DUST Search - Intelligence is OP

Korvin Lomont wrote:

You know something is wrong when your most effective way to kill a tank is a LAV packed with remotes...while there are AV weapons in this game...

1. I don't argue the range nerf to swarms was ok for me the damage nerf was a bit too much but I guess this could change.

2. The PLC? Even most who use the PLC with great success admit its more an AI weapon than an AV weapon and horribly UP (but fun as hell to use)

3. currently even militia tanks shrugg of Proto Av and thats a bit problematic what will happen once advanced or proto hulls are available? (stupid concept to give proto AV but only std hulls)

4. Area of denial - I would agree that would be a solution but the problem is the AV guy don't get a reward for repelling a tank and currently tanks come back too fast so its either kill or nothing don't blame the AVler for that.

5. Invisible swarms is a bad thing and CCP should have solved this ages ago ;/

6. Teamwork - well shouldn't this be true for both sides? Why do tankers want AV to require Teamwork while wrecking havoc solo? Teamwork worked for tanks in 1.6 a Tank supported by Infantry was quite dangerous but I think its too much to ask for tankers to bring infantry with them, But wait now tankers say we should bring in tanks to stop tanks - This logic is amusing
7. Communication - see 6 apart from that sure

8. Traps see 6 - Why should I have to organise a trap when you can drive around in your tank uncontested - makes no sense

9. Forge you are right we have two (or three if you count the PLC as AV) AV weapons where only one is viable to counter Vehicles, so CCP should simply remove the swarms and refund the SP

10. regarding the nitro bug its the same with the invisible swarms and I don't expect any solution soon I know it's not the tankers fault but it is stupid, screwing balance and I expect this to last on for a while but maybe CCP will surprise me

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Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 872	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:33:00 - [31] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Wrong 500k is not cheaper than 200k how often do you want to point out that you have zero credibility... you do need not the best tank with proto mods to kill other tanks, you point is again null and void.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1896	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:33:00 - [32] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Wrong 500k is not cheaper than 200k So as opposed to answer the arguments given to you, you resort to nitpicking? Only the best HAVs cost 500k. Currently your average vehicle costs about 100-150k, which is cheaper than 200k. And 200k is way more expensive than 500k when you are guaranteed to die at least 4-5 times. And for less than 1/5 of the effort of AV, I can get a Sica that's better at AV than my Wirykomi SL, Allotek PLC, and IAFG combined. So tell me, why should people use AV again? DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 330	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:34:00 - [33] - Quote to 2) So we agree the PLC is UP and not very viable as AV weapon ^^ to 6) Its easy 1 person should be able to fight of 1 tank as long as 1 person is enough to have a tank fully operable and the teamsize is fixed. I admit AV was on the upper hand in 1.6 but not nearly as far as many tanker said. I had quite some challanging duels but I had easy kills as well. So in genral I am not against the rebalance its just the coin flipped from one side to the other and both is bad for the game. to 8) To have options is a good thing relieing on them a bad. to 9) I think the range nerf is ok and deserved but the damage nerf was a bit too much overall. I think most points are up to CCP as it is their game we can only provide feedback based on experience and personal opinions.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1479	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:34:00 - [34] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: try it in PC another proof of lack of credibility. PC aka photoslideshow 514, is definately the answer to everything When PC works it works 2 organized teams with proto everything going at each other, you soon see what comes to be FOTM and what is broken Then again you are D- UNI and are still training so i dont expect you to leave pub matches with broken matchmaking Can't say I didn't expect this from you. You can't balance vehicles and AV for a game mode that the majority of the playerbase doesn't participate in, nor could participate in if they wanted to. That's like balancing ARs around the Ambush gamemode Pubs isnt balanced because matchmaking isnt even working PC is competitve where its proto vs proto Pubs is proto vs milita where you cant balance But I'm sure he considers CCP using tanks in ambush stats as a legitimate metric for determining that tanks are OP. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1896	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:36:00 - [35] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Jack McReady wrote: not to mention a tank is cheaper than the proto AV suit required to even bother a tank. Wrong 500k is not cheaper than 200k And people laughed at Maths, MATHS TRIUMPHS ALL! Your right it does trump all. When the person doing the calculations actually passed kindergarden. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1885	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:36:00 - [36] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Wrong 500k is not cheaper than 200k how often do you want to point out that you have zero credibility... you do need not the best tank with proto mods to kill other tanks, you point is again null and void. Still wrong 500k Why would i use less? Im proto stomping in my HAV just like infantry does So learn to math
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1885	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:38:00 - [37] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: to 2) So we agree the PLC is UP and not very viable as AV weapon ^^ to 6) Its easy 1 person should be able to fight of 1 tank as long as 1 person is enough to have a tank fully operable and the teamsize is fixed. I admit AV was on the upper hand in 1.6 but not nearly as far as many tanker said. I had quite some challanging duels but I had easy kills as well. So in genral I am not against the rebalance its just the coin flipped from one side to the other and both is bad for the game. to 8) To have options is a good thing relieing on them a bad. to 9) I think the range nerf is ok and deserved but the damage nerf was a bit too much overall. I think most points are up to CCP as it is their game we can only provide feedback based on experience and personal opinions. PLC needs a buff 1 person can fight off my tank, its been done already to me this build, its the bad AV players who consistantly hit me at the wrong time and with the wrong AV and cry about it Its an option See how the damage plays out, speed is the overall factor in the current cases since they are that fast
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1896	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:39:00 - [38] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: ] Can't say I didn't expect this from you. You can't balance vehicles and AV for a game mode that the majority of the playerbase doesn't participate in, nor could participate in if they wanted to. That's like balancing ARs around the Ambush gamemode Pubs isnt balanced because matchmaking isnt even working PC is competitve where its proto vs proto Pubs is proto vs milita where you cant balance There is no matchmaking whatsoever in this game. (And no Scotty does not count) That still doesn't change the fact that you can't balance things based on PC, as not everyone plays the PC gamemode. What you can do is balance around all of the gamemodes though. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 877	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:40:00 - [39] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: to 2) So we agree the PLC is UP and not very viable as AV weapon ^^ to 6) Its easy 1 person should be able to fight of 1 tank as long as 1 person is enough to have a tank fully operable and the teamsize is fixed. I admit AV was on the upper hand in 1.6 but not nearly as far as many tanker said. I had quite some challanging duels but I had easy kills as well. So in genral I am not against the rebalance its just the coin flipped from one side to the other and both is bad for the game. to 8) To have options is a good thing relieing on them a bad. to 9) I think the range nerf is ok and deserved but the damage nerf was a bit too much overall. I think most points are up to CCP as it is their game we can only provide feedback based on experience and personal opinions. 1 person can fight off my tank, its been done already to me this build, its the bad AV players who consistantly hit me because you are a scrub with zero credibility as you have already nicely pointed out by yourself with your comments. no point in arguing with such a biased tunnelvision scrub. you can reply the same nonsense over and over like you did, it wont change anything. the nerf will come and I will collect your tears afterwards
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1479	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:40:00 - [40] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: ] Can't say I didn't expect this from you. You can't balance vehicles and AV for a game mode that the majority of the playerbase doesn't participate in, nor could participate in if they wanted to. That's like balancing ARs around the Ambush gamemode Pubs isnt balanced because matchmaking isnt even working PC is competitve where its proto vs proto Pubs is proto vs milita where you cant balance There is no matchmaking whatsoever in this game. (And no Scotty does not count) That still doesn't change the fact that you can't balance things based on PC, as not everyone plays the PC gamemode. What you can do is balance around all of the gamemodes though. CCP designed this with the hope of tons of people fighting on the ground in PC and FW. Why must everything go your way? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1896	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:41:00 - [41] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: But I'm sure he considers CCP using tanks in ambush stats as a legitimate metric for determining that tanks are OP. Nope. I wouldn't consider anything claimed to be OP credible when used in the Spambush gamemode. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1887	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:41:00 - [42] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: ] Can't say I didn't expect this from you. You can't balance vehicles and AV for a game mode that the majority of the playerbase doesn't participate in, nor could participate in if they wanted to. That's like balancing ARs around the Ambush gamemode Pubs isnt balanced because matchmaking isnt even working PC is competitve where its proto vs proto Pubs is proto vs milita where you cant balance There is no matchmaking whatsoever in this game. (And no Scotty does not count) That still doesn't change the fact that you can't balance things based on PC, as not everyone plays the PC gamemode. What you can do is balance around all of the gamemodes though. Only good matchmaking is in PC where you fight competant teams with mics/plans and the best gear Balancing in pubs is a bad idea because lolmilitia vs proto
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1479	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:41:00 - [43] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: to 2) So we agree the PLC is UP and not very viable as AV weapon ^^ to 6) Its easy 1 person should be able to fight of 1 tank as long as 1 person is enough to have a tank fully operable and the teamsize is fixed. I admit AV was on the upper hand in 1.6 but not nearly as far as many tanker said. I had quite some challanging duels but I had easy kills as well. So in genral I am not against the rebalance its just the coin flipped from one side to the other and both is bad for the game. to 8) To have options is a good thing relieing on them a bad. to 9) I think the range nerf is ok and deserved but the damage nerf was a bit too much overall. I think most points are up to CCP as it is their game we can only provide feedback based on experience and personal opinions. 1 person can fight off my tank, its been done already to me this build, its the bad AV players who consistantly hit me because you are a scrub with zero credibility as you have already nicely pointed out by yourself with your comments. no point in arguing with such a biased tunnelvision scrub. How does he have zero credibility? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1896	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:42:00 - [44] - Quote Actually, the OP is correct. Intellegence is OP, that's why AV was nerfed into uselessness. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 877	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:45:00 - [45] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: to 2) So we agree the PLC is UP and not very viable as AV weapon ^^ to 6) Its easy 1 person should be able to fight of 1 tank as long as 1 person is enough to have a tank fully operable and the teamsize is fixed. I admit AV was on the upper hand in 1.6 but not nearly as far as many tanker said. I had quite some challanging duels but I had easy kills as well. So in genral I am not against the rebalance its just the coin flipped from one side to the other and both is bad for the game. to 8) To have options is a good thing relieing on them a bad. to 9) I think the range nerf is ok and deserved but the damage nerf was a bit too much overall. I think most points are up to CCP as it is their game we can only provide feedback based on experience and personal opinions. 1 person can fight off my tank, its been done already to me this build, its the bad AV players who consistantly hit me because you are a scrub with zero credibility as you have already nicely pointed out by yourself with your comments. no point in arguing with such a biased tunnelvision scrub. How does he have zero credibility? he has zero credibility just like you. everyone can check it for free, all you have to do is to read the biased tunnelvision nonsense posted by your in the last 2 hours. you can all dodge the arguments and repeat nonsense over and over again but as said, intelligence is OP, no one with a brain listens to it.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1896	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:45:00 - [46] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Only good matchmaking is in PC where you fight competant teams with mics/plans and the best gear Balancing in pubs is a bad idea because lolmilitia vs proto Nope. Balance around PC is even worse because it assumes that everyone is always running Tier III or Tier IV gear. It also assumes that everyone is always squaded up, and constantly communicating. It also assumes that everyone is trying their hardest to succeed. Which is hardly the case in PUB matches. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1888	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:48:00 - [47] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Only good matchmaking is in PC where you fight competant teams with mics/plans and the best gear Balancing in pubs is a bad idea because lolmilitia vs proto Nope. Balance around PC is even worse because it assumes that everyone is always running Tier III or Tier IV gear. It also assumes that everyone is always squaded up, and constantly communicating. It also assumes that everyone is trying their hardest to succeed. Which is hardly the case in PUB matches. That is excatly why you balance for PC matches Pubs is full of idiots and a few groups vs idiots
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 331	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:53:00 - [48] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Only good matchmaking is in PC where you fight competant teams with mics/plans and the best gear Balancing in pubs is a bad idea because lolmilitia vs proto Nope. Balance around PC is even worse because it assumes that everyone is always running Tier III or Tier IV gear. It also assumes that everyone is always squaded up, and constantly communicating. It also assumes that everyone is trying their hardest to succeed. Which is hardly the case in PUB matches. That is excatly why you balance for PC matches Pubs is full of idiots and a few groups vs idiots ...so you balance the game based solely on the play of what, 5% of all Dust players that ever bother with PC? Gee, why isn't this game attracting more players? Life is killing me.
Stinker Butt Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 178	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:55:00 - [49] - Quote I just see another entitlement thread from a princess tanker who thinks he deserves to dominate because he's driving a tank. Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1.6 Any AV weapon bar the plasma cannon could ** a fully fitted tank in seconds Any tank could kill any infantry, lav, installation, or even another tank in seconds, but you want to try and convince us that someone who has equipped theirself for the specific cause of taking you down and then got the drop on you, shouldn't be allowed to do the same to you. I question your intelligence, but thank you for your post. It might help a noob or two. Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Wrong 500k is not cheaper than 200k If you have everything maxed out, then you may get up to 500k for a tank, but I doubt most people are spending that. last build my standard LAV+suit was over 400k, and if I ran with a proto turret, it was over 600k. So why do you think I shouldn't be able to solo a tank? You get to solo me and everyone else on the map? how the hell did tankers adapt to anything? They still pranced around pointing and clicking on everything in sight and then ran to the red zone and red line sniped when someone was shooting at them. They need to take off their skirts and fight, otherwise they have no room to b**. Tanks can still be solo'd, but it's mostly because there are so many stupid tankers out here now that don't know what they're doing. And then there are people like me who don't do anything but look for tanks to be at there weak point.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1835	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:56:00 - [50] - Quote A solid post Takahiro. As the author of the Swarm Launcher guide I support your message. Now if only I could get into a match that had some tanks in it so I could properly assess the current state of the Swarm Launcher and determine the best tactics under these new conditions.

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 190	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:02:00 - [51] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: chase rowland wrote: get smart like the tankers did. adapt or die like the tankers did. now you know how it was for tankers. also, I love how its always the same people complaining about tanks, makes it seem like theres more of them. So tell me again. How do you destroy a vehicle that you can't damage without it escaping. (Even without the lolnitous vehicles move too fast for AV). AV is still good, you have to use it to its advantages now and not just spam it Also if you cant tell if hardeners are on then you need your eyes tested I seen a tank take two swarmer's and a forge gunner on ... just sitting there eating damage like a buffet full on a Sunday morning for breakfast . I mean just sitting there with no damage ( to it's armor ) resulting after multiple swarms and forge blasts . I use to use armor and shield hard making in 1.6 and NEVER could ANYONE and I mean ANYONE just sit there and take such damage with NO damage resulting . I wish I could have recorded that just to show that : there is a problem and something needs to be done . I use to run two armor hard makers on my Madrugar and it never was anywhere near that type of effect . Now if you place two on a tank you CAN NOT destroy it . NO CHANCE !!! That should NOT be the case because that just negates anti-vehicle and if it's useless then they need to refund the SP's and just get it over with instead of having this flood and waves of people stating the obvious . I mean just seeing that made me want to stop playing like I have seen some of these people who do so do . I'm taking this weekend and I'm going game shopping because this is just ridiculous and I was a tank driver in 1.6 and use to make threads about how weak the tanks were then and now this just seems like an attempt to mock those who did so . There is something wrong with that and these are MLT and STD tanks so just think about when the Proto's come along . Think it's bad now ??? " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
ReGnYuM Imperfects 1481	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:05:00 - [52] - Quote Man I just love the tanker mentality: The infantry just... don't... understand If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514. KDR>ALL Sig Move: Minmatar Crub Stomp
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 190	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:07:00 - [53] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: A solid post Takahiro. As the author of the Swarm Launcher guide I support your message. Now if only I could get into a match that had some tanks in it so I could properly assess the current state of the Swarm Launcher and determine the best tactics under these new conditions. Seen your work and your in for a treat when you do so . How can you call the post solid and you haven't even experienced what everyone is talking about ???? These are your OWN words . I cant wait and see what your results will be and I will keep an eye out for that . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 331	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:08:00 - [54] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: its the bad AV players who consistantly hit me at the wrong time and with the wrong AV and cry about it Its an option See how the damage plays out, speed is the overall factor in the current cases since they are that fast This is where CCP really f'd over those of us that have proto SLs. 1. Range--I wouldn't mind the reduction to damage if it wasn't coupled with the fact that SL range has been excessively reduced. Hopefully this is CCP's starting point for giving us variety in SLs that offer weaker swarms with longer ranges vs. more powerful swarms with reduced range. This leads to 2. Speed--even without the nitro bug, how difficult is it going to be for a tank to escape the 175 yard lock-on range of swarms now? You're looking at maybe two or three volleys that can be fired before you escape...but combined with the nerf to SL damage, 2 or 3 volleys shouldn't worry anyone, particularly when 3. Hardeners--an active hardener scoffs at anything infantry can throw at it, aside from a heavy-duty FG. In essence, to utilize my SL I now have to run into the thick of battle (assuming that tanks aren't wandering around in the wilderness,) wait for the tank to let down it's hardeners and pray that the driver magically forgets where the gas pedal is as soon as the first volley hits; otherwise, I then have to either chase him down (please note the difference in speeds) or else learn how to dodge bullets while waiting for the tank to come back into range. Honestly, CCP just needed to make small tweaks to SL damage and lower the cost of militia tanks (and fix the invisible swarms) and things would have been alright. Life is killing me.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1889	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:08:00 - [55] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: A solid post Takahiro. As the author of the Swarm Launcher guide I support your message. Now if only I could get into a match that had some tanks in it so I could properly assess the current state of the Swarm Launcher and determine the best tactics under these new conditions. Best waiting till the speed bug is fixed tbh
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4141	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:10:00 - [56] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 2. Swarms - Everyone has swarms due to how OP they were last build, now pilots can see the missles and also the user and with the range nerf we can speed away from you, also swarms deal explosive damage best for using against madrugars and not shield tanks unless they are not shiny That "range nerf" is only for lock range. If I get a lock and fire while you're trying to back off, my missiles can travel just as far as they always did.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 663	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:18:00 - [57] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: A solid post Takahiro. As the author of the Swarm Launcher guide I support your message. Now if only I could get into a match that had some tanks in it so I could properly assess the current state of the Swarm Launcher and determine the best tactics under these new conditions. How on earth have you not been in a match with tanks in it yet? I've yet to be in one that didn't have at least 2. Hell, I was in oceania last night trying to practice flying a derpship and there were tanks in those battles too! (pretty hilarious, they were jumping of mountains and all sorts of silliness with their nitro) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Echo 1991 Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 12	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:18:00 - [58] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: A solid post Takahiro. As the author of the Swarm Launcher guide I support your message. Now if only I could get into a match that had some tanks in it so I could properly assess the current state of the Swarm Launcher and determine the best tactics under these new conditions. The swarm launcher works fine, the problem is that tanks can take so much damage when their hardener is active and then when it has run out can drive off with its nitrous and not have a care in the world.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4141	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:26:00 - [59] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Wrong 500k is not cheaper than 200k If you have everything maxed out, then you may get up to 500k for a tank, but I doubt most people are spending that. last build my standard LAV+suit was over 400k, and if I ran with a proto turret, it was over 600k. So why do you think I shouldn't be able to solo a tank? You get to solo me and everyone else on the map? So you're saying that because you paid more than 500k LAST BUILD, you should be able to beat someone with a fitting that costs 500k after MASSIVE redesign. Your LAV and suit almost certainly cost less now than they did last build, go look up the ACTUAL value before trying to compare. And with an all-Militia loadout on a Gunnlogi, I'm sitting at about 150k ISK. Running a mix of Standard and Advanced modules, it's hovering around the 300k mark. I don't think 500k is unreasonable. I do, however, think 500k is unreasonable for your LAV, and you're forgetting that I wear a Dropsuit inside my tank as well. Quote: how the hell did tankers adapt to anything? They still pranced around pointing and clicking on everything in sight and then ran to the red zone and red line sniped when someone was shooting at them. They need to take off their skirts and fight, otherwise they have no room to b**. Just because there were a lot of stupid "tankers" who camped in the redline, doesn't mean all tankers did that. Just like not all infantry players camp behind the redline and only get kills with their Sniper Rifle when their team is being spawn-camped. Sure, there ARE a few players like that, but there are plenty more who actually play the game. Quote:** Tanks can still be solo'd, but it's mostly because there are so many stupid tankers out here now that don't know what they're doing. And then there are people like me who don't do anything but look for tanks to be at there weak point. A good tanker can be soloed if you catch them at the right time, or if you're better at AV, or if they make a mistake. A mistake doesn't necessarily prove that the tanker is stupid or even that they're a bad tanker. It just means they made a mistake. If a tanker makes a lot of mistakes, they're probably a bad tanker. If they make the same mistake repeatedly, then they're probably a stupid tanker. But a once-off encounter doesn't prove much.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1835	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:50:00 - [60] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: You know something is wrong when your most effective way to kill a tank is a LAV packed with remotes...while there are AV weapons in this game... 1. I don't argue the range nerf to swarms was ok for me the damage nerf was a bit too much but I guess this could change. 2. The PLC? Even most who use the PLC with great success admit its more an AI weapon than an AV weapon and horribly UP (but fun as hell to use) 3. currently even militia tanks shrugg of Proto Av and thats a bit problematic what will happen once advanced or proto hulls are available? (stupid concept to give proto AV but only std hulls) 4. Area of denial - I would agree that would be a solution but the problem is the AV guy don't get a reward for repelling a tank and currently tanks come back too fast so its either kill or nothing don't blame the AVler for that. 5. Invisible swarms is a bad thing and CCP should have solved this ages ago ;/ 6. Teamwork - well shouldn't this be true for both sides? Why do tankers want AV to require Teamwork while wrecking havoc solo? Teamwork worked for tanks in 1.6 a Tank supported by Infantry was quite dangerous but I think its too much to ask for tankers to bring infantry with them, But wait now tankers say we should bring in tanks to stop tanks - This logic is amusing 7. Communication - see 6 apart from that sure 8. Traps see 6 - Why should I have to organise a trap when you can drive around in your tank uncontested - makes no sense 9. Forge you are right we have two (or three if you count the PLC as AV) AV weapons where only one is viable to counter Vehicles, so CCP should simply remove the swarms and refund the SP 10. regarding the nitro bug its the same with the invisible swarms and I don't expect any solution soon I know it's not the tankers fault but it is stupid, screwing balance and I expect this to last on for a while but maybe CCP will surprise me Good to see a reasoned response on the AV side of the argument. On point 4, I have been pushing for AV getting WP for damage against vehicles. Maybe 10 wp for 1000 damage to a single vehicle. I get the sense that Swarm damage was a bit over nerfed. Maybe it should be at 250 per missel rather than 220, which would still be a big drop from the 330 we had, but I wonGÇÖt really be able to say for sure until I am able to do a lot more testing.



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