I think the tank speed is an indication that we'll be getting webs in 1.8.

I propose we remove fuel injectors and give a 75% buff to the intelligence of AVers. Maybe have an air raid siren going off continuously while HAVs have their hardeners down? I don't think the glowing-hotter-than-the-sun hardener effect we have right now is really getting through to AVers that the tank has it's hardener on and has high resistance at the moment.


P.S. I honestly mean the thing about fuel injectors, I never use the damn things anyway my tank is fast enough without it and it's bugged so its kinda a douche move right now.

I don't think the glowing-hotter-than-the-sun hardener effect we have right now is really getting through to AVers that the tank has it's hardener on and has high resistance at the moment.

This would be a decent argument if said hardener effect actually rendered at any useful range.

Hello.

So as usual with most of my longer posts, CCP I must state this is a general discussion not feedback nor any other board you feel necessary to place it in, while I would like you to read and take interest in the following ideas, I would like to start a discussion with the community, most of which spend their time in GD rather than feedback.

So onto the topic of my post, the balancing of AV and Vehicles. There's a problem and a rather large problem that presents itself currently, now before anyone QQs about me being an AV scrub crying about tanks, I am an experienced Tanker and many times I have been biased in the vehicle favour and despite loving this build (am loving it) there is a line in which must admit we're strong for what we are.

In this post I suggested we look at removing the speed of the Tanks, not just their nitrous injectors, but their overall movement speed, because it's unfair to those who wait around for their hardeners to drop, timing it correctly only to have the enemy speed away.

But I don't think this will be the end of balance, and I also don't think balance can be achieved with the current items in play. You see, if AVers and Tankers continue to ***** at one another and demand nerfs and buffs to their play styles, we're going to be in a never ending tug of war, personally it's not one I'm going to enjoy if we continue this, as many of you feel throughout these nerfs and buffs. Over time we've had godly tanks, then godly AV, then other random things and now we're here, Tanks are strong, AV isn't as strong but can still kill things though not very easily. Which while Tankers will claim it's only fair because teamwork makes tanks easy kills, so? Tanks using teamwork make for easy games full stop.

So what we actually need is more content, rather than fight over the same things as of old, we need new ways to kill each other. We've got a great platform right now, you cannot deny these things are a lot more challenging and fun to fight, especially if you're smart, but still (most of the time) offer a way to kill them through vulnerabilities in their actives.

So in list format, we need things like these:

• Speed Nerfs - Tanks run away too easily, it's ridiculous
• One Hardener on a fit - imo, though I do not speak the views of everyone, two-three hardener setups are ridiculous, and if we ever get advanced/proto tanks with these it's just going to be sad
• Webifiers - EVE Desc. These things would slow tanks down to a crawl, perhaps Grenade and Mine format, allow Infantry to trigger mines (or both, I'm not your mother)
• Webifier Counters - The ability to counter a webifier mine/grenade, by activating a module that sends out a wave removing the one that hit you, long cooldowns of course.
• EMP Weaponry - Weaponry that increases cooldowns, or removes the active on at the time, or just decreases the duration left on the vehicle
• EMP shielding - more sacrifices allowing you to be immune/less affected by EMP weapons

Honestly there's a lot more we can think of if we put our heads together offering viable attacks and counters to make it fair for both parties, it increases diversity and makes the game a lot more enjoyable for all.

And before people say "CCP needs to add all these graphics and effects for this to work", you don't. For webifiers, you need a funky sound effect, and maybe something showing the vehicle slowing down, but EMPs just need flux like animations.

Again, this platform is wonderful, it's more interesting and more of a laugh, numbers don't mean **** in tank battles any more either, just timing and tactics. If anything else should be added for tanks, it should be more viability to assist one another through the use of modules that buff/debuff other vehicles.

Thank you for reading, if you read this far, for the TL;DR just read the list and then say something about it, I'll answer you back asap, that is if anyone actually interested in reading this -¼_-¼

This would be a decent argument if said hardener effect actually rendered at any useful range.

Message from Godin: Just because you don't use them, doesn't mean other people doesn't. And it's only the MLT one. Be a man and use a enhanced/complex one.

I can see them when I am in my suit from ranges where enemy suits don't even render so I doubt this is true.

i only use 1 hardener now. why use more? Lol. my 330 rep a sec tank is much more effective than 180 reps a sec with 2 hards. want to know why. because my tanks reps r insane. Bro. O_o

Because Shield Tankers are dirty little fucks. Talk to a tanker "Why you using only 1 hardener bro? you can use two" because it's a dirty tactic and isn't playing fair, at all, you're just kidding yourself if you think you're good because of it.

ambitter2daysin

I think the tank speed is an indication that we'll be getting webs in 1.8.

This would be a decent argument if said hardener effect actually rendered at any useful range.

Cheap unkillable militia tanks everywhere! Nothing that cost 70-80k should be so overpowered.

Message from Godin:

1: 10-15%speed or 20% acceleration nerf.

2: hardeners are fine. 2 hardener settups can't perma run it, and 3 has no repps. (Not sure if 3 can even perma run it)

No, but 2 cplx hardeners leave only a 14 second engagement window.

I like these ideas, the more ways to engage the better, it makes intel gathering worth it as appose to "look tank, switch to my AV Swarm fit, never heard of the guy, let's roll with a STD setup" it felt good to rebuild a flux swarm fit last night. I bought a few AUR PLCs to give them a try also.

I may run out of fitting room though if we get all new grenades and equipment, I've already reached my limit.

I would like to make this suggestion though. Though I do agree that I'm here to kill vehicles, not detour them. I was in a game the night before last one peaks where two tank took the high ground above C, one was a Rail, the socket was the one where the hack point was completely exposed from that vantage point. C was unhackable on our side but the team managed to deny it to the reds also. Manus peaks, 4 - 5 minutes into the game and C is still yellow 0.o.

Anyway I knew I wasn't going to kill these fools alone, but I swapped to AV anyway and suppressed them for half the game. When 3-1, dealt over 50k damage, was the reason we were able to capture that point, was sitting like 12th on the leader board. It was boring as **** , but needed to be done.

What would be a fair way to compensate me for that that would not be exploitable? If there is an argument to be made about infantry doing there job if they are causing tanks to disengage, then we should be compensated for it, because there are times when it is the strategically correct thing to do. Thoughts there?

Another thing you didn't touch on was price. I think tanks were too expensive before, but now they are ridiculously Cheap. So cheap that it really isn't worth going after. The thing I think tankers forget is that I didn't start the game in an AV fit, by going after them I am no longer supporting my team, hacking points, or shooting reds which is what I WANT to be doing. I would never consider driving all the way to a supply depot to change out fits for a single proto merc on the field. Knowing that I am removing upwards of 500k average ISK was worth it.

message from Godin: That's for shields. Can't believe I'm saying this, but nerf shield hardeners.

Sounds like what Dust needs to balance tanks... is less roads! Make the entire map hills and tanks will be GG'd.

... then again, it'll pwn the rest of us, Hills STILL try to eat me. :(

this is the kind of discussion i'm talking about. civil, full of interesting ideas, and useful. anyway i find myself liking pretty much all of your suggestions jason, except for the hardener one, i dislike arbitrary fitting restrictions, gives us less room to play around with (not like that's much right now with like 6-7 module types top). besides i don't really see the benefit to running more than 1 hardener on a fit, given stacking penalties and the way resists work i just don't think they're worth more than 1 slot. anyway getting a tad off topic there.

personally i'm finding the LP store to be a great way to save isk, by switching over to State XT-1's i've reduced my python fit's cost from 503K to 416K, i'm eager to see what other areas i can save isk in.

Thing is, it's not about running them at the same time, but when you can run them constantly without becoming vunerable, with two hardeners I'm pretty much unstoppable, with three you just have the extra one just in case, I mean I was running two with my rail (cos rail fights and rails being ridiculous) and activate them at the same time, there's a massive difference, before I'd be two shotted from a proto, now its taken 6 shots to lose my shields. by then I'm back in cover and regening.

It's just rather silly.