The question is how much time you spent in active mode on the bridge vs. time hiding, and did that balance the extra DPS you brought to bear?

At 41/0 it seems that your HAV made you at least as effective as two infantry units. If your side had four HAVs it would be the equivalent of having 20 players on your side.

If that becomes the norm, then each side will run as many HAVs as they can and still cap objectives. In Ambush that may mean 100% tanks.

With the current levels of tank speed i do expect webifiers to be put in next to counter act it

Also 1 hardener for each tank? lolno because without hardeners the tank is squishy as it is, thats the whole point of active hardeners but they come with a big consequence of PG/CPU

The problem with HAV vs. AV is that they removed PRO HAV's but didn't remove PRO AV ...

The way it should work is -
MLT/STD AV counters MLT/STD Vehicles - Installations
ADV AV counters ADV Vehicles
PRO AV counters PRO Vehicles

When they removed PRO HAV's they had to rebalance AV , so that now -
MLT/STD AV counters MLT/STD LAV's - Installations - Ineffective vs. HAV's or Dropships
ADV AV counters ADV LAV - MIL/STD HAV and Dropships
PRO AV counters ADV HAV and Dropships (but not very well)

Until they either add back PRO HAV's and rebalance, or remove PRO AV and rebalance, the AV vs. Vehicles will always be broken.

The question is how much time you spent in active mode on the bridge vs. time hiding, and did that balance the extra DPS you brought to bear?

At 41/0 it seems that your HAV made you at least as effective as two infantry units. If your side had four HAVs it would be the equivalent of having 20 players on your side.

If that becomes the norm, then each side will run as many HAVs as they can and still cap objectives. In Ambush that may mean 100% tanks.

Oh wow aswesome, then we would need 1 guy to web it and 3 guys to shoot it to counter 1 guy in a tank that costs roughly as much as my proto-suit.....

Teamworks hurts

You want to solo with an AR?

How about we put restrictions on suits too so you can only have 1 dmg mod 1 rep 1 plate etc

We have restrictions. Infantry doesn't get to be invulnerable. That's a pretty big drawback compared to vehicles.

Neither do we without active hardeners

Infantry has zero access to hardener modules.

With access to hardener modules comes the need for some counterbalance.

There has to be some restrictions on vehicle use of hardeners since infantry gets NO use of them.

That's the point of comparison, not armor plates or damage mods.

So you want infantry to have hardeners?

Neither do we without active hardeners

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

We are speaking about balancing infantry and vehicles, therefore we have to address the differences.

Double post, sorry: Skihids for CPM!!!!!!!


Edit:


I did warn you didn't I? Like argueing with a 5 year old. I should know, my kid's 7 and still hasn't grown out of it.

Double edit (on a double post.... hmmm who'da think it....):

If you keep this shizz up Skihids, you are gonna end up farming a LOT of likes off of me.

Hello.

So as usual with most of my longer posts, CCP I must state this is a general discussion not feedback nor any other board you feel necessary to place it in, while I would like you to read and take interest in the following ideas, I would like to start a discussion with the community, most of which spend their time in GD rather than feedback.

So onto the topic of my post, the balancing of AV and Vehicles. There's a problem and a rather large problem that presents itself currently, now before anyone QQs about me being an AV scrub crying about tanks, I am an experienced Tanker and many times I have been biased in the vehicle favour and despite loving this build (am loving it) there is a line in which must admit we're strong for what we are.

In this post I suggested we look at removing the speed of the Tanks, not just their nitrous injectors, but their overall movement speed, because it's unfair to those who wait around for their hardeners to drop, timing it correctly only to have the enemy speed away.

But I don't think this will be the end of balance, and I also don't think balance can be achieved with the current items in play. You see, if AVers and Tankers continue to ***** at one another and demand nerfs and buffs to their play styles, we're going to be in a never ending tug of war, personally it's not one I'm going to enjoy if we continue this, as many of you feel throughout these nerfs and buffs. Over time we've had godly tanks, then godly AV, then other random things and now we're here, Tanks are strong, AV isn't as strong but can still kill things though not very easily. Which while Tankers will claim it's only fair because teamwork makes tanks easy kills, so? Tanks using teamwork make for easy games full stop.

So what we actually need is more content, rather than fight over the same things as of old, we need new ways to kill each other. We've got a great platform right now, you cannot deny these things are a lot more challenging and fun to fight, especially if you're smart, but still (most of the time) offer a way to kill them through vulnerabilities in their actives.

So in list format, we need things like these:

• Speed Nerfs - Tanks run away too easily, it's ridiculous
• One Hardener on a fit - imo, though I do not speak the views of everyone, two-three hardener setups are ridiculous, and if we ever get advanced/proto tanks with these it's just going to be sad
• Webifiers - EVE Desc. These things would slow tanks down to a crawl, perhaps Grenade and Mine format, allow Infantry to trigger mines (or both, I'm not your mother)
• Webifier Counters - The ability to counter a webifier mine/grenade, by activating a module that sends out a wave removing the one that hit you, long cooldowns of course.
• EMP Weaponry - Weaponry that increases cooldowns, or removes the active on at the time, or just decreases the duration left on the vehicle
• EMP shielding - more sacrifices allowing you to be immune/less affected by EMP weapons

Honestly there's a lot more we can think of if we put our heads together offering viable attacks and counters to make it fair for both parties, it increases diversity and makes the game a lot more enjoyable for all.

And before people say "CCP needs to add all these graphics and effects for this to work", you don't. For webifiers, you need a funky sound effect, and maybe something showing the vehicle slowing down, but EMPs just need flux like animations.

Again, this platform is wonderful, it's more interesting and more of a laugh, numbers don't mean **** in tank battles any more either, just timing and tactics. If anything else should be added for tanks, it should be more viability to assist one another through the use of modules that buff/debuff other vehicles.

Thank you for reading, if you read this far, for the TL;DR just read the list and then say something about it, I'll answer you back asap, that is if anyone actually interested in reading this -¼_-¼

EDIT: IMPORTANT, NITROUS GLITCH IS FIXED.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128294&find=unread

Yes, yes you did.

But I can't help it. I really want this game to succeed and to be fun for everyone (which is pretty much the same thing).

I assume that everyone is rational until liven otherwise.

Problem with that is that if you start new players out with the worst handling and worst performing tank possible, they'd hardly be incentivized to skill into it, and even if they were it wouldn't be terribly fun until they did, don't you think?

Lol at all the chump like people arguing about a dead game. Lol where is your potential now?

i think that new players should have to work towards having a tank skill right now the game is beyond unbalanced to the point of losing players. however if its unavoidable that this low level bad ass tank behavior is by design and not by error can you then limit the number of tanks that can be deployed by a team to a max of two tanks and two dropships at the same time because a team of 16 versus 5 indestructible tanks is beyond broken. it has quite literally ruined my experience of the game.

We had damage-based WP many moons ago but they were removed because of WP farming. Now, however, we have a global limiter that prevents mass-WP farming so it's definitely something I'd like to add back. If it's not possible to hot-fix in I'll poke the guys about getting in for 1.8. I think it's fair enough that you get rewarded for chasing off vehicles if not being able to outright destroy them.

That said, we hot-fixed the militia fuel injector last night. And right now we're testing increased recharge times on fuel injectors and slightly reduced speed on HAVs.

Problem with that is that if you start new players out with the worst handling and worst performing tank possible, they'd hardly be incentivized to skill into it, and even if they were it wouldn't be terribly fun until they did, don't you think?

...My view of OP is if something cannot be killed at all, not even itself. You can still eradicate tanks, just much more difficult then 1.6. I seen my fair share of tanks this build getting destroyed by tanks and forge guns, and even AV nades. so yeah, AV may not be as useful, but still are all the same.

The only problem is when there is 7 of them on the field at once. Then AV just becomes mosquitoes.

I think that is one of the reasons why they are becoming OP, they are cheap and can just be fielded and if destroyed, only loses a coupled hundred thousand ISK....