DUST Search - Tank vs AV: In my opinion.

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Commander Tzu wrote:

The main problem I have seen is lack of AV in FW and pub. I ran a ton of gallente and minmatar FW, about 15 games, and saw a whopping 4 people try to kill me with AV. Two when I was in an armor tank and two when I was in shield tanks. The first time in the armor tank I was in a madrugar with proto modules and they used standard swarms; very low threat level. The second time though, I got hit with proto swarms and dayum: about 2k damage off my 5k armor right away. Put my hardener on and got hit two more times, made it out with about 1300hp thanks to a brave building that sacrificed itself =(. With the shield tank, a different story. I saw the swarms coming this time, and hit my hardener and these proto swarms bounced off, I actually tried to run him over but he got pushed to the side of my tank and threw flux nades at me. Let me tell you, when you only have 3.3k shield hp fluxs hurt even with 60% dmg reduction. Proto av is still potent, it is just not as common. Now, maybe some things need to change but right now I think it's difficult to tell what changes are really needed, people are running around with rail rifles and combat rifles even when there are tanks right in front of them. If we had as many proto AV in matches now as we did before 1.7 none of these militia tanks would survive and then people would stop calling them in and go back to their suits, then the proto av can concentrate on the proto tanks and then we can see how this all works out.

There are many reasons for this, first every one wants to try out the new stff and gets used to it, secondly currently switching to AV is close to suicide for very little benefit. With all the new very powerfull rifles an AV guy is defenseless if you now count that the AV can at best repell a tank that he caught of food going AV is really not worth the risk anymore.

Third as soon as a shield tanker is on the field there is not much AV can do about we have NO Av weapon that is more effective vs Shields that is worth to mention. In theory you can flux a tank but lets be honest this is highl+¦y sutuational.

- You can't safely flux when blues are neaby in FW withou risking to get banned.
- Fluxing works best to unawre tnakers
- You need to get pretty close and even if you manage to get his shields damage he can mow you down and get away easily.

The worst part is even if you manage to force a tank to leave the field he will be back in nearly no time and your risk was in vain and you won't get any points.

With this amount of tanks AV is sadly rather pointless right now and tanks are lurking like sharks for easy infantry kills everywhere I know there are tankers that want to go after tannks but there are at least as much tankers that don't care for other tanks and just want cheap infantry kills :/

And now we have PROTO AV vs basic hulls, just imagine what wil happen once we get proto hulls...at we have to go through all this again.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 67	Posted - 2013.12.13 01:05:00 - [1] - Quote I propose we remove fuel injectors and give a 75% buff to the intelligence of AVers. Maybe have an air raid siren going off continuously while HAVs have their hardeners down? I don't think the glowing-hotter-than-the-sun hardener effect we have right now is really getting through to AVers that the tank has it's hardener on and has high resistance at the moment. P.S. I honestly mean the thing about fuel injectors, I never use the damn things anyway my tank is fast enough without it and it's bugged so its kinda a douche move right now.
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 67	Posted - 2013.12.13 01:27:00 - [2] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Commander Tzu wrote: I don't think the glowing-hotter-than-the-sun hardener effect we have right now is really getting through to AVers that the tank has it's hardener on and has high resistance at the moment. This would be a decent argument if said hardener effect actually rendered at any useful range. I can see them when I am in my suit from ranges where enemy suits don't even render so I doubt this is true.
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 67	Posted - 2013.12.13 01:32:00 - [3] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Commander Tzu wrote: I propose we remove fuel injectors and give a 75% buff to the intelligence of AVers. Maybe have an air raid siren going off continuously while HAVs have their hardeners down? I don't think the glowing-hotter-than-the-sun hardener effect we have right now is really getting through to AVers that the tank has it's hardener on and has high resistance at the moment. P.S. I honestly mean the thing about fuel injectors, I never use the damn things anyway my tank is fast enough without it and it's bugged so its kinda a douche move right now. Message from Godin: Just because you don't use them, doesn't mean other people doesn't. And it's only the MLT one. Be a man and use a enhanced/complex one. Oh, and where am I supposed to fit my frakkin' beef jerky machine?!
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 69	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:24:00 - [4] - Quote The main problem I have seen is lack of AV in FW and pub. I ran a ton of gallente and minmatar FW, about 15 games, and saw a whopping 4 people try to kill me with AV. Two when I was in an armor tank and two when I was in shield tanks. The first time in the armor tank I was in a madrugar with proto modules and they used standard swarms; very low threat level. The second time though, I got hit with proto swarms and dayum: about 2k damage off my 5k armor right away. Put my hardener on and got hit two more times, made it out with about 1300hp thanks to a brave building that sacrificed itself =(. With the shield tank, a different story. I saw the swarms coming this time, and hit my hardener and these proto swarms bounced off, I actually tried to run him over but he got pushed to the side of my tank and threw flux nades at me. Let me tell you, when you only have 3.3k shield hp fluxs hurt even with 60% dmg reduction. Proto av is still potent, it is just not as common. Now, maybe some things need to change but right now I think it's difficult to tell what changes are really needed, people are running around with rail rifles and combat rifles even when there are tanks right in front of them. If we had as many proto AV in matches now as we did before 1.7 none of these militia tanks would survive and then people would stop calling them in and go back to their suits, then the proto av can concentrate on the proto tanks and then we can see how this all works out.
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 72	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:41:00 - [5] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Commander Tzu wrote: The main problem I have seen is lack of AV in FW and pub. I ran a ton of gallente and minmatar FW, about 15 games, and saw a whopping 4 people try to kill me with AV. Two when I was in an armor tank and two when I was in shield tanks. The first time in the armor tank I was in a madrugar with proto modules and they used standard swarms; very low threat level. The second time though, I got hit with proto swarms and dayum: about 2k damage off my 5k armor right away. Put my hardener on and got hit two more times, made it out with about 1300hp thanks to a brave building that sacrificed itself =(. With the shield tank, a different story. I saw the swarms coming this time, and hit my hardener and these proto swarms bounced off, I actually tried to run him over but he got pushed to the side of my tank and threw flux nades at me. Let me tell you, when you only have 3.3k shield hp fluxs hurt even with 60% dmg reduction. Proto av is still potent, it is just not as common. Now, maybe some things need to change but right now I think it's difficult to tell what changes are really needed, people are running around with rail rifles and combat rifles even when there are tanks right in front of them. If we had as many proto AV in matches now as we did before 1.7 none of these militia tanks would survive and then people would stop calling them in and go back to their suits, then the proto av can concentrate on the proto tanks and then we can see how this all works out. There are many reasons for this, first every one wants to try out the new stff and gets used to it, secondly currently switching to AV is close to suicide for very little benefit. With all the new very powerfull rifles an AV guy is defenseless if you now count that the AV can at best repell a tank that he caught of food going AV is really not worth the risk anymore. Third as soon as a shield tanker is on the field there is not much AV can do about we have NO Av weapon that is more effective vs Shields that is worth to mention. In theory you can flux a tank but lets be honest this is highl+¦y sutuational. - You can't safely flux when blues are neaby in FW withou risking to get banned. - Fluxing works best to unawre tnakers - You need to get pretty close and even if you manage to get his shields damage he can mow you down and get away easily. The worst part is even if you manage to force a tank to leave the field he will be back in nearly no time and your risk was in vain and you won't get any points. With this amount of tanks AV is sadly rather pointless right now and tanks are lurking like sharks for easy infantry kills everywhere I know there are tankers that want to go after tannks but there are at least as much tankers that don't care for other tanks and just want cheap infantry kills :/ And now we have PROTO AV vs basic hulls, just imagine what wil happen once we get proto hulls...at we have to go through all this again. So you complain about rifles being so powerful you can't survive, and acknowledge the fact fewer people are going into AV, partly because of it. I fail to see how either of these are the fault of tank balancing, people have been saying do something about the time to kill forever now. And with fewer people running AV, there are fewer good AV players, AV isn't easymode anymore but anyone who says it can't do it's job is a trolling scrub. I'm sympathetic to the flux grenade problem of hitting blueberries in FW, maybe they should change the flux so when it comes close to an enemy vehicle it acts like an AV nade. As far as getting mowed down, what are you doing? I have been tanking a lot since 1.7 came out and as far as I can tell blasters still don't go through walls, so you could try, I dunno, taking cover and tossing flux nades over? And what to do about shield tanks? Forge guns. They can hit a shield tank before it can put it's hardeners up, and I can tell you from first hand experience good forge gunners can take 50% or more of a Gunnlogis shield. Sure my hardener gives a 60% damage resistance but when you only have 1300 shield left that 60% starts to feel a lot smaller. Right now if I fit all proto gear on my Madrugar I fit only the low slots because complex gear takes a lot of fitting. I could add two small turrets and some hi slot modules but then I would have to add PG and CPU, to the low slot where I keep my armor. Is it possible we will have to make some changes when proto hulls arrive? Sure. But hopefully by then AVers will have read the manuals that came with their weapons.
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 72	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:43:00 - [6] - Quote AV can have webs if HAVs can get drone bays =D