keeping this argument up:
Question:
DID YOU WIN THAT GAME? Yes. It was a really, REALLY close finish. We were down to 3 clones on my team's side, and our MCC was in critical damage when theirs finally died. As mentioned, when I joined, my team was redlined, and we were pretty far down on clone count, but the enemy only had a small lead on MCC damage and it was early enough to still turn things around (our MCC was a around 1/4 shield strength)
2 follow up questions.
1) Did you or anyone else on your team go ISK positive or K/D positive?
2) What is the point of enduring getting run over, fighting as hard as you can against unbalanced mechanics, working to do everything you can to keep your team in the fight, and going negative in everything this game tracks, just to barely eek out a win in a pub match when the whole point of pubs now is to grind ISK for FW?
Buff passive scans & fix TTK!
My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
896
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Posted - 2013.12.28 22:42:00 -
[81] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: [.....] Missile turrets are impractical as anti-infantry, but with some luck, you can catch someone in the splash and get an assist [.....]
False. Missile tanks are harder to get kills with due to their spread, but I've seen it happen plenty. A direct hit is an OHK in every case I've seen so far, and they can spam missiles fast enough that it isn't so much luck as it is a matter of time. Saying a large missile can't kill infantry doesn't make it true.
Garrett Blacknova wrote: [.....]Railguns already can't land direct hits on moving infantry without a ridiculous amount of luck, so they need splash hits in order to hurt [.....]
Also false. Have actually seen this almost as much as blasters killing infantry. Have had it happen to me SEVERAL times while AVing. You CAN get too close to them, but due to their speed all they have to do is move 3 seconds in one direction, and suddenly they have room to turn as far as they need to and line up a shot
Garrett Blacknova wrote: So the same thing as infantry going to a supply depot and swapping suits for instant health regen, except that unlike vehicles, you can't get shot while you're waiting for your suit to respawn, then have it hacked and stolen by the enemy before the automated lock lets your teammates (or even your squadmates) hop in. Maybe you should only be able to recall a vehicle in a designated safe zone - most people fall back behind friendly lines anyway. Maybe you could have to recall your tank from behind the redline, or within X metres of a supply depot or a friendly objective.
Poor comparison, though interesting ideas. Not going into it though, been posting FAR too much on the topic today to re-type it all here.
Garrett Blacknova wrote: And having lots of AV guys is fair. Sometimes a team heavy in infantry with Rifles gets steamrolled by tanks. Sometimes a team with lots of tanks should run into a bunch of AV guys working together and get themselves slaughtered - unfortunately, that doesn't happen too often, because most AV players fail to communicate and work together effectively when fighting against multiple tanks.
Takes 3-4 REALLY good AV players working together to kill/hold off 1 REALLY good tanker.
So if 5 REALLY good tankers make a squad (haven't seen this much, but it does seem to happen more often in Domination in my experience), it takes 3-4 REALLY good AV to deal with each one. IF you can manage to run only 3 per tank, that's 15 players running AV. IF they are all REALLY good AV and can at least hold off the tankers, that leaves 1 infantry guy trying to hack, protect the AV players, and try to generally run the match against the 11 other infantry players in the match. And that's IF your team is 100% organized and working together.
Guess what? That's not balanced. It was, in fact, more balanced pre-1.7 even though things leaned towards AV rather that leaning towards vehicles.
Buff passive scans & fix TTK!
My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
896
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Posted - 2013.12.28 22:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Flix Keptick wrote:I'd say 2 tanks in ambush and 3 in skirmish. That would counter spamming pretty well.
But then again I don't want to have to race just to get my gunnlogi before the dude with a mlt tank... That's my only problem, not being able to use what I put nearly all my sp into Maybe introducing some kind of priority to call in your vehicle if you have higher SP in that said vehicle ?
Im sure something can be thought of. But at the moment this vehicle restriction is a MUST, to not break the balance of AV vs Tank and keep the games fun for EVERYONE ....
3 in Skirmish could be too. It aint TOO bad... Yr text, always hurts my eyes
Funny.... I actually find the bold to be quite soothing on the old peepers. Nice and large, clear and distinct. If it was alternated a lot it would be a pain, but it's kinda nice when it's ALL bold.
Buff passive scans & fix TTK!
My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
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