Why bother with limiting vehicles then? Why not just have them continue working on tanks to fix them? I'm very confused now, this post seems counter productive to your goal.

I'm trying to figure out his logic too but it's making my head hurt.

ccp already sets limits. here's 2 examples.

1 only 16 players on a team.

2. ever get that message when calling in a vehicle that its been denied because your team already has to many on the field...?

yeah setting limits.... do you play dust or do you just defend ccp on the forums?

because I swear every post from you is countering a thread describing a real issue in dust.

you are either #1 fanboi or secretly trying to sabotage the game.

if its the former then I hate you, if its the latter then I love you.

Some people go about issues the wrong way on these forums......OK a lot of people do. Doing something like the op suggested would take away a fun aspect of the game. You don't know what they may call in, what combination they will use.

LOL @ YOU BRO. Of course i do!

7 tanks.

(If they are smart that is)

''Why bother with limiting vehicles then? ''

Easy.Because the game is UNPLAYABLE now.

TRy going in solo and have a good ol' match of ambush.
Or be winning in a skirmish match only for the enemy to start spamming tanks in order to win.
Or play Domination to fight 7 tanks and the rest of the enemy team being snipers.

Why bother? because the game is broken at the moment and needs an immediate fix.

There is not time for CCP to figure out whats wrong and fix it. Not this time...

Sounds like it's working as intended. Tanks are force multipliers and the go-to for escalating situations. Been tired of seeing CoD 514 where everyone ran around with nothing but rifles and wondering why the maps are so big. Aside from working out a few kinks in AV balance like WP for damaging vehicles, more heavy AV, and more anti-shield AV, I hope they don't change much. Tanking is finally fun and accessible to anyone willing to try.

Why not just increase price Tanks are Cheap and rather strong, why not put the price out of range for most but for dedicated tankers it might not be as much of an issue due to their strength especially vs AV.

''Why bother with limiting vehicles then? ''

Easy.Because the game is UNPLAYABLE now.

TRy going in solo and have a good ol' match of ambush.
Or be winning in a skirmish match only for the enemy to start spamming tanks in order to win.
Or play Domination to fight 7 tanks and the rest of the enemy team being snipers.

Why bother? because the game is broken at the moment and needs an immediate fix.

There is not time for CCP to figure out whats wrong and fix it. Not this time...

''Tanking is finally fun and accessible to anyone willing to try''
And thats the problem.Is way too accessible. and remember FUN is a point of view, Driving tanks is NOT fun for me, i do it cuz i must.

i want CCP to tell me Tanks are working a intended.
That this TANK spam we have in every game, was as intended.
And i swear i'll shut up about this idea.

If I dont see a blue tag, im calling BS on ''tanks working as intended'' cr4p....

Nope, because to quote many AVers (especially when we suggested raising prices for AV back before this build)
ISK is not a balancing factor and should never be treated as such. What a shame.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread

Here is the main thread ^^^^

---

A it is,im pretty sure that tank vs AV is very balanced.
Good job.

The only problem is you didnt take into account the fact that nerfing AV,while balancing vehicles,making them CHEAPER than dropsuits in many cases and not changing the restrictions would create TANK SPAM.

With your new modules,even a MLT tank can wistand HEAVY prototype Fire from MULTIPLE AV red dots.
If you just glance around the first 5 pages of these forums you'll see that the problem is only getting bigger, and this is just the FIRST WEEK of your new patch.

Here is a viable solution.
as it is vehicles are always an important part of warfare,but at the moment they have become the only part in Dust514 warfare.So far as going into a 10 vs 10 domination match only to fin 6-7 tanks per team and the rest being SNIPERS.
please explain how i am supposed to take the Objective in this scenario.

My opinion is LIMIT vehicles per team depending on their CLASS:

GÖª 2 Tanks / the powerful behemoths that even at MLT level they can prove to be a force to be reckoned with.
GÖª 2 Dropships / Usually used as transport, the low 2 DS limit is so that they cannot be used as Monster counter for Tanks.Everyone knows a good DS pailot can be hell for a tanker, so leaving it a 2 vs 2 to prevent DS abuse seems like a good idea.
GÖª 3 Lavs / Main transort unit. Very important. With 3 LAv limit a team can easily transport up to 9 people to the objectives and for blitzkrieg strategies.

With a team reaching its vehicle quota at 7.Same as now, but without the chance of tank spam.

This would help everyone.
GÖª Infantry vs infantry will be a viable scenario again (Specially in open maps, that are like 80% of them)
GÖª tanks wont get nerfed so tankers happy;even a MLT tankers has a chance to participate
GÖª AV Doesnt get buffed BUT the chance to outnumber a tank is bigger there by creating chance to counter
GÖª Good tankers will never be OUTNUMBERED severely there by making their SP investment more important.
as it is you can be the BEST tanker ever with the best Battle Maddy ever made!
BUT if 6 Somas appear you're gonna get f***d regadless. This would help 2 Good tankers take on whatever numbers of crappy MLT somas the enemy throw at them...

(a Text should appear on everyon'es screen, upper right side, informing you there is a tank spot available, in the case your blue dots called in tanks before you did as soon as one of them looses one you would have the cahnce to deploy one of your own.)
Also , some kind of priority to vehicle users wthat actually invested on said vehicle so that the BETTER player can deploy his vehicle. Say True Adamance has 6 mill in vehicles and i have 800k. Then when the game starts True adamance has a good 30 secs to decide if he want to call in a vehicle and if he doesn't then me and every other scrub can call one.(this is an example of how it might work)

You see, the problem is your vision is flawed in the NUMBER OF PLAYERS.
you can have 6 tanks on the field, but if you have 32+ players in YOUR team. NOT 16.
Maps are to small, we have FEW important objectives and few number of players per team. a Team spamming 6+ tanks can easily maintain advantage over a team not using tanks putting 1 tank on each objective and having one patrol. While the 9 rest infantry just take out AVers easily.

Please consider this a an option. Im 100% sure this is what is resulting in umbalanced and un-fun matches for many players.

here,. a little glint of what people think of your patch:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129001&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129017&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129023&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128949&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129021&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128228&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129013&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128980&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128768&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129006&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128974&find=unread...

---

Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.

I don't know what you are talking about, its playable I'm gonna be getting on at 10 to play some games. Had a buddy I was playing with that had av grenades and scared off all the tanks that came our way, wasn't a problem at all.
If you are winning in a skirmish and the reds call down tanks they aren't very bright, as tanks can't cap points.
I don't play ambush, one protostompers love good ol ambush and I like objects more than team deathmatch, I find it makes the game more interesting.
I feel the same way about domination.

This is just the start of vehicle balancing, ccp is collecting data as we speak. Rushing half baked solutions into the game is only gonna make things worse. They should focus on tanks as that's what everyone is crying about.

Hard Cap is 5.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128947&find=unread

Here is the main thread ^^^^

---

A it is,im pretty sure that tank vs AV is very balanced.
Good job.

The only problem is you didnt take into account the fact that nerfing AV,while balancing vehicles,making them CHEAPER than dropsuits in many cases and not changing the restrictions would create TANK SPAM.

With your new modules,even a MLT tank can wistand HEAVY prototype Fire from MULTIPLE AV red dots.
If you just glance around the first 5 pages of these forums you'll see that the problem is only getting bigger, and this is just the FIRST WEEK of your new patch.

Here is a viable solution.
as it is vehicles are always an important part of warfare,but at the moment they have become the only part in Dust514 warfare.So far as going into a 10 vs 10 domination match only to fin 6-7 tanks per team and the rest being SNIPERS.
please explain how i am supposed to take the Objective in this scenario.

My opinion is LIMIT vehicles per team depending on their CLASS:

GÖª 2 Tanks / the powerful behemoths that even at MLT level they can prove to be a force to be reckoned with.
GÖª 2 Dropships / Usually used as transport, the low 2 DS limit is so that they cannot be used as Monster counter for Tanks.Everyone knows a good DS pailot can be hell for a tanker, so leaving it a 2 vs 2 to prevent DS abuse seems like a good idea.
GÖª 3 Lavs / Main transort unit. Very important. With 3 LAv limit a team can easily transport up to 9 people to the objectives and for blitzkrieg strategies.

With a team reaching its vehicle quota at 7.Same as now, but without the chance of tank spam.

This would help everyone.
GÖª Infantry vs infantry will be a viable scenario again (Specially in open maps, that are like 80% of them)
GÖª tanks wont get nerfed so tankers happy;even a MLT tankers has a chance to participate
GÖª AV Doesnt get buffed BUT the chance to outnumber a tank is bigger there by creating chance to counter
GÖª Good tankers will never be OUTNUMBERED severely there by making their SP investment more important.
as it is you can be the BEST tanker ever with the best Battle Maddy ever made!
BUT if 6 Somas appear you're gonna get f***d regadless. This would help 2 Good tankers take on whatever numbers of crappy MLT somas the enemy throw at them...

(a Text should appear on everyon'es screen, upper right side, informing you there is a tank spot available, in the case your blue dots called in tanks before you did as soon as one of them looses one you would have the cahnce to deploy one of your own.)
Also , some kind of priority to vehicle users wthat actually invested on said vehicle so that the BETTER player can deploy his vehicle. Say True Adamance has 6 mill in vehicles and i have 800k. Then when the game starts True adamance has a good 30 secs to decide if he want to call in a vehicle and if he doesn't then me and every other scrub can call one.(this is an example of how it might work)

You see, the problem is your vision is flawed in the NUMBER OF PLAYERS.
you can have 6 tanks on the field, but if you have 32+ players in YOUR team. NOT 16.
Maps are to small, we have FEW important objectives and few number of players per team. a Team spamming 6+ tanks can easily maintain advantage over a team not using tanks putting 1 tank on each objective and having one patrol. While the 9 rest infantry just take out AVers easily.

Please consider this a an option. Im 100% sure this is what is resulting in umbalanced and un-fun matches for many players.

here,. a little glint of what people think of your patch:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129001&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129017&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129023&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128949&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129021&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128228&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129013&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128980&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128768&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129006&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128974&find=unread...

As you are aware I don't agree with this approach.
?

4)In reality the problem isn't solved its just more concentrated and more likely to play to its ultimatum quicker. In the current situation having enough tanks is why infantry can get by largely unscathed, because they have juicier targets.

No.In the current situation having 4+ GOOD tankers on one side makes a game impossible, yup you read right, IMPOSSIBLE to win for infantry.Yesterday,in a pub skirm, we got redlined in Ashland by 5 tanks. There was NOTHING to do, you called in a tank, rail sniped. You took out AV wither a tank killed you because they always had hardeners on OR infantry killed you because you didnt have weaponry appropriate for killing infantry.
Belive me , INFANTRY DOES NOT GET ''UNSCATHED''.

only if there can only be 5 medium frames, 2 heavies, and 3 scouts. also, no more than 1 forge gun and 1 swarm launcher. everyone else has to use a Frontline starter fit.

The main problem is stupid people.

Good luck finding a solution with game mechanics that isn't "make CoD in space".

Stupid people will be stupid. Smart people will find ways to exploit their stupidity as long as the game is intelligent enough to allow it.

I've seen multiple games of DUST where a tank-heavy team has either been straight-up dominated by infantry or has had the tides turned by a couple of SMART moves when they were dominating.

That's nice.

I joined a pub match where the enemy team had a wall of tanks redlining us. Guess what I did? I ducked as far back as the redline allowed, went around skirting the edges of the non-lethal area until I was far enough forward to see enemies, then backed up just a little, and dropped an Uplink behind a ridge so my teammates could spawn there.

Then I drew a little fire my way, before falling back and watching as teammates started spawning and drawing enemy fire towards that side of our redline.

I went off towards the other side of it, snuck out past the back end of the tank blockade which was now looking the other way, AND CALLED IN A TANK.

I had a building to cover me against Railgun fire, so their tanks couldn't shoot me down, and I was far enough out of the way not to get murdered on landing. I had time to hop in, get my bearings, then head into combat.

I got lucky rounding the corner into an enemy tank with its hardeners down. BOOM. Next one was an armour tank against my Missiles, and took heavy damage even through its hardener - obviously it had been cycling them for dealing with our infantry and didn't have a second hardener to pop at a moment's notice. That forced them to fall back, breaking the enemy line and letting my team start to move up. Another guy called in his own tank while the enemy blockade was disrupted, and it landed safely, though it took some damage before he could get his actives running. This turned the fight into 2 vs. 5, but that was enough - in conjunction with the couple of AV guys good enough not to have already died - to tip the balance.

No, we didn't wipe out their tanks. No, my tank didn't single-handedly win the day. MY UPLINK DID MORE OF THE WORK THAN MY TANK.

If I had been running my Scout alt instead of my tanker, I'd have used my Uplink fitting, done basically the same thing to start with, but then run around the back of the enemy team and gone to hack the objectives instead of calling in my tank. Obviously, I'd keep an eye out for REs, because they tend not to be too friendly towards Scouts while we hack things.

Before even considering keeping this argument up:







Question:






DID YOU WIN THAT GAME?

Yes.

It was a really, REALLY close finish. We were down to 3 clones on my team's side, and our MCC was in critical damage when theirs finally died. As mentioned, when I joined, my team was redlined, and we were pretty far down on clone count, but the enemy only had a small lead on MCC damage and it was early enough to still turn things around (our MCC was a around 1/4 shield strength)

I think I'm smart because I lured their attention elsewhere USING MY STUPID TEAMMATES before making my move.

It's not luck when it's repeatable and in most matches where the enemy team has tanks and mine doesn't, I see my team taking advantage. Not every time, because there are smart tankers out there, just like there are smart infantry. But more often than not, when my team has no tanks and the enemy has 4+, I'll be seeing a victory screen at the end of the match.

Enemy team has 2 Madrugars, a Soma and a couple of Gunnlogis? I bring a Missile tank and kill 3 of them before dying.
Enemy team is spawn-camping with tanks surrounding our redline? I lure them one way then find a way past on the weaker side.
Enemy team has 4+ tanks patrolling a Domination map covering all ground approaches? I get a friendly Dropship pilot to fly over the objective and bail out in a Scout suit, then set an Uplink on an inaccessible rooftop near the objective.

You don't charge head-first at a tank any more.

---

I've said elsewhere, and will continue to say it, Militia HAVs are slightly too capable for their price. SLIGHTLY. Restricting vehicles heavily like this thread proposes is NOT a solution. Significant price increases are NOT a solution - it's already easy to double the cost of a full Proto suit when building a decent tank fit. Militia vehicles need a (SLIGHT) nerf, and they'll have performance in line with their price.